Is there anything I like about my mother?

[Guest guest]

This is a question that came up in my session with T last night. (FYI, the whole

session triggered me so badly, I called him early this morning and saw him again

before any of his other clients today.)

My answer was no. There is nothing about her that I like. I find all of her

actions and reactions to be manipulative--there is always an ulterior motive,

nothing is done just because she is a " good " person or because she cares about

me or someone else. There is always something in it for her, either outright or

underneath.

I would really love some backup on this.

[Guest guest]

My answer is no too. although she had me convinced otherwise. it was always

about her covertly.

 

Felicia Ward

Remember that people often have different perceptions of the same reality. You

can both be right, and no one has to be wrong, if each of you is willing to let

the other person have his or her perceptions and if both of you are willing to

compromise. 

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 11:57:50 AM

Subject: Is there anything I like about my mother?

 

This is a question that came up in my session with T last night. (FYI, the whole

session triggered me so badly, I called him early this morning and saw him again

before any of his other clients today.)

My answer was no. There is nothing about her that I like. I find all of her

actions and reactions to be manipulative--there is always an ulterior motive,

nothing is done just because she is a " good " person or because she cares about

me or someone else. There is always something in it for her, either outright or

underneath.

I would really love some backup on this.

[Guest guest]

I like her cooking. That's pretty much it.

[Guest guest]

I have a hard time answering this. There are things about my mother that I

admire, and she can sometimes be (outwardly, or seemingly) thoughtful, kind, and

considerate. But, I now question whether the loving things she's done came from

simple human kindness, or if there was always an ulterior motive that benefited

herself in some way. Was she just mimicking normal human behaviors because

she'd observed that that is what people do in order to blend in with normal

societal expectations?

I just don't know.

If you separate out the *extreme* and *perfectionistic* way she manifested the

following qualities (and the negative impact this had on me) I do admire her

being organized, neat and clean. She prided herself on being a good shopper,

able to find real bargains (quality goods at discount prices). She was very

responsible with money, spent it wisely and and invested it wisely. I admired

her ability to host social events. She has always kept herself well-groomed and

well-dressed in a understated way, and has that ability to be at ease, charming

and engaging in public. She was able to hold down a job when she wanted one and

was apparently well-thought-of at her work, although she never advanced to any

managerial positions.

She made sure that Sister and I always had what we needed RE clothes, shoes,

school supplies, etc. We had regular medical checkups and dental and eye-care.

She gave us extra-curricular activities like dance and music, etc. She cooked

and cleaned, fed us nutritious food, etc. In all the ways observable by the

public, she did seem to be the perfect mother.

I think that's why I stayed enmeshed for so long; the physical abuse stopped

when I was about 14, but the emotional abuse was so... subtle and mostly covert.

There was a pervasive extremely high expectation of perfection that neither I

nor Sister could ever meet. We were always inferior to her, never quite good

enough, always disappointing to her in some way or other. We weren't allowed to

be individuals or express feelings, thoughts or opinions that differed from

hers. We were never allowed to express anger in any way, even at things that

had nothing to do with nada! Negative emotions were interpreted as a criticism

of herself! (WTF?!) We had to be very quiet, never make a mess, never ask for

anything. We were expected to compliment her often and express much gratitude

for everything she did for us. We were not allowed to be ill, or if we really

were ill or injured, we were either ignored, screamed at for being stupid and

clumsy, or treated with great disdain and irritability for causing nada extra

work. We grew up walking on eggshells to keep from doing anything that would

upset her or make her angry at us.

Is it even possible to love or even like someone you're afraid of? Someone you

can never be your authentic, true self around?

I just don't know.

-Annie

>

> My answer is no too. although she had me convinced otherwise. it was always

> about her covertly.

>  

> Felicia Ward

> Remember that people often have different perceptions of the same reality. You

> can both be right, and no one has to be wrong, if each of you is willing to

let

> the other person have his or her perceptions and if both of you are willing to

> compromise. 

>

[Guest guest]

I only liked one thing about my mother. She had good taste in books.

>

>

> This is a question that came up in my session with T last night. (FYI, the

> whole session triggered me so badly, I called him early this morning and saw

> him again before any of his other clients today.)

>

> My answer was no. There is nothing about her that I like. I find all of her

> actions and reactions to be manipulative--there is always an ulterior

> motive, nothing is done just because she is a " good " person or because she

> cares about me or someone else. There is always something in it for her,

> either outright or underneath.

>

> I would really love some backup on this.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My nada has absolutely no identity. How can you like someone who has no identity

of their own? She can't even understand the music she listens to or the books

she reads because she has a distorted perception of reality.

No, there is nothing I like about her, and I don't feel like I should have to

try and find something to like about her. I don't WANT to like anything about

her.

>

> >

> >

> > This is a question that came up in my session with T last night. (FYI, the

> > whole session triggered me so badly, I called him early this morning and saw

> > him again before any of his other clients today.)

> >

> > My answer was no. There is nothing about her that I like. I find all of her

> > actions and reactions to be manipulative--there is always an ulterior

> > motive, nothing is done just because she is a " good " person or because she

> > cares about me or someone else. There is always something in it for her,

> > either outright or underneath.

> >

> > I would really love some backup on this.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is a great question, and I'm grateful for the chance to answer it. Yes,

there are lots of things I liked about my mother. That's why her ultimate

betrayal and rejection hurt so much.

I liked:

her homemade candy and baked goods.

Her air-dried laundry.

Her perfume and beautiful shoes. She also had great legs.

Her eyes the color of root beer popsicles.

She was very good with money, saving and paying bills on time.

That's about it. I'll refrain from the dislike list at this time.

AFB

[Guest guest]

My response is exactly what Alfdancer has said.

I don't know her. She has so many faces, so many loves turned to hate that I

have no idea who she is.

I cannot think of one single thing that I like/d about her.

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > This is a question that came up in my session with T last night. (FYI, the

> > > whole session triggered me so badly, I called him early this morning and

saw

> > > him again before any of his other clients today.)

> > >

> > > My answer was no. There is nothing about her that I like. I find all of

her

> > > actions and reactions to be manipulative--there is always an ulterior

> > > motive, nothing is done just because she is a " good " person or because she

> > > cares about me or someone else. There is always something in it for her,

> > > either outright or underneath.

> > >

> > > I would really love some backup on this.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Nothing nothing nothing to like about her. The sound of her voice is enough

to make me wretch and vomit.

BUTTTTT - there was something cool in her genetic material. Talent with

words, music, photography, art and languages. I do like having that.

And - as she told the neighbors, she was responsible for me having a

gigantic rack - but oh wait she must be blind cuz b cup aint no huge rack.

At least not around these parts.

>

>

> My response is exactly what Alfdancer has said.

>

> I don't know her. She has so many faces, so many loves turned to hate that

> I have no idea who she is.

>

> I cannot think of one single thing that I like/d about her.

>

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > This is a question that came up in my session with T last night.

> (FYI, the

> > > > whole session triggered me so badly, I called him early this morning

> and saw

> > > > him again before any of his other clients today.)

> > > >

> > > > My answer was no. There is nothing about her that I like. I find all

> of her

> > > > actions and reactions to be manipulative--there is always an ulterior

> > > > motive, nothing is done just because she is a " good " person or

> because she

> > > > cares about me or someone else. There is always something in it for

> her,

> > > > either outright or underneath.

> > > >

> > > > I would really love some backup on this.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I love her food (hence my last post yesterday).

She can be funny.

But other than that, she's just a rabbit who is in constant survival mode and

can think of nothing other than herself and what other people think of her.

>

> This is a question that came up in my session with T last night. (FYI, the

whole session triggered me so badly, I called him early this morning and saw him

again before any of his other clients today.)

>

> My answer was no. There is nothing about her that I like. I find all of her

actions and reactions to be manipulative--there is always an ulterior motive,

nothing is done just because she is a " good " person or because she cares about

me or someone else. There is always something in it for her, either outright or

underneath.

>

> I would really love some backup on this.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's interesting how many of our answers are what our mothers made or wore and

not parts of their personalities, you know?

It says a lot.

>

> This is a great question, and I'm grateful for the chance to answer it. Yes,

there are lots of things I liked about my mother. That's why her ultimate

betrayal and rejection hurt so much.

> I liked:

> her homemade candy and baked goods.

> Her air-dried laundry.

> Her perfume and beautiful shoes. She also had great legs.

> Her eyes the color of root beer popsicles.

> She was very good with money, saving and paying bills on time.

>

> That's about it. I'll refrain from the dislike list at this time.

> AFB

>

[Guest guest]

I've tried to like my nada, find some redeeming quality but I haven't found it

yet. As soon as I let my guard down, open myself up to her, she stomps on my

feelings. She hates her family (what's left of it) and has no friends. So she

doesn't have great social skills. I guess the only thing I can say that I

appreciate is that I've learned how NOT to act.

>

> This is a question that came up in my session with T last night. (FYI, the

whole session triggered me so badly, I called him early this morning and saw him

again before any of his other clients today.)

>

> My answer was no. There is nothing about her that I like. I find all of her

actions and reactions to be manipulative--there is always an ulterior motive,

nothing is done just because she is a " good " person or because she cares about

me or someone else. There is always something in it for her, either outright or

underneath.

>

> I would really love some backup on this.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

There was a pervasive extremely high expectation of perfection that neither I

nor Sister could ever meet. We were always inferior to her, never quite good

enough, always disappointing to her in some way or other. We weren't allowed to

be individuals or express feelings, thoughts or opinions that differed from

hers. We were never allowed to express anger in any way, even at things that

had nothing to do with nada! Negative emotions were interpreted as a criticism

of herself! (WTF?!) We had to be very quiet, never make a mess, never ask for

anything. We were expected to compliment her often and express much gratitude

for everything she did for us. We were not allowed to be ill, or if we really

were ill or injured, we were either ignored, screamed at for being stupid and

clumsy, or treated with great disdain and irritability for causing nada extra

work. We grew up walking on eggshells to keep from doing anything that would

upset her or make her angry at us.

>

> Is it even possible to love or even like someone you're afraid of? Someone you

can never be your authentic, true self around?

>

> I just don't know.

>

> -Annie

Dear Annie... the portion of your post I have included above describes my life

so truthfully that not a single word needs to be changed - it is 100% applicable

to me.

My mother is also quite high functioning and she did do some of the " good "

things that you mention - like making some nice clothes for me sometimes,

feeding me healthy foods/teaching me about healthy foods so I could cook/feed

myself (starting at around age 11) when she wasn't available to make any food,

etc. She is wise about her money and is a multimillionaire (literally), and I am

very happy about that and grateful to her for managing her finances so well

after my step-dad's death - not because I will ever see a dime of that money

(she has made it amply clear and even shown me her will, I will get nothing,

which is fine by me, honestly) but because at least I don't have to worry about

her being on the street and starving.

However, like you said, I don't know if it is possible to like someone with such

an abusive and abrasive personality. There is no peace with them, even the few

and fleeting happy times are lived under the dark clouds of BPD and can never be

enjoyed fully.

She is here at my house right now - a visit for which she invited herself,

claiming that it is for my " benefit " . (Back story: My husband moved to another

state for a job (we had no choice, he couldn't find work after we moved for me

to go to school) while the kids and I are making it through my second year of

medical school on our own. We were managing quite well - I am a fairly

efficient, hard-working, and organized person. I cook healthy food daily, we

make sure the kids get plenty of help with homework and attention both from me

and from my husband via Skype, our clothes are clean, our home environment is

very peaceful and full of unconditional love where everyone feels safe and

validated, and I even manage to bake a small batch of cookies for our twice a

week " dessert days " , and we have a cleaning lady who comes for 1-2 hours every

week to clean the floors and bathrooms. I have never complained to anyone about

things being tough, and I have never said I need any extra help. My mother was

absolutely hell-bent on trying to get me to " ask " her to come help me, I

refused, because a) her " help " has so many emotional and psychological strings

attached that I would rather beg on the street than ask her for anything, and

when you ask her for a little water to help grow a flower, she will make it into

a hurricane that destroys everything in its path. When she realized that she

wouldn't be able to manipulate me into asking her for help, she came at me

directly and asked me if I needed her " help " . I told her " NO " , emphatically and

repeatedly. And here she is anyway... (funny aside: a close friend of mine

suggested not picking her up from the airport! haha...))

Sorry about the long back story... I am so full of BPD-nada frustration right

now (ever since she got here 2 weeks ago), I have been meaning to write a big

post about my current situation, but every time I start I feel like I might

break down while writing it and I just can't afford to break down right now, my

dreams, my career and my family's future are on the line. The point is that even

when she is seemingly trying to " help " me, she brings so much toxic energy that

it takes twice as much effort to survive her than it would have taken to do

(myself) whatever task it is she is trying to do to help. This makes it very

hard (if not impossible) to appreciate her or her actions, even when she is

well-meaning.

-Arianna

[Guest guest]

Me too, alfdancer. I've tried, but letting my guard down opens me up to more

abuse. This is what I have concluded: My mom is a pro at intermittent

reinforcement. In behavioral terms, this is the most powerful form of

reinforcement. But, now that I've figured this out, I don't buy into it

anymore. That epiphany really helped me a lot.

Annie 2

> >

> > This is a question that came up in my session with T last night. (FYI, the

whole session triggered me so badly, I called him early this morning and saw him

again before any of his other clients today.)

> >

> > My answer was no. There is nothing about her that I like. I find all of her

actions and reactions to be manipulative--there is always an ulterior motive,

nothing is done just because she is a " good " person or because she cares about

me or someone else. There is always something in it for her, either outright or

underneath.

> >

> > I would really love some backup on this.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Eeeek Arianna! Two weeks in your home already, how are you standing it? Is

there any option for you to tell her to leave in the near future? My nada and

FOO is similar in that their " help " is never free and usually spiked with

various kinds of poison.

>

>

> Dear Annie... the portion of your post I have included above describes my life

so truthfully that not a single word needs to be changed - it is 100% applicable

to me.

>

> My mother is also quite high functioning and she did do some of the " good "

things that you mention - like making some nice clothes for me sometimes,

feeding me healthy foods/teaching me about healthy foods so I could cook/feed

myself (starting at around age 11) when she wasn't available to make any food,

etc. She is wise about her money and is a multimillionaire (literally), and I am

very happy about that and grateful to her for managing her finances so well

after my step-dad's death - not because I will ever see a dime of that money

(she has made it amply clear and even shown me her will, I will get nothing,

which is fine by me, honestly) but because at least I don't have to worry about

her being on the street and starving.

>

> However, like you said, I don't know if it is possible to like someone with

such an abusive and abrasive personality. There is no peace with them, even the

few and fleeting happy times are lived under the dark clouds of BPD and can

never be enjoyed fully.

>

> She is here at my house right now - a visit for which she invited herself,

claiming that it is for my " benefit " . (Back story: My husband moved to another

state for a job (we had no choice, he couldn't find work after we moved for me

to go to school) while the kids and I are making it through my second year of

medical school on our own. We were managing quite well - I am a fairly

efficient, hard-working, and organized person. I cook healthy food daily, we

make sure the kids get plenty of help with homework and attention both from me

and from my husband via Skype, our clothes are clean, our home environment is

very peaceful and full of unconditional love where everyone feels safe and

validated, and I even manage to bake a small batch of cookies for our twice a

week " dessert days " , and we have a cleaning lady who comes for 1-2 hours every

week to clean the floors and bathrooms. I have never complained to anyone about

things being tough, and I have never said I need any extra help. My mother was

absolutely hell-bent on trying to get me to " ask " her to come help me, I

refused, because a) her " help " has so many emotional and psychological strings

attached that I would rather beg on the street than ask her for anything, and

when you ask her for a little water to help grow a flower, she will make it into

a hurricane that destroys everything in its path. When she realized that she

wouldn't be able to manipulate me into asking her for help, she came at me

directly and asked me if I needed her " help " . I told her " NO " , emphatically and

repeatedly. And here she is anyway... (funny aside: a close friend of mine

suggested not picking her up from the airport! haha...))

>

> Sorry about the long back story... I am so full of BPD-nada frustration right

now (ever since she got here 2 weeks ago), I have been meaning to write a big

post about my current situation, but every time I start I feel like I might

break down while writing it and I just can't afford to break down right now, my

dreams, my career and my family's future are on the line. The point is that even

when she is seemingly trying to " help " me, she brings so much toxic energy that

it takes twice as much effort to survive her than it would have taken to do

(myself) whatever task it is she is trying to do to help. This makes it very

hard (if not impossible) to appreciate her or her actions, even when she is

well-meaning.

>

> -Arianna

>

[Guest guest]

Me too!! OMG, so on the money. Having a difference in opinion to my mother was

like betraying her. And heaven forbid I had a friend or boyfriend she didn't

like. Hell hath no fury like her. She broke up the friendship, my

relationships. My husband was the only man who ever stuck with me when it came

to my mother and he insisted we move 300 miles away (she threatened suicide for

about a month after I moved and then started drinking again and would call me

and pass out after her suicide threats and I'd have to call my sister or

grandmother to go make sure she was alive).

Being screamed at for bringing " viruses " home for her to catch - she was always

dying and sicker than anyone else. If I was sick, she'd leave my food or

medicine at the door so she didn't catch it.

The complimenting got so tiring too. I was never to be too loud, chew with my

mouth open, run in the house, have friends over...it was so tiresome trying to

be good.

Re: Is there anything I like about my mother?

There was a pervasive extremely high expectation of perfection that neither I

nor Sister could ever meet. We were always inferior to her, never quite good

enough, always disappointing to her in some way or other. We weren't allowed to

be individuals or express feelings, thoughts or opinions that differed from

hers. We were never allowed to express anger in any way, even at things that had

nothing to do with nada! Negative emotions were interpreted as a criticism of

herself! (WTF?!) We had to be very quiet, never make a mess, never ask for

anything. We were expected to compliment her often and express much gratitude

for everything she did for us. We were not allowed to be ill, or if we really

were ill or injured, we were either ignored, screamed at for being stupid and

clumsy, or treated with great disdain and irritability for causing nada extra

work. We grew up walking on eggshells to keep from doing anything that would

upset her or make her angry at us.

>

> Is it even possible to love or even like someone you're afraid of? Someone you

can never be your authentic, true self around?

>

> I just don't know.

>

> -Annie

Dear Annie... the portion of your post I have included above describes my life

so truthfully that not a single word needs to be changed - it is 100% applicable

to me.

My mother is also quite high functioning and she did do some of the " good "

things that you mention - like making some nice clothes for me sometimes,

feeding me healthy foods/teaching me about healthy foods so I could cook/feed

myself (starting at around age 11) when she wasn't available to make any food,

etc. She is wise about her money and is a multimillionaire (literally), and I am

very happy about that and grateful to her for managing her finances so well

after my step-dad's death - not because I will ever see a dime of that money

(she has made it amply clear and even shown me her will, I will get nothing,

which is fine by me, honestly) but because at least I don't have to worry about

her being on the street and starving.

However, like you said, I don't know if it is possible to like someone with such

an abusive and abrasive personality. There is no peace with them, even the few

and fleeting happy times are lived under the dark clouds of BPD and can never be

enjoyed fully.

She is here at my house right now - a visit for which she invited herself,

claiming that it is for my " benefit " . (Back story: My husband moved to another

state for a job (we had no choice, he couldn't find work after we moved for me

to go to school) while the kids and I are making it through my second year of

medical school on our own. We were managing quite well - I am a fairly

efficient, hard-working, and organized person. I cook healthy food daily, we

make sure the kids get plenty of help with homework and attention both from me

and from my husband via Skype, our clothes are clean, our home environment is

very peaceful and full of unconditional love where everyone feels safe and

validated, and I even manage to bake a small batch of cookies for our twice a

week " dessert days " , and we have a cleaning lady who comes for 1-2 hours every

week to clean the floors and bathrooms. I have never complained to anyone about

things being tough, and I have never said I need any extra help. My mother was

absolutely hell-bent on trying to get me to " ask " her to come help me, I

refused, because a) her " help " has so many emotional and psychological strings

attached that I would rather beg on the street than ask her for anything, and

when you ask her for a little water to help grow a flower, she will make it into

a hurricane that destroys everything in its path. When she realized that she

wouldn't be able to manipulate me into asking her for help, she came at me

directly and asked me if I needed her " help " . I told her " NO " , emphatically and

repeatedly. And here she is anyway... (funny aside: a close friend of mine

suggested not picking her up from the airport! haha...))

Sorry about the long back story... I am so full of BPD-nada frustration right

now (ever since she got here 2 weeks ago), I have been meaning to write a big

post about my current situation, but every time I start I feel like I might

break down while writing it and I just can't afford to break down right now, my

dreams, my career and my family's future are on the line. The point is that even

when she is seemingly trying to " help " me, she brings so much toxic energy that

it takes twice as much effort to survive her than it would have taken to do

(myself) whatever task it is she is trying to do to help. This makes it very

hard (if not impossible) to appreciate her or her actions, even when she is

well-meaning.

-Arianna

[Guest guest]

Interesting question. I find that there are qualities I appreciate about my

mom. They come across in the stories I share with my son, who at this rate, is

only going to know about his grandma from the stories I tell him. Some of

those qualities are her creativity, and her humanity. Her foibles. The things I

can chuckle at, I guess.

But there are many negative things that I choose not to focus on for the most

part, because I am happier not dwelling on them.

I don't think I have ever liked being hugged by her, and that makes me sad,

actually. I don't really like the sound of her voice, when she is not wanting to

be honest with herself or me. There are times when I do like her voice, but that

has become rarer since I stopped being willing to play any games for her

affection.

There are times I have appreciated her humor, and there are times I have seen

her take leaps of understanding and compassion, but because my nada can't

sustain those leaps, I find I don't have faith in her. Without faith in her,

there seems to be not much point in trying to have a relationship.

And without a relationship, I don't get to experience any appreciation of her

that is real, you know, in the present?

From time to time though, I do want to go back to being the I was a

year and a half ago, who was only to willing to be grateful .... for the things

about her that influenced my life and my choices for the good. One of you said

that their nada was an example of what not to be. And actually that is one heck

of a powerful force in our lives. We were each of us motivated to do things

differently BECAUSE we saw first hand what our nadas did was harmful.

May we all find peace in looking for the good in ourselves.

Best,

[Guest guest]

What would happen if you said something like, " Its been nice seeing you mom but

I need to get back to my regular routine now. I need my own space, you know?

Shall I arrange for a cab to take you to the airport on X date? "

Would it start WW III?

-Annie

> >

>

> >

> > Dear Annie... the portion of your post I have included above describes my

life so truthfully that not a single word needs to be changed - it is 100%

applicable to me.

> >

> > My mother is also quite high functioning and she did do some of the " good "

things that you mention - like making some nice clothes for me sometimes,

feeding me healthy foods/teaching me about healthy foods so I could cook/feed

myself (starting at around age 11) when she wasn't available to make any food,

etc. She is wise about her money and is a multimillionaire (literally), and I am

very happy about that and grateful to her for managing her finances so well

after my step-dad's death - not because I will ever see a dime of that money

(she has made it amply clear and even shown me her will, I will get nothing,

which is fine by me, honestly) but because at least I don't have to worry about

her being on the street and starving.

> >

> > However, like you said, I don't know if it is possible to like someone with

such an abusive and abrasive personality. There is no peace with them, even the

few and fleeting happy times are lived under the dark clouds of BPD and can

never be enjoyed fully.

> >

> > She is here at my house right now - a visit for which she invited herself,

claiming that it is for my " benefit " . (Back story: My husband moved to another

state for a job (we had no choice, he couldn't find work after we moved for me

to go to school) while the kids and I are making it through my second year of

medical school on our own. We were managing quite well - I am a fairly

efficient, hard-working, and organized person. I cook healthy food daily, we

make sure the kids get plenty of help with homework and attention both from me

and from my husband via Skype, our clothes are clean, our home environment is

very peaceful and full of unconditional love where everyone feels safe and

validated, and I even manage to bake a small batch of cookies for our twice a

week " dessert days " , and we have a cleaning lady who comes for 1-2 hours every

week to clean the floors and bathrooms. I have never complained to anyone about

things being tough, and I have never said I need any extra help. My mother was

absolutely hell-bent on trying to get me to " ask " her to come help me, I

refused, because a) her " help " has so many emotional and psychological strings

attached that I would rather beg on the street than ask her for anything, and

when you ask her for a little water to help grow a flower, she will make it into

a hurricane that destroys everything in its path. When she realized that she

wouldn't be able to manipulate me into asking her for help, she came at me

directly and asked me if I needed her " help " . I told her " NO " , emphatically and

repeatedly. And here she is anyway... (funny aside: a close friend of mine

suggested not picking her up from the airport! haha...))

> >

> > Sorry about the long back story... I am so full of BPD-nada frustration

right now (ever since she got here 2 weeks ago), I have been meaning to write a

big post about my current situation, but every time I start I feel like I might

break down while writing it and I just can't afford to break down right now, my

dreams, my career and my family's future are on the line. The point is that even

when she is seemingly trying to " help " me, she brings so much toxic energy that

it takes twice as much effort to survive her than it would have taken to do

(myself) whatever task it is she is trying to do to help. This makes it very

hard (if not impossible) to appreciate her or her actions, even when she is

well-meaning.

> >

> > -Arianna

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear and Annie,

Thanks for the thoughtful and kind words, they help more than I can describe.

I have been weighing the option of requesting that she leave since the day she

got here, but I know there will be an explosion. I don't know how bad it will be

and at this point I don't know what will be more detrimental to me - the massive

explosion or the steady-state tension that is running through me right now.

I have been kicking myself for allowing her to come, but the fact is, the only

way I could have stopped her is if I were completely NC with her - a step which

I have not been able to take (and I don't know if I will ever be able to take).

Being an only child only exacerbates the problem.

Just holding on for now...

Arianna

> > >

> >

> > >

> > > Dear Annie... the portion of your post I have included above describes my

life so truthfully that not a single word needs to be changed - it is 100%

applicable to me.

> > >

> > > My mother is also quite high functioning and she did do some of the " good "

things that you mention - like making some nice clothes for me sometimes,

feeding me healthy foods/teaching me about healthy foods so I could cook/feed

myself (starting at around age 11) when she wasn't available to make any food,

etc. She is wise about her money and is a multimillionaire (literally), and I am

very happy about that and grateful to her for managing her finances so well

after my step-dad's death - not because I will ever see a dime of that money

(she has made it amply clear and even shown me her will, I will get nothing,

which is fine by me, honestly) but because at least I don't have to worry about

her being on the street and starving.

> > >

> > > However, like you said, I don't know if it is possible to like someone

with such an abusive and abrasive personality. There is no peace with them, even

the few and fleeting happy times are lived under the dark clouds of BPD and can

never be enjoyed fully.

> > >

> > > She is here at my house right now - a visit for which she invited herself,

claiming that it is for my " benefit " . (Back story: My husband moved to another

state for a job (we had no choice, he couldn't find work after we moved for me

to go to school) while the kids and I are making it through my second year of

medical school on our own. We were managing quite well - I am a fairly

efficient, hard-working, and organized person. I cook healthy food daily, we

make sure the kids get plenty of help with homework and attention both from me

and from my husband via Skype, our clothes are clean, our home environment is

very peaceful and full of unconditional love where everyone feels safe and

validated, and I even manage to bake a small batch of cookies for our twice a

week " dessert days " , and we have a cleaning lady who comes for 1-2 hours every

week to clean the floors and bathrooms. I have never complained to anyone about

things being tough, and I have never said I need any extra help. My mother was

absolutely hell-bent on trying to get me to " ask " her to come help me, I

refused, because a) her " help " has so many emotional and psychological strings

attached that I would rather beg on the street than ask her for anything, and

when you ask her for a little water to help grow a flower, she will make it into

a hurricane that destroys everything in its path. When she realized that she

wouldn't be able to manipulate me into asking her for help, she came at me

directly and asked me if I needed her " help " . I told her " NO " , emphatically and

repeatedly. And here she is anyway... (funny aside: a close friend of mine

suggested not picking her up from the airport! haha...))

> > >

> > > Sorry about the long back story... I am so full of BPD-nada frustration

right now (ever since she got here 2 weeks ago), I have been meaning to write a

big post about my current situation, but every time I start I feel like I might

break down while writing it and I just can't afford to break down right now, my

dreams, my career and my family's future are on the line. The point is that even

when she is seemingly trying to " help " me, she brings so much toxic energy that

it takes twice as much effort to survive her than it would have taken to do

(myself) whatever task it is she is trying to do to help. This makes it very

hard (if not impossible) to appreciate her or her actions, even when she is

well-meaning.

> > >

> > > -Arianna

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You're not alone. The only thing I can say about my nada that I like is that

she is a hard worker. As someone else said in regards to other replies

here, I can't think of a darn thing about her personality that I like. It's

sad, isn't it? When I think of my nada, I think of an angry, bitter, mean

woman. Nothing about that to like.... except the hard working part. Too

bad when ever she worked her arse off she expected everyone else to right at

that moment as well.

But, I'm a hard worker too. And I don't expect everyone to drop everything

right at that minute to help. But I can respect that attribute in others.

Mia

[Guest guest]

Yes, we each have to find something that will work for us, and you as an

individual are the only one who can figure out what will work for you.

What would happen if you told your nada that your boss just informed you that

you are required to attend a business conference for two weeks, starting in

three days? (Maybe a friend could play the " role " of your boss for this scheme

and back you up.) Then you simply relocate yourself to a hotel near your office

for two weeks.

That way, even if your nada is still ensconced in your home when you return from

your " business trip " , at least you had a two-week break from her. But hopefully

she'd get bored and would decide that its time for her to go home.

Just another strategy to consider.

-Annie

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Annie... the portion of your post I have included above describes

my life so truthfully that not a single word needs to be changed - it is 100%

applicable to me.

> > > >

> > > > My mother is also quite high functioning and she did do some of the

" good " things that you mention - like making some nice clothes for me sometimes,

feeding me healthy foods/teaching me about healthy foods so I could cook/feed

myself (starting at around age 11) when she wasn't available to make any food,

etc. She is wise about her money and is a multimillionaire (literally), and I am

very happy about that and grateful to her for managing her finances so well

after my step-dad's death - not because I will ever see a dime of that money

(she has made it amply clear and even shown me her will, I will get nothing,

which is fine by me, honestly) but because at least I don't have to worry about

her being on the street and starving.

> > > >

> > > > However, like you said, I don't know if it is possible to like someone

with such an abusive and abrasive personality. There is no peace with them, even

the few and fleeting happy times are lived under the dark clouds of BPD and can

never be enjoyed fully.

> > > >

> > > > She is here at my house right now - a visit for which she invited

herself, claiming that it is for my " benefit " . (Back story: My husband moved to

another state for a job (we had no choice, he couldn't find work after we moved

for me to go to school) while the kids and I are making it through my second

year of medical school on our own. We were managing quite well - I am a fairly

efficient, hard-working, and organized person. I cook healthy food daily, we

make sure the kids get plenty of help with homework and attention both from me

and from my husband via Skype, our clothes are clean, our home environment is

very peaceful and full of unconditional love where everyone feels safe and

validated, and I even manage to bake a small batch of cookies for our twice a

week " dessert days " , and we have a cleaning lady who comes for 1-2 hours every

week to clean the floors and bathrooms. I have never complained to anyone about

things being tough, and I have never said I need any extra help. My mother was

absolutely hell-bent on trying to get me to " ask " her to come help me, I

refused, because a) her " help " has so many emotional and psychological strings

attached that I would rather beg on the street than ask her for anything, and

when you ask her for a little water to help grow a flower, she will make it into

a hurricane that destroys everything in its path. When she realized that she

wouldn't be able to manipulate me into asking her for help, she came at me

directly and asked me if I needed her " help " . I told her " NO " , emphatically and

repeatedly. And here she is anyway... (funny aside: a close friend of mine

suggested not picking her up from the airport! haha...))

> > > >

> > > > Sorry about the long back story... I am so full of BPD-nada frustration

right now (ever since she got here 2 weeks ago), I have been meaning to write a

big post about my current situation, but every time I start I feel like I might

break down while writing it and I just can't afford to break down right now, my

dreams, my career and my family's future are on the line. The point is that even

when she is seemingly trying to " help " me, she brings so much toxic energy that

it takes twice as much effort to survive her than it would have taken to do

(myself) whatever task it is she is trying to do to help. This makes it very

hard (if not impossible) to appreciate her or her actions, even when she is

well-meaning.

> > > >

> > > > -Arianna

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Mia,

Do we have the same nada?! Mine is exactly the same, bitter, mean, sad,unhappy,

but definitely a hard worker. In fact, that hard working part is the only thing

I learned from her, and unfortunately, it has turned into a bad thing for me.

You can't just be a hard worker for the sake of working hard. You have to take

pleasure in your work, and be proud of it. And not let others diminish it. I

could go on and on about how her " hard working " nature has affected me.

The other thing I wanted to add is that I did not learn anything from my nada.

She never taught me anything--anything specific or about life. You know how

people say: my mother always taught me... I have nothing to say after that

ellipses. Definitely with my dad, I can say he taught me a lot of things and

still does.

[Guest guest]

I thought of another strategy: Just start gradually doing things around your

home that your nada finds irritating. (Even if you find them irritating too;

this is a strategic tactic.)

If nada likes it quiet, start listening to music or talk radio all the time, and

crank it up loud. If nada likes the temperature to be on the cool side, set the

thermostat higher. If she likes things neat and clean, make a lot of mess. If

nada likes talking to you non-stop, just start talking over her and interrupting

her as though you don't hear her. If nada only likes certain foods, start

serving her exotic new foods. Tell nada your washer and drier have broken so

that she will have to wash stuff by hand. If nada is allergic to cats, then

your dear friend X has asked you a favor: " Say Hello to kitty, nada: he's

staying with us for a while. " If there is an air freshener she doesn't like,

that is now your favorite air freshener.

Spend as little time with nada as possible; you suddenly develop a busy social

life and/or work life that is taking up all your free time.

You've probably been going out of your way to make nada feel comfortable and

welcome, so, start doing the opposite.

Make nada long desperately to return to her own home where she can have things

her own way.

-Annie

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Annie... the portion of your post I have included above describes

my life so truthfully that not a single word needs to be changed - it is 100%

applicable to me.

> > > > >

> > > > > My mother is also quite high functioning and she did do some of the

" good " things that you mention - like making some nice clothes for me sometimes,

feeding me healthy foods/teaching me about healthy foods so I could cook/feed

myself (starting at around age 11) when she wasn't available to make any food,

etc. She is wise about her money and is a multimillionaire (literally), and I am

very happy about that and grateful to her for managing her finances so well

after my step-dad's death - not because I will ever see a dime of that money

(she has made it amply clear and even shown me her will, I will get nothing,

which is fine by me, honestly) but because at least I don't have to worry about

her being on the street and starving.

> > > > >

> > > > > However, like you said, I don't know if it is possible to like someone

with such an abusive and abrasive personality. There is no peace with them, even

the few and fleeting happy times are lived under the dark clouds of BPD and can

never be enjoyed fully.

> > > > >

> > > > > She is here at my house right now - a visit for which she invited

herself, claiming that it is for my " benefit " . (Back story: My husband moved to

another state for a job (we had no choice, he couldn't find work after we moved

for me to go to school) while the kids and I are making it through my second

year of medical school on our own. We were managing quite well - I am a fairly

efficient, hard-working, and organized person. I cook healthy food daily, we

make sure the kids get plenty of help with homework and attention both from me

and from my husband via Skype, our clothes are clean, our home environment is

very peaceful and full of unconditional love where everyone feels safe and

validated, and I even manage to bake a small batch of cookies for our twice a

week " dessert days " , and we have a cleaning lady who comes for 1-2 hours every

week to clean the floors and bathrooms. I have never complained to anyone about

things being tough, and I have never said I need any extra help. My mother was

absolutely hell-bent on trying to get me to " ask " her to come help me, I

refused, because a) her " help " has so many emotional and psychological strings

attached that I would rather beg on the street than ask her for anything, and

when you ask her for a little water to help grow a flower, she will make it into

a hurricane that destroys everything in its path. When she realized that she

wouldn't be able to manipulate me into asking her for help, she came at me

directly and asked me if I needed her " help " . I told her " NO " , emphatically and

repeatedly. And here she is anyway... (funny aside: a close friend of mine

suggested not picking her up from the airport! haha...))

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry about the long back story... I am so full of BPD-nada

frustration right now (ever since she got here 2 weeks ago), I have been meaning

to write a big post about my current situation, but every time I start I feel

like I might break down while writing it and I just can't afford to break down

right now, my dreams, my career and my family's future are on the line. The

point is that even when she is seemingly trying to " help " me, she brings so much

toxic energy that it takes twice as much effort to survive her than it would

have taken to do (myself) whatever task it is she is trying to do to help. This

makes it very hard (if not impossible) to appreciate her or her actions, even

when she is well-meaning.

> > > > >

> > > > > -Arianna

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Annie this is great!! dw

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sun, March 13, 2011 12:14:19 PM

Subject: Re: Is there anything I like about my mother?

 

I thought of another strategy: Just start gradually doing things around your

home that your nada finds irritating. (Even if you find them irritating too;

this is a strategic tactic.)

If nada likes it quiet, start listening to music or talk radio all the time, and

crank it up loud. If nada likes the temperature to be on the cool side, set the

thermostat higher. If she likes things neat and clean, make a lot of mess. If

nada likes talking to you non-stop, just start talking over her and interrupting

her as though you don't hear her. If nada only likes certain foods, start

serving her exotic new foods. Tell nada your washer and drier have broken so

that she will have to wash stuff by hand. If nada is allergic to cats, then your

dear friend X has asked you a favor: " Say Hello to kitty, nada: he's staying

with us for a while. " If there is an air freshener she doesn't like, that is now

your favorite air freshener.

Spend as little time with nada as possible; you suddenly develop a busy social

life and/or work life that is taking up all your free time.

You've probably been going out of your way to make nada feel comfortable and

welcome, so, start doing the opposite.

Make nada long desperately to return to her own home where she can have things

her own way.

-Annie

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Annie... the portion of your post I have included above describes

>my life so truthfully that not a single word needs to be changed - it is 100%

>applicable to me.

> > > > >

> > > > > My mother is also quite high functioning and she did do some of the

> " good " things that you mention - like making some nice clothes for me

sometimes,

>feeding me healthy foods/teaching me about healthy foods so I could cook/feed

>myself (starting at around age 11) when she wasn't available to make any food,

>etc. She is wise about her money and is a multimillionaire (literally), and I

am

>very happy about that and grateful to her for managing her finances so well

>after my step-dad's death - not because I will ever see a dime of that money

>(she has made it amply clear and even shown me her will, I will get nothing,

>which is fine by me, honestly) but because at least I don't have to worry about

>her being on the street and starving.

> > > > >

> > > > > However, like you said, I don't know if it is possible to like someone

>with such an abusive and abrasive personality. There is no peace with them,

even

>the few and fleeting happy times are lived under the dark clouds of BPD and can

>never be enjoyed fully.

>

> > > > >

> > > > > She is here at my house right now - a visit for which she invited

>herself, claiming that it is for my " benefit " . (Back story: My husband moved to

>another state for a job (we had no choice, he couldn't find work after we moved

>for me to go to school) while the kids and I are making it through my second

>year of medical school on our own. We were managing quite well - I am a fairly

>efficient, hard-working, and organized person. I cook healthy food daily, we

>make sure the kids get plenty of help with homework and attention both from me

>and from my husband via Skype, our clothes are clean, our home environment is

>very peaceful and full of unconditional love where everyone feels safe and

>validated, and I even manage to bake a small batch of cookies for our twice a

>week " dessert days " , and we have a cleaning lady who comes for 1-2 hours every

>week to clean the floors and bathrooms. I have never complained to anyone about

>things being tough, and I have never said I need any extra help. My mother was

>absolutely hell-bent on trying to get me to " ask " her to come help me, I

>refused, because a) her " help " has so many emotional and psychological strings

>attached that I would rather beg on the street than ask her for anything, and

>when you ask her for a little water to help grow a flower, she will make it

into

>a hurricane that destroys everything in its path. When she realized that she

>wouldn't be able to manipulate me into asking her for help, she came at me

>directly and asked me if I needed her " help " . I told her " NO " , emphatically and

>repeatedly. And here she is anyway... (funny aside: a close friend of mine

>suggested not picking her up from the airport! haha...))

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry about the long back story... I am so full of BPD-nada

frustration

>right now (ever since she got here 2 weeks ago), I have been meaning to write a

>big post about my current situation, but every time I start I feel like I might

>break down while writing it and I just can't afford to break down right now, my

>dreams, my career and my family's future are on the line. The point is that

even

>when she is seemingly trying to " help " me, she brings so much toxic energy that

>it takes twice as much effort to survive her than it would have taken to do

>(myself) whatever task it is she is trying to do to help. This makes it very

>hard (if not impossible) to appreciate her or her actions, even when she is

>well-meaning.

> > > > >

> > > > > -Arianna

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

, it's eerie how may of us have similar nadas. My nada did not take

pleasure in her work. She took pride in it, but I know she didn't like what

she did. She was a secretary. Oddly, when I wanted to go back to school I

had emailed her telling her what I was doing and she turned it into her &

how " Do you really think I like what I do? I can't go back to school " blah

blah blah.... I replied with, " Yes, you can go back to school if you hate

your job that much. "

I still have no idea what she wanted me to be when I grew up. She never

told me, would just poo-poo whatever ideas I had about careers. It was like

walking around in the dark, blind folded, and grasping at nearby objects...

" Maybe I'll be a <insert idea here> because I like <subject> " . Then I'd

grab, in the dark, at something sharp and cut my hand off (nada). Sorry,

weird metaphor.

I think I did learn things from nada, but largely indirectly. I did learn

to be a hard worker by seeing how hard she worked. Even when she hated her

job, she still did it. I'm the same way, but now I love what I'm doing.

Indirectly, I learned that it sucks to be hurt (physically, emotionally,

etc) and that I don't want to hurt anyone if I can help it; I learned that

words can hurt; And eventually I learned to listen to my gut when something

was " off " ... even though she tried reaaaaally hard to get me not to. It

took retraining, but It's getting easier.

*HUGS*

Mia