Guest guest Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Hi everybody, I have never been part of a group like this so please forgive any horrible breaches of netiquette. I'm a young working adult, graduated from college a couple years ago, recently married. Partially estranged from my mom since I was in high school and moved in with a boyfriend's family since I was living alone with my mom and we had no place to live (we got kicked out of the place we were renting since my mom wasn't working and my minimum-wage jobs didn't pay the bills). It took me a long time to realize that the things my mom told me (example: our dad was bugging the house, a storm knocked out our power) often weren't true and that her erratic behavior (couldn't hold down a job, extremely critical, irresponsible with money, emotional issues, etc) was abnormal. A couple years ago my dad and older sister came to the conclusion my mom probably had bpd. She sort of disappeared for a while in college and I couldn't find her. Since then, I've heard from her a few times over the last few years-always when she needed something. I've tried to offer help in every way I could imagine including offering to go to therapy with her and financial help. She has only gotten more verbally/emotionally abusive. I'm pretty sure she also has some co-morbid paranoia/psychotic problems. She thinks my sister, my dad, and I are involved in some kind of conspiracy/criminal organization with the gov't and 9-11 and are sending hit men to kill her etc. etc. She won't open the mail cause she thinks somebody is reading it. She has a problem with money and shopping. I found thousands of dollars worth of lingerie that she bought and left at my grandma's house. She was living off of an ex-boyfriend for a while. I think she has been self-medicating with ritalin that she got illegally through her mom's medicare and I don't know what else... I am not sure if she is currently homeless because she won't tell me where she lives and gave me a PO box for her address. However, my mom is surprisingly high-functioning considering her extreme paranoia, extremely intelligent, successfully manipulative and can be quite personable/warm at times (or at least, she used to be). I think she got fired from her last job about 5 years ago because of her paranoia issues and I don't know if she has a job now. Again, she never answers any direct questions. Over the last year, my mom's 93 year old mother got really sick and ended up in the hospital. I ended up taking care of her for the last six months of her life because there was nobody else to do it-she was, in some ways, a difficult person, as well. She was afraid of my mom, though and disinherited her, and put me in charge of her estate. Managing the estate takes up a huge portion of my time these days and causes a LOT of stress. I have an older sister (who tried a couple years ago to develop a relationship with mom but gave up) but she gets angry and upset anytime I mention our mom or grandmother. We used to be really, really close but the last year or so has put a big strain on our relationship. Occasionally she will agree to help with something for the management of the estate but usually gets angry and upset when I follow-up with her about actually doing it. My dad equally does not like to talk about my mom. He has been happily remarried for the last 6 or 7 years and I don't like to bring up something so obviously painful for him. I have recently started going to therapy for the first time as an adult. I think it will really help me to get over some of my issues with guilt and the feeling of constantly disappointing people no matter what I do. The current situation is this: I want to help my mom. Even if it's just financially and she can never be a happy, mentally-sound person. I don't want her to end up on the streets again. There is sufficient money in my grandmother's estate to take care of her but it is impossible to have a meaningful communication with my mom. I say " I want to help you " . She writes back " you are evil " . I am trying to get her to take her stuff out of grandma's house because I have to sell it according to my grandma's will. (My mom moved herself and all her things into my grandmother's house a couple years ago and threw out all of my grandma's belongings. She wanted to fix up my grandma's house so she had my grandma write her blank checks. My grandma kicked her out eventually) but she refuses and I think she might sue me if she can get enough money. The lawyer I hired to help with the estate says to call Social Services and try to have a conservatorship appointed for my mom. For legal reference, my mom lives in the state of Virginia. I really, really do not want to be my mom's guardian/conservator for a number of reasons. But I also don't want her to end up homeless and increasingly psychotic. My mom adamantly denies that she has any problems. She says that I am psychotic, have OCD, etc etc. but that there is nothing wrong with her except for all the people victimizing her. Does anybody have any positive experiences or suggestions??? Wow. This turned out to be incredibly long. Sorry. I just really don't have anybody to talk to about this stuff who understands. Please, please comment if anybody reads this whole post. You have no idea how much it would mean to me to hear from somebody else who has been through this. --J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Hi J, and welcome to the group. Like you, I recently graduated from college and recently got married. (working full time and going to grad school 2/3rds time) Some of the lingo you'll see here is " nada " and " fada. " Nada means " not a mom " and fada is a spinoff of that. The point of it is that our moms and dads were too concerned with themselves and too sick to raise us, too sick to be a real parent. " Mom " and " dad " is not something people automatically get when they have children--it's a title EARNED. And quite frankly, your mom was not a mother to you, so she is a nada. For example, instead of your nada caring for you and being a mother, YOU were the one caring for her. Your minimum wage was going towards a house that you guys were renting, because your nada couldn't pay for it herself. She comes to you to take care of her only when she needs stuff. She's acting like a child, and forcing you to be HER parent. That's twisted, especially since she is an adult and she's perfectly capable of taking care of herself. We often say on here that our nadas and fadas are emotionally like toddlers. They never grew out of the toddler emotional state, though they physically grew up. That helps me to put my fada in perspective--he was the one who disowned me because he thought I was " bad " and didn't love him, because I was trying to put boundaries on our unhealthy relationship. How like a toddler. This may seem tough, but from what I've learned while on this board--your nada will never change. You keep offering to help her, but she keeps hurting you instead, projecting her own feelings on you. When she called you crazy and OCD and evil--that's probably how she sees herself--but instead of being rational, she twists reality around and projects it onto you. You do NOT deserve to be constantly hurt by your nada. You deserve a GOOD life. You do NOT have to take care of your nada--she can take care of herself if she so wishes. I know you want to help your nada. We all wish so. I always wanted to help my fada (he's very bad with money). But the bottom line is you can not, and you should not have to help your nada, when she won't first help herself. It'd be just as effective flushing the money from your grandma's estate down the toilet, to be blunt. Take care of yourself first. Manage your own stresses, do what you need with your grandma's estate. Take care of your marriage--that's more important than trying to make your nada better. I'm glad you're in therapy And i'm sure that others on this group will soon chime in with their own stories and advice Sorry for being blunt, Holly On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 6:06 PM, ethnobotanyfriend < ethnobotanyfriend@...> wrote: > > > Hi everybody, > > I have never been part of a group like this so please forgive any horrible > breaches of netiquette. > > I'm a young working adult, graduated from college a couple years ago, > recently married. Partially estranged from my mom since I was in high school > and moved in with a boyfriend's family since I was living alone with my mom > and we had no place to live (we got kicked out of the place we were renting > since my mom wasn't working and my minimum-wage jobs didn't pay the bills). > > It took me a long time to realize that the things my mom told me (example: > our dad was bugging the house, a storm knocked out our power) often weren't > true and that her erratic behavior (couldn't hold down a job, extremely > critical, irresponsible with money, emotional issues, etc) was abnormal. A > couple years ago my dad and older sister came to the conclusion my mom > probably had bpd. She sort of disappeared for a while in college and I > couldn't find her. > > Since then, I've heard from her a few times over the last few years-always > when she needed something. I've tried to offer help in every way I could > imagine including offering to go to therapy with her and financial help. She > has only gotten more verbally/emotionally abusive. I'm pretty sure she also > has some co-morbid paranoia/psychotic problems. She thinks my sister, my > dad, and I are involved in some kind of conspiracy/criminal organization > with the gov't and 9-11 and are sending hit men to kill her etc. etc. She > won't open the mail cause she thinks somebody is reading it. > > She has a problem with money and shopping. I found thousands of dollars > worth of lingerie that she bought and left at my grandma's house. She was > living off of an ex-boyfriend for a while. I think she has been > self-medicating with ritalin that she got illegally through her mom's > medicare and I don't know what else... I am not sure if she is currently > homeless because she won't tell me where she lives and gave me a PO box for > her address. > > However, my mom is surprisingly high-functioning considering her extreme > paranoia, extremely intelligent, successfully manipulative and can be quite > personable/warm at times (or at least, she used to be). I think she got > fired from her last job about 5 years ago because of her paranoia issues and > I don't know if she has a job now. Again, she never answers any direct > questions. > > Over the last year, my mom's 93 year old mother got really sick and ended > up in the hospital. I ended up taking care of her for the last six months of > her life because there was nobody else to do it-she was, in some ways, a > difficult person, as well. She was afraid of my mom, though and disinherited > her, and put me in charge of her estate. Managing the estate takes up a huge > portion of my time these days and causes a LOT of stress. > > I have an older sister (who tried a couple years ago to develop a > relationship with mom but gave up) but she gets angry and upset anytime I > mention our mom or grandmother. We used to be really, really close but the > last year or so has put a big strain on our relationship. Occasionally she > will agree to help with something for the management of the estate but > usually gets angry and upset when I follow-up with her about actually doing > it. > > My dad equally does not like to talk about my mom. He has been happily > remarried for the last 6 or 7 years and I don't like to bring up something > so obviously painful for him. > > I have recently started going to therapy for the first time as an adult. I > think it will really help me to get over some of my issues with guilt and > the feeling of constantly disappointing people no matter what I do. > > The current situation is this: I want to help my mom. Even if it's just > financially and she can never be a happy, mentally-sound person. I don't > want her to end up on the streets again. There is sufficient money in my > grandmother's estate to take care of her but it is impossible to have a > meaningful communication with my mom. I say " I want to help you " . She writes > back " you are evil " . > > I am trying to get her to take her stuff out of grandma's house because I > have to sell it according to my grandma's will. (My mom moved herself and > all her things into my grandmother's house a couple years ago and threw out > all of my grandma's belongings. She wanted to fix up my grandma's house so > she had my grandma write her blank checks. My grandma kicked her out > eventually) but she refuses and I think she might sue me if she can get > enough money. > > The lawyer I hired to help with the estate says to call Social Services and > try to have a conservatorship appointed for my mom. For legal reference, my > mom lives in the state of Virginia. I really, really do not want to be my > mom's guardian/conservator for a number of reasons. But I also don't want > her to end up homeless and increasingly psychotic. > > My mom adamantly denies that she has any problems. She says that I am > psychotic, have OCD, etc etc. but that there is nothing wrong with her > except for all the people victimizing her. > > Does anybody have any positive experiences or suggestions??? > > Wow. This turned out to be incredibly long. Sorry. I just really don't have > anybody to talk to about this stuff who understands. Please, please comment > if anybody reads this whole post. You have no idea how much it would mean to > me to hear from somebody else who has been through this. > > --J > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Hi J, Welcome to the Group. I think that is so compassionate of you to want to try to help your mother, I can hear the frustration and worry and concern in your message. But as you have discovered, its not possible to make someone accept your help if they don't want it. Your mother may indeed have borderline pd and/or other mental health issues like paranoia (possibly due to bad drug interactions, or possibly due to schizophrenia) but as long as she is considered mentally competent, she has the right to choose whether to live on the street or not or whether to accept your help (anyone's help) or not. I hear you about not wanting to take on a conservatorship for her, though: taking on legal responsibility for her. I personally think its wise of you to not do that. My Sister and I are experiencing somewhat similar issues with our mother now, but to a much lesser degree. Our mother is elderly and has borderline pd (and likely other pds as well) and is now beginning to experience hallucinations and show her paranoia more openly. Delusional thinking is a trait of bpd, and she's shown it before but only rarely. Even so, my mother is considered mentally competent, and Sister and I can't make her do anything she doesn't have a mind to do. Unlike your mother, mine is very high-functioning and responsible with money, so, I don't have any personal experience to share with you in that regard. In any case, welcome to the Group. You've found a bunch of other people here who " get it. " -Annie > > Hi everybody, > > I have never been part of a group like this so please forgive any horrible breaches of netiquette. > > I'm a young working adult, graduated from college a couple years ago, recently married. Partially estranged from my mom since I was in high school and moved in with a boyfriend's family since I was living alone with my mom and we had no place to live (we got kicked out of the place we were renting since my mom wasn't working and my minimum-wage jobs didn't pay the bills). > > It took me a long time to realize that the things my mom told me (example: our dad was bugging the house, a storm knocked out our power) often weren't true and that her erratic behavior (couldn't hold down a job, extremely critical, irresponsible with money, emotional issues, etc) was abnormal. A couple years ago my dad and older sister came to the conclusion my mom probably had bpd. She sort of disappeared for a while in college and I couldn't find her. > > Since then, I've heard from her a few times over the last few years-always when she needed something. I've tried to offer help in every way I could imagine including offering to go to therapy with her and financial help. She has only gotten more verbally/emotionally abusive. I'm pretty sure she also has some co-morbid paranoia/psychotic problems. She thinks my sister, my dad, and I are involved in some kind of conspiracy/criminal organization with the gov't and 9-11 and are sending hit men to kill her etc. etc. She won't open the mail cause she thinks somebody is reading it. > > She has a problem with money and shopping. I found thousands of dollars worth of lingerie that she bought and left at my grandma's house. She was living off of an ex-boyfriend for a while. I think she has been self-medicating with ritalin that she got illegally through her mom's medicare and I don't know what else... I am not sure if she is currently homeless because she won't tell me where she lives and gave me a PO box for her address. > > However, my mom is surprisingly high-functioning considering her extreme paranoia, extremely intelligent, successfully manipulative and can be quite personable/warm at times (or at least, she used to be). I think she got fired from her last job about 5 years ago because of her paranoia issues and I don't know if she has a job now. Again, she never answers any direct questions. > > Over the last year, my mom's 93 year old mother got really sick and ended up in the hospital. I ended up taking care of her for the last six months of her life because there was nobody else to do it-she was, in some ways, a difficult person, as well. She was afraid of my mom, though and disinherited her, and put me in charge of her estate. Managing the estate takes up a huge portion of my time these days and causes a LOT of stress. > > I have an older sister (who tried a couple years ago to develop a relationship with mom but gave up) but she gets angry and upset anytime I mention our mom or grandmother. We used to be really, really close but the last year or so has put a big strain on our relationship. Occasionally she will agree to help with something for the management of the estate but usually gets angry and upset when I follow-up with her about actually doing it. > > My dad equally does not like to talk about my mom. He has been happily remarried for the last 6 or 7 years and I don't like to bring up something so obviously painful for him. > > I have recently started going to therapy for the first time as an adult. I think it will really help me to get over some of my issues with guilt and the feeling of constantly disappointing people no matter what I do. > > The current situation is this: I want to help my mom. Even if it's just financially and she can never be a happy, mentally-sound person. I don't want her to end up on the streets again. There is sufficient money in my grandmother's estate to take care of her but it is impossible to have a meaningful communication with my mom. I say " I want to help you " . She writes back " you are evil " . > > I am trying to get her to take her stuff out of grandma's house because I have to sell it according to my grandma's will. (My mom moved herself and all her things into my grandmother's house a couple years ago and threw out all of my grandma's belongings. She wanted to fix up my grandma's house so she had my grandma write her blank checks. My grandma kicked her out eventually) but she refuses and I think she might sue me if she can get enough money. > > The lawyer I hired to help with the estate says to call Social Services and try to have a conservatorship appointed for my mom. For legal reference, my mom lives in the state of Virginia. I really, really do not want to be my mom's guardian/conservator for a number of reasons. But I also don't want her to end up homeless and increasingly psychotic. > > My mom adamantly denies that she has any problems. She says that I am psychotic, have OCD, etc etc. but that there is nothing wrong with her except for all the people victimizing her. > > Does anybody have any positive experiences or suggestions??? > > > Wow. This turned out to be incredibly long. Sorry. I just really don't have anybody to talk to about this stuff who understands. Please, please comment if anybody reads this whole post. You have no idea how much it would mean to me to hear from somebody else who has been through this. > > --J > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Hi Botany, Wow, so sorry for all you've been through. You sound like an incredibly loyal and kind person. Lots of others would've jumped off that ship and given up on your mom. I haven't been through all you've been through. At most, the paranoid thinking is what I've experienced with my mother, on top of a bunch of other things. Has your mother been diagnosed with BPD? (just asking; my mother has not but reading about it has cemented to me that she suffers from it) From your description, I wonder if your mother also may suffer from bipolar disorder. I'm not a psychologist/psychiatrist; I just read a LOT about these things. I guess it doesn't really matter what she has; she obviously is impulsive/erratic/paranoid/moody, again, from your description. I think your lawyer's advice was spot on and I truly can't think of what more you could do. It sounds like your mother doesn't want to be helped. I know it's hard to turn your back on someone who's in dire need of help/mental aid, but if you're getting sick/stressed in the middle of it, you might need to wait till she reaches out to you again. Just my thoughts after reading your email. Again, so sorry for your troubles. Please take care of yourself. Fiona > > Hi everybody, > > I have never been part of a group like this so please forgive any horrible breaches of netiquette. > > I'm a young working adult, graduated from college a couple years ago, recently married. Partially estranged from my mom since I was in high school and moved in with a boyfriend's family since I was living alone with my mom and we had no place to live (we got kicked out of the place we were renting since my mom wasn't working and my minimum-wage jobs didn't pay the bills). > > It took me a long time to realize that the things my mom told me (example: our dad was bugging the house, a storm knocked out our power) often weren't true and that her erratic behavior (couldn't hold down a job, extremely critical, irresponsible with money, emotional issues, etc) was abnormal. A couple years ago my dad and older sister came to the conclusion my mom probably had bpd. She sort of disappeared for a while in college and I couldn't find her. > > Since then, I've heard from her a few times over the last few years-always when she needed something. I've tried to offer help in every way I could imagine including offering to go to therapy with her and financial help. She has only gotten more verbally/emotionally abusive. I'm pretty sure she also has some co-morbid paranoia/psychotic problems. She thinks my sister, my dad, and I are involved in some kind of conspiracy/criminal organization with the gov't and 9-11 and are sending hit men to kill her etc. etc. She won't open the mail cause she thinks somebody is reading it. > > She has a problem with money and shopping. I found thousands of dollars worth of lingerie that she bought and left at my grandma's house. She was living off of an ex-boyfriend for a while. I think she has been self-medicating with ritalin that she got illegally through her mom's medicare and I don't know what else... I am not sure if she is currently homeless because she won't tell me where she lives and gave me a PO box for her address. > > However, my mom is surprisingly high-functioning considering her extreme paranoia, extremely intelligent, successfully manipulative and can be quite personable/warm at times (or at least, she used to be). I think she got fired from her last job about 5 years ago because of her paranoia issues and I don't know if she has a job now. Again, she never answers any direct questions. > > Over the last year, my mom's 93 year old mother got really sick and ended up in the hospital. I ended up taking care of her for the last six months of her life because there was nobody else to do it-she was, in some ways, a difficult person, as well. She was afraid of my mom, though and disinherited her, and put me in charge of her estate. Managing the estate takes up a huge portion of my time these days and causes a LOT of stress. > > I have an older sister (who tried a couple years ago to develop a relationship with mom but gave up) but she gets angry and upset anytime I mention our mom or grandmother. We used to be really, really close but the last year or so has put a big strain on our relationship. Occasionally she will agree to help with something for the management of the estate but usually gets angry and upset when I follow-up with her about actually doing it. > > My dad equally does not like to talk about my mom. He has been happily remarried for the last 6 or 7 years and I don't like to bring up something so obviously painful for him. > > I have recently started going to therapy for the first time as an adult. I think it will really help me to get over some of my issues with guilt and the feeling of constantly disappointing people no matter what I do. > > The current situation is this: I want to help my mom. Even if it's just financially and she can never be a happy, mentally-sound person. I don't want her to end up on the streets again. There is sufficient money in my grandmother's estate to take care of her but it is impossible to have a meaningful communication with my mom. I say " I want to help you " . She writes back " you are evil " . > > I am trying to get her to take her stuff out of grandma's house because I have to sell it according to my grandma's will. (My mom moved herself and all her things into my grandmother's house a couple years ago and threw out all of my grandma's belongings. She wanted to fix up my grandma's house so she had my grandma write her blank checks. My grandma kicked her out eventually) but she refuses and I think she might sue me if she can get enough money. > > The lawyer I hired to help with the estate says to call Social Services and try to have a conservatorship appointed for my mom. For legal reference, my mom lives in the state of Virginia. I really, really do not want to be my mom's guardian/conservator for a number of reasons. But I also don't want her to end up homeless and increasingly psychotic. > > My mom adamantly denies that she has any problems. She says that I am psychotic, have OCD, etc etc. but that there is nothing wrong with her except for all the people victimizing her. > > Does anybody have any positive experiences or suggestions??? > > > Wow. This turned out to be incredibly long. Sorry. I just really don't have anybody to talk to about this stuff who understands. Please, please comment if anybody reads this whole post. You have no idea how much it would mean to me to hear from somebody else who has been through this. > > --J > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Hi, J. As I see it, there are two separate issues here. One is your very real fiduciary responsibility as executor of your grandmother's estate. The other is your emotional, self-imposed wish to assist your mother. Might I suggest that you pursue these goals without making them one and the same? Here's what I mean - you MUST do what your grandmother's estate required. You took on that role, so you have to finish going through the probate process. Your attorney can guide you through this. If that requires you to have your mother's stuff hauled out of the house, and you are authorized as executor to do whatever is necessary to liquidate the assets of the estate, then you do what you have to do. You don't ask permission. You give her as much warning as you can, but then you get the moving crew in there, clean the place out, and sell it. If your grandmother left provisions for some of the money to go to your mother, then fine, put it in an account so it will be there for her. Otherwise, make the distributions as required of you, then - only then - if there's anything left, you could put it into an account for use once your mom hits bottom and has to be put into assisted living, or a care facility, or whatever is available to her. That will take a HUGE amount of pressure off you, because by that time you may have financial and family obligations of your own, and you will have a way to be sure she's looked after without having to drain your own family's financial resources. Will she raise hell? Sure. But long term, she'll have a roof over her head when/if she needs it, and you won't have frittered away the estate's value by trying to play two roles - executor and KO (Kid Of a crazy BPD) - at the same time. I'd say talk to your lawyer, be sure you're operating within the authority and responsibility of your role as executor, and Nada's tantrums be damned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Hi to everybody who responded, Thank you so much. With your help and my husband's help (and the therapist's help), I am going to try to do what you all suggested. I am going to try to love my mom from a distance and deal with the estate for now. Of course, I'll still have to deal with getting her stuff out of my grandma's house. And I am really hoping her ex-boyfriend isn't still giving her money so she can try to sue me... I doubt he is still supporting her though. And I imagine the case would get thrown out pretty fast considering her past attempts at suing various members of the family... : / Anyway, thank you for the unconditional support! It is so nice just hear other people's stories and know that this is real and we can move on and get better. Sending out my love and appreciation to all of you, J > > > > Hi, J. As I see it, there are two separate issues here. One is your very real fiduciary responsibility as executor of your grandmother's estate. The other is your emotional, self-imposed wish to assist your mother. Might I suggest that you pursue these goals without making them one and the same? Here's what I mean - you MUST do what your grandmother's estate required. You took on that role, so you have to finish going through the probate process. Your attorney can guide you through this. If that requires you to have your mother's stuff hauled out of the house, and you are authorized as executor to do whatever is necessary to liquidate the assets of the estate, then you do what you have to do. You don't ask permission. You give her as much warning as you can, but then you get the moving crew in there, clean the place out, and sell it. If your grandmother left provisions for some of the money to go to your mother, then fine, put it in an account so it will be there for her. Otherwise, make the distributions as required of you, then - only then - if there's anything left, you could put it into an account for use once your mom hits bottom and has to be put into assisted living, or a care facility, or whatever is available to her. That will take a HUGE amount of pressure off you, because by that time you may have financial and family obligations of your own, and you will have a way to be sure she's looked after without having to drain your own family's financial resources. > > Will she raise hell? Sure. But long term, she'll have a roof over her head when/if she needs it, and you won't have frittered away the estate's value by trying to play two roles - executor and KO (Kid Of a crazy BPD) - at the same time. > > I'd say talk to your lawyer, be sure you're operating within the authority and responsibility of your role as executor, and Nada's tantrums be damned. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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