Re: Urgent - Organic Pastures Milk in N. CA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/28/2002 7:46:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

me@... writes:

<< Now

>that I look closer at it, I see it isn't raw milk, but raw cram,

>according to the bottle cap. At that price, you can bet i won't be

>buying anymore of it, in fact, had I realized it was cream instead of

>milk i would have passed. I got too excited with the word 'raw'. >>

Hey! I thought it was illegal to sell raw cream and butter in Cali. That's

what someone from Henry's and Whole Foods told me just recently. Can any

Southern Californian's verify this.

Also, someone on this list gave me a connection for an individual that

went to farms in Southern California that were willing to sell raw milk. If

you are still on here can you email me privately. It was about a year ago.

I need that contact again very desperately. Thanks a bunch

Kareemah

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 05:43:51 -0000, you wrote:

>Hi Folks,

>

>After much anticipation, Organic Pastures milk is now going to be

>distributed in Northern California, through Clover Stornetta.

Thanks for the heads up!

i found " Claravale Farms " Grade A Raw from ville at the san

Whole Foods. It cost $6.95 for what I believe to be a pint. Now

that I look closer at it, I see it isn't raw milk, but raw cram,

according to the bottle cap. At that price, you can bet i won't be

buying anymore of it, in fact, had I realized it was cream instead of

milk i would have passed. I got too excited with the word 'raw'.

Clover-Stornetta has a web site

http://www.clo-the-cow.com/index.html

I haven't taken the time to look over the site completely yet, but

they brag about how good the regular 'organic' milk is.

If you go to the site, be sure to check out their award winning

billboards, some of the best in the nation.

Mike

PS, when i did a search for Claravale Farms, this turned up

http://www.organiclifestyle.net/Raw%20Milk%20Report.html

The very last paragraph should be encouraging to some.

[Guest guest]

At 01:26 PM 4/28/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 05:43:51 -0000, you wrote:

>

>

>i found " Claravale Farms " Grade A Raw from ville at the san

> Whole Foods. It cost $6.95 for what I believe to be a pint. Now

>that I look closer at it, I see it isn't raw milk, but raw cram,

>according to the bottle cap. At that price, you can bet i won't be

>buying anymore of it, in fact, had I realized it was cream instead of

>milk i would have passed. I got too excited with the word 'raw'.

Everything at Whole Foods is WAY OVER PRICED. Anyone new to buying organic

would make one trip to Whole Foods and think: " I can't afford this. I am

going back to Mcs. " No wonder Whole Foods in San Diego is located in

the Yuppie DINK capital of the city. I don't think I have ever see anyone

in there with a kid.

[Guest guest]

At 11:54 AM 4/28/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Hey! I thought it was illegal to sell raw cream and butter in Cali. That's

>what someone from Henry's and Whole Foods told me just recently. Can any

>Southern Californian's verify this.

I have seen raw milk at Whole Foods and Ocean Beach Peoples Food Co-op, and

raw cheese. I have never seen raw cream or butter. I would be interested

in raw butter, raw cream or yogurt made from raw milk.

Also at Ocean Beach Peoples I have seen various types of raw cheese but

can't find raw mozzarella . My favorite cheese. Has anyone seen raw

mozzarella in the San Diego area?

Also, someone on this list gave me a connection for an individual that

>went to farms in Southern California that were willing to sell raw milk. If

>you are still on here can you email me privately. It was about a year ago.

>I need that contact again very desperately. Thanks a bunch

I once bought an imported raw cheese at Henry's, but I have never seen raw

milk there. am interested in raw milk source in the San Diego area. What

Henrys has it? I haven't seen raw milk at Henry's in years, way back when

they were Boney's

[Guest guest]

>

> >Hey! I thought it was illegal to sell raw cream and butter in

Cali. That's

> >what someone from Henry's and Whole Foods told me just

recently. Can any

> >Southern Californian's verify this.

No, they lied to you, it is not illegal to sell raw cream and butter in

CA, if it's from an inspected, certified dairy. Claravale sells a

small amount of raw cream, both from the dairy and through

stores, but it's very expensive (as mentioned, close to $7/pint in

stores). No one is yet selling raw butter through retail outlets in

CA, but it's not illegal. I hope it's true that Organic Pastures will

soon be selling some. There are only 2 certified raw dairies in

CA, Claravale and Organic Pastures.

> I have seen raw milk at Whole Foods and Ocean Beach

Peoples Food Co-op, and

> raw cheese. I have never seen raw cream or butter. I would be

interested

> in raw butter, raw cream or yogurt made from raw milk.

You probably won't ever find raw " yogurt " in stores, because I

believe the technical, legal definition of yogurt is that it's heated

to around 180 degrees F before the culture is added so that it's

only the yogurt culture active and not what's native to the milk. I

know some people make yogurt with raw milk at home, but I

don't think the FDA, USDA or state, whichever would have

jurisdiction over food definitions, would allow a raw " yogurt " . For

that matter, I don't think they'll allow any cultured, unaged, raw

milk product, because of the microbe-phobia governing the food

regulations. In their view, the culturing process of keeping it at a

warm temp and allowing the bacteria to proliferate is asking for

trouble. That's false, of course, if the conditions are sanitary and

the milk clean, but the truth is not what they're concerned about.

> Also at Ocean Beach Peoples I have seen various types of raw

cheese but

> can't find raw mozzarella . My favorite cheese. Has anyone

seen raw

> mozzarella in the San Diego area?

I don't think raw mozzarella is legal. Raw, fresh milk (and cream

and butter) are legal if produced within the state by a certified raw

dairy, and raw *aged for more than 60 days* cheeses are legal

and can be shipped interstate (and internationally), but *unaged*

raw cheeses are not legal. I think it has something to do with the

fact that the aging process, after 60 days, would reveal any

contamination by " bad " bacteria. Maybe someone who makes

raw aged cheese can clarify, I don't know the technical aspects.

So, in CA, you can get fresh raw, or aged past 60 days raw, but

nothing in between. This applies to mozzarella because it's not

aged.

If anyone in CA wants raw milk available to them in stores, by all

means, talk to the managers of the stores, and ask them to get

either Claravale or Organic Pastures. If Clover Stornetta is going

to distribute OP, that should make it much more available and

easier for the stores to carry. If they don't know you want it, they

won't get it.

Aubin

[Guest guest]

Hello:

You can get Raw milk by Organic Pastures at the Henry's in La Mesa and

thanks to my family harassing the people there ( not really) )) you can

get it at the one in Lemon Grove also. I think there are maybe 1 or two more

that have it, but I'm not sure which ones.

Kareemah

[Guest guest]

At 06:33 PM 4/28/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>-

>I don't think raw mozzarella is legal. Raw, fresh milk (and cream

>and butter) are legal if produced within the state by a certified raw

>dairy, and raw *aged for more than 60 days* cheeses are legal

>and can be shipped interstate (and internationally), but *unaged*

>raw cheeses are not legal. I think it has something to do with the

>fact that the aging process, after 60 days, would reveal any

>contamination by " bad " bacteria.

There is something wrong with this logic: (government logic is hard to

understand). I can buy fresh raw milk and take it home and drink it today.

If there are an bad microbes I won't know (until the lab tests at the

hospital come back (-. But it can not be made into cheese that isn't

aged for 60 days.

The only incidents in California I remember from the past 5 years has been

contaminated pasteurized cheese from well known California supermarket brand.

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Alec " <me@...>

> There is something wrong with this logic: (government logic is hard to

> understand). I can buy fresh raw milk and take it home and drink it today.

> If there are an bad microbes I won't know (until the lab tests at the

> hospital come back (-. But it can not be made into cheese that isn't

> aged for 60 days.

I think the idea is that cheese which has been aging for, say, three weeks,

will have a higher bacteria count than the milk from which it is made, but

still not high enough for its presence to be obvious. Either that or they're

just being stupid. There's no law that says that the government can't be

stupid, and no doubt there are quite a few which say that it must.

[Guest guest]

>

>The only incidents in California I remember from the past 5 years has been

>contaminated pasteurized cheese from well known California supermarket brand.

my note of yesterday had a link on it that talked about the problems

with raw milk and salmonella from Claravale farm, in particular, not

that I am complaining about them. Also mentioned on one of several

pages was the Odwalla problem of a few years ago. just do a search for

raw milk in California and you will find good deal more as reported by

the government papers, and unfortunately, no links to source of raw

milk.

My wife is, thus far, refusing to try raw milk, though she is willing

to eat raw goat cheese that we found. i expect that really is the end

of the discussion as far as I am concerned, i want to try some, but a

pint of milk last me more than a week.

OR is there something to be done with raw milk after it has set in the

fridge for a week or so? I read some things you folks are making,

leaving it on the counter, but please a brief description.

FWIW, I did find and most of the way through the book " Traditional

Foods are the Best Medicine " and when I find Sally's book I will get

and read that too.

Thanks

Mike