Perfectionism

[Guest guest]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfectionism_(psychology)

Yeah, this is me. Esp about this part " By being constantly vigilant and

trying extremely hard, they can ensure that they not only fail to disappoint

or are beyond reproach but that they can protect against unforeseen issues

(such as economic downturn). " Being beyond reproach has always been the

goal.

[Guest guest]

That snippet you posted sounds like me too. But, keep in mind that usually

" perfectionism " is maladaptive, like the article says. I don't think we're

so much maladaptive perfectionists as we are conditioned to protect

ourselves against the unforeseen especially since we never knew when " the

turn " was coming from our nadas & fadas. We also tend to be hypervigilant

due to our chaotic childhood experiences. I have wondered if I'm a

maladaptive perfectionist... I have been working my arse off in school and

it shows in my GPA. But, I also do not expect to keep a 4.0... it'd be darn

cool if I could do it, but nursing school is hard! And it's OK if I don't

keep a 4.0! I really very honestly just want to do my best. I think one of

the reasons that I am trying so hard though is to prove to myself and in

some ways to my nada (even though I'm NC with her) that I AM NOT STUPID (she

constantly told me I was) and that I CAN be a competent nurse, which is

contrary to what she said to me when I initially wanted to go to nursing

school at 19 years old. ( " YOU? A nurse??? *scoff* I'd never let YOU take

care of ME " )

Anyway... I can see how KOs could have traits of perfectionism. But, I can

also see how our experiences could contribute to those traits. The key, I

think, is to not let yourself be a slave to being perfect. Allow yourself

to make mistakes. We're human & it's bound to happen and it really is ok to

make them!

*Hugs*

Mia

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 7:30 PM, Girlscout Cowboy <

girlscout.cowboy@...> wrote:

>

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfectionism_(psychology)

>

> Yeah, this is me. Esp about this part " By being constantly vigilant and

> trying extremely hard, they can ensure that they not only fail to

> disappoint

> or are beyond reproach but that they can protect against unforeseen issues

> (such as economic downturn). " Being beyond reproach has always been the

> goal.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I like that term " Maladaptive perfectionist. " That describes me pretty well. I

try so hard to control things cuz I had very little control over anything

growing up. Then I avoid the things that I can't control.

>

> >

> >

> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfectionism_(psychology)

> >

> > Yeah, this is me. Esp about this part " By being constantly vigilant and

> > trying extremely hard, they can ensure that they not only fail to

> > disappoint

> > or are beyond reproach but that they can protect against unforeseen issues

> > (such as economic downturn). " Being beyond reproach has always been the

> > goal.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

My nada told me I didn't need to take meds for my migraines... this after seeing

her mom suffer from migraines for years and after seeing me suffer with them for

years also. I told her we could talk about it next time she had a migraine.

>

> >

> >

> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfectionism_(psychology)

> >

> > Yeah, this is me. Esp about this part " By being constantly vigilant and

> > trying extremely hard, they can ensure that they not only fail to

> > disappoint

> > or are beyond reproach but that they can protect against unforeseen issues

> > (such as economic downturn). " Being beyond reproach has always been the

> > goal.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Me personally, I see a big difference in being a perfectionist about your own

self, and expecting perfection from others.

I don't see anything wrong with having high standards for yourself; I am

something of a perfectionist when it comes to my work.

But when the perfectionism is laid on others, the way my nada had unrealistic

expectations of perfection from me and Sister and dad, then, I think that is

both unfair and damaging to others. That puts kids especially in a no-win

situation, in which nothing they can possibly do is ever good enough. Very

corrosive to the child's self-esteem.

But it sounds to me like we KOs here can keep our perfectionistic traits

restrained and controllable. I compartmentalize my perfectionism, these days.

My kitchen and bathrooms have to be perfectly clean, and the garbage taken out,

but I am more relaxed about clutter. I do my professional work to my high

standards, but, I don't always pay my bills on time. So, I've chosen specific

areas in which to indulge my perfectionism and let other areas go.

So maybe that is " adaptive perfectionism. " ?

-Annie

> >

> > That snippet you posted sounds like me too. But, keep in mind that usually

> > " perfectionism " is maladaptive, like the article says. I don't think we're

> > so much maladaptive perfectionists as we are conditioned to protect

> > ourselves against the unforeseen especially since we never knew when " the

> > turn " was coming from our nadas & fadas. We also tend to be hypervigilant

> > due to our chaotic childhood experiences. I have wondered if I'm a

> > maladaptive perfectionist... I have been working my arse off in school and

> > it shows in my GPA. But, I also do not expect to keep a 4.0... it'd be darn

> > cool if I could do it, but nursing school is hard! And it's OK if I don't

> > keep a 4.0! I really very honestly just want to do my best. I think one of

> > the reasons that I am trying so hard though is to prove to myself and in

> > some ways to my nada (even though I'm NC with her) that I AM NOT STUPID (she

> > constantly told me I was) and that I CAN be a competent nurse, which is

> > contrary to what she said to me when I initially wanted to go to nursing

> > school at 19 years old. ( " YOU? A nurse??? *scoff* I'd never let YOU take

> > care of ME " )

> >

> > Anyway... I can see how KOs could have traits of perfectionism. But, I can

> > also see how our experiences could contribute to those traits. The key, I

> > think, is to not let yourself be a slave to being perfect. Allow yourself

> > to make mistakes. We're human & it's bound to happen and it really is ok to

> > make them!

> >

> > *Hugs*

> >

> > Mia

[Guest guest]

Well, I sort of disagree about keeping our own perfectionism under control. Mine

has been way out of control the past few years, to the point of obsessiveness,

and I've been working on it with my T. But I think it's definitely borne of

growing up with a nada. Here's some more of the wiki page that really describes

me, and I found it really disturbing that I do fit this description. My comments

are in caps.

" Normal perfectionists " derive a very real sense of pleasure from the labours of

a painstaking effort " SO NORMAL PPL FEEL THIS AND IT'S HEALTHY while neurotic

perfectionists are " unable to feel satisfaction because in their own eyes they

never seem to do things [well] enough to warrant that feeling of satisfaction " .

THIS SCARES ME THAT IT REALLY DESCRIBES HOW I FEEL EXACTLY. IT DOESN'T MATTER

HOW WELL I DO SOMETHING, IF IT'S NOT THE LEVEL I EXPECT TO ACHIEVE AT, I CANNOT

TAKE SATISFACTION IN IT. HOWEVER, I HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH T TO CHANGE THIS, AND

IT HAS GOTTEN A LOT BETTER. A LOT! Burns defines perfectionists as " people who

strain compulsively and unremittingly toward impossible goals and who measure

their own worth entirely in terms of productivity and accomplishment " . YUP,

THAT'S ME. ESPECIALLY STRIVING TOWARDS IMPOSSIBLE GOALS THAT I SET FOR MYSELF>

OR AT LEAST UNREASONABLE.

Greenspon considers perfectionism to be unitary combination of a desire to be

perfect, a fear of imperfection, and an emotional conviction that perfection

(not " near-perfection " ) is the only route to personal acceptance by others.

Perfectionism itself is thus never seen as healthy or adaptive. I WILL ADMIT

THAT, YES, SOMETIMES I FEEL LIKE IF I'M NOT PERFECT I CANNOT BE ACCEPTED BY

OTHERS OR WILL NOT BE LIKED.

In the book Too Perfect, the authors describe perfectionists as having obsessive

personality types. The obsessive personality type is distinct from

obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD); OCD is a clinical disorder that may be

associated with specific ritualized behavior. According to Mallinger and DeWyze,

perfectionists are obsessives who need to feel in control at all times to

protect themselves and ensure their own safety. WELL WHEN YOU GROW UP WITH NADA

AND ARE THE GOLDEN CHILD, YOU ENSURE YOUR SAFETY BY BEING PERFECT. IT IS EXACTLY

HOW YOU PROTECT YOURSELF. SO NO WONDER IT WOULD CREATE A CONDITION LIKE ME. By

being constantly vigilant and trying extremely hard, they can ensure that they

not only fail to disappoint or are beyond reproach but that they can protect

against unforeseen issues (such as economic downturn).

My neurotic perfectionism has only risen to the height of neuroticism in the

past couple of years. And seeing a therapist the past month has really opened my

eyes to what I'm doing to myself and I'm starting to get back to that healthy

perfectionism, which is just striving to do something really well, but accepting

if it's not perfect. As I told a friend yesterday, I'm trying to categorize

things as either victories or lessons (and lessons are victories) rather than

successes or failures or mistakes. I'm trying to take the word failure or

mistake as a stamp of approval or disapproval out of my language. And this past

week, after finally completing my 10 things I like about myself exercise, and

going through the trauma of having to complete it, I have actually realized that

I can like myself, even if I'm not perfect, and I can be happy. I still have a

lot of work to do, but I totally understand this unhealthy perfectionism and how

it comes about. It's certainly not on purpose, AND even when I was being so

neurotic about perfection and reaching my goals, I didn't WANT to be so hard on

myself. I wanted to be able to forgive myself or just recognize that it's not a

failure to be forgiven anyhow, but I just couldn't. It's so hard even for me to

understand why I just couldn't. I guess it makes me feel a little sympathy for

BPDs, because they have trouble controlling their behavior, and we ask why they

can't just control it when they want to, not just when it serves their purposes?

But I couldn't control my obsessive perfectionism, even though I wanted to.

And the thing is, 4 weeks ago, I wouldn't have said my perfectionism was

obsessive or unhealthy. It's actually sort of scary. And in a way, I have to be

thankful for being confronted with nada's behavior at Christmas, otherwise I

would have never known about this site, and never been encouraged to seek

therapy.

[Guest guest]

I like the fact that you are not a perfectionist about everything. I think that

is realistic and healthy. Sometimes, especially for us KO's being a

perfectionist can be a form of self-hatred or dislike. Our parents pushed us to

be perfect (slaves) for them and to satisfy their every need and nothing we did

was good enough, and somehow we keep pushing ourselves and even though we may be

close to perfect it is not good enough so instead of rewarding ourselves and

liking ourselves for all the things we do rigt, we focus on what we can't do.

You seem to have things in perspective and can be happy with your clean kitchen

and happy with not always paying bills on time. Congratulations.

I am in special ed and I can walk down the hallway of my rather large 2000

student high school, with close to a 100 teachers and I can point out four of us

who are KO's some of us know it and some of us don't but after sharing childhood

stories I know. 3 of us are special ed and we work our tails off. It seems like

we thrive in the sp ed environment where no matter how much we do, (the parents

of our special ed kids are not satisfied) I have caught myself repeating

patterns for my students that Fada set up in childhood. I will spend hours at

home making materials for my students. ( With the help of this group) I am

finally figuring out why I will push myself beyond my limits for these kids.

sometimes it makes a difference for my students and sometimes it doesn't, but

the patterns of not being able to do enough were established in childhood by

Fada. Because as we all know our best is never good enough.

If you can tame the perfectionism it is great but if not examine the

perfectionism and make sure it is not an excuse to dislike yourself. I can't

meet my perfectionist goals so there must be something wrong with me, if you

think that way, go back and try to climb out of the trap nada and fada laid so

long ago.

Kay