No guilt.....and feeling guilty???

[Guest guest]

My father in law passed away abvout 3 years ago and my husband and I are forced

to care for him mom. She is an alcoholic, smoker, but overall is a genuinely

nice person and I have no problem with it. She is currently living on her own,

but the day will eventually come where she either lives with us or enters an old

age home.

Obviously, this conversation drew to my nada and fada. My friends were asking

" What are you going to do when you get a phone call saying that your 'mom' is

sick? " (they are aware of my situation with my nada and her BPD). I told them

" Considering that her last words to me where 'Not even on my death bed do I want

you around me', I am pretty sure there is my answer. " They say disgustingly " Oh

stop it!! That's your mom! "

Does anyone else get this? I mean these are friends that have seen me cry and

get stressed out over my mom, but still seem to have a judgment about it. Does

anyone else go through this? Am I wrong for not feeling guilt abbout this? I am

sure I will be forced to take care of her since I am an only child, but am I

wrong for not having any emotion about it....yet... ?

AJ

[Guest guest]

Hi AJ,

Yes, I think we all get it. It's because to them, it's your MOTHER. That old

sacred word, which to us is equivalent to MONSTER!

I guess my understanding is you feel guilty because of this symbol-word MOTHER

and you feel like you should. I haven't been having feelings of guilt but of

loss and missing nada, but those have been alleviated when I remind myself that

the things I need, she can never and most likely will never give to me. Instead

she abuses and mistreats me, so there is nothing to feel guilty over. I'm sad

that I don't have a real mother, but I refuse to feel guilty anymore.

I don't know what my answer is as far as, if nada ever falls ill and needs me to

take care of her or something. I refuse to let her live with me (unless

somewhere along the line she miraculously decides to seek treatment for BPD and

is actively working to heal herself). So I guess my brothers and I would have to

find a home for her. If she hasn't done well by herself and saved enough

retirement, it might not be the best home in the world. I think, where I stand

right now, I won't let her starve or be homeless, but she won't live with me and

I'm also not going into poverty to feed and cloth her. But if things end up

being hard for her or less than she's dreamed, well, she's done that to herself.

[Guest guest]

I think that we human beings are so deeply biologically/genetically *hardwired*

to bond to our mother (specifically our bio-mom) that the bond can still remain

intact despite unspeakable mistreatment of the child. I've read how a small

child will panic and scream when the kindly ER worker tries to treat her

injuries. Instead, the small child clings in desperate, mindless terror to the

very person who just beat her black and blue and broke her arm in a fit of rage:

her own mother.

The bond is so strong it over-rides reason, logic, reality, and rationality.

Its almost literally like trying to swim up a waterfall to escape

this overpowering biological programming, so that even when you intellectually

comprehend that this particular individual is not *capable* of actually loving

you back, and may in fact be actively engaged in trying to harm you (out of

revenge, perhaps) or exploit you (financially or emotionally) we the Kids Of bpd

moms still actually feel *guilty* that we're *supposed* to love and care for

this individual.

The hard-wiring is such an integral part of our very being that it doesn't

really surprise me that those who were lucky enough to have " good enough "

mothers are simply incapable of " getting it. "

That's why Groups like this are so important. I *need* a place where other KOs

actually GET IT. My friends, even my best friend whose mother was so negligent

that my friend developed rickets from malnutrition as a small child, doesn't

truly get it. (We're talking a middle-class, home-owning, two-parent, dad-works

& mom stays home family with 4 sibs.)

I thank God every day that my little Sister " gets it " . She is my reality-check;

otherwise I might believe that I imagined a lot of what happened to me. But

Sister and I both experienced the abuse, the bewilderment, the anxiety, and the

soul-crushing despair of having a mother who was so unpredictable and mean and

goddam terrifying in her towering rages one moment, and sweet and loving the

next moment, and we have verified these things to each other. Yes, it really

did happen.

Other people are willing and able to " get it " when its the *dad* who sexually

violates and exploits his own daughters. That's the nearest equivalent to the

" soul rape " that chronic emotional abuse, rejection/neglect, denigration,

scapegoating, parentalizing, infantilizing, spousifying, and other mistreatment

does to a child's sense of self, and self-value, when its inflicted by the

mother.

If you don't want to have anything to do with your father because he repeatedly

sexually used you and messed up your head and your body when you were too young,

scared, or needy to stop him, then, people are understanding and sympathetic.

But when your mother does the equivalent: when she violates her child's very

being with abuse and neglect and exploitation, other people are rarely

understanding or sympathetic. Instead, we get the ubiquitous... " But... she's

your M-O-O-T-T-H-H-e-r-r-r! "

-Annie

>

> My father in law passed away abvout 3 years ago and my husband and I are

forced to care for him mom. She is an alcoholic, smoker, but overall is a

genuinely nice person and I have no problem with it. She is currently living on

her own, but the day will eventually come where she either lives with us or

enters an old age home.

>

> Obviously, this conversation drew to my nada and fada. My friends were asking

" What are you going to do when you get a phone call saying that your 'mom' is

sick? " (they are aware of my situation with my nada and her BPD). I told them

" Considering that her last words to me where 'Not even on my death bed do I want

you around me', I am pretty sure there is my answer. " They say disgustingly " Oh

stop it!! That's your mom! "

>

> Does anyone else get this? I mean these are friends that have seen me cry and

get stressed out over my mom, but still seem to have a judgment about it. Does

anyone else go through this? Am I wrong for not feeling guilt abbout this? I am

sure I will be forced to take care of her since I am an only child, but am I

wrong for not having any emotion about it....yet... ?

>

> AJ

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, my sister has a friend who actually lives next door to my nada and she

constantly tells my sister that she doesn't like her attitude about our nada.

This friend has seen first hand how mean and nasty my nada can be, but she still

thinks we owe it to my nada to care for her w/o complaining. Obviously she

hasn't walked in our shoes from the time we were born. Isn't respect

earned???????? I always thought so, but some people don't agree. No matter how

much we do for her, it's always wrong, or not enough, or too much, etc. etc.

Annie

>

> My father in law passed away abvout 3 years ago and my husband and I are

forced to care for him mom. She is an alcoholic, smoker, but overall is a

genuinely nice person and I have no problem with it. She is currently living on

her own, but the day will eventually come where she either lives with us or

enters an old age home.

>

> Obviously, this conversation drew to my nada and fada. My friends were asking

" What are you going to do when you get a phone call saying that your 'mom' is

sick? " (they are aware of my situation with my nada and her BPD). I told them

" Considering that her last words to me where 'Not even on my death bed do I want

you around me', I am pretty sure there is my answer. " They say disgustingly " Oh

stop it!! That's your mom! "

>

> Does anyone else get this? I mean these are friends that have seen me cry and

get stressed out over my mom, but still seem to have a judgment about it. Does

anyone else go through this? Am I wrong for not feeling guilt abbout this? I am

sure I will be forced to take care of her since I am an only child, but am I

wrong for not having any emotion about it....yet... ?

>

> AJ

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I can relate. For the past 10 years, my husband & I have " attended

to " my parents (BPD & narcissistic). My bro & sister heard our stories

about how horrible they were to us, but said " but it's your mother and

father!! " . My parents are thankful for nothing; act like we OWE them our life

and time. I am happy to say, those days are over for my husband & I. The

disfunction we were involved in with them is called " Bondage " , and frankly

none of us should be involved in bondage of any sort. Conditional " love " ,

is NOT love.

Don't feel guilt. You've made the correct decision. Your nada & fada

have made their own choices in life and it is not your responsibility to care

for people who have not loved you properly.

Laurie

In a message dated 2/20/2011 9:53:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

adriennedelatorre@... writes:

My father in law passed away abvout 3 years ago and my husband and I are

forced to care for him mom. She is an alcoholic, smoker, but overall is a

genuinely nice person and I have no problem with it. She is currently living

on her own, but the day will eventually come where she either lives with us

or enters an old age home.

Obviously, this conversation drew to my nada and fada. My friends were

asking " What are you going to do when you get a phone call saying that your

'mom' is sick? " (they are aware of my situation with my nada and her BPD). I

told them " Considering that her last words to me where 'Not even on my

death bed do I want you around me', I am pretty sure there is my answer. " They

say disgustingly " Oh stop it!! That's your mom! "

Does anyone else get this? I mean these are friends that have seen me cry

and get stressed out over my mom, but still seem to have a judgment about

it. Does anyone else go through this? Am I wrong for not feeling guilt

abbout this? I am sure I will be forced to take care of her since I am an only

child, but am I wrong for not having any emotion about it....yet... ?

AJ

[Guest guest]

Hey CA Annie,

Respect is such an interesting word to use. I know my nada is really keen on

it--how much respect she is owed, etc. I'm of the opinion that I give everyone,

even strangers, a base level of respect for being a human being, and I believe

that showing everyone this respect also is a way of respecting myself. But this

is a base level of respect, and I can certainly show more or less depending on

how this person has behaved in the past or in nada's case, abused or mistreated

me. For example, I show my grandma on my father's side a great deal of respect,

because she has always been very kind to me, but also because her generation

really believed in respecting your elders. She is very old, has lived through a

lot, and I show her as much respect as I can--I would never swear around her,

when I visit her I cover my tattoos, and lots of other little things I do to

show my respect. However my grandnada has actually participated in abuse against

me with nada and against nada. As far as I'm concerned she can go to hell. If

she called, and I actually answered the phone, I would treat her as a human

being and tell her not to call me again ever. But I probably wouldn't answer the

phone and would probably block her number forever.

I was going to say BPs don't even know what respect really is, but it''s unfair

to generalize. I can say my nada doesn't even know what respect really is. She

thinks respect is unwavering and unconditional acceptance and obedience of and

to her behavior. Her idea of respect is to sit still and not say anything while

she rages and screams and throws things at me. To disagree with her or tell her

she's wrong is extremely disrespectful, in her mind. Telling someone they are

behaving inappropriately is not disrespectful to that person. Honesty is not

disrespectful.

I guess it's because I would show her a base level of human respect that I won't

let her starve or be homeless should that day ever come. But as I said before,

she's NOT living with me. I hope her social security can cover a semi-decent old

age home.

[Guest guest]

Respect is something my nada & fada demand, but they display no respect

for me. When they lived with us for 6 months, fada acted as tho our home

was his; he had no respect for us, our time, what we were doing for them, our

property, nothing. I think boundaries are essential in anyones living

arrangements, yet fada would get furious if I would set them. We only had 2

major rules......keep the front door and garage door closed when going out

(he used to leave them wide open when he'd go out and we have dogs), the

other 'rule' was not to come in the garage when I was working.. I'm a dog

groomer and work out of my garage.

They thought that they could behave in their usual dispicable way, and we

were to say nothing.

Laurie

In a message dated 2/21/2011 1:04:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

dyslexiaspecialist@... writes:

Yes, my mom is the same with regard to respect. As children, we were

suppose to be seen and not heard. We didn't have a voice. It was her way or the

highway. She never apologized for anything. In fact, when an apology was

due, she became even more arrogant. Then, if we ever try to reason with her,

she simply says, " Quit lecturing me, my dad lectured me enough. "

Annie

>

> Hey CA Annie,

>

> Respect is such an interesting word to use. I know my nada is really

keen on it--how much respect she is owed, etc. I'm of the opinion that I give

everyone, even strangers, a base level of respect for being a human being,

and I believe that showing everyone this respect also is a way of

respecting myself. But this is a base level of respect, and I can certainly

show

more or less depending on how this person has behaved in the past or in nada's

case, abused or mistreated me. For example, I show my grandma on my

father's side a great deal of respect, because she has always been very kind to

me, but also because her generation really believed in respecting your

elders. She is very old, has lived through a lot, and I show her as much

respect

as I can--I would never swear around her, when I visit her I cover my

tattoos, and lots of other little things I do to show my respect. However my

grandnada has actually participated in abuse against me with nada and against

nada. As far as I'm concerned she can go to hell. If she called, and I

actually answered the phone, I would treat her as a human being and tell her

not to call me again ever. But I probably wouldn't answer the phone and

would probably block her number forever.

>

> I was going to say BPs don't even know what respect really is, but it''s

unfair to generalize. I can say my nada doesn't even know what respect

really is. She thinks respect is unwavering and unconditional acceptance and

obedience of and to her behavior. Her idea of respect is to sit still and

not say anything while she rages and screams and throws things at me. To

disagree with her or tell her she's wrong is extremely disrespectful, in her

mind. Telling someone they are behaving inappropriately is not disrespectful

to that person. Honesty is not disrespectful.

>

> I guess it's because I would show her a base level of human respect that

I won't let her starve or be homeless should that day ever come. But as I

said before, she's NOT living with me. I hope her social security can cover

a semi-decent old age home.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

AJ,

yes, I get that, too. I'm not nc with my mother but I am lc.

When I tell friends/other people that I would never invite my mother to live

with me (she's widowed), they say variations of " but she's your

moooooother.... "

They don't get it.

Either because they actually have a healthy/ " normal " relationship with their

mother OR they're a flying monkey that refuses to picture life without undying

obedience to their mother.

It's not even worth it trying to explain these dynamics to people that say,

" don't say that! how can you be so unfeeling? blah blah " They just don't/won't

get it. "

Fiona

>

> My father in law passed away abvout 3 years ago and my husband and I are

forced to care for him mom. She is an alcoholic, smoker, but overall is a

genuinely nice person and I have no problem with it. She is currently living on

her own, but the day will eventually come where she either lives with us or

enters an old age home.

>

> Obviously, this conversation drew to my nada and fada. My friends were asking

" What are you going to do when you get a phone call saying that your 'mom' is

sick? " (they are aware of my situation with my nada and her BPD). I told them

" Considering that her last words to me where 'Not even on my death bed do I want

you around me', I am pretty sure there is my answer. " They say disgustingly " Oh

stop it!! That's your mom! "

>

> Does anyone else get this? I mean these are friends that have seen me cry and

get stressed out over my mom, but still seem to have a judgment about it. Does

anyone else go through this? Am I wrong for not feeling guilt abbout this? I am

sure I will be forced to take care of her since I am an only child, but am I

wrong for not having any emotion about it....yet... ?

>

> AJ

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I've learned whom I can talk with and who I have to watch what I say about

my nada. Some just don't " get it. "

Annie

> >

> > My father in law passed away abvout 3 years ago and my husband and I are

forced to care for him mom. She is an alcoholic, smoker, but overall is a

genuinely nice person and I have no problem with it. She is currently living on

her own, but the day will eventually come where she either lives with us or

enters an old age home.

> >

> > Obviously, this conversation drew to my nada and fada. My friends were

asking " What are you going to do when you get a phone call saying that your

'mom' is sick? " (they are aware of my situation with my nada and her BPD). I

told them " Considering that her last words to me where 'Not even on my death bed

do I want you around me', I am pretty sure there is my answer. " They say

disgustingly " Oh stop it!! That's your mom! "

> >

> > Does anyone else get this? I mean these are friends that have seen me cry

and get stressed out over my mom, but still seem to have a judgment about it.

Does anyone else go through this? Am I wrong for not feeling guilt abbout this?

I am sure I will be forced to take care of her since I am an only child, but am

I wrong for not having any emotion about it....yet... ?

> >

> > AJ

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It's good that you already know that your nada WILL NOT live with you. R U

working with her to come up with a plan for when she cannot live independently?

My sis and I tried for years to get my mom to address these issues and she would

not. My sis bought her a book called, " How to Beat the Nursing Home Trap " and

my mom just took it and threw it on the floor. At my aunt's wake, my mom

announced to all the relatives that when she died she was going to make it as

hard as possible on my sis and I. I remember looking at my sis in disbelief.

My nada denies having said it. My nada still doesn't have a plan for when she

can't live independently. She refuses to go to a nursing home. And because she

" is of sound mind " no one can force her to go to one. Not yet, that is. She is

86. It seems like the only part of her brain that is working is the mean and

nasty area. It's unreal. I purchased long term care health insurance so I

won't do to my children what my mom has done to my sis and I.

Annie

>

> Hey CA Annie,

>

> Respect is such an interesting word to use. I know my nada is really keen on

it--how much respect she is owed, etc. I'm of the opinion that I give everyone,

even strangers, a base level of respect for being a human being, and I believe

that showing everyone this respect also is a way of respecting myself. But this

is a base level of respect, and I can certainly show more or less depending on

how this person has behaved in the past or in nada's case, abused or mistreated

me. For example, I show my grandma on my father's side a great deal of respect,

because she has always been very kind to me, but also because her generation

really believed in respecting your elders. She is very old, has lived through a

lot, and I show her as much respect as I can--I would never swear around her,

when I visit her I cover my tattoos, and lots of other little things I do to

show my respect. However my grandnada has actually participated in abuse against

me with nada and against nada. As far as I'm concerned she can go to hell. If

she called, and I actually answered the phone, I would treat her as a human

being and tell her not to call me again ever. But I probably wouldn't answer the

phone and would probably block her number forever.

>

> I was going to say BPs don't even know what respect really is, but it''s

unfair to generalize. I can say my nada doesn't even know what respect really

is. She thinks respect is unwavering and unconditional acceptance and obedience

of and to her behavior. Her idea of respect is to sit still and not say anything

while she rages and screams and throws things at me. To disagree with her or

tell her she's wrong is extremely disrespectful, in her mind. Telling someone

they are behaving inappropriately is not disrespectful to that person. Honesty

is not disrespectful.

>

> I guess it's because I would show her a base level of human respect that I

won't let her starve or be homeless should that day ever come. But as I said

before, she's NOT living with me. I hope her social security can cover a

semi-decent old age home.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have to say that I'm " lucky " (ha-ha) in that my mother can't keep her crazy in

check. It's pretty much out there for everyone to see. So I have a LOT of

support from my friends and family. My one sister-in-law tried to guilt me into

talking to my mom more at one time, though. She pointed out that her dad says

crazy things too, like he thought that one of his daughters had worked as a

can-can girl in a local show when that never happened. What he had though, was

dementia. I pointed out to her that while her dad might think someone in the

family was a can-can girl, my mom falsely accuses people in my family of murder

and child molestation and she's *not* suffering dementia. That's a whole

different ball of wax. Now that sister-in-law gets it.

I would advise just not talking about your mother with the people who don't get

it. Also, maybe re-evaluate some of those friendships. If those are close

friends who are just really hung up on the idea of " honoring your mother, "

that's one thing, but if they're just petty people, maybe they're not that

important to keep as friends.

I spent years wrestling with that guilt that I'm not taking good enough care of

my mother. Now, I really intend to watch my relationship with my own daughter.

If she doesn't want to spend time with me, then I know something is broken and

I'll work at fixing it.

I think it's GREAT you don't feel guilt any more. Good for you! Wish I could get

there 100%.

>

> My father in law passed away abvout 3 years ago and my husband and I are

forced to care for him mom. She is an alcoholic, smoker, but overall is a

genuinely nice person and I have no problem with it. She is currently living on

her own, but the day will eventually come where she either lives with us or

enters an old age home.

>

> Obviously, this conversation drew to my nada and fada. My friends were asking

" What are you going to do when you get a phone call saying that your 'mom' is

sick? " (they are aware of my situation with my nada and her BPD). I told them

" Considering that her last words to me where 'Not even on my death bed do I want

you around me', I am pretty sure there is my answer. " They say disgustingly " Oh

stop it!! That's your mom! "

>

> Does anyone else get this? I mean these are friends that have seen me cry and

get stressed out over my mom, but still seem to have a judgment about it. Does

anyone else go through this? Am I wrong for not feeling guilt abbout this? I am

sure I will be forced to take care of her since I am an only child, but am I

wrong for not having any emotion about it....yet... ?

>

> AJ

>

[Guest guest]

Hi CA Annie,

No I haven't discussed any nursing home plans with her yet. She is remarried

(for the past 8 years) and they are raising his 12 year old son. She is not even

60 yet. I have two brothers that are currently on speaking terms with her (I'm

currently NC). If she fails to plan correctly, and won't accept my help (or

makes some statement like yours did) then I wash my hands of her. That to me

says " I don't need or want your help. " And if that's how she feels, and is still

of sound mind, then frankly she is her own problem.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I would answer that my " mother " has been sick her entire life so a call

saying she is sick now is not news.

They are muggles with a capitol M!!!!

>

>

> I have to say that I'm " lucky " (ha-ha) in that my mother can't keep her

> crazy in check. It's pretty much out there for everyone to see. So I have a

> LOT of support from my friends and family. My one sister-in-law tried to

> guilt me into talking to my mom more at one time, though. She pointed out

> that her dad says crazy things too, like he thought that one of his

> daughters had worked as a can-can girl in a local show when that never

> happened. What he had though, was dementia. I pointed out to her that while

> her dad might think someone in the family was a can-can girl, my mom falsely

> accuses people in my family of murder and child molestation and she's *not*

> suffering dementia. That's a whole different ball of wax. Now that

> sister-in-law gets it.

>

> I would advise just not talking about your mother with the people who don't

> get it. Also, maybe re-evaluate some of those friendships. If those are

> close friends who are just really hung up on the idea of " honoring your

> mother, " that's one thing, but if they're just petty people, maybe they're

> not that important to keep as friends.

>

> I spent years wrestling with that guilt that I'm not taking good enough

> care of my mother. Now, I really intend to watch my relationship with my own

> daughter. If she doesn't want to spend time with me, then I know something

> is broken and I'll work at fixing it.

>

> I think it's GREAT you don't feel guilt any more. Good for you! Wish I

> could get there 100%.

>

>

> >

> > My father in law passed away abvout 3 years ago and my husband and I are

> forced to care for him mom. She is an alcoholic, smoker, but overall is a

> genuinely nice person and I have no problem with it. She is currently living

> on her own, but the day will eventually come where she either lives with us

> or enters an old age home.

> >

> > Obviously, this conversation drew to my nada and fada. My friends were

> asking " What are you going to do when you get a phone call saying that your

> 'mom' is sick? " (they are aware of my situation with my nada and her BPD). I

> told them " Considering that her last words to me where 'Not even on my death

> bed do I want you around me', I am pretty sure there is my answer. " They say

> disgustingly " Oh stop it!! That's your mom! "

> >

> > Does anyone else get this? I mean these are friends that have seen me cry

> and get stressed out over my mom, but still seem to have a judgment about

> it. Does anyone else go through this? Am I wrong for not feeling guilt

> abbout this? I am sure I will be forced to take care of her since I am an

> only child, but am I wrong for not having any emotion about it....yet... ?

> >

> > AJ

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's good that you already know that your nada WILL NOT live with you. R U

working with her to come up with a plan for when she cannot live independently?

My sis and I tried for years to get my mom to address these issues and she would

not. My sis bought her a book called, " How to Beat the Nursing Home Trap " and

my mom just took it and threw it on the floor. At my aunt's wake, my mom

announced to all the relatives that when she died she was going to make it as

hard as possible on my sis and I. I remember looking at my sis in disbelief.

My nada denies having said it. My nada still doesn't have a plan for when she

can't live independently. She refuses to go to a nursing home. And because she

" is of sound mind " no one can force her to go to one. Not yet, that is. She is

86. It seems like the only part of her brain that is working is the mean and

nasty area. It's unreal. I purchased long term care health insurance so I

won't do to my children what my mom has done to my sis and I.

Annie

>

> Hey CA Annie,

>

> Respect is such an interesting word to use. I know my nada is really keen on

it--how much respect she is owed, etc. I'm of the opinion that I give everyone,

even strangers, a base level of respect for being a human being, and I believe

that showing everyone this respect also is a way of respecting myself. But this

is a base level of respect, and I can certainly show more or less depending on

how this person has behaved in the past or in nada's case, abused or mistreated

me. For example, I show my grandma on my father's side a great deal of respect,

because she has always been very kind to me, but also because her generation

really believed in respecting your elders. She is very old, has lived through a

lot, and I show her as much respect as I can--I would never swear around her,

when I visit her I cover my tattoos, and lots of other little things I do to

show my respect. However my grandnada has actually participated in abuse against

me with nada and against nada. As far as I'm concerned she can go to hell. If

she called, and I actually answered the phone, I would treat her as a human

being and tell her not to call me again ever. But I probably wouldn't answer the

phone and would probably block her number forever.

>

> I was going to say BPs don't even know what respect really is, but it''s

unfair to generalize. I can say my nada doesn't even know what respect really

is. She thinks respect is unwavering and unconditional acceptance and obedience

of and to her behavior. Her idea of respect is to sit still and not say anything

while she rages and screams and throws things at me. To disagree with her or

tell her she's wrong is extremely disrespectful, in her mind. Telling someone

they are behaving inappropriately is not disrespectful to that person. Honesty

is not disrespectful.

>

> I guess it's because I would show her a base level of human respect that I

won't let her starve or be homeless should that day ever come. But as I said

before, she's NOT living with me. I hope her social security can cover a

semi-decent old age home.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, my mom is the same with regard to respect. As children, we were suppose to

be seen and not heard. We didn't have a voice. It was her way or the highway.

She never apologized for anything. In fact, when an apology was due, she became

even more arrogant. Then, if we ever try to reason with her, she simply says,

" Quit lecturing me, my dad lectured me enough. "

Annie

>

> Hey CA Annie,

>

> Respect is such an interesting word to use. I know my nada is really keen on

it--how much respect she is owed, etc. I'm of the opinion that I give everyone,

even strangers, a base level of respect for being a human being, and I believe

that showing everyone this respect also is a way of respecting myself. But this

is a base level of respect, and I can certainly show more or less depending on

how this person has behaved in the past or in nada's case, abused or mistreated

me. For example, I show my grandma on my father's side a great deal of respect,

because she has always been very kind to me, but also because her generation

really believed in respecting your elders. She is very old, has lived through a

lot, and I show her as much respect as I can--I would never swear around her,

when I visit her I cover my tattoos, and lots of other little things I do to

show my respect. However my grandnada has actually participated in abuse against

me with nada and against nada. As far as I'm concerned she can go to hell. If

she called, and I actually answered the phone, I would treat her as a human

being and tell her not to call me again ever. But I probably wouldn't answer the

phone and would probably block her number forever.

>

> I was going to say BPs don't even know what respect really is, but it''s

unfair to generalize. I can say my nada doesn't even know what respect really

is. She thinks respect is unwavering and unconditional acceptance and obedience

of and to her behavior. Her idea of respect is to sit still and not say anything

while she rages and screams and throws things at me. To disagree with her or

tell her she's wrong is extremely disrespectful, in her mind. Telling someone

they are behaving inappropriately is not disrespectful to that person. Honesty

is not disrespectful.

>

> I guess it's because I would show her a base level of human respect that I

won't let her starve or be homeless should that day ever come. But as I said

before, she's NOT living with me. I hope her social security can cover a

semi-decent old age home.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That is sooo true!! My nada would always complain about some sort of illness. I

thought she was going to die when I was a child. Imagine living every day as a

child with the fear that you would wake up one day and your mom would be dead?

It was finally cured for me one day when a local chiropractor in the area was

giving free consultations to local teachers in the area. Since my nada and I are

teachers, I called her to tell her. My whole life my nada has complained about

her back hurting her due to tension and stress that she has ultimately created.

When she said " no " to a something that was FREE??? that was when I stopped

feeling sympathy for her illnesses.

AJ

> > >

> > > My father in law passed away abvout 3 years ago and my husband and I are

> > forced to care for him mom. She is an alcoholic, smoker, but overall is a

> > genuinely nice person and I have no problem with it. She is currently living

> > on her own, but the day will eventually come where she either lives with us

> > or enters an old age home.

> > >

> > > Obviously, this conversation drew to my nada and fada. My friends were

> > asking " What are you going to do when you get a phone call saying that your

> > 'mom' is sick? " (they are aware of my situation with my nada and her BPD). I

> > told them " Considering that her last words to me where 'Not even on my death

> > bed do I want you around me', I am pretty sure there is my answer. " They say

> > disgustingly " Oh stop it!! That's your mom! "

> > >

> > > Does anyone else get this? I mean these are friends that have seen me cry

> > and get stressed out over my mom, but still seem to have a judgment about

> > it. Does anyone else go through this? Am I wrong for not feeling guilt

> > abbout this? I am sure I will be forced to take care of her since I am an

> > only child, but am I wrong for not having any emotion about it....yet... ?

> > >

> > > AJ

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I too feel judgement from friends that have also seen the grief and hurt I have

suffered from Nada.

A thought came to mind the other day. I am over trying to get them to get it.

So next time I am questioned or made to feel guilty I thought of a great

comeback.

I thought I could say " Hey if I was in an abusive marriage that was bad for me

and my wellbeing and state of mind, I am sure you would encourage me to leave

and get a divorce.

That is exactly what I have done with my mother..... got a DIVORCE. " Let's face

it, why is our mothers any different to our husbands that we have also got

children to. Even if we don't have marriage or children and are in an unhealthy

relationship I am sure they would all be batting for us to stand up and walk

away.

It just doesn't make sense to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kazam x

>

> Hi AJ,

>

> Yes, I think we all get it. It's because to them, it's your MOTHER. That old

sacred word, which to us is equivalent to MONSTER!

>

> I guess my understanding is you feel guilty because of this symbol-word MOTHER

and you feel like you should. I haven't been having feelings of guilt but of

loss and missing nada, but those have been alleviated when I remind myself that

the things I need, she can never and most likely will never give to me. Instead

she abuses and mistreats me, so there is nothing to feel guilty over. I'm sad

that I don't have a real mother, but I refuse to feel guilty anymore.

>

> I don't know what my answer is as far as, if nada ever falls ill and needs me

to take care of her or something. I refuse to let her live with me (unless

somewhere along the line she miraculously decides to seek treatment for BPD and

is actively working to heal herself). So I guess my brothers and I would have to

find a home for her. If she hasn't done well by herself and saved enough

retirement, it might not be the best home in the world. I think, where I stand

right now, I won't let her starve or be homeless, but she won't live with me and

I'm also not going into poverty to feed and cloth her. But if things end up

being hard for her or less than she's dreamed, well, she's done that to herself.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Its because of the hardwired encoding in our brains that says " The Mother Is

Sacred. " Its so much a part of our DNA that the idea of cutting off contact

with one's own mother is met with the same shocked stares as though you just

announced that you decided to cut off part of your skull.

Me personally, I think the only way that other people might start to get it is

if we said something like, " My mother raped me " which would be a lie in the

physical sense, but true in the metaphorical sense. Except in my case, where

mine actually did commit something like a sadistic quasi-rape on me when I was

about 4, that is burned into my brain in high relief, and which I still can't

bring myself to discuss and which was a turning point in my life; I think that's

what " broke " me.

So, no: most people Do Not Get It, because Mother Is Sacred.

(That PDF file that Girscout posted a link to goes into this phenomenon

somewhat. Its fascinating.)

-Annie/anuria

>

> I too feel judgement from friends that have also seen the grief and hurt I

have suffered from Nada.

> A thought came to mind the other day. I am over trying to get them to get it.

So next time I am questioned or made to feel guilty I thought of a great

comeback.

> I thought I could say " Hey if I was in an abusive marriage that was bad for

me and my wellbeing and state of mind, I am sure you would encourage me to

leave and get a divorce.

> That is exactly what I have done with my mother..... got a DIVORCE. " Let's

face it, why is our mothers any different to our husbands that we have also got

children to. Even if we don't have marriage or children and are in an unhealthy

relationship I am sure they would all be batting for us to stand up and walk

away.

> It just doesn't make sense to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> Kazam x

[Guest guest]

Doesn't matter what people think.

----------

Please excuse any typos or terseness, this message was sent from a mobile

device.

Re: No guilt.....and feeling guilty???

I too feel judgement from friends that have also seen the grief and hurt I have

suffered from Nada.

A thought came to mind the other day. I am over trying to get them to get it.

So next time I am questioned or made to feel guilty I thought of a great

comeback.

I thought I could say " Hey if I was in an abusive marriage that was bad for me

and my wellbeing and state of mind, I am sure you would encourage me to leave

and get a divorce.

That is exactly what I have done with my mother..... got a DIVORCE. " Let's face

it, why is our mothers any different to our husbands that we have also got

children to. Even if we don't have marriage or children and are in an unhealthy

relationship I am sure they would all be batting for us to stand up and walk

away.

It just doesn't make sense to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kazam x

>

> Hi AJ,

>

> Yes, I think we all get it. It's because to them, it's your MOTHER. That old

sacred word, which to us is equivalent to MONSTER!

>

> I guess my understanding is you feel guilty because of this symbol-word MOTHER

and you feel like you should. I haven't been having feelings of guilt but of

loss and missing nada, but those have been alleviated when I remind myself that

the things I need, she can never and most likely will never give to me. Instead

she abuses and mistreats me, so there is nothing to feel guilty over. I'm sad

that I don't have a real mother, but I refuse to feel guilty anymore.

>

> I don't know what my answer is as far as, if nada ever falls ill and needs me

to take care of her or something. I refuse to let her live with me (unless

somewhere along the line she miraculously decides to seek treatment for BPD and

is actively working to heal herself). So I guess my brothers and I would have to

find a home for her. If she hasn't done well by herself and saved enough

retirement, it might not be the best home in the world. I think, where I stand

right now, I won't let her starve or be homeless, but she won't live with me and

I'm also not going into poverty to feed and cloth her. But if things end up

being hard for her or less than she's dreamed, well, she's done that to herself.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, this would be a great comeback. I highly recommend " divorcing " abusive

parents.

Annie

> >

> > Hi AJ,

> >

> > Yes, I think we all get it. It's because to them, it's your MOTHER. That old

sacred word, which to us is equivalent to MONSTER!

> >

> > I guess my understanding is you feel guilty because of this symbol-word

MOTHER and you feel like you should. I haven't been having feelings of guilt but

of loss and missing nada, but those have been alleviated when I remind myself

that the things I need, she can never and most likely will never give to me.

Instead she abuses and mistreats me, so there is nothing to feel guilty over.

I'm sad that I don't have a real mother, but I refuse to feel guilty anymore.

> >

> > I don't know what my answer is as far as, if nada ever falls ill and needs

me to take care of her or something. I refuse to let her live with me (unless

somewhere along the line she miraculously decides to seek treatment for BPD and

is actively working to heal herself). So I guess my brothers and I would have to

find a home for her. If she hasn't done well by herself and saved enough

retirement, it might not be the best home in the world. I think, where I stand

right now, I won't let her starve or be homeless, but she won't live with me and

I'm also not going into poverty to feed and cloth her. But if things end up

being hard for her or less than she's dreamed, well, she's done that to herself.

> >

> >

> >

>