Guest guest Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Nada never came home today. She had a 104 fever; they say she has gangrene on her left foot and she is on extra heavy dosages of morphine and has been since last night. No one from there called me to tell me any of that until the social worker called me this morning to tell me all about it. She asked me if I wanted them to amputate and I said NO. One of my best friend's Sue called from work to see how nada was doing. She knows nada having met her only twice though and feels so sorry for her. She LIKES nada. That's fine and Sue has been beyond great to me through my struggles for three months with pulled muscles in both legs from my fall but she isn't great about my decision not to have nada's toes or foot or however high the gangrene goes amputated. Her doctor told me a long time ago when she first saw nada that nada would never make it through ANY surgery due to her very bad heart and high blood pressure as well as uncontrolled diabetes and this was before she deteriorated to the point she is now of course. I told the social worker no extraordinary measures. Nada also doesn't want them because she has a living will and just wants to die peacefully without intervention of any kind. I told the social worker this morning just to keep nada comfortable and that's it. Sue jumped all over me and said that I was 'getting my wish' and I 'wasn't thinking of my mother at all because if you were, you'd get that surgery.' Her doctor had called prior to that and said no way should I get the amputation because nada's heart would not survive that and she would die on the operating table anyway so why put her through that. I agree with her doctor. I spoke to the hospice nurse who is taking care of nada and she said they can't bring the 104 fever nada has down and she has been on a HEAVY dose of morphine for pain all day and sleeping it off. Yes she is out of it. Her doctor said she isn't God but she felt my nada wouldn't last another week. They are having nada examined by their 'wound doctor' and they will let me know tomorrow about nada. The only choices he has to make are whether to place her in the hospital or let her go home to pass. So I will know more tomorrow. My question is this how do I cope with a best friend who is so angry at me for not allowing the amputation to take place without alienating her? I feel like telling her again that her doctor advised me against amputation and I am going along with it. Nor does nada want extraordinary measures keeping her alive so basically it is out of the question. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 She has no right to tell you what to do with your mother's amputation. Stay strong. A good friend will stand by your decision, even if they disagree. > > > Nada never came home today. She had a 104 fever; they say she has gangrene > on her left foot and she is on extra heavy dosages of morphine and has been > since last night. No one from there called me to tell me any of that until > the social worker called me this morning to tell me all about it. She asked > me if I wanted them to amputate and I said NO. > > One of my best friend's Sue called from work to see how nada was doing. She > knows nada having met her only twice though and feels so sorry for her. She > LIKES nada. That's fine and Sue has been beyond great to me through my > struggles for three months with pulled muscles in both legs from my fall but > she isn't great about my decision not to have nada's toes or foot or however > high the gangrene goes amputated. Her doctor told me a long time ago when > she first saw nada that nada would never make it through ANY surgery due to > her very bad heart and high blood pressure as well as uncontrolled diabetes > and this was before she deteriorated to the point she is now of course. I > told the social worker no extraordinary measures. Nada also doesn't want > them because she has a living will and just wants to die peacefully without > intervention of any kind. I told the social worker this morning just to keep > nada comfortable and that's it. Sue jumped all over me and said that I was > 'getting my wish' and I 'wasn't thinking of my mother at all because if you > were, you'd get that surgery.' Her doctor had called prior to that and said > no way should I get the amputation because nada's heart would not survive > that and she would die on the operating table anyway so why put her through > that. I agree with her doctor. > > I spoke to the hospice nurse who is taking care of nada and she said they > can't bring the 104 fever nada has down and she has been on a HEAVY dose of > morphine for pain all day and sleeping it off. Yes she is out of it. > > Her doctor said she isn't God but she felt my nada wouldn't last another > week. > > They are having nada examined by their 'wound doctor' and they will let me > know tomorrow about nada. The only choices he has to make are whether to > place her in the hospital or let her go home to pass. So I will know more > tomorrow. > > My question is this how do I cope with a best friend who is so angry at me > for not allowing the amputation to take place without alienating her? I feel > like telling her again that her doctor advised me against amputation and I > am going along with it. Nor does nada want extraordinary measures keeping > her alive so basically it is out of the question. What do you think? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 If your friend is familiar with your nada's health conditions and knows that she has a living will and is still angry at your decision, I don't think there's much you can do about it other than find different friends and hope she calms down eventually. If she doesn't know, and you want to keep the friendship, maybe you need to have a talk with her where you explain what the doctor said and why he said it. People often get upset with others without understanding that the situation isn't what they're envisioning. Sometimes you can fix that by explaining what the situation really is. Sometimes you can't fix it because they're too caught up in believing their own version of things and don't want to hear the truth. Your friend could be feeling guilty about a decision she made some time in the past, or angry about a decision made by someone else in the past, and those feelings are getting tangled up in her feelings about the situation with your mother. Your decision sounds like the right one to me. What's the point of putting a dying women through surgery that she isn't likely to survive? It isn't like amputating her foot would fix her other medical problems and she could go on to live a long and healthy life afterward. At 05:44 PM 03/10/2011 Romantic Libra wrote: >Nada never came home today. She had a 104 fever; they say she >has gangrene on her left foot and she is on extra heavy dosages >of morphine and has been since last night. No one from there >called me to tell me any of that until the social worker called >me this morning to tell me all about it. She asked me if I >wanted them to amputate and I said NO. > >One of my best friend's Sue called from work to see how nada >was doing. She knows nada having met her only twice though and >feels so sorry for her. She LIKES nada. That's fine and Sue >has been beyond great to me through my struggles for three >months with pulled muscles in both legs from my fall but she >isn't great about my decision not to have nada's toes or foot >or however high the gangrene goes amputated. Her doctor told >me a long time ago when she first saw nada that nada would >never make it through ANY surgery due to her very bad heart >and high blood pressure as well as uncontrolled diabetes and >this was before she deteriorated to the point she is now of >course. I told the social worker no extraordinary >measures. Nada also doesn't want them because she has a living >will and just wants to die peacefully without intervention of >any kind. I told the social worker this morning just to keep >nada comfortable and that's it. Sue jumped all over me and >said that I was 'getting my wish' and I 'wasn't thinking of my >mother at all because if you were, you'd get that >surgery.' Her doctor had called prior to that and said no way >should I get the amputation because nada's heart would not >survive that and she would die on the operating table anyway so >why put her through that. I agree with her doctor. > >I spoke to the hospice nurse who is taking care of nada and she >said they can't bring the 104 fever nada has down and she has >been on a HEAVY dose of morphine for pain all day and sleeping >it off. Yes she is out of it. > >Her doctor said she isn't God but she felt my nada wouldn't >last another week. > >They are having nada examined by their 'wound doctor' and they >will let me know tomorrow about nada. The only choices he has >to make are whether to place her in the hospital or let her go >home to pass. So I will know more tomorrow. > >My question is this how do I cope with a best friend who is so >angry at me for not allowing the amputation to take place >without alienating her? I feel like telling her again that her >doctor advised me against amputation and I am going along with >it. Nor does nada want extraordinary measures keeping her >alive so basically it is out of the question. What do you >think? -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 She doesn't sound like she's being a very good friend. Even if your mother wasn't BPD, that's no way for a friend to speak to a friend whose mother is dying. I think I would tell her to either support your decision, since it's YOUR mother, or to stop asking. > > > > > > > Nada never came home today. She had a 104 fever; they say she has gangrene > > on her left foot and she is on extra heavy dosages of morphine and has been > > since last night. No one from there called me to tell me any of that until > > the social worker called me this morning to tell me all about it. She asked > > me if I wanted them to amputate and I said NO. > > > > One of my best friend's Sue called from work to see how nada was doing. She > > knows nada having met her only twice though and feels so sorry for her. She > > LIKES nada. That's fine and Sue has been beyond great to me through my > > struggles for three months with pulled muscles in both legs from my fall but > > she isn't great about my decision not to have nada's toes or foot or however > > high the gangrene goes amputated. Her doctor told me a long time ago when > > she first saw nada that nada would never make it through ANY surgery due to > > her very bad heart and high blood pressure as well as uncontrolled diabetes > > and this was before she deteriorated to the point she is now of course. I > > told the social worker no extraordinary measures. Nada also doesn't want > > them because she has a living will and just wants to die peacefully without > > intervention of any kind. I told the social worker this morning just to keep > > nada comfortable and that's it. Sue jumped all over me and said that I was > > 'getting my wish' and I 'wasn't thinking of my mother at all because if you > > were, you'd get that surgery.' Her doctor had called prior to that and said > > no way should I get the amputation because nada's heart would not survive > > that and she would die on the operating table anyway so why put her through > > that. I agree with her doctor. > > > > I spoke to the hospice nurse who is taking care of nada and she said they > > can't bring the 104 fever nada has down and she has been on a HEAVY dose of > > morphine for pain all day and sleeping it off. Yes she is out of it. > > > > Her doctor said she isn't God but she felt my nada wouldn't last another > > week. > > > > They are having nada examined by their 'wound doctor' and they will let me > > know tomorrow about nada. The only choices he has to make are whether to > > place her in the hospital or let her go home to pass. So I will know more > > tomorrow. > > > > My question is this how do I cope with a best friend who is so angry at me > > for not allowing the amputation to take place without alienating her? I feel > > like telling her again that her doctor advised me against amputation and I > > am going along with it. Nor does nada want extraordinary measures keeping > > her alive so basically it is out of the question. What do you think? > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 The first response that came to mind is to ask your friend where she went to medical school. It sounds like you are doing everything just the way you should. Maybe just limit the amount of time spent with this friend? > > Nada never came home today. She had a 104 fever; they say she has gangrene on her left foot and she is on extra heavy dosages of morphine and has been since last night. No one from there called me to tell me any of that until the social worker called me this morning to tell me all about it. She asked me if I wanted them to amputate and I said NO. > > One of my best friend's Sue called from work to see how nada was doing. She knows nada having met her only twice though and feels so sorry for her. She LIKES nada. That's fine and Sue has been beyond great to me through my struggles for three months with pulled muscles in both legs from my fall but she isn't great about my decision not to have nada's toes or foot or however high the gangrene goes amputated. Her doctor told me a long time ago when she first saw nada that nada would never make it through ANY surgery due to her very bad heart and high blood pressure as well as uncontrolled diabetes and this was before she deteriorated to the point she is now of course. I told the social worker no extraordinary measures. Nada also doesn't want them because she has a living will and just wants to die peacefully without intervention of any kind. I told the social worker this morning just to keep nada comfortable and that's it. Sue jumped all over me and said that I was 'getting my wish' and I 'wasn't thinking of my mother at all because if you were, you'd get that surgery.' Her doctor had called prior to that and said no way should I get the amputation because nada's heart would not survive that and she would die on the operating table anyway so why put her through that. I agree with her doctor. > > I spoke to the hospice nurse who is taking care of nada and she said they can't bring the 104 fever nada has down and she has been on a HEAVY dose of morphine for pain all day and sleeping it off. Yes she is out of it. > > Her doctor said she isn't God but she felt my nada wouldn't last another week. > > They are having nada examined by their 'wound doctor' and they will let me know tomorrow about nada. The only choices he has to make are whether to place her in the hospital or let her go home to pass. So I will know more tomorrow. > > My question is this how do I cope with a best friend who is so angry at me for not allowing the amputation to take place without alienating her? I feel like telling her again that her doctor advised me against amputation and I am going along with it. Nor does nada want extraordinary measures keeping her alive so basically it is out of the question. What do you think? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 This was exactly! what I thought when I read the post. People start to believe they are doctors when they have no idea the intricacies if the situation. I would make it clear to Sue that if you were to authorize the surgery you would be violating Nada's living will. Sent from my blueberry. > The first response that came to mind is to ask your friend where she went to medical school. It sounds like you are doing everything just the way you should. Maybe just limit the amount of time spent with this friend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 I agree. At this point, you are following both your nada's written wishes specified in her living will, AND her doctor's advice. There is nothing else you can do, really. I agree that your friend doesn't understand your nada's wishes regarding her terminal situation and your friend's opinion about what should be done is probably colored by her own experiences with a dying loved one. My dad had both liver failure (from decades of alcoholism) and lung cancer (from decades of smoking). He reached a point where he couldn't get enough oxygen and was rushed to the hospital, taken to the ICU, and after a few days in ICU he was stabilized but declared terminally ill. He was relocated to the hospital's " hospice " wing and kept on high levels of morphine to manage the extreme pain he was in. The high dosages of morphine that it takes to kill that level of pain can't be handled/processed by the body for very long. After only about 4 days in the hospice/terminal wing, he slipped into a coma and passed away about a day later. All I could think of while he was in the ICU and the hospice wing, was, " At least he's not in any pain any more, that is a blessing. " I think its very compassionate to simply eliminate the pain with morphine, instead of subjecting the terminally ill patient to life-prolonging operations or other procedures that only delay the inevitable. If your nada is pain-free and mostly asleep, then, that is the best she can hope for at this point. I'm so sorry you are having to go through this. Nothing about this is easy or simple or straightforward; its just another nada-based no-win situation. If your friend is unable to be understanding, compassionate, and supportive of your no-win position, then, I'm not sure I would want to spend much time with such a friend, myself. My thoughts are with you. -Annie > >Nada never came home today. She had a 104 fever; they say she > >has gangrene on her left foot and she is on extra heavy dosages > >of morphine and has been since last night. No one from there > >called me to tell me any of that until the social worker called > >me this morning to tell me all about it. She asked me if I > >wanted them to amputate and I said NO. > > > >One of my best friend's Sue called from work to see how nada > >was doing. She knows nada having met her only twice though and > >feels so sorry for her. She LIKES nada. That's fine and Sue > >has been beyond great to me through my struggles for three > >months with pulled muscles in both legs from my fall but she > >isn't great about my decision not to have nada's toes or foot > >or however high the gangrene goes amputated. Her doctor told > >me a long time ago when she first saw nada that nada would > >never make it through ANY surgery due to her very bad heart > >and high blood pressure as well as uncontrolled diabetes and > >this was before she deteriorated to the point she is now of > >course. I told the social worker no extraordinary > >measures. Nada also doesn't want them because she has a living > >will and just wants to die peacefully without intervention of > >any kind. I told the social worker this morning just to keep > >nada comfortable and that's it. Sue jumped all over me and > >said that I was 'getting my wish' and I 'wasn't thinking of my > >mother at all because if you were, you'd get that > >surgery.' Her doctor had called prior to that and said no way > >should I get the amputation because nada's heart would not > >survive that and she would die on the operating table anyway so > >why put her through that. I agree with her doctor. > > > >I spoke to the hospice nurse who is taking care of nada and she > >said they can't bring the 104 fever nada has down and she has > >been on a HEAVY dose of morphine for pain all day and sleeping > >it off. Yes she is out of it. > > > >Her doctor said she isn't God but she felt my nada wouldn't > >last another week. > > > >They are having nada examined by their 'wound doctor' and they > >will let me know tomorrow about nada. The only choices he has > >to make are whether to place her in the hospital or let her go > >home to pass. So I will know more tomorrow. > > > >My question is this how do I cope with a best friend who is so > >angry at me for not allowing the amputation to take place > >without alienating her? I feel like telling her again that her > >doctor advised me against amputation and I am going along with > >it. Nor does nada want extraordinary measures keeping her > >alive so basically it is out of the question. What do you > >think? > > -- > Katrina > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 i agree with you completely and with the dr.s advice.. the friend may mean well but doesn't know the facts of the case.. actually your nada will pass much more peacefully and mercifully without the surgery i believe, which as the dr. says would probably kill her, since she has so many other problems. i wouldn't worry too much about your friend. she just for her own reasons can't seem to face the facts of the situation.hang in there, it will be ok you will see.  i think you are thinking clearly and reasonably, not your friend.  she will calm down eventually i think.. and that will happen no matter what you might decide to say to her.peace, ann Subject: Nada now has Gangrene To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:44 PM  Nada never came home today. She had a 104 fever; they say she has gangrene on her left foot and she is on extra heavy dosages of morphine and has been since last night. No one from there called me to tell me any of that until the social worker called me this morning to tell me all about it. She asked me if I wanted them to amputate and I said NO. One of my best friend's Sue called from work to see how nada was doing. She knows nada having met her only twice though and feels so sorry for her. She LIKES nada. That's fine and Sue has been beyond great to me through my struggles for three months with pulled muscles in both legs from my fall but she isn't great about my decision not to have nada's toes or foot or however high the gangrene goes amputated. Her doctor told me a long time ago when she first saw nada that nada would never make it through ANY surgery due to her very bad heart and high blood pressure as well as uncontrolled diabetes and this was before she deteriorated to the point she is now of course. I told the social worker no extraordinary measures. Nada also doesn't want them because she has a living will and just wants to die peacefully without intervention of any kind. I told the social worker this morning just to keep nada comfortable and that's it. Sue jumped all over me and said that I was 'getting my wish' and I 'wasn't thinking of my mother at all because if you were, you'd get that surgery.' Her doctor had called prior to that and said no way should I get the amputation because nada's heart would not survive that and she would die on the operating table anyway so why put her through that. I agree with her doctor. I spoke to the hospice nurse who is taking care of nada and she said they can't bring the 104 fever nada has down and she has been on a HEAVY dose of morphine for pain all day and sleeping it off. Yes she is out of it. Her doctor said she isn't God but she felt my nada wouldn't last another week. They are having nada examined by their 'wound doctor' and they will let me know tomorrow about nada. The only choices he has to make are whether to place her in the hospital or let her go home to pass. So I will know more tomorrow. My question is this how do I cope with a best friend who is so angry at me for not allowing the amputation to take place without alienating her? I feel like telling her again that her doctor advised me against amputation and I am going along with it. Nor does nada want extraordinary measures keeping her alive so basically it is out of the question. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Agreeing totally. Some people believe that every single medical thing that can be done to extend life should be done - and if it's not it is some sort of travesty. That's probably where this friend stands. But in the face of long drawn out suffering and a slow death, that position becomes extreme and causes even more suffering. It is true that untreated gangrene is guaranteed to shortly produce sepsis and death. But even if you treated the gangrene with surgery, even if your nada survived that by some miracle, she'd still have all the other conditions which she was dying of already. You are just respecting her wishes and the doctor's recommendation. Not much else to do. Take care, > > > Subject: Nada now has Gangrene > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:44 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > Nada never came home today. She had a 104 fever; they say she has gangrene on her left foot and she is on extra heavy dosages of morphine and has been since last night. No one from there called me to tell me any of that until the social worker called me this morning to tell me all about it. She asked me if I wanted them to amputate and I said NO. > > > > One of my best friend's Sue called from work to see how nada was doing. She knows nada having met her only twice though and feels so sorry for her. She LIKES nada. That's fine and Sue has been beyond great to me through my struggles for three months with pulled muscles in both legs from my fall but she isn't great about my decision not to have nada's toes or foot or however high the gangrene goes amputated. Her doctor told me a long time ago when she first saw nada that nada would never make it through ANY surgery due to her very bad heart and high blood pressure as well as uncontrolled diabetes and this was before she deteriorated to the point she is now of course. I told the social worker no extraordinary measures. Nada also doesn't want them because she has a living will and just wants to die peacefully without intervention of any kind. I told the social worker this morning just to keep nada comfortable and that's it. Sue jumped all over me > and said that I was 'getting my wish' and I 'wasn't thinking of my mother at all because if you were, you'd get that surgery.' Her doctor had called prior to that and said no way should I get the amputation because nada's heart would not survive that and she would die on the operating table anyway so why put her through that. I agree with her doctor. > > > > I spoke to the hospice nurse who is taking care of nada and she said they can't bring the 104 fever nada has down and she has been on a HEAVY dose of morphine for pain all day and sleeping it off. Yes she is out of it. > > > > Her doctor said she isn't God but she felt my nada wouldn't last another week. > > > > They are having nada examined by their 'wound doctor' and they will let me know tomorrow about nada. The only choices he has to make are whether to place her in the hospital or let her go home to pass. So I will know more tomorrow. > > > > My question is this how do I cope with a best friend who is so angry at me for not allowing the amputation to take place without alienating her? I feel like telling her again that her doctor advised me against amputation and I am going along with it. Nor does nada want extraordinary measures keeping her alive so basically it is out of the question. What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 I agree with Girlscout. It's nice of your friend to be by your side, but she's not a professional and shouldn't guilt you about your decision. > > > > > > > Nada never came home today. She had a 104 fever; they say she has gangrene > > on her left foot and she is on extra heavy dosages of morphine and has been > > since last night. No one from there called me to tell me any of that until > > the social worker called me this morning to tell me all about it. She asked > > me if I wanted them to amputate and I said NO. > > > > One of my best friend's Sue called from work to see how nada was doing. She > > knows nada having met her only twice though and feels so sorry for her. She > > LIKES nada. That's fine and Sue has been beyond great to me through my > > struggles for three months with pulled muscles in both legs from my fall but > > she isn't great about my decision not to have nada's toes or foot or however > > high the gangrene goes amputated. Her doctor told me a long time ago when > > she first saw nada that nada would never make it through ANY surgery due to > > her very bad heart and high blood pressure as well as uncontrolled diabetes > > and this was before she deteriorated to the point she is now of course. I > > told the social worker no extraordinary measures. Nada also doesn't want > > them because she has a living will and just wants to die peacefully without > > intervention of any kind. I told the social worker this morning just to keep > > nada comfortable and that's it. Sue jumped all over me and said that I was > > 'getting my wish' and I 'wasn't thinking of my mother at all because if you > > were, you'd get that surgery.' Her doctor had called prior to that and said > > no way should I get the amputation because nada's heart would not survive > > that and she would die on the operating table anyway so why put her through > > that. I agree with her doctor. > > > > I spoke to the hospice nurse who is taking care of nada and she said they > > can't bring the 104 fever nada has down and she has been on a HEAVY dose of > > morphine for pain all day and sleeping it off. Yes she is out of it. > > > > Her doctor said she isn't God but she felt my nada wouldn't last another > > week. > > > > They are having nada examined by their 'wound doctor' and they will let me > > know tomorrow about nada. The only choices he has to make are whether to > > place her in the hospital or let her go home to pass. So I will know more > > tomorrow. > > > > My question is this how do I cope with a best friend who is so angry at me > > for not allowing the amputation to take place without alienating her? I feel > > like telling her again that her doctor advised me against amputation and I > > am going along with it. Nor does nada want extraordinary measures keeping > > her alive so basically it is out of the question. What do you think? > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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