Re: Considering going NC- needing input, thoughts

[Guest guest]

Doug,

Thank you for your insight and thoughts. I appreciate how you dissected my post-

each and every one of your suggestions have been backed up by others.

For years, my sisters and I thought we had to be the only ones alive who have

lived with this kind of behavior and insanity. To read that other siblings have

made the decision to toast their parents deaths, to celebrate the end and

grieve, over the parent you didn't have- is so refreshing.

Having found this group, read Eggshells, etc., helped me with my first phone

conversation I've had with nada for two weeks. While I was upset- I didn't plug

and play. I kept my ground (had a migraine later, but hey, it's progress!)

I'm looking for a therapist and told nada that once I'm ready I agree to

establish a new relationship but only with the help of a professional. We'll see

if she comes.

In the meantime- she never heard a word I said during our conversation. of

course, I'm the one who needs to work on myself. She even tried to say her

counselor agreed that I need to accept responsibility for her threatening to try

and get my kids taken away. BS!

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts.

Hope you are well into your journey!

Blair

>

>

>

> >

> > Here recently, I tried to tell her how uncomfortable I was, as a

> child, to have to hear about her and my step-father sex life (on the

> RARE occassion they had sex) she'd tell me all about his semen running

> down her leg after they had sex- when I brought it up and said it was

> too much information for a child (and a daughter, period) she responded

> with " Well, I thought I could talk to you as a mature adult. I guess you

> weren't mature and still aren't. If you'd rather: I'll talk to you like

> a child. " (I'm nearly 30 years old!)

>

> This is one of the pieces of self excusing behaviors they are so fond of

> using. I m 55 years old. I would not have that conversation with

> another adult, let alone a child. It is simply crude, vulgar and

> inappropriate. My own nada assualted me with TMI about sex and her sex

> life with my dad, despite my repeated requests for her to stop it. It

> had nothing to do with adulthood. It is a form of sexual abuse. It is

> emotional incest. And it took me years to finally draw hard boundaries

> and say you will not do that anymore.

>

>

>

>

> > After the pregnancy, my mom held me hostage. Not only did I ruin her

> life by her marriage (which was never healthy) crumbling because of what

> happened now I was pregnant " AND HOW COULD I DO THAT TO HER???? "

> > So my burden was even greater.(I felt ashamed for > The entire few

> months we were gone she called and sobbed on the phone for HOURS,

> everyday, about how we were only leaving because we were selfish and

> wanted money. One day, I received a card that was clearly meant for star

> crossed and separated lovers. She sentit to me- to illustrate how much

> she missed me! It was disgusting.

>

>

>

> They do not respect our limits or boundaries. Everything is all about

> her, and nothing is her fault. BP s leave a shattered trail of broken

> relationships. No one can tolerate them forever. They are mostly

> terribly inappropriate, as your card illustrates.

>

>

>

> >> Instead of understanding, like a normal parent, that we need our

> family time and I was stressed with the new job and the holidays- she

> blew up. You know how nadas get the voice, twisting every word until

> your insides are knotted up and you cave, just to cut your losses and

> move on -she informed me 'to enjoy my fucking day with my family. I

> guess I'll just have to stay home, alone, freezing. I guess I'll just

> have to turn my heater on. You may have money to burn but I don't have

> money but I guess I'll have to turn my heater on-there goes ALL my

> money. "

>

> Your mistake is to play the game. Once you play, you will lose. She

> will always win. The solution is never to play. It is not your

> responsibility if she is irresponsible with her money and gets in

> trouble. Most normal people DO turn on thier heat when it is cold,

> go to work so they can pay for the heat, and do not begrudge a family a

> day together, making that about the heat in her house.

>

> I would have interupted her hard right after enjoy your f ing day with

> your family...MOM..MOM...HEY! I will enjoy my day with my family. I

> ll talk to you later. And I do not appreciate you using that sort of

> language with me. When you do so , I m going to leave or hang up on

> you. So if you want to talk to me, ever, think about that. Then at

> once hang up. She won t like it. But you have to change the game. The

> game is not about her needs, tho she will always make it so. It is

> about her total failure to respect you, give you the courtesy to respect

> your needs and priorities, and her constant choice to manipulate you.

> Want to win? Then refuse to play.

>

>

>

>

> >

> > I thought: fuck it: we'll go in, cut her fire wood and come home. Our

> kids decided they'd stay home and play their new video games they got

> for Christmas and we went in.

> >

> > Well, she was pleased as punch we came in but once she realized that I

> hadn't come in to visit- that I was helping my man move the wood-

> because his back still hurt- she got PISSED. She came out while I was

> sweeping off her porch of wood shavings and told me " I'm done with you.

> I'm fucking done. Get off my fucking property and go home. I'm done, had

> it with you and your attitude. "

> >

> > We shrugged it off and went home.

>

>

>

> Do NOT shrug it off. Think about this. If any other human being

> treated you that way, you would say F it, and say have a nice life. Cut

> your own damn wood. I m not going to come help you and be abused at the

> same time.

>

>

>

>

> > Then, the suicide threats started. This went on for over a week.My

> sisters called the local 911 and police were sent to her house multiple

> times for welfare checks- she was " fine " and they wouldn't commit her.

>

>

>

> My nada used suicide ideations to manipulate me for decades. It is

> very , very hard to get mental health pros to commit a BP. If one of

> them hears her suicide threat, they can, with 2 MD s concurring, order

> a 24 hour hold. But usually unless they actually make a serious

> attempt, nothing is done. Some BP s will commit suicide. Far more

> with threaten their families with it to manipulate them. You can: Be

> manipulated. or, 2. Call police every single time and send them to her

> home. Or 3. Suggest she needs to get counseling. ( which she won t, of

> course. ) or 4. Say , mom, I hope you won t commit suicide. But I can

> t stop you, If you do, it will not be my fault, it will be your choice.

> If you wont get help, and do it, then it is all on you. I m not going

> to live my life just to keep you from threatening suicide.

>

> Parenthically, most suicides don t hysterically tell their kids I m

> gonna f in kill myself. Bullshit. That sort of stuff is pure damn

> manipulation.

>

>

> >

> > Before she exploded over the fire-wood chopping incident she watched

> my younger son a few times a week but once she snapped and started

> getting very hateful. Taking her violent behavior in the past, I

> informed her that the children would not be placed in the middle until

> she had her anger under control and got help. My twin sister, who lives

> locally, gave her the same mandate.

>

>

>

> I was a child raised by a BPD mother. I ll share with you my thoughts ,

> which I have shared on here many times with others. NEVER , EVER ,

> under any circumstances whatsoever, leave any child with a BP. NEVER.

> NEVER. Did I mention, NEVER.

> >

> > To get back at me- she threatened to call Child Protective Services-

> not because my children are in danger but to hurt me in response to her

> having the police check in.

>

> Let me say this delicately . Call them , Bitch. They get lots of

> calls. They screen what they consider legitimate threats and vindictive

> calls. If they do get a call and feel the need to investigate, they do

> just that. Once they determine there is no issue, they close the case

> and move on. They are not some kind of storm troopers just waiting for

> a call from some psycho bitch so they can go snatch kids.

>

>

> > She's made comments like " She'll have to suffer the consequences of

> keeping the children from me, " and it chilled me to the bone.

> >

> > Now that her cycle seems to have run its course, this time, she's

> called and left a few messages and emails. She's claiming that she's

> stepping out of the " cycle of abuse " me and my sisters are supposedly

> putting her in. She's also begging to see my youngest son. (my oldest

> doesn't really want to put up with her shit) so he hasn't been

> mentioned.

>

> I repeat, if you care at all for any child , NEVER NEVER,NEVER under

> any circumstances whatsoever, leave any child with a BP. If they

> choose to see them once they are adults, have at it. But now YOU are the

> adult. You are the one who can protect them. Do it.

> >

> > She's now saying " I've said I'm sorry and there's nothing I can do.

> It's now in your control. Only you have the power for us to have a

> normal mother/daughter relationship. That's what I've wanted all along,

> but it's up to you. "

>

> Answer? Mom, you have said you are sorry for 30 years, but you continue

> to do the same things. I don t have the power to create a normal

> relationship between us. Niether do you, unless you get some

> professional help with your issues. If that is really what you want,

> then get into counseling and maybe we can have it. If not, then this

> is just more meaningless words. I m NOT going to let you manipulate me.

> I m going to choose what is healthy for me, and for my family.

> >

> > I suggested a group counseling session but she's refused (although she

> says she's seeing one and that this professional told her that her

> emotions are validated and it sounds like we're manipulating her!) She

> " doesn't have to disclose to us who her counselor is because this is HER

> journey' and I doubt a counselor exists.

>

> I went thru this with nada. When she was in counseling and once when

> she was in a psych hosp, 2 diffferent counselors tried to get her in

> family counseling sessions. She pouted, played games, showed up35

> minutes late for an hour session. When she told me how the shrink or

> counselor told her she was right, and everyone else was wrong, I did not

> believe her, and she would not give permission for us to talk, or agree

> to family sessions.

>

> Of COURSE she is lying. Or if you prefer, gaslighting, remembering it

> differently from reality. But even if it were true, so what? Her

> emotions , valid or not, do NOT give her license to manipulate you and

> treat you so poorly.

>

> But I ll give you long, long odds, no legitimate counselor ever said any

> such thing. Counselors despise getting BPs. They are the very

> hardest patients they get to treat. Most will limit the number of BP

> pts they will see at any one time.

> >

> > So: are my feelings justified. I'm scared to death that she'll take

> off with my son and disappear but on the other hand, feel maybe I'm

> being paranoid and should try to be understanding of her mental

> illness....

> >

> > I need some input, quickly.

> >

> > I know that I need to focus on getting myself healthy. My nerves are

> shot and I just keep gaining weight but I don't know what to do about my

> mom.

>

>

> Solid, concrete advice:

>

> 1. Read Stop Walking on Eggshells.

>

> 2. Find yourself a good counselor

>

> 3. Read Boundaries.

>

> 4. Set boundaries with your mom. Establish the consequences of her

> violating them. ( rage at me, I won t talk to you for a week. Talk

> about sex with TMI, I ll hang up the phone. ect. )

>

> 5. Decide, you DO have the right to have a life. You do not owe her

> your life, your family, or your happiness. You simply don t.

>

> Good luck

>

>

>

> Doug

>