Guest guest Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Hi everyone. I haven't commented for a while but I still read often. I was speaking with a friend who lost her very loving mother to cancer 7 years ago. She said she was jealous of people with living mothers. I told her, extremely respectfully, that not all mothers are as loving as her mother was -- and wishing for a loving one is painful also. It's hard to have a living mother who hasn't been there for you. And you can't just explain that to people. It's still kind of something that nobody will understand unless you've had a borderline mom. So, she got to explain herself, and said she would rather have a living mother even if she were a borderline, abusive mother...rather than a deceased loving mother. I couldn't say another word. And yes, my mom still uses health issues to manipulate...she did it again just today. This subject twists my heart. Amy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Amy, I don't think people with a " normal " mother can understand, and I get that. Good for you for trying, at least, to help your friend see how blessed she was to have a wonderful mother, even for a little while. Someone posted a while back about how painful it was for her to grieve the mother she didn't have. I think I'm over it on most days, but I feel it on days when I'm doubting myself, when I'm hating myself, when I think I don't deserve something good. Because my mother was the kind of mother who did stuff for you: cooked phenomenally well, cleaned everything to a shine, checked your homework, etc. But when it came to a mom who believed in me (or really, in anyone), that didn't happen. She would ask, " are you sure you can do what they want you to do??? " when I would go on job interviews. " So, does his family really like you?? " when I got engaged. Stuff like that. Stupid stuff. But hurtful. The little waif. Just got off the phone with her before. Her friend's husband died. I haaaaaaaaaaaate when someone she knows dies, b/c she goes for about a week or so dying herself. Today, she feels weak. I reminded her she hasn't eaten in about 2 days b/c she's afraid of getting painful gas/digestion. She needs a ride to the wake. I can't do it. she gets harsh and mean. " I'll see who the hell will be able to take me. Crap. This life sucks. " If your friend could peek in on this board, I think she'd change her mind. Fiona > > Hi everyone. I haven't commented for a while but I still read often. > > > I was speaking with a friend who lost her very loving mother to cancer 7 years ago. She said she was jealous of people with living mothers. I told her, extremely respectfully, that not all mothers are as loving as her mother was -- and wishing for a loving one is painful also. > > > It's hard to have a living mother who hasn't been there for you. And you can't just explain that to people. It's still kind of something that nobody will understand unless you've had a borderline mom. > > > So, she got to explain herself, and said she would rather have a living mother even if she were a borderline, abusive mother...rather than a deceased loving mother. > > > I couldn't say another word. > > > And yes, my mom still uses health issues to manipulate...she did it again just today. > > > This subject twists my heart. > > > Amy > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 I couldn't agree with you more. If I could just quit wanting a mother I'd be fine. But I can't, and if I try to explain my situation to some people, they say " But you *have* a mother... " It's like being really thirsty with a big canteen of poisoned water, and when you ask passersby for a drink they say " But you *have* water. " They've never experienced the poison. And it's really hard to will yourself not to be thirsty. > > Hi everyone. I haven't commented for a while but I still read often. > > > I was speaking with a friend who lost her very loving mother to cancer 7 years ago. She said she was jealous of people with living mothers. I told her, extremely respectfully, that not all mothers are as loving as her mother was -- and wishing for a loving one is painful also. > > > It's hard to have a living mother who hasn't been there for you. And you can't just explain that to people. It's still kind of something that nobody will understand unless you've had a borderline mom. > > > So, she got to explain herself, and said she would rather have a living mother even if she were a borderline, abusive mother...rather than a deceased loving mother. > > > I couldn't say another word. > > > And yes, my mom still uses health issues to manipulate...she did it again just today. > > > This subject twists my heart. > > > Amy > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Hi I'm fortunate in that I have some friends who are not of the 'but she's your MOTHER' type. They are supportive that I have had to go LC with nada for sake of my sanity. But when I speak about situation with nada, I can see the look in their face that they just don't get it. Nav > > I couldn't agree with you more. If I could just quit wanting a mother I'd be fine. But I can't, and if I try to explain my situation to some people, they say " But you *have* a mother... " It's like being really thirsty with a big canteen of poisoned water, and when you ask passersby for a drink they say " But you *have* water. " They've never experienced the poison. And it's really hard to will yourself not to be thirsty. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 I really like your " being thirsty/poison water " analogy, by the way. It really resonates with me. -Annie > > > > Hi everyone. I haven't commented for a while but I still read often. > > > > > > I was speaking with a friend who lost her very loving mother to cancer 7 years ago. She said she was jealous of people with living mothers. I told her, extremely respectfully, that not all mothers are as loving as her mother was -- and wishing for a loving one is painful also. > > > > > > It's hard to have a living mother who hasn't been there for you. And you can't just explain that to people. It's still kind of something that nobody will understand unless you've had a borderline mom. > > > > > > So, she got to explain herself, and said she would rather have a living mother even if she were a borderline, abusive mother...rather than a deceased loving mother. > > > > > > I couldn't say another word. > > > > > > And yes, my mom still uses health issues to manipulate...she did it again just today. > > > > > > This subject twists my heart. > > > > > > Amy > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 " I couldn't agree with you more. If I could just quit wanting a mother I'd be fine. But I can't, and if I try to explain my situation to some people, they say " But you *have* a mother... " It's like being really thirsty with a big canteen of poisoned water, and when you ask passersby for a drink they say " But you *have* water. " They've never experienced the poison. And it's really hard to will yourself not to be thirsty. " WOW. That exactly describes this feeling. I have had the biggest canteen of poisoned water for so long...and my mother also has not eaten solid food for 2 days because she ate some grainy stuff and sent herself to the emergency room for the " worst stomach pains " . I severely miss having a supportive mom. I told my kids that out of the 10 years that I was an amateur and professional figure skater with my partner...my mom came to see me ZERO times. I watch everything my 5 kids do...I spread myself thin making it to almost every recital, game, event, match...etc that i can. I would never abandon them because of what they choose, who they choose, how early they perform or how late, how far away...or even if it inconveniences me a ton. I am there for my kids...cheering them on all the way. They are good people...and I appreciate them tremendously. I, along with you, have been unlucky in the unconditional loving mother category. I am much better with it after all these years, but I know I will never fully understand this all, and I will never stop wishing I had a mom who supported me in a way that meant something to me. Amy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Nothing makes me feel so lonely or sad than when I'm confronted with my TRUE loss. A mother that is " dead " because she never really existed. I'm so sorry. You did the right thing, though. Trying to make a point would have only hurt her and made you feel even more invisible. Usually, I just let these things go right on by me--something about " my mother is a nada " that makes people jump up and say something hurtful. How could they possibly understand? Which, of course, always makes me feel worse! Hang in-- > > Hi everyone. I haven't commented for a while but I still read often. > > > I was speaking with a friend who lost her very loving mother to cancer 7 years ago. She said she was jealous of people with living mothers. I told her, extremely respectfully, that not all mothers are as loving as her mother was -- and wishing for a loving one is painful also. > > > It's hard to have a living mother who hasn't been there for you. And you can't just explain that to people. It's still kind of something that nobody will understand unless you've had a borderline mom. > > > So, she got to explain herself, and said she would rather have a living mother even if she were a borderline, abusive mother...rather than a deceased loving mother. > > > I couldn't say another word. > > > And yes, my mom still uses health issues to manipulate...she did it again just today. > > > This subject twists my heart. > > > Amy > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 I think the closest that most people can come to understanding that a person might not want to have contact with a parent, is when they hear the words " My father raped me repeatedly when I was growing up, so no, I don't want him to be part of my life now. " Then, other people " get it. " They understand that your parent who was supposed to protect you and care for you, instead used and abused you in a horrible way. Actually, in a criminal way. I think mothers are cut a great deal of slack in this regard due to thousands of years of physical and cultural evolution. Human beings are hard-wired to bond with each other, particularly mothers and children. So much so that the very concept of motherhood has acquired a kind of sacred aura. I believe that this " motherhood is sacred " concept translates as a active refusal to consider that some mothers are actually insane, and severely toxic and destructive to their own children. The saintly, self-sacrificing Good Mother does not suck her own children dry out of her own fear of abandonment, or deliberately, systematically destroy her child's sense of self-worth out of resentment, jealousy, or narcissistic injury. Other people can't really conceive that its as though some of us were raised by a spoiled, self-absorbed, enraged, jealous three-year-old who views her own child as her possession, and possibly when the child grows into a young woman, her rival. This sounds like the stuff of fairy tales to most people, the ones who had mentally healthy mothers. In any case, in the same way that I don't know what its like to grow up in a country at war, where just going to the grocery store can get you or your friends or your family randomly blown up into quivering chunks of meat by a truck bomb, most people can't comprehend the kind of damage that growing up with a personality disordered mother does to us. So in a way, I'm glad other people don't understand it. -Annie > > Nothing makes me feel so lonely or sad than when I'm confronted with my TRUE loss. A mother that is " dead " because she never really existed. > > I'm so sorry. You did the right thing, though. Trying to make a point would have only hurt her and made you feel even more invisible. > > Usually, I just let these things go right on by me--something about " my mother is a nada " that makes people jump up and say something hurtful. How could they possibly understand? > > Which, of course, always makes me feel worse! > > Hang in-- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 I was hanging out with my aunt this weekend and the subject of the past came up. I said something along the lines of " my mother was a crazy b**ch " . My aunt told me that my mother was always nice to her and repeated this a couple of times. Then I was told to " just let it go " repeatedly even though I wasn't even discussing it any further. Then I was told that my problem is that I let people get to me this was brought up because I mentioned that I had gotten into an argument with my uncle. She said it was my fault he picked on me because he knew he could get a reaction out of me. (This uncle knows I don't speak to my father and that it's a sore spot so he would ask me over and over every event I saw him at " wheres your father? " Finally one day I told him he was an **sshole. He would've punched me had there not been people around. But guess what? Now he doesn't ask me where my father is. He says hello and keeps his distance.) Soooooooooo since I have heard these things about a zillion times in my life I nodded and smiled waiting for the ugly ugly cloud to pass. Just kept telling myself, " shestryingtohelpmeshestryingtohelpme " . I believe my aunt is telling me to do what she does which keeps her locked in her trauma. Though I care for her she married an alcoholic manchild who's emotionally unavailable and she mothers him. I think the whole " let it go " thing sounds great but it's not real. Having heartless parents is a part of who I am and I accept that and I would really like to be happy anyway. On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 10:17 PM, anuria67854 wrote: > > > I think the closest that most people can come to understanding that a > person might not want to have contact with a parent, is when they hear the > words " My father raped me repeatedly when I was growing up, so no, I don't > want him to be part of my life now. " > > Then, other people " get it. " They understand that your parent who was > supposed to protect you and care for you, instead used and abused you in a > horrible way. Actually, in a criminal way. > > I think mothers are cut a great deal of slack in this regard due to > thousands of years of physical and cultural evolution. Human beings are > hard-wired to bond with each other, particularly mothers and children. So > much so that the very concept of motherhood has acquired a kind of sacred > aura. > > I believe that this " motherhood is sacred " concept translates as a active > refusal to consider that some mothers are actually insane, and severely > toxic and destructive to their own children. > > The saintly, self-sacrificing Good Mother does not suck her own children > dry out of her own fear of abandonment, or deliberately, systematically > destroy her child's sense of self-worth out of resentment, jealousy, or > narcissistic injury. Other people can't really conceive that its as though > some of us were raised by a spoiled, self-absorbed, enraged, jealous > three-year-old who views her own child as her possession, and possibly when > the child grows into a young woman, her rival. > > This sounds like the stuff of fairy tales to most people, the ones who had > mentally healthy mothers. > > In any case, in the same way that I don't know what its like to grow up in > a country at war, where just going to the grocery store can get you or your > friends or your family randomly blown up into quivering chunks of meat by a > truck bomb, most people can't comprehend the kind of damage that growing up > with a personality disordered mother does to us. > > So in a way, I'm glad other people don't understand it. > > -Annie > > > > > > Nothing makes me feel so lonely or sad than when I'm confronted with my > TRUE loss. A mother that is " dead " because she never really existed. > > > > I'm so sorry. You did the right thing, though. Trying to make a point > would have only hurt her and made you feel even more invisible. > > > > Usually, I just let these things go right on by me--something about " my > mother is a nada " that makes people jump up and say something hurtful. How > could they possibly understand? > > > > Which, of course, always makes me feel worse! > > > > Hang in-- > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 I always feel weird when I read threads like this one. Not that you guys are weird for feeling this way. This is the *normal* feeling! Instead, all my feelings about mother and family and all that are just gone. Just dead. I really don't want any more family connections at all. Just nothing. I used to feel this really desperate feeling about nada (because she was so good at LOOKING like she could get better), like, we have to SAVE her! We have to SAVE her! And then I realized that this is just a person who will never, can never, get better. And that was kind of it. I really want to be alone in the world, and have no more connection to blood family whatsoever. *This* is weird. --. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 annie, perfect description of how i feel. i have learned so much about our parents thru therapy, reading, blogs... the one thing i can't teach my heart is how to feel like a whole, grounded, internally strong person when my roots come from people i am ashamed of and humiliated by. it's so hard to be resilient sometimes. amy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Annie - sometimes I think most people have nadas, we are just the lucky few who realized it. Am I just. . . coping. . . or is this true? I'm surrounded by people who are action-packed with intergenerational issues. > > > annie, > perfect description of how i feel. > i have learned so much about our parents thru therapy, reading, blogs... > the one thing i can't teach my heart is how to feel like a whole, grounded, > internally strong person when my roots come from people i am ashamed of and > humiliated by. > it's so hard to be resilient sometimes. > amy > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 My condolences for everyone's grief on this thread. I know how very difficult it is. For some reason, this Spring I am really grieving my FOO. It may be because I have now fully moved away from my home state--I have no apartment there at all, no place to visit there, a situation that's only been so for about two months. But also, in my particular situation I've had to cut off contact with the ENTIRE foo. Like some others on the board, I have a violent ex-spouse, and a nada who refuses to see it and prides herself on being 'attractive' to him. My 'claiming' he is dangerous is a perfect opportunity for her to show that she's the one he really 'loves' and desires (even though we are divorced!) It is terrifying and paralyzing, and I haven't been anywhere near home for years now. Another thing is that my own mother was pervasively abusive in an intimate way, so that just the thought of her voice or a picture of her is a PTSD trigger for me of intimate abuse. And though I've tried to progress in my healing, I've not yet been able to see that changing at all. So far other family members have attempted triangulation--they haven't pressured me to see *her* specifically, but they have pressured me to show up at family events (at which she would be present, of course), and noone has ever given even the slightest indication that I could trust them to respect or believe my opinion and protect me physically from my ex-husband or emotionally from nada. And because of that I've chosen, to remain functional in my own life and career, to be 100% cut off from all of them, with only a few emails and texts from sisters and aunts now and then. But it is painful. It is not any LESS painful than grief when it's NOT by choice. People don't get that. I think it is more painful. It's like writer manque says--you have to sit there looking at the poison water and choosing, 100% of the time, not to touch it. It is excruciating. And although I am blessed with angelic friends, I have absolutely no family of my own, nor any SO at the moment. I feel like I am dying of grief, solitude and lonliness. It is hitting me extremely hard this Spring. So yes. The grief is not acknowledged as it should be; the grief is excruciating, and it is not a 'choice', and it is certainly not less painful than a real parent, deceased. --Charlie > > annie, > perfect description of how i feel. > i have learned so much about our parents thru therapy, reading, blogs... > the one thing i can't teach my heart is how to feel like a whole, grounded, internally strong person when my roots come from people i am ashamed of and humiliated by. > it's so hard to be resilient sometimes. > amy > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 I think you already know the answer to this one. Focusing on our own growing awareness of and acceptance of our own childhood pain and foo dysfunction can make us more aware of the pain and suffering (and emotional turmoil) going on around us. Its like when you're alone and have no special someone in your life, it seems to you that the world around you consists only of happy couples. Or if you are childless and craving to have a child, its as though all you can see around you are pregnant women or families with babies. Its just that your attention is focused on this thing now, so that is what draws your attention when you see it in the environment. The truth is that most people are somewhere within the normal range of mentally healthy, sliding around depending on the current circumstances, but able to manage well enough. Most people had relatively OK childhoods. It only seems to you right now like you are surrounded by dysfunction because you are taking a close, hard look at the dysfunction in your family of origin. My suggestion (which may or may not resonate with you) is to make sure that at least part of each day you focus on something entirely different, that is entirely positive; something that brings you joy and allows you to give joy to others. I hope that helps. -Annie > > Annie - sometimes I think most people have nadas, we are just the lucky few > who realized it. > Am I just. . . coping. . . or is this true? I'm surrounded by people who are > action-packed with intergenerational issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Aaaah thank you annie On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 9:19 AM, anuria67854 wrote: > > > I think you already know the answer to this one. Focusing on our own > growing awareness of and acceptance of our own childhood pain and foo > dysfunction can make us more aware of the pain and suffering (and emotional > turmoil) going on around us. > > Its like when you're alone and have no special someone in your life, it > seems to you that the world around you consists only of happy couples. Or if > you are childless and craving to have a child, its as though all you can see > around you are pregnant women or families with babies. > > Its just that your attention is focused on this thing now, so that is what > draws your attention when you see it in the environment. > > The truth is that most people are somewhere within the normal range of > mentally healthy, sliding around depending on the current circumstances, but > able to manage well enough. Most people had relatively OK childhoods. It > only seems to you right now like you are surrounded by dysfunction because > you are taking a close, hard look at the dysfunction in your family of > origin. > > My suggestion (which may or may not resonate with you) is to make sure that > at least part of each day you focus on something entirely different, that is > entirely positive; something that brings you joy and allows you to give joy > to others. > > I hope that helps. > > -Annie > > > > > > > Annie - sometimes I think most people have nadas, we are just the lucky > few > > who realized it. > > Am I just. . . coping. . . or is this true? I'm surrounded by people who > are > > action-packed with intergenerational issues. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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