Her Idea of What it Means to be THE MOTHER

[Guest guest]

A few years ago, I belonged to the KO message board, The Nook, and when that

board changed, I printed out all of my posts so that I would have a record of my

thoughts and feelings at the time (I had just found out NADA was BPD). I go

through them periodically to remind myself that I'm not crazy, she really did

those things, and it was legitimately traumatic.

Reading through them this morning, I noticed a theme about Nada's justifications

for her behavior. Now, I believe that a loving, supportive, healthy mother is

worth " a price above rubies, " but there were many times when Nada shat all over

the concept of being a mother, to the point where I'm fairly certain I never

want children, partly because I don't want to be a " mother. "

Here are some things Nada, when she was in full BPD-mode, thought being THE

MOTHER entitled her to:

1.) Mothers are entitled to not only your unconditional love, but also your

unconditional obedience, even if they are asking you to do something

embarrassing, dangerous, or illegal. Mothers are entitled to unconditional

forgiveness no matter what their behavior. You, as the child, are not at liberty

to mirror their own abusive behavior back to them; " Son " and " Daughter " are

inferior titles and not deserving of equal esteem with " Mother " .

2.) The instant you become a Mother, superior wisdom and authority are conferred

upon you, such that any judgment of the child's, no matter what the child's age

or intellectual ability, is subject to approval by the Mother.

A.) This is partly because as The Mother, you know your child " better

than she knows herself, " so it's really all in her best interest. She can have

no experience that is outside your understanding, because she's not really a

separate person.

B.) In the event that The Mother's judgment should ever be erroneous,

this is because she was not provided with proper information from the child.

C.) You will only understand Mother's motivations and actions when you

yourself become A Mother, and superior wisdom and authority are conferred on

you.*

3.) Mothers are not care-takers; they are rulers of a kind; ie authorized to

make rules and inflict punishments, but to only bestow affection when they see

fit.

A.) At all other times, affection and nurturing must be lavished on The

Mother by the currently designated all-good child, no matter how young the child

may be or how inappropriate the situation.

B.) Any physical or emotional care you give to the Mother is really the

least you can do, considering the great favor the Mother has condescended to

grant you merely by being Herself. Merely being a well-behaved, loving child is

not repayment enough, because you are rarely an enjoyment and more often a

burden to The Mother, who could have been a Queen in a far-off kingdom if not

for her heroic sense of responsibility for your well-being.

*Except I'm guessing really not. Am I right, KO Moms?

I know in my mom's case, she seemed to think that being a mother would restore

to her all the respect, attention, and affection she didn't get in her

childhood, though by the time we were born, these needs in her were already

insatiable for any prolonged period of time.

What other powers is The Mother entitled to, in your experience?

[Guest guest]

I think you covered them well:

Subservience.

Being a willing participant in nada's lust for inflicting pain.

Being something " owned " rather than being a human.

And, of course, the baseline expectation that you, the child, make her world

happy and wonderful and peaceful and joyous and sparkly NO MATTER what she does.

Yep. That's your job.

Motherhood has taught me a lot about how screwed up nada's perspective is. They

don't demand forgiveness and love. That's what they call it,but that's not what

they mean. What is " love and forgiveness " to them is actually subservience,

humiliation, complete lack of consequences for their behavior, the full right to

demean, humiliate, torture, and destroy, and a constant " approval " that is

disconnected from anything they do or say.

Before I had kids, I used to think nada/fada were terrible parents, but I must

have missed something. I thought they were highly dysfunctional parents, but

parents nonetheless.

Now that I have kids, I know for certain: they aren't dysfunctional in their

parenting. They aren't parents at all. They don't even live in on the same

planet as parenting. They are truly insane . . . living in the sick land of oz.

Don't know if that makes sense. Nada didn't mother you. She didn't parent you.

What she did was an entirely different animal, so to speak!

Blessings,

Karla

>

> A few years ago, I belonged to the KO message board, The Nook, and when that

board changed, I printed out all of my posts so that I would have a record of my

thoughts and feelings at the time (I had just found out NADA was BPD). I go

through them periodically to remind myself that I'm not crazy, she really did

those things, and it was legitimately traumatic.

>

> Reading through them this morning, I noticed a theme about Nada's

justifications for her behavior. Now, I believe that a loving, supportive,

healthy mother is worth " a price above rubies, " but there were many times when

Nada shat all over the concept of being a mother, to the point where I'm fairly

certain I never want children, partly because I don't want to be a " mother. "

>

> Here are some things Nada, when she was in full BPD-mode, thought being THE

MOTHER entitled her to:

>

> 1.) Mothers are entitled to not only your unconditional love, but also your

unconditional obedience, even if they are asking you to do something

embarrassing, dangerous, or illegal. Mothers are entitled to unconditional

forgiveness no matter what their behavior. You, as the child, are not at liberty

to mirror their own abusive behavior back to them; " Son " and " Daughter " are

inferior titles and not deserving of equal esteem with " Mother " .

>

> 2.) The instant you become a Mother, superior wisdom and authority are

conferred upon you, such that any judgment of the child's, no matter what the

child's age or intellectual ability, is subject to approval by the Mother.

> A.) This is partly because as The Mother, you know your child " better

than she knows herself, " so it's really all in her best interest. She can have

no experience that is outside your understanding, because she's not really a

separate person.

> B.) In the event that The Mother's judgment should ever be erroneous,

this is because she was not provided with proper information from the child.

> C.) You will only understand Mother's motivations and actions when you

yourself become A Mother, and superior wisdom and authority are conferred on

you.*

>

> 3.) Mothers are not care-takers; they are rulers of a kind; ie authorized to

make rules and inflict punishments, but to only bestow affection when they see

fit.

> A.) At all other times, affection and nurturing must be lavished on The

Mother by the currently designated all-good child, no matter how young the child

may be or how inappropriate the situation.

> B.) Any physical or emotional care you give to the Mother is really the

least you can do, considering the great favor the Mother has condescended to

grant you merely by being Herself. Merely being a well-behaved, loving child is

not repayment enough, because you are rarely an enjoyment and more often a

burden to The Mother, who could have been a Queen in a far-off kingdom if not

for her heroic sense of responsibility for your well-being.

>

>

> *Except I'm guessing really not. Am I right, KO Moms?

>

>

> I know in my mom's case, she seemed to think that being a mother would restore

to her all the respect, attention, and affection she didn't get in her

childhood, though by the time we were born, these needs in her were already

insatiable for any prolonged period of time.

>

> What other powers is The Mother entitled to, in your experience?

>

[Guest guest]

" Being something " owned " rather than being a human. "

This. In my case, it came out as being able to say anything at anytime no

matter how inappropriate.

> >

> > A few years ago, I belonged to the KO message board, The Nook, and when that

board changed, I printed out all of my posts so that I would have a record of my

thoughts and feelings at the time (I had just found out NADA was BPD). I go

through them periodically to remind myself that I'm not crazy, she really did

those things, and it was legitimately traumatic.

> >

> > Reading through them this morning, I noticed a theme about Nada's

justifications for her behavior. Now, I believe that a loving, supportive,

healthy mother is worth " a price above rubies, " but there were many times when

Nada shat all over the concept of being a mother, to the point where I'm fairly

certain I never want children, partly because I don't want to be a " mother. "

> >

> > Here are some things Nada, when she was in full BPD-mode, thought being THE

MOTHER entitled her to:

> >

> > 1.) Mothers are entitled to not only your unconditional love, but also your

unconditional obedience, even if they are asking you to do something

embarrassing, dangerous, or illegal. Mothers are entitled to unconditional

forgiveness no matter what their behavior. You, as the child, are not at liberty

to mirror their own abusive behavior back to them; " Son " and " Daughter " are

inferior titles and not deserving of equal esteem with " Mother " .

> >

> > 2.) The instant you become a Mother, superior wisdom and authority are

conferred upon you, such that any judgment of the child's, no matter what the

child's age or intellectual ability, is subject to approval by the Mother.

> > A.) This is partly because as The Mother, you know your child

" better than she knows herself, " so it's really all in her best interest. She

can have no experience that is outside your understanding, because she's not

really a separate person.

> > B.) In the event that The Mother's judgment should ever be erroneous,

this is because she was not provided with proper information from the child.

> > C.) You will only understand Mother's motivations and actions when

you yourself become A Mother, and superior wisdom and authority are conferred on

you.*

> >

> > 3.) Mothers are not care-takers; they are rulers of a kind; ie authorized to

make rules and inflict punishments, but to only bestow affection when they see

fit.

> > A.) At all other times, affection and nurturing must be lavished on

The Mother by the currently designated all-good child, no matter how young the

child may be or how inappropriate the situation.

> > B.) Any physical or emotional care you give to the Mother is really

the least you can do, considering the great favor the Mother has condescended to

grant you merely by being Herself. Merely being a well-behaved, loving child is

not repayment enough, because you are rarely an enjoyment and more often a

burden to The Mother, who could have been a Queen in a far-off kingdom if not

for her heroic sense of responsibility for your well-being.

> >

> >

> > *Except I'm guessing really not. Am I right, KO Moms?

> >

> >

> > I know in my mom's case, she seemed to think that being a mother would

restore to her all the respect, attention, and affection she didn't get in her

childhood, though by the time we were born, these needs in her were already

insatiable for any prolonged period of time.

> >

> > What other powers is The Mother entitled to, in your experience?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Man. The whole requiring your child(ren) to do illegal things for you really

knocked the breath out of me. I can name more than a few times that my nada

asked me to do something illegal.

>

> A few years ago, I belonged to the KO message board, The Nook, and when that

board changed, I printed out all of my posts so that I would have a record of my

thoughts and feelings at the time (I had just found out NADA was BPD). I go

through them periodically to remind myself that I'm not crazy, she really did

those things, and it was legitimately traumatic.

>

> Reading through them this morning, I noticed a theme about Nada's

justifications for her behavior. Now, I believe that a loving, supportive,

healthy mother is worth " a price above rubies, " but there were many times when

Nada shat all over the concept of being a mother, to the point where I'm fairly

certain I never want children, partly because I don't want to be a " mother. "

>

> Here are some things Nada, when she was in full BPD-mode, thought being THE

MOTHER entitled her to:

>

> 1.) Mothers are entitled to not only your unconditional love, but also your

unconditional obedience, even if they are asking you to do something

embarrassing, dangerous, or illegal. Mothers are entitled to unconditional

forgiveness no matter what their behavior. You, as the child, are not at liberty

to mirror their own abusive behavior back to them; " Son " and " Daughter " are

inferior titles and not deserving of equal esteem with " Mother " .

>

> 2.) The instant you become a Mother, superior wisdom and authority are

conferred upon you, such that any judgment of the child's, no matter what the

child's age or intellectual ability, is subject to approval by the Mother.

> A.) This is partly because as The Mother, you know your child " better

than she knows herself, " so it's really all in her best interest. She can have

no experience that is outside your understanding, because she's not really a

separate person.

> B.) In the event that The Mother's judgment should ever be erroneous,

this is because she was not provided with proper information from the child.

> C.) You will only understand Mother's motivations and actions when you

yourself become A Mother, and superior wisdom and authority are conferred on

you.*

>

> 3.) Mothers are not care-takers; they are rulers of a kind; ie authorized to

make rules and inflict punishments, but to only bestow affection when they see

fit.

> A.) At all other times, affection and nurturing must be lavished on The

Mother by the currently designated all-good child, no matter how young the child

may be or how inappropriate the situation.

> B.) Any physical or emotional care you give to the Mother is really the

least you can do, considering the great favor the Mother has condescended to

grant you merely by being Herself. Merely being a well-behaved, loving child is

not repayment enough, because you are rarely an enjoyment and more often a

burden to The Mother, who could have been a Queen in a far-off kingdom if not

for her heroic sense of responsibility for your well-being.

>

>

> *Except I'm guessing really not. Am I right, KO Moms?

>

>

> I know in my mom's case, she seemed to think that being a mother would restore

to her all the respect, attention, and affection she didn't get in her

childhood, though by the time we were born, these needs in her were already

insatiable for any prolonged period of time.

>

> What other powers is The Mother entitled to, in your experience?

>

[Guest guest]

This almost brought me to tears - I could have written this, in fact, I have

written parts of it, and I have thought the rest of it a million times.

And yes, regarding point 2.C), you are right. I am a KO mom and although she

used to tell me that I do not understand because I don't have kids, she simply

" flipped the channel " after my kids were born. Now, I don't understand because I

don't have to raise kids under the same conditions as she did, so I still can't

possibly understand and she had the worst life ever and was the greatest mother

on earth, especially since she had it so much harder than anyone else in the

universe.

>

> A few years ago, I belonged to the KO message board, The Nook, and when that

board changed, I printed out all of my posts so that I would have a record of my

thoughts and feelings at the time (I had just found out NADA was BPD). I go

through them periodically to remind myself that I'm not crazy, she really did

those things, and it was legitimately traumatic.

>

> Reading through them this morning, I noticed a theme about Nada's

justifications for her behavior. Now, I believe that a loving, supportive,

healthy mother is worth " a price above rubies, " but there were many times when

Nada shat all over the concept of being a mother, to the point where I'm fairly

certain I never want children, partly because I don't want to be a " mother. "

>

> Here are some things Nada, when she was in full BPD-mode, thought being THE

MOTHER entitled her to:

>

> 1.) Mothers are entitled to not only your unconditional love, but also your

unconditional obedience, even if they are asking you to do something

embarrassing, dangerous, or illegal. Mothers are entitled to unconditional

forgiveness no matter what their behavior. You, as the child, are not at liberty

to mirror their own abusive behavior back to them; " Son " and " Daughter " are

inferior titles and not deserving of equal esteem with " Mother " .

>

> 2.) The instant you become a Mother, superior wisdom and authority are

conferred upon you, such that any judgment of the child's, no matter what the

child's age or intellectual ability, is subject to approval by the Mother.

> A.) This is partly because as The Mother, you know your child " better

than she knows herself, " so it's really all in her best interest. She can have

no experience that is outside your understanding, because she's not really a

separate person.

> B.) In the event that The Mother's judgment should ever be erroneous,

this is because she was not provided with proper information from the child.

> C.) You will only understand Mother's motivations and actions when you

yourself become A Mother, and superior wisdom and authority are conferred on

you.*

>

> 3.) Mothers are not care-takers; they are rulers of a kind; ie authorized to

make rules and inflict punishments, but to only bestow affection when they see

fit.

> A.) At all other times, affection and nurturing must be lavished on The

Mother by the currently designated all-good child, no matter how young the child

may be or how inappropriate the situation.

> B.) Any physical or emotional care you give to the Mother is really the

least you can do, considering the great favor the Mother has condescended to

grant you merely by being Herself. Merely being a well-behaved, loving child is

not repayment enough, because you are rarely an enjoyment and more often a

burden to The Mother, who could have been a Queen in a far-off kingdom if not

for her heroic sense of responsibility for your well-being.

>

>

> *Except I'm guessing really not. Am I right, KO Moms?

>

>

> I know in my mom's case, she seemed to think that being a mother would restore

to her all the respect, attention, and affection she didn't get in her

childhood, though by the time we were born, these needs in her were already

insatiable for any prolonged period of time.

>

> What other powers is The Mother entitled to, in your experience?

>

[Guest guest]

And did she then ask you why you were crying/what was wrong with you when you

didn't want to go along? That was my mom.

Isn't being an adult so much better than being a kid?

> >

> > A few years ago, I belonged to the KO message board, The Nook, and when that

board changed, I printed out all of my posts so that I would have a record of my

thoughts and feelings at the time (I had just found out NADA was BPD). I go

through them periodically to remind myself that I'm not crazy, she really did

those things, and it was legitimately traumatic.

> >

> > Reading through them this morning, I noticed a theme about Nada's

justifications for her behavior. Now, I believe that a loving, supportive,

healthy mother is worth " a price above rubies, " but there were many times when

Nada shat all over the concept of being a mother, to the point where I'm fairly

certain I never want children, partly because I don't want to be a " mother. "

> >

> > Here are some things Nada, when she was in full BPD-mode, thought being THE

MOTHER entitled her to:

> >

> > 1.) Mothers are entitled to not only your unconditional love, but also your

unconditional obedience, even if they are asking you to do something

embarrassing, dangerous, or illegal. Mothers are entitled to unconditional

forgiveness no matter what their behavior. You, as the child, are not at liberty

to mirror their own abusive behavior back to them; " Son " and " Daughter " are

inferior titles and not deserving of equal esteem with " Mother " .

> >

> > 2.) The instant you become a Mother, superior wisdom and authority are

conferred upon you, such that any judgment of the child's, no matter what the

child's age or intellectual ability, is subject to approval by the Mother.

> > A.) This is partly because as The Mother, you know your child

" better than she knows herself, " so it's really all in her best interest. She

can have no experience that is outside your understanding, because she's not

really a separate person.

> > B.) In the event that The Mother's judgment should ever be erroneous,

this is because she was not provided with proper information from the child.

> > C.) You will only understand Mother's motivations and actions when

you yourself become A Mother, and superior wisdom and authority are conferred on

you.*

> >

> > 3.) Mothers are not care-takers; they are rulers of a kind; ie authorized to

make rules and inflict punishments, but to only bestow affection when they see

fit.

> > A.) At all other times, affection and nurturing must be lavished on

The Mother by the currently designated all-good child, no matter how young the

child may be or how inappropriate the situation.

> > B.) Any physical or emotional care you give to the Mother is really

the least you can do, considering the great favor the Mother has condescended to

grant you merely by being Herself. Merely being a well-behaved, loving child is

not repayment enough, because you are rarely an enjoyment and more often a

burden to The Mother, who could have been a Queen in a far-off kingdom if not

for her heroic sense of responsibility for your well-being.

> >

> >

> > *Except I'm guessing really not. Am I right, KO Moms?

> >

> >

> > I know in my mom's case, she seemed to think that being a mother would

restore to her all the respect, attention, and affection she didn't get in her

childhood, though by the time we were born, these needs in her were already

insatiable for any prolonged period of time.

> >

> > What other powers is The Mother entitled to, in your experience?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

" Now, I don't understand because I don't have to raise kids under the same

conditions as she did, so I still can't possibly understand and she had the

worst life ever and was the greatest mother on earth, especially since she had

it so much harder than anyone else in the universe. "

Special Account, this is exactly what I imagine happening with my mother were I

to have children! Mom's circumstances were so special and unique no one could

ever understand them! That sound you hear is me rolling me eyes and exhaling

loudly.

[Guest guest]

Yeah, being owned by 'them' hits home for me. There are a couple things

they taught us kids, fully believing they were correct, justified and

entitled to teach. They are bitterness, resentfulness, selfishness and

unforgiveness; anger enters in there too. Phew! I can't believe I have

survived

being their " kid " in this world. Nada and fada are 90 years old now. They

have successfully become the most miserable, angry and lonely people I've

ever seen.

Laurie

In a message dated 2/18/2011 3:10:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

eireannachcailin1@... writes:

" Being something " owned " rather than being a human. "

This. In my case, it came out as being able to say anything at anytime no

matter how inappropriate.

> >

> > A few years ago, I belonged to the KO message board, The Nook, and

when that board changed, I printed out all of my posts so that I would have a

record of my thoughts and feelings at the time (I had just found out NADA

was BPD). I go through them periodically to remind myself that I'm not

crazy, she really did those things, and it was legitimately traumatic.

> >

> > Reading through them this morning, I noticed a theme about Nada's

justifications for her behavior. Now, I believe that a loving, supportive,

healthy mother is worth " a price above rubies, " but there were many times when

Nada shat all over the concept of being a mother, to the point where I'm

fairly certain I never want children, partly because I don't want to be a

" mother. "

> >

> > Here are some things Nada, when she was in full BPD-mode, thought

being THE MOTHER entitled her to:

> >

> > 1.) Mothers are entitled to not only your unconditional love, but also

your unconditional obedience, even if they are asking you to do something

embarrassing, dangerous, or illegal. Mothers are entitled to unconditional

forgiveness no matter what their behavior. You, as the child, are not at

liberty to mirror their own abusive behavior back to them; " Son " and

" Daughter " are inferior titles and not deserving of equal esteem with " Mother " .

> >

> > 2.) The instant you become a Mother, superior wisdom and authority are

conferred upon you, such that any judgment of the child's, no matter what

the child's age or intellectual ability, is subject to approval by the

Mother.

> > A.) This is partly because as The Mother, you know your child " better

than she knows herself, " so it's really all in her best interest. She can

have no experience that is outside your understanding, because she's not

really a separate person.

> > B.) In the event that The Mother's judgment should ever be erroneous,

this is because she was not provided with proper information from the

child.

> > C.) You will only understand Mother's motivations and actions when you

yourself become A Mother, and superior wisdom and authority are conferred

on you.*

> >

> > 3.) Mothers are not care-takers; they are rulers of a kind; ie

authorized to make rules and inflict punishments, but to only bestow affection

when they see fit.

> > A.) At all other times, affection and nurturing must be lavished on

The Mother by the currently designated all-good child, no matter how young

the child may be or how inappropriate the situation.

> > B.) Any physical or emotional care you give to the Mother is really

the least you can do, considering the great favor the Mother has condescended

to grant you merely by being Herself. Merely being a well-behaved, loving

child is not repayment enough, because you are rarely an enjoyment and more

often a burden to The Mother, who could have been a Queen in a far-off

kingdom if not for her heroic sense of responsibility for your well-being.

> >

> >

> > *Except I'm guessing really not. Am I right, KO Moms?

> >

> >

> > I know in my mom's case, she seemed to think that being a mother would

restore to her all the respect, attention, and affection she didn't get in

her childhood, though by the time we were born, these needs in her were

already insatiable for any prolonged period of time.

> >

> > What other powers is The Mother entitled to, in your experience?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That relates to a piece of " folk wisdom " I've heard off and on all my life,

which is: as we age, we become " more " of whatever our core self is to begin

with. Sort of a more concentrated version of ourselves.

I buy this because of observing the older generation in my own family. My

maternal grandmother (nada's mother) was always simply a very sweet, quiet, shy,

docile kind of person, and as an elderly lady was even more so. Quiet, but kind

and loving; she eventually became bedridden. One day she slipped quietly and

peacefully into a coma, and never woke up. My paternal grandmother was more

garrulous and active, more demonstrative of her feelings and opinions, and more

of a people-person. In her last years she remained true to form and was such a

busy little bee, doing her own housekeeping, being social, etc. Then she had a

stroke and became very child-like (in a sweet way) and passed away not long

afterward.

So, at least in some cases, it would appear that age does not necessarily bring

an epiphany, or change, or wisdom, just a sort of distilled essence of " self. "

-Annie

>

> Yeah, being owned by 'them' hits home for me. There are a couple things

> they taught us kids, fully believing they were correct, justified and

> entitled to teach. They are bitterness, resentfulness, selfishness and

> unforgiveness; anger enters in there too. Phew! I can't believe I have

survived

> being their " kid " in this world. Nada and fada are 90 years old now. They

> have successfully become the most miserable, angry and lonely people I've

> ever seen.

>

> Laurie

[Guest guest]

I came to hate the phrase, The Mother. My own used it to assert her

right to speak ex cathedra. Why? Because I m The Mother.

I ve come to realize that because they have no sense of their own self,

one of their defenses is to create a persona to live for them. In some

cases, it is us.

That is MY son doing so and so. I raised MY son to do xyz. The self of

us, was that of MOTHER s child.

In other cases, it is this created, but unreal MOTHER.

The MOTHER had great rapport with all children, except those who knew

her. She talked about EVERYTHING with her son. Never mind that he

begged her not to talk about her sex life with him. The MOTHER wished

that she could have raised child x, or child y, because if they had

given them to her, SHE would have raised them right. Oh, please, just

shoot me.

The MOTHER didnt exist, except in her created reality. She bore no

responsibility, had no faults, and was always right in her motivations,

and therefore to be excused at once if her actions didnt work out so

well.

One thing that all KO s came to understand is that when THE MOTHER was

invocked, they were screwed.

Doug

[Guest guest]

Doug et al,

At my appointment with T last week, the first thing he always asks is how I'm

doing. That's basically my lead to talk about whatever is on my mind. I said ok,

but that I had been really sad since going NC with nada, because I miss her. And

that is strange. We talked maybe once a week, and I never got anything out of

these conversations because it was always about 1) how miserable her life was

and how terrible things are for her 2) criticizing me for something or 3)

completely ignoring me and spending an hour gushing over how much she loves my

brother or SIL. I told him, it's not that I want to talk to her, because I

don't. I have no desire to talk to her. But I feel like I lost something and I

miss it. Does that make any sense?

And he said, well yes, it makes perfect sense.

And I said, really?

And he said: yes, because it's your MOTHER.

And I said: but she's never given me any of the things that you need from a

mother, or any of the things that I need from her as a mother, and I don't think

she ever will.

And he agreed with that and we went on to discuss re-parenting myself, etc.

But my point is that even my therapist recognizes that people who are MOTHERS

aren't exactly nurturing their children or even grown children in the way they

should be concerned with doing. His statement that it's my MOTHER, was more

about what I was having trouble letting go of, to make me accept that MOTHER was

just a word and that really I have to be concerned with the relationship between

us and what am I getting out of it. And all I'm getting out of it or ever got

out of it, at least in a positive way, is a word. A word that forgives her of

everything in society's eyes and gives her a hall pass for any behavior in the

world. (I know that's not true, but you know what I mean.)

It's a really difficult realization that the things that you need from her, she

will never be able to give. But it's also immensely freeing because I don't have

to worry about looking to her for them anymore. I'm really lucky as an adult to

have a female role model and nurturer in my step-mother, who has been my stepmom

for about 8 years now. She jokes that she's my evil stepmom, but having her in

my life has really helped a lot. She has helped me rebuild my relationship with

my dad too.

The other things--the things I needed to learn as a child--I'm re-parenting

myself for. And even at the start I can say it's tough, but with these

realizations I feel a little better every day.

The first step was this list of 10 things I like about myself. Relating back to

your post, Doug, I realized I was having trouble with this list, in part,

because I have three identities. I have the identity I have constructed for

myself, away from her, that I do like. I have the person she has made me be, and

I have the object person that is an extension of herself. But in reality, they

are all me, one person. And I'm still learning which parts are really me, and

are things she put on me. Okay, to anyone else that would probably not make

sense but I think you all will know what I'm talking about without me getting

too detailed. That whole thing about " My daughter " blah blah blah " my daughter " .

That's the object person. When she talks to me, it's the person she thinks I am,

regardless of who I really am. For example, according to her, my favorite color

is pink. It's not. My favorite color a tie between green and yellow. Depends on

my mood.

Sorry for the length post. I probably re-stated a lot of what others had said...

[Guest guest]

OMG why do they do things like that - assign you a favorite color that's not

your favorite. My nada didn't do that exactly but I know just what you mean.

>

>

> Doug et al,

>

> At my appointment with T last week, the first thing he always asks is how

> I'm doing. That's basically my lead to talk about whatever is on my mind. I

> said ok, but that I had been really sad since going NC with nada, because I

> miss her. And that is strange. We talked maybe once a week, and I never got

> anything out of these conversations because it was always about 1) how

> miserable her life was and how terrible things are for her 2) criticizing me

> for something or 3) completely ignoring me and spending an hour gushing over

> how much she loves my brother or SIL. I told him, it's not that I want to

> talk to her, because I don't. I have no desire to talk to her. But I feel

> like I lost something and I miss it. Does that make any sense?

>

> And he said, well yes, it makes perfect sense.

>

> And I said, really?

>

> And he said: yes, because it's your MOTHER.

>

> And I said: but she's never given me any of the things that you need from a

> mother, or any of the things that I need from her as a mother, and I don't

> think she ever will.

>

> And he agreed with that and we went on to discuss re-parenting myself, etc.

>

>

> But my point is that even my therapist recognizes that people who are

> MOTHERS aren't exactly nurturing their children or even grown children in

> the way they should be concerned with doing. His statement that it's my

> MOTHER, was more about what I was having trouble letting go of, to make me

> accept that MOTHER was just a word and that really I have to be concerned

> with the relationship between us and what am I getting out of it. And all

> I'm getting out of it or ever got out of it, at least in a positive way, is

> a word. A word that forgives her of everything in society's eyes and gives

> her a hall pass for any behavior in the world. (I know that's not true, but

> you know what I mean.)

>

> It's a really difficult realization that the things that you need from her,

> she will never be able to give. But it's also immensely freeing because I

> don't have to worry about looking to her for them anymore. I'm really lucky

> as an adult to have a female role model and nurturer in my step-mother, who

> has been my stepmom for about 8 years now. She jokes that she's my evil

> stepmom, but having her in my life has really helped a lot. She has helped

> me rebuild my relationship with my dad too.

>

> The other things--the things I needed to learn as a child--I'm re-parenting

> myself for. And even at the start I can say it's tough, but with these

> realizations I feel a little better every day.

>

> The first step was this list of 10 things I like about myself. Relating

> back to your post, Doug, I realized I was having trouble with this list, in

> part, because I have three identities. I have the identity I have

> constructed for myself, away from her, that I do like. I have the person she

> has made me be, and I have the object person that is an extension of

> herself. But in reality, they are all me, one person. And I'm still learning

> which parts are really me, and are things she put on me. Okay, to anyone

> else that would probably not make sense but I think you all will know what

> I'm talking about without me getting too detailed. That whole thing about

> " My daughter " blah blah blah " my daughter " . That's the object person. When

> she talks to me, it's the person she thinks I am, regardless of who I really

> am. For example, according to her, my favorite color is pink. It's not. My

> favorite color a tie between green and yellow. Depends on my mood.

>

> Sorry for the length post. I probably re-stated a lot of what others had

> said...

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, or buying us clothes that are what they like and have nothing to do with

our own personal style. Or insisting that we watch movies that they liked even

though they SHOULD know what kind of movies we like or what things we are into.

Or buying a 30 year old woman a stuffed animal for Christmas or giving me ginger

cookies when I don't like ginger but OH MY THEY ARE SO GOOD! I LOVE that nada

once screamed at me, when I asked her why she never comes to stay with me

(obviously before I knew she was sick) and she screamed at me that I didn't have

enough room and any place for her to stay. Except she's never been to my

apartment, and has no clue how big my apartment is (it's huge). When I said that

to her, she just stuttered and stumbled and couldn't think of anything to say.

It was funny for me. hahaha...

[Guest guest]

, this:

It's a really difficult realization that the things that you need from her,

> she will never be able to give. But it's also immensely freeing because I

> don't have to worry about looking to her for them anymore.

is something I went through myself, and something all us KOs probably go through

at some point. It is odd how sad it can make one feel, and how simultaneously

relieving it can be to realize, " There's nothing I can do. I can stop trying. "

The buying clothes thing I can also relate to. Even now, she criticizes what I

wear, buys me clothes that are oddly hideous, and then gets massively offended

when I don't like them.

I love when she complains that she doesn't know me and we're not close anymore,

but then continues to treat me as if does know me. Hint: If I say my favorite

color is red, and you say it's purple, that doesn't mean I'm wrong and you know

me better than I know myself! Mom, you so crazy.

>

[Guest guest]

I think your list sums it up pretty good. My mother was the matriarch of the

family, of course. When I became a mother, she was still the most important (in

her eyes). She never wished me a happy mother's day (even when I dropped hints,

which she apparently never got), and would ask me to do things like travel to

her house 5.5 hours away when my son was having surgery (I have a special needs

child). Unbelievable at times...truly. The older I got, the less I thought that

I would need a mother, but it's only seemed to hurt me more when I see mothers

and daughters together in public.