As a child who was split good most of the time

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to contribute to the board this thought:

It seems many people often think that the child who is split good has it easy,

but as a child who was split good until I became an adult, I have to say that's

just not so. Just because you are not the object of nada's hate and fury, does

not mean it doesn't affect you. Also, even as " the golden child " there is still

a lot of abuse. Nada tries to dress you the way she wants--basically you are

still an extension of her, even if you're the good child. But since you know

you're the good child, and could quickly become the bad child, you do whatever

it takes to remain the good child. So you wear what she likes. Her favorite

color is your favorite color.

Nada treats you like a replacement for the best friend and mother she never

had. She tells you intimate details about her relationship with your father and

expects you to give her advice, even though you are oly 16, never had a

boyfriend, and DUH, her daughter. If you ever exhibit independence, nada's fury

towards you is 10x as towards your black sheep brother, because you are the

" golden child " , because she has sacrificed everything for you, because she has

given you all the things she never had--whether you want them or not.

So before we judge the " good children " , our siblings who are painted white,

please remember that in many ways they are indoctrinated and suffering from a

Stockholm type syndrome. They/we developed survival skills to keep nada from

hurting them. Sometimes I feel like we talk about our siblings as being painted

white or black like they have some kind of choice in the matter. It's not their

fault. If my brothers blamed me because nada painted me white for so long, I

think it would seriously hurt me emotionally, especially because I suffered so

much abuse from her, and I am only now realizing how devastating being raised by

her was/is to me psychologically.

I am not saying at all to give into flying monnkeys or anything, because golden

children can certainly be them. I know in some ways I was. I just, well, I just

wanted to put it out there as food for thought.

[Guest guest]

--same here. I was golden for so long until about college, and then my

black sheep brother became the golden one, so therefore fada split me into

this awful child. All because I started being more independent from him.

I could go on, but I don't think I'm ready to. Let's just say that there's

plenty chance for PTSD from being the golden one. I felt horribly sorry for

my brother, though, and I hope he finds a chance to recover, too. As it is,

he's now the flying monkey and became a bada. Actually, he's imitating

fada's BPD behavior--maybe he's BPD, too? I don't know.

Also, I'm living with the guilt that I participated in fada's blackening of

my brother--reporting his bad behavior, siding with fada, etc...because that

was the safe thing to do. My brother and I used to be best friends, but fada

put a stop to that, sadly.

Holly

>

>

> I just wanted to contribute to the board this thought:

>

> It seems many people often think that the child who is split good has it

> easy, but as a child who was split good until I became an adult, I have to

> say that's just not so. Just because you are not the object of nada's hate

> and fury, does not mean it doesn't affect you. Also, even as " the golden

> child " there is still a lot of abuse. Nada tries to dress you the way she

> wants--basically you are still an extension of her, even if you're the good

> child. But since you know you're the good child, and could quickly become

> the bad child, you do whatever it takes to remain the good child. So you

> wear what she likes. Her favorite color is your favorite color.

>

> Nada treats you like a replacement for the best friend and mother she never

> had. She tells you intimate details about her relationship with your father

> and expects you to give her advice, even though you are oly 16, never had a

> boyfriend, and DUH, her daughter. If you ever exhibit independence, nada's

> fury towards you is 10x as towards your black sheep brother, because you are

> the " golden child " , because she has sacrificed everything for you, because

> she has given you all the things she never had--whether you want them or

> not.

>

> So before we judge the " good children " , our siblings who are painted white,

> please remember that in many ways they are indoctrinated and suffering from

> a Stockholm type syndrome. They/we developed survival skills to keep nada

> from hurting them. Sometimes I feel like we talk about our siblings as being

> painted white or black like they have some kind of choice in the matter.

> It's not their fault. If my brothers blamed me because nada painted me white

> for so long, I think it would seriously hurt me emotionally, especially

> because I suffered so much abuse from her, and I am only now realizing how

> devastating being raised by her was/is to me psychologically.

>

> I am not saying at all to give into flying monnkeys or anything, because

> golden children can certainly be them. I know in some ways I was. I just,

> well, I just wanted to put it out there as food for thought.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for putting this out there . I've been a bit uncomfortable too

with some of the talk about golden children having it easy or being weak.

Growing up a golden child (and only) is growing up an emotional hostage with a

gun to your head. You know damn well if you make your nada feel truly rejected

she'll pull the trigger. I wasn't strong enough to take an action that would

result in my nada pulling that trigger until I was 31. And the side of her I

saw was even worse than I had ever imagined it would be. In one conversation

she took away every bit of love I believed she'd ever given me, it was the most

painful experience of my life and I've been through some stuff.

Even though I am in contact with her and peace is relatively restored our

relationship will never be the same, and even now I can't bear the thought of

seeing that side of her. One day the price I pay for peace will exceed the

price I'd pay for war and then I'll enter split black territory for good. I do

have all the sympathy in the world for those who were split black and the

scapegoats all along, but (in a total grass is greener way) at least you had

less to lose by rebelling because the fight had come to you already.

The advice I wish I could go back in time to give myself or any current golden

children reading is this: if your nada has not yet entered the age of physical

and mental disability due to age make your stand now, make the break for your

freedom now. If you wait till after there's a real case for you having

obligation because of elder care needs, it becomes morally much more

complicated.

>

> I just wanted to contribute to the board this thought:

>

> It seems many people often think that the child who is split good has it easy,

but as a child who was split good until I became an adult, I have to say that's

just not so. Just because you are not the object of nada's hate and fury, does

not mean it doesn't affect you. Also, even as " the golden child " there is still

a lot of abuse. Nada tries to dress you the way she wants--basically you are

still an extension of her, even if you're the good child. But since you know

you're the good child, and could quickly become the bad child, you do whatever

it takes to remain the good child. So you wear what she likes. Her favorite

color is your favorite color.

>

> Nada treats you like a replacement for the best friend and mother she never

had. She tells you intimate details about her relationship with your father and

expects you to give her advice, even though you are oly 16, never had a

boyfriend, and DUH, her daughter. If you ever exhibit independence, nada's fury

towards you is 10x as towards your black sheep brother, because you are the

" golden child " , because she has sacrificed everything for you, because she has

given you all the things she never had--whether you want them or not.

>

> So before we judge the " good children " , our siblings who are painted white,

please remember that in many ways they are indoctrinated and suffering from a

Stockholm type syndrome. They/we developed survival skills to keep nada from

hurting them. Sometimes I feel like we talk about our siblings as being painted

white or black like they have some kind of choice in the matter. It's not their

fault. If my brothers blamed me because nada painted me white for so long, I

think it would seriously hurt me emotionally, especially because I suffered so

much abuse from her, and I am only now realizing how devastating being raised by

her was/is to me psychologically.

>

> I am not saying at all to give into flying monnkeys or anything, because

golden children can certainly be them. I know in some ways I was. I just, well,

I just wanted to put it out there as food for thought.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Your post is interesting to me. I was the black sheep and my brother was charged

with spying on me, until I left home at 18. It has taken many, many years for us

to build trust again. When my sister-in-law said " hi Mom " on her wedding day,

my mother said " I am not your mother, and you are not my daughter. " Okay. So

my brother has kind of mentally checked out...it's a problem my sister-in-law

has mentioned repeatedly. I would like for him to understand that I need to

keep away from my mother, for my own sanity. I need to be able to set limits

and express myself. He seems to want to protect her, which is very insulting to

me. Guess I should be surprised his experience was different than mine ...so

here is my question... how do you engage the support of your family while at the

same time letting them know it's impossible for you to continue to interact with

your own mother. I am really curious about how you first started talking about

your nada experience with your siblings, especially when you have had different

experiences. Sorry if this was already a topic that was posted, but would

appreciate ideas from other list members. ~D

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sun, February 13, 2011 7:07:43 PM

Subject: As a child who was split good most of the time

I just wanted to contribute to the board this thought:

It seems many people often think that the child who is split good has it easy,

but as a child who was split good until I became an adult, I have to say that's

just not so. Just because you are not the object of nada's hate and fury, does

not mean it doesn't affect you. Also, even as " the golden child " there is still

a lot of abuse. Nada tries to dress you the way she wants--basically you are

still an extension of her, even if you're the good child. But since you know

you're the good child, and could quickly become the bad child, you do whatever

it takes to remain the good child. So you wear what she likes. Her favorite

color is your favorite color.

Nada treats you like a replacement for the best friend and mother she never

had. She tells you intimate details about her relationship with your father and

expects you to give her advice, even though you are oly 16, never had a

boyfriend, and DUH, her daughter. If you ever exhibit independence, nada's fury

towards you is 10x as towards your black sheep brother, because you are the

" golden child " , because she has sacrificed everything for you, because she has

given you all the things she never had--whether you want them or not.

So before we judge the " good children " , our siblings who are painted white,

please remember that in many ways they are indoctrinated and suffering from a

Stockholm type syndrome. They/we developed survival skills to keep nada from

hurting them. Sometimes I feel like we talk about our siblings as being painted

white or black like they have some kind of choice in the matter. It's not their

fault. If my brothers blamed me because nada painted me white for so long, I

think it would seriously hurt me emotionally, especially because I suffered so

much abuse from her, and I am only now realizing how devastating being raised by

her was/is to me psychologically.

I am not saying at all to give into flying monnkeys or anything, because golden

children can certainly be them. I know in some ways I was. I just, well, I just

wanted to put it out there as food for thought.

[Guest guest]

Holly, I totally understand that guilt. I participated in the same blackening of

my brother, the middle child. However, recently, on Christmas, he called me and

actually asked " Why don't we talk? " And we had our first real conversation,

possibly ever. I look forward to healing myself and our relationship and having

the brother I didn't really get to have because of nada's splitting.

AManda

>

> >

> >

> > I just wanted to contribute to the board this thought:

> >

> > It seems many people often think that the child who is split good has it

> > easy, but as a child who was split good until I became an adult, I have to

> > say that's just not so. Just because you are not the object of nada's hate

> > and fury, does not mean it doesn't affect you. Also, even as " the golden

> > child " there is still a lot of abuse. Nada tries to dress you the way she

> > wants--basically you are still an extension of her, even if you're the good

> > child. But since you know you're the good child, and could quickly become

> > the bad child, you do whatever it takes to remain the good child. So you

> > wear what she likes. Her favorite color is your favorite color.

> >

> > Nada treats you like a replacement for the best friend and mother she never

> > had. She tells you intimate details about her relationship with your father

> > and expects you to give her advice, even though you are oly 16, never had a

> > boyfriend, and DUH, her daughter. If you ever exhibit independence, nada's

> > fury towards you is 10x as towards your black sheep brother, because you are

> > the " golden child " , because she has sacrificed everything for you, because

> > she has given you all the things she never had--whether you want them or

> > not.

> >

> > So before we judge the " good children " , our siblings who are painted white,

> > please remember that in many ways they are indoctrinated and suffering from

> > a Stockholm type syndrome. They/we developed survival skills to keep nada

> > from hurting them. Sometimes I feel like we talk about our siblings as being

> > painted white or black like they have some kind of choice in the matter.

> > It's not their fault. If my brothers blamed me because nada painted me white

> > for so long, I think it would seriously hurt me emotionally, especially

> > because I suffered so much abuse from her, and I am only now realizing how

> > devastating being raised by her was/is to me psychologically.

> >

> > I am not saying at all to give into flying monnkeys or anything, because

> > golden children can certainly be them. I know in some ways I was. I just,

> > well, I just wanted to put it out there as food for thought.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Whew! I was a little afraid I'd be ostracized for speaking up. It really is like

having a gun to your head. You have to feed your " abductor's " emotional needs

and make them feel good all the time, or they pull the trigger. And since you're

a child, you figure it's easier to do everything you can to make her happy,

versus standing up for yourself and becoming " bad " .

I don't at all envy the child labeled " bad " . I know my brother had so many

problems as a result. I know there was drug use, and he floundered as an adult

for awhile. But, at almost 35, he has really found his way.

Of course, my eldest brother is now the " golden child " , a split that happened

the second he had children. He can do no wrong, and now I am painted black. He

has also exhibited flying monkey behavior, and he and I used to be so close,

that it's another loss I have to grieve. I actually cut him out of my life

before nada, which really hurt because me and my nephew were best buds.

> >

> > I just wanted to contribute to the board this thought:

> >

> > It seems many people often think that the child who is split good has it

easy, but as a child who was split good until I became an adult, I have to say

that's just not so. Just because you are not the object of nada's hate and fury,

does not mean it doesn't affect you. Also, even as " the golden child " there is

still a lot of abuse. Nada tries to dress you the way she wants--basically you

are still an extension of her, even if you're the good child. But since you know

you're the good child, and could quickly become the bad child, you do whatever

it takes to remain the good child. So you wear what she likes. Her favorite

color is your favorite color.

> >

> > Nada treats you like a replacement for the best friend and mother she never

had. She tells you intimate details about her relationship with your father and

expects you to give her advice, even though you are oly 16, never had a

boyfriend, and DUH, her daughter. If you ever exhibit independence, nada's fury

towards you is 10x as towards your black sheep brother, because you are the

" golden child " , because she has sacrificed everything for you, because she has

given you all the things she never had--whether you want them or not.

> >

> > So before we judge the " good children " , our siblings who are painted white,

please remember that in many ways they are indoctrinated and suffering from a

Stockholm type syndrome. They/we developed survival skills to keep nada from

hurting them. Sometimes I feel like we talk about our siblings as being painted

white or black like they have some kind of choice in the matter. It's not their

fault. If my brothers blamed me because nada painted me white for so long, I

think it would seriously hurt me emotionally, especially because I suffered so

much abuse from her, and I am only now realizing how devastating being raised by

her was/is to me psychologically.

> >

> > I am not saying at all to give into flying monnkeys or anything, because

golden children can certainly be them. I know in some ways I was. I just, well,

I just wanted to put it out there as food for thought.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think that is just so wonderful that you and your brother have a chance to get

to know each other as adults; I hope you both can get past the

splitting/competitive thing that your nada forced you into as kids/teens and

maybe even become good friends.

That is what happened to me and my little Sister. I'm so grateful that my

Sister has a sweet nature and a loving heart, and she didn't wind up hating me

and still even wanted to be friends with me after we became adults.

I wouldn't have wanted to be friends with me; I was the mostly-golden child when

we were kids/teens, yet I was horribly jealous of my little Sister and didn't

want anything to do with her when we were growing up. I'm ashamed of the way I

treated her when we were youngsters; I was mean and rejecting.

My little Sister is a Saint.

I'm glad that she's given me a second chance to be the kind of emotionally

supportive, loving and protective big sister I should have been all those

decades ago.

I wish that for all the KO sibs out there, I hope it can happen for you guys

too; if pd isn't intruding into the sibs' lives, then, maybe reconciling with

sibs is possible.

-Annie

>

> Holly, I totally understand that guilt. I participated in the same blackening

of my brother, the middle child. However, recently, on Christmas, he called me

and actually asked " Why don't we talk? " And we had our first real conversation,

possibly ever. I look forward to healing myself and our relationship and having

the brother I didn't really get to have because of nada's splitting.

>

> AManda

[Guest guest]

I grew up mostly golden. I took pride in the fact that I was the only one who

could talk nada down, or get her to relent when she was being unreasonable about

someone/something.

I learned to ignore 95% of the crazy stuff she would say--I didn't realize I was

doing this until years later. I denied my own needs for hers. I, too, listened

to her sexual complaints about my dad when I was still a child. I told myself

this meant I was so mature and important for her to share such stuff with me.

It was easier to just go along with whatever she wanted, because I never knew

what to choose, or that I could choose.

Pity the golden child who never knows how much they have been tricked into

abdicating their life for their nada/fada.

>

> I just wanted to contribute to the board this thought:

>

> It seems many people often think that the child who is split good has it easy,

but as a child who was split good until I became an adult, I have to say that's

just not so. Just because you are not the object of nada's hate and fury, does

not mean it doesn't affect you. Also, even as " the golden child " there is still

a lot of abuse. Nada tries to dress you the way she wants--basically you are

still an extension of her, even if you're the good child. But since you know

you're the good child, and could quickly become the bad child, you do whatever

it takes to remain the good child. So you wear what she likes. Her favorite

color is your favorite color.

>

> Nada treats you like a replacement for the best friend and mother she never

had. She tells you intimate details about her relationship with your father and

expects you to give her advice, even though you are oly 16, never had a

boyfriend, and DUH, her daughter. If you ever exhibit independence, nada's fury

towards you is 10x as towards your black sheep brother, because you are the

" golden child " , because she has sacrificed everything for you, because she has

given you all the things she never had--whether you want them or not.

>

> So before we judge the " good children " , our siblings who are painted white,

please remember that in many ways they are indoctrinated and suffering from a

Stockholm type syndrome. They/we developed survival skills to keep nada from

hurting them. Sometimes I feel like we talk about our siblings as being painted

white or black like they have some kind of choice in the matter. It's not their

fault. If my brothers blamed me because nada painted me white for so long, I

think it would seriously hurt me emotionally, especially because I suffered so

much abuse from her, and I am only now realizing how devastating being raised by

her was/is to me psychologically.

>

> I am not saying at all to give into flying monnkeys or anything, because

golden children can certainly be them. I know in some ways I was. I just, well,

I just wanted to put it out there as food for thought.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I was black from the moment I came home from the hospital as an infant.

And my brother was golden. There really wasn't any flexibility in the roles.

My bada seemed to enjoy his role as my superior and loved to torment and

torture me. he probably used Nada's behavior as a model.

But you are right, I had nothing really to lose when I cut ties. I had not

one good memory, not one positive feeling and not one whisp of regret. On

the other hand, I also lost my relationship with my dad as a result because

he chose nada over me. And that was really hard.I mean really really really

really hard.

I think that the all bad child really only has 2 options as they mature.

They can either embrace the bad role and delve into drugs, alcohol and

delinquency. Or they can go the perfectionist route and try to prove their

judgemental, hateful parent wrong. I went the perfectionist route. Near

perfect grades, extra curricular, involved in performing arts, college

scholarships and as I grew older - a nearly impecible professional history.

The way it feels is that one bad mark and you will be eradicated from the

face of the earth. There is no room for error and mistakes are just plain

unacceptable. I really have never figured out how to have fun. I'm confused

even by the concept. You can imagine that when I was sexually harassed at a

job and left without notice in grave shame, I nearly didn't recover from

that experience. I think I'm past it now, after 5 years of a job that is

beneath my abilities, drinking too much alcohol and a shit load of

anti-depressants and therapy.

Working on it. . .

>

>

> I grew up mostly golden. I took pride in the fact that I was the only one

> who could talk nada down, or get her to relent when she was being

> unreasonable about someone/something.

>

> I learned to ignore 95% of the crazy stuff she would say--I didn't realize

> I was doing this until years later. I denied my own needs for hers. I, too,

> listened to her sexual complaints about my dad when I was still a child. I

> told myself this meant I was so mature and important for her to share such

> stuff with me.

>

> It was easier to just go along with whatever she wanted, because I never

> knew what to choose, or that I could choose.

>

> Pity the golden child who never knows how much they have been tricked into

> abdicating their life for their nada/fada.

>

>

>

> >

> > I just wanted to contribute to the board this thought:

> >

> > It seems many people often think that the child who is split good has it

> easy, but as a child who was split good until I became an adult, I have to

> say that's just not so. Just because you are not the object of nada's hate

> and fury, does not mean it doesn't affect you. Also, even as " the golden

> child " there is still a lot of abuse. Nada tries to dress you the way she

> wants--basically you are still an extension of her, even if you're the good

> child. But since you know you're the good child, and could quickly become

> the bad child, you do whatever it takes to remain the good child. So you

> wear what she likes. Her favorite color is your favorite color.

> >

> > Nada treats you like a replacement for the best friend and mother she

> never had. She tells you intimate details about her relationship with your

> father and expects you to give her advice, even though you are oly 16, never

> had a boyfriend, and DUH, her daughter. If you ever exhibit independence,

> nada's fury towards you is 10x as towards your black sheep brother, because

> you are the " golden child " , because she has sacrificed everything for you,

> because she has given you all the things she never had--whether you want

> them or not.

> >

> > So before we judge the " good children " , our siblings who are painted

> white, please remember that in many ways they are indoctrinated and

> suffering from a Stockholm type syndrome. They/we developed survival skills

> to keep nada from hurting them. Sometimes I feel like we talk about our

> siblings as being painted white or black like they have some kind of choice

> in the matter. It's not their fault. If my brothers blamed me because nada

> painted me white for so long, I think it would seriously hurt me

> emotionally, especially because I suffered so much abuse from her, and I am

> only now realizing how devastating being raised by her was/is to me

> psychologically.

> >

> > I am not saying at all to give into flying monnkeys or anything, because

> golden children can certainly be them. I know in some ways I was. I just,

> well, I just wanted to put it out there as food for thought.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, you just described my upbringing.

I was good, my brother was bad.

I was a very good girl.

My parents had a guest come over for dinner one day and he asked what my brother

and I were like. Mind you, I WAS IN THE SAME ROOM when this conversation took

place, sitting next to my father on the same couch. My father said, " well, the

boy is a handful. But the girl is very docile. "

I felt like he was talking about a pair of dogs he owned.

Or livestock.

I agree. For me, a lot of guilt, shame, and fear was involved from being chosen

as the good child, the golden one.

I was definitely a flying monkey. Oh man, was I ever! but my brother never,

ever made me feel bad about it....which made me feel worse!

Fiona

>

> I just wanted to contribute to the board this thought:

>

> It seems many people often think that the child who is split good has it easy,

but as a child who was split good until I became an adult, I have to say that's

just not so. Just because you are not the object of nada's hate and fury, does

not mean it doesn't affect you. Also, even as " the golden child " there is still

a lot of abuse. Nada tries to dress you the way she wants--basically you are

still an extension of her, even if you're the good child. But since you know

you're the good child, and could quickly become the bad child, you do whatever

it takes to remain the good child. So you wear what she likes. Her favorite

color is your favorite color.

>

> Nada treats you like a replacement for the best friend and mother she never

had. She tells you intimate details about her relationship with your father and

expects you to give her advice, even though you are oly 16, never had a

boyfriend, and DUH, her daughter. If you ever exhibit independence, nada's fury

towards you is 10x as towards your black sheep brother, because you are the

" golden child " , because she has sacrificed everything for you, because she has

given you all the things she never had--whether you want them or not.

>

> So before we judge the " good children " , our siblings who are painted white,

please remember that in many ways they are indoctrinated and suffering from a

Stockholm type syndrome. They/we developed survival skills to keep nada from

hurting them. Sometimes I feel like we talk about our siblings as being painted

white or black like they have some kind of choice in the matter. It's not their

fault. If my brothers blamed me because nada painted me white for so long, I

think it would seriously hurt me emotionally, especially because I suffered so

much abuse from her, and I am only now realizing how devastating being raised by

her was/is to me psychologically.

>

> I am not saying at all to give into flying monnkeys or anything, because

golden children can certainly be them. I know in some ways I was. I just, well,

I just wanted to put it out there as food for thought.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

[ Growing up a golden child is growing up an emotional hostage with a gun to

your head.]

Amen. It's true.

And I see it now, as a recovering people pleaser, how I used to behave when I

was afraid someone wouldn't like what I said or did. I was so indoctrinated to

know how to act. I wasn't just a flying monkey, I could dance, too!

Fiona

> >

> > I just wanted to contribute to the board this thought:

> >

> > It seems many people often think that the child who is split good has it

easy, but as a child who was split good until I became an adult, I have to say

that's just not so. Just because you are not the object of nada's hate and fury,

does not mean it doesn't affect you. Also, even as " the golden child " there is

still a lot of abuse. Nada tries to dress you the way she wants--basically you

are still an extension of her, even if you're the good child. But since you know

you're the good child, and could quickly become the bad child, you do whatever

it takes to remain the good child. So you wear what she likes. Her favorite

color is your favorite color.

> >

> > Nada treats you like a replacement for the best friend and mother she never

had. She tells you intimate details about her relationship with your father and

expects you to give her advice, even though you are oly 16, never had a

boyfriend, and DUH, her daughter. If you ever exhibit independence, nada's fury

towards you is 10x as towards your black sheep brother, because you are the

" golden child " , because she has sacrificed everything for you, because she has

given you all the things she never had--whether you want them or not.

> >

> > So before we judge the " good children " , our siblings who are painted white,

please remember that in many ways they are indoctrinated and suffering from a

Stockholm type syndrome. They/we developed survival skills to keep nada from

hurting them. Sometimes I feel like we talk about our siblings as being painted

white or black like they have some kind of choice in the matter. It's not their

fault. If my brothers blamed me because nada painted me white for so long, I

think it would seriously hurt me emotionally, especially because I suffered so

much abuse from her, and I am only now realizing how devastating being raised by

her was/is to me psychologically.

> >

> > I am not saying at all to give into flying monnkeys or anything, because

golden children can certainly be them. I know in some ways I was. I just, well,

I just wanted to put it out there as food for thought.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

[Of course, my eldest brother is now the " golden child " , a split that happened

the second he had children. He can do no wrong, and now I am painted black.]

Again, me too! lol

For me, my demotion from golden child happened when I found this group, as a

matter of fact. It was a couple of years after my father died. He was my

mother's enforcer and if I didn't step in line with her, he would shame me and

flat-out reject me. It was very painful. But once he was gone after a couple of

years, being here and in therapy gave me the courage to pull away from her big

time. My brother took my place.

My mother even one day articulated it by saying, when she needed advice about

something, " well, your brother says I should do blah blah...you're part of THEIR

family now (meaning my husband's family); you're not really one of us anymore. "

It felt like we were in a playground.

And I really, really felt hurt. Part of me craved my golden child status when I

was loved and praised and pointed to as a model of a good girl. But I just

grieved that I never really had any status and what I had was weird manipulation

by my parents.

Fiona

> > >

> > > I just wanted to contribute to the board this thought:

> > >

> > > It seems many people often think that the child who is split good has it

easy, but as a child who was split good until I became an adult, I have to say

that's just not so. Just because you are not the object of nada's hate and fury,

does not mean it doesn't affect you. Also, even as " the golden child " there is

still a lot of abuse. Nada tries to dress you the way she wants--basically you

are still an extension of her, even if you're the good child. But since you know

you're the good child, and could quickly become the bad child, you do whatever

it takes to remain the good child. So you wear what she likes. Her favorite

color is your favorite color.

> > >

> > > Nada treats you like a replacement for the best friend and mother she

never had. She tells you intimate details about her relationship with your

father and expects you to give her advice, even though you are oly 16, never had

a boyfriend, and DUH, her daughter. If you ever exhibit independence, nada's

fury towards you is 10x as towards your black sheep brother, because you are the

" golden child " , because she has sacrificed everything for you, because she has

given you all the things she never had--whether you want them or not.

> > >

> > > So before we judge the " good children " , our siblings who are painted

white, please remember that in many ways they are indoctrinated and suffering

from a Stockholm type syndrome. They/we developed survival skills to keep nada

from hurting them. Sometimes I feel like we talk about our siblings as being

painted white or black like they have some kind of choice in the matter. It's

not their fault. If my brothers blamed me because nada painted me white for so

long, I think it would seriously hurt me emotionally, especially because I

suffered so much abuse from her, and I am only now realizing how devastating

being raised by her was/is to me psychologically.

> > >

> > > I am not saying at all to give into flying monnkeys or anything, because

golden children can certainly be them. I know in some ways I was. I just, well,

I just wanted to put it out there as food for thought.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

GS - I think I'm doing the perfect route TBH. 4.0 nursing student... who am

I trying to prove it to? Nada who I'm NC with? Maybe myself since my self

esteem is shot to hell. I don't know, but I'm hoping to go back to school

next month (have my 5 week post-op checkup in about an hour & appointments

at the school tomorrow) and I'm kind of scared to put that kind of pressure

on myself again. I have always said it wasn't about the grades, as long as

I did my best. But was I honest with myself? I don't know. I still find

myself saying that. But I'd like to be able to let go of that 4.0 to be

honest! It would take off a HELL OF A LOT OF PRESSURE. Maybe instead of a

95% or better over all (an A) in this next class, I'll eek in at a 92 - 94

which is an A- just to take that pressure off me LOL.

As for being the golden child vs. the all bad child - I was both for a long

time, then eventually the all bad child 99% of the time. I was also an only

child with the exception of step siblings. My older step sister is now

nada's flying monkey. It's sad & funny to me that she is the flying monkey

considering how many awful things nada said about her & her siblings behind

their backs. That's when I would occasionally become the golden child again

as an older child... when step siblings screwed up - or at least when nada

perceived them to have screwed up. I always hated those conversations... how

she felt about family being " blood " (and they're " not blood " )... and how she

would sneak extra presents to me around Christmas because she felt that I

was " getting ripped off because we have to split our money between 4 kids,

and 3 are HIS " . Oh my gawd!!! But other than that, yep... black sheep all

the way.

Thank goodness for NC. Yes, it comes with a whole new set of trials &

issues, but it's better for me. Though I still wonder who I'm trying to

prove myself to... like I said, probably to myself.

Mia

[Guest guest]

DW,

That is a very good question. To tell you the truth, if your split good brother

hasn't come to you to discuss this yet, and is it a flying monkey, then I think

you just have to set boundaries for him as well. When my nada switched me to the

all-bad child, and my eldest brother became a flying monkey, I had to set

boundaries for him and my SIL. Part of what has allowed me to renew my

relationship with my other brother, the black sheep, is that I gained first hand

experience of what he grew up with, and I also knew that I grew up with her too,

but a different kind of abuse. So he and I have slowly become brother and sister

again over many years.

I know it hurts that your brother wants to protect your mother--and I absolutely

think you should have boundaries with him too if he is behaving like a flying

monkey. The point of my original post was to say that, for example in your

situation, it's possible he spied on you because that was part of his golden

child endoctrination and what he had to do to survive what your nada was doing

to him, in pitting him against you.

I have actually only had one conversation with my brother about nada, and that

was when her big meltdown happened at Christmas. It's hard for me to talk about

everything that meltdown brought out, even with my therapist, and I think once I

can work through some of it in therapy, I will have more conversations with him

about it. But honestly, until nada seeks help, I am remaining LC with her. And I

have no need to discuss what I treatment I think she needs with my brother. We

don't need to talk about that. We need to be siblings and talk about us.

>

> Your post is interesting to me. I was the black sheep and my brother was

charged

> with spying on me, until I left home at 18. It has taken many, many years for

us

> to build trust again. When my sister-in-law said " hi Mom " on her wedding day,

> my mother said " I am not your mother, and you are not my daughter. " Okay. So

> my brother has kind of mentally checked out...it's a problem my sister-in-law

> has mentioned repeatedly. I would like for him to understand that I need to

> keep away from my mother, for my own sanity. I need to be able to set limits

> and express myself. He seems to want to protect her, which is very insulting

to

> me. Guess I should be surprised his experience was different than mine ...so

> here is my question... how do you engage the support of your family while at

the

> same time letting them know it's impossible for you to continue to interact

with

> your own mother. I am really curious about how you first started talking

about

> your nada experience with your siblings, especially when you have had

different

> experiences. Sorry if this was already a topic that was posted, but would

> appreciate ideas from other list members. ~D

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Sent: Sun, February 13, 2011 7:07:43 PM

> Subject: As a child who was split good most of the time

>

>

> I just wanted to contribute to the board this thought:

>

> It seems many people often think that the child who is split good has it easy,

> but as a child who was split good until I became an adult, I have to say

that's

> just not so. Just because you are not the object of nada's hate and fury, does

> not mean it doesn't affect you. Also, even as " the golden child " there is

still

> a lot of abuse. Nada tries to dress you the way she wants--basically you are

> still an extension of her, even if you're the good child. But since you know

> you're the good child, and could quickly become the bad child, you do whatever

> it takes to remain the good child. So you wear what she likes. Her favorite

> color is your favorite color.

>

>

> Nada treats you like a replacement for the best friend and mother she never

> had. She tells you intimate details about her relationship with your father

and

> expects you to give her advice, even though you are oly 16, never had a

> boyfriend, and DUH, her daughter. If you ever exhibit independence, nada's

fury

> towards you is 10x as towards your black sheep brother, because you are the

> " golden child " , because she has sacrificed everything for you, because she has

> given you all the things she never had--whether you want them or not.

>

>

> So before we judge the " good children " , our siblings who are painted white,

> please remember that in many ways they are indoctrinated and suffering from a

> Stockholm type syndrome. They/we developed survival skills to keep nada from

> hurting them. Sometimes I feel like we talk about our siblings as being

painted

> white or black like they have some kind of choice in the matter. It's not

their

> fault. If my brothers blamed me because nada painted me white for so long, I

> think it would seriously hurt me emotionally, especially because I suffered so

> much abuse from her, and I am only now realizing how devastating being raised

by

> her was/is to me psychologically.

>

>

> I am not saying at all to give into flying monnkeys or anything, because

golden

> children can certainly be them. I know in some ways I was. I just, well, I

just

> wanted to put it out there as food for thought.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" And I have no need to discuss what I treatment I think she needs with my

brother. We don't need to talk about that. We need to be siblings and talk about

us " .

This comment has made me realise how the BP parents behaviour actively stops

there being any relationships between the siblings....

how strange and new/novel is the thought that we could 'talk about us'...I have

tried to start relating recently with my youngest brother (was the golden child

but was recently split black) but it is hard to create a new relationship that

does not refer to the abusive parents...with my brother who i have known all my

life but have never really known....hard stuff...and who knows if he will want

to become golden again and turn away...there's the risk of working out if there

are any family members left that it is possible to have some LC with...and for

how long...

[Guest guest]

As with most things, there is some risk involved with reaching out to a sib in

hopes of getting to know one another as individual, unique adults, separately

from anything to do with the pd parents. It takes time and effort to develop

trust.

It took Sister and me years to really get to know each other well and trust each

other, as adults.

Somehow, it became more important to both Sister and me to prioritize our bond

with each other over our relationship with nada. We teamed up with each other

and that broke nada's power position over us; nada could no longer play Sister

and me against each other.

I think this could only happen because both Sister and I dodged the Cluster B

personality disorder bullet.

We were both damaged by being raised by a pd mother and enabling,

non-confrontational dishrag dad; we were pretty badly damaged, actually; but we

didn't " catch " bpd.

I think Sister and I were lucky enough to have been born with relatively

average, normal neurological connections in our brains and average, normal

temperamental resiliency. As the mostly golden and enmeshed child I " caught " a

lot more bpd " flea " behaviors from nada, but, as I reached my 30's I began to

realize how counterproductive, irrational, mean, hurtful and freaking insane

those behaviors are, and I consciously sought to NOT be like nada as much as

possible.

So, anyway. I hope other KO sibs can become friends with each other as adults.

Normal, mentally healthy parents encourage their children to be friends with

each other, loyal to each other and to help one another.

-Annie

>

>

> " And I have no need to discuss what I treatment I think she needs with my

brother. We don't need to talk about that. We need to be siblings and talk about

us " .

>

> This comment has made me realise how the BP parents behaviour actively stops

there being any relationships between the siblings....

>

> how strange and new/novel is the thought that we could 'talk about us'...I

have tried to start relating recently with my youngest brother (was the golden

child but was recently split black) but it is hard to create a new relationship

that does not refer to the abusive parents...with my brother who i have known

all my life but have never really known....hard stuff...and who knows if he will

want to become golden again and turn away...there's the risk of working out if

there are any family members left that it is possible to have some LC with...and

for how long...

>

[Guest guest]

Annie said - [ " Normal, mentally healthy parents encourage their children to

be friends with each other, loyal to each other and to help one another. " ]

Sometimes nadas only do this when it serves their needs or proves their

point. Example: All my life, step sis = bad bad bad according to nada.

Then one day out of the blue in an e-mail argument nada & I were having,

she replies with " WHY CAN'T YOU JUST BE FRIENDS WITH STEP SIS?! " Talk about

being hit with something like that out of no where (the argument had nothing

to do with step sis, at all!)

Granted, I never did see step sis as being all bad, never. However,

relationships are two way streets... why suddenly was nada trying to get me

to try & befriend step-sis when step sis had never made an effort to

befriend me? I have theories on this, regarding me & my now exhusband

spending more time with his (relatively normal) family than with nada, and

nada spent a lot of time with step sis & her family. But again, if step sis

had all kinds of stuff going on (b.day parties for kids, family dinners,

etc) that I would hear about from nada, why did step sis never invite me?

My hunch is that step sis likely asked nada to invite me, but nada did not

pass on that information. Maybe one day I'll know that truth on that one,

but I'm not counting on it.

Now step sis is nada's flying monkey. Oh joy of joys (not). Even more

reason for me to likely never know the truth. Want nothing to do with nada

or her flying monkies.

Mia

>

[Guest guest]

DW - I don't think you can. Sometimes when you let Nada go, the whole sick

system has to go with it. That is the case with me. Bye bye to everyone in a

25 mile radius of where I grew up. They are all flying monkeys.

>

>

> Annie said - [ " Normal, mentally healthy parents encourage their children

> to

> be friends with each other, loyal to each other and to help one another. " ]

>

> Sometimes nadas only do this when it serves their needs or proves their

> point. Example: All my life, step sis = bad bad bad according to nada.

> Then one day out of the blue in an e-mail argument nada & I were having,

> she replies with " WHY CAN'T YOU JUST BE FRIENDS WITH STEP SIS?! " Talk about

> being hit with something like that out of no where (the argument had

> nothing

> to do with step sis, at all!)

>

> Granted, I never did see step sis as being all bad, never. However,

> relationships are two way streets... why suddenly was nada trying to get me

> to try & befriend step-sis when step sis had never made an effort to

> befriend me? I have theories on this, regarding me & my now exhusband

> spending more time with his (relatively normal) family than with nada, and

> nada spent a lot of time with step sis & her family. But again, if step sis

> had all kinds of stuff going on (b.day parties for kids, family dinners,

> etc) that I would hear about from nada, why did step sis never invite me?

> My hunch is that step sis likely asked nada to invite me, but nada did not

> pass on that information. Maybe one day I'll know that truth on that one,

> but I'm not counting on it.

>

> Now step sis is nada's flying monkey. Oh joy of joys (not). Even more

> reason for me to likely never know the truth. Want nothing to do with nada

> or her flying monkies.

>

> Mia

>

>

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is really helpful! and I appreciate the time you took to respond. When we

were children, we didn't know what was going on. Now that we're adults, we do.

I agree, it should be something I address directly with my brother now and find

out what it was like for him. Siblings with completely different experiences is

really an eye-opener. BTW my own mother has been in therapy her whole life and

it doesn't seem to have made much of a difference. She is as unpredictable as

ever. ~D

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 1:17:56 PM

Subject: Re: As a child who was split good most of the time

DW,

That is a very good question. To tell you the truth, if your split good brother

hasn't come to you to discuss this yet, and is it a flying monkey, then I think

you just have to set boundaries for him as well. When my nada switched me to the

all-bad child, and my eldest brother became a flying monkey, I had to set

boundaries for him and my SIL. Part of what has allowed me to renew my

relationship with my other brother, the black sheep, is that I gained first hand

experience of what he grew up with, and I also knew that I grew up with her too,

but a different kind of abuse. So he and I have slowly become brother and sister

again over many years.

I know it hurts that your brother wants to protect your mother--and I absolutely

think you should have boundaries with him too if he is behaving like a flying

monkey. The point of my original post was to say that, for example in your

situation, it's possible he spied on you because that was part of his golden

child endoctrination and what he had to do to survive what your nada was doing

to him, in pitting him against you.

I have actually only had one conversation with my brother about nada, and that

was when her big meltdown happened at Christmas. It's hard for me to talk about

everything that meltdown brought out, even with my therapist, and I think once I

can work through some of it in therapy, I will have more conversations with him

about it. But honestly, until nada seeks help, I am remaining LC with her. And I

have no need to discuss what I treatment I think she needs with my brother. We

don't need to talk about that. We need to be siblings and talk about us.

>

> Your post is interesting to me. I was the black sheep and my brother was

>charged

>

> with spying on me, until I left home at 18. It has taken many, many years for

>us

>

> to build trust again. When my sister-in-law said " hi Mom " on her wedding day,

> my mother said " I am not your mother, and you are not my daughter. " Okay. So

> my brother has kind of mentally checked out...it's a problem my sister-in-law

> has mentioned repeatedly. I would like for him to understand that I need to

> keep away from my mother, for my own sanity. I need to be able to set limits

> and express myself. He seems to want to protect her, which is very insulting

>to

>

> me. Guess I should be surprised his experience was different than mine ...so

> here is my question... how do you engage the support of your family while at

>the

>

> same time letting them know it's impossible for you to continue to interact

>with

>

> your own mother. I am really curious about how you first started talking

about

>

> your nada experience with your siblings, especially when you have had

different

>

> experiences. Sorry if this was already a topic that was posted, but would

> appreciate ideas from other list members. ~D

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Sent: Sun, February 13, 2011 7:07:43 PM

> Subject: As a child who was split good most of the time

>

>

> I just wanted to contribute to the board this thought:

>

> It seems many people often think that the child who is split good has it easy,

> but as a child who was split good until I became an adult, I have to say

that's

>

> just not so. Just because you are not the object of nada's hate and fury, does

> not mean it doesn't affect you. Also, even as " the golden child " there is

still

>

> a lot of abuse. Nada tries to dress you the way she wants--basically you are

> still an extension of her, even if you're the good child. But since you know

> you're the good child, and could quickly become the bad child, you do whatever

> it takes to remain the good child. So you wear what she likes. Her favorite

> color is your favorite color.

>

>

> Nada treats you like a replacement for the best friend and mother she never

> had. She tells you intimate details about her relationship with your father

and

>

> expects you to give her advice, even though you are oly 16, never had a

> boyfriend, and DUH, her daughter. If you ever exhibit independence, nada's

fury

>

> towards you is 10x as towards your black sheep brother, because you are the

> " golden child " , because she has sacrificed everything for you, because she has

> given you all the things she never had--whether you want them or not.

>

>

> So before we judge the " good children " , our siblings who are painted white,

> please remember that in many ways they are indoctrinated and suffering from a

> Stockholm type syndrome. They/we developed survival skills to keep nada from

> hurting them. Sometimes I feel like we talk about our siblings as being

painted

>

> white or black like they have some kind of choice in the matter. It's not

their

>

> fault. If my brothers blamed me because nada painted me white for so long, I

> think it would seriously hurt me emotionally, especially because I suffered so

> much abuse from her, and I am only now realizing how devastating being raised

>by

>

> her was/is to me psychologically.

>

>

> I am not saying at all to give into flying monnkeys or anything, because

golden

>

> children can certainly be them. I know in some ways I was. I just, well, I

just

>

> wanted to put it out there as food for thought.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You know about that emotional hostage thing - I've found it so hard to find a

therapist who GETS that. They can understand outward negative behavior, but not

what growing up in a state of emotional coercion can do to a child. Sure the

child that capitulates doesn't appear to be abused, but what did they surrender?

Their very selves.

>

> [ Growing up a golden child is growing up an emotional hostage with a gun to

your head.]

>

> Amen. It's true.

> And I see it now, as a recovering people pleaser, how I used to behave when I

was afraid someone wouldn't like what I said or did. I was so indoctrinated to

know how to act. I wasn't just a flying monkey, I could dance, too!

>

> Fiona

>

[Guest guest]

I apologize to respond late to this, but I have been away from things for a

little while. Specifically, I had surgery on Friday and Thursday the doctor's

office finally told me that I needed a ride... You'll guess the only person who

was available and who I have been NC with for over a month... My Nada.. You

guessed right. I have been here at her house since the surgery. That's a whole

nother story for a future topic....anyhoo!

I was split good. I kind of always have been, because I learned early if I

lived to make her look good and make her life easier, I'd avoid her voracious

temper. (It never really worked, but I tried) My older brother who also suffered

physical and emotional abuse has blocked out all memories of childhood and isn't

necessarily a black sheep, but kind of is. Younger brother is most likely

considered our black sheep. As I was reading this topic's responses I was

brought back to a moment pre-NC. I have always told my younger brother's

business to my family. Something in my brain told me it was because we were a

" close family " . I stopped telling pre-recent NC. I don't remember specifically

being told to spy, but I have been a spy all my life and it feels disgusting!

My younger brother lives like a gypsy, has 4 children, smokes his share of weed

and accomplishes what he wants, when he wants to. He, in his own way, tells

people's business too. I cannot

talk to him about any past issues. He has suffered more emotional than

physical abuse. And it shows by the way he lives his life.

I am going to wrap all this up and say....I want to be able to talk to my

brothers about our childhood and the real deal about my Nada after she dies. I

am too afraid to do it now. My older brother has no common sense and would most

likely go back to her to ask her questions. I literally believe she abused him

to the point of brain damage. He has serious difficulty with emotional

regulation and synthesizing information. My younger brother..I don't know what

he would do with the information. I think he would go back to her, as well.

In the last month of NC, I have been trying to skirt the edges of shoring up

family support/contact, while remaining NC. I just allowed them all to believe

I was still in contact, because I didn't care what she had told them. It was

working out well. Now I am back to square one. She has been kind to me during

this time. I know I am being hoovered, but I can't fight it. I think *putting

on my combat gear* I am headed back in, with reinforcements!

Thanks for posting this and giving me a chance to reply!

Latasha

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

The fish are biting.

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[Guest guest]

, thank you so much for this. The second full paragraph, especially,

summed up my relationship with my mother as well as if you'd been there watching

my childhood!

My mother could be so hurtful if I disagreed with her or even questioned her

that I went through most of high school and a lot of college never participating

in class discussions, because I feared saying the " wrong " thing. I still worry,

sometimes, that if I make a mistake or have a bad moment, people will find that

one error indicative of my entire personality, as if good people have to be

perfect all the time. I have trouble standing up for myself when people are rude

or hurtful to me, because I doubt my own perspective and assume I must have done

something to merit poor treatment.

Being the " all-good " child turns us into adults who often cannot voice our needs

and desires even when we are able to pinpoint them, and I think most of us

probably walk around feeling like frauds most of the time because of this.

-Jgar

>

> I just wanted to contribute to the board this thought:

>

> It seems many people often think that the child who is split good has it easy,

but as a child who was split good until I became an adult, I have to say that's

just not so. Just because you are not the object of nada's hate and fury, does

not mean it doesn't affect you. Also, even as " the golden child " there is still

a lot of abuse. Nada tries to dress you the way she wants--basically you are

still an extension of her, even if you're the good child. But since you know

you're the good child, and could quickly become the bad child, you do whatever

it takes to remain the good child. So you wear what she likes. Her favorite

color is your favorite color.

>

> Nada treats you like a replacement for the best friend and mother she never

had. She tells you intimate details about her relationship with your father and

expects you to give her advice, even though you are oly 16, never had a

boyfriend, and DUH, her daughter. If you ever exhibit independence, nada's fury

towards you is 10x as towards your black sheep brother, because you are the

" golden child " , because she has sacrificed everything for you, because she has

given you all the things she never had--whether you want them or not.

>

> So before we judge the " good children " , our siblings who are painted white,

please remember that in many ways they are indoctrinated and suffering from a

Stockholm type syndrome. They/we developed survival skills to keep nada from

hurting them. Sometimes I feel like we talk about our siblings as being painted

white or black like they have some kind of choice in the matter. It's not their

fault. If my brothers blamed me because nada painted me white for so long, I

think it would seriously hurt me emotionally, especially because I suffered so

much abuse from her, and I am only now realizing how devastating being raised by

her was/is to me psychologically.

>

> I am not saying at all to give into flying monnkeys or anything, because

golden children can certainly be them. I know in some ways I was. I just, well,

I just wanted to put it out there as food for thought.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

D,

I tried to have open and honest discourse with my sister who lives in another

state after Nada's suicide attempt four years ago, but sadly got nowhere. She is

so deep in denial that she is drowning. I finally just gave up.

Amazingly, I was always golden and she was often estranged so you would think

she would have been more receptive, but instead she has this idealized idea of

MOTHER.

Because this lies between us it's unlikely we will ever have more than a

superficial relationship.

Of course this is just my situation and I don't mean to imply in any way that

others will meet with the same resistance from siblings.

Em

> I am really curious about how you first started talking about

> > your nada experience with your siblings, especially when you have had

different

> > experiences. Sorry if this was already a topic that was posted, but would

> > appreciate ideas from other list members. ~D

[Guest guest]

" as if good people have to be perfect all the time. I have trouble standing

up for myself when people are rude or hurtful to me, because I doubt my own

perspective and assume I must have done something to merit poor treatment. "

Exactly exactly exactly

>

>

> D,

> I tried to have open and honest discourse with my sister who lives in

> another state after Nada's suicide attempt four years ago, but sadly got

> nowhere. She is so deep in denial that she is drowning. I finally just gave

> up.

> Amazingly, I was always golden and she was often estranged so you would

> think she would have been more receptive, but instead she has this idealized

> idea of MOTHER.

> Because this lies between us it's unlikely we will ever have more than a

> superficial relationship.

> Of course this is just my situation and I don't mean to imply in any way

> that others will meet with the same resistance from siblings.

>

> Em

>

>

>

>

> > I am really curious about how you first started talking about

> > > your nada experience with your siblings, especially when you have had

> different

> > > experiences. Sorry if this was already a topic that was posted, but

> would

> > > appreciate ideas from other list members. ~D

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Same here. It has been such a harmful thing to me. I also blame myself for

everything that happens whether or not I have any control over it. If someone

doesn't call me back from an interview, it MUST be something that I did....not

that it could have been that they are busy etc......

To get at me, my Nada didn't send a Valentine card to my daughter who has

autism. that is about all she does as a grandmother. my nada mad at me said

that she sent an email valentine but when i checked my daughter's email there

was nothing from her. it finally illustrated just how sick and cruel that they

can be. (I had set some boundaries and wasn't taking her incessant phone calls).

my nada would not stand up for me to my grandnada but i will be damned if i will

do the same as her. she can do anything to me but i will not stand for cruelty

to my children. so i did survive....i am healing and getting better...if i can

just believe it.

 

Felicia Ward

Remember that people often have different perceptions of the same reality. You

can both be right, and no one has to be wrong, if each of you is willing to let

the other person have his or her perceptions and if both of you are willing to

compromise. 

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Tue, February 15, 2011 10:23:08 AM

Subject: Re: Re: As a child who was split good most of the

time

" as if good people have to be perfect all the time. I have trouble standing

up for myself when people are rude or hurtful to me, because I doubt my own

perspective and assume I must have done something to merit poor treatment. "

Exactly exactly exactly

>

>

> D,

> I tried to have open and honest discourse with my sister who lives in

> another state after Nada's suicide attempt four years ago, but sadly got

> nowhere. She is so deep in denial that she is drowning. I finally just gave

> up.

> Amazingly, I was always golden and she was often estranged so you would

> think she would have been more receptive, but instead she has this idealized

> idea of MOTHER.

> Because this lies between us it's unlikely we will ever have more than a

> superficial relationship.

> Of course this is just my situation and I don't mean to imply in any way

> that others will meet with the same resistance from siblings.

>

> Em

>

>

>

>

> > I am really curious about how you first started talking about

> > > your nada experience with your siblings, especially when you have had

> different

> > > experiences. Sorry if this was already a topic that was posted, but

> would

> > > appreciate ideas from other list members. ~D

>

>

>