Guest guest Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Fiona: ; ) I always say to my friends I need the cynic clinic bad ... after reading the posts on this topic, I am starting to feel a little better. I like it when people suggest reading material and since joining the list, I have read about five books (eggshells, toxic parents, borderline mother, gifted child, coping with difficult people) and now I feel like I have more superhero " tools " to counteract my bpd magnet ... dw ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 11:49:52 AM Subject: Re: Isolating  DW, Sigh, yes! You sure we weren't separated at birth?? Same here. I'm very critical and most of my pictures, from youngish on, I have this cynical, " yeah, right " face on....like my parents. I refuse to do it anymore. It's like I'm reinventing myself and trying to be more optimistic about others, and myself. > > > > > > Hi Amy: Can you help me understand how you see things. When you say > > >isolating, > > > > > > what activities do you mean? dw > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Amy <eireannachcailin1@> > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > > > Sent: Fri, March 11, 2011 9:57:33 AM > > > Subject: Isolating > > > > > > > > > I know I do this and am wondering - anyone else deal with this? How to you > > > counteract it? Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Annie - Tai Chi? I love to talk art and craft classes. I do it whenever I can. Just got back from yarn painting/dying. The teacher seems to be a safe person. her associate though - Very unsafe. I put on my big girl pants and told her exactly what I thought about that - ie I'd help you out anytime but your friend seems like the kind of person who takes the joy out of life. She agreed. I'm proud when I use my voice. My T says I have to. > > > Fiona: ; ) I always say to my friends I need the cynic clinic bad ... > after > reading the posts on this topic, I am starting to feel a little better. > I like > it when people suggest reading material and since joining the list, I have > read > about five books (eggshells, toxic parents, borderline mother, gifted > child, > coping with difficult people) and now I feel like I have more superhero > " tools " > to counteract my bpd magnet ... dw > ________________________________ > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 11:49:52 AM > > Subject: Re: Isolating > > > DW, > Sigh, yes! You sure we weren't separated at birth?? > Same here. I'm very critical and most of my pictures, from youngish on, I > have > this cynical, " yeah, right " face on....like my parents. > > I refuse to do it anymore. It's like I'm reinventing myself and trying to > be > more optimistic about others, and myself. > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amy: Can you help me understand how you see things. When you say > > > >isolating, > > > > > > > > what activities do you mean? dw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Amy <eireannachcailin1@> > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > > > > Sent: Fri, March 11, 2011 9:57:33 AM > > > > Subject: Isolating > > > > > > > > > > > > I know I do this and am wondering - anyone else deal with this? How > to you > > > > > counteract it? Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Oh sorry take not talk. My welsh terrier is laying on my keyboard making it hard to type. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Girlscout Cowboy < girlscout.cowboy@...> wrote: > Annie - Tai Chi? > > I love to talk art and craft classes. I do it whenever I can. Just got back > from yarn painting/dying. The teacher seems to be a safe person. her > associate though - Very unsafe. I put on my big girl pants and told her > exactly what I thought about that - ie I'd help you out anytime but your > friend seems like the kind of person who takes the joy out of life. She > agreed. > > I'm proud when I use my voice. My T says I have to. > > > > > >> >> >> Fiona: ; ) I always say to my friends I need the cynic clinic bad ... >> after >> reading the posts on this topic, I am starting to feel a little better. >> I like >> it when people suggest reading material and since joining the list, I have >> read >> about five books (eggshells, toxic parents, borderline mother, gifted >> child, >> coping with difficult people) and now I feel like I have more superhero >> " tools " >> to counteract my bpd magnet ... dw >> ________________________________ >> >> To: WTOAdultChildren1 >> Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 11:49:52 AM >> >> Subject: Re: Isolating >> >> >> DW, >> Sigh, yes! You sure we weren't separated at birth?? >> Same here. I'm very critical and most of my pictures, from youngish on, I >> have >> this cynical, " yeah, right " face on....like my parents. >> >> I refuse to do it anymore. It's like I'm reinventing myself and trying to >> be >> more optimistic about others, and myself. >> >> >> > > > >> > > > Hi Amy: Can you help me understand how you see things. When you say >> > > >isolating, >> > > > >> > > > what activities do you mean? dw >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > ________________________________ >> > > > From: Amy <eireannachcailin1@> >> > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 >> > > > Sent: Fri, March 11, 2011 9:57:33 AM >> > > > Subject: Isolating >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > I know I do this and am wondering - anyone else deal with this? How >> to you >> >> > > > counteract it? Thanks! >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 The author is Gavin de Becker. -Annie > > > > I know I do this and am wondering - anyone else deal with this? How to you counteract it? T > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 I hear ya, . I have the same problems. I'm 42. My mom did not like my friends and I don't think my friends liked her. I started working on my isolation issue recently and found that in growing up, my parents never taught me about boundaries. I have always put up walls and never liked dealing with people. I've been reading about boundaries and how they work. I actually find that I can now tolerate people. It no longer bugs me to be in a crowded store or to be in a group. Sue ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 10:20:49 AM Subject: Re: Isolating  After reading all of your posts, all I can say is, " Wow, I'm not the only one " ! I am NOT good in social situations and avoid them whenever possible. I just feel so uncomfortable around people, even if I know them, but especially if I don't know them. It takes me a very long time to open up to people and I have often been accused of being aloof or even stuck-up at times. Growing up, I was extremely shy and awkward, and that didn't make for an easy time making friends. I was ridculed and teased by the " in-crowd " girls and by middle school, my self-esteem was about zero. Whenever I did make a friend, my nada never approved of them. I first learned the hateful term, " white trash " , from my nada when she used it to describe my best friend in grade school. This was right before she forbid me to see her again. Of course, I cried my eyes out, because she was one of the only friends I had who really accepted me. Her mom was a single mom with two kids, but she was loving and kind and worked hard to give her family what they needed. They lived in the poor section of town, so to nada, I guess that qualified them as " white trash " . Nada wasn't even interested in getting to know them. She had already formed her opinion. I could go on and on with stories like that. My friends were never good enough. They were, " too trashy " , " too slutty " , " wrong religion " , or " not religious enough " , etc., etc. If she couldn't find enough wrong with them, she found something wrong with their family. To this day, I get knots in my stomach every time I have to go to a social gathering. I worry about it for weeks. Many times, I chicken out at the last minute and make up some excuse why I can't go because I just can't face it. Lately, I have really been working on just forcing myself to go, but it doesn't feel natural. I am so self-conscious and never know what to say. But I know that if I want friends, I have to put myself out there. The more I do it, the easier it will get (or so I hope it will). Once I get to know people, I'm usually ok around them and I do get comfortable. It's just the " getting to know " part that is so hard for me. God, I sound like such a NUT CASE! I'm 43 years old. Why is it still so HARD? > > > > Hi Amy: Can you help me understand how you see things. When you say >isolating, > > > what activities do you mean? dw > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Amy <eireannachcailin1@> > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > > Sent: Fri, March 11, 2011 9:57:33 AM > > Subject: Isolating > > > > > > I know I do this and am wondering - anyone else deal with this? How to you > > counteract it? Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 I'm reading " Where to Draw the Line-How To Set Healthy Boundaries Every Day " by Anne . ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Fri, March 11, 2011 7:07:58 PM Subject: Re: Re: Isolating Try the book Safe People, it helped me IMMENSLY On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 5:42 PM, anuria67854 wrote: > > > I used to be that way also. I think it came from hearing that constantly > from my nada. Nothing was ever just OK or good enough for her. I hated her > perfectionism, but, it was my " normal " . > > Perfectionism is NOT normal. Its horribly irritating to be around. So, I > compartmentalize my perfectionism. I am rather perfectionistic about my > work, but that's OK because I am self-employed. (I'm not inflicting my > perfectionism on co-workers or staff.) I let myself be kind of > perfectionistic about my kitchen and bathrooms. They are very clean. I can't > stand a dirty kitchen or bathroom. The rest of the house... (cough) is not > perfect. > Not by a long shot. > > But yes, I too dislike being around someone who is making a constant > running commentary about other people's flaws and imperfections. That's my > nada. I actively chose to not be that way around other people; around others > I am pretty mellow and easy-going and flexible. > If I'm feeling anxious and irritable for some reason, I remove myself from > the situation. I don't want to inflict myself on other people when I'm > feeling that way. Nada, on the other hand, seemed to feel that other people > exist in order to be targets for her use, something for her to dump her > irritability on. > > So, in some ways, nada is a good " negative " example. Whatever it is you > don't like about nada-think or nada-behaviors... do the opposite. > > -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amy: Can you help me understand how you see things. When you say > > > > > >isolating, > > > > > > > > > > what activities do you mean? dw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: Amy <eireannachcailin1@> > > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > > > > > Sent: Fri, March 11, 2011 9:57:33 AM > > > > > Subject: Isolating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know I do this and am wondering - anyone else deal with this? How > to you > > > > > counteract it? Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 , me too! I'm 43 and get the jitters something awful when I'm in a group of people. Esp when we visit my husband's family. It was so bad last year, I started crying before we left to go and I begged him to let me stay home. We only see them--thankfully--once or twice a year but I just feel such dread. (side note: I stayed home!) Yes, my mother would also say awful things about my friends. It didn't make me like my friends any less, but made me dislike her so much. And I thought she was weird for making comments about her own friends after talking on the phone with them all nice, nice. I also thought something was wrong with my mother because she would go to work/come home/work/home/do the laundry/work home/make dinner, etc. No friends, no social life, nothing. When I'd ask her about it, she would equate friendship with a luxury she couldn't afford. And I see myself doing the same thing now and struggling--but I refuse to give up no matter what--to have friendships and to BE A FRIEND. my mother never, ever, ever modeled that for me. How to be a GOOD friend. To me or to anyone else. You're not a nut case, . You're injured, and so am I. As Doug says, " may we all heal. " Hugs, Fiona > > After reading all of your posts, all I can say is, " Wow, I'm not the only one " ! I am NOT good in social situations and avoid them whenever possible. I just feel so uncomfortable around people, even if I know them, but especially if I don't know them. It takes me a very long time to open up to people and I have often been accused of being aloof or even stuck-up at times. Growing up, I was extremely shy and awkward, and that didn't make for an easy time making friends. I was ridculed and teased by the " in-crowd " girls and by middle school, my self-esteem was about zero. > > Whenever I did make a friend, my nada never approved of them. I first learned the hateful term, " white trash " , from my nada when she used it to describe my best friend in grade school. This was right before she forbid me to see her again. Of course, I cried my eyes out, because she was one of the only friends I had who really accepted me. Her mom was a single mom with two kids, but she was loving and kind and worked hard to give her family what they needed. They lived in the poor section of town, so to nada, I guess that qualified them as " white trash " . Nada wasn't even interested in getting to know them. She had already formed her opinion. > > I could go on and on with stories like that. My friends were never good enough. They were, " too trashy " , " too slutty " , " wrong religion " , or " not religious enough " , etc., etc. If she couldn't find enough wrong with them, she found something wrong with their family. > > To this day, I get knots in my stomach every time I have to go to a social gathering. I worry about it for weeks. Many times, I chicken out at the last minute and make up some excuse why I can't go because I just can't face it. Lately, I have really been working on just forcing myself to go, but it doesn't feel natural. I am so self-conscious and never know what to say. But I know that if I want friends, I have to put myself out there. The more I do it, the easier it will get (or so I hope it will). Once I get to know people, I'm usually ok around them and I do get comfortable. It's just the " getting to know " part that is so hard for me. > > God, I sound like such a NUT CASE! I'm 43 years old. Why is it still so HARD? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 that's such a good idea. I've often been drawn to kickboxing/karate. It just sounds like such a good way to feel more assertive, too. > > I would like to suggest something for those who feel awkward and insecure in social situations, is to find a beginners' class for adults revolving around something that interests you, and join that. You'll be in a class with other rank beginners and you'll all be adults. > > I suggest a martial arts class. There are lots of different kinds of martial arts, some like judo do not involve whacking boards with your hands, its about deflecting your opponent and using their weight and using leverage to get them to fall. Its very gentle ( " judo " means " gentle. " ) > > There is even a very gentle group exercise class that can be done by those who have physical disabilities or are out of shape/overweight. > I can't think of the name of this group exercise, but it is very slow and yet dance-like in the grace of the moves. > > And there is yoga, too. > > What classes like this do is that it puts you in a room with other people and gets you used to having other people near you. And it requires that you not talk at least some of the time, so you are not feeling pressure to make conversation constantly. You are there to listen and learn, not make conversation. After class and before class, the conversation will begin to flow more naturally as you discuss the exercises, which ones you enjoy or find easy, which ones you are having trouble with, etc. > > It allows you to feel awkward and unsure in public and to make mistakes in front of other people without dying of embarrassment, because a lot of your fellow class members will be feeling awkward and embarrassed and making mistakes, too. > > Getting good at something is an automatic confidence-booster. > > This would work with any activity you have an interest in, really. > > Take a class in learning to ride a horse, learning photography. Join a hiking group. Ever had a hankering to be a pastry chef? Take a class! > > I think engaging in activities that focus on learning something new (particularly learning a physical skill) takes the onus off of being in a social situation because the focus is not on socializing: the socializing is a side-benefit. > > Its something to think about, anyway. Life is too short and precious to go through it afraid of people and lonely, sez I. > > -Annie > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Fiona, your nada is a waif, right? Sounds like one from the friendship behaviors. My own queen/witch nada had a lot of friends who kind of sat at her feet and took orders - I think they mainly were friends with her because they felt their souls would benefit from convincing nada to be more involved in their church. In fact, I'm sure of it. Nada played it up for all it was worth, waving her religious doubt around like a flag so that they would come running. > > > that's such a good idea. I've often been drawn to kickboxing/karate. > It just sounds like such a good way to feel more assertive, too. > > > > > > > I would like to suggest something for those who feel awkward and insecure > in social situations, is to find a beginners' class for adults revolving > around something that interests you, and join that. You'll be in a class > with other rank beginners and you'll all be adults. > > > > I suggest a martial arts class. There are lots of different kinds of > martial arts, some like judo do not involve whacking boards with your hands, > its about deflecting your opponent and using their weight and using leverage > to get them to fall. Its very gentle ( " judo " means " gentle. " ) > > > > There is even a very gentle group exercise class that can be done by > those who have physical disabilities or are out of shape/overweight. > > I can't think of the name of this group exercise, but it is very slow and > yet dance-like in the grace of the moves. > > > > And there is yoga, too. > > > > What classes like this do is that it puts you in a room with other people > and gets you used to having other people near you. And it requires that you > not talk at least some of the time, so you are not feeling pressure to make > conversation constantly. You are there to listen and learn, not make > conversation. After class and before class, the conversation will begin to > flow more naturally as you discuss the exercises, which ones you enjoy or > find easy, which ones you are having trouble with, etc. > > > > It allows you to feel awkward and unsure in public and to make mistakes > in front of other people without dying of embarrassment, because a lot of > your fellow class members will be feeling awkward and embarrassed and making > mistakes, too. > > > > Getting good at something is an automatic confidence-booster. > > > > This would work with any activity you have an interest in, really. > > > > Take a class in learning to ride a horse, learning photography. Join a > hiking group. Ever had a hankering to be a pastry chef? Take a class! > > > > I think engaging in activities that focus on learning something new > (particularly learning a physical skill) takes the onus off of being in a > social situation because the focus is not on socializing: the socializing is > a side-benefit. > > > > Its something to think about, anyway. Life is too short and precious to > go through it afraid of people and lonely, sez I. > > > > -Annie > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 thanks for posting that title! dw ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 7:05:56 PM Subject: Re: Re: Isolating  I'm reading " Where to Draw the Line-How To Set Healthy Boundaries Every Day " by Anne . ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Fri, March 11, 2011 7:07:58 PM Subject: Re: Re: Isolating Try the book Safe People, it helped me IMMENSLY On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 5:42 PM, anuria67854 wrote: > > > I used to be that way also. I think it came from hearing that constantly > from my nada. Nothing was ever just OK or good enough for her. I hated her > perfectionism, but, it was my " normal " . > > Perfectionism is NOT normal. Its horribly irritating to be around. So, I > compartmentalize my perfectionism. I am rather perfectionistic about my > work, but that's OK because I am self-employed. (I'm not inflicting my > perfectionism on co-workers or staff.) I let myself be kind of > perfectionistic about my kitchen and bathrooms. They are very clean. I can't > stand a dirty kitchen or bathroom. The rest of the house... (cough) is not > perfect. > Not by a long shot. > > But yes, I too dislike being around someone who is making a constant > running commentary about other people's flaws and imperfections. That's my > nada. I actively chose to not be that way around other people; around others > I am pretty mellow and easy-going and flexible. > If I'm feeling anxious and irritable for some reason, I remove myself from > the situation. I don't want to inflict myself on other people when I'm > feeling that way. Nada, on the other hand, seemed to feel that other people > exist in order to be targets for her use, something for her to dump her > irritability on. > > So, in some ways, nada is a good " negative " example. Whatever it is you > don't like about nada-think or nada-behaviors... do the opposite. > > -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amy: Can you help me understand how you see things. When you say > > > > > >isolating, > > > > > > > > > > what activities do you mean? dw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: Amy <eireannachcailin1@> > > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > > > > > Sent: Fri, March 11, 2011 9:57:33 AM > > > > > Subject: Isolating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know I do this and am wondering - anyone else deal with this? How > to you > > > > > counteract it? Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Me too. I isolate myself. I live now, unlike at any other time in life, as if I were in prison. It's pathetic. I realize it has to change. T said I may be agoraphobic. It wouldn't be surprising either. Imagine that you are an innocent loving person, but you have an enemy out in the world...your bp parent. Whatever you achieve, whomever you love, whatever your endeavour, that person is out to destroy you and it. Now let's say that happened. That parent DID interfere, manipulate, or act in outright depravity. Your life has been squashed over and over. What would you do? Damned right...isolate. So while it makes perfect 'sense' for me to isolate, I have to move past this and recognize that the nada is no longer a possible threat....because she is stuck in the house and dying. Maybe God did me a favor. Maybe He finally took pity on me and sit her down. And shut her up. Maybe I can get in a little successful living before I get too old to enjoy it. Agoraphobia PTSD Depression, Fibromyalgia, etc.... and age....Despite it all.... babyfoggy > > > > Amy: Me too. My nada would censor my reading by going through all the books in > > my room and just take them away. My friends were never good enough for her. So > > it ended up just being about her needs; back rubs for her back pain, and > > preparing her heating pad, her special food, dust furniture, vacum, all the > > housework. Talking about it now, I felt like I was in a prison camp. So I hid > > in my room and started sneaking around (my brother was charged with spying on > > me) and finally ran away because I couldn't take it any more. I kind of became a > > loner and I think that trust issue has a lot to do with it. Haven't found a good > > therapist myself but it seems there are others on the list who have happy > > marriages and good therapists. I associate relationships with being invisible so > > I have a hard time with setting boundaries. I just think if I could figure that > > part out it would be easier. dw > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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