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Quick background (context for anyone not wanting to dig through): I am in my

mid-30s, mother of 2 kids, had an " aha " moment about my mother being mentally

ill (finally stopped thinking " oh she just has a rough personality " , and other

such excuses for her behavior) about 6 years ago, then it took me a few more

years to become convince that it's BPD (with some touches of NPD possibly). I

am currently a second year medical student, after having been derailed time and

time again for more than 13 years, I am beginning to believe that maybe, just

maybe, I will achieve my dream and fulfill my calling.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Last summer I told myself that I would start going LC with my mother because her

mood swings and verbal, emotional and psychological abuse are debilitating and

can throw me off my axis at this crucial time in my life. Needless to say,

things did not work out according to plan and she has managed to stay firmly

planted in my daily life. Since the beginning of my relationship with my (now)

husband 15 years ago, he has provided a sort of a buffer. My mother has refused

to come to my home (although this has done little to reduce the abuse) while he

is around. A few months ago my husband had to move to a different state for a

great job. Unfortunately, he was unable to find an appropriate job near my

medical school (after quitting his previous job at the end of the summer of

2009, and moving our family, so I could pursue my dream), and when this

opportunity came up we had no choice but to take it. It is a really great career

enhancer for him, it is in the state where we eventually want to settle, and we

are not totally broke any more (I am going to ignore my massive student debt for

now, otherwise I might start hyperventilating).

The problem is that as soon as he moved away, my mother saw her opening. She

insisted that she must come visit us during winter break. I agreed and thought

that a short visit would be ok, because a) I do love her (I know, it's crazy,

but I lost my father to suicide and she's my only living parent, she is an

intelligent and interesting person, if you don't bring the mental illness into

the equation, and in her own twisted reality she loves me in the only way she

knows how); B) it was easier than saying " no " and dealing with a crapstorm; c)

I was exhausted and not at my strongest.

She came for the visit, which was supposed to last about 3 weeks (over the

holidays), then after 2 days she found out that she had some business issues

back home, so she was having a very hard time deciding how to change her

itinerary/plans. As you know, BPDs do not like taking responsibility for

decisions, so she kept pushing me to tell her what to do – basically she was

going to fly back to her home state for 2-3 days, take care of business, then

fly back, and she wanted me to tell her which days to pick and how to pull this

off. I didn't really provide her any answers. Every time she pressed, I

maneuvered away.

Then she started devolving and escalating, until she had a meltdown about 8 days

into her visit. I did not give in and did not play the game (I wish I could say

that I was totally calm and unaffected, but I would be lying, as I was pretty

shaken up and she did manage to engage me a bit and rattle my cage, but still I

did not play the game). So, she got angry and huffy and changed her ticket,

leaving the day before Christmas (about 10 days into the visit). The kids and I

took her to the airport and were very nice to her. She kept giving us ultimatums

that unless we apologized to her and asked her to return she would " never come

visit again " . To be honest, none of us were even remotely considering

apologizing (for what?) or asking her to come back. The kids were so relieved

that she was leaving (on our way back from the airport, my older one said, " Mom,

even if you apologize to her and ask her to come back, I will do no such thing,

so please don't speak on my behalf! " ).

A few days later she started calling and asking if I needed her help. I

responded with an unequivocal " NO " . She kept pressing, over and over again,

saying " I will come help you if you need my help. " I kept telling her point

blank, " I don't need help, yours or anyone else's, I am managing just fine. "

Fast forward a bit more, after the New Year, and she told me that she had rented

out her current residence (she has almost 2 dozen properties, but she is never

happy in any of her homes) and she would have tenants moving in on February 1st.

I asked her if she was planning on returning to Europe, where she recently

bought a home (and where she spent the past fall). She kept telling me that she

was planning on coming to help me, if I " needed her help " . I told her I did not

need her help. We had this conversation several times every day for a few days,

with her calling and asking the same question and me giving the same answer.

Then it came down to the fact that she had nowhere to live (she is a wealthy

woman (not filthy rich, but comfortably wealthy), so this is a problem she could

have solved easily, and she absolutely did NOT need to rent out her residence).

Then she kept telling me how she will be going back to Europe, but her new home

needs total renovation (doesn't even have a functioning refrigerator or stove),

and she can't do the renovation until it got warmer. Here is where I made a

mistake. I told her, " I do NOT need your help. However, if you want to come stay

here until you are ready to return to Europe, you can. " STUPID, stupid, stupid,

STUPID! I knew it was NOT the right decision even as I was speaking, but I also

knew that even if I hadn't said those words she was going to come here anyway

(and I was right, because as soon as I finished my sentence, she told me she

already had a ticket reserved!). She arrived in the last week of January.

Wait… there's more… she also invited the daughter of her friends from Europe (a

girl with whom I used to be friends/friendly when she was 6 and I was 11, and

haven't seen or spoken with her for a quarter of a century) to my home. Why?

Because the girl (now woman) had been seriously ill and needed a change of

scenery and a warmer climate (I am living in a warm state), her parents were

planning on sending her to Australia for a long vacation, but my mother decided

to volunteer my home. In all fairness, she did ask me if it was OK (after she

had already mentioned the option to them, but before she committed to it), and I

(being me), said " yes " . I had 2 reasons for saying " yes " : 1) I have a strong

tendency to help people if and when I can (a person recovering from an illness

needing a place? my doors are open!), and 2) since my mother was already

dead-set on staying with me for an extended visit, having an extra person was an

attempt at creating a frame within which she would have to be on good behavior.

In retrospect I feel like such a schmuck... maybe her friends (the woman's

parents, with whom she has a mostly long-distance friendship) do not realize

just how much of a mental illness my mother has, maybe the woman herself didn't

consider the possibility that living with a practical stranger (aging stranger!)

could be a problem, but I, I KNEW of her illness, and I let this unsuspecting

person walk into this terrible trap. I was thoughtless and selfish.

The guest arrived in the first half of February. She is a nice enough person,

obviously with her own issues, but has not really been much of a burden to me at

all. At first things were fine, but then nada (yes, I now find myself thinking

this word more and more) started painting this girl rotten - she started finding

reasons to criticize her, tried to gossip with me about her, started picking on

her, etc. The poor woman has been reduced to tears several times since she's

been here. I feel like such a jerk every time - I could have said " no " , and even

if she and her parents thought of me as an inhospitable wench for the rest of my

life, it wouldn't have mattered because I would have protected her from this

stress (even if she never realized it).

.... To be continued (I am exhausted and I have to be in class tomorrow

morning)... sorry

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I can't possibly recount every crazy conversation and rant that has happened

over the past month and a half, so I am just going to vent about the most recent

one.

Yesterday, my mother roasted a chicken with some potatoes for dinner, in

addition to some veggie soup we had from earlier in the day. We had only 2

potatoes, which would definitely not be enough for the 5 people currently at my

house (mother, me, 2 kids, guest). My older son is not very fond of potatoes, so

he asked me if he could make some pasta in addition to the potatoes. I gave him

my permission and went to the kitchen (where my mom was), while I continued

studying. One minute later my mother marches into the office and starts ranting

about how my children have no regard or respect for her, and it is because they

see how I disrespect her and they are merely a reflection of my attitude towards

her.

" The children are making pasta in the kitchen while I have been slaving away

making a nice dinner for them. " Etc. etc.

I was bewildered, while she continued ranting. I tried to explain to her that it

was OK, there were not enough potatoes and this would work out well. She was too

busy being " hurt " and yelling at me.

" I have been stuck in your kitchen the whole time I have been here, unable to

leave, serving you like a slave, and you treat me like I am lower than a maid…. "

Etc. etc. etc… You get the picture.

So I lost my cool a little bit and told her, verbatim:

" Fine, do not go into the kitchen any more. "

She began a whole new game after that… the " hurt victim " melodrama, Act 1. Each

time she wanted to get a glass of water or something from the kitchen she

demonstratively asked me: " Will you allow me to go to the kitchen to get water? "

Etc.

Then she started escalating some more today. When I started writing this post

about 4 hours ago Act 2 hadn't happened yet, and now after Act 2, I am so

drained emotionally and physically that I can't even summon the energy to write

everything that happened and everything that I am feeling/thinking. Somewhere in

the middle of the escalation (beginning of Act 2), I got to a point where I just

couldn't take it any more. So I quietly and firmly asked her:

" Please leave. You should not stay here any longer. "

I think for the first time she realized that I meant it 100% and heard the

determination in my voice. So of course she quickly readjusted herself and

flatly told me, " No, I am not going to leave. You can call the police, you know

how to do that, if you really want me to leave. "

I did tell her she is mentally ill. She started giving me all kinds of

counter-arguments, which I really want to share here, but I am so spent,

drained, I can't even type coherently. I am going to have to give the details

tomorrow.

Arianna

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Arianne,

Call the police and have her removed! It sounds to me like she just threatened

you! She says she won't leave YOUR house unless you call the police to remove

her? Then call the police! The only reason it seem you are still putting up with

her is because you are not holding to your boundaries. If you ask her to leave,

and she refuses, and you do nothing, then she just continues to walk all over

you whenever she wants.

You have to set boundaries, and be prepared to follow through when she breaks

them.

And, I'm sorry you have to put up with this. You don't deserve it, and it's not

your fault.

Sorry for the exclamations, it was just bursting from me when I saw that she

said that.

Be strong!

>

> I can't possibly recount every crazy conversation and rant that has happened

over the past month and a half, so I am just going to vent about the most recent

one.

>

> Yesterday, my mother roasted a chicken with some potatoes for dinner, in

addition to some veggie soup we had from earlier in the day. We had only 2

potatoes, which would definitely not be enough for the 5 people currently at my

house (mother, me, 2 kids, guest). My older son is not very fond of potatoes, so

he asked me if he could make some pasta in addition to the potatoes. I gave him

my permission and went to the kitchen (where my mom was), while I continued

studying. One minute later my mother marches into the office and starts ranting

about how my children have no regard or respect for her, and it is because they

see how I disrespect her and they are merely a reflection of my attitude towards

her.

>

> " The children are making pasta in the kitchen while I have been slaving away

making a nice dinner for them. " Etc. etc.

>

> I was bewildered, while she continued ranting. I tried to explain to her that

it was OK, there were not enough potatoes and this would work out well. She was

too busy being " hurt " and yelling at me.

>

> " I have been stuck in your kitchen the whole time I have been here, unable to

leave, serving you like a slave, and you treat me like I am lower than a maid…. "

Etc. etc. etc… You get the picture.

>

> So I lost my cool a little bit and told her, verbatim:

> " Fine, do not go into the kitchen any more. "

>

> She began a whole new game after that… the " hurt victim " melodrama, Act 1.

Each time she wanted to get a glass of water or something from the kitchen she

demonstratively asked me: " Will you allow me to go to the kitchen to get water? "

Etc.

>

> Then she started escalating some more today. When I started writing this post

about 4 hours ago Act 2 hadn't happened yet, and now after Act 2, I am so

drained emotionally and physically that I can't even summon the energy to write

everything that happened and everything that I am feeling/thinking. Somewhere in

the middle of the escalation (beginning of Act 2), I got to a point where I just

couldn't take it any more. So I quietly and firmly asked her:

> " Please leave. You should not stay here any longer. "

>

> I think for the first time she realized that I meant it 100% and heard the

determination in my voice. So of course she quickly readjusted herself and

flatly told me, " No, I am not going to leave. You can call the police, you know

how to do that, if you really want me to leave. "

>

> I did tell her she is mentally ill. She started giving me all kinds of

counter-arguments, which I really want to share here, but I am so spent,

drained, I can't even type coherently. I am going to have to give the details

tomorrow.

>

> Arianna

>

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Good for you for telling her to leave. Stick by your request and don't back

down.

> I can't possibly recount every crazy conversation and rant that has happened

over the past month and a half, so I am just going to vent about the most recent

one.

>

> Yesterday, my mother roasted a chicken with some potatoes for dinner, in

addition to some veggie soup we had from earlier in the day. We had only 2

potatoes, which would definitely not be enough for the 5 people currently at my

house (mother, me, 2 kids, guest). My older son is not very fond of potatoes, so

he asked me if he could make some pasta in addition to the potatoes. I gave him

my permission and went to the kitchen (where my mom was), while I continued

studying. One minute later my mother marches into the office and starts ranting

about how my children have no regard or respect for her, and it is because they

see how I disrespect her and they are merely a reflection of my attitude towards

her.

>

> " The children are making pasta in the kitchen while I have been slaving away

making a nice dinner for them. " Etc. etc.

>

> I was bewildered, while she continued ranting. I tried to explain to her that

it was OK, there were not enough potatoes and this would work out well. She was

too busy being " hurt " and yelling at me.

>

> " I have been stuck in your kitchen the whole time I have been here, unable to

leave, serving you like a slave, and you treat me like I am lower than a maid…. "

Etc. etc. etc… You get the picture.

>

> So I lost my cool a little bit and told her, verbatim:

> " Fine, do not go into the kitchen any more. "

>

> She began a whole new game after that… the " hurt victim " melodrama, Act 1.

Each time she wanted to get a glass of water or something from the kitchen she

demonstratively asked me: " Will you allow me to go to the kitchen to get water? "

Etc.

>

> Then she started escalating some more today. When I started writing this post

about 4 hours ago Act 2 hadn't happened yet, and now after Act 2, I am so

drained emotionally and physically that I can't even summon the energy to write

everything that happened and everything that I am feeling/thinking. Somewhere in

the middle of the escalation (beginning of Act 2), I got to a point where I just

couldn't take it any more. So I quietly and firmly asked her:

> " Please leave. You should not stay here any longer. "

>

> I think for the first time she realized that I meant it 100% and heard the

determination in my voice. So of course she quickly readjusted herself and

flatly told me, " No, I am not going to leave. You can call the police, you know

how to do that, if you really want me to leave. "

>

> I did tell her she is mentally ill. She started giving me all kinds of

counter-arguments, which I really want to share here, but I am so spent,

drained, I can't even type coherently. I am going to have to give the details

tomorrow.

>

> Arianna

>

>

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One thousand hugs. Yes call the police.

> Good for you for telling her to leave.  Stick by your request and don't back

down.

>

>

>> I can't possibly recount every crazy conversation and rant that has happened

over the past month and a half, so I am just going to vent about the most recent

one.

>>

>> Yesterday, my mother roasted a chicken with some potatoes for dinner, in

addition to some veggie soup we had from earlier in the day. We had only 2

potatoes, which would definitely not be enough for the 5 people currently at my

house (mother, me, 2 kids, guest). My older son is not very fond of potatoes, so

he asked me if he could make some pasta in addition to the potatoes. I gave him

my permission and went to the kitchen (where my mom was), while I continued

studying. One minute later my mother marches into the office and starts ranting

about how my children have no regard or respect for her, and it is because they

see how I disrespect her and they are merely a reflection of my attitude towards

her.

>>

>> " The children are making pasta in the kitchen while I have been slaving away

making a nice dinner for them. " Etc. etc.

>>

>> I was bewildered, while she continued ranting. I tried to explain to her that

it was OK, there were not enough potatoes and this would work out well. She was

too busy being " hurt " and yelling at me.

>>

>> " I have been stuck in your kitchen the whole time I have been here, unable to

leave, serving you like a slave, and you treat me like I am lower than a maid…. "

Etc. etc. etc… You get the picture.

>>

>> So I lost my cool a little bit and told her, verbatim:

>> " Fine, do not go into the kitchen any more. "

>>

>> She began a whole new game after that… the " hurt victim " melodrama, Act 1.

Each time she wanted to get a glass of water or something from the kitchen she

demonstratively asked me: " Will you allow me to go to the kitchen to get water? "

Etc.

>>

>> Then she started escalating some more today. When I started writing this post

about 4 hours ago Act 2 hadn't happened yet, and now after Act 2, I am so

drained emotionally and physically that I can't even summon the energy to write

everything that happened and everything that I am feeling/thinking. Somewhere in

the middle of the escalation (beginning of Act 2), I got to a point where I just

couldn't take it any more. So I quietly and firmly asked her:

>> " Please leave. You should not stay here any longer. "

>>

>> I think for the first time she realized that I meant it 100% and heard the

determination in my voice. So of course she quickly readjusted herself and

flatly told me, " No, I am not going to leave. You can call the police, you know

how to do that, if you really want me to leave. "

>>

>> I did tell her she is mentally ill. She started giving me all kinds of

counter-arguments, which I really want to share here, but I am so spent,

drained, I can't even type coherently. I am going to have to give the details

tomorrow.

>>

>> Arianna

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

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Am reading Toxic Parents and here is what the author suggests: managing the

interaction in writing or person

1) This is what you did to me (disrupted my home)

2) This is how I felt about it at the time (angry and upset)

3) This is how it affected my life (I can't study, care for my children, manage

my household)

4) This is what I want from you now (time for you to go now so that we can

resume our life)

I say you're right on track!!! dw

________________________________

To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " <WTOAdultChildren1 >

Sent: Tue, March 15, 2011 6:42:05 AM

Subject: Re: Long Vent... Stupid Situation

One thousand hugs. Yes call the police.

> Good for you for telling her to leave. Stick by your request and don't back

>down.

>

>

>> I can't possibly recount every crazy conversation and rant that has happened

>>over the past month and a half, so I am just going to vent about the most

recent

>>one.

>>

>> Yesterday, my mother roasted a chicken with some potatoes for dinner, in

>>addition to some veggie soup we had from earlier in the day. We had only 2

>>potatoes, which would definitely not be enough for the 5 people currently at

my

>>house (mother, me, 2 kids, guest). My older son is not very fond of potatoes,

so

>>he asked me if he could make some pasta in addition to the potatoes. I gave

him

>>my permission and went to the kitchen (where my mom was), while I continued

>>studying. One minute later my mother marches into the office and starts

ranting

>>about how my children have no regard or respect for her, and it is because

they

>>see how I disrespect her and they are merely a reflection of my attitude

towards

>>her.

>>

>> " The children are making pasta in the kitchen while I have been slaving away

>>making a nice dinner for them. " Etc. etc.

>>

>> I was bewildered, while she continued ranting. I tried to explain to her that

>>it was OK, there were not enough potatoes and this would work out well. She

was

>>too busy being " hurt " and yelling at me.

>>

>> " I have been stuck in your kitchen the whole time I have been here, unable to

>>leave, serving you like a slave, and you treat me like I am lower than a

maid…. "

>>Etc. etc. etc… You get the picture.

>>

>> So I lost my cool a little bit and told her, verbatim:

>> " Fine, do not go into the kitchen any more. "

>>

>> She began a whole new game after that… the " hurt victim " melodrama, Act 1.

Each

>>time she wanted to get a glass of water or something from the kitchen she

>>demonstratively asked me: " Will you allow me to go to the kitchen to get

water? "

>>Etc.

>>

>> Then she started escalating some more today. When I started writing this post

>>about 4 hours ago Act 2 hadn't happened yet, and now after Act 2, I am so

>>drained emotionally and physically that I can't even summon the energy to

write

>>everything that happened and everything that I am feeling/thinking. Somewhere

in

>>the middle of the escalation (beginning of Act 2), I got to a point where I

just

>>couldn't take it any more. So I quietly and firmly asked her:

>> " Please leave. You should not stay here any longer. "

>>

>> I think for the first time she realized that I meant it 100% and heard the

>>determination in my voice. So of course she quickly readjusted herself and

>>flatly told me, " No, I am not going to leave. You can call the police, you

know

>>how to do that, if you really want me to leave. "

>>

>> I did tell her she is mentally ill. She started giving me all kinds of

>>counter-arguments, which I really want to share here, but I am so spent,

>>drained, I can't even type coherently. I am going to have to give the details

>>tomorrow.

>>

>> Arianna

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

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I have tried this kind of thing, but it is just so hard to reason with a BP.

They don't get it. If trying to do it face to face, they don't give you the

change to say all that. And if doing it in writing, they don't hear what you

are saying. I have finally decided that I just shouldn't try to reason with

someone who is unreasonable. What do others think?

> Am reading Toxic Parents and here is what the author suggests: managing the

> interaction in writing or person

> 1) This is what you did to me (disrupted my home)

> 2) This is how I felt about it at the time (angry and upset)

> 3) This is how it affected my life (I can't study, care for my children,

manage

> my household)

> 4) This is what I want from you now (time for you to go now so that we can

> resume our life)

> I say you're right on track!!! dw

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " <WTOAdultChildren1 >

> Sent: Tue, March 15, 2011 6:42:05 AM

> Subject: Re: Long Vent... Stupid Situation

>

> One thousand hugs. Yes call the police.

>

>

> > Good for you for telling her to leave. Stick by your request and don't back

> >down.

> >

> >

> >> I can't possibly recount every crazy conversation and rant that has

happened

> >>over the past month and a half, so I am just going to vent about the most

recent

> >>one.

> >>

> >> Yesterday, my mother roasted a chicken with some potatoes for dinner, in

> >>addition to some veggie soup we had from earlier in the day. We had only 2

> >>potatoes, which would definitely not be enough for the 5 people currently at

my

> >>house (mother, me, 2 kids, guest). My older son is not very fond of

potatoes, so

> >>he asked me if he could make some pasta in addition to the potatoes. I gave

him

> >>my permission and went to the kitchen (where my mom was), while I continued

> >>studying. One minute later my mother marches into the office and starts

ranting

> >>about how my children have no regard or respect for her, and it is because

they

> >>see how I disrespect her and they are merely a reflection of my attitude

towards

> >>her.

> >>

> >> " The children are making pasta in the kitchen while I have been slaving

away

> >>making a nice dinner for them. " Etc. etc.

> >>

> >> I was bewildered, while she continued ranting. I tried to explain to her

that

> >>it was OK, there were not enough potatoes and this would work out well. She

was

> >>too busy being " hurt " and yelling at me.

> >>

> >> " I have been stuck in your kitchen the whole time I have been here, unable

to

> >>leave, serving you like a slave, and you treat me like I am lower than a

maid…. "

> >>Etc. etc. etc… You get the picture.

> >>

> >> So I lost my cool a little bit and told her, verbatim:

> >> " Fine, do not go into the kitchen any more. "

> >>

> >> She began a whole new game after that… the " hurt victim " melodrama, Act 1.

Each

> >>time she wanted to get a glass of water or something from the kitchen she

> >>demonstratively asked me: " Will you allow me to go to the kitchen to get

water? "

> >>Etc.

> >>

> >> Then she started escalating some more today. When I started writing this

post

> >>about 4 hours ago Act 2 hadn't happened yet, and now after Act 2, I am so

> >>drained emotionally and physically that I can't even summon the energy to

write

> >>everything that happened and everything that I am feeling/thinking.

Somewhere in

> >>the middle of the escalation (beginning of Act 2), I got to a point where I

just

> >>couldn't take it any more. So I quietly and firmly asked her:

> >> " Please leave. You should not stay here any longer. "

> >>

> >> I think for the first time she realized that I meant it 100% and heard the

> >>determination in my voice. So of course she quickly readjusted herself and

> >>flatly told me, " No, I am not going to leave. You can call the police, you

know

> >>how to do that, if you really want me to leave. "

> >>

> >> I did tell her she is mentally ill. She started giving me all kinds of

> >>counter-arguments, which I really want to share here, but I am so spent,

> >>drained, I can't even type coherently. I am going to have to give the

details

> >>tomorrow.

> >>

> >> Arianna

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

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I agree, reasoning with BPs is impossible. At least this framework for

managing interactions gives yourself a logical outline for your

boundary-making, for people who are still communicating or are LC with their

nadas and fadas. When nadas and fadas don't pay attention to the logic or

try to twist it around, this framework gives you something to refer to, to

keep your boundaries firm. It's all about keeping boundaries, so their

crazy-making can't infringe on you!

I've heard it mentioned somewhere on here before that our nadas and fadas

are emotionally like toddlers. You have to outline the rules and

consequences (if they'll let you.) Basically, tell them to play fair or you

won't play at all. And when they don't play fair, you really do disengage

and don't play at all. They'll pitch a fit, but you have to stand firm.

Sadly, I don't have specific advice on what to say if they won't let you

finish speaking, when you're in person. But I can imagine myself, when my

fada starts ranting and raving, telling him " Dad, stop. If you're going to

be like this, I'm going to leave. " And then leave. Hopefully others can give

more specific advice :)

Fuck. Now I've got my fada's memory in my head again. Time to go wash my

brain out with some LOLcats or something.

Holly

> I have tried this kind of thing, but it is just so hard to reason with a

> BP. They don't get it. If trying to do it face to face, they don't give

> you the change to say all that. And if doing it in writing, they don't hear

> what you are saying. I have finally decided that I just shouldn't try to

> reason with someone who is unreasonable. What do others think?

>

>

> > Am reading Toxic Parents and here is what the author suggests: managing

> the

> > interaction in writing or person

> > 1) This is what you did to me (disrupted my home)

> > 2) This is how I felt about it at the time (angry and upset)

> > 3) This is how it affected my life (I can't study, care for my children,

> manage

> > my household)

> > 4) This is what I want from you now (time for you to go now so that we

> can

> > resume our life)

> > I say you're right on track!!! dw

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " <

> WTOAdultChildren1 >

> > Sent: Tue, March 15, 2011 6:42:05 AM

> > Subject: Re: Long Vent... Stupid Situation

> >

> > One thousand hugs. Yes call the police.

> >

> >

> > > Good for you for telling her to leave. Stick by your request and don't

> back

> > >down.

> > >

> > >

> > >> I can't possibly recount every crazy conversation and rant that has

> happened

> > >>over the past month and a half, so I am just going to vent about the

> most recent

> > >>one.

> > >>

> > >> Yesterday, my mother roasted a chicken with some potatoes for dinner,

> in

> > >>addition to some veggie soup we had from earlier in the day. We had

> only 2

> > >>potatoes, which would definitely not be enough for the 5 people

> currently at my

> > >>house (mother, me, 2 kids, guest). My older son is not very fond of

> potatoes, so

> > >>he asked me if he could make some pasta in addition to the potatoes. I

> gave him

> > >>my permission and went to the kitchen (where my mom was), while I

> continued

> > >>studying. One minute later my mother marches into the office and starts

> ranting

> > >>about how my children have no regard or respect for her, and it is

> because they

> > >>see how I disrespect her and they are merely a reflection of my

> attitude towards

> > >>her.

> > >>

> > >> " The children are making pasta in the kitchen while I have been

> slaving away

> > >>making a nice dinner for them. " Etc. etc.

> > >>

> > >> I was bewildered, while she continued ranting. I tried to explain to

> her that

> > >>it was OK, there were not enough potatoes and this would work out well.

> She was

> > >>too busy being " hurt " and yelling at me.

> > >>

> > >> " I have been stuck in your kitchen the whole time I have been here,

> unable to

> > >>leave, serving you like a slave, and you treat me like I am lower than

> a maid…. "

> > >>Etc. etc. etc… You get the picture.

> > >>

> > >> So I lost my cool a little bit and told her, verbatim:

> > >> " Fine, do not go into the kitchen any more. "

> > >>

> > >> She began a whole new game after that… the " hurt victim " melodrama,

> Act 1. Each

> > >>time she wanted to get a glass of water or something from the kitchen

> she

> > >>demonstratively asked me: " Will you allow me to go to the kitchen to

> get water? "

> > >>Etc.

> > >>

> > >> Then she started escalating some more today. When I started writing

> this post

> > >>about 4 hours ago Act 2 hadn't happened yet, and now after Act 2, I am

> so

> > >>drained emotionally and physically that I can't even summon the energy

> to write

> > >>everything that happened and everything that I am feeling/thinking.

> Somewhere in

> > >>the middle of the escalation (beginning of Act 2), I got to a point

> where I just

> > >>couldn't take it any more. So I quietly and firmly asked her:

> > >> " Please leave. You should not stay here any longer. "

> > >>

> > >> I think for the first time she realized that I meant it 100% and heard

> the

> > >>determination in my voice. So of course she quickly readjusted herself

> and

> > >>flatly told me, " No, I am not going to leave. You can call the police,

> you know

> > >>how to do that, if you really want me to leave. "

> > >>

> > >> I did tell her she is mentally ill. She started giving me all kinds of

> > >>counter-arguments, which I really want to share here, but I am so

> spent,

> > >>drained, I can't even type coherently. I am going to have to give the

> details

> > >>tomorrow.

> > >>

> > >> Arianna

> > >>

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Guest guest

My take on this is that if your mother refuses to respect you as an equal,

refuses to hear your side of a discussion, discounts your feelings as

unimportant, is unwilling to accept at least half the blame and responsibility

for creating said unhappy situation, and refuses to have a rational discussion

like a rational adult human being, then, she hasn't earned the right to be

respected or catered to.

Its not easy, but you have to stop caring whether she is unhappy with you or

not. You have to get to a point where you simply do what you need to do, no

matter how nada feels about it.

What I am suggesting is that you simply be proactive. Just do what you have to

do, in a neutral way. Being proactive is not the same thing as being

disrespectful. I'm not suggesting that you call your mother horrible names,

scream at her, hit her, or humiliate her in public. I'm just suggesting that

you stop catering to her manipulative tactics out of fear of making her angry at

you.

So she's upset; she will be upset with you unless you are knuckling under to her

every whim. So... so what if she is upset with you?

The world isn't going to end if your bpd mother is upset with you.

But each of us has to figure out what will work for us as an individual. There

is no one right answer or one right way to handle anything, this is a highly

personal realm and the choices are highly personal.

But the above is my two cent's worth, to take or leave.

-Annie

> > >

> > >> I can't possibly recount every crazy conversation and rant that has

happened

> > >>over the past month and a half, so I am just going to vent about the most

recent

> > >>one.

> > >>

> > >> Yesterday, my mother roasted a chicken with some potatoes for dinner, in

> > >>addition to some veggie soup we had from earlier in the day. We had only 2

> > >>potatoes, which would definitely not be enough for the 5 people currently

at my

> > >>house (mother, me, 2 kids, guest). My older son is not very fond of

potatoes, so

> > >>he asked me if he could make some pasta in addition to the potatoes. I

gave him

> > >>my permission and went to the kitchen (where my mom was), while I

continued

> > >>studying. One minute later my mother marches into the office and starts

ranting

> > >>about how my children have no regard or respect for her, and it is because

they

> > >>see how I disrespect her and they are merely a reflection of my attitude

towards

> > >>her.

> > >>

> > >> " The children are making pasta in the kitchen while I have been slaving

away

> > >>making a nice dinner for them. " Etc. etc.

> > >>

> > >> I was bewildered, while she continued ranting. I tried to explain to her

that

> > >>it was OK, there were not enough potatoes and this would work out well.

She was

> > >>too busy being " hurt " and yelling at me.

> > >>

> > >> " I have been stuck in your kitchen the whole time I have been here,

unable to

> > >>leave, serving you like a slave, and you treat me like I am lower than a

maid…. "

> > >>Etc. etc. etc… You get the picture.

> > >>

> > >> So I lost my cool a little bit and told her, verbatim:

> > >> " Fine, do not go into the kitchen any more. "

> > >>

> > >> She began a whole new game after that… the " hurt victim " melodrama, Act

1. Each

> > >>time she wanted to get a glass of water or something from the kitchen she

> > >>demonstratively asked me: " Will you allow me to go to the kitchen to get

water? "

> > >>Etc.

> > >>

> > >> Then she started escalating some more today. When I started writing this

post

> > >>about 4 hours ago Act 2 hadn't happened yet, and now after Act 2, I am so

> > >>drained emotionally and physically that I can't even summon the energy to

write

> > >>everything that happened and everything that I am feeling/thinking.

Somewhere in

> > >>the middle of the escalation (beginning of Act 2), I got to a point where

I just

> > >>couldn't take it any more. So I quietly and firmly asked her:

> > >> " Please leave. You should not stay here any longer. "

> > >>

> > >> I think for the first time she realized that I meant it 100% and heard

the

> > >>determination in my voice. So of course she quickly readjusted herself and

> > >>flatly told me, " No, I am not going to leave. You can call the police, you

know

> > >>how to do that, if you really want me to leave. "

> > >>

> > >> I did tell her she is mentally ill. She started giving me all kinds of

> > >>counter-arguments, which I really want to share here, but I am so spent,

> > >>drained, I can't even type coherently. I am going to have to give the

details

> > >>tomorrow.

> > >>

> > >> Arianna

> > >>

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Arianna, that situation sounds AWFUL. I think I might be repeating

myself...mighta said that to your post about this before, because it sounds

friggin awful. Hugs to you! I can relate as well because some of the dynamics

with my nada are similar. The sticky part of this problem is that if you truly

stand up to her your relationship will change, perhaps even permanently end.

At least that is how it is with my nada, she's willing to go high stakes quickly

to keep having things her way. And when you still feel love for a parent and

still want them to love you that's an incredible weapon for them to wield. And

the only way to defeat it is to be willing to end the relationship yourself.

One time I did this calling my nada's bluff and going NC with her, boy was she

shocked - but she had become so upsetting I had no choice. It sounds to me

like where you are at now, you don't have much choice.

Only you know how much more you can take, how much it's worth to you not to

upset the balance of the relationship as it stands. If you do want to really

kick her out then I'd advise give her 24 hours to leave, tell her if she's not

gone you will call the police as she has advised you to do...

good luck,

julie

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