Re: nada conversation (a.k.a. not a conversation)

[Guest guest]

I think you handled the situation extremely well; that's just about the most

compassionate but self-protective way such an exchange could have been handled.

You were being assertive, not mean or hateful or insulting. You politely set a

boundary, stating that you didn't want to discuss bad things about Aunt H's

behaviors from her past. (I think you were right and that was an oblique way of

comparing her behaviors to yours.)

You stopped nada's tirade politely. When nada would not change the subject AND

became verbally abusive to you, you ended the conversation by gently

disconnecting the call.

You get an A+ and a gold star for managing that situation in a very calm,

rational, adult way. Go to the head of the class!

-Annie

>

> I decided last night to take a phone call from private caller. I guess that

was being inconsistent; I realize that now. I had made the decision not to

answer private caller phone calls. But, we had something happen here locally

that was in the national news, and I suspected it was best to answer and address

that.

>

> Surprise. Nada had not been following national news and so was not calling to

see how recent events had effected us. No, she was calling because I had not

told her that we'd received my husband and son's birthday cards and my son's

(belated) present almost a month ago. She asked me how the gift had been. I am

thinking, are you serious? She sent my husband a card she'd likely been hoarding

since the 70's . To my son she gave a science book from the Time-Life series

that was published prior to the walk on the moon. You might call it an antique,

except that it has a rip on the front cover and it smells musty. I did think

about telling my mom thanks for the presents and cards.... but I was feeling

like I would burst out laughing if I did it. We'd already, privately, laughed at

our house.

>

> I told my mom, yesterday, " Well there are some things in science that are

classic, maybe even unchanging, like Light. " (The science book was entitled,

Light)I wish I had had the wherewithal to tell her to thank my dad for picking

it out. My intuition tells me that he could have been involved in the selection,

making something good out of something wayyyy bad in my book. I mean, would I

ever give something to someone that was from my attic, 40 years old? It would

make for great story, but oh my gosh... what such a present actually tells a

person about how much you really value them?

>

> But I didn't go there last night. I just could not bring myself to say thank

you.

>

> Next my mom asked, " have you heard from Aunt Horacia (who has not gone by that

name in over 40 years, she understandably hates it) lately? I said, is there

something that I should know about? And then I said something innocent that set

nada into a tirade. " Do you know how terrible Aunt H. was to our mother when

she was a teenager? " (oh-oh, seems like that is too close to the same theme she

plays with me, so I said, " Let's not go there tonight " with a smile in my

voice.) Then she said, I know people who live in the same town as Aunt H. (IN

other words, " I have my sources. " ) The Letterby's. (OH, I thought, I know

how my mom's siblings cannot stand the Letterby's, because they put on airs, etc

etc). So I said, " I'm going to go now. " And as I took the phone away from my

ear, I heard my nada get profane. Left me no choice but to follow through and

end the conversation with a soft-button hang up. The kindest I could do under

the circumstances.

>

> I think of my mom as a ShermanTank in these kinds of conversations. I

immediately see that the Sherman tank mode can take many casualties without one

iota of chagrin or compassion. So I get out of there!

>

> Of course, in my next conversation be it next week or next year, nada will

identify me as the problem person because I had the clarity of mind to end the

conversation. Sigh. Is there any other way to handle a person's bringing up

issues that they can easily use to turn on you?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gold star, absolutely! Work deserving of a refrigerator magnet even! Kudos!

[Guest guest]

I think you did a wonderful thing. I know it can be really, really, hard to

deflect conversations like that. I wish I had the strength that you did. My nada

does the same thing, except with boyfriends; she always wants to talk about how

whoever I'm dating is a terrible, creepy person who cheats one me. I've told her

that I don't want to discuss my dating life with her in that way, so now she

presents it as a " concern for my safety " . I just usually address her " concerns "

after that, give her no other answer than that I appreciate her concerns but I

am going to do what I think is best in this situation and she is just going to

have to accept that. It doesn't work like a charm, but at least I have something

to reply. Even that took *years* of practice and a ruined relationship (we

weren't right for each other, anyway, but it didn't have to be the hell it

turned into because of her). It sounds like you have your own family and house

now, so hanging up is probably a better option, but that's what I suggest if

your Nada shows up to talk one on one.

Good luck!

[Guest guest]

My nada has hated all of my boyfriends. And has hated my husband passionately

for almost 11 years. I finally told her one day that I wasn't interested in any

of her relationship advice, given her 4 failed marriages and bazillion loser

boyfriends. I wanted to tell her that my husband is the only reason I'm sane

and patient enough to deal with her on a regular basis, but I managed to

restrain myself

[Guest guest]

Hey folks whose nadas hate your partners. . . I just finished reading a book

about covert incest - where your relationship with your parent violates

emotional boundaries and you become their spouse. Could this be the case

with your nadas? You were her partner instead of fada?

>

>

> My nada has hated all of my boyfriends. And has hated my husband

> passionately for almost 11 years. I finally told her one day that I wasn't

> interested in any of her relationship advice, given her 4 failed marriages

> and bazillion loser boyfriends. I wanted to tell her that my husband is the

> only reason I'm sane and patient enough to deal with her on a regular basis,

> but I managed to restrain myself

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and perspective. I got a smile at the " grade "

I got, too. Annie, you rock.

Seriously though, it helps to share these conversations too. The ones that feel

like successes are often hard to share with normal friends. They either

recognize how mean nada is and focus on empathy; or they wonder what I have done

wrong to deserve such treatment. Both responses leave me frustrated.

It really helped to get affirmation here. I don't think I will ever outgrow that

need, because the first eighteen years of my life were spent with little or no

advocacy. Feeling like I was crazy.

My nada is very stuck in the past. Imagine venting to your daughter about a

sibling (the daughter's aunt) who supposedly gave her mother hell when she was a

teenager. Wow. My therapist shared with me this: the coincidence of the

Time-Life book (from my own pre-teen years), my mother's stuck-ness on my young

adulthood and my mom's, reveal that my mom is reacting globally to issues that

are unresolved in HER teen years. When we looked at this together, it actually

made sense. My therapist pointed out the time when Anita was making big

news because of her position on gays. My therapist began to suspect Anita

herself was gay (which was why my therapist thought was making global

attacks on gays and was even willing to ruin her career about it). Turns out no,

Anita herself was not gay, but her husband at the time had a gay private life.

So, in other words, there is SOMETHING that my mom is protecting by attacking

me, my aunt... and anyone else she knows who was not a perfect princess (it's a

female thing) in their young adult years. I am sick of it, and there seems to be

nothing I can do to stop it. But I may identify it next time, with a question.

What drives me crazy is having my feet held to the ashes of the past.

Oh, and she called me the two days ago...joking with me as if I were a child...

about my hanging up on her (in the conversation I shared here this weekend!) and

was smilingly telling me I needed to grow up. I had to tell her that I won't

hang up the phone if she does not give me reason to. It's up to her. I really

did not know how to deal with the " growing up " part, I got a bit defensive, but

with a clear head about me. Then she went on to tell me that she wanted to help

me... I had to say, you are trying to address a me that is in the past, and that

is not helpful.

She hung up the phone on me after awhile, I forget exactly why. Maybe because I

put her on speaker phone and the whole family could hear her stupidity. She was

so driven by whatever she wanted to accomplish on the phone, that she called

back AGAIN, to plead with me to put my son in a private school. She feels I am

imposing " integration " on him by having him in public schools, which, where I

live, are very diverse. Not lily white like the ones I attended. She feels I am

subjecting him to ... dangers...etc etc... And I just did not argue that point.

Again, the past is in view. Integration happened over forty years ago. Today we

are back to neighborhood schools...I did not even want to argue it with my mom.

And my husband was disgusted by her reference to minorities.... because again, I

put her on speaker phone. I just can't deal with her voice in my ear when she is

working the story of her imagination on me...

And, for the second time in one day she hung up on me. I am very very sure she

thinks that she hung up on me because I would not " allow " her to do her job as a

mom. Most parents say that their kids are their kids for life. But when it comes

to a parent that is " nada good " parent... the child has had to cut the cord.

And my nada doesn't get that either. She just sees me as bad for cutting it.

And I will always be a problem child because I did so. She sees things

differently for my brother, because, he is a boy and boys are supposed to be

independent from their mothers. In her book, I am supposed to be the loving,

caring, tolerant one.

Good-bye to that claustrophobic, disempowering role!

Best,

[Guest guest]

Could be covert incest, or it could be borderline pd fear of abandonment: the

finance/spouse will take her adult child's time and attention away from nada.

Or it could be narcissistic envy/jealousy: her child has something nada does

not, a male's attention, and nada wants that attention for herself.

-Annie

>

> >

> >

> > My nada has hated all of my boyfriends. And has hated my husband

> > passionately for almost 11 years. I finally told her one day that I wasn't

> > interested in any of her relationship advice, given her 4 failed marriages

> > and bazillion loser boyfriends. I wanted to tell her that my husband is the

> > only reason I'm sane and patient enough to deal with her on a regular basis,

> > but I managed to restrain myself

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I agree with everyone else that you handled this well, and even had some laughs

out of it. I enjoyed your observation about Light still being of interest to

science after all these years, ha ha.

I also was struck how you started your post saying that you were being

inconsistent by answering a private number. I think that, in dealing with a

nada and a BP FOO, the burden is on us KOs to set boundaries and maintain some

kind of normality, and tend to our own healing, and all of this takes such

strength.

I am reading about boundaries, and the book I am reading says that boundaries

can be too flexible and too open, letting everything and everyone in. But

boundaries can also be too rigid.

I think you were not inconsistent. You demonstrated flexible boundaries. And,

that you were able to deal with nada after you talked with her, shows incredible

boundary skills on your part. I admire you.

WTH

[Guest guest]

Your insights RE your nada's behaviors are growing clearer every time you post,

that is awesome. I think you're right, and she is stuck in the past, probably

due to unresolved issues of her own. To me, though, the hanging up on you

could simply be a " got you back " thing. She probably viewed that (you hanging

up on her, even though she earned it by being verbally abusive) as a power move

on your part, so, she has to do it back to you to get back even with you.

Thanks for sharing your journey to understanding your nada, and your subsequent

greater peace and healing, with us, its very inspiring!

-Annie

>

> Thanks everyone for your thoughts and perspective. I got a smile at the

" grade " I got, too. Annie, you rock.

>

> Seriously though, it helps to share these conversations too. The ones that

feel like successes are often hard to share with normal friends. They either

recognize how mean nada is and focus on empathy; or they wonder what I have done

wrong to deserve such treatment. Both responses leave me frustrated.

>

> It really helped to get affirmation here. I don't think I will ever outgrow

that need, because the first eighteen years of my life were spent with little or

no advocacy. Feeling like I was crazy.

>

> My nada is very stuck in the past. Imagine venting to your daughter about a

sibling (the daughter's aunt) who supposedly gave her mother hell when she was a

teenager. Wow. My therapist shared with me this: the coincidence of the

Time-Life book (from my own pre-teen years), my mother's stuck-ness on my young

adulthood and my mom's, reveal that my mom is reacting globally to issues that

are unresolved in HER teen years. When we looked at this together, it actually

made sense. My therapist pointed out the time when Anita was making big

news because of her position on gays. My therapist began to suspect Anita

herself was gay (which was why my therapist thought was making global

attacks on gays and was even willing to ruin her career about it). Turns out no,

Anita herself was not gay, but her husband at the time had a gay private life.

So, in other words, there is SOMETHING that my mom is protecting by attacking

me, my aunt... and anyone else she knows who was not a perfect princess (it's a

female thing) in their young adult years. I am sick of it, and there seems to be

nothing I can do to stop it. But I may identify it next time, with a question.

What drives me crazy is having my feet held to the ashes of the past.

>

> Oh, and she called me the two days ago...joking with me as if I were a

child... about my hanging up on her (in the conversation I shared here this

weekend!) and was smilingly telling me I needed to grow up. I had to tell her

that I won't hang up the phone if she does not give me reason to. It's up to

her. I really did not know how to deal with the " growing up " part, I got a bit

defensive, but with a clear head about me. Then she went on to tell me that she

wanted to help me... I had to say, you are trying to address a me that is in the

past, and that is not helpful.

>

> She hung up the phone on me after awhile, I forget exactly why. Maybe because

I put her on speaker phone and the whole family could hear her stupidity. She

was so driven by whatever she wanted to accomplish on the phone, that she called

back AGAIN, to plead with me to put my son in a private school. She feels I am

imposing " integration " on him by having him in public schools, which, where I

live, are very diverse. Not lily white like the ones I attended. She feels I am

subjecting him to ... dangers...etc etc... And I just did not argue that point.

>

> Again, the past is in view. Integration happened over forty years ago. Today

we are back to neighborhood schools...I did not even want to argue it with my

mom. And my husband was disgusted by her reference to minorities.... because

again, I put her on speaker phone. I just can't deal with her voice in my ear

when she is working the story of her imagination on me...

>

> And, for the second time in one day she hung up on me. I am very very sure she

thinks that she hung up on me because I would not " allow " her to do her job as a

mom. Most parents say that their kids are their kids for life. But when it comes

to a parent that is " nada good " parent... the child has had to cut the cord.

And my nada doesn't get that either. She just sees me as bad for cutting it.

And I will always be a problem child because I did so. She sees things

differently for my brother, because, he is a boy and boys are supposed to be

independent from their mothers. In her book, I am supposed to be the loving,

caring, tolerant one.

>

> Good-bye to that claustrophobic, disempowering role!

>

> Best,

>

[Guest guest]

That's interesting about your nada being stuck in the past. Mine always was

too. She honestly was still furious when I was in elementary school about

her brother going in the bathroom to get out of washing dishes - and guess

where nada was when there were dishes to be washed?

She also had all these grudges against my dad and grandparents from the

first few years of her marriage. Like her mother in law chose her wedding

ring. And her washer/dryer. And my dad didn't show her the house before he

bought it.

I agree that these things could be grevious. BUT knowing nada, there is no

doubt in my mind that when it was time to go look at the house, she flushed

her hair down the toilet and wasn't available - - - or something like that.

She always screwed up even the simplest plans, so to get anything

accomplished usually meant leaving her out.

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 9:03 AM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> Your insights RE your nada's behaviors are growing clearer every time you

> post, that is awesome. I think you're right, and she is stuck in the past,

> probably due to unresolved issues of her own. To me, though, the hanging up

> on you could simply be a " got you back " thing. She probably viewed that (you

> hanging up on her, even though she earned it by being verbally abusive) as a

> power move on your part, so, she has to do it back to you to get back even

> with you.

> Thanks for sharing your journey to understanding your nada, and your

> subsequent greater peace and healing, with us, its very inspiring!

>

> -Annie

>

>

> >

> > Thanks everyone for your thoughts and perspective. I got a smile at the

> " grade " I got, too. Annie, you rock.

> >

> > Seriously though, it helps to share these conversations too. The ones

> that feel like successes are often hard to share with normal friends. They

> either recognize how mean nada is and focus on empathy; or they wonder what

> I have done wrong to deserve such treatment. Both responses leave me

> frustrated.

> >

> > It really helped to get affirmation here. I don't think I will ever

> outgrow that need, because the first eighteen years of my life were spent

> with little or no advocacy. Feeling like I was crazy.

> >

> > My nada is very stuck in the past. Imagine venting to your daughter about

> a sibling (the daughter's aunt) who supposedly gave her mother hell when she

> was a teenager. Wow. My therapist shared with me this: the coincidence of

> the Time-Life book (from my own pre-teen years), my mother's stuck-ness on

> my young adulthood and my mom's, reveal that my mom is reacting globally to

> issues that are unresolved in HER teen years. When we looked at this

> together, it actually made sense. My therapist pointed out the time when

> Anita was making big news because of her position on gays. My

> therapist began to suspect Anita herself was gay (which was why my therapist

> thought was making global attacks on gays and was even willing to

> ruin her career about it). Turns out no, Anita herself was not gay, but her

> husband at the time had a gay private life. So, in other words, there is

> SOMETHING that my mom is protecting by attacking me, my aunt... and anyone

> else she knows who was not a perfect princess (it's a female thing) in their

> young adult years. I am sick of it, and there seems to be nothing I can do

> to stop it. But I may identify it next time, with a question. What drives me

> crazy is having my feet held to the ashes of the past.

> >

> > Oh, and she called me the two days ago...joking with me as if I were a

> child... about my hanging up on her (in the conversation I shared here this

> weekend!) and was smilingly telling me I needed to grow up. I had to tell

> her that I won't hang up the phone if she does not give me reason to. It's

> up to her. I really did not know how to deal with the " growing up " part, I

> got a bit defensive, but with a clear head about me. Then she went on to

> tell me that she wanted to help me... I had to say, you are trying to

> address a me that is in the past, and that is not helpful.

> >

> > She hung up the phone on me after awhile, I forget exactly why. Maybe

> because I put her on speaker phone and the whole family could hear her

> stupidity. She was so driven by whatever she wanted to accomplish on the

> phone, that she called back AGAIN, to plead with me to put my son in a

> private school. She feels I am imposing " integration " on him by having him

> in public schools, which, where I live, are very diverse. Not lily white

> like the ones I attended. She feels I am subjecting him to ... dangers...etc

> etc... And I just did not argue that point.

> >

> > Again, the past is in view. Integration happened over forty years ago.

> Today we are back to neighborhood schools...I did not even want to argue it

> with my mom. And my husband was disgusted by her reference to minorities....

> because again, I put her on speaker phone. I just can't deal with her voice

> in my ear when she is working the story of her imagination on me...

> >

> > And, for the second time in one day she hung up on me. I am very very

> sure she thinks that she hung up on me because I would not " allow " her to do

> her job as a mom. Most parents say that their kids are their kids for life.

> But when it comes to a parent that is " nada good " parent... the child has

> had to cut the cord. And my nada doesn't get that either. She just sees me

> as bad for cutting it. And I will always be a problem child because I did

> so. She sees things differently for my brother, because, he is a boy and

> boys are supposed to be independent from their mothers. In her book, I am

> supposed to be the loving, caring, tolerant one.

> >

> > Good-bye to that claustrophobic, disempowering role!

> >

> > Best,

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On the subject of nada's being stuck in the past...

My mom is as well. To the point that it makes people nauseous and she will make

a crowd of her FOO begin to roll their eyes as soon as she begins retelling

something for the thousanth time as though it just happened yesterday.....

As I have been trying to redefine my family dynamic that was warped and

manipulated by my mom, I realize that my dad was who she projected her past

issues on. When she divorced my dad, I became the lucky one that got her

emotional dumping. Now she is projecting on me and I am taking some hard

boundaries for the first time in 7 years and she is pitching a fit (i.e. today's

post " Preparing for the Worst... " )

You sound like you have done so much healing. I can relate to so much of your

post regarding your conversations with your nada and I applaud you for what you

are doing and how you are staying strong.

Thank you for sharing, it is helpful and validating to read!

> > >

> > > Thanks everyone for your thoughts and perspective. I got a smile at the

> > " grade " I got, too. Annie, you rock.

> > >

> > > Seriously though, it helps to share these conversations too. The ones

> > that feel like successes are often hard to share with normal friends. They

> > either recognize how mean nada is and focus on empathy; or they wonder what

> > I have done wrong to deserve such treatment. Both responses leave me

> > frustrated.

> > >

> > > It really helped to get affirmation here. I don't think I will ever

> > outgrow that need, because the first eighteen years of my life were spent

> > with little or no advocacy. Feeling like I was crazy.

> > >

> > > My nada is very stuck in the past. Imagine venting to your daughter about

> > a sibling (the daughter's aunt) who supposedly gave her mother hell when she

> > was a teenager. Wow. My therapist shared with me this: the coincidence of

> > the Time-Life book (from my own pre-teen years), my mother's stuck-ness on

> > my young adulthood and my mom's, reveal that my mom is reacting globally to

> > issues that are unresolved in HER teen years. When we looked at this

> > together, it actually made sense. My therapist pointed out the time when

> > Anita was making big news because of her position on gays. My

> > therapist began to suspect Anita herself was gay (which was why my therapist

> > thought was making global attacks on gays and was even willing to

> > ruin her career about it). Turns out no, Anita herself was not gay, but her

> > husband at the time had a gay private life. So, in other words, there is

> > SOMETHING that my mom is protecting by attacking me, my aunt... and anyone

> > else she knows who was not a perfect princess (it's a female thing) in their

> > young adult years. I am sick of it, and there seems to be nothing I can do

> > to stop it. But I may identify it next time, with a question. What drives me

> > crazy is having my feet held to the ashes of the past.

> > >

> > > Oh, and she called me the two days ago...joking with me as if I were a

> > child... about my hanging up on her (in the conversation I shared here this

> > weekend!) and was smilingly telling me I needed to grow up. I had to tell

> > her that I won't hang up the phone if she does not give me reason to. It's

> > up to her. I really did not know how to deal with the " growing up " part, I

> > got a bit defensive, but with a clear head about me. Then she went on to

> > tell me that she wanted to help me... I had to say, you are trying to

> > address a me that is in the past, and that is not helpful.

> > >

> > > She hung up the phone on me after awhile, I forget exactly why. Maybe

> > because I put her on speaker phone and the whole family could hear her

> > stupidity. She was so driven by whatever she wanted to accomplish on the

> > phone, that she called back AGAIN, to plead with me to put my son in a

> > private school. She feels I am imposing " integration " on him by having him

> > in public schools, which, where I live, are very diverse. Not lily white

> > like the ones I attended. She feels I am subjecting him to ... dangers...etc

> > etc... And I just did not argue that point.

> > >

> > > Again, the past is in view. Integration happened over forty years ago.

> > Today we are back to neighborhood schools...I did not even want to argue it

> > with my mom. And my husband was disgusted by her reference to minorities....

> > because again, I put her on speaker phone. I just can't deal with her voice

> > in my ear when she is working the story of her imagination on me...

> > >

> > > And, for the second time in one day she hung up on me. I am very very

> > sure she thinks that she hung up on me because I would not " allow " her to do

> > her job as a mom. Most parents say that their kids are their kids for life.

> > But when it comes to a parent that is " nada good " parent... the child has

> > had to cut the cord. And my nada doesn't get that either. She just sees me

> > as bad for cutting it. And I will always be a problem child because I did

> > so. She sees things differently for my brother, because, he is a boy and

> > boys are supposed to be independent from their mothers. In her book, I am

> > supposed to be the loving, caring, tolerant one.

> > >

> > > Good-bye to that claustrophobic, disempowering role!

> > >

> > > Best,

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My nada is completely stuck in the past. Every time she goes off on a rampage

she starts trying to punish me for things that happened 10 or 15 years ago.

It's ridiculous.

My grand-nada (the nada of the nada, if you will) was 14 when she had my nada.

My therapist had this theory that since my nada never had an adult parent model,

that her emotional development also halted around that age. I totally buy it.

She looks like a petulant adolescent every time she comes unhinged.

And Girlscout- that's an excellent point about the incest. My therapist

recommended a book to me years ago about it but I never got around to reading

it. Any recommendations on the subject?

[Guest guest]

>

> >

> >

It's possible. When I was in high school, much of the time, she regarded me as a

" friend " , but not in the " my daughter and I are close " sense of the word--she

would complain to me about the way that my sisters acted, as if I was supposed

to do something about it. The most disturbing part was the way in which she

seemed to not realize that we were her children, not coworkers or friends. And

sometimes she would want me to " back her up " on parenting decisions... and

became angry when I wouldn't. Honestly, I spent much of my life making sure that

my sisters were treated as equally as humanly possible, telling them that Mom

and Dad's fights weren't their fault, that Mom didn't mean it when she said " Who

cares about (enter sister's name here)? " , making sure they didn't watch things

that were inappropriate or buy things at the mall that Mom wouldn't let them

wear out of the house. I think part of it was that she wanted to co-parent with

someone who would listen to her, and I was a lot easier to control than my dad.

But I'm NOT a parent. I'm nineteen; I'm not ready to be ANYONE'S Mom, much less

my teenage sisters. I can't be an extension of her.

Point of story, it could be that nadas don't like the idea of us partnering with

other people when we should be *her* partner. Or she doesn't like us paying that

much attention to someone else. Or she feels like we have something she doesn't

have. Whatever the reason, it's not our job to convince our nadas otherwise--

we've just gotta brush that dirt off our shoulder. I know I can't get Nada to go

to therapy or care that she's hurting her kids and her husband. She's incredibly

high-functioning; I don't have a prayer. The best we can do is to take care of

ourselves and our own.

[Guest guest]

I think actually that the halted emotional development is characteristic of

BPDs, whether they had an adult parent or not. My grand-nada was 30 when she had

my nada (and my nada was 30 when she had me) and my nada seems to have 3 faces -

toddler, adolescent, and adult (she get's very lucid and reflective of her other

sides as " adult " , and will in fact admit to having a 3 yr old and a 17 version

of herself that she knows sometimes show).

>

> My nada is completely stuck in the past. Every time she goes off on a rampage

she starts trying to punish me for things that happened 10 or 15 years ago.

It's ridiculous.

>

> My grand-nada (the nada of the nada, if you will) was 14 when she had my nada.

My therapist had this theory that since my nada never had an adult parent model,

that her emotional development also halted around that age. I totally buy it.

She looks like a petulant adolescent every time she comes unhinged.

>

> And Girlscout- that's an excellent point about the incest. My therapist

recommended a book to me years ago about it but I never got around to reading

it. Any recommendations on the subject?

>

[Guest guest]

I can completely identify with that! Mine definitely ranges from toddler to

adolescent to adult (though she saves the adult self mainly for the public

world...)

Pretty impressive that yours identifies like that. Mine will occasionally admit

that she thinks she is crazy or that she feels like she's ruined my life. But

I'm pretty sure that in the end that's only so that she can make herself look

more pathetic.

[Guest guest]

YES!

>

> >

> >

> > My nada has hated all of my boyfriends. And has hated my husband

> > passionately for almost 11 years. I finally told her one day that I wasn't

> > interested in any of her relationship advice, given her 4 failed marriages

> > and bazillion loser boyfriends. I wanted to tell her that my husband is the

> > only reason I'm sane and patient enough to deal with her on a regular basis,

> > but I managed to restrain myself

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In response to the question about emotional incest. The question has been

rattling around in my head this past few days.

I thought the term " emotional incest " didn't fit because I am a girl child. But

really, my father is not the most emotionally available person. And I had to

teach him to reach out and give me physical contact as an adult. I initiated our

first hug when I was 21. So, I do declare that I met a lot of my nada's needs

for emotional connection. And for human contact. I think even that fact that I

had the guts to disagree with my nada (actually, I felt I had no choice... my

instincts were always to speak the truth to her once I got to be a certain

age--teenager). I think that is why she plays hard ball with me today. Because

she is resentful that I left home and am being authentic with other people who

don't mistreat me or abuse my confidences.

And her emotional incest shows up precisely in the conversations she wants so

much to initiate...about my teen and young adult sexual experimentation, which I

never did discuss with her. Suddenly today, she wants to reclaim that old lost

territory. And I am simply disgusted about it, and very protective of my

18-year-old self, who really knew nothing about the world and men. Thanks to

nada.

Best,

[Guest guest]

>

> In response to the question about emotional incest. The question has been

rattling around in my head this past few days.

>

> I thought the term " emotional incest " didn't fit because I am a girl child.

But really, my father is not the most emotionally available person. And I had to

teach him to reach out and give me physical contact as an adult. I initiated our

first hug when I was 21. So, I do declare that I met a lot of my nada's needs

for emotional connection. And for human contact. I think even that fact that I

had the guts to disagree with my nada (actually, I felt I had no choice... my

instincts were always to speak the truth to her once I got to be a certain

age--teenager). I think that is why she plays hard ball with me today. Because

she is resentful that I left home and am being authentic with other people who

don't mistreat me or abuse my confidences.

>

> And her emotional incest shows up precisely in the conversations she wants so

much to initiate...about my teen and young adult sexual experimentation, which I

never did discuss with her. Suddenly today, she wants to reclaim that old lost

territory. And I am simply disgusted about it, and very protective of my

18-year-old self, who really knew nothing about the world and men. Thanks to

nada.

>

> Best,

>

>