Guest guest Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 You know what, you're absolutely right.There's many times where fada would say he was joking, but then I knew and he knew he was lying. But we all played the game. The clearest example i have is of how fada always told me, growing up, that I would have to pay for my own wedding. He and nada paid for theirs by themselves, so therefore I would have to pay for my own. Okay. I was fine with that. I'll just save up money. I was glad he told me. Also, my mom told me all along that she wanted to make me my wedding dress, since she is a great sewer and used to be a seamstress. I was happy for that. Then came the time when I was actually engaged and DH and I set about planning the wedding. We thought, okay $2000 we can handle as our maximum total budget. Let's work with that. (We were both students, and though the wedding was after our graduation, that doesn't mean we'd have the money for it at any point along the way.) My mom came over one day to my house with my roomie, and we were talking about wedding plans. I told her everything Jeff and I already pretty much planned for the very simple wedding. And I even had a fairly simple wedding dress pattern picked out already and asked her if she wouldn't mind making my dress, since she had promised all along. I even told her how DH and I wanted to walk down the aisle together, since I didn't like the whole idea of being given away like chattel--that always seemed weird. Besides, it was our joint decision to get married, so why not jointly walk down the aisle and back? Mom kept asking questions about this and that, like photography, etc. We told her of our budget, and she wondered, $2k for the photography? No, 2k for the ENTIRE wedding. She seemed extremly confused by my responses. Anyway, apparently when my mom went home she was crying a whole bunch. I have no idea what she told Fada, and I have no idea what Fada thought he heard from my mom. He said in an email shortly thereafter that he was only joking about not paying for the wedding and wanted to help pay for it. Also, why didn't I ask him for help in planning the wedding? He after all had 5 older sisters who all got married and so he's been to tons of Catholic weddings so why didn't I tap his knowledge? How could you joke about something for so long, without ever saying " just kidding " or " we'll help you as we can " or anything like that? No, he was dead serious all along when I was growing up. Also, apparently fada thought I was starting to just boss people around by asking my mom to make my dress and stuff. NO! freaking no, mom always said she wanted to make my dress, and though I was happy buying one, I wanted to make HER happy. Anyway, fada was all butthurt by the whole thing and even called me a radical liberal feminist for wanting to go to the altar with my husband as equals in the marriage, rather than being given away by him, and I was brainwashed by radical liberal feminist priests. That, to him, was an insult of the highest order, the worst he could say to me, apparently. Until 4 days after our engagement, he sent another couple emails which ended up being the disownment emails. Great way to throw a damper on the wedding. Well, fuck him. DH and his family were all awesome, so was my parish priest (great guy) and his pastor (also great guy). And DH and I kept the costs of the wedding to approximately $500. Total. Fuck you, Fada. Had enough of your " jokes. " Holly > > > > I have noticed a recurrant theme in recent posts that I thought worth it > s own thread. > > Many of us report having experienced nada s technique of saying > thoughtless or cruel things to us, and then rationalizing or minimizing > it afterwards. 2 of the more common ways they do this are making it > seem a joke, or making it seem a failing in us if we don t accept it. > > The humor approach seems to come when they are hurling direct barbs at > the KO and we respond like a normal human being. Ouch. That hurt. Why > do you do that to me? > > Then we get the breezy, Oh lighten up, it was just a joke. > > This is nonsense. People sometimes us cruel humor as a defense or as a > way of attacking without seeming to do so. In the case of nada s, they > do this over and over, even after being told, begged, pleaded with, not > to go there any more becasue it really hurts. > > The other approach, that it is a failing in us seems to be used more for > inappropriate comments or statements, usually of a sexual nature. If > we get uncomfortable or resentful at being told graphic intimate > details, or having them comment or discuss things about our sexuality > that are totally inappropriate, then we are treated to some form of " > Well I thought you were mature enought to handle this. " or, " I just > thought you ought to know this about your Mother. " > > Again, nonsense. I m fully mature enought to explore, discuss, or > engage in sexual talk, or sexuality, or sexual humor, teasing or > flirting. It is at times a very enjoyable part of life and my makeup. > I m a straight man, and flirting with women is one of my favorite things > to do. You members of the softer sex and a lot of fun, even if you are > totally indecipherable. > > But I do not want to engage in that part of my life and make up with my > mother. Period. Nor do I want to hear the details of that part of her > life. > > I finally had to set a boundary on it. She would blurt things out, and > when I objected, fall back to Well I just thought you ought to know. No > matter that I would say , each time, No, you are wrong. I do not need > to know. I do knot want to know. I DO know because you have assaulted > me with the information over and over, but I don t want to hear it from > your mouth again. Please stop. > > What I finally did was set a boundary. If she was being mean, I would > warn one time, then leave or hang up. It is Not a joke, and changing > your tune later won t make it a joke. If it were a joke, it is a joke at > my expense, and I m not going to endure it again. > > If it were sexually inappropriate talk, I would interupt, loudly, > intrusively, and warn her one time to stop it at once. If she pressed > on, I would leave or hang up, and enforce a few days of NC. > > She never learned. > > Doug > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 From what I've read, that kind of passive-aggressive (indirect, plausibly deniable) cruelty is more characteristic of narcissists and antisocial pds than borderlines. Passive-aggressive attacks are couched as " helpful advice " or " just a joke " , and the recipient who assertively points out that he or she has just been insulted is either " too sensitive " or mistaken: " I didn't say that, you misinterpreted what I said. " (Accountability is never accepted, you notice: its always the recipient of the insult who is blamed for being either a neurotic mess or hopelessly stupid.) The " too much information " thing (like a parent sharing with her child the details of her own sexual encounters or bowel movements) seems to me to be more of a lack of boundaries issue: the parent is unable to perceive where she leaves off and her child's individual self-hood begins; I would categorize that as more of a borderline pd issue. One time, after literally decades of having my nada make a particular passive-aggressive critical comment to me (regarding a physical flaw I can do nothing about) and me asking her to please stop mentioning it, and that having no effect at all, I finally used sarcasm. THAT worked for a really long time, but, nada did it again the last time I saw her. I wonder if, given the opportunity, I'd ever try it again? Most of the time when I was in contact with nada her stealth insults were so subtle that I wouldn't realize I'd been hit until some time afterward. (Dissociation?) My nada is a master of the stealth insult, the back-handed compliment, the negative comparison, cruelties masked as kindness. But if I did catch some little toxic zinger right in the moment, I wonder if I could parry with a wry smile, " Oh, mom, you're so cute when you're being passive-aggressive; just like a little baby tarantula! " -Annie > > > I have noticed a recurrant theme in recent posts that I thought worth it > s own thread. > > Many of us report having experienced nada s technique of saying > thoughtless or cruel things to us, and then rationalizing or minimizing > it afterwards. 2 of the more common ways they do this are making it > seem a joke, or making it seem a failing in us if we don t accept it. > > The humor approach seems to come when they are hurling direct barbs at > the KO and we respond like a normal human being. Ouch. That hurt. Why > do you do that to me? > > Then we get the breezy, Oh lighten up, it was just a joke. > > This is nonsense. People sometimes us cruel humor as a defense or as a > way of attacking without seeming to do so. In the case of nada s, they > do this over and over, even after being told, begged, pleaded with, not > to go there any more becasue it really hurts. > > > > The other approach, that it is a failing in us seems to be used more for > inappropriate comments or statements, usually of a sexual nature. If > we get uncomfortable or resentful at being told graphic intimate > details, or having them comment or discuss things about our sexuality > that are totally inappropriate, then we are treated to some form of " > Well I thought you were mature enought to handle this. " or, " I just > thought you ought to know this about your Mother. " > > Again, nonsense. I m fully mature enought to explore, discuss, or > engage in sexual talk, or sexuality, or sexual humor, teasing or > flirting. It is at times a very enjoyable part of life and my makeup. > I m a straight man, and flirting with women is one of my favorite things > to do. You members of the softer sex and a lot of fun, even if you are > totally indecipherable. > > But I do not want to engage in that part of my life and make up with my > mother. Period. Nor do I want to hear the details of that part of her > life. > > I finally had to set a boundary on it. She would blurt things out, and > when I objected, fall back to Well I just thought you ought to know. No > matter that I would say , each time, No, you are wrong. I do not need > to know. I do knot want to know. I DO know because you have assaulted > me with the information over and over, but I don t want to hear it from > your mouth again. Please stop. > > What I finally did was set a boundary. If she was being mean, I would > warn one time, then leave or hang up. It is Not a joke, and changing > your tune later won t make it a joke. If it were a joke, it is a joke at > my expense, and I m not going to endure it again. > > If it were sexually inappropriate talk, I would interupt, loudly, > intrusively, and warn her one time to stop it at once. If she pressed > on, I would leave or hang up, and enforce a few days of NC. > > She never learned. > > Doug > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 My nada is also master of the stealth attack. The only thing I've learned that kind of helps is to call her on it when I can. Doesn't keep her from saying really inappropriate things, but does sometimes get her to backtrack. Otherwise I get the " You're being too sensitive " response. > > > > > > I have noticed a recurrant theme in recent posts that I thought worth it > > s own thread. > > > > Many of us report having experienced nada s technique of saying > > thoughtless or cruel things to us, and then rationalizing or minimizing > > it afterwards. 2 of the more common ways they do this are making it > > seem a joke, or making it seem a failing in us if we don t accept it. > > > > The humor approach seems to come when they are hurling direct barbs at > > the KO and we respond like a normal human being. Ouch. That hurt. Why > > do you do that to me? > > > > Then we get the breezy, Oh lighten up, it was just a joke. > > > > This is nonsense. People sometimes us cruel humor as a defense or as a > > way of attacking without seeming to do so. In the case of nada s, they > > do this over and over, even after being told, begged, pleaded with, not > > to go there any more becasue it really hurts. > > > > > > > > The other approach, that it is a failing in us seems to be used more for > > inappropriate comments or statements, usually of a sexual nature. If > > we get uncomfortable or resentful at being told graphic intimate > > details, or having them comment or discuss things about our sexuality > > that are totally inappropriate, then we are treated to some form of " > > Well I thought you were mature enought to handle this. " or, " I just > > thought you ought to know this about your Mother. " > > > > Again, nonsense. I m fully mature enought to explore, discuss, or > > engage in sexual talk, or sexuality, or sexual humor, teasing or > > flirting. It is at times a very enjoyable part of life and my makeup. > > I m a straight man, and flirting with women is one of my favorite things > > to do. You members of the softer sex and a lot of fun, even if you are > > totally indecipherable. > > > > But I do not want to engage in that part of my life and make up with my > > mother. Period. Nor do I want to hear the details of that part of her > > life. > > > > I finally had to set a boundary on it. She would blurt things out, and > > when I objected, fall back to Well I just thought you ought to know. No > > matter that I would say , each time, No, you are wrong. I do not need > > to know. I do knot want to know. I DO know because you have assaulted > > me with the information over and over, but I don t want to hear it from > > your mouth again. Please stop. > > > > What I finally did was set a boundary. If she was being mean, I would > > warn one time, then leave or hang up. It is Not a joke, and changing > > your tune later won t make it a joke. If it were a joke, it is a joke at > > my expense, and I m not going to endure it again. > > > > If it were sexually inappropriate talk, I would interupt, loudly, > > intrusively, and warn her one time to stop it at once. If she pressed > > on, I would leave or hang up, and enforce a few days of NC. > > > > She never learned. > > > > Doug > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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