Feelings of guilt and what if I'm wrong...

[Guest guest]

OK... so new here and in Dec. my therapist said " I think your mother has

borderline personality. " I started reading up on this illness and SO MUCH of it

fits and explains many things over the years (like being best friends with

someone one day and the next she hated them, etc., etc.)! Recently she had

another health scare (she constantly has health issues) and I'm getting the " if

you'd just be nicer/more compassionate/etc. " from the bro and dad. And, of

course, the NADA is being nice - probably because I have yet to even ask about

her health issue and have only talked to her once in the 10 days since.

Anyway, I am starting to feel that familiar guilt and now doubt. What if she

isn't really borderline and really IS a nice woman with just depression issues.

Then I flash back to all the crazy things (literally) and the lack of being

there for me and the passive-aggressive sh** and the guilt trips and the

flip-flopping feelings/rules/etc. that were always part of the " norm " in her

world, etc. and I think " of course she is BP - don't let her be nice and suck

you in again! Stand your ground! "

Any of you feel this way? Is this normal? Ugh - I'm so sick of it and just.

totally. emotionally. exhausted. (sigh)

How do I KNOW it really is BP and I'm really NOT just being a hard-hearted b**ch

that I'm so often accused of being?

- MJ

[Guest guest]

I think its BP and not you.

----------

Please excuse any typos or terseness, this message was sent from a mobile

device.

Feelings of guilt and " what if I'm wrong... "

OK... so new here and in Dec. my therapist said " I think your mother has

borderline personality. " I started reading up on this illness and SO MUCH of it

fits and explains many things over the years (like being best friends with

someone one day and the next she hated them, etc., etc.)! Recently she had

another health scare (she constantly has health issues) and I'm getting the " if

you'd just be nicer/more compassionate/etc. " from the bro and dad. And, of

course, the NADA is being nice - probably because I have yet to even ask about

her health issue and have only talked to her once in the 10 days since.

Anyway, I am starting to feel that familiar guilt and now doubt. What if she

isn't really borderline and really IS a nice woman with just depression issues.

Then I flash back to all the crazy things (literally) and the lack of being

there for me and the passive-aggressive sh** and the guilt trips and the

flip-flopping feelings/rules/etc. that were always part of the " norm " in her

world, etc. and I think " of course she is BP - don't let her be nice and suck

you in again! Stand your ground! "

Any of you feel this way? Is this normal? Ugh - I'm so sick of it and just.

totally. emotionally. exhausted. (sigh)

How do I KNOW it really is BP and I'm really NOT just being a hard-hearted b**ch

that I'm so often accused of being?

- MJ

[Guest guest]

Its really hard when nobody in your family of origin (foo) is validating your

perceptions and feelings: not acknowledging that you are being abused, or

minimizing it. If the rest of the foo is saying to you, " just be nicer/more

compassionate " or " you're too sensitive " , etc., then that is very invalidating.

It *does* start to make you doubt your own perceptions, it *is* crazy-making.

Something that helped me was starting to keep a journal or log of my phone

conversations with my nada. Just brief notes, nothing elaborate, but as they

accumulated it became clear to me that pretty much every time I spoke with my

mother ( " nada " ) I felt depressed afterward because she would say indirectly mean

things to me. Sort of passive-aggressive cruelties. And or she'd just talk at

me. I began to realize that I dreaded the phone ringing; I had anxiety about

even the thought of speaking with her.

Then I started writing a " retro diary " . I had a pretty vivid recall of a lot of

incidents, but sometimes a new memory would pop up. Whenever one of these

childhood memories would arise, as soon as I could I'd jot it down, not worrying

about putting it in any kind of order, just getting them down on paper.

It became very clear to me after recording a bunch of these memories that I had

had a pretty traumatic, abusive and scary childhood relationship with my nada,

so much so that I became enmeshed with her and dad in a Stockholm Syndrome kind

of way.

See, one abusive incident, or just a couple of abusive incidents can be

explained away and rationalized, because everyone has a bad day now and then.

Everyone is human, nobody is perfect. What can't be explained away so easily is

a *pattern* of negative, destructive, toxic behavior. When they are cyclical

behavior patterns, or frequent and intense behaviors, THAT is significant. And

when the pattern shows a lot of physical and emotional battering of a child,

then, that is highly significant.

So if you start journaling or keeping a diary, you will probably start to see

patterns of behavior develop. Note the details, keep your journal faithfully,

and that way you will be able to validate your own perceptions and your reality.

You will be your own eye-witness and I bet your feelings of guilt and self-doubt

will begin to evaporate.

" By thunder, this really DID happen! And it happened last month too, and at

this same time last year too. " That sort of thing.

I find keeping a journal very empowering!

-Annie

>

> OK... so new here and in Dec. my therapist said " I think your mother has

borderline personality. " I started reading up on this illness and SO MUCH of it

fits and explains many things over the years (like being best friends with

someone one day and the next she hated them, etc., etc.)! Recently she had

another health scare (she constantly has health issues) and I'm getting the " if

you'd just be nicer/more compassionate/etc. " from the bro and dad. And, of

course, the NADA is being nice - probably because I have yet to even ask about

her health issue and have only talked to her once in the 10 days since.

>

> Anyway, I am starting to feel that familiar guilt and now doubt. What if she

isn't really borderline and really IS a nice woman with just depression issues.

Then I flash back to all the crazy things (literally) and the lack of being

there for me and the passive-aggressive sh** and the guilt trips and the

flip-flopping feelings/rules/etc. that were always part of the " norm " in her

world, etc. and I think " of course she is BP - don't let her be nice and suck

you in again! Stand your ground! "

>

> Any of you feel this way? Is this normal? Ugh - I'm so sick of it and just.

totally. emotionally. exhausted. (sigh)

>

> How do I KNOW it really is BP and I'm really NOT just being a hard-hearted

b**ch that I'm so often accused of being?

>

> - MJ

>

[Guest guest]

Annie -

Thanks so much! You make a great point about the PATTERNS versus a few incidents

that can be explained away. I have a friend who used to do social work and I

discussed this whole thing with him the other day and he said, " remember that

your mom would be classified as high-functioning " (even has a PhD). She is VERY

good at manipulation, guilt and rationalizing things as well as turning

tables... until/unless she gets really angry and then the 5-year-old having a

temper tantrum comes out. Very few people get to see the tantrum child side,

though!

I have done the " random recall of events " list for the therapist and was amazed

at all the thing I remembered once the flood gates opened! I'll try to start

keeping track (journal or log) now so that I don't get sucked in to the " poor

ol' mama " game. After all, it has had the same ending for 37 years now!

Thanks again for all the great responses and advice! :-)

- MJ

> >

> > OK... so new here and in Dec. my therapist said " I think your mother has

borderline personality. " I started reading up on this illness and SO MUCH of it

fits and explains many things over the years (like being best friends with

someone one day and the next she hated them, etc., etc.)! Recently she had

another health scare (she constantly has health issues) and I'm getting the " if

you'd just be nicer/more compassionate/etc. " from the bro and dad. And, of

course, the NADA is being nice - probably because I have yet to even ask about

her health issue and have only talked to her once in the 10 days since.

> >

> > Anyway, I am starting to feel that familiar guilt and now doubt. What if she

isn't really borderline and really IS a nice woman with just depression issues.

Then I flash back to all the crazy things (literally) and the lack of being

there for me and the passive-aggressive sh** and the guilt trips and the

flip-flopping feelings/rules/etc. that were always part of the " norm " in her

world, etc. and I think " of course she is BP - don't let her be nice and suck

you in again! Stand your ground! "

> >

> > Any of you feel this way? Is this normal? Ugh - I'm so sick of it and just.

totally. emotionally. exhausted. (sigh)

> >

> > How do I KNOW it really is BP and I'm really NOT just being a hard-hearted

b**ch that I'm so often accused of being?

> >

> > - MJ

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My mom's high functioning too, with the angry 5 year old living inside that she

brings out only for us special few, so I can totally relate to the feeling that

you are going crazy. The guilt they heap upon us doesn't help either.

Speaking of guilt, I think there should be a site for Jewish children of BP's.

Our parents are specially trained in guilt. LOL

> Annie -

>

> Thanks so much! You make a great point about the PATTERNS versus a few

incidents that can be explained away. I have a friend who used to do social work

and I discussed this whole thing with him the other day and he said, " remember

that your mom would be classified as high-functioning " (even has a PhD). She is

VERY good at manipulation, guilt and rationalizing things as well as turning

tables... until/unless she gets really angry and then the 5-year-old having a

temper tantrum comes out. Very few people get to see the tantrum child side,

though!

>

> I have done the " random recall of events " list for the therapist and was

amazed at all the thing I remembered once the flood gates opened! I'll try to

start keeping track (journal or log) now so that I don't get sucked in to the

" poor ol' mama " game. After all, it has had the same ending for 37 years now!

>

> Thanks again for all the great responses and advice! :-)

> - MJ

>

>

> > >

> > > OK... so new here and in Dec. my therapist said " I think your mother has

borderline personality. " I started reading up on this illness and SO MUCH of it

fits and explains many things over the years (like being best friends with

someone one day and the next she hated them, etc., etc.)! Recently she had

another health scare (she constantly has health issues) and I'm getting the " if

you'd just be nicer/more compassionate/etc. " from the bro and dad. And, of

course, the NADA is being nice - probably because I have yet to even ask about

her health issue and have only talked to her once in the 10 days since.

> > >

> > > Anyway, I am starting to feel that familiar guilt and now doubt. What if

she isn't really borderline and really IS a nice woman with just depression

issues. Then I flash back to all the crazy things (literally) and the lack of

being there for me and the passive-aggressive sh** and the guilt trips and the

flip-flopping feelings/rules/etc. that were always part of the " norm " in her

world, etc. and I think " of course she is BP - don't let her be nice and suck

you in again! Stand your ground! "

> > >

> > > Any of you feel this way? Is this normal? Ugh - I'm so sick of it and

just. totally. emotionally. exhausted. (sigh)

> > >

> > > How do I KNOW it really is BP and I'm really NOT just being a hard-hearted

b**ch that I'm so often accused of being?

> > >

> > > - MJ

> > >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Take a deep breath. Now repeat after me. Oh Bullshit!

You know she s sick. You ve known it for years. But she has always

manipulated you into thinking it was your fault, that there was

something you should be doing to fix her. It was, of course , up to you

to calm her, to clean up her messes, to fix her broken relationships.

We call this FOG . ( Fear Obligation Guilt. ) It is the way our nada s

( BP Moms) try to squeeze us through the blender of their disease into

a soup for them to consume.

Hey, I like that.

Anyway, it is not your fault. That ephipany you felt when you began to

read about BPD and say over and over and OVER Oh, my God! That is my

mom! That is ME! That is what I ve lived with all my life, was real.

She is NOT a sweet, ok lady, who would be fine if you were just nice to

her. You are not an evil , uncaring daughter because you don t meet her

needs. Meeting her needs is not your job. Whoever has the job is in

trouble, because there is not enough emotional support in the world for

the Hoover vacuum cleaner that is her black hole of emotional need.

It is not your fault. She is not just depressed. Depression makes you

sad, and withdrawn, and perhaps, suicidal. It does not make you mean

and manipulative. Depression is part of BPD, but I have been depressed.

Many of us have. If anything, we become mean and hard to ourselves, not

to everyone else.

Yes, splitting, everyone is either a hero or a villian, blaming everyone

else for her issues, these are all BP traits.

Congratulations of seeing it. Now , if you choose, you can heal from

the damage of a BP mom. As for your FOO ( family of origen, ) when they

say, If only YOU would be nicer...the response is " If that is the

answer, then YOU do it. Let me know how it works out. "

As for being a cold hearted bitch, you will have to develop a real sense

of yourself, and grow a spine and a big brass set of............well

whatever. You get the gist. She has manipulated your life to make

you an extension of her, a conduit for her needs, for many years.

You can t change her. You can t stop her histrionics about health

scares, or hypochondriac mountains over real life molehills. You can

reclaim your life.

You might find, as you, that you really like that person you ve never

been able to be.

This is a place that will help you.

Doug

>

> OK... so new here and in Dec. my therapist said " I think your mother

has borderline personality. " I started reading up on this illness and SO

MUCH of it fits and explains many things over the years (like being best

friends with someone one day and the next she hated them, etc., etc.)!

Recently she had another health scare (she constantly has health issues)

and I'm getting the " if you'd just be nicer/more compassionate/etc. "

from the bro and dad. And, of course, the NADA is being nice - probably

because I have yet to even ask about her health issue and have only

talked to her once in the 10 days since.

>

> Anyway, I am starting to feel that familiar guilt and now doubt. What

if she isn't really borderline and really IS a nice woman with just

depression issues. Then I flash back to all the crazy things (literally)

and the lack of being there for me and the passive-aggressive sh** and

the guilt trips and the flip-flopping feelings/rules/etc. that were

always part of the " norm " in her world, etc. and I think " of course she

is BP - don't let her be nice and suck you in again! Stand your ground! "

>

> Any of you feel this way? Is this normal? Ugh - I'm so sick of it and

just. totally. emotionally. exhausted. (sigh)

>

> How do I KNOW it really is BP and I'm really NOT just being a

hard-hearted b**ch that I'm so often accused of being?

>

> - MJ

>

[Guest guest]

ROTFLMBO

Jewish BP mom. That could have it s own designation in the DSM V.

Mike Myers could do a little kvetching on it.

Oh , I m all gefeltish. Talk among yourselves. I don t want to

bother you dear, I ll just sit here and suffer for a moment. Not like

Marvin s mother. He brings her bagesl every day on the way to work.

Marvin is such a wonderful son. Just the other day I said to him, Oh

Maaaaarvin, if ONLY I had a son like you. Not that my boy doesn t try.

Still a MOTHER forgives, always forgives. Oy.

OH, my, belly hurts. That is funny

Doug

>

> My mom's high functioning too, with the angry 5 year old living inside

that she brings out only for us special few, so I can totally relate to

the feeling that you are going crazy. The guilt they heap upon us

doesn't help either.

> Speaking of guilt, I think there should be a site for Jewish children

of BP's. Our parents are specially trained in guilt. LOL

[Guest guest]

LOL, I love it!

>

> ROTFLMBO

>

> Jewish BP mom. That could have it s own designation in the DSM V.

>

> Mike Myers could do a little kvetching on it.

>

> Oh , I m all gefeltish. Talk among yourselves. I don t want to

> bother you dear, I ll just sit here and suffer for a moment. Not like

> Marvin s mother. He brings her bagesl every day on the way to work.

> Marvin is such a wonderful son. Just the other day I said to him, Oh

> Maaaaarvin, if ONLY I had a son like you. Not that my boy doesn t try.

> Still a MOTHER forgives, always forgives. Oy.

>

> OH, my, belly hurts. That is funny

>

> Doug

>

>

> >

> > My mom's high functioning too, with the angry 5 year old living inside

> that she brings out only for us special few, so I can totally relate to

> the feeling that you are going crazy. The guilt they heap upon us

> doesn't help either.

> > Speaking of guilt, I think there should be a site for Jewish children

> of BP's. Our parents are specially trained in guilt. LOL

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow Doug, that made me all misty-eyed! Amen to that! I especially like the

soup and Hoover vaccuum black hole part! LOLOL!!!