Guest guest Posted April 27, 2002 Report Share Posted April 27, 2002 At 12:42 PM 4/27/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Has anybody had any luck with the NT recipe for small beer? So far all >I've been able to produce with it has been undrinkable swill. > > >AP We used to make a lot of beer before discovering we couldn't tolerate barley. I'm interested in trying " small beer " -- according to the historical sites, it was typically made with molasses only. Making beer and having it turn out good was always more work for us than NT makes it sound, and we did have bad batches that smelled horrid. Anyway, here is a detailed description of one " beirmeisters " take on " small beer " (including Washington's recipe!). http://www2.homebrew.com/articles/article06240001.html If you don't bottle beer with a real tight cap, you never get the bubbles. And IMHO, if you don't have the bubbles, it doesn't taste like beer (even our best beers tasted awful if they were flat!). Heidi Schuppenhauer Trillium Custom Software Inc. heidis@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 Heidi Schuppenhauer wrote: > > We used to make a lot of beer before discovering we couldn't tolerate > barley. I'm interested in trying " small beer " -- according to the > historical sites, it was typically made with molasses only. I've seen a number of recipes for " small beer " , and all of them are different from Sally's. And they usually call for molasses with some kind of grain adjunct. > Making beer and > having it turn out good was always more work for us than NT makes it sound, > and we did have bad batches that smelled horrid. Sally's recipe has gotten me back into home brewing after a 20 year hiatus. And yes, so far all of the beer I've brewed has been more work than described in NT. And required a lot more time. Sally recomends a fermentation time of 4 days. If I bottled it at 4 days I'd have bottle bombs on my hands. From my experience it takes at least 8 days, and up to 14 days to ferment out. > Anyway, here is a detailed > description of one " beirmeisters " take on " small beer " (including > Washington's recipe!). > > http://www2.homebrew.com/articles/article06240001.html I saw this one. I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but soon. > If you don't bottle beer with a real tight cap, you never get the bubbles. > And IMHO, if you don't have the bubbles, it doesn't taste like beer (even > our best beers tasted awful if they were flat!). I use Grolsch swingtop bottles. They get a tight seal every time, and you don't have any caps to throw away. One interesting thing I've found, and intend to try as soon as I can get the equipment together to do an all grain batch is an ale recipe from an England, circa 1577 or so. I'll post it if you're interested, but it's written in middle english, and it's long. It was written by son, and that man could _ramble_. Fortunately, I also have a translation, and a recipe for a 5 gallon batch. AP -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.com Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 I'd be interested in some of your beer recipes! Shari ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan S. Petrillo Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 1:44 AM Subject: Re: small beer Heidi Schuppenhauer wrote: > > We used to make a lot of beer before discovering we couldn't tolerate > barley. I'm interested in trying " small beer " -- according to the > historical sites, it was typically made with molasses only. I've seen a number of recipes for " small beer " , and all of them are different from Sally's. And they usually call for molasses with some kind of grain adjunct. > Making beer and > having it turn out good was always more work for us than NT makes it sound, > and we did have bad batches that smelled horrid. Sally's recipe has gotten me back into home brewing after a 20 year hiatus. And yes, so far all of the beer I've brewed has been more work than described in NT. And required a lot more time. Sally recomends a fermentation time of 4 days. If I bottled it at 4 days I'd have bottle bombs on my hands. From my experience it takes at least 8 days, and up to 14 days to ferment out. > Anyway, here is a detailed > description of one " beirmeisters " take on " small beer " (including > Washington's recipe!). > > http://www2.homebrew.com/articles/article06240001.html I saw this one. I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but soon. > If you don't bottle beer with a real tight cap, you never get the bubbles. > And IMHO, if you don't have the bubbles, it doesn't taste like beer (even > our best beers tasted awful if they were flat!). I use Grolsch swingtop bottles. They get a tight seal every time, and you don't have any caps to throw away. One interesting thing I've found, and intend to try as soon as I can get the equipment together to do an all grain batch is an ale recipe from an England, circa 1577 or so. I'll post it if you're interested, but it's written in middle english, and it's long. It was written by son, and that man could _ramble_. Fortunately, I also have a translation, and a recipe for a 5 gallon batch. AP -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.com Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 Charlie Papazan's books (The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing) are a good source for learning to brew beer. Beer yeast is used, there are different strains depending on what you are brewing, ale, lager etc. I've brewed a lot of beer, and if your utensils and carboys are not sterile then you end up with foul tasting stuff. The only way to make truly carbonated beer without exploding bottles is to use an exact recipes and have tools such as a hydrometer, fermentation lock and more. Beer yeast differs greatly from commercial bread yeast, for example you can get live liquid yeasts that actually originated in various trappist monastery breweries in Belgium. The yeast makes a huge difference is the finished product, as anyone who as ever has a delicious cloudy German halfweiss can attest to. Here's a great homebrew recipe website http://realbeer.com/spencer/cats-meow/top_page.html I'm sure " small beers " can be brewed to some satisfaction but probably should be consumed more quickly and they would be rather flat. All this talk of beer has put me in the mood to brew a nourishing stout. Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 saral wrote: > > Charlie Papazan's books (The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing) are a good source for > learning to brew beer. Don't worry, relax, have a homebrew! :-) > Beer yeast is used, there are different strains depending on what you are brewing, ale, lager etc. There is literally a different strain of yeast for every brewer who brews beer, and probably more than that. > I've brewed a lot of beer, and if your utensils and carboys are not sterile then > you end up with foul tasting stuff. This is true. Back when I was a teenager learning how to brew the stuff I wasn't real good at aseptic technique, and produced some really nasty stuff. Not just sour, like Belgian beers, but putrid smelling, and not anything I'd get anywhere near my tastebuds. > The only way to make truly carbonated beer without exploding bottles is to use an > exact recipes and have tools such as a hydrometer, fermentation lock and more. Of those I'd say the exact recipes and fermentation lock are the most important. I didn't have a hydrometer until recently. If you can't get a fermentation lock then making one is easy enough. Back in the bad old days when I couldn't buy plastic ones for 89 cents I made my own out of glass tubing and test tubes. > Beer yeast differs greatly from commercial bread yeast, for example you can get > live liquid yeasts that actually originated in various trappist monastery breweries > in Belgium. There are in fact several commercial yeast suppliers that can get you pretty much any strain of yeast you need, thousands, literally thousands of strains. > The yeast makes a huge difference is the finished product, as anyone who as ever > has a delicious cloudy German halfweiss can attest to. And a nice hefeweizen too. All those banana and clove notes. Yum! > Here's a great homebrew recipe website http://realbeer.com/spencer/cats-meow/top_page.html The recipes here are outstanding. So many recipes, so little time! I particularly want to check out the section on meads. > I'm sure " small beers " can be brewed to some satisfaction but probably should be > consumed more quickly and they would be rather flat. Perhaps. It'll take some experimentation, but then that's part of the fun. > All this talk of beer has put me in the mood to brew a nourishing stout. Me too, but I already have a nice red ale in the 'fridge, and a porter with 4 days in the bottle. If I brew anything else just yet SWMBO will strangle me. Alan -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.com Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2002 Report Share Posted April 29, 2002 > Charlie Papazan's books (The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing) > are a good source for learning to... Just in case anyone wants to look up this book or any of his others, the name is spelled Charlie Papazian (note the i in the last name). Happy brewing! I too can attest to these books. I've even managed to get pretty experimental! My last effort is still happily aging and improving from about 18 months ago. It's a strange hopless brew of honey, barley malt, apple cider and spruce essence brewed with a double pitching of yeast using an american ale yeast and a mead yeast. It wound up fermenting out to between 14%-15% alc (yes, 30 proof!!). I didn't think it was possible myself, but the potential alcohol started as 15% and dropped to a little under one...although it took about 11 months to finally stop bubbling completely. It's definitely a twelve ounce bottle to be shared with friends... ;-) I've tried drinking them by myself, and one bottle pretty much sends me to bed; so I only break it out if somebody is over to split the bottle with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2002 Report Share Posted May 2, 2002 Kroyer wrote: > > > Charlie Papazan's books (The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing) > > are a good source for learning to... > [snip] > My last effort is still happily aging and improving from > about 18 months ago. It's a strange hopless brew of honey, barley malt, > apple cider and spruce essence brewed with a double pitching of yeast using > an american ale yeast and a mead yeast. Got a recipe? That sound like something interesting to try! > It wound up fermenting out to > between 14%-15% alc (yes, 30 proof!!). Yikes! I know dry champagne yeast can get that high, but I didn't think anything else could. > I didn't think it was possible > myself, but the potential alcohol started as 15% and dropped to a little > under one...although it took about 11 months to finally stop bubbling > completely. I have a small batch of cyser going, 1 gal apple juice, 1 pound honey, red star champagne yeast, that is still pushing two bubbles a minute through the lock after nearly two months. If this one turns out good the next one is going to be a lot larger! > It's definitely a twelve ounce bottle to be shared with > friends... ;-) I've tried drinking them by myself, and one bottle pretty > much sends me to bed; Sounds like it's time to find some of those little 7 oz. bottles that some of the specialty beers come in. > so I only break it out if somebody is over to split > the bottle with! Where did you say you are? ;-) AP -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.com Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2002 Report Share Posted May 6, 2002 > Got a recipe? That sound like something interesting to try! Sadly no. I was really just screwing around when I made it, so I didn't really even measure anything. > Yikes! I know dry champagne yeast can get that high, but I didn't think > anything else could. I credit the fact that I used two different types of yeast and was very very patient (read: lazy procrastinator). It stopped showing any signs of fermentation for 2-3 weeks, at least three separate times in the 10-11 months that it was brewing. Each time it eventually re-started itself. I think those pause-and-restarts were the yeast reaching their limit of alcohol; I think I waited long enough each time that the diverse yeast population (I did pitch two kinds after all) was able to grow its population of alcohol resistant organisms and continue on. > Sounds like it's time to find some of those little 7 oz. bottles that > some of the specialty beers come in. Sounds dangerous to me. I don't really want it to be that easy to dip into! ;-) > Where did you say you are? ;-) Minneapolis...when will you be over? My next effort is likely to be sake from scratch. After that, my next experiment is likely to be a gluten-free beer analog using various gluten-free grains (millet, teff, buckwheat, rice, sorghum, corn), aspergillus oryzae fungus (to replace the malt's starch conversion capabilities), yeast and hops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2002 Report Share Posted May 6, 2002 Kroyer wrote: > > > Got a recipe? That sound like something interesting to try! > > Sadly no. I was really just screwing around when I made it, so I didn't > really even measure anything. Aw, darn! Not even estimated amounts? I've never used spruce essence before, so how much did you use? > > Yikes! I know dry champagne yeast can get that high, but I didn't think > > anything else could. > > I credit the fact that I used two different types of yeast and was very very > patient (read: lazy procrastinator). It stopped showing any signs of > fermentation for 2-3 weeks, at least three separate times in the 10-11 > months that it was brewing. Each time it eventually re-started itself. I > think those pause-and-restarts were the yeast reaching their limit of > alcohol; I think I waited long enough each time that the diverse yeast > population (I did pitch two kinds after all) was able to grow its population > of alcohol resistant organisms and continue on. Could be. > > Sounds like it's time to find some of those little 7 oz. bottles that > > some of the specialty beers come in. > > Sounds dangerous to me. I don't really want it to be that easy to dip into! > ;-) Indeed! > > Where did you say you are? ;-) > > Minneapolis...when will you be over? As soon as I can afford the airplane to fly up there from Tampa Bay, FL. :-( Hey, maybe when my beer or cyser is finished we can work out a swap? > My next effort is likely to be sake from scratch. After that, my next > experiment is likely to be a gluten-free beer analog using various > gluten-free grains (millet, teff, buckwheat, rice, sorghum, corn), > aspergillus oryzae fungus (to replace the malt's starch conversion > capabilities), yeast and hops. Actually, there's a thread about malting corn and such going on rec.crafts.brewing right now. I suspect using the aspergillus to convert the starches would impart a flavor like dirt, but I could be wrong about that. It'd be interesting to try, anyway. Worst case you could always feed the batch to your plants if it turns out too bad. And check out http://www.glutenfreebrewer.com/ AP -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.com Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2002 Report Share Posted May 7, 2002 > Aw, darn! Not even estimated amounts? I've never used spruce essence > before, so how much did you use? I made this stuff about two years ago. At the time I could have estimated the amounts, but now...well I guess I can estimate them but it will be relatively wild estimates: 4 gals cider 1/2 gal malt extract (I don't remember which kind I used either...just that it was medium-dark all barley malt) 1-2 pints honey American Ale yeast Mead Yeast I briefly boiled half the cider and added the malt and honey. I poured the hot cider mixture together with the unheated cider, let it cool and pitched both pouches (smack-style pouches) of yeast. I might have added a bit of yeast nutrients too, since I remember being concerned about the ferment arresting early for lack of nutrients relative to sugar...often a problem with meads from what I understand. As for the spruce essence, I really don't remember how much I used. I know that I used a little too much though. Luckily, it continues to mellow as it ages, but I still think it would be much better with a much more understated spruce flavor. Have you tried any of the Legends Limited ales? They have a pine ale that might not be a bad idea to use as the model to shoot for. Their heather ale is really good too...better than the pine ale actually. They apparently just added a seaweed ale too...called Kelpie Ale apparently. Their website is: http://www.legendslimited.com/ > Hey, maybe when my beer or cyser is finished we can work out a swap? Sounds good! Let me know when it's ready! > I suspect using the aspergillus to convert the starches would impart a > flavor like dirt, but I could be wrong about that. It'd be interesting > to try, anyway. Worst case you could always feed the batch to your > plants if it turns out too bad. That's what the rice for traditional sake is converted with. I don't think that tastes like dirt... I'll grant that it's not as malty, but I think part of that is because the rice for sake has virtually everything polished away except the purest starch at the center of the grain. > And check out > http://www.glutenfreebrewer.com/ I did. Hopefully there'll be more to the site soon...? It's pretty sparse right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2002 Report Share Posted May 7, 2002 - >I might have added a bit of >yeast nutrients too, since I remember being concerned about the ferment >arresting early for lack of nutrients relative to sugar...often a problem >with meads from what I understand. Hmm, doesn't this seem to suggest that honey isn't such a great food, then? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2002 Report Share Posted May 7, 2002 > >I might have added a bit of > >yeast nutrients too, since I remember being concerned about the ferment > >arresting early for lack of nutrients relative to sugar...often a problem > >with meads from what I understand. > > Hmm, doesn't this seem to suggest that honey isn't such a great food, then? Relative to barley malt and for the purpose of feeding yeastie beasties, it isn't a particularly great food. However, it wouldn't suggest that to me when considering human nutrition...and certainly not when considering bee nutrition. If we consider foods that aren't complete in and of themselves poor, then coconut oil, butter and kelp would all be abysmal foods since none of them is capable of sustaining us on their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2002 Report Share Posted May 13, 2002 Kroyer wrote: > > > Aw, darn! Not even estimated amounts? I've never used spruce essence > > before, so how much did you use? > > I made this stuff about two years ago. At the time I could have estimated > the amounts, but now...well I guess I can estimate them but it will be > relatively wild estimates: > > 4 gals cider > 1/2 gal malt extract (I don't remember which kind I used either...just that > it was medium-dark all barley malt) > 1-2 pints honey > American Ale yeast > Mead Yeast That sounds like a good starting point. I have about half a gallon of light malt extract sitting around. 2 pints of honey would be around 3 pounds, give or take, which I also have sitting around. Organic apple juice (alas, pasteurized) I can get for around $4/gallon at the LHFS. I have some Red Star Champagne Yeast from the lees of a batch of hard cider, which is known for its high attenuation. And I can consult Papazian for estimated amounts of spruce extract. Hmm... This is sounding doable. With all that sugar in there I bet the fermentation lock will be making that " motor boat " sound for a while. > Have you tried any of the Legends Limited ales? They have a > pine ale that might not be a bad idea to use as the model to shoot for. > Their heather ale is really good too...better than the pine ale actually. > They apparently just added a seaweed ale too...called Kelpie Ale apparently. > Their website is: > http://www.legendslimited.com/ Cool, I'll look them up. I'll see if my local beer store carries them. They cary a bunch of other stuff, including 3 different brands of Lambic. My favorite so far is Lindemann's. One of these days when I get good enough I'm going to try to do a pLambic. Lambic is truly a style of beer completely unto itself, and has developed a whole subculture in the homebrewing community. > > Hey, maybe when my beer or cyser is finished we can work out a swap? > > Sounds good! Let me know when it's ready! Will do! > > I suspect using the aspergillus to convert the starches would impart a > > flavor like dirt, but I could be wrong about that. It'd be interesting > > to try, anyway. Worst case you could always feed the batch to your > > plants if it turns out too bad. > > That's what the rice for traditional sake is converted with. Really? Hmm... Shows you how much I know about sake. > I don't think > that tastes like dirt... You're right, it doesn't. > I'll grant that it's not as malty, but I think > part of that is because the rice for sake has virtually everything polished > away except the purest starch at the center of the grain. Indeed. And it doesn't have all of those other chemicals created by the sprouting process. > > And check out > > http://www.glutenfreebrewer.com/ > > I did. Hopefully there'll be more to the site soon...? It's pretty sparse > right now... Yeah, it's a work in progress. The owner of it, I don't remember his name, has been doing some interesting posting on rec.crafts.brewing about malting corn. Give them a look. Come to think of it, a perusal through the r.c.b archives with DejaNews would probably be productive as well. AP -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.com Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.