Newbie question: How do U help sibling see the BP parent for what they are?

[Guest guest]

OK... so I started therapy late last year after thinking for years that I was

either crazy or completely skewed somehow. I told her that I was there because

of childhood issues and things that are still problems with my mother. After

looking at my list of issues (and some of thee things I believed had created the

issues) my counselor said, " I believe your mother has bipolar disorder. " After

doing some reading, I got really excited! It all fit! Finally (for the first

time) some of it made " sense " - she has BP! I have had so many " a-ha " moments as

I've learned more in recent weeks.

I'm already doing a fairly low contact thing with my mother, but my father and

brother are pushing me to have more. They still don't know she is BP and they

still seem to think if you " just call a little more often " " just let her come to

your house and spend more time with you " " just make time to go to lunch with

her " etc. things will get better! I'm 37 (bro is 35) and it's never worked

before - won't work now. The less contact I have, the more she tries to escalate

(has brother telling me to call her more, her " illnesses " increase/worsen, etc.)

Here's the stickler... I don't know how to try to get my brother to understand

that our mom is BP. He shares MANY of her tendencies, though I don't think he is

BP but just (sadly) negatively influenced by her growing up. He is also the

" favorite " child - the one who could do no wrong (even though he doesn't work

full-time to this day and relies on the folks to pay his rent, insurance, etc.)

- another thing that is apparently fairly common to BP parents.

Anyway, he IS very annoyed with all of her negativity and he also is tired of

her constant health complaints and thinks she should do things to get healthier

rather than just complaining. HOWEVER, when it comes to the passive-aggressive

manipulative stuff, he doesn't see it. He thinks she is just " lonely " or

" depressed " and just needs some more TLC and to get out of the house more. (She

has isolated herself by being so negative that she has no friends, her sisters

rarely talk to her (and live in other states so never have to see her) and she

has destroyed any/all career and volunteer opportunities.)

I tried talking to my brother recently and told him I was seeing a counselor,

etc. but I did NOT come right out and say " mom is BP " because I don't want him

to get defensive. I also tried talking to my dad to say that it doesn't matter

if I call twice a day instead of once a week - it won't be enough and it won't

change things. I think my dad see this and knows this, but after being married

to her for 40+ years he is not going to rock the boat. My brother, being the

favorite, has a better shot than probably anyone else at getting her to

counseling... but I'd have to have him on board first. HOW do I do this? He

won't be a defensive as she will, but it might be close or " you're just

exaggerating " etc. because his experience was different from mine (not nearly as

bad - he was the angelic son who could really never do wrong).

HELP?!?

[Guest guest]

If your mother has bi-polar disorder, that is supposed to respond well to both

talk therapy and drug therapy. Its not the same thing as borderline personality

disorder. (Although they share the trait of mood swings.)

This group's focus is on parents with borderline personality disorder, which

unfortunately doesn't seem to be as treatable as bipolar disorder, mainly

because personality disorder is " ego syntonic. " That means that the individual

with personality disorder refuses to believe that there is anything wrong with

her: its everyone else who causes her problems, and her problems are never her

own fault. So generally those with pds do not even seek therapy.

Did your therapist mean " borderline pd " , perhaps?

-Annie

>

> OK... so I started therapy late last year after thinking for years that I was

either crazy or completely skewed somehow. I told her that I was there because

of childhood issues and things that are still problems with my mother. After

looking at my list of issues (and some of thee things I believed had created the

issues) my counselor said, " I believe your mother has bipolar disorder. " After

doing some reading, I got really excited! It all fit! Finally (for the first

time) some of it made " sense " - she has BP! I have had so many " a-ha " moments as

I've learned more in recent weeks.

>

> I'm already doing a fairly low contact thing with my mother, but my father and

brother are pushing me to have more. They still don't know she is BP and they

still seem to think if you " just call a little more often " " just let her come to

your house and spend more time with you " " just make time to go to lunch with

her " etc. things will get better! I'm 37 (bro is 35) and it's never worked

before - won't work now. The less contact I have, the more she tries to escalate

(has brother telling me to call her more, her " illnesses " increase/worsen, etc.)

>

> Here's the stickler... I don't know how to try to get my brother to understand

that our mom is BP. He shares MANY of her tendencies, though I don't think he is

BP but just (sadly) negatively influenced by her growing up. He is also the

" favorite " child - the one who could do no wrong (even though he doesn't work

full-time to this day and relies on the folks to pay his rent, insurance, etc.)

- another thing that is apparently fairly common to BP parents.

>

> Anyway, he IS very annoyed with all of her negativity and he also is tired of

her constant health complaints and thinks she should do things to get healthier

rather than just complaining. HOWEVER, when it comes to the passive-aggressive

manipulative stuff, he doesn't see it. He thinks she is just " lonely " or

" depressed " and just needs some more TLC and to get out of the house more. (She

has isolated herself by being so negative that she has no friends, her sisters

rarely talk to her (and live in other states so never have to see her) and she

has destroyed any/all career and volunteer opportunities.)

>

> I tried talking to my brother recently and told him I was seeing a counselor,

etc. but I did NOT come right out and say " mom is BP " because I don't want him

to get defensive. I also tried talking to my dad to say that it doesn't matter

if I call twice a day instead of once a week - it won't be enough and it won't

change things. I think my dad see this and knows this, but after being married

to her for 40+ years he is not going to rock the boat. My brother, being the

favorite, has a better shot than probably anyone else at getting her to

counseling... but I'd have to have him on board first. HOW do I do this? He

won't be a defensive as she will, but it might be close or " you're just

exaggerating " etc. because his experience was different from mine (not nearly as

bad - he was the angelic son who could really never do wrong).

>

> HELP?!?

>

[Guest guest]

I thought the same thing as Annie, regarding borderline vs bipolar.

But as far as getting family members to see the light - you can't, they

don't, he won't.

Just focus on taking care of you. Start reading up on dysfunctional

families, family dynamics and read The Family Crucible.

If you have a mentally ill family member who is untreated, you are more than

likely in a dysfunctional family. The family depends on you to stay in a

static role - the helper or the mascot or the scapegoat are common. When you

try to break out of your role, they will lash out at you and do what we call

" hoovering, " or try to suck you back into your place to keep the messed up

situation in place so that THEY don't have to change.

Just focus on you. Many of us, myself included, have left a whole family

behind us because it was a destructive situation. I personally am NC (no

contact) with an entire county in the western US where I grew up. I start to

panic just driving through. The ENTIRE town and surrounding community was

part of the dysfunctional family unit I was born into.

Expect resistance, expect attempts to to be suck you in and if you kick,

fight and pack up and walk away, you can get out intact.

On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 3:33 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> If your mother has bi-polar disorder, that is supposed to respond well to

> both talk therapy and drug therapy. Its not the same thing as borderline

> personality disorder. (Although they share the trait of mood swings.)

>

> This group's focus is on parents with borderline personality disorder,

> which unfortunately doesn't seem to be as treatable as bipolar disorder,

> mainly because personality disorder is " ego syntonic. " That means that the

> individual with personality disorder refuses to believe that there is

> anything wrong with her: its everyone else who causes her problems, and her

> problems are never her own fault. So generally those with pds do not even

> seek therapy.

>

> Did your therapist mean " borderline pd " , perhaps?

>

> -Annie

>

>

> >

> > OK... so I started therapy late last year after thinking for years that I

> was either crazy or completely skewed somehow. I told her that I was there

> because of childhood issues and things that are still problems with my

> mother. After looking at my list of issues (and some of thee things I

> believed had created the issues) my counselor said, " I believe your mother

> has bipolar disorder. " After doing some reading, I got really excited! It

> all fit! Finally (for the first time) some of it made " sense " - she has BP!

> I have had so many " a-ha " moments as I've learned more in recent weeks.

> >

> > I'm already doing a fairly low contact thing with my mother, but my

> father and brother are pushing me to have more. They still don't know she is

> BP and they still seem to think if you " just call a little more often " " just

> let her come to your house and spend more time with you " " just make time to

> go to lunch with her " etc. things will get better! I'm 37 (bro is 35) and

> it's never worked before - won't work now. The less contact I have, the more

> she tries to escalate (has brother telling me to call her more, her

> " illnesses " increase/worsen, etc.)

> >

> > Here's the stickler... I don't know how to try to get my brother to

> understand that our mom is BP. He shares MANY of her tendencies, though I

> don't think he is BP but just (sadly) negatively influenced by her growing

> up. He is also the " favorite " child - the one who could do no wrong (even

> though he doesn't work full-time to this day and relies on the folks to pay

> his rent, insurance, etc.) - another thing that is apparently fairly common

> to BP parents.

> >

> > Anyway, he IS very annoyed with all of her negativity and he also is

> tired of her constant health complaints and thinks she should do things to

> get healthier rather than just complaining. HOWEVER, when it comes to the

> passive-aggressive manipulative stuff, he doesn't see it. He thinks she is

> just " lonely " or " depressed " and just needs some more TLC and to get out of

> the house more. (She has isolated herself by being so negative that she has

> no friends, her sisters rarely talk to her (and live in other states so

> never have to see her) and she has destroyed any/all career and volunteer

> opportunities.)

> >

> > I tried talking to my brother recently and told him I was seeing a

> counselor, etc. but I did NOT come right out and say " mom is BP " because I

> don't want him to get defensive. I also tried talking to my dad to say that

> it doesn't matter if I call twice a day instead of once a week - it won't be

> enough and it won't change things. I think my dad see this and knows this,

> but after being married to her for 40+ years he is not going to rock the

> boat. My brother, being the favorite, has a better shot than probably anyone

> else at getting her to counseling... but I'd have to have him on board

> first. HOW do I do this? He won't be a defensive as she will, but it might

> be close or " you're just exaggerating " etc. because his experience was

> different from mine (not nearly as bad - he was the angelic son who could

> really never do wrong).

> >

> > HELP?!?

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bipolar and Borderline are often confusted and misdiagnosed.

I would read Stop Walking on Eggshells, if I were you. If your mom is

borderline, you won t get far into the book before you have AH HA!

moments and see her there.

Some more help and comments below, interspersed with your post.

> I'm already doing a fairly low contact thing with my mother, but my

father and brother are pushing me to have more. They still don't know

she is BP and they still seem to think if you " just call a little more

often " " just let her come to your house and spend more time with you "

" just make time to go to lunch with her " etc. things will get better! >

Here's the stickler... I don't know how to try to get my brother to

understand that our mom is BP.

Sad truth, you can t. No one can make someone else open thier eyes

about a parent s mental illness. If brother was the " golden child "

as your mom " split " about her kids, it is even less likely he will

see that craziness that worked out well for him was still craziness.

FOO ( family of origen) that is caught up in the " If only you would do

XYZ , poor old mom would be all better, " are acting as flying monkeys.

( since you are new , From wizard of Oz, the FM went out to do the

bidding of the witch, and force Dorothy to come back to the witch so she

could work her will on Dorothy.

Trust me, nothing you can do will make mom all better.

He shares MANY of her tendencies, though I don't think he is BP but

just (sadly) negatively influenced by her growing up. He is also the

" favorite " child - the one who could do no wrong (even though he doesn't

work full-time to this day and relies on the folks to pay his rent,

insurance, etc.) - another thing that is apparently fairly common to BP

parents.

He may or may not be BPD himself. He is , sadly , emotionally crippled

by his nada. ( BP mom, " Not a mother, " nada.) You can t change him,

or her. You can only change yourself.

> Anyway, he IS very annoyed with all of her negativity and he also is

tired of her constant health complaints and thinks she should do things

to get healthier rather than just complaining. HOWEVER, when it comes to

the passive-aggressive manipulative stuff, he doesn't see it. He thinks

she is just " lonely " or " depressed " and just needs some more TLC and to

get out of the house more. (She has isolated herself by being so

negative that she has no friends, her sisters rarely talk to her (and

live in other states so never have to see her) and she has destroyed

any/all career and volunteer opportunities.)

Your mom does sound like a classic Waif/Hermit Borderline. There is

nothing you can do about it. You can choose to become healthy yourself,

but she

WILL

NOT

CHANGE

Really. My nada had an aneurysm which needed monitoring and at some

point, surgery. Long story short, she played her games with the Dr and

me and it, till one night 2 years ago, it killed her. You can t make

her be healthy. I m very sorry.

> I tried talking to my brother recently and told him I was seeing a

counselor, etc. but I did NOT come right out and say " mom is BP " because

I don't want him to get defensive. I also tried talking to my dad to say

that it doesn't matter if I call twice a day instead of once a week - it

won't be enough and it won't change things. I think my dad see this and

knows this, but after being married to her for 40+ years he is not going

to rock the boat. My brother, being the favorite, has a better shot than

probably anyone else at getting her to counseling... but I'd have to

have him on board first. HOW do I do this? He won't be a defensive as

she will, but it might be close or " you're just exaggerating " etc.

because his experience was different from mine (not nearly as bad - he

was the angelic son who could really never do wrong).

You might possibly help him see the light by letting him read SWOE.

And it equally might send him running to say , Mommy mommy , sister

thinks you have BPD.

The focus is YOU. You can set boundaries, you can refuse to be

manipulated, you can tell Dad and brother , I have decided what to do

about mom. If YOU keep pressing me, I ll cut off contact with you as

well. I will do whatever I must for me to get healthy.

If YOU want mom to have more TLC , and are convinced that will make her

all better, then YOU give it to her. And let me know how it works out.

But I AM DONE.

Now, it is about me getting healthy.

Life as a KO of BP will tell you that is wrong and selfish, that you

should sacrifice yourself totally to take care of her.

That voice inside you is wrong. You ve started to see. You ve started

to heal.

Be brave. Beleive in your worth. Do what it takes.

Heal.

Doug

>

> HELP?!?

>

[Guest guest]

Annie - Did I saw " bipolar? " Sorry! I meant " Borderline Personality Disorder. " I

have a newborn and he just finished a growth spurt (a.k.a. nursing around the

clock for a week!) so I'm super sleep deprived at the moment! :-)

Yes - mom is a NADA and I've had " a-ha moment " after a-ha moment while reading

about borderline personality disorder! She is a classic case! So glad to finally

know what the heck is going on with her and that I'm not crazy (stories that

change from one day to next, one day she is best friends with someone and the

next she isn't speaking to that person, etc.!) I haven't read the borderline

mother book yet (trying to get a copy)... read some stuff online though and

think my mom is also narcissistic (sp?).

> >

> > OK... so I started therapy late last year after thinking for years that I

was either crazy or completely skewed somehow. I told her that I was there

because of childhood issues and things that are still problems with my mother.

After looking at my list of issues (and some of thee things I believed had

created the issues) my counselor said, " I believe your mother has bipolar

disorder. " After doing some reading, I got really excited! It all fit! Finally

(for the first time) some of it made " sense " - she has BP! I have had so many

" a-ha " moments as I've learned more in recent weeks.

> >

> > I'm already doing a fairly low contact thing with my mother, but my father

and brother are pushing me to have more. They still don't know she is BP and

they still seem to think if you " just call a little more often " " just let her

come to your house and spend more time with you " " just make time to go to lunch

with her " etc. things will get better! I'm 37 (bro is 35) and it's never worked

before - won't work now. The less contact I have, the more she tries to escalate

(has brother telling me to call her more, her " illnesses " increase/worsen, etc.)

> >

> > Here's the stickler... I don't know how to try to get my brother to

understand that our mom is BP. He shares MANY of her tendencies, though I don't

think he is BP but just (sadly) negatively influenced by her growing up. He is

also the " favorite " child - the one who could do no wrong (even though he

doesn't work full-time to this day and relies on the folks to pay his rent,

insurance, etc.) - another thing that is apparently fairly common to BP parents.

> >

> > Anyway, he IS very annoyed with all of her negativity and he also is tired

of her constant health complaints and thinks she should do things to get

healthier rather than just complaining. HOWEVER, when it comes to the

passive-aggressive manipulative stuff, he doesn't see it. He thinks she is just

" lonely " or " depressed " and just needs some more TLC and to get out of the house

more. (She has isolated herself by being so negative that she has no friends,

her sisters rarely talk to her (and live in other states so never have to see

her) and she has destroyed any/all career and volunteer opportunities.)

> >

> > I tried talking to my brother recently and told him I was seeing a

counselor, etc. but I did NOT come right out and say " mom is BP " because I don't

want him to get defensive. I also tried talking to my dad to say that it doesn't

matter if I call twice a day instead of once a week - it won't be enough and it

won't change things. I think my dad see this and knows this, but after being

married to her for 40+ years he is not going to rock the boat. My brother, being

the favorite, has a better shot than probably anyone else at getting her to

counseling... but I'd have to have him on board first. HOW do I do this? He

won't be a defensive as she will, but it might be close or " you're just

exaggerating " etc. because his experience was different from mine (not nearly as

bad - he was the angelic son who could really never do wrong).

> >

> > HELP?!?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Congrats on your new arrival!

So you have a nada; I'm so sorry. I know several people with biploar disorder

and they are just fine when they stay on their meds. I wish it were that way

with personality disorder.

I'm glad that you're researching the good reading material that's out there;

that's something I usually recommend is to get as educated as possible about the

Cluster B personality disorders, as they seem to share some traits. I believe

my mother is a " Walking Cluster B " who also has some obsessive-compulsive pd

traits as well. It helps us take their behaviors less personally if we can

accept that this is a genuine, serious mental illness and the mistreatment we

endure from them is not our fault.

What helps is to gradually get used to these ideas:

*You didn't make your mother the way she is, and you can't fix her.

*You deserve to have your own separate, independent, self-actualized,

responsible, joyful adult life. If your mother were mentally healthy, she would

want that for you, too.

*You are not responsible for your mother's feelings. Any guilt or

responsibility you carry for her feelings / " making her happy " is MISplaced and

INappropriate.

*If your mother ( " nada " ) is abusive to you, whether its emotionally abusive,

physically abusive, or financially abusive; if she is draining you dry,

demanding all your free time, chronically critical, demanding, invasive and

intrusive, or even actively trying to harm you, your reputation, etc., you have

the right to protect yourself from abuse even if its coming from your own

mother/father.

*Setting boundaries or rules for yourself RE what behaviors from your nada you

will and will not tolerate does NOT make you a bad person or a bad daughter.

Enforcing consequences for boundary violation does NOT make you a bad person or

a bad daughter.

*You not only have the right, you have the obligation to protect your own child

from mistreatment from your mother, which includes (among other things) your

mother disrespecting you as a human being and a parent in your own right, and

undermining your parental authority in front of your child.

*You have the right to figure out what kind of solution will work best for you,

and you're really the only one who can determine what that is. Some of us can

manage Low Contact with boundaries in place, and others of us need to go No

Contact either temporarily or permanently. Its all about what works for you,

what suits your needs best.

Welcome, and I hope that helps!

-Annie

>

> Annie - Did I saw " bipolar? " Sorry! I meant " Borderline Personality Disorder. "

I have a newborn and he just finished a growth spurt (a.k.a. nursing around the

clock for a week!) so I'm super sleep deprived at the moment! :-)

>

> Yes - mom is a NADA and I've had " a-ha moment " after a-ha moment while reading

about borderline personality disorder! She is a classic case! So glad to finally

know what the heck is going on with her and that I'm not crazy (stories that

change from one day to next, one day she is best friends with someone and the

next she isn't speaking to that person, etc.!) I haven't read the borderline

mother book yet (trying to get a copy)... read some stuff online though and

think my mom is also narcissistic (sp?).

>