water buffalo (was Re: pork question)

[Guest guest]

> > >I *can* tell you that hindus don't eat

> > > cows, but they do eat water

> > > buffalo.

> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Something might be clipped here>>>>>>>

> > >>>I was discussing this with several hindu coworkers.

> > They said that only female cows are considered sacred.

> >

> > ***LOL *Cows* are, by definition, female.

> > Males are called " steer " or " bulls. "

> >

> >Clipped>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>No direct attack (honestly) Suze but what's the spin

> on this phrase, " Males are called " steer " or " bulls " . " ??? Any of

you

> folks find this statement difficult to understand??????? I think we

> need to work on our communication skills. I know I'm always trying

to

> myself. Males of the cattle family are called " bulls " . A farmer

> generally calls a male calf, " a bull calf " . Now I haven't had time

to

> check all the postings to see if this has been corrected, however,

you

> will want to, before publishing for farmers. Generally and not

> loosely speaking, a steer is a castrated male of the cattle (bovine)

> family. Best regards, Dennis Kemnitz

>

>

> ****What the...heck? OK, at first I couldn't figure out what point

you are

> trying to make. I said " cows are by definition female " and males are

called

> steer or bulls. Then you said that's difficult to understand, but

then went

> ahead and stated the exact same thing, albeit adding a little

further

> detail. I just figured you were having a cocktail while writing

it. But

> then I went back to the first line i wrote from a previous post,

which you

> quoted:

>

> I *can* tell you that hindus don't eat

> > > cows, but they do eat water

> > > buffalo.

>

> Then it dawned on me that you may not have been having a cocktail,

but that

> you believe that *water buffalo* and *cattle* are the same thing,

which

> *would* make my first statement confusing. So then I tried to

remember why

> it is that I thought water buffalo and cattle are different species.

I do

> recall that they looked different in nepal - the cows looked like

cows I've

> seen in the states (lots of brown and white markings, IIRC), albeit

often

> emaciated. I remember them well as they were ubiquitous in kathmandu

and

> pretty much ruled the streets. you are forced to become laid back

when cows

> prevent you from getting where you are going and you can't do

anything about

> it due to their sacred status. if they laid down in the middle of

the street

> you just had to go around them...or wait. But, the water buffalos

seemed

> larger, solid coal color, and had bigger curved horns. I don't

recall seeing

> them getting any special treatment...So then I did a web search and

found

> that they are indeed different species (at least that's what I

assume since

> cattle have 60 chromosomes and water buffalo have 48-50). Not only

that, but

> American *buffalo* are not even really buffalo, but more closely

related to

> cattle than the water buffalo. Also, there are two main breeds of

water

> buffalo - swamp buffalo and river buffalo. I don't know which kind I

saw and

> ate in kathmandu, but I think it's the bigger and darker grey river

buffalo.

>

> To my knowledge *female* water buffalo are not sacred to Hindus -

the sacred

> status just applies to cattle. And, one site I found stated that

both sexes

> of *cattle* are sacred, and some southern indian villages have

temples

> dedicated to *only* the sacred *bull.* The following passage would

support

> this (as well as my description of how they block traffic):

>

> " For Indians, however, the sacred cow proved a major obstacle on

their

> country's road to economic modernization. The writing was on the

wall within

> a decade of India achieving its tumultuous independence in 1948;

then, as

> today, trucks were forced to crawl behind convoys of bullock-drawn

carts and

> stray, ambulating bulls majestically impeded urban traffic. "

> http://www.worldpaper.com/Archivewp/1996/Oct96/amit.html

>

> So maybe both sexes of cattle are sacred..? I wonder if there are

regional

> variances as well, since religions tend to morph a bit as they

spread to

> different regions...

>

> And another interesting reference on water buffalo milk from the

same URL:

>

> " These obstacles have effectively stopped India from becoming the

biggest

> exporter of meat to the Middle East and from being Asia's leading

leather

> supplier as well. One side effect of the sacred cow has been to keep

the

> ever-neglected water buffalo from gaining status among Hindu

farmers. In

> spite of the fact that the buffalo's mortality rate is low, its

upkeep is

> cheap and it yields more high quality milk than cows, it numbers

only one

> third of the cattle population. "

>

> And if you really want *more* details on water buffalo, see the

following:

>

>

> http://ww2.netnitco.net/users/djligda/wbfacts.htm#001

> (info on historic origins, genetics and regional distribution)

>

> http://www.wildchannel.com/features/waterbuff3.htm

> " t is not possible to crossbreed cattle with Water buffalo for

genetic

> reasons. The Buffalo have 48 to 50 chromosomes, whereas cattle have

60. "

>

> Interesting factoid (or myth!):

> n Asia, Water Buffalo milk has been considered an aphrodisiac and

some have

> associated it with their high population growth rate.

>

> Another interesting thing some of the web sites mentioned is that

they are

> resistant to many of the parasites that infect cattle.

>

>

>

> OK! All you ever wanted to know about water buffalo Hey, maybe I

should

> use this as a basis for my nutrition thesis to be posted and

nitpicked at

> some future date:

> " Water Buffalo: meat, milk and taboos. "

>

>

>

>

> Suze Fisher

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

> mailto:s.fisher22@v...

>>>>>>>>>>>Suze I didn't post anything about water buffalo. That was

someone else. But I'll tell you again (in another way) a steer can

not produce offspring whereas a bull can. Just showing how your above

statement indicating " a male is a steer or bull " is incorrect and how

your statement would be misleading when published in " beyond..... "

Some of you are so concerned about whether pasteurized milk prevents

calves' reaching maturity, I thought you'd want to get this correct

soonest. Hope we can move on. Dennis