Caught off guard. . .again

[Guest guest]

After reading the Eggshells book last year, hanging out here and knowing I'm not

alone and learning how to cope, I've been feeling so much better. I haven't been

living in constant fear of my nada, I'm better able to tune out her garbage and

when she tells me not to call for awhile, I just say " OK. " But what's that

saying about pride goeth before a fall? Yep, she got me.

Monday I went over for the usual visit to run errands. I was fighting a head

cold and didn't feel great but whatever. The cigarette smoke set my sinuses on

fire. Yuck. She spent the first hour complaining about her life, her health, my

Dad, the President, all the usual stuff. We finally got out of the house and ran

some errands. Lunchtime rolled around and we were at a restaurant.

My husband and I were telling her about a funeral we attended for a very nice

woman. Talk turned to death and remarriage. My husband said he would not

remarry. My nada then said, " Well, you can move in with me but you don't have to

hump me. " Thank goodness my husband didn't catch it. He asked me what she said,

I just said he didn't need to know, it was R rated. As for me, I wanted to puke.

So much for lunch.

The idea of my nada even thinking of sex with my husband was too much. That's

like incest or child molestation. I know she thinks men are always looking at

her and wanting to " jump her bones " as she puts it. Does she even look in the

mirror? Anyway, it took me 2 days to get past that one.

Just goes to show that no matter how strong I think I am, she still has the

upper hand. The only time I'll really be free is when she's dead.

[Guest guest]

O M G!

GROSS!

What does Eggshells say about that? When they say crap like that? I seriously

want to say: that is not appropriate, we are leaving now. And end the visit.

But seriously, GROSS! I'm glad you didn't repeat it to your husband.

Blech!

>

> After reading the Eggshells book last year, hanging out here and knowing I'm

not alone and learning how to cope, I've been feeling so much better. I haven't

been living in constant fear of my nada, I'm better able to tune out her garbage

and when she tells me not to call for awhile, I just say " OK. " But what's that

saying about pride goeth before a fall? Yep, she got me.

>

> Monday I went over for the usual visit to run errands. I was fighting a head

cold and didn't feel great but whatever. The cigarette smoke set my sinuses on

fire. Yuck. She spent the first hour complaining about her life, her health, my

Dad, the President, all the usual stuff. We finally got out of the house and ran

some errands. Lunchtime rolled around and we were at a restaurant.

>

> My husband and I were telling her about a funeral we attended for a very nice

woman. Talk turned to death and remarriage. My husband said he would not

remarry. My nada then said, " Well, you can move in with me but you don't have to

hump me. " Thank goodness my husband didn't catch it. He asked me what she said,

I just said he didn't need to know, it was R rated. As for me, I wanted to puke.

So much for lunch.

>

> The idea of my nada even thinking of sex with my husband was too much. That's

like incest or child molestation. I know she thinks men are always looking at

her and wanting to " jump her bones " as she puts it. Does she even look in the

mirror? Anyway, it took me 2 days to get past that one.

>

> Just goes to show that no matter how strong I think I am, she still has the

upper hand. The only time I'll really be free is when she's dead.

>

[Guest guest]

Yuck! That's what I call diarrhea of the mouth. My nada

sometimes suffers from it too. Something comes into her head and

she says it no matter how inappropriate it is.

At 10:39 AM 03/24/2011 IreneM wrote:

>After reading the Eggshells book last year, hanging out here

>and knowing I'm not alone and learning how to cope, I've been

>feeling so much better. I haven't been living in constant fear

>of my nada, I'm better able to tune out her garbage and when

>she tells me not to call for awhile, I just say " OK. " But

>what's that saying about pride goeth before a fall? Yep, she

>got me.

>

>Monday I went over for the usual visit to run errands. I was

>fighting a head cold and didn't feel great but whatever. The

>cigarette smoke set my sinuses on fire. Yuck. She spent the

>first hour complaining about her life, her health, my Dad, the

>President, all the usual stuff. We finally got out of the house

>and ran some errands. Lunchtime rolled around and we were at a

>restaurant.

>

>My husband and I were telling her about a funeral we attended

>for a very nice woman. Talk turned to death and remarriage. My

>husband said he would not remarry. My nada then said, " Well,

>you can move in with me but you don't have to hump me. " Thank

>goodness my husband didn't catch it. He asked me what she said,

>I just said he didn't need to know, it was R rated. As for me,

>I wanted to puke. So much for lunch.

>

>The idea of my nada even thinking of sex with my husband was

>too much. That's like incest or child molestation. I know she

>thinks men are always looking at her and wanting to " jump her

>bones " as she puts it. Does she even look in the mirror?

>Anyway, it took me 2 days to get past that one.

>

>Just goes to show that no matter how strong I think I am, she

>still has the upper hand. The only time I'll really be free is

>when she's dead.

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

I agree. Its really hard to wrap our heads around the concept, but, I think a

very consistent and very firm response to boundary violating works best. We're

so used to " not hearing " and " not seeing " and " not feeling " the abuse that our

nadas dish out to us, we're so used to just curling in on ourselves, just

getting along, just being " nice " , not rocking the boat, and maybe even partially

dissociating, that its hard for US to change OUR own response.

Its not easy to learn to be assertive, but its possible.

A polite but firm response would be something like, " I will not stay and listen

to you when you say ugly, crude things like that to me. I'm leaving now/My

husband and I are leaving now. Here's the money for our meals, and here's money

for a cab. I'll talk to you/see you some other time. "

And you leave.

Or you hang up the phone. Each And Every Time.

(It does require the mind-set on your part that you are willing to and prepared

to leave at any moment, and that you will probably have to.)

When I have done this with my nada, it felt to me like trying to train a rather

old, rather deaf, rather spoiled and dominant old dog to not crap and pee on the

rug anymore. And if the old dog will not learn to not crap or pee on the rug,

or if it bares its teeth at you and growls or even tries to bite you, then it

gets to go live in the back yard in a nice dog house, and not come into your

house anymore.

It just struck me that that is what being insulted, being emotionaly abused

feels like to me: that I am being shat on, and pissed on, verbally. Its an act

of contempt, an attempt to degrade me. Like monkeys throwing poo at each other

or at humans.

I got tired of being shat on, I guess.

-Annie

> >

> > After reading the Eggshells book last year, hanging out here and knowing I'm

not alone and learning how to cope, I've been feeling so much better. I haven't

been living in constant fear of my nada, I'm better able to tune out her garbage

and when she tells me not to call for awhile, I just say " OK. " But what's that

saying about pride goeth before a fall? Yep, she got me.

> >

> > Monday I went over for the usual visit to run errands. I was fighting a head

cold and didn't feel great but whatever. The cigarette smoke set my sinuses on

fire. Yuck. She spent the first hour complaining about her life, her health, my

Dad, the President, all the usual stuff. We finally got out of the house and ran

some errands. Lunchtime rolled around and we were at a restaurant.

> >

> > My husband and I were telling her about a funeral we attended for a very

nice woman. Talk turned to death and remarriage. My husband said he would not

remarry. My nada then said, " Well, you can move in with me but you don't have to

hump me. " Thank goodness my husband didn't catch it. He asked me what she said,

I just said he didn't need to know, it was R rated. As for me, I wanted to puke.

So much for lunch.

> >

> > The idea of my nada even thinking of sex with my husband was too much.

That's like incest or child molestation. I know she thinks men are always

looking at her and wanting to " jump her bones " as she puts it. Does she even

look in the mirror? Anyway, it took me 2 days to get past that one.

> >

> > Just goes to show that no matter how strong I think I am, she still has the

upper hand. The only time I'll really be free is when she's dead.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yuk,

I have an aunt, my nada's sister, who is an eligible candidate for a nada

herself... when her husband died she started making comments like that to my

mom. She started in with how they could share my dad... she got all flirty

and started talking about moving in.. just gross... there must be no net or

filter in their minds that catches the garbage... it just falls right out of

their mouths and onto whoever is standing nearby.

Hope the image is fully scrubbed from your brain!

Cuddle

[Guest guest]

I think you're right, there must be something that's not working right in the

executive part of the brain in some of the lower-functioning bpds. Their

emotional " rheostat " must be busted. Thoughts and feelings can come spilling out

with little if any filtering or judgment to moderate them.

Its more complicated when the bpd is high-functioning like my nada, though; she

can filter and control herself really well when she wants to, apparently,

(unless she is feeling highly emotional or highly stressed). In public my nada

is just charming, like, 95% of the time. But when she's alone with my Sister,

or me, or our dad (when he was alive) or with her own older sister she decides

to just turn off her " filter " and let whatever toxic or inappropriate thought or

feeling that comes into her head come spewing out.

I have to say that it seems to me that in a lot of the stories of bpd loved ones

posted about here, the bpds seem to have a hard time with the whole concept of

" appropriateness " , and it seems to me that that ties in with the concept of

" empathy " or lack of empathy.

Or, maybe some nadas really do think that they're either hilariously funny or

devastatingly attractive. Who knows?

That's just me speculating out loud; so, I'm not saying that's a fact, its just

how it appears to me.

-Annie

>

> Yuk,

>

> I have an aunt, my nada's sister, who is an eligible candidate for a nada

> herself... when her husband died she started making comments like that to my

> mom. She started in with how they could share my dad... she got all flirty

> and started talking about moving in.. just gross... there must be no net or

> filter in their minds that catches the garbage... it just falls right out of

> their mouths and onto whoever is standing nearby.

>

> Hope the image is fully scrubbed from your brain!

>

> Cuddle

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" It just struck me that that is what being insulted, being emotionaly abused

feels like to me: that I am being shat on, and pissed on, verbally. Its an act

of contempt, an attempt to degrade me. Like monkeys throwing poo at each other "

OMG that is SO freaking accurate that it just gave me goosebumps. Well said!

[Guest guest]

My nada thinks she is the smartest person in the world. She is also the most

vain person I've ever met. But I honestly can't tell whether, in the depths of

her wacko brain, she HONESTLY thinks that, or is just posturing to hide a very

deep insecurity and lack of confidence. It's got to be exhausting to live

inside that head...

[Guest guest]

My nada would start making fun of her mentally handicapped sister, and when my

sisters and I would get embarrassed and tell her to stop, it only seemed to egg

her on more. She would then turn to her OTHER emotionally handicapped sister

and make fun of her, and get her hurt and angry- then act disgusted at her hurt

and say, " Oh, she has always had an anger problem. Which is why she is in a

home. "

Oh, and the lady in charge of the home? Thought my mom was a saint for taking

her sisters out for a visit. My Aunts could be very childish, but not mean or

selfish. As I see it, childishness was to be expected and worked with, given

they were mentally handicapped. My nada? Thought she was SOOO funny, witty,

smart... When one has embarrassed or hurt those present, one is not

funny...and not exactly smart.

However, despite her own 'permissable' inappropriate comments and behavior,

she was quick to slap the label unacceptable on anyone else for relatively

harmless, if minor, 'offenses', in comparison.

>

> My nada thinks she is the smartest person in the world. She is also the most

vain person I've ever met. But I honestly can't tell whether, in the depths of

her wacko brain, she HONESTLY thinks that, or is just posturing to hide a very

deep insecurity and lack of confidence. It's got to be exhausting to live

inside that head...

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for the feedback. Sometimes I do think it's just me overreacting.

And yes, I do try to pull back into my shell and ignore her garbage. I keep

telling myself " She'll never change. Why bother to speak up? " On the few

occasions I have said something, it only made things worse and I'm the one that

suffered with sleepless nights and diarrhea (stress hits me in the gut). I've

found it easier to look the other way and ignore her as much as possible.

Yes, I've recovered from this hit. Thank goodness for healthy friends and a

loving husband. They erase the ugly and fill my days with smiles.

My nada has always done and said things for attention and shock factor. She

thinks it's great to see others' responses. She feels in control then.

As for her self image, I have no idea what she believes. But she talks about

people, usually men, looking at her all the time. Sometimes she'll even use me

as their focus, that they're staring at me. I doubt it and I don't care. I'm not

worth looking at.

I'll just be so glad when she's gone. Any time I go over and her porch light is

still on, I kind of wish that she had passed away and didn't get up to turn off

the light. So far I've always been disappointed. Shame on me. ;-)

>

> Or, maybe some nadas really do think that they're either hilariously funny or

devastatingly attractive. Who knows?

>

[Guest guest]

Good Lord. Did your nada like to drown kittens and puppies, too? I can't

believe how cruel she was being to her mentally/emotionally handicapped

sisters.... Wow. That's just so far beyond despicable I can't fathom it.

-Annie

> >

> > My nada thinks she is the smartest person in the world. She is also the

most vain person I've ever met. But I honestly can't tell whether, in the

depths of her wacko brain, she HONESTLY thinks that, or is just posturing to

hide a very deep insecurity and lack of confidence. It's got to be exhausting

to live inside that head...

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It was normal as a child, but as a teen, I stood up for them...well, as best

I could. Giving her the Look and spending time talking and driving them

around... Hey, it doesn't seem like much, but if she ignored or abused

someone and you didn't follow suit...watch OUT. So that took a lot. As an

adult now,she started using them to guilt me out of going nc, so she could

badger THEM into giving up my phone, address and kids pictures...

And yes, she had little compassion for animals. Would get cute little

puppies, then neglect or get rid of them as young adults. Let us children

get guinea pigs and rabbits, but refused to get the food, separate cages to

avoid breeding, mulch, hay etc. and put them outside in below freezing

weather, where most of them died... I loved those animals and was horrified

at my nadas callous treatment of them. Why have pets if you won't care for

them?

Sunny

Good Lord. Did your nada like to drown kittens and puppies, too? I can't

believe how cruel she was being to her mentally/emotionally handicapped

sisters.... Wow. That's just so far beyond despicable I can't fathom it.

-Annie

>

> My nada would...

[Guest guest]

Sunny! OMG, I have never heard anyone else have the same thing with their nada

and pets, but mine is the exact same way. And I mean exact down to the guinea

pigs dying of cold outside!

When my first dog Sandy died, my dad and I loved that dog so much, and we both

said we didn't want another pet for awhile. A few weeks later my mom comes home

with a puppy golden retriever that, guess what, my dad and I took care of

entirely. She never even pet the dog. She just gets annoyed by her. That dog

became my dog, but when I moved away I had to leave her with nada. When the dog

died, about a month later nada was all excited because she got another puppy, a

white lab. She never does anything to take care of the animals, least of all

actually pet them and love them. If they come to her for attention, she just

pushes them away.

Why do you want pets if you don't want to PET THEM? Furthermore, she neglects

them, and I am somewhat suspicious that it was her neglect that led to my poor

golden having cancer that wasn't detected. She treated those animals like shit.

Just like she treated us kids.

When I was visiting over the holidays, the cat we had since I was a kid had been

in some kind of accident and had to be fed through a stomach tube. After she

went into her rage mode, she refused to come out of her room for two days to

even feed the cat, HER CAT, that would have starved to death otherwise. Her

husband and I had to feed the cat, even though we had never fed it through the

tube before.

She's a fucking psychopath.

> >

> > My nada would...

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It does sound similar!

Sunny! OMG, I have never heard anyone else have the same thing with their

nada and pets, but mine is the exact same way. And I mean exact down to the

guinea pigs dying of cold outside!

When my first dog Sandy died, my dad and I loved that dog so much, and we

both said we didn't want another pet for awhile. A few weeks later my mom

comes home with a puppy golden retriever that, guess what, my dad and I took

care of entirely. She never even pet the dog. She just gets annoyed by her.

That dog became my dog, but when I moved away I had to leave her with nada.

When the dog died, about a month later nada was all excited because she got

another puppy, a white lab. She never does anything to take care of the

animals, least of all actually pet them and love them. If they come to her

for attention, she just pushes them away.

Why do you want pets if you don't want to PET THEM? Furthermore, she

neglects them, and I am somewhat suspicious that it was her neglect that led

to my poor golden having cancer that wasn't detected. She treated those

animals like shit. Just like she treated us kids.

When I was visiting over the holidays, the cat we had since I was a kid had

been in some kind of accident and had to be fed through a stomach tube.

After she went into her rage mode, she refused to come out of her room for

two days to even feed the cat, HER CAT, that would have starved to death

otherwise. Her husband and I had to feed the cat, even though we had never

fed it through the tube before.

She's a fucking psychopath.

>

>

>

> Good Lord. Did your n...

>

[Guest guest]

Oy, that sounds just horrible. As an avid animal-lover myself, I can't imagine

that kind of treatment. For her pets or her children, it's despicable. My nada

swings the other way, and is so freaking obsessive and paranoid about her pets

that if one of them looks cross-eyed at her she's convinced it's going to drop

dead instantly. The best part is that she's accumulated enough animals that the

work associated with them is unbelievable. And then she plummets into deep,

melodramatic depressions about her ruined life. And somehow those depressions

turn into rages at me AND neglect of the animals. So most of the animals have

become essentially mine, since I feel bad for them and since it's easier for me

to take care of them than to deal with her hysteria and threats of suicide.

Win-Win. As per usual.

[Guest guest]

Man, Irene. That really reminds me of what my mother does. Just when I think I

have all my defenses up and she can't possibly say anything that can shock or

upset me any more, she figures out a way to do it.

I call it the " emotional ambush. "

I am literally to the point that I'm almost afraid to talk to her, because I

never know what she might say. It also bothers me because it's pure and simple

emotional abuse to speak to your children in such a manner, but they of course,

will never see it that way. (It's not me, it's you! Can't you take a joke?

You're too sensitive, etc. Barf.)

[Guest guest]

Today was another day with her. I managed to ignore her dramatics and inwardly

giggle at her antics. She shuffled along like she was 120 years old. When she's

happy, she can move just fine. She flirted with a guy at the fort, talked about

how her voice must attract people because when she talks or laughs, everyone

turns to look at her. Actually she's quite average in those attributes but

whatever. At least I made it through the day and I'm home now. This is my

sanctuary. I'm free for 2 whole days. Each visit with her is like a minefield.

Today I kept all my pieces together.

>

> Man, Irene. That really reminds me of what my mother does. Just when I think I

have all my defenses up and she can't possibly say anything that can shock or

upset me any more, she figures out a way to do it.

>

> I call it the " emotional ambush. "

>

> I am literally to the point that I'm almost afraid to talk to her, because I

never know what she might say. It also bothers me because it's pure and simple

emotional abuse to speak to your children in such a manner, but they of course,

will never see it that way. (It's not me, it's you! Can't you take a joke?

You're too sensitive, etc. Barf.)

>