SO's self-created (and whined about) stresses PISS ME OFF...

March 16, 2011

Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I get it. I

can't share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's 'just me' or a

KO thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind, compassionate, a

champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his state's BAR

Association, regularly guest speaks at Immigration/Naturalization Ceremonies, a

real 'stand up man's man.'

But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored and

self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD ancestors) but because he

hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he avoids things (by

his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt with becomes all

consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE it gets to that

point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on himself, me, anyone

who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she rants on

everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us' but he's cowed

into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not knowing what

she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if there are

three of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. " Then he just

gets sad and cries. OMG!

He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him. Now, I'm not

totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of his stuff IS big

stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like I'm the one

'dealing with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've called him on it.

His therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called him on it. So some

change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for weeks or a month then it's

back to Eeyore.

His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has anxiety issues and has

been, in the past, situationally depressed (with cause.) She's also told him

that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life that will cost him 'us' if

he doesn't get it under control. He knows these things. He asked me if that

was true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a ring. We're

not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan is for him to

move here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many freakin' KO

triggers to 'save the world' here....

I love everything else about him but this is approaching the 'dealbreaker'

stage...

Thoughts?

Lynnette

March 16, 2011

Yes it is a KO thing. We've talked a lot about avoidant pd, sounds like

there are at least tendancies? But if he doesn't accept help and work on it

-- what can you do?

I'm sorry.

On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 11:25 AM, yp_lynnette_cameron_park <

h_l_maston@...> wrote:

>

> Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I get it. I

> can't share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's 'just me' or

> a KO thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

>

> First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind, compassionate, a

> champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his state's BAR

> Association, regularly guest speaks at Immigration/Naturalization

> Ceremonies, a real 'stand up man's man.'

>

> But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored and

> self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD ancestors) but because

> he hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he avoids things

> (by his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt with becomes

> all consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE it gets to

> that point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on himself, me,

> anyone who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

>

> His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she rants on

> everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us' but he's cowed

> into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not knowing what

> she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if there are

> three of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. " Then he just

> gets sad and cries. OMG!

>

> He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him. Now, I'm

> not totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of his stuff IS

> big stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like I'm the one

> 'dealing with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've called him on

> it. His therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called him on it.

> So some change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for weeks or a

> month then it's back to Eeyore.

>

> His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has anxiety issues

> and has been, in the past, situationally depressed (with cause.) She's also

> told him that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life that will

> cost him 'us' if he doesn't get it under control. He knows these things. He

> asked me if that was true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

>

> So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a ring. We're

> not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan is for him to

> move here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many freakin' KO

> triggers to 'save the world' here....

>

> I love everything else about him but this is approaching the 'dealbreaker'

> stage...

>

> Thoughts?

>

> Lynnette

>

March 16, 2011

Is he on anxiety medication?

On Mar 16, 2011, at 10:25 AM, yp_lynnette_cameron_park wrote:

> Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I get it. I can't

share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's 'just me' or a KO

thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

>

> First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind, compassionate, a

champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his state's BAR

Association, regularly guest speaks at Immigration/Naturalization Ceremonies, a

real 'stand up man's man.'

>

> But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored and

self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD ancestors) but because he

hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he avoids things (by

his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt with becomes all

consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE it gets to that

point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on himself, me, anyone

who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

>

> His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she rants on

everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us' but he's cowed

into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not knowing what

she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if there are three

of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. " Then he just gets sad

and cries. OMG!

>

> He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him. Now, I'm not

totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of his stuff IS big

stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like I'm the one 'dealing

with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've called him on it. His

therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called him on it. So some

change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for weeks or a month then it's

back to Eeyore.

>

> His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has anxiety issues and

has been, in the past, situationally depressed (with cause.) She's also told him

that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life that will cost him 'us' if

he doesn't get it under control. He knows these things. He asked me if that was

true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

>

> So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a ring. We're

not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan is for him to move

here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many freakin' KO triggers to

'save the world' here....

>

> I love everything else about him but this is approaching the 'dealbreaker'

stage...

>

> Thoughts?

>

> Lynnette

>

March 16, 2011

Hi,

This is interesting. The word that jumped out was " avoidant " . Children of

abuse can be attracted to people who are in some way unavailable. If he

doesn't want to put his partner's needs up there with his, he may lack

empathy. Or he's just not emotionally engaged enough to " get it " . By saying

" Eeyore " , sounds like you're saying he plays the victim and pities himself.

If he's the victim then his partner is the abuser. If you can get him to

change, great, but that's the codependent trap. If I were with a guy like

this I would feel compelled to call him out on his BS. Then there'd be

conflict and he'd get to be the victim once more. I've been in this

situation many many times. I was never able to unilaterally fix this kind of

guy. If he's so kind and compassionate, why isn't he compassionate to you?

If he's the champion of everybody, why isn't he your champion? Sounds like

he's got a pretty fabulous facade too. Warning!

Also letting you handle his problem that don't get resolved can be a passive

aggressive thing or it can be him manipulating himself into a position of

dependence. Either way, you get to play Mommy!

I don't think people change a whole lot. Good luck with this!

On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 1:25 PM, yp_lynnette_cameron_park <

h_l_maston@...> wrote:

>

> Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I get it. I

> can't share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's 'just me' or

> a KO thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

>

> First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind, compassionate, a

> champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his state's BAR

> Association, regularly guest speaks at Immigration/Naturalization

> Ceremonies, a real 'stand up man's man.'

>

> But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored and

> self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD ancestors) but because

> he hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he avoids things

> (by his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt with becomes

> all consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE it gets to

> that point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on himself, me,

> anyone who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

>

> His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she rants on

> everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us' but he's cowed

> into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not knowing what

> she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if there are

> three of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. " Then he just

> gets sad and cries. OMG!

>

> He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him. Now, I'm

> not totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of his stuff IS

> big stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like I'm the one

> 'dealing with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've called him on

> it. His therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called him on it.

> So some change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for weeks or a

> month then it's back to Eeyore.

>

> His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has anxiety issues

> and has been, in the past, situationally depressed (with cause.) She's also

> told him that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life that will

> cost him 'us' if he doesn't get it under control. He knows these things. He

> asked me if that was true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

>

> So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a ring. We're

> not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan is for him to

> move here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many freakin' KO

> triggers to 'save the world' here....

>

> I love everything else about him but this is approaching the 'dealbreaker'

> stage...

>

> Thoughts?

>

> Lynnette

>

March 16, 2011

No. No meds. Won't.

Lynnette

>

> > Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I get it. I

can't share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's 'just me' or a

KO thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

> >

> > First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind, compassionate, a

champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his state's BAR

Association, regularly guest speaks at Immigration/Naturalization Ceremonies, a

real 'stand up man's man.'

> >

> > But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored and

self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD ancestors) but because he

hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he avoids things (by

his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt with becomes all

consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE it gets to that

point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on himself, me, anyone

who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

> >

> > His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she rants on

everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us' but he's cowed

into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not knowing what

she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if there are three

of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. " Then he just gets sad

and cries. OMG!

> >

> > He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him. Now, I'm not

totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of his stuff IS big

stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like I'm the one 'dealing

with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've called him on it. His

therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called him on it. So some

change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for weeks or a month then it's

back to Eeyore.

> >

> > His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has anxiety issues and

has been, in the past, situationally depressed (with cause.) She's also told him

that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life that will cost him 'us' if

he doesn't get it under control. He knows these things. He asked me if that was

true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

> >

> > So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a ring. We're

not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan is for him to move

here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many freakin' KO triggers to

'save the world' here....

> >

> > I love everything else about him but this is approaching the 'dealbreaker'

stage...

> >

> > Thoughts?

> >

> > Lynnette

> >

>

March 16, 2011

Spot on, my Dear.

He always plays the victim. Always.

He's my Champion with 'my stuff' but the price of being the caretaker with 'his

stuff' is overwhelming right now. Then he'll accuse me of not 'caring or being

receptive to his needs' (translated, " You won't let me whine and cry when I

want to... which is pretty much all the freakin' time... and I'm

tryyyyyyyyyyyyyyying... " )

Our history is not a crazy one. We went to school together (8th - 12th grade)

and had our 'separte lives' until almost 2 years ago. Met again and started a

friendship while both involved with other people. Eventually left those people

for our own separate reasons and, after time and thought, decided to go forward.

I know how he's built. I know how he's wired. I knew his parents, his sister,

etc. No weird stuff at all.

He's the 2nd man I've been involved with in the last 19 years... so I'm not

exactly a 'flighty type'... and I don't make rash decisions... I just can't

figure out if I need to just keep myself steady and work towards my goals

(Graduating with the full Ed.D. in July ;o) and my teen (always!) and let him

stew in his own vat of therapy and self-actualization or just check out now.

Lynnette

>

> >

> > Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I get it. I

> > can't share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's 'just me' or

> > a KO thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

> >

> > First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind, compassionate, a

> > champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his state's BAR

> > Association, regularly guest speaks at Immigration/Naturalization

> > Ceremonies, a real 'stand up man's man.'

> >

> > But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored and

> > self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD ancestors) but because

> > he hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he avoids things

> > (by his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt with becomes

> > all consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE it gets to

> > that point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on himself, me,

> > anyone who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

> >

> > His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she rants on

> > everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us' but he's cowed

> > into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not knowing what

> > she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if there are

> > three of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. " Then he just

> > gets sad and cries. OMG!

> >

> > He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him. Now, I'm

> > not totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of his stuff IS

> > big stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like I'm the one

> > 'dealing with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've called him on

> > it. His therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called him on it.

> > So some change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for weeks or a

> > month then it's back to Eeyore.

> >

> > His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has anxiety issues

> > and has been, in the past, situationally depressed (with cause.) She's also

> > told him that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life that will

> > cost him 'us' if he doesn't get it under control. He knows these things. He

> > asked me if that was true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

> >

> > So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a ring. We're

> > not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan is for him to

> > move here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many freakin' KO

> > triggers to 'save the world' here....

> >

> > I love everything else about him but this is approaching the 'dealbreaker'

> > stage...

> >

> > Thoughts?

> >

> > Lynnette

> >

>

March 16, 2011

I think you have really clear insight about your SO's personality and behavioral

style, his behavioral history habits of dealing with problems. You aren't

dealing with unknown factors here, you have seen and experienced his patterns of

behavior, and its clear that they are ingrained and chronic behaviors.

So the real question is: are these behaviors and patterns of behaviors something

you want to have in your life, forever? On a daily basis? (the ex-wife on

FaceBook is going to be there every day, you know.)

Nobody is perfect, but are his good qualities sufficient for you to overlook the

aggravating, irritating qualities?

Only you can answer the question of what is it that YOU can tolerate, and what

YOU find just unbearable. Only you know how this is going to affect you,

long-term.

If marrying and living with this man is going to keep you in a perpetual

low-grade state of frustration and irritability, then, I think its not a

good-enough match. If you're going to be constantly irritated at him and

frustrated with him, you are both going to be miserable.

I hope that helps.

-Annie

>

> Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I get it. I

can't share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's 'just me' or a

KO thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

>

> First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind, compassionate, a

champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his state's BAR

Association, regularly guest speaks at Immigration/Naturalization Ceremonies, a

real 'stand up man's man.'

>

> But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored and

self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD ancestors) but because he

hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he avoids things (by

his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt with becomes all

consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE it gets to that

point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on himself, me, anyone

who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

>

> His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she rants on

everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us' but he's cowed

into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not knowing what

she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if there are

three of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. " Then he just

gets sad and cries. OMG!

>

> He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him. Now, I'm not

totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of his stuff IS big

stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like I'm the one

'dealing with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've called him on it.

His therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called him on it. So some

change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for weeks or a month then it's

back to Eeyore.

>

> His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has anxiety issues and

has been, in the past, situationally depressed (with cause.) She's also told

him that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life that will cost him

'us' if he doesn't get it under control. He knows these things. He asked me if

that was true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

>

> So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a ring. We're

not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan is for him to

move here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many freakin' KO

triggers to 'save the world' here....

>

> I love everything else about him but this is approaching the 'dealbreaker'

stage...

>

> Thoughts?

>

> Lynnette

>

March 16, 2011

I have to say, I agree with all that. Never be with someone for their

potential, they can only change if they want to, and it doesn't sound like he

wants to.

> Hi,

>

> This is interesting. The word that jumped out was " avoidant " . Children of

> abuse can be attracted to people who are in some way unavailable. If he

> doesn't want to put his partner's needs up there with his, he may lack

> empathy. Or he's just not emotionally engaged enough to " get it " . By saying

> " Eeyore " , sounds like you're saying he plays the victim and pities himself.

> If he's the victim then his partner is the abuser. If you can get him to

> change, great, but that's the codependent trap. If I were with a guy like

> this I would feel compelled to call him out on his BS. Then there'd be

> conflict and he'd get to be the victim once more. I've been in this

> situation many many times. I was never able to unilaterally fix this kind of

> guy. If he's so kind and compassionate, why isn't he compassionate to you?

> If he's the champion of everybody, why isn't he your champion? Sounds like

> he's got a pretty fabulous facade too. Warning!

>

> Also letting you handle his problem that don't get resolved can be a passive

> aggressive thing or it can be him manipulating himself into a position of

> dependence. Either way, you get to play Mommy!

>

> I don't think people change a whole lot. Good luck with this!

>

> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 1:25 PM, yp_lynnette_cameron_park <

> h_l_maston@...> wrote:

>

>>

>> Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I get it. I

>> can't share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's 'just me' or

>> a KO thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

>>

>> First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind, compassionate, a

>> champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his state's BAR

>> Association, regularly guest speaks at Immigration/Naturalization

>> Ceremonies, a real 'stand up man's man.'

>>

>> But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored and

>> self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD ancestors) but because

>> he hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he avoids things

>> (by his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt with becomes

>> all consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE it gets to

>> that point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on himself, me,

>> anyone who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

>>

>> His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she rants on

>> everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us' but he's cowed

>> into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not knowing what

>> she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if there are

>> three of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. " Then he just

>> gets sad and cries. OMG!

>>

>> He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him. Now, I'm

>> not totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of his stuff IS

>> big stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like I'm the one

>> 'dealing with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've called him on

>> it. His therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called him on it.

>> So some change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for weeks or a

>> month then it's back to Eeyore.

>>

>> His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has anxiety issues

>> and has been, in the past, situationally depressed (with cause.) She's also

>> told him that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life that will

>> cost him 'us' if he doesn't get it under control. He knows these things. He

>> asked me if that was true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

>>

>> So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a ring. We're

>> not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan is for him to

>> move here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many freakin' KO

>> triggers to 'save the world' here....

>>

>> I love everything else about him but this is approaching the 'dealbreaker'

>> stage...

>>

>> Thoughts?

>>

>> Lynnette

>>

>

March 16, 2011

Another redflag.

On Mar 16, 2011, at 10:48 AM, yp_lynnette_cameron_park wrote:

> No. No meds. Won't.

>

> Lynnette

>

> >

> > > Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I get it. I

can't share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's 'just me' or a

KO thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

> > >

> > > First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind, compassionate,

a champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his state's BAR

Association, regularly guest speaks at Immigration/Naturalization Ceremonies, a

real 'stand up man's man.'

> > >

> > > But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored and

self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD ancestors) but because he

hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he avoids things (by

his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt with becomes all

consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE it gets to that

point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on himself, me, anyone

who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

> > >

> > > His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she rants on

everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us' but he's cowed

into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not knowing what

she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if there are three

of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. " Then he just gets sad

and cries. OMG!

> > >

> > > He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him. Now, I'm

not totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of his stuff IS big

stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like I'm the one 'dealing

with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've called him on it. His

therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called him on it. So some

change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for weeks or a month then it's

back to Eeyore.

> > >

> > > His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has anxiety issues

and has been, in the past, situationally depressed (with cause.) She's also told

him that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life that will cost him

'us' if he doesn't get it under control. He knows these things. He asked me if

that was true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

> > >

> > > So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a ring.

We're not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan is for him

to move here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many freakin' KO

triggers to 'save the world' here....

> > >

> > > I love everything else about him but this is approaching the 'dealbreaker'

stage...

> > >

> > > Thoughts?

> > >

> > > Lynnette

> > >

> >

March 16, 2011

I looked up APD... a few hit but not many. I tend to believe that he's

situtionally needy... and that just doesn't fly.

Here's a classic avoidant thing I dealt with w/him in Jan.

After some big issues @ Christmas, he said (again) that he has severe avoidant

issues (according to his therapist) and that he was going to re-visit working on

those with Therapist when he returned to his home after the Holiday's. He was

'committed to getting a grasp on these so *I* didn't walk away.'

Well, a few days later, he's home. Two days after that he has a Therapy appt.

He has chosen to tell me snippets, I don't ask. He told me he had the appt and

it went exceedingly well and really opened some doors. I, first time ever,

said, " How are the steps for dealing with the avoidance stuff? What you

committed to talking about... "

His reply (wait for it).... " ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh....... thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat.... hehe,

well I didn't really get to that. I didn't want to ruin a really good

conversation. I'll get there later. "

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

That's pretty typical stuff.

Lynnette

>

> >

> > Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I get it. I

> > can't share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's 'just me' or

> > a KO thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

> >

> > First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind, compassionate, a

> > champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his state's BAR

> > Association, regularly guest speaks at Immigration/Naturalization

> > Ceremonies, a real 'stand up man's man.'

> >

> > But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored and

> > self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD ancestors) but because

> > he hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he avoids things

> > (by his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt with becomes

> > all consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE it gets to

> > that point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on himself, me,

> > anyone who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

> >

> > His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she rants on

> > everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us' but he's cowed

> > into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not knowing what

> > she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if there are

> > three of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. " Then he just

> > gets sad and cries. OMG!

> >

> > He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him. Now, I'm

> > not totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of his stuff IS

> > big stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like I'm the one

> > 'dealing with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've called him on

> > it. His therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called him on it.

> > So some change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for weeks or a

> > month then it's back to Eeyore.

> >

> > His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has anxiety issues

> > and has been, in the past, situationally depressed (with cause.) She's also

> > told him that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life that will

> > cost him 'us' if he doesn't get it under control. He knows these things. He

> > asked me if that was true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

> >

> > So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a ring. We're

> > not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan is for him to

> > move here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many freakin' KO

> > triggers to 'save the world' here....

> >

> > I love everything else about him but this is approaching the 'dealbreaker'

> > stage...

> >

> > Thoughts?

> >

> > Lynnette

> >

>

March 16, 2011

I wish you happiness in your life and relationships. :-) But you're probably

going to get to play out codependent stuff with this guy. It would be cool

if you didn't have to though. Sooner or later I become disgusted with this

dynamic and I just can't stand it anymore and I get out. Anyone who makes me

the " bad guy " ! Oooooooh watch out. I'm old enough to know what that's about.

Also since you don't live together and youre not married, you can look

forward to his behavior actually getting worse. Now he's still trying to

stay in your good graces. You're not stuck yet.

On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 1:55 PM, yp_lynnette_cameron_park <

h_l_maston@...> wrote:

>

> Spot on, my Dear.

>

> He always plays the victim. Always.

>

> He's my Champion with 'my stuff' but the price of being the caretaker with

> 'his stuff' is overwhelming right now. Then he'll accuse me of not 'caring

> or being receptive to his needs' (translated, " You won't let me whine and

> cry when I want to... which is pretty much all the freakin' time... and I'm

> tryyyyyyyyyyyyyyying... " )

>

> Our history is not a crazy one. We went to school together (8th - 12th

> grade) and had our 'separte lives' until almost 2 years ago. Met again and

> started a friendship while both involved with other people. Eventually left

> those people for our own separate reasons and, after time and thought,

> decided to go forward. I know how he's built. I know how he's wired. I knew

> his parents, his sister, etc. No weird stuff at all.

>

> He's the 2nd man I've been involved with in the last 19 years... so I'm not

> exactly a 'flighty type'... and I don't make rash decisions... I just can't

> figure out if I need to just keep myself steady and work towards my goals

> (Graduating with the full Ed.D. in July ;o) and my teen (always!) and let

> him stew in his own vat of therapy and self-actualization or just check out

> now.

>

> Lynnette

>

> >

> > >

> > > Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I get it.

> I

> > > can't share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's 'just

> me' or

> > > a KO thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

> > >

> > > First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind,

> compassionate, a

> > > champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his state's

> BAR

> > > Association, regularly guest speaks at Immigration/Naturalization

> > > Ceremonies, a real 'stand up man's man.'

> > >

> > > But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored and

> > > self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD ancestors) but

> because

> > > he hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he avoids

> things

> > > (by his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt with

> becomes

> > > all consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE it gets

> to

> > > that point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on himself,

> me,

> > > anyone who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

> > >

> > > His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she rants on

> > > everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us' but he's

> cowed

> > > into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not knowing

> what

> > > she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if there

> are

> > > three of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. " Then he

> just

> > > gets sad and cries. OMG!

> > >

> > > He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him. Now,

> I'm

> > > not totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of his

> stuff IS

> > > big stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like I'm the

> one

> > > 'dealing with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've called him

> on

> > > it. His therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called him on

> it.

> > > So some change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for weeks or

> a

> > > month then it's back to Eeyore.

> > >

> > > His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has anxiety

> issues

> > > and has been, in the past, situationally depressed (with cause.) She's

> also

> > > told him that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life that

> will

> > > cost him 'us' if he doesn't get it under control. He knows these

> things. He

> > > asked me if that was true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

> > >

> > > So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a ring.

> We're

> > > not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan is for

> him to

> > > move here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many freakin' KO

> > > triggers to 'save the world' here....

> > >

> > > I love everything else about him but this is approaching the

> 'dealbreaker'

> > > stage...

> > >

> > > Thoughts?

> > >

> > > Lynnette

> > >

> >

March 16, 2011

Yep, Annie...that's where I am right now.

Is this a KO reaction thing on MY part and really, in the big scheme of things,

not a big deal...

Or is this a HUGE thing and I'm negating my own needs here by staying.

That is a dance I can't figure out.

Lynnette

> >

> > Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I get it.

I can't share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's 'just me' or

a KO thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

> >

> > First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind, compassionate, a

champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his state's BAR

Association, regularly guest speaks at Immigration/Naturalization Ceremonies, a

real 'stand up man's man.'

> >

> > But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored and

self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD ancestors) but because he

hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he avoids things (by

his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt with becomes all

consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE it gets to that

point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on himself, me, anyone

who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

> >

> > His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she rants on

everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us' but he's cowed

into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not knowing what

she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if there are

three of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. " Then he just

gets sad and cries. OMG!

> >

> > He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him. Now, I'm

not totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of his stuff IS big

stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like I'm the one

'dealing with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've called him on it.

His therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called him on it. So some

change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for weeks or a month then it's

back to Eeyore.

> >

> > His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has anxiety issues and

has been, in the past, situationally depressed (with cause.) She's also told

him that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life that will cost him

'us' if he doesn't get it under control. He knows these things. He asked me if

that was true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

> >

> > So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a ring.

We're not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan is for him

to move here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many freakin' KO

triggers to 'save the world' here....

> >

> > I love everything else about him but this is approaching the 'dealbreaker'

stage...

> >

> > Thoughts?

> >

> > Lynnette

> >

>

March 16, 2011

I played 'Bad Guy' to a NPD for almost 4 years til I bailed. I won't do that

again... icky!

I also don't dance the co-dependent boogie... sorry.

My inner time-table is to sit still and see if his therapy commitment is strong

enough for him to work on his stuff and get through it before we move forward

to marriage - which he wants by the end of this year - and I have no need to

jump into out of desperation.

I've already hit disgusted... and I will never again be 'stuck' but I also don't

want to flush him away without seeing if this whole 'thing' is just a rolling

series of events of bad luck and he's taken too many hits in the last year to

right himself just yet.

Time will tell...

Lynnette

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I get it.

> > I

> > > > can't share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's 'just

> > me' or

> > > > a KO thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

> > > >

> > > > First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind,

> > compassionate, a

> > > > champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his state's

> > BAR

> > > > Association, regularly guest speaks at Immigration/Naturalization

> > > > Ceremonies, a real 'stand up man's man.'

> > > >

> > > > But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored and

> > > > self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD ancestors) but

> > because

> > > > he hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he avoids

> > things

> > > > (by his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt with

> > becomes

> > > > all consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE it gets

> > to

> > > > that point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on himself,

> > me,

> > > > anyone who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

> > > >

> > > > His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she rants on

> > > > everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us' but he's

> > cowed

> > > > into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not knowing

> > what

> > > > she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if there

> > are

> > > > three of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. " Then he

> > just

> > > > gets sad and cries. OMG!

> > > >

> > > > He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him. Now,

> > I'm

> > > > not totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of his

> > stuff IS

> > > > big stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like I'm the

> > one

> > > > 'dealing with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've called him

> > on

> > > > it. His therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called him on

> > it.

> > > > So some change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for weeks or

> > a

> > > > month then it's back to Eeyore.

> > > >

> > > > His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has anxiety

> > issues

> > > > and has been, in the past, situationally depressed (with cause.) She's

> > also

> > > > told him that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life that

> > will

> > > > cost him 'us' if he doesn't get it under control. He knows these

> > things. He

> > > > asked me if that was true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

> > > >

> > > > So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a ring.

> > We're

> > > > not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan is for

> > him to

> > > > move here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many freakin' KO

> > > > triggers to 'save the world' here....

> > > >

> > > > I love everything else about him but this is approaching the

> > 'dealbreaker'

> > > > stage...

> > > >

> > > > Thoughts?

> > > >

> > > > Lynnette

> > > >

> > >

March 16, 2011

Hi,

I'm might not be doing this right but I was wondering if this link says

something to you:

http://www.ptypes.com/compensatory-narpd.html

There's something I call a " victim narcissist " . He always wants me to take

care of him and feel guilty for him and pity him. I'm supposed to be

everything his mother was supposed to be I guess. I think it's called a

compensatory narcissist. Very curious what you might think.

On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 2:10 PM, yp_lynnette_cameron_park <

h_l_maston@...> wrote:

>

> I played 'Bad Guy' to a NPD for almost 4 years til I bailed. I won't do

> that again... icky!

>

> I also don't dance the co-dependent boogie... sorry.

>

> My inner time-table is to sit still and see if his therapy commitment is

> strong enough for him to work on his stuff and get through it before we move

> forward to marriage - which he wants by the end of this year - and I have no

> need to jump into out of desperation.

>

> I've already hit disgusted... and I will never again be 'stuck' but I also

> don't want to flush him away without seeing if this whole 'thing' is just a

> rolling series of events of bad luck and he's taken too many hits in the

> last year to right himself just yet.

>

> Time will tell...

>

> Lynnette

>

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I get

> it.

> > > I

> > > > > can't share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's

> 'just

> > > me' or

> > > > > a KO thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

> > > > >

> > > > > First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind,

> > > compassionate, a

> > > > > champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his

> state's

> > > BAR

> > > > > Association, regularly guest speaks at Immigration/Naturalization

> > > > > Ceremonies, a real 'stand up man's man.'

> > > > >

> > > > > But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored and

> > > > > self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD ancestors)

> but

> > > because

> > > > > he hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he

> avoids

> > > things

> > > > > (by his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt with

> > > becomes

> > > > > all consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE it

> gets

> > > to

> > > > > that point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on

> himself,

> > > me,

> > > > > anyone who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

> > > > >

> > > > > His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she rants

> on

> > > > > everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us' but

> he's

> > > cowed

> > > > > into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not

> knowing

> > > what

> > > > > she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if

> there

> > > are

> > > > > three of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. " Then

> he

> > > just

> > > > > gets sad and cries. OMG!

> > > > >

> > > > > He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him.

> Now,

> > > I'm

> > > > > not totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of his

> > > stuff IS

> > > > > big stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like I'm

> the

> > > one

> > > > > 'dealing with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've called

> him

> > > on

> > > > > it. His therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called him

> on

> > > it.

> > > > > So some change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for weeks

> or

> > > a

> > > > > month then it's back to Eeyore.

> > > > >

> > > > > His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has anxiety

> > > issues

> > > > > and has been, in the past, situationally depressed (with cause.)

> She's

> > > also

> > > > > told him that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life that

> > > will

> > > > > cost him 'us' if he doesn't get it under control. He knows these

> > > things. He

> > > > > asked me if that was true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

> > > > >

> > > > > So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a

> ring.

> > > We're

> > > > > not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan is

> for

> > > him to

> > > > > move here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many

> freakin' KO

> > > > > triggers to 'save the world' here....

> > > > >

> > > > > I love everything else about him but this is approaching the

> > > 'dealbreaker'

> > > > > stage...

> > > > >

> > > > > Thoughts?

> > > > >

> > > > > Lynnette

> > > > >

> > > >

March 16, 2011

Maybe start keeping a little log; after you see him/talk to him, write down

whether you are mostly happy or mostly unhappy afterward, with " 0 " being

neutral, " + " numbers being the degree of happy, and " - " numbers being the degree

of unhappy.

I suggest that if after a few weeks you are jotting down that you are mostly

happy after most interactions, then the relationship has good potential.

If however after most visits you write down that you are neutral or actively

unhappy, then, that would be an indicator that you two are not very compatible.

PLUS I agree that before marriage you are seeing him at his BEST.

Its just human nature to put your best foot forward when you're trying to

impress someone, particularly a potential mate. So whatever irritates you now

will just increase in frequency and intensity after marriage.

Or, perhaps try making a list: in one column are his good qualities that you

love, admire, or find endearing, and the other column list the bad or irritating

qualities, and see which list is longer.

If all things tote up equally, then, it again boils down to *you* and your

ability to either see things and deal with things in an easy-going way, or if

you feel you're going to be constantly tweaked and triggered by him. This is

about knowing yourself, really, seems to me.

Or to put it another way: would you marry him tomorrow just as he is right now,

knowing that he will never change his negative behaviors that irritate you,

ever? If that isn't very palatable to you, then, my answer would be that in my

opinion its probably not a good match.

I don't think its a good idea to marry someone with the idea that they're going

to change for you. I think that will only lead to greater disappointment and

unhappiness for both of you in the long run.

-Annie

> > >

> > > Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I get

it. I can't share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's 'just

me' or a KO thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

> > >

> > > First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind, compassionate,

a champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his state's BAR

Association, regularly guest speaks at Immigration/Naturalization Ceremonies, a

real 'stand up man's man.'

> > >

> > > But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored and

self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD ancestors) but because he

hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he avoids things (by

his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt with becomes all

consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE it gets to that

point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on himself, me, anyone

who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

> > >

> > > His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she rants on

everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us' but he's cowed

into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not knowing what

she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if there are

three of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. " Then he just

gets sad and cries. OMG!

> > >

> > > He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him. Now, I'm

not totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of his stuff IS big

stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like I'm the one

'dealing with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've called him on it.

His therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called him on it. So some

change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for weeks or a month then it's

back to Eeyore.

> > >

> > > His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has anxiety issues

and has been, in the past, situationally depressed (with cause.) She's also

told him that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life that will cost

him 'us' if he doesn't get it under control. He knows these things. He asked

me if that was true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

> > >

> > > So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a ring.

We're not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan is for him

to move here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many freakin' KO

triggers to 'save the world' here....

> > >

> > > I love everything else about him but this is approaching the 'dealbreaker'

stage...

> > >

> > > Thoughts?

> > >

> > > Lynnette

> > >

> >

>

March 16, 2011

Interesting. I know his mother doted on him (his parents were much older and

from the " silent generation " and never spoke of feelings, etc.) His father

never taught him to do anything 'practical' (cars, tools, mechanics, etc.) SO

is a classically trained musician who has played in a variety of venues since he

was 11... but he's useless in real world situations. His sister (class

valedectorian of H.s. and college with a high paying journalism career)

self-sacrificed her life to a man who was dying of cancer (for 15 years) and

wouldn't marry her... then she got preg. by a wild child alcoholic and currently

lives in hell. They were 'good stable parents' but they did not prepare their

kids for the crazies of the world... maybe there is more to look at in that

vein.

I know he means no harm to me at all... he's not mean, or cruel or any of the

'bad' things... he just sucks the energy off of me when he refuses to be

pro-active and, instead, go 'victim unable to cope.'

LYnnette

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I get

> > it.

> > > > I

> > > > > > can't share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's

> > 'just

> > > > me' or

> > > > > > a KO thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind,

> > > > compassionate, a

> > > > > > champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his

> > state's

> > > > BAR

> > > > > > Association, regularly guest speaks at Immigration/Naturalization

> > > > > > Ceremonies, a real 'stand up man's man.'

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored and

> > > > > > self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD ancestors)

> > but

> > > > because

> > > > > > he hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he

> > avoids

> > > > things

> > > > > > (by his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt with

> > > > becomes

> > > > > > all consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE it

> > gets

> > > > to

> > > > > > that point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on

> > himself,

> > > > me,

> > > > > > anyone who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she rants

> > on

> > > > > > everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us' but

> > he's

> > > > cowed

> > > > > > into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not

> > knowing

> > > > what

> > > > > > she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if

> > there

> > > > are

> > > > > > three of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. " Then

> > he

> > > > just

> > > > > > gets sad and cries. OMG!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him.

> > Now,

> > > > I'm

> > > > > > not totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of his

> > > > stuff IS

> > > > > > big stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like I'm

> > the

> > > > one

> > > > > > 'dealing with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've called

> > him

> > > > on

> > > > > > it. His therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called him

> > on

> > > > it.

> > > > > > So some change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for weeks

> > or

> > > > a

> > > > > > month then it's back to Eeyore.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has anxiety

> > > > issues

> > > > > > and has been, in the past, situationally depressed (with cause.)

> > She's

> > > > also

> > > > > > told him that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life that

> > > > will

> > > > > > cost him 'us' if he doesn't get it under control. He knows these

> > > > things. He

> > > > > > asked me if that was true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a

> > ring.

> > > > We're

> > > > > > not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan is

> > for

> > > > him to

> > > > > > move here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many

> > freakin' KO

> > > > > > triggers to 'save the world' here....

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I love everything else about him but this is approaching the

> > > > 'dealbreaker'

> > > > > > stage...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thoughts?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lynnette

> > > > > >

> > > > >

March 16, 2011

My ex would do stuff like that.Â Money always burned a hole in his pocket, so

he

would get us in financial difficulties, and he would get " depressed " and

wouldn't deal with it, so I, and on occasionÂ his parents, had toÂ figure out

how

to pay the bills he ran up.Â I tried various things, such as taking away

hisÂ debit card and hiding theÂ checks, but he always found a way to spend the

money.Â And, it was always my fault....I was hoarding the money and not letting

him have any, and when he found out that wasn't true, it was my fault I didn't

say anything toÂ him.Â I did say something to him, he just didn't want to

listen.Â That's one of the reasons he's now my ex.

janet

Â

Â Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own

understanding.

Â In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Â Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

Â It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.

Proverbs 3:5-8

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 1:54:25 PM

Subject: Re: SO's self-created (and whined about) stresses

PISS ME OFF...

Â

Interesting. I know his mother doted on him (his parents were much older and

from the " silent generation " and never spoke of feelings, etc.) His father never

taught him to do anything 'practical' (cars, tools, mechanics, etc.) SO is a

classically trained musician who has played in a variety of venues since he was

11... but he's useless in real world situations. His sister (class valedectorian

of H.s. and college with a high paying journalism career) self-sacrificed her

life to a man who was dying of cancer (for 15 years) and wouldn't marry her...

then she got preg. by a wild child alcoholic and currently lives in hell. They

were 'good stable parents' but they did not prepare their kids for the crazies

of the world... maybe there is more to look at in that vein.

I know he means no harm to me at all... he's not mean, or cruel or any of the

'bad' things... he just sucks the energy off of me when he refuses to be

pro-active and, instead, go 'victim unable to cope.'

LYnnette

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I get

> > it.

> > > > I

> > > > > > can't share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's

> > 'just

> > > > me' or

> > > > > > a KO thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind,

> > > > compassionate, a

> > > > > > champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his

> > state's

> > > > BAR

> > > > > > Association, regularly guest speaks at Immigration/Naturalization

> > > > > > Ceremonies, a real 'stand up man's man.'

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored and

> > > > > > self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD ancestors)

> > but

> > > > because

> > > > > > he hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he

> > avoids

> > > > things

> > > > > > (by his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt with

> > > > becomes

> > > > > > all consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE it

> > gets

> > > > to

> > > > > > that point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on

> > himself,

> > > > me,

> > > > > > anyone who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she rants

> > on

> > > > > > everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us' but

> > he's

> > > > cowed

> > > > > > into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not

> > knowing

> > > > what

> > > > > > she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if

> > there

> > > > are

> > > > > > three of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. " Then

> > he

> > > > just

> > > > > > gets sad and cries. OMG!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him.

> > Now,

> > > > I'm

> > > > > > not totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of his

> > > > stuff IS

> > > > > > big stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like I'm

> > the

> > > > one

> > > > > > 'dealing with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've called

> > him

> > > > on

> > > > > > it. His therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called him

> > on

> > > > it.

> > > > > > So some change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for weeks

> > or

> > > > a

> > > > > > month then it's back to Eeyore.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has anxiety

> > > > issues

> > > > > > and has been, in the past, situationally depressed (with cause.)

> > She's

> > > > also

> > > > > > told him that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life that

> > > > will

> > > > > > cost him 'us' if he doesn't get it under control. He knows these

> > > > things. He

> > > > > > asked me if that was true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a

> > ring.

> > > > We're

> > > > > > not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan is

> > for

> > > > him to

> > > > > > move here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many

> > freakin' KO

> > > > > > triggers to 'save the world' here....

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I love everything else about him but this is approaching the

> > > > 'dealbreaker'

> > > > > > stage...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thoughts?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lynnette

> > > > > >

> > > > >

March 16, 2011

I think you've gotten some really great info. bottom line: If you're happy

then it's good. If it's good then it's good. I can tell you want this to

work out but people with dysfunctional personalities do what works for them.

Going victim works for him. Maybe he's not doing anything " bad " but victims

needs villains. And sucking energy and being a dependent baby is not at all

functional or adult. Only a codependent is ready to make excuses and hope

for change. All that matters is your happiness. I hope it gets better but is

that a reasonable expectation? I wouldn't bet on it for sure but who knows?

On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 2:54 PM, yp_lynnette_cameron_park <

h_l_maston@...> wrote:

>

> Interesting. I know his mother doted on him (his parents were much older

> and from the " silent generation " and never spoke of feelings, etc.) His

> father never taught him to do anything 'practical' (cars, tools, mechanics,

> etc.) SO is a classically trained musician who has played in a variety of

> venues since he was 11... but he's useless in real world situations. His

> sister (class valedectorian of H.s. and college with a high paying

> journalism career) self-sacrificed her life to a man who was dying of cancer

> (for 15 years) and wouldn't marry her... then she got preg. by a wild child

> alcoholic and currently lives in hell. They were 'good stable parents' but

> they did not prepare their kids for the crazies of the world... maybe there

> is more to look at in that vein.

>

> I know he means no harm to me at all... he's not mean, or cruel or any of

> the 'bad' things... he just sucks the energy off of me when he refuses to be

> pro-active and, instead, go 'victim unable to cope.'

>

> LYnnette

>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I

> get

> > > it.

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > can't share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's

> > > 'just

> > > > > me' or

> > > > > > > a KO thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind,

> > > > > compassionate, a

> > > > > > > champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his

> > > state's

> > > > > BAR

> > > > > > > Association, regularly guest speaks at

> Immigration/Naturalization

> > > > > > > Ceremonies, a real 'stand up man's man.'

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored

> and

> > > > > > > self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD

> ancestors)

> > > but

> > > > > because

> > > > > > > he hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he

> > > avoids

> > > > > things

> > > > > > > (by his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt

> with

> > > > > becomes

> > > > > > > all consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE

> it

> > > gets

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > that point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on

> > > himself,

> > > > > me,

> > > > > > > anyone who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she

> rants

> > > on

> > > > > > > everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us'

> but

> > > he's

> > > > > cowed

> > > > > > > into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not

> > > knowing

> > > > > what

> > > > > > > she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if

> > > there

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > three of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. "

> Then

> > > he

> > > > > just

> > > > > > > gets sad and cries. OMG!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him.

> > > Now,

> > > > > I'm

> > > > > > > not totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of

> his

> > > > > stuff IS

> > > > > > > big stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like

> I'm

> > > the

> > > > > one

> > > > > > > 'dealing with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've

> called

> > > him

> > > > > on

> > > > > > > it. His therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called

> him

> > > on

> > > > > it.

> > > > > > > So some change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for

> weeks

> > > or

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > month then it's back to Eeyore.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has

> anxiety

> > > > > issues

> > > > > > > and has been, in the past, situationally depressed (with

> cause.)

> > > She's

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > told him that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life

> that

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > cost him 'us' if he doesn't get it under control. He knows

> these

> > > > > things. He

> > > > > > > asked me if that was true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a

> > > ring.

> > > > > We're

> > > > > > > not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan

> is

> > > for

> > > > > him to

> > > > > > > move here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many

> > > freakin' KO

> > > > > > > triggers to 'save the world' here....

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I love everything else about him but this is approaching the

> > > > > 'dealbreaker'

> > > > > > > stage...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thoughts?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Lynnette

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

March 16, 2011

Well, he knows where I stand. He knows what my timeline is. I play NO games

that encourage/validate this. I'm standing my ground. He has the tools to deal

with his issues. He's a smart man. Now, whether he chooses to pick them up and

use them is up to him. For our sake, I hope he does. But I'm not going to

force, demand, expect him to. His choice has to be his choice.

Lynnette

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I

> > get

> > > > it.

> > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > can't share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's

> > > > 'just

> > > > > > me' or

> > > > > > > > a KO thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind,

> > > > > > compassionate, a

> > > > > > > > champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his

> > > > state's

> > > > > > BAR

> > > > > > > > Association, regularly guest speaks at

> > Immigration/Naturalization

> > > > > > > > Ceremonies, a real 'stand up man's man.'

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored

> > and

> > > > > > > > self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD

> > ancestors)

> > > > but

> > > > > > because

> > > > > > > > he hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he

> > > > avoids

> > > > > > things

> > > > > > > > (by his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt

> > with

> > > > > > becomes

> > > > > > > > all consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE

> > it

> > > > gets

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > that point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on

> > > > himself,

> > > > > > me,

> > > > > > > > anyone who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she

> > rants

> > > > on

> > > > > > > > everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us'

> > but

> > > > he's

> > > > > > cowed

> > > > > > > > into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not

> > > > knowing

> > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if

> > > > there

> > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > three of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. "

> > Then

> > > > he

> > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > gets sad and cries. OMG!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him.

> > > > Now,

> > > > > > I'm

> > > > > > > > not totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of

> > his

> > > > > > stuff IS

> > > > > > > > big stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like

> > I'm

> > > > the

> > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > 'dealing with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've

> > called

> > > > him

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > it. His therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called

> > him

> > > > on

> > > > > > it.

> > > > > > > > So some change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for

> > weeks

> > > > or

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > month then it's back to Eeyore.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has

> > anxiety

> > > > > > issues

> > > > > > > > and has been, in the past, situationally depressed (with

> > cause.)

> > > > She's

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > told him that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life

> > that

> > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > cost him 'us' if he doesn't get it under control. He knows

> > these

> > > > > > things. He

> > > > > > > > asked me if that was true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a

> > > > ring.

> > > > > > We're

> > > > > > > > not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan

> > is

> > > > for

> > > > > > him to

> > > > > > > > move here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many

> > > > freakin' KO

> > > > > > > > triggers to 'save the world' here....

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I love everything else about him but this is approaching the

> > > > > > 'dealbreaker'

> > > > > > > > stage...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thoughts?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lynnette

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

March 17, 2011

Lynnette, isn't this the very definition of a " waif " ? I'm more aggravated by my

nada when she's the waif than when she's the witch! The emotional manipulation

just makes me see red. I can't imagine voluntarily taking that on for the rest

of my life. I believe that men need our respect, even more than love. Can you

respect this man? Even if he truly changed, which I doubt he can or will do?

I'm not talking about him having to become some he-man, macho type (that was

kind of a big thing in the 70's, I think - that really dates me, lol), I'm

thinking about integrity, maturity, willingness to sacrifice for another's good.

When he's not with you, how big is the hole that he leaves in your life?

Joy

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ok... so that's harsh. Really. Really. Mean spirited. Harsh. I get

> > > it.

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > can't share this anywhere but here. So I'm going to see if it's

> > > 'just

> > > > > me' or

> > > > > > > a KO thing. Feel free to be brutally honest.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > First let me say that SO is a wonderful human being. Kind,

> > > > > compassionate, a

> > > > > > > champion of everybody. He's an attorney, was President of his

> > > state's

> > > > > BAR

> > > > > > > Association, regularly guest speaks at Immigration/Naturalization

> > > > > > > Ceremonies, a real 'stand up man's man.'

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But he creates a lot of his own drama. Not because he's bored and

> > > > > > > self-generates things for fun and games (like our BPD ancestors)

> > > but

> > > > > because

> > > > > > > he hates conflict with people and thus, things snowball and he

> > > avoids

> > > > > things

> > > > > > > (by his own admission) and then what could be small and dealt with

> > > > > becomes

> > > > > > > all consuming and his response is not to take care of it BEFORE it

> > > gets

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > that point but rather to whine about it and go all " Eeyore " on

> > > himself,

> > > > > me,

> > > > > > > anyone who will listen, etc. It's driving me #$%@@$#% crazy!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > His ex wife is BPD. But he won't un-friend her on FB and she rants

> > > on

> > > > > > > everything... I've told him what this does to me, and to 'us' but

> > > he's

> > > > > cowed

> > > > > > > into believing that knowing what she's doing is better than not

> > > knowing

> > > > > what

> > > > > > > she's doing. I've said, 'that's great. But I won't marry you if

> > > there

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > three of us in this relationship. Right now, she's here too. " Then

> > > he

> > > > > just

> > > > > > > gets sad and cries. OMG!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > He's had one thing after another for as long as I've known him.

> > > Now,

> > > > > I'm

> > > > > > > not totally heartless, I GET that things happen... and some of his

> > > > > stuff IS

> > > > > > > big stuff... ok, fine. We'll deal with it.... but it seems like

I'm

> > > the

> > > > > one

> > > > > > > 'dealing with it' and he is content to let that happen. I've

called

> > > him

> > > > > on

> > > > > > > it. His therapist has called him on it. My therapist has called

him

> > > on

> > > > > it.

> > > > > > > So some change will happen and he'll be 'back in control' for

weeks

> > > or

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > month then it's back to Eeyore.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > His therapist has told him (and he's told me) that he has anxiety

> > > > > issues

> > > > > > > and has been, in the past, situationally depressed (with cause.)

> > > She's

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > told him that he has avoidance tendancies in his personal life

that

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > cost him 'us' if he doesn't get it under control. He knows these

> > > > > things. He

> > > > > > > asked me if that was true. I told him yes. Then he went Eeyore.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So... I haven't 'signed a contract' with him. I'm not wearing a

> > > ring.

> > > > > We're

> > > > > > > not under the same roof. He's 1/2 a country away and the plan is

> > > for

> > > > > him to

> > > > > > > move here. But I can't 'do' this... not like this. Too many

> > > freakin' KO

> > > > > > > triggers to 'save the world' here....

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I love everything else about him but this is approaching the

> > > > > 'dealbreaker'

> > > > > > > stage...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thoughts?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Lynnette

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

March 17, 2011

Good call Joy. I was trying to say compensatory narcissist or victim

narcissist but that's another word for waif which is more of a borderline

thing. AND borderlines are these things too. How many times did I find

someone who was great who was just like mom and dad. It's so tricky! The

obvious ones I figure out right away but I'm still picking them up.

On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 10:19 AM, crazydoggroomer <

crazydoglady@...> wrote:

>

> Lynnette, isn't this the very definition of a " waif " ? I'm more aggravated

> by my nada when she's the waif than when she's the witch! The emotional

> manipulation just makes me see red. I can't imagine voluntarily taking that

> on for the rest of my life. I believe that men need our respect, even more

> than love. Can you respect this man? Even if he truly changed, which I doubt

> he can or will do? I'm not talking about him having to become some he-man,

> macho type (that was kind of a big thing in the 70's, I think - that really

> dates me, lol), I'm thinking about integrity, maturity, willingness to

> sacrifice for another's good. When he's not with you, how big is the hole

> that he leaves in your life?

>

> Joy

>

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