Re: Don't Know What To Do Next

[Guest guest]

with so much guilt plaguing you i would guess you are not in much of a position

to make any decisions right now that could have consequences later that you

can't think straight about now.. maybe the best thing to do might be to do

nothing now but wait till you have calmed down a bit and the guilty feelings

aren't so strong.  

what is it about the guilt that seems soooooo unbearable now?  what is the

worst thing that could happen if you did what you want to do?  does the guilt

remind you of anything that may have happened in the past .. that you might have

felt similarly about?

these are just thots that come to mind after reading your plea.. don't know if

they help at all.

blessings to you and alland of course, may we all heal,ann

Subject: Don't Know What To Do Next

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Thursday, February 3, 2011, 5:54 PM

 

Hi all,

I am just looking for some advice, as I feel like I am stuck between a rock

and a hard place and don't know what to do next.

I am 25/f and only recently found out about BPD and have been on this

listhost for a couple of months, even though I've been NC with my nada for

1.5 years. It culminated with my dad getting a temporary restraining order

against her almost two years ago immediately following my birthday. They had

separated a few months earlier and she had shown up drunk one night at my

dad's apartment and tried to bang down the door. For a long time we had

thought it was 'just' alcoholism, but coming upon this diagnosis (not

official or anything) has blown the door wide open.

There weren't many other instances of physical abuse, but the emotional and

verbal abuse ran rampant throughout my college years I think having to do

with my brother and I leaving and going off to try to have our own lives. My

childhood was actually not terrible in that my brother and I were very good

kids and as long as we did exactly what she wanted, we were treated well

because we made her look good to the world. And I certainly didn't know

anything else so I didn't know anything was abnormal.

Unfortunately, it doesn't feel like this new knowledge and all the reading

I've done has made me feel any better; in fact in a lot of ways, I've

started to feel worse. The one consolation is knowing I'm not alone here,

however, in pretty much every other way, I feel so lost, lonely, and

depressed, I don't know what to do next.

My career, relationships, and dating life have all been pretty much

destroyed because of the stress of nada over the past 3.5 years since I

graduated college. I've been working a job that's barely held me over (but

at least kept me from moving back home) and now I am becoming too depressed

to do even that.

Despite the fact that I've gone NC simply in self-defense, I still feel like

I haven't successfully separated from her emotionally and still worry about

family members calling me up to tell me what a bad daughter I am for not

being or doing such and such for her. I recently went on a birthright trip

to Israel for 10 days, thinking it would be a change of pace and maybe give

me new perspective. The first half of the trip I was just relieved to be

halfway around the world from her (I laughed to myself when I knew the

Middle East was a safer place for me to be than Boston where nada and I both

live). The second half was consumed with worry about returning and what I'd

have to face. The worry and anxiety were compounded by the fact that I met a

guy on the trip who (gasp) actually liked me and it was like sheer agony

because the more I let myself like him back, the more guilt and pain I

suffered for feeling like I was being disloyal to nada by the possibility of

forming a new relationship which would mean not putting her and all her

needs first.

Therapy has had an ameliorative effect, in that I have a very good T who

assertively validates my feelings and has experience himself with

dysfunctional and substance abusing parents, but when he's literally the

only one validating my experiences and feelings, it doesn't feel like it's

enough at all and I still feel so alone and guilty. The guilt eats away at

me daily. Since my father divorced her this past July, I think people are

starting to realize that something's up with her, but she's been so good at

putting on a sweet face for herself and at distortion campaigns aimed at me

and my dad, that she's had even good family members and friends fooled about

the abusive queen/witch she really is, not to mention the fact that she is

quite intelligent, manipulative, and can talk a white sheep black.

I feel so guilty constantly that I cannot have any contact with her without

feeling like she is emotionally dragging a machete through my chest

(especially as the oldest and the girl and the closest geographically, I

have been the closest " extension " of herself). My brother and dad and other

family members still manage to have limited contact with her and I feel like

such a bad person for not being able to do the same. It feels like it's

killing my soul either way: either expose myself to her so she can eat me

alive if I assert myself or subject me to guilt about what 'good daughters'

do for their mothers (ie make them the centers of their world and completely

give up themselves for them) or go NC and suffer as the victim of my own

guilt and perceived awfulness that I think family and friends see in me for

making this choice of having no contact with her. The guilt is killing my

soul. And how do I explain to this perfectly nice guy who comes from a nice

family that I have no contact with my mother? He knows I'm a good person and

I think he'd be understanding, but the guilt and societal pressure still eat

away at me. I think I should be able to have a relationship with her, even

as awful as she is, because she is my mother. I also haven't had contact

with anyone on the maternal side of the family for 1.5 years because there

were so many flying monkeys. I would like to get back in touch with some of

these people who I think would be understanding, but I am afraid even to do

that and I don't think it will alleviate any of my guilt.

My father has offered to let me move in with him down in Florida which I am

actually considering. He's sort of emotionally useless especially after

living with her for wayy too long and cannot offer any real emotional

support, but it could be a safe place physically far from Boston where I

could take a couple months to try to figure things out and what to do next.

The thing is, I still feel like I am abandoning her by moving, even though I

haven't spoken to her in a year and a half. I am the last person she has in

Boston and I feel guilty about that, like I am really leaving her officially

and perhaps sabotaging myself too by leaving her. I also don't think moving

down South will necessarily fix anything including my depression, anxiety,

and guilt, unless something else changes. I am not suicidal, but the guilt

is killing me and I feel so depressed I can barely function. My father

suggested maybe limited contact with her would alleviate some of the guilt,

but T said no. I've tried several antidepressants in the past (Zoloft,

Prozac, Effexor, Celexa, Wellbutrin, and Buspar) which have not done

anything, but I am so desperate I might to try again, but am hopeless that

anything will work. I am at such a loss as to what to do next, physically,

mentally, emotionally, and can't even begin to think about career-wise. I am

such an emotional and mental wreck and the guilt is the worst feeling in the

world. It had been tolerable for a while, but recently it's just felt like

it's been building, building, and feels like I will explode or have a

breakdown. I'm young, my life should be ahead of me, I should see options

open like my friends, but all I see is the walls closing in (like in Star

Wars), hopelessness, and guilt. Help. I am at a loss.

espressobeany

[Guest guest]

Hi Espresso!

Moving in with your dad could be a really great thing, IF he's not too screwed

up himself. Many posters here have fadas who are almost as bad as the nadas.

Clearly you understand what you're dealing with when it comes to your mom, but

it may take you a few years to figure out what's up with him (if there is, in

fact, anything " up " with him). For me, I knew that fada was messed up

first---mostly because nada drilled that into me and my brother every single day

for 20+ years---but it honestly took me a long time to figure out how messed up

she was.

Having said that, if you think he's basically okay, then this could be a nice

chance for you to get to know each other in a very different light than with her

around.

With the depression thing, I hate to say it, but it may be something that you

just have to work through. It's taken me years to get past it. I agree with your

T when he says you should separate from your Nada and it's nice that he's

validating you. If you can physically stay away from her, that's probably going

to be better for you in the long run. It'll also help you straighten out your

head.

Once you're away from her physically, you need to try to begin setting up mental

boundaries to separate yourself, but again, that's something that's probably

going to take a long time to work through. (I like to refer to my nada by her

first name in my head rather than " mom " . It reminds me that she's just a person,

and a highly flawed one at that.)

Try to surround yourself with sane people. You're vulnerable, and it's easy to

get caught up in drama when we're vulnerable.

Also, attend to any physical needs that could lessen your depression: take fish

oil supplements and vitamin D or get some sun, and take up some moderate

exercise like walking if you're not already doing that.

Most of all, you MUST start giving yourself permission to be happy. Have fun. Go

do things you like. Hang out with people you like. Laugh. Go to funny movies

with friends. Go to dinner. Drink wine and be silly.

People with BPD have tricked their kids into thinking that life is always bad,

always hard, always dark. This is a horrible lie. The truth is that much of the

time, we can choose to be happy. And it's actually not that hard. It's just a

choice!

[Guest guest]

Hi Beany,

My suggestion is that you find a therapist who is experienced with treating

those who are co-dependent. I am not a psychologist, but to me you sound like

you feel very, very inappropriately responsible for your mother, as though she

is an abandoned, injured puppy.

Your mother has trained you to feel this way, its almost like you're hypnotized

or brainwashed or something. Even though you understand intellectually that you

are not responsible for your mother's feelings or her well-being or her

alcoholism, you subconscious is punishing you for even wanting to have a normal,

independent adult life that doesn't revolve around her.

She's got you seriously paralyzed with fear that if you make any move toward

normalizing your relationship with her (meaning: if you create a normal amount

of emotional distance with her) that SOMETHING BAD will happen and it will be

all your fault.

So, maybe you can find the nearest Al-Anon meeting (emotional support for the

family members of alcoholics) and get some live feedback and emotional support,

while you look for a therapist who understands that you are basically being held

hostage by your not-a-mom ( " nada " ) and you need help to rescue yourself from

this emotional terrorism.

I hope that helps.

-Annie

>

> Hi all,

>

> I am just looking for some advice, as I feel like I am stuck between a rock

> and a hard place and don't know what to do next.

>

> I am 25/f and only recently found out about BPD and have been on this

> listhost for a couple of months, even though I've been NC with my nada for

> 1.5 years. It culminated with my dad getting a temporary restraining order

> against her almost two years ago immediately following my birthday. They had

> separated a few months earlier and she had shown up drunk one night at my

> dad's apartment and tried to bang down the door. For a long time we had

> thought it was 'just' alcoholism, but coming upon this diagnosis (not

> official or anything) has blown the door wide open.

>

> There weren't many other instances of physical abuse, but the emotional and

> verbal abuse ran rampant throughout my college years I think having to do

> with my brother and I leaving and going off to try to have our own lives. My

> childhood was actually not terrible in that my brother and I were very good

> kids and as long as we did exactly what she wanted, we were treated well

> because we made her look good to the world. And I certainly didn't know

> anything else so I didn't know anything was abnormal.

>

> Unfortunately, it doesn't feel like this new knowledge and all the reading

> I've done has made me feel any better; in fact in a lot of ways, I've

> started to feel worse. The one consolation is knowing I'm not alone here,

> however, in pretty much every other way, I feel so lost, lonely, and

> depressed, I don't know what to do next.

>

> My career, relationships, and dating life have all been pretty much

> destroyed because of the stress of nada over the past 3.5 years since I

> graduated college. I've been working a job that's barely held me over (but

> at least kept me from moving back home) and now I am becoming too depressed

> to do even that.

>

> Despite the fact that I've gone NC simply in self-defense, I still feel like

> I haven't successfully separated from her emotionally and still worry about

> family members calling me up to tell me what a bad daughter I am for not

> being or doing such and such for her. I recently went on a birthright trip

> to Israel for 10 days, thinking it would be a change of pace and maybe give

> me new perspective. The first half of the trip I was just relieved to be

> halfway around the world from her (I laughed to myself when I knew the

> Middle East was a safer place for me to be than Boston where nada and I both

> live). The second half was consumed with worry about returning and what I'd

> have to face. The worry and anxiety were compounded by the fact that I met a

> guy on the trip who (gasp) actually liked me and it was like sheer agony

> because the more I let myself like him back, the more guilt and pain I

> suffered for feeling like I was being disloyal to nada by the possibility of

> forming a new relationship which would mean not putting her and all her

> needs first.

>

> Therapy has had an ameliorative effect, in that I have a very good T who

> assertively validates my feelings and has experience himself with

> dysfunctional and substance abusing parents, but when he's literally the

> only one validating my experiences and feelings, it doesn't feel like it's

> enough at all and I still feel so alone and guilty. The guilt eats away at

> me daily. Since my father divorced her this past July, I think people are

> starting to realize that something's up with her, but she's been so good at

> putting on a sweet face for herself and at distortion campaigns aimed at me

> and my dad, that she's had even good family members and friends fooled about

> the abusive queen/witch she really is, not to mention the fact that she is

> quite intelligent, manipulative, and can talk a white sheep black.

>

> I feel so guilty constantly that I cannot have any contact with her without

> feeling like she is emotionally dragging a machete through my chest

> (especially as the oldest and the girl and the closest geographically, I

> have been the closest " extension " of herself). My brother and dad and other

> family members still manage to have limited contact with her and I feel like

> such a bad person for not being able to do the same. It feels like it's

> killing my soul either way: either expose myself to her so she can eat me

> alive if I assert myself or subject me to guilt about what 'good daughters'

> do for their mothers (ie make them the centers of their world and completely

> give up themselves for them) or go NC and suffer as the victim of my own

> guilt and perceived awfulness that I think family and friends see in me for

> making this choice of having no contact with her. The guilt is killing my

> soul. And how do I explain to this perfectly nice guy who comes from a nice

> family that I have no contact with my mother? He knows I'm a good person and

> I think he'd be understanding, but the guilt and societal pressure still eat

> away at me. I think I should be able to have a relationship with her, even

> as awful as she is, because she is my mother. I also haven't had contact

> with anyone on the maternal side of the family for 1.5 years because there

> were so many flying monkeys. I would like to get back in touch with some of

> these people who I think would be understanding, but I am afraid even to do

> that and I don't think it will alleviate any of my guilt.

>

> My father has offered to let me move in with him down in Florida which I am

> actually considering. He's sort of emotionally useless especially after

> living with her for wayy too long and cannot offer any real emotional

> support, but it could be a safe place physically far from Boston where I

> could take a couple months to try to figure things out and what to do next.

> The thing is, I still feel like I am abandoning her by moving, even though I

> haven't spoken to her in a year and a half. I am the last person she has in

> Boston and I feel guilty about that, like I am really leaving her officially

> and perhaps sabotaging myself too by leaving her. I also don't think moving

> down South will necessarily fix anything including my depression, anxiety,

> and guilt, unless something else changes. I am not suicidal, but the guilt

> is killing me and I feel so depressed I can barely function. My father

> suggested maybe limited contact with her would alleviate some of the guilt,

> but T said no. I've tried several antidepressants in the past (Zoloft,

> Prozac, Effexor, Celexa, Wellbutrin, and Buspar) which have not done

> anything, but I am so desperate I might to try again, but am hopeless that

> anything will work. I am at such a loss as to what to do next, physically,

> mentally, emotionally, and can't even begin to think about career-wise. I am

> such an emotional and mental wreck and the guilt is the worst feeling in the

> world. It had been tolerable for a while, but recently it's just felt like

> it's been building, building, and feels like I will explode or have a

> breakdown. I'm young, my life should be ahead of me, I should see options

> open like my friends, but all I see is the walls closing in (like in Star

> Wars), hopelessness, and guilt. Help. I am at a loss.

>

> espressobeany

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, This is my first time joining a blog support group. I feel better already

knowing you are all out there. I'm older than you (60), and know exactly what

you are going through as my mother (BPD) has done the same things to me all my

life and continues up until today. I was 36 before I realized that she was ill,

and then still couldn't believe it. My very patient psychologist husband

explained her illness to me over and over, but I could not believe it and felt

very guilty about my feelings. It was through his help, my own therapist, and 2

very close friends that I began to recover. Be careful how you choose your

friends. As daughters of BP you might pick " chaotic " women. This is b/c that's

all you're used to. Don't. You need calm, normal friends. You don't have to

share everything, mainly b/c most people don't get it. But just being around

them helps you to experience the normal life you never had, and teaches you

those behaviors.

As for distancing yourself with miles, it just doesn't work. You can go live on

the moon and you'll still feel guilty and think about her.

You need to learn the same skills to protect yourself no matter where you live.

If no contact is the only thing that works for now, then so be it. That's what

you need to do to heal and grow and protect yourself. I guarantee you that if

you called her today or 5 years from now, the conversation will be the same from

her end. So you might as well stay away and make a normal life for yourself

until you are emotionally ready to handle her if you choose to. Bringing her

back into your life should only be done when and if you are ready to handle it.

I put some miles between us deliberately so that I have an excuse as to why I

don't visit and it seems to work. It's taken me years to be able to call and not

pay attention to all her rantings and ravings. I just say over and over, " uh

huh, uh huh. " When she asks for advice about the particular crises of the day, I

answer, " I don't know. " If she starts screaming, I calmly say, I can't listen to

you when you shout, so I'll talk to you when you feel better. Then I hang up.

But that took me 25years to do!!! She never got any help, my father stayed until

he died (still confused), and my brothers and sister still have a very hard time

with it. We are all good children who want to do the " right thing " , as you do,

but the most important thing for someone so young as you is to do the right

thing for yourself. Live your life for yourself, get strong, make nice friends,

enjoy your normal boyfriend and his family. You don't need to give excuses about

your mother. It's no one's business why you don't see her. Work on that with

your T. Mourn the fact that you got the sick mother and will never ever have a

normal one. Replace her with people you can love and trust. Good luck.

>

> Hi all,

>

> I am just looking for some advice, as I feel like I am stuck between a rock

> and a hard place and don't know what to do next.

>

> I am 25/f and only recently found out about BPD and have been on this

> listhost for a couple of months, even though I've been NC with my nada for

> 1.5 years. It culminated with my dad getting a temporary restraining order

> against her almost two years ago immediately following my birthday. They had

> separated a few months earlier and she had shown up drunk one night at my

> dad's apartment and tried to bang down the door. For a long time we had

> thought it was 'just' alcoholism, but coming upon this diagnosis (not

> official or anything) has blown the door wide open.

>

> There weren't many other instances of physical abuse, but the emotional and

> verbal abuse ran rampant throughout my college years I think having to do

> with my brother and I leaving and going off to try to have our own lives. My

> childhood was actually not terrible in that my brother and I were very good

> kids and as long as we did exactly what she wanted, we were treated well

> because we made her look good to the world. And I certainly didn't know

> anything else so I didn't know anything was abnormal.

>

> Unfortunately, it doesn't feel like this new knowledge and all the reading

> I've done has made me feel any better; in fact in a lot of ways, I've

> started to feel worse. The one consolation is knowing I'm not alone here,

> however, in pretty much every other way, I feel so lost, lonely, and

> depressed, I don't know what to do next.

>

> My career, relationships, and dating life have all been pretty much

> destroyed because of the stress of nada over the past 3.5 years since I

> graduated college. I've been working a job that's barely held me over (but

> at least kept me from moving back home) and now I am becoming too depressed

> to do even that.

>

> Despite the fact that I've gone NC simply in self-defense, I still feel like

> I haven't successfully separated from her emotionally and still worry about

> family members calling me up to tell me what a bad daughter I am for not

> being or doing such and such for her. I recently went on a birthright trip

> to Israel for 10 days, thinking it would be a change of pace and maybe give

> me new perspective. The first half of the trip I was just relieved to be

> halfway around the world from her (I laughed to myself when I knew the

> Middle East was a safer place for me to be than Boston where nada and I both

> live). The second half was consumed with worry about returning and what I'd

> have to face. The worry and anxiety were compounded by the fact that I met a

> guy on the trip who (gasp) actually liked me and it was like sheer agony

> because the more I let myself like him back, the more guilt and pain I

> suffered for feeling like I was being disloyal to nada by the possibility of

> forming a new relationship which would mean not putting her and all her

> needs first.

>

> Therapy has had an ameliorative effect, in that I have a very good T who

> assertively validates my feelings and has experience himself with

> dysfunctional and substance abusing parents, but when he's literally the

> only one validating my experiences and feelings, it doesn't feel like it's

> enough at all and I still feel so alone and guilty. The guilt eats away at

> me daily. Since my father divorced her this past July, I think people are

> starting to realize that something's up with her, but she's been so good at

> putting on a sweet face for herself and at distortion campaigns aimed at me

> and my dad, that she's had even good family members and friends fooled about

> the abusive queen/witch she really is, not to mention the fact that she is

> quite intelligent, manipulative, and can talk a white sheep black.

>

> I feel so guilty constantly that I cannot have any contact with her without

> feeling like she is emotionally dragging a machete through my chest

> (especially as the oldest and the girl and the closest geographically, I

> have been the closest " extension " of herself). My brother and dad and other

> family members still manage to have limited contact with her and I feel like

> such a bad person for not being able to do the same. It feels like it's

> killing my soul either way: either expose myself to her so she can eat me

> alive if I assert myself or subject me to guilt about what 'good daughters'

> do for their mothers (ie make them the centers of their world and completely

> give up themselves for them) or go NC and suffer as the victim of my own

> guilt and perceived awfulness that I think family and friends see in me for

> making this choice of having no contact with her. The guilt is killing my

> soul. And how do I explain to this perfectly nice guy who comes from a nice

> family that I have no contact with my mother? He knows I'm a good person and

> I think he'd be understanding, but the guilt and societal pressure still eat

> away at me. I think I should be able to have a relationship with her, even

> as awful as she is, because she is my mother. I also haven't had contact

> with anyone on the maternal side of the family for 1.5 years because there

> were so many flying monkeys. I would like to get back in touch with some of

> these people who I think would be understanding, but I am afraid even to do

> that and I don't think it will alleviate any of my guilt.

>

> My father has offered to let me move in with him down in Florida which I am

> actually considering. He's sort of emotionally useless especially after

> living with her for wayy too long and cannot offer any real emotional

> support, but it could be a safe place physically far from Boston where I

> could take a couple months to try to figure things out and what to do next.

> The thing is, I still feel like I am abandoning her by moving, even though I

> haven't spoken to her in a year and a half. I am the last person she has in

> Boston and I feel guilty about that, like I am really leaving her officially

> and perhaps sabotaging myself too by leaving her. I also don't think moving

> down South will necessarily fix anything including my depression, anxiety,

> and guilt, unless something else changes. I am not suicidal, but the guilt

> is killing me and I feel so depressed I can barely function. My father

> suggested maybe limited contact with her would alleviate some of the guilt,

> but T said no. I've tried several antidepressants in the past (Zoloft,

> Prozac, Effexor, Celexa, Wellbutrin, and Buspar) which have not done

> anything, but I am so desperate I might to try again, but am hopeless that

> anything will work. I am at such a loss as to what to do next, physically,

> mentally, emotionally, and can't even begin to think about career-wise. I am

> such an emotional and mental wreck and the guilt is the worst feeling in the

> world. It had been tolerable for a while, but recently it's just felt like

> it's been building, building, and feels like I will explode or have a

> breakdown. I'm young, my life should be ahead of me, I should see options

> open like my friends, but all I see is the walls closing in (like in Star

> Wars), hopelessness, and guilt. Help. I am at a loss.

>

> espressobeany

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Espressobeany,

This paragraphy feels like I wrote it -

There weren't many other instances of physical abuse, but the emotional and

verbal abuse ran rampant throughout my college years I think having to do with

my brother and I leaving and going off to try to have our own lives. My

childhood was actually not terrible in that my brother and I were very good kids

and as long as we did exactly what she wanted, we were treated well because we

made her look good to the world. And I certainly didn't know anything else so I

didn't know anything was abnormal.

I am an only child and daughter so get get the good daughter guilt you spoke of

so well. Thinking of having your own life makes you a terrible person to her.

The only advice I can offer you is to hang in there and keep talking with your

therapist. Also, you could try journaling about your guilt and anxieties and

try to " let them go " when you write them down. You don't always have to think

about them b/c they're there written down, so you can let them go for awhile.

Also, you could try to do 1 fun thing every day. Make little happy treats for

yourself. Watch a tv show you love, take a walk, read a magazine, etc.

For the overwhelming depression, I know this sounds like it won't work but it

has sometimes worked for me. Focus on the little things that can bring you joy,

make a game of it to really be in the moment. Focus on what you're drinking how

it really tastes, the temperature, appreciate your ability to swallow without

pain, breathe in deeply and appreciate that blessing (when you don't have a

cold) sometimes focusing on the details can help stop the avalanche related to

your mother.

You are not alone, lots of us understand and agree with you. You're not a bad

person for wanting to save yourself.

Good luck,

>

> Hi all,

>

> I am just looking for some advice, as I feel like I am stuck between a rock

> and a hard place and don't know what to do next.

>

> I am 25/f and only recently found out about BPD and have been on this

> listhost for a couple of months, even though I've been NC with my nada for

> 1.5 years. It culminated with my dad getting a temporary restraining order

> against her almost two years ago immediately following my birthday. They had

> separated a few months earlier and she had shown up drunk one night at my

> dad's apartment and tried to bang down the door. For a long time we had

> thought it was 'just' alcoholism, but coming upon this diagnosis (not

> official or anything) has blown the door wide open.

>

> There weren't many other instances of physical abuse, but the emotional and

> verbal abuse ran rampant throughout my college years I think having to do

> with my brother and I leaving and going off to try to have our own lives. My

> childhood was actually not terrible in that my brother and I were very good

> kids and as long as we did exactly what she wanted, we were treated well

> because we made her look good to the world. And I certainly didn't know

> anything else so I didn't know anything was abnormal.

>

> Unfortunately, it doesn't feel like this new knowledge and all the reading

> I've done has made me feel any better; in fact in a lot of ways, I've

> started to feel worse. The one consolation is knowing I'm not alone here,

> however, in pretty much every other way, I feel so lost, lonely, and

> depressed, I don't know what to do next.

>

> My career, relationships, and dating life have all been pretty much

> destroyed because of the stress of nada over the past 3.5 years since I

> graduated college. I've been working a job that's barely held me over (but

> at least kept me from moving back home) and now I am becoming too depressed

> to do even that.

>

> Despite the fact that I've gone NC simply in self-defense, I still feel like

> I haven't successfully separated from her emotionally and still worry about

> family members calling me up to tell me what a bad daughter I am for not

> being or doing such and such for her. I recently went on a birthright trip

> to Israel for 10 days, thinking it would be a change of pace and maybe give

> me new perspective. The first half of the trip I was just relieved to be

> halfway around the world from her (I laughed to myself when I knew the

> Middle East was a safer place for me to be than Boston where nada and I both

> live). The second half was consumed with worry about returning and what I'd

> have to face. The worry and anxiety were compounded by the fact that I met a

> guy on the trip who (gasp) actually liked me and it was like sheer agony

> because the more I let myself like him back, the more guilt and pain I

> suffered for feeling like I was being disloyal to nada by the possibility of

> forming a new relationship which would mean not putting her and all her

> needs first.

>

> Therapy has had an ameliorative effect, in that I have a very good T who

> assertively validates my feelings and has experience himself with

> dysfunctional and substance abusing parents, but when he's literally the

> only one validating my experiences and feelings, it doesn't feel like it's

> enough at all and I still feel so alone and guilty. The guilt eats away at

> me daily. Since my father divorced her this past July, I think people are

> starting to realize that something's up with her, but she's been so good at

> putting on a sweet face for herself and at distortion campaigns aimed at me

> and my dad, that she's had even good family members and friends fooled about

> the abusive queen/witch she really is, not to mention the fact that she is

> quite intelligent, manipulative, and can talk a white sheep black.

>

> I feel so guilty constantly that I cannot have any contact with her without

> feeling like she is emotionally dragging a machete through my chest

> (especially as the oldest and the girl and the closest geographically, I

> have been the closest " extension " of herself). My brother and dad and other

> family members still manage to have limited contact with her and I feel like

> such a bad person for not being able to do the same. It feels like it's

> killing my soul either way: either expose myself to her so she can eat me

> alive if I assert myself or subject me to guilt about what 'good daughters'

> do for their mothers (ie make them the centers of their world and completely

> give up themselves for them) or go NC and suffer as the victim of my own

> guilt and perceived awfulness that I think family and friends see in me for

> making this choice of having no contact with her. The guilt is killing my

> soul. And how do I explain to this perfectly nice guy who comes from a nice

> family that I have no contact with my mother? He knows I'm a good person and

> I think he'd be understanding, but the guilt and societal pressure still eat

> away at me. I think I should be able to have a relationship with her, even

> as awful as she is, because she is my mother. I also haven't had contact

> with anyone on the maternal side of the family for 1.5 years because there

> were so many flying monkeys. I would like to get back in touch with some of

> these people who I think would be understanding, but I am afraid even to do

> that and I don't think it will alleviate any of my guilt.

>

> My father has offered to let me move in with him down in Florida which I am

> actually considering. He's sort of emotionally useless especially after

> living with her for wayy too long and cannot offer any real emotional

> support, but it could be a safe place physically far from Boston where I

> could take a couple months to try to figure things out and what to do next.

> The thing is, I still feel like I am abandoning her by moving, even though I

> haven't spoken to her in a year and a half. I am the last person she has in

> Boston and I feel guilty about that, like I am really leaving her officially

> and perhaps sabotaging myself too by leaving her. I also don't think moving

> down South will necessarily fix anything including my depression, anxiety,

> and guilt, unless something else changes. I am not suicidal, but the guilt

> is killing me and I feel so depressed I can barely function. My father

> suggested maybe limited contact with her would alleviate some of the guilt,

> but T said no. I've tried several antidepressants in the past (Zoloft,

> Prozac, Effexor, Celexa, Wellbutrin, and Buspar) which have not done

> anything, but I am so desperate I might to try again, but am hopeless that

> anything will work. I am at such a loss as to what to do next, physically,

> mentally, emotionally, and can't even begin to think about career-wise. I am

> such an emotional and mental wreck and the guilt is the worst feeling in the

> world. It had been tolerable for a while, but recently it's just felt like

> it's been building, building, and feels like I will explode or have a

> breakdown. I'm young, my life should be ahead of me, I should see options

> open like my friends, but all I see is the walls closing in (like in Star

> Wars), hopelessness, and guilt. Help. I am at a loss.

>

> espressobeany

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry espressobeanny that you are feeling depressed. I would imagine having a

nada who self-medicates with alcohol probably adds another layer of complication

to her borderline personality disorder.

You cannot take care of nada or anyone else if you aren't taking care of

yourself first. I would highly advise you not to get back in touch with nada if

you are feeling so down. I really think it will only give you a very temporary

reprieve from the guilt you are feeling and may likely make you feel worse in

the long run. I agree with others, nada has trained you to have this self-talk

that you are responsible for her. Healthy relationships can only be built

between two adults when both parties take full responsibility for their

happiness.

As for moving in with your dad, try to be as objective as you can about your

decision. Sometimes a co-dependent parent can be fairly healthy when they aren't

around the bpd but if your dad is recommending that you see your nada, I

question if he is giving good advice. I am then also wondering if this is

someone you want to surround yourself with at this point in your healing.

What you speak of is why this list is such a life-saver for us all. We are here

for you and we get it.

peace,

patinage

[Guest guest]

Hey Knitting4Sanity,

It's so funny that you mentioned surrounding ourselves with chaotic women. I

have found that, up until recently, I had someone managed to acquire female

friends who are just as unbalanced as nada. It made me start to wonder if the

problem really was me. One friend in particular I had to actually ask other

people if I was imagining things. The other people all looked at me like I was

crazy for being friends with this person because she was totally psycho (their

words not mine). Then I somehow acquired a friend who was totally co-dependent

on me. She went totally Single White Female on me too. I eventually separated

myself, but I learned from that time on to be careful about how close I get to

people before making sure they are safe. But, you know, I'm feeling a little

hopeless because it just seems like there are so many personality disordered,

unhealthy people out there. It makes me wonder if I'll ever be able to have

relationships with healthy people who aren't nucking futs.

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I am just looking for some advice, as I feel like I am stuck between a rock

> > and a hard place and don't know what to do next.

> >

> > I am 25/f and only recently found out about BPD and have been on this

> > listhost for a couple of months, even though I've been NC with my nada for

> > 1.5 years. It culminated with my dad getting a temporary restraining order

> > against her almost two years ago immediately following my birthday. They had

> > separated a few months earlier and she had shown up drunk one night at my

> > dad's apartment and tried to bang down the door. For a long time we had

> > thought it was 'just' alcoholism, but coming upon this diagnosis (not

> > official or anything) has blown the door wide open.

> >

> > There weren't many other instances of physical abuse, but the emotional and

> > verbal abuse ran rampant throughout my college years I think having to do

> > with my brother and I leaving and going off to try to have our own lives. My

> > childhood was actually not terrible in that my brother and I were very good

> > kids and as long as we did exactly what she wanted, we were treated well

> > because we made her look good to the world. And I certainly didn't know

> > anything else so I didn't know anything was abnormal.

> >

> > Unfortunately, it doesn't feel like this new knowledge and all the reading

> > I've done has made me feel any better; in fact in a lot of ways, I've

> > started to feel worse. The one consolation is knowing I'm not alone here,

> > however, in pretty much every other way, I feel so lost, lonely, and

> > depressed, I don't know what to do next.

> >

> > My career, relationships, and dating life have all been pretty much

> > destroyed because of the stress of nada over the past 3.5 years since I

> > graduated college. I've been working a job that's barely held me over (but

> > at least kept me from moving back home) and now I am becoming too depressed

> > to do even that.

> >

> > Despite the fact that I've gone NC simply in self-defense, I still feel like

> > I haven't successfully separated from her emotionally and still worry about

> > family members calling me up to tell me what a bad daughter I am for not

> > being or doing such and such for her. I recently went on a birthright trip

> > to Israel for 10 days, thinking it would be a change of pace and maybe give

> > me new perspective. The first half of the trip I was just relieved to be

> > halfway around the world from her (I laughed to myself when I knew the

> > Middle East was a safer place for me to be than Boston where nada and I both

> > live). The second half was consumed with worry about returning and what I'd

> > have to face. The worry and anxiety were compounded by the fact that I met a

> > guy on the trip who (gasp) actually liked me and it was like sheer agony

> > because the more I let myself like him back, the more guilt and pain I

> > suffered for feeling like I was being disloyal to nada by the possibility of

> > forming a new relationship which would mean not putting her and all her

> > needs first.

> >

> > Therapy has had an ameliorative effect, in that I have a very good T who

> > assertively validates my feelings and has experience himself with

> > dysfunctional and substance abusing parents, but when he's literally the

> > only one validating my experiences and feelings, it doesn't feel like it's

> > enough at all and I still feel so alone and guilty. The guilt eats away at

> > me daily. Since my father divorced her this past July, I think people are

> > starting to realize that something's up with her, but she's been so good at

> > putting on a sweet face for herself and at distortion campaigns aimed at me

> > and my dad, that she's had even good family members and friends fooled about

> > the abusive queen/witch she really is, not to mention the fact that she is

> > quite intelligent, manipulative, and can talk a white sheep black.

> >

> > I feel so guilty constantly that I cannot have any contact with her without

> > feeling like she is emotionally dragging a machete through my chest

> > (especially as the oldest and the girl and the closest geographically, I

> > have been the closest " extension " of herself). My brother and dad and other

> > family members still manage to have limited contact with her and I feel like

> > such a bad person for not being able to do the same. It feels like it's

> > killing my soul either way: either expose myself to her so she can eat me

> > alive if I assert myself or subject me to guilt about what 'good daughters'

> > do for their mothers (ie make them the centers of their world and completely

> > give up themselves for them) or go NC and suffer as the victim of my own

> > guilt and perceived awfulness that I think family and friends see in me for

> > making this choice of having no contact with her. The guilt is killing my

> > soul. And how do I explain to this perfectly nice guy who comes from a nice

> > family that I have no contact with my mother? He knows I'm a good person and

> > I think he'd be understanding, but the guilt and societal pressure still eat

> > away at me. I think I should be able to have a relationship with her, even

> > as awful as she is, because she is my mother. I also haven't had contact

> > with anyone on the maternal side of the family for 1.5 years because there

> > were so many flying monkeys. I would like to get back in touch with some of

> > these people who I think would be understanding, but I am afraid even to do

> > that and I don't think it will alleviate any of my guilt.

> >

> > My father has offered to let me move in with him down in Florida which I am

> > actually considering. He's sort of emotionally useless especially after

> > living with her for wayy too long and cannot offer any real emotional

> > support, but it could be a safe place physically far from Boston where I

> > could take a couple months to try to figure things out and what to do next.

> > The thing is, I still feel like I am abandoning her by moving, even though I

> > haven't spoken to her in a year and a half. I am the last person she has in

> > Boston and I feel guilty about that, like I am really leaving her officially

> > and perhaps sabotaging myself too by leaving her. I also don't think moving

> > down South will necessarily fix anything including my depression, anxiety,

> > and guilt, unless something else changes. I am not suicidal, but the guilt

> > is killing me and I feel so depressed I can barely function. My father

> > suggested maybe limited contact with her would alleviate some of the guilt,

> > but T said no. I've tried several antidepressants in the past (Zoloft,

> > Prozac, Effexor, Celexa, Wellbutrin, and Buspar) which have not done

> > anything, but I am so desperate I might to try again, but am hopeless that

> > anything will work. I am at such a loss as to what to do next, physically,

> > mentally, emotionally, and can't even begin to think about career-wise. I am

> > such an emotional and mental wreck and the guilt is the worst feeling in the

> > world. It had been tolerable for a while, but recently it's just felt like

> > it's been building, building, and feels like I will explode or have a

> > breakdown. I'm young, my life should be ahead of me, I should see options

> > open like my friends, but all I see is the walls closing in (like in Star

> > Wars), hopelessness, and guilt. Help. I am at a loss.

> >

> > espressobeany

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Espressobeany, I feel your pain. So often I have felt so much of what you are

feeling!Not feeling free to live your own life, all the guilt the depression.

But just remember its your life! not hers. Continue seeing your T and this

website. we are here for you:)everything you are feeling is normal. you are not

a bad daughter you are a beautiful person:) julie

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I am just looking for some advice, as I feel like I am stuck between a rock

> > and a hard place and don't know what to do next.

> >

> > I am 25/f and only recently found out about BPD and have been on this

> > listhost for a couple of months, even though I've been NC with my nada for

> > 1.5 years. It culminated with my dad getting a temporary restraining order

> > against her almost two years ago immediately following my birthday. They had

> > separated a few months earlier and she had shown up drunk one night at my

> > dad's apartment and tried to bang down the door. For a long time we had

> > thought it was 'just' alcoholism, but coming upon this diagnosis (not

> > official or anything) has blown the door wide open.

> >

> > There weren't many other instances of physical abuse, but the emotional and

> > verbal abuse ran rampant throughout my college years I think having to do

> > with my brother and I leaving and going off to try to have our own lives. My

> > childhood was actually not terrible in that my brother and I were very good

> > kids and as long as we did exactly what she wanted, we were treated well

> > because we made her look good to the world. And I certainly didn't know

> > anything else so I didn't know anything was abnormal.

> >

> > Unfortunately, it doesn't feel like this new knowledge and all the reading

> > I've done has made me feel any better; in fact in a lot of ways, I've

> > started to feel worse. The one consolation is knowing I'm not alone here,

> > however, in pretty much every other way, I feel so lost, lonely, and

> > depressed, I don't know what to do next.

> >

> > My career, relationships, and dating life have all been pretty much

> > destroyed because of the stress of nada over the past 3.5 years since I

> > graduated college. I've been working a job that's barely held me over (but

> > at least kept me from moving back home) and now I am becoming too depressed

> > to do even that.

> >

> > Despite the fact that I've gone NC simply in self-defense, I still feel like

> > I haven't successfully separated from her emotionally and still worry about

> > family members calling me up to tell me what a bad daughter I am for not

> > being or doing such and such for her. I recently went on a birthright trip

> > to Israel for 10 days, thinking it would be a change of pace and maybe give

> > me new perspective. The first half of the trip I was just relieved to be

> > halfway around the world from her (I laughed to myself when I knew the

> > Middle East was a safer place for me to be than Boston where nada and I both

> > live). The second half was consumed with worry about returning and what I'd

> > have to face. The worry and anxiety were compounded by the fact that I met a

> > guy on the trip who (gasp) actually liked me and it was like sheer agony

> > because the more I let myself like him back, the more guilt and pain I

> > suffered for feeling like I was being disloyal to nada by the possibility of

> > forming a new relationship which would mean not putting her and all her

> > needs first.

> >

> > Therapy has had an ameliorative effect, in that I have a very good T who

> > assertively validates my feelings and has experience himself with

> > dysfunctional and substance abusing parents, but when he's literally the

> > only one validating my experiences and feelings, it doesn't feel like it's

> > enough at all and I still feel so alone and guilty. The guilt eats away at

> > me daily. Since my father divorced her this past July, I think people are

> > starting to realize that something's up with her, but she's been so good at

> > putting on a sweet face for herself and at distortion campaigns aimed at me

> > and my dad, that she's had even good family members and friends fooled about

> > the abusive queen/witch she really is, not to mention the fact that she is

> > quite intelligent, manipulative, and can talk a white sheep black.

> >

> > I feel so guilty constantly that I cannot have any contact with her without

> > feeling like she is emotionally dragging a machete through my chest

> > (especially as the oldest and the girl and the closest geographically, I

> > have been the closest " extension " of herself). My brother and dad and other

> > family members still manage to have limited contact with her and I feel like

> > such a bad person for not being able to do the same. It feels like it's

> > killing my soul either way: either expose myself to her so she can eat me

> > alive if I assert myself or subject me to guilt about what 'good daughters'

> > do for their mothers (ie make them the centers of their world and completely

> > give up themselves for them) or go NC and suffer as the victim of my own

> > guilt and perceived awfulness that I think family and friends see in me for

> > making this choice of having no contact with her. The guilt is killing my

> > soul. And how do I explain to this perfectly nice guy who comes from a nice

> > family that I have no contact with my mother? He knows I'm a good person and

> > I think he'd be understanding, but the guilt and societal pressure still eat

> > away at me. I think I should be able to have a relationship with her, even

> > as awful as she is, because she is my mother. I also haven't had contact

> > with anyone on the maternal side of the family for 1.5 years because there

> > were so many flying monkeys. I would like to get back in touch with some of

> > these people who I think would be understanding, but I am afraid even to do

> > that and I don't think it will alleviate any of my guilt.

> >

> > My father has offered to let me move in with him down in Florida which I am

> > actually considering. He's sort of emotionally useless especially after

> > living with her for wayy too long and cannot offer any real emotional

> > support, but it could be a safe place physically far from Boston where I

> > could take a couple months to try to figure things out and what to do next.

> > The thing is, I still feel like I am abandoning her by moving, even though I

> > haven't spoken to her in a year and a half. I am the last person she has in

> > Boston and I feel guilty about that, like I am really leaving her officially

> > and perhaps sabotaging myself too by leaving her. I also don't think moving

> > down South will necessarily fix anything including my depression, anxiety,

> > and guilt, unless something else changes. I am not suicidal, but the guilt

> > is killing me and I feel so depressed I can barely function. My father

> > suggested maybe limited contact with her would alleviate some of the guilt,

> > but T said no. I've tried several antidepressants in the past (Zoloft,

> > Prozac, Effexor, Celexa, Wellbutrin, and Buspar) which have not done

> > anything, but I am so desperate I might to try again, but am hopeless that

> > anything will work. I am at such a loss as to what to do next, physically,

> > mentally, emotionally, and can't even begin to think about career-wise. I am

> > such an emotional and mental wreck and the guilt is the worst feeling in the

> > world. It had been tolerable for a while, but recently it's just felt like

> > it's been building, building, and feels like I will explode or have a

> > breakdown. I'm young, my life should be ahead of me, I should see options

> > open like my friends, but all I see is the walls closing in (like in Star

> > Wars), hopelessness, and guilt. Help. I am at a loss.

> >

> > espressobeany

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi espresso beany; The guilt thing is really awful. I think you're feeling it

more now b/c of 2 things. 1. was your b/d which is very special and of course

you have memories of pleasant ones and you crave that again, even as you get

older, and 2; you're sad that you feel you can't attend the family events that

you'd like to be part of. After all, why should you be punished and isolated b/c

of her. Well guess what? You don't. What I learned to do in these situations is

to attend with my SO or a close friend that gets it. Have them stay by your side

and act almost like the wonderwoman shield. You don't have to even look at her

or speak b/c your shield will protect you. If it's a wedding, have them sit you

on the other side of the room. If she tries to approach you, turn around and

walk away. Of course this is a little harder in a small intimate setting. If you

attend those, keep your friend at your side like superglue. The BPD is less

likely to act up with

witnesses around. Just smile, and stay busy with everyone else.Leave if things

get unpleasant. This is not easy. It took me a long time to be able to do this.

You also wrote that you are worried about her talking about you. Her behavior

speaks for itself. She comes with a history that most people in her circle are

aware of. You just have to be yourself and relax. Hope this helps. maureen

Subject: Re: Re: Don't Know What To Do Next

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 2:36 AM

 

Thanks for everyone's responses. I think I am just going to sit things out

for a while and not make any sudden moves until I have a better sense of

what that next move should be. It's true that physical distance doesn't

matter if our minds are still parked right next door. I went to school

halfway across the country and my problems regarding FOO followed me as if

they were superglued. I just wish the answer would come right away and I

would stop feeling so badly.

I don't know what it is about the guilt that is making it so much worse now,

but it's been building pretty steadily over the past 12 months. I can

pinpoint exactly when it started: my birthday almost a full year ago, last

February. I went out of town for weekend because I didn't want to be around

if nada decided to bang on my door, but I got a boatload of phone calls from

everyone and that threw me into a panic. About a month later I decided to

change my phone number which was a pretty big step. I didn't give it to

anyone in my family. So in certain ways, that did really cut me off from

everyone, both the good and the bad people. I didn't trust anyone to have my

number because I was afraid it would somehow get compromised and into nada's

hands. On one hand I was proud of myself for doing this because it had

gotten to the point where I would have panic attacks any time nada called,

even when I didn't pick up, which was always at that point. On the other

hand though, the guilt that came with shutting out my mother and my family

and many friends that she had access to was huge and also isolating. I also

had to miss two weddings this past year and two the year before because nada

was going to be there and I couldn't bear to see her which added even more

guilt, even if was self-imposed because these were people I loved and I was

missing an important day in their lives. I was also afraid of what this was

doing to my reputation and what nada might be saying about me both for

missing these events and for cutting off all contact with not just her, but

many people who had contact with her. In certain ways, the imagined

reactions in my head are probably worse than the real ones if I actually

talked to some of these people, but I am still very afraid of contacting

family on her side in case they've been brainwashed by her. I guess the

combination of these two things, (1) building walls to protect myself and

(2) missing important family events that I would normally have loved to

attend, has made me feel like a bad daughter, even though I've only done

what I've had to do to protect myself. But as one of you said, it's like

I've taken all of nada's berating and fully embraced it and made it my own,

perhaps to repent for not having contact with her. If she can't punish me,

then I should punish myself. How twisted is that? And yet that's how I feel,

like I should pay somehow for hurting her with NC. Or if she'd gonna be

miserable, I should be too. Oh my god this is so messed up. Intellectually

I'm fully aware of that and what an unhealthy amount of time I spend focused

on her, and yet I don't know how to do anything to fix it or to let it go. T

says the solution to the problem lies completely outside the problem, which

means I need to stop focusing on her and instead focus on other people and

things, yet that solution seems so overwhelming and daunting because it

means setting her aside and finding other options and relationships.

I think the guilt also increased a notch (3) when I found a couple months

ago that my parents were fully divorced, which had happened back in July,

but because I hadn't spoken to anyone or read anyone's emails, I hadn't been

aware of. On one hand, this was a relief because it indicated that my dad

permanently severed ties with her and got the hell away to Florida which

helped affirm that I wasn't crazy in thinking she was crazy and abusive. But

the other side of the coin was that he would no longer be around to act as a

buffer if I still wanted to have limited contact or go back to visit however

briefly. So in that way it felt like he abandoned me too, as he wouldn't be

there to defend or simply witness her crazy against me. Being alone with her

terrifies me and being alone with her on the phone terrifies me because she

always guilts me with something, usually it's about not having enough

contact, and with the divorce, it seemed like such a finality and such a

nail in the coffin in that unfortunately I was now the one responsible to

look after her now that he left. I know that's messed up, but some people

see it that way especially in an Irish Catholic family like her, that it's

the kids job to look after their mother especially once a spouse has gone

for whatever reason. And I, as the oldest and the daughter and the

geographically closest, fall perfectly into the category for that. I had

always prided myself on being a good person, especially a good daughter, and

living according to ethical standards and here it was feeling like I'd

become an awful person who had completely stopped doing all of those things

including living ethically. It has affected my own identity and roles which

I valued so deeply.

So those three things are basically the basis of my guilt. It's true Amber

that " people with BPD have tricked their kids into thinking that life is

always bad, always hard, always dark. This is a horrible lie. " I just wish I

could trick myself out of it! Yet I feel like I will die or have a breakdown

if I actually go try to do what I want to do.

[Guest guest]

Hi Beany,

i don't know if you can afford therapy - but if you can, find someone you

click with and commit to it. As far as anti-depresants, lithium and

risperadone are worth trying. As far as guys - just tell the guy, and if he

judges you badly for not talking to your parents, that says more about his

issues than yours and dump him and run. But you might just be surprised to

find he really understands.

I wanted to share with you my key learnings from therapy that have helped me

with the guilt:

1) I am a full person - not the undeserving servant my mother told me I

was.As

2) As a full person, I'm entitled to just as much joy, fun and love as

anyone else (really, i thought that was for others and I was less than

everyone else. much much less than.)

3) As a " real " person, I am entitled to my opions. My perceptions matter.

And I have the right not to call people I don't like, not to try to please

assholes and to say yes when I mean it and no as many times as it takes.

4) If I don't feel like saying no, or if I'm put in a position to say no too

many times, the sight of my ass as I turn my back and walk away might just

make the greatest statement of all - " goodbye. "

5) I am not deformed, shameful, a horror movie villain, a bitch, a slut or

any of the other things my mother said I was.

That's a start. Really, I didn't know i was a " real " person, just as

important as anyone else. I think once you start to realize that, the guilt

begins to disipate.

Another biggie is that I started to look around and notice that people are

not idenitcal twins to their parents - they don't have to do what their

parents do, live where their parents live, decorate their house like their

parents would, travel to the places their parents want to go or worship at

the church their parents chose. That was a big eye opener - its normal to be

an individual.

XOXO Girlscout

On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 6:45 AM, Maureen Kelley wrote:

>

>

> Hi espresso beany; The guilt thing is really awful. I think you're feeling

> it more now b/c of 2 things. 1. was your b/d which is very special and of

> course you have memories of pleasant ones and you crave that again, even as

> you get older, and 2; you're sad that you feel you can't attend the family

> events that you'd like to be part of. After all, why should you be punished

> and isolated b/c of her. Well guess what? You don't. What I learned to do in

> these situations is to attend with my SO or a close friend that gets it.

> Have them stay by your side and act almost like the wonderwoman shield. You

> don't have to even look at her or speak b/c your shield will protect you. If

> it's a wedding, have them sit you on the other side of the room. If she

> tries to approach you, turn around and walk away. Of course this is a little

> harder in a small intimate setting. If you attend those, keep your friend at

> your side like superglue. The BPD is less likely to act up with

> witnesses around. Just smile, and stay busy with everyone else.Leave if

> things get unpleasant. This is not easy. It took me a long time to be able

> to do this. You also wrote that you are worried about her talking about you.

> Her behavior speaks for itself. She comes with a history that most people in

> her circle are aware of. You just have to be yourself and relax. Hope this

> helps. maureen

>

>

>

> From: espresso beany <espressobeany@... <espressobeany%40gmail.com>>

> Subject: Re: Re: Don't Know What To Do Next

> To: WTOAdultChildren1 <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 2:36 AM

>

>

>

>

> Thanks for everyone's responses. I think I am just going to sit things out

> for a while and not make any sudden moves until I have a better sense of

> what that next move should be. It's true that physical distance doesn't

> matter if our minds are still parked right next door. I went to school

> halfway across the country and my problems regarding FOO followed me as if

> they were superglued. I just wish the answer would come right away and I

> would stop feeling so badly.

>

> I don't know what it is about the guilt that is making it so much worse

> now,

> but it's been building pretty steadily over the past 12 months. I can

> pinpoint exactly when it started: my birthday almost a full year ago, last

> February. I went out of town for weekend because I didn't want to be around

> if nada decided to bang on my door, but I got a boatload of phone calls

> from

> everyone and that threw me into a panic. About a month later I decided to

> change my phone number which was a pretty big step. I didn't give it to

> anyone in my family. So in certain ways, that did really cut me off from

> everyone, both the good and the bad people. I didn't trust anyone to have

> my

> number because I was afraid it would somehow get compromised and into

> nada's

> hands. On one hand I was proud of myself for doing this because it had

> gotten to the point where I would have panic attacks any time nada called,

> even when I didn't pick up, which was always at that point. On the other

> hand though, the guilt that came with shutting out my mother and my family

> and many friends that she had access to was huge and also isolating. I also

> had to miss two weddings this past year and two the year before because

> nada

> was going to be there and I couldn't bear to see her which added even more

> guilt, even if was self-imposed because these were people I loved and I was

> missing an important day in their lives. I was also afraid of what this was

> doing to my reputation and what nada might be saying about me both for

> missing these events and for cutting off all contact with not just her, but

> many people who had contact with her. In certain ways, the imagined

> reactions in my head are probably worse than the real ones if I actually

> talked to some of these people, but I am still very afraid of contacting

> family on her side in case they've been brainwashed by her. I guess the

> combination of these two things, (1) building walls to protect myself and

> (2) missing important family events that I would normally have loved to

> attend, has made me feel like a bad daughter, even though I've only done

> what I've had to do to protect myself. But as one of you said, it's like

> I've taken all of nada's berating and fully embraced it and made it my own,

> perhaps to repent for not having contact with her. If she can't punish me,

> then I should punish myself. How twisted is that? And yet that's how I

> feel,

> like I should pay somehow for hurting her with NC. Or if she'd gonna be

> miserable, I should be too. Oh my god this is so messed up. Intellectually

> I'm fully aware of that and what an unhealthy amount of time I spend

> focused

> on her, and yet I don't know how to do anything to fix it or to let it go.

> T

> says the solution to the problem lies completely outside the problem, which

> means I need to stop focusing on her and instead focus on other people and

> things, yet that solution seems so overwhelming and daunting because it

> means setting her aside and finding other options and relationships.

>

> I think the guilt also increased a notch (3) when I found a couple months

> ago that my parents were fully divorced, which had happened back in July,

> but because I hadn't spoken to anyone or read anyone's emails, I hadn't

> been

> aware of. On one hand, this was a relief because it indicated that my dad

> permanently severed ties with her and got the hell away to Florida which

> helped affirm that I wasn't crazy in thinking she was crazy and abusive.

> But

> the other side of the coin was that he would no longer be around to act as

> a

> buffer if I still wanted to have limited contact or go back to visit

> however

> briefly. So in that way it felt like he abandoned me too, as he wouldn't be

> there to defend or simply witness her crazy against me. Being alone with

> her

> terrifies me and being alone with her on the phone terrifies me because she

> always guilts me with something, usually it's about not having enough

> contact, and with the divorce, it seemed like such a finality and such a

> nail in the coffin in that unfortunately I was now the one responsible to

> look after her now that he left. I know that's messed up, but some people

> see it that way especially in an Irish Catholic family like her, that it's

> the kids job to look after their mother especially once a spouse has gone

> for whatever reason. And I, as the oldest and the daughter and the

> geographically closest, fall perfectly into the category for that. I had

> always prided myself on being a good person, especially a good daughter,

> and

> living according to ethical standards and here it was feeling like I'd

> become an awful person who had completely stopped doing all of those things

> including living ethically. It has affected my own identity and roles which

> I valued so deeply.

>

> So those three things are basically the basis of my guilt. It's true Amber

> that " people with BPD have tricked their kids into thinking that life is

> always bad, always hard, always dark. This is a horrible lie. " I just wish

> I

> could trick myself out of it! Yet I feel like I will die or have a

> breakdown

> if I actually go try to do what I want to do.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Greetings, from Idaho!

My sister lives in Boston- maybe you guys could form an BPD support group.....

(That was my first thought reading your post)

The second- was the all-consuming guilt you feel about abandoning your nada. All

the while, growing up, I thought it was neat my Mom and I were best friends and

thought it odd that other kids weren't as close to their parents. However, as I

grew up and saw my sisters pulling toward adulthood- and not feeling guilty

about it- I knew the relationship nada and I had wasn't " special " it was

" clinical. "

But what to do? You do LOVE your parents and we are all taught to " Respect thy

father and mother, " I'm nearly 30-years old and still trying to reconcile just

what that means.

Even today, with 10 years marriage, two children and successful career I feel

guilty about having it all- while my nada sits alone at home. I envision her

every day, sitting like she did everyday we were growing up: clad in baggy,

flannel pajamas, her feet up on the table, a coffee cup in her left hand-a

glowing menthol-light in her right.

The struggle you have sounds similar to mine: when nada got what she wanted we

kids were treated (what we assumed as) well. We had food to eat, all got good

grades, were active in school and went on summer vacations as a family.

But the abuse behind closed doors-that you face as an adult when trying to pull

your identity from your nadas blows the charade wide open.

You think: I'm going on my first date! Why is she angry? She'll miss me- I

should be home.

You probably didn't have many friends growing up. My husband and I have couple

friends- but they are his guy-friends and the wives never get together beyond

parties for the men. I don't have one friend- never had any friends, except

nada. Growing up we hung out. I thought we were buds but as an adult- she isn't

supportive to me being my own person. She is mad as hell that we are grown and

don't need her to be the same mother she was when we were little kids- she wants

that, but who can continue being treated- and acting like a 3-year-old?

Remember- you are able bodied adult. Throw the guilt off your shoulders: her

sickness isn't yours to hold.

I'm starting therapy next week to see how that goes.

Good luck!

>

> Hi all,

>

> I am just looking for some advice, as I feel like I am stuck between a rock

> and a hard place and don't know what to do next.

>

> I am 25/f and only recently found out about BPD and have been on this

> listhost for a couple of months, even though I've been NC with my nada for

> 1.5 years. It culminated with my dad getting a temporary restraining order

> against her almost two years ago immediately following my birthday. They had

> separated a few months earlier and she had shown up drunk one night at my

> dad's apartment and tried to bang down the door. For a long time we had

> thought it was 'just' alcoholism, but coming upon this diagnosis (not

> official or anything) has blown the door wide open.

>

> There weren't many other instances of physical abuse, but the emotional and

> verbal abuse ran rampant throughout my college years I think having to do

> with my brother and I leaving and going off to try to have our own lives. My

> childhood was actually not terrible in that my brother and I were very good

> kids and as long as we did exactly what she wanted, we were treated well

> because we made her look good to the world. And I certainly didn't know

> anything else so I didn't know anything was abnormal.

>

> Unfortunately, it doesn't feel like this new knowledge and all the reading

> I've done has made me feel any better; in fact in a lot of ways, I've

> started to feel worse. The one consolation is knowing I'm not alone here,

> however, in pretty much every other way, I feel so lost, lonely, and

> depressed, I don't know what to do next.

>

> My career, relationships, and dating life have all been pretty much

> destroyed because of the stress of nada over the past 3.5 years since I

> graduated college. I've been working a job that's barely held me over (but

> at least kept me from moving back home) and now I am becoming too depressed

> to do even that.

>

> Despite the fact that I've gone NC simply in self-defense, I still feel like

> I haven't successfully separated from her emotionally and still worry about

> family members calling me up to tell me what a bad daughter I am for not

> being or doing such and such for her. I recently went on a birthright trip

> to Israel for 10 days, thinking it would be a change of pace and maybe give

> me new perspective. The first half of the trip I was just relieved to be

> halfway around the world from her (I laughed to myself when I knew the

> Middle East was a safer place for me to be than Boston where nada and I both

> live). The second half was consumed with worry about returning and what I'd

> have to face. The worry and anxiety were compounded by the fact that I met a

> guy on the trip who (gasp) actually liked me and it was like sheer agony

> because the more I let myself like him back, the more guilt and pain I

> suffered for feeling like I was being disloyal to nada by the possibility of

> forming a new relationship which would mean not putting her and all her

> needs first.

>

> Therapy has had an ameliorative effect, in that I have a very good T who

> assertively validates my feelings and has experience himself with

> dysfunctional and substance abusing parents, but when he's literally the

> only one validating my experiences and feelings, it doesn't feel like it's

> enough at all and I still feel so alone and guilty. The guilt eats away at

> me daily. Since my father divorced her this past July, I think people are

> starting to realize that something's up with her, but she's been so good at

> putting on a sweet face for herself and at distortion campaigns aimed at me

> and my dad, that she's had even good family members and friends fooled about

> the abusive queen/witch she really is, not to mention the fact that she is

> quite intelligent, manipulative, and can talk a white sheep black.

>

> I feel so guilty constantly that I cannot have any contact with her without

> feeling like she is emotionally dragging a machete through my chest

> (especially as the oldest and the girl and the closest geographically, I

> have been the closest " extension " of herself). My brother and dad and other

> family members still manage to have limited contact with her and I feel like

> such a bad person for not being able to do the same. It feels like it's

> killing my soul either way: either expose myself to her so she can eat me

> alive if I assert myself or subject me to guilt about what 'good daughters'

> do for their mothers (ie make them the centers of their world and completely

> give up themselves for them) or go NC and suffer as the victim of my own

> guilt and perceived awfulness that I think family and friends see in me for

> making this choice of having no contact with her. The guilt is killing my

> soul. And how do I explain to this perfectly nice guy who comes from a nice

> family that I have no contact with my mother? He knows I'm a good person and

> I think he'd be understanding, but the guilt and societal pressure still eat

> away at me. I think I should be able to have a relationship with her, even

> as awful as she is, because she is my mother. I also haven't had contact

> with anyone on the maternal side of the family for 1.5 years because there

> were so many flying monkeys. I would like to get back in touch with some of

> these people who I think would be understanding, but I am afraid even to do

> that and I don't think it will alleviate any of my guilt.

>

> My father has offered to let me move in with him down in Florida which I am

> actually considering. He's sort of emotionally useless especially after

> living with her for wayy too long and cannot offer any real emotional

> support, but it could be a safe place physically far from Boston where I

> could take a couple months to try to figure things out and what to do next.

> The thing is, I still feel like I am abandoning her by moving, even though I

> haven't spoken to her in a year and a half. I am the last person she has in

> Boston and I feel guilty about that, like I am really leaving her officially

> and perhaps sabotaging myself too by leaving her. I also don't think moving

> down South will necessarily fix anything including my depression, anxiety,

> and guilt, unless something else changes. I am not suicidal, but the guilt

> is killing me and I feel so depressed I can barely function. My father

> suggested maybe limited contact with her would alleviate some of the guilt,

> but T said no. I've tried several antidepressants in the past (Zoloft,

> Prozac, Effexor, Celexa, Wellbutrin, and Buspar) which have not done

> anything, but I am so desperate I might to try again, but am hopeless that

> anything will work. I am at such a loss as to what to do next, physically,

> mentally, emotionally, and can't even begin to think about career-wise. I am

> such an emotional and mental wreck and the guilt is the worst feeling in the

> world. It had been tolerable for a while, but recently it's just felt like

> it's been building, building, and feels like I will explode or have a

> breakdown. I'm young, my life should be ahead of me, I should see options

> open like my friends, but all I see is the walls closing in (like in Star

> Wars), hopelessness, and guilt. Help. I am at a loss.

>

> espressobeany

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I totally agree, especially with the " chaotic " women thing. I have joked

with my own therapist that I have " borderline radar " and that I'm a magnet

for them too. But thank god for the radar part because I usually pick up on

it at some point. It's made me very cautious about making friends.

Unfortunately I've crossed paths with too many people who I think could be

BPD. My T also says that adult survivors of abuse tend to end up being

repeatedly victimized by other people. Guess that's thanks to growing up in

Oz. How on earth could we be expected to know what's " normal " ? I'm

learning though. I don't wish to be victimized by unhealthy individuals

anymore.

Mia

On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 10:31 AM, knitting4sanity@... <

knitting4sanity@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Hi, This is my first time joining a blog support group. I feel better

> already knowing you are all out there. I'm older than you (60), and know

> exactly what you are going through as my mother (BPD) has done the same

> things to me all my life and continues up until today. I was 36 before I

> realized that she was ill, and then still couldn't believe it. My very

> patient psychologist husband explained her illness to me over and over, but

> I could not believe it and felt very guilty about my feelings. It was

> through his help, my own therapist, and 2 very close friends that I began to

> recover. Be careful how you choose your friends. As daughters of BP you

> might pick " chaotic " women. This is b/c that's all you're used to. Don't.

> You need calm, normal friends. You don't have to share everything, mainly

> b/c most people don't get it. But just being around them helps you to

> experience the normal life you never had, and teaches you those behaviors.

> As for distancing yourself with miles, it just doesn't work. You can go

> live on the moon and you'll still feel guilty and think about her.

> You need to learn the same skills to protect yourself no matter where you

> live. If no contact is the only thing that works for now, then so be it.

> That's what you need to do to heal and grow and protect yourself. I

> guarantee you that if you called her today or 5 years from now, the

> conversation will be the same from her end. So you might as well stay away

> and make a normal life for yourself until you are emotionally ready to

> handle her if you choose to. Bringing her back into your life should only be

> done when and if you are ready to handle it. I put some miles between us

> deliberately so that I have an excuse as to why I don't visit and it seems

> to work. It's taken me years to be able to call and not pay attention to all

> her rantings and ravings. I just say over and over, " uh huh, uh huh. " When

> she asks for advice about the particular crises of the day, I answer, " I

> don't know. " If she starts screaming, I calmly say, I can't listen to you

> when you shout, so I'll talk to you when you feel better. Then I hang up.

> But that took me 25years to do!!! She never got any help, my father stayed

> until he died (still confused), and my brothers and sister still have a very

> hard time with it. We are all good children who want to do the " right

> thing " , as you do, but the most important thing for someone so young as you

> is to do the right thing for yourself. Live your life for yourself, get

> strong, make nice friends, enjoy your normal boyfriend and his family. You

> don't need to give excuses about your mother. It's no one's business why you

> don't see her. Work on that with your T. Mourn the fact that you got the

> sick mother and will never ever have a normal one. Replace her with people

> you can love and trust. Good luck.

>