Black & White fleas - I hate them!

[Guest guest]

I grew up with a black and white thinking dad AND mom.

It is SO SO hard to shake that warped view of thinking, especially with

relationships. Growing up, if someone pissed off my dad or mom, the solution was

90% of the time to cut them out of their life and never speak to them again.

Which made running into these folks in town awkward. So I learned that when

someone upsets you, shut them out and do whatever you can to avoid awkward

situations.

I just HATE that cutting people off is my knee-jerk instinct. Fine, you wanna

hurt my feelings - screw you. Delete. It takes a lot of self-control to stop

myself, get over the emotion, and then think through the most logical course of

action to resolve a conflict.

But what I hate the most is that a lot of the time, I knee jerk before I get out

my self-control and use my logical brain. Dear Lord I want to know how to get

over that. It is such an immature coping mechanism.

[Guest guest]

I could use some help because I just cut someone out cold turkey. He was my

friend. He was always talking about cheating on his girlfriend. One time we

were chatting over the computer and I told him to watch out because if his

girlfriend found out she might leave him. The next day he froze me out. I

finally reached him and he told me he was mad at me but he wouldn't tell me

why. fifteen minutes later he emailed me that I " judged " him. So I replied

that this was the second time he was playing the victim to me. He didn't

respond for a day. Then he started trying to contact me feverishly. I

realized that his behavior had been borderline. I'm leaving a lot out but my

question to all of you is: was there a way to stay friends? Should I have

tried to keep it friendly somehow? Basically the scales fell from my eyes

and I saw that " my friend " had some sort of agenda. Whenever someone casts

themselves as the victim and me as the abuser, I know there's something very

messed up there.

I would really appreciate responses if it is at all possible.

>

>

> I grew up with a black and white thinking dad AND mom.

>

> It is SO SO hard to shake that warped view of thinking, especially with

> relationships. Growing up, if someone pissed off my dad or mom, the solution

> was 90% of the time to cut them out of their life and never speak to them

> again. Which made running into these folks in town awkward. So I learned

> that when someone upsets you, shut them out and do whatever you can to avoid

> awkward situations.

>

> I just HATE that cutting people off is my knee-jerk instinct. Fine, you

> wanna hurt my feelings - screw you. Delete. It takes a lot of self-control

> to stop myself, get over the emotion, and then think through the most

> logical course of action to resolve a conflict.

>

> But what I hate the most is that a lot of the time, I knee jerk before I

> get out my self-control and use my logical brain. Dear Lord I want to know

> how to get over that. It is such an immature coping mechanism.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Seems to me there are two different, separate items you've brought up as though

they are the same thing AND are negative, and I find that a little confusing.

One item you mentioned is having a " knee-jerk " reaction, which seems to me to be

the same as " triggering " . " Triggering " is when you have little or zero

conscious control over a response or reaction, sort of the emotional equivalent

of yowling when you hit your thumb with a hammer. Hitting your thumb (the

" trigger " ) bypasses your conscious thought processes (the executive center of

your brain) and you just *automatically* react to the PAIN by

screeching/crying/cursing, etc.

Training ourselves to be more conscious and aware of things that emotionally

trigger us so that we can " stay in the moment " and take the time to think about

a good way to respond instead of just automatically reacting is, in my opinion,

a very GOOD thing.

I think us KOs can learn to do this; things like " dialectical behavioral

therapy " help those with bpd learn to be more self-aware and to self-monitor,

so I think non-pd people with " fleas " can learn to increase our " executive

function " too.

The other item you mentioned is " No Contact " . While I agree that automatically

going " No Contact " as a " knee jerk " or " trigger " reaction probably isn't the

healthiest way to deal with a problem, I disagree that *consciously choosing* to

go " No Contact " is in and of itself a bad thing.

I think " No Contact " is " morally neutral " , so to speak.

I personally do not feel that if you must choose to go " No Contact " with someone

as a kind of last resort, either temporarily or permanently, then, that is

sometimes the only option a person has to protect himself or herself from

further abuse. And simply choosing to protect yourself from an abusive person

does not make you either a good person or a bad person. Its neutral.

Going " No Contact " with a hostile, malicious person who *wants* to hurt you (or

" can't help herself " from hurting you) and has shown a consistent pattern of

actively toxic, destructive behaviors toward you, over and over and over

again... choosing No Contact with such an individual *does not hurt anyone.*

You, the target of the abuse, are not " turning into " an abuser just because you

remove yourself *from* an abuser.

So, I just wanted to clarify that point for myself. I agree that allowing

ourselves to be buffeted about by subconscious " trigger " words or behaviors

isn't so good, and can even have negative consequences. But I disagree that

simply choosing to withdraw from or end an abusive relationship by initiating No

Contact is inherently " bad. "

-Annie

>

> I grew up with a black and white thinking dad AND mom.

>

> It is SO SO hard to shake that warped view of thinking, especially with

relationships. Growing up, if someone pissed off my dad or mom, the solution was

90% of the time to cut them out of their life and never speak to them again.

Which made running into these folks in town awkward. So I learned that when

someone upsets you, shut them out and do whatever you can to avoid awkward

situations.

>

> I just HATE that cutting people off is my knee-jerk instinct. Fine, you wanna

hurt my feelings - screw you. Delete. It takes a lot of self-control to stop

myself, get over the emotion, and then think through the most logical course of

action to resolve a conflict.

>

> But what I hate the most is that a lot of the time, I knee jerk before I get

out my self-control and use my logical brain. Dear Lord I want to know how to

get over that. It is such an immature coping mechanism.

>

[Guest guest]

This is a very personal matter, and it all boils down to your own feelings about

morality and friendship.

For myself, I don't think I could be friends with someone whose moral values are

extremely different than mine. I would not respect them.

For example, if a friend of mine shared with me that she was cheating on her

husband (or vice-versa: if the husband shared with me that he was cheating on

his wife) and if I knew the couple well *and considered both of them to be my

friends* then, I'd be too shocked and appalled to continue in a friendship with

someone that I thought was acting in a reprehensible, underhanded way toward an

innocent party. If you dislike someone enough to cheat on them, then get a

freaking divorce or break up with them; don't *use* them, that's morally

reprehensible to me.

So, its totally your call about what you can and can't live with, seems to me.

-Annie

>

> >

> >

> > I grew up with a black and white thinking dad AND mom.

> >

> > It is SO SO hard to shake that warped view of thinking, especially with

> > relationships. Growing up, if someone pissed off my dad or mom, the solution

> > was 90% of the time to cut them out of their life and never speak to them

> > again. Which made running into these folks in town awkward. So I learned

> > that when someone upsets you, shut them out and do whatever you can to avoid

> > awkward situations.

> >

> > I just HATE that cutting people off is my knee-jerk instinct. Fine, you

> > wanna hurt my feelings - screw you. Delete. It takes a lot of self-control

> > to stop myself, get over the emotion, and then think through the most

> > logical course of action to resolve a conflict.

> >

> > But what I hate the most is that a lot of the time, I knee jerk before I

> > get out my self-control and use my logical brain. Dear Lord I want to know

> > how to get over that. It is such an immature coping mechanism.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Big sis,

your post is so, so timely for me. I also have to consciously catch myself and

stop from doing it.

it stinks.

My situation this week is my sister in law. She is a classic, textbook rescuer.

The oldest of 5 children, her mother would frequently leave her in charge of her

younger siblings. She still over-cares for them, imo, and rescues these

siblings, all of whom have addictive behaviors. What I'm leading up to is she

is SO freaking controlling, and this comes out when we see her on holidays, like

this coming weekend.

I have to stop making her so all-bad in my eyes. Obviously she has complex

issues that I know nothing about but it pisses me off that she takes over

everything (the menu/planning/everything) and doesn't want anyone else's input.

My husband and I hijacked Thanksgiving last year before she could and she sulked

the whole evening.

Anyway, Big Sis, I'm sorry I've blabbed here; all of that to say, I hear ya!!

Both of my parents were very much that way. I was all good and my brother all

bad. Horrible. And they did it with their friends (the 2 they had) and family.

My mother has done that with her extended family and now I highly doubt I will

ever have a relationship with them, thanks to all the bad blood.

I woud love some coping tips for this kind of thinking, this black/white, all

good/all bad stuff. I can use it!!

Fiona

[Guest guest]

You said this so perfectly. I too, hate black & white thinking.

If someone is rude or nasty to me, I write them off. Its like they've been

crossed of an imaginary list of people worth acknowledging. I will avoid talking

to them at all cost, because when I do, I'm just nasty to them. I actually

notice that I can not make eye contect with people I've written off, it gives me

so much anxiety.

Or if I percieve that someone has wronged me, I just cut them off. I wish I coud

go back and change that, because I've lost a lot of good friends along the way,

that were just people that make mistakes. Most of them, had I just told them

about " the wronging " we could have worked it out.

It really hurts to think of all the good people I let slip out of my life.

I also assume everyone else thinks in black & white. If I do something wrong in

a friendship, I assume they hate me. I will stop talking to them, " knowing " they

are done with me. I ran into an old friend recently and they were very pleasant,

but I feel so awkward " knowing " they hated me because it was my mistake / wrong

doing that " ended " the friendship.

Since no one is perfect, one of us is bound to do something to hurt the other,

and I see that as the ending point of a friendship.

>

> I grew up with a black and white thinking dad AND mom.

>

> It is SO SO hard to shake that warped view of thinking, especially with

relationships. Growing up, if someone pissed off my dad or mom, the solution was

90% of the time to cut them out of their life and never speak to them again.

Which made running into these folks in town awkward. So I learned that when

someone upsets you, shut them out and do whatever you can to avoid awkward

situations.

>

> I just HATE that cutting people off is my knee-jerk instinct. Fine, you wanna

hurt my feelings - screw you. Delete. It takes a lot of self-control to stop

myself, get over the emotion, and then think through the most logical course of

action to resolve a conflict.

>

> But what I hate the most is that a lot of the time, I knee jerk before I get

out my self-control and use my logical brain. Dear Lord I want to know how to

get over that. It is such an immature coping mechanism.

>

[Guest guest]

Annie,

Thanks so much for your response. I really appreciate it. This " friend "

keeps contacting me and I've been deleting his emails. I feel so guilty

about it. I don't know how to not just dump him but that's what I'm doing. I

feel like he's borderline and this is the last lose/lose scenario. He's put

me in several so what can you do? Thanks again.

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 12:06 AM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> This is a very personal matter, and it all boils down to your own feelings

> about morality and friendship.

>

> For myself, I don't think I could be friends with someone whose moral

> values are extremely different than mine. I would not respect them.

>

> For example, if a friend of mine shared with me that she was cheating on

> her husband (or vice-versa: if the husband shared with me that he was

> cheating on his wife) and if I knew the couple well *and considered both of

> them to be my friends* then, I'd be too shocked and appalled to continue in

> a friendship with someone that I thought was acting in a reprehensible,

> underhanded way toward an innocent party. If you dislike someone enough to

> cheat on them, then get a freaking divorce or break up with them; don't

> *use* them, that's morally reprehensible to me.

>

> So, its totally your call about what you can and can't live with, seems to

> me.

>

> -Annie

>

>

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > I grew up with a black and white thinking dad AND mom.

> > >

> > > It is SO SO hard to shake that warped view of thinking, especially with

> > > relationships. Growing up, if someone pissed off my dad or mom, the

> solution

> > > was 90% of the time to cut them out of their life and never speak to

> them

> > > again. Which made running into these folks in town awkward. So I

> learned

> > > that when someone upsets you, shut them out and do whatever you can to

> avoid

> > > awkward situations.

> > >

> > > I just HATE that cutting people off is my knee-jerk instinct. Fine, you

> > > wanna hurt my feelings - screw you. Delete. It takes a lot of

> self-control

> > > to stop myself, get over the emotion, and then think through the most

> > > logical course of action to resolve a conflict.

> > >

> > > But what I hate the most is that a lot of the time, I knee jerk before

> I

> > > get out my self-control and use my logical brain. Dear Lord I want to

> know

> > > how to get over that. It is such an immature coping mechanism.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >