Robbed by expectations

[Guest guest]

Was reading a book on the Civil War and it had some references to

soldiers sending home money to help their mothers and sisters. It made

me remember how my own Nada had begun the expectations that I support

her from the time I was a young teenager working while still in high

school. When I entered the Navy, she had fully built up the expectation

that my purpose in doing so was to send her my pay twice a month.

While in recruit training, I sent home most of my pay to avoid possible

theft. My instructions to my mom were to put it in my savings account

for me, but (FOOL! Stop don t say it! ) if she was short one week and

needed to get a little out of it to supplement her income go ahead.

Just don t wipe me out, I ll need that money to travel to Great Lakes

after I come home.

You can see this coming, can t you? When I got home after 2 months in

boot camp, I asked about my money. She hemed and hawed and told me how

tough she had it and how many expenses she had ( she was living with HER

mother and paying her nothing). She finally admitted I didnt have a red

cent left. I was broke and had 2 weeks of leave, an 8 hour drive to my

next duty station ahead of me, no way to take my girl friend out or

anything.

I had to cut my leave short, and get an emergency loan from the Red

Cross for stranded servicemen ( which I had to pay back).

She robbed me , not only of my money, but emotionally of the ability ,

later in her life, to say Hey, I think I ll send my mom X dollars a

month to help her out, or send her money here and there. I was so

resentful of the idea, for she felt I was a horrible son every day that

I was NOT supporting her. Never mind the fact I was married and raising

children on a serviceman s salary.

I felt guilty that I did not send her money, and at the same time

resentful that I was expected to. So if i did, I was fulfilling a duty,

not doing something kind. If I didn t , I was a horrible asshole of a

son.

God, that makes me so mad. There was no way to win.

Doug

[Guest guest]

Wow Doug!

Just wow!

You know, I felt into my late 20s more like a story book Cinderalla than a

person. my nada raised me with the expectation that I would take care of her

the rest of her life. She had people teach me to clean, to cook her favorite

foods and on and on. Imagine her surprise when, at age 28, I just decided to

never talk to her again. I like to do that sometimes. Imagine how she felt

when I decided the answer to her demand to give her my life would be no.

But I never sent her my pay

She did get caught robbing my brother's savings account when we were in

elementary school.

>

>

>

> Was reading a book on the Civil War and it had some references to

> soldiers sending home money to help their mothers and sisters. It made

> me remember how my own Nada had begun the expectations that I support

> her from the time I was a young teenager working while still in high

> school. When I entered the Navy, she had fully built up the expectation

> that my purpose in doing so was to send her my pay twice a month.

>

> While in recruit training, I sent home most of my pay to avoid possible

> theft. My instructions to my mom were to put it in my savings account

> for me, but (FOOL! Stop don t say it! ) if she was short one week and

> needed to get a little out of it to supplement her income go ahead.

> Just don t wipe me out, I ll need that money to travel to Great Lakes

> after I come home.

>

> You can see this coming, can t you? When I got home after 2 months in

> boot camp, I asked about my money. She hemed and hawed and told me how

> tough she had it and how many expenses she had ( she was living with HER

> mother and paying her nothing). She finally admitted I didnt have a red

> cent left. I was broke and had 2 weeks of leave, an 8 hour drive to my

> next duty station ahead of me, no way to take my girl friend out or

> anything.

>

> I had to cut my leave short, and get an emergency loan from the Red

> Cross for stranded servicemen ( which I had to pay back).

>

> She robbed me , not only of my money, but emotionally of the ability ,

> later in her life, to say Hey, I think I ll send my mom X dollars a

> month to help her out, or send her money here and there. I was so

> resentful of the idea, for she felt I was a horrible son every day that

> I was NOT supporting her. Never mind the fact I was married and raising

> children on a serviceman s salary.

>

> I felt guilty that I did not send her money, and at the same time

> resentful that I was expected to. So if i did, I was fulfilling a duty,

> not doing something kind. If I didn t , I was a horrible asshole of a

> son.

>

> God, that makes me so mad. There was no way to win.

>

> Doug

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>She robbed me , not only of my money, but emotionally of the ability ,later in

her life, to say Hey, I think I ll send my mom X dollars a

month to help her out, or send her money here and there.

Oh yeah Doug, this rings a huge bell. My nada has set up situations where I've

been forced to spend money to bail her out or else really bad stuff would

happen, so bad that I couldn't allow it to happen to her. Like losing her home,

homelessness, etc. While it's not been a regular thing, her entitlement to me

acting as her safety net has *absolutely* squelched a lot of the natural

generosity I might have had towards her. Every now and then when I am generous,

I often regret it because rather than her seeing it as something to be grateful

for it just sets the bar higher as to what is now " expected " of me. So end

result...I'm not as generous as I would have been and in the end maybe I am

selfish, but only in self-defense.

Thanks for bringing this up...sorry about your experiences in the service. Your

nada showed the definition of waify entitlement.

>

>

> Was reading a book on the Civil War and it had some references to

> soldiers sending home money to help their mothers and sisters. It made

> me remember how my own Nada had begun the expectations that I support

> her from the time I was a young teenager working while still in high

> school. When I entered the Navy, she had fully built up the expectation

> that my purpose in doing so was to send her my pay twice a month.

>

> While in recruit training, I sent home most of my pay to avoid possible

> theft. My instructions to my mom were to put it in my savings account

> for me, but (FOOL! Stop don t say it! ) if she was short one week and

> needed to get a little out of it to supplement her income go ahead.

> Just don t wipe me out, I ll need that money to travel to Great Lakes

> after I come home.

>

> You can see this coming, can t you? When I got home after 2 months in

> boot camp, I asked about my money. She hemed and hawed and told me how

> tough she had it and how many expenses she had ( she was living with HER

> mother and paying her nothing). She finally admitted I didnt have a red

> cent left. I was broke and had 2 weeks of leave, an 8 hour drive to my

> next duty station ahead of me, no way to take my girl friend out or

> anything.

>

> I had to cut my leave short, and get an emergency loan from the Red

> Cross for stranded servicemen ( which I had to pay back).

>

> She robbed me , not only of my money, but emotionally of the ability ,

> later in her life, to say Hey, I think I ll send my mom X dollars a

> month to help her out, or send her money here and there. I was so

> resentful of the idea, for she felt I was a horrible son every day that

> I was NOT supporting her. Never mind the fact I was married and raising

> children on a serviceman s salary.

>

> I felt guilty that I did not send her money, and at the same time

> resentful that I was expected to. So if i did, I was fulfilling a duty,

> not doing something kind. If I didn t , I was a horrible asshole of a

> son.

>

> God, that makes me so mad. There was no way to win.

>

>

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

What a crazy story, Doug! Ugh!! So frustrating and infuriating reading it! And

you're right, she hoovered you and guilted you after the fact anyway.

BPs seem to be freakin' misers (My nada's salary is more than my sister's, yet

she acts like she has no money and that my sister makes sooo much more!)!

I don't know what it is. They must feel the sense of entitlement to others'

money. They talk about how poor they are, but somehow manage to spend tons of

money on expensive items for themselves! Nadas in particular seem to think that

since they gave their children LIFE then the children must pay them back for it

for the rest of their lives.

Craziness.

- Cvidzz

>

>

> Was reading a book on the Civil War and it had some references to

> soldiers sending home money to help their mothers and sisters. It made

> me remember how my own Nada had begun the expectations that I support

> her from the time I was a young teenager working while still in high

> school. When I entered the Navy, she had fully built up the expectation

> that my purpose in doing so was to send her my pay twice a month.

>

> While in recruit training, I sent home most of my pay to avoid possible

> theft. My instructions to my mom were to put it in my savings account

> for me, but (FOOL! Stop don t say it! ) if she was short one week and

> needed to get a little out of it to supplement her income go ahead.

> Just don t wipe me out, I ll need that money to travel to Great Lakes

> after I come home.

>

> You can see this coming, can t you? When I got home after 2 months in

> boot camp, I asked about my money. She hemed and hawed and told me how

> tough she had it and how many expenses she had ( she was living with HER

> mother and paying her nothing). She finally admitted I didnt have a red

> cent left. I was broke and had 2 weeks of leave, an 8 hour drive to my

> next duty station ahead of me, no way to take my girl friend out or

> anything.

>

> I had to cut my leave short, and get an emergency loan from the Red

> Cross for stranded servicemen ( which I had to pay back).

>

> She robbed me , not only of my money, but emotionally of the ability ,

> later in her life, to say Hey, I think I ll send my mom X dollars a

> month to help her out, or send her money here and there. I was so

> resentful of the idea, for she felt I was a horrible son every day that

> I was NOT supporting her. Never mind the fact I was married and raising

> children on a serviceman s salary.

>

> I felt guilty that I did not send her money, and at the same time

> resentful that I was expected to. So if i did, I was fulfilling a duty,

> not doing something kind. If I didn t , I was a horrible asshole of a

> son.

>

> God, that makes me so mad. There was no way to win.

>

>

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

This kind of expectation of financial support does seem to crop up in BP

families. Nada always raged on about " After all I've been through, I shouldn't

have to work! I raised the kids by myself, I clean the house, I've been trapped

in the house for years and years and I shouldn't have to go get a job! " My

grandfather (who sexually abused nada and I think is in part responsible for the

BPD) would say things like, " When the kids get older they should buy you a car! "

Yeah, I'm going to end up on skid row living out of a little tin cup myself.

Come to think of it, grandfather was subject to uncontrollable rages, beating

the kids, and was wildly sexually inappropriate. I'm beginning to think he is

BPD himself.

Doug, I'm so sorry you went through all that.

--.

[Guest guest]

Oh yea, that was another theme. My insides were so torn up by giving

birth, ( to me and my siblings, who died in infancy) they re about to

fall out of me. Just what you want to hear, yes?

Nada was not a miser, but she was a hoarder. In money matters, she was

a spendthrift. She made , in retirement, 3 times what her OLDER sister

makes, ( she is 76 and still working 3 days a week) but was always

crying poverty. Nothing was ever enough! She couldnt wait to stop

working. She had opportunities to do so, but would not do any job but

one that made her the center of attention or a big shot somehow.

One of her NADA phrases that drove me nuts was " I just decided to do

something for ME. " Whereupon she would blow money she couldnt afford

for a bottle of Shalimar, or some other extravagance. Her conciet and

delusion was that she was just " such a giver " that she gave all her

money away. In fact, she often blew it or was taken by strangers, or

gave something that let her glow about how generous she was, then come

to someone she was about to Hoover and complain that she could nt pay

her bills!

I finally got to the place where I didnt ever tell her anything about

what I made. I used to think she would celebrate me getting a good job

or a raise or a bonus. Truth? If she knew I had a dollar she would

ask me for a buck and a half. I fell into the pattern of playing

poverty with her to avoid her mooching.

Isnt that awful? I came to view my own mother as a mooch. But she was.

She lived with my grandmother from the time I was in 10th grade till 4

years after I was out on my own, and never helped her with bills or

groceries. She in fact married a second time , in her late 30s, while

living with her mom, to a man who was as useless and needy as she was,

had no visible means of support, and moved him in with her and grandma.

Despite years of mooching, she bitterly hated her mom till her death.

You can t win with these people.

Doug

>

> What a crazy story, Doug! Ugh!! So frustrating and infuriating reading

it! And you're right, she hoovered you and guilted you after the fact

anyway.

>

> BPs seem to be freakin' misers (My nada's salary is more than my

sister's, yet she acts like she has no money and that my sister makes

sooo much more!)!

> I don't know what it is. They must feel the sense of entitlement to

others' money. They talk about how poor they are, but somehow manage to

spend tons of money on expensive items for themselves! Nadas in

particular seem to think that since they gave their children LIFE then

the children must pay them back for it for the rest of their lives.

>

> Craziness.

>

> - Cvidzz

[Guest guest]

OMG! " A little something just for me " and " I never get anything new " were my

nada's two favorite catchphrases, and she used them every single time we set

foot in a store to justify the purchase of something that was usually stupid

that we couldn't afford. If I needed to get socks for school, you could be sure

that she would pick up " a little something just for me " while we were at the

store. Arrrggghh.

> >

> > What a crazy story, Doug! Ugh!! So frustrating and infuriating reading

> it! And you're right, she hoovered you and guilted you after the fact

> anyway.

> >

> > BPs seem to be freakin' misers (My nada's salary is more than my

> sister's, yet she acts like she has no money and that my sister makes

> sooo much more!)!

> > I don't know what it is. They must feel the sense of entitlement to

> others' money. They talk about how poor they are, but somehow manage to

> spend tons of money on expensive items for themselves! Nadas in

> particular seem to think that since they gave their children LIFE then

> the children must pay them back for it for the rest of their lives.

> >

> > Craziness.

> >

> > - Cvidzz

>

[Guest guest]

Holy ShaZam Kids!

Yep... another NADA MOMENT!

I missed this thread while dealing with my own stuff here so I " m late chiming

in... but YOU BETCHA! ... it's all the same.

The " I'm a giver " is the one that slays me the most. Really? SNORT!

Lynnette

> > >

> > > What a crazy story, Doug! Ugh!! So frustrating and infuriating reading

> > it! And you're right, she hoovered you and guilted you after the fact

> > anyway.

> > >

> > > BPs seem to be freakin' misers (My nada's salary is more than my

> > sister's, yet she acts like she has no money and that my sister makes

> > sooo much more!)!

> > > I don't know what it is. They must feel the sense of entitlement to

> > others' money. They talk about how poor they are, but somehow manage to

> > spend tons of money on expensive items for themselves! Nadas in

> > particular seem to think that since they gave their children LIFE then

> > the children must pay them back for it for the rest of their lives.

> > >

> > > Craziness.

> > >

> > > - Cvidzz

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yep. My nada did this too. She was bigger on borrowing money and paying it

back with numerous, small, post-dated checks. She was also good for writing

bad checks and covering them at the last minute. She once borrowed $900

from me that was for my upcoming wedding and paying the last of it back just

weeks before the wedding. I was terrified that she would not come through.

She also tried to ask people to borrow money when she knows that the person

will not ask to be paid back. The money almost always goes to her personal

indulgences and the bills are still left unpaid(up until the point that she

faces legal action).

BB

[Guest guest]

SNORT indeed! I like the phrase NADA Moment!

Doug

> > > >

> > > > What a crazy story, Doug! Ugh!! So frustrating and infuriating

reading

> > > it! And you're right, she hoovered you and guilted you after the

fact

> > > anyway.

> > > >

> > > > BPs seem to be freakin' misers (My nada's salary is more than my

> > > sister's, yet she acts like she has no money and that my sister

makes

> > > sooo much more!)!

> > > > I don't know what it is. They must feel the sense of entitlement

to

> > > others' money. They talk about how poor they are, but somehow

manage to

> > > spend tons of money on expensive items for themselves! Nadas in

> > > particular seem to think that since they gave their children LIFE

then

> > > the children must pay them back for it for the rest of their

lives.

> > > >

> > > > Craziness.

> > > >

> > > > - Cvidzz

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yep. My mom s main criteria for selecting any vendor was " He s so good

to work with me. Which meant, he ll let me carry a tab. Not competant,

not reliable, not cheap, but he ll let me charge everything.

and of course, never pay for it.

The guy who used to work on her car all the time had a tab of over 1000

on her when she died. Yet she would pay him 10 bucks here and there as

the notion took her. He didnt even know her address or phone number.

Her neice, who is also , I think, BP, took it upon herself to go tell

him when mom died. So he gave her a copy of the bill to bring to me.

I was furious. I said to her, L, do you have the 100o bucks to pay this

man? If he didnt keep any better records and gave her that much credit,

it is his bad move. Now this is one more slice out of the pie for me to

deal with in her estate. It is up to him to find out she is dead, and

file a claim on the estate. Not YOU. You are not settling her estate or

paying her bills so from now on keep your F ing mouth shut!

Little witch!

He did NOT get all he had out to her, there wasnt enough there.

Curioulsy, he just had to move out of his building. He was not paying

his rent!

How do these people find each other?

Doug

>

> Yep. My nada did this too. She was bigger on borrowing money and

paying it

> back with numerous, small, post-dated checks. She was also good for

writing

> bad checks and covering them at the last minute. She once borrowed

$900

> from me that was for my upcoming wedding and paying the last of it

back just

> weeks before the wedding. I was terrified that she would not come

through.

> She also tried to ask people to borrow money when she knows that the

person

> will not ask to be paid back. The money almost always goes to her

personal

> indulgences and the bills are still left unpaid(up until the point

that she

> faces legal action).

>

> BB

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" How do these people find eachother? "

Oh, years of therapy finally answered THAT Q for me... " Normal people won't fill

the BPD's outlandish needs for long... but there will always be somebody who

will... usually a NPD sort. So while the BPD won't get their needs filled from

YOU... they sure as H will keep shopping til they do. THEIR NEEDS WON'T GO

UNFULFILLED. "

I think online dating services are a breeding ground for them. The worst

'fillers' of Nada are all from Match.com. Men with nothing else to do but to

lavish her with (apparent) sole attention, stories, beautiful words, gifts, etc.

Usually there is a " horrible wife who does'nt understand HIM " somewhere in the

background too. She's his saviour. She becomes (in her mind) their sun and she

basks in their constant adoration. She can play hippy-girl (at 63), waif,

Queen, misunderstood/unappreciated mother/grandmother VICTIM, etc. And there is

noone to dispute her claims. Then when she finally meets the man, she can

giggle, be coy, flip her hair, drink and fall into bed. That lasts for a few

months. Then on to the next one.

The same behaviours happen with people like the mechanic you're speaking of...

God only knows what she did for him...but there was some exchange there... you

can bet on it!

Lynnette

> >

> > Yep. My nada did this too. She was bigger on borrowing money and

> paying it

> > back with numerous, small, post-dated checks. She was also good for

> writing

> > bad checks and covering them at the last minute. She once borrowed

> $900

> > from me that was for my upcoming wedding and paying the last of it

> back just

> > weeks before the wedding. I was terrified that she would not come

> through.

> > She also tried to ask people to borrow money when she knows that the

> person

> > will not ask to be paid back. The money almost always goes to her

> personal

> > indulgences and the bills are still left unpaid(up until the point

> that she

> > faces legal action).

> >

> > BB

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

How do you get out of those kinds of relationships? I'm trying to learn.

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 8:14 AM, yp_lynnette_cameron_park <

h_l_maston@...> wrote:

>

>

> " How do these people find eachother? "

>

> Oh, years of therapy finally answered THAT Q for me... " Normal people won't

> fill the BPD's outlandish needs for long... but there will always be

> somebody who will... usually a NPD sort. So while the BPD won't get their

> needs filled from YOU... they sure as H will keep shopping til they do.

> THEIR NEEDS WON'T GO UNFULFILLED. "

>

> I think online dating services are a breeding ground for them. The worst

> 'fillers' of Nada are all from Match.com. Men with nothing else to do but to

> lavish her with (apparent) sole attention, stories, beautiful words, gifts,

> etc. Usually there is a " horrible wife who does'nt understand HIM " somewhere

> in the background too. She's his saviour. She becomes (in her mind) their

> sun and she basks in their constant adoration. She can play hippy-girl (at

> 63), waif, Queen, misunderstood/unappreciated mother/grandmother VICTIM,

> etc. And there is noone to dispute her claims. Then when she finally meets

> the man, she can giggle, be coy, flip her hair, drink and fall into bed.

> That lasts for a few months. Then on to the next one.

>

> The same behaviours happen with people like the mechanic you're speaking

> of... God only knows what she did for him...but there was some exchange

> there... you can bet on it!

>

> Lynnette

>

>

> > >

> > > Yep. My nada did this too. She was bigger on borrowing money and

> > paying it

> > > back with numerous, small, post-dated checks. She was also good for

> > writing

> > > bad checks and covering them at the last minute. She once borrowed

> > $900

> > > from me that was for my upcoming wedding and paying the last of it

> > back just

> > > weeks before the wedding. I was terrified that she would not come

> > through.

> > > She also tried to ask people to borrow money when she knows that the

> > person

> > > will not ask to be paid back. The money almost always goes to her

> > personal

> > > indulgences and the bills are still left unpaid(up until the point

> > that she

> > > faces legal action).

> > >

> > > BB

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I've used this thought process over the last couple of years cause, if you

remember, I was over my head in a NPD relationship for a long time...

Here is MY big test: Does it cost me to love this person?

That's it... I shouldn't have to pay to love or be loved by someone. There are

lots of ways we pay: emotionally, spiritually, psychologically, financially...

etc. So does it cost me something? It never should. Ever.

I will only be with someone that fills me... and that I take supreme joy and

light when I fill them. When both people are in harmony, there is balance....

otherwise, I love me too much anymore to not be loved as much in return.

Lynnette

> > > >

> > > > Yep. My nada did this too. She was bigger on borrowing money and

> > > paying it

> > > > back with numerous, small, post-dated checks. She was also good for

> > > writing

> > > > bad checks and covering them at the last minute. She once borrowed

> > > $900

> > > > from me that was for my upcoming wedding and paying the last of it

> > > back just

> > > > weeks before the wedding. I was terrified that she would not come

> > > through.

> > > > She also tried to ask people to borrow money when she knows that the

> > > person

> > > > will not ask to be paid back. The money almost always goes to her

> > > personal

> > > > indulgences and the bills are still left unpaid(up until the point

> > > that she

> > > > faces legal action).

> > > >

> > > > BB

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >