Asking for advice about Dad

[Guest guest]

It's been a while since I posted here. My father is married to my

stepnada--they've been together since I was about 14 or 15. I've been NC or LC

for many years with them now, which isn't too difficult because they live 2000

miles away. Dad flew out to visit my family 1 1/2 years ago and asked me to " try

again " to have a relationship with stepnada because he missed us so much. I

tried, but having a relationship with stepnada is impossible, for reasons that I

know you all understand. However, I've been calling dad more frequently--maybe

once every week or two--just to stay in touch. He called at Christmas, tearful

and saying how much he misses us. Last week when we talked, he said he's about

had a nervous breakdown because he misses my brother and me. Well, my brother

and I are getting our families together this summer, and two days ago bro called

dad to invite him to join us. Bro has two little boys and Dad has never met the

youngest. Dad said sure, good idea, he'd do that. Today we get a letter from

dad. You can read part of it below:

" For a variety of reasons our relationships have been less than ideal over the

years since my divorce. Now for another variety of reasons I have the feeling

that both of you are making a concerted effort to bridge the years and rekindle

what was fractured in the past. ly in my opinion that seems to me to be an

unworkable plan. First of all, all three of us have formed our own web of

relationships and family ties which are totally separate. Second, both of you

need to put a maximum amount of effort into your individual families. Third, I

have never been a gregarious individual and find as I age that the tendency to

just be content being in touch with people as needed is about my limit of

interest. The above is not to say that I do not love the two of you. You know

that I do and always will. "

This letter is so at odds with what he has told me on the phone recently. Also,

Dad goes fishing for 2 weeks out of every summer with stepnada's son--without

stepnada. I still haven't found the opportunity to tell him about BPD because

he's so far away and it's a conversation I want to have in person with him

(where I will be able to hand him some reading materials like SWOE privately.

Stepnada controls everything, gets all the mail, reads all the email, etc.) I

think he might have a totally different take on the whole situation if he

knew--be more willing to set some boundaries with stepnada. I don't feel right

about saying " NC is fine with me, Dad, it's your choice " until after we've had

an honest conversation about BPD. I feel like I'm abandoning him to the wolves.

I would love advice about how to handle the conversation, whether to do it over

the phone, what to say. And I'd love to hear your experiences about how the

other party handled it--I guess I'd like to know how Dad is likely to respond.

Thanks!

Jill

[Guest guest]

Jill,

Whatever you decide to do, you're not abandoning him to the

wolves. He's an adult. If it is his choice to be with the

wolves, that's his responsibility, not yours. Given the

difference between your phone conversations and the letter, I'd

guess that your step-nada talked him into writing the letter,

possibly even telling him what to write. She probably feels

threatened by his attempts to renew his relationship with you

and your brother. It isn't clear to me from the part of the

letter you quote whether it says he intends to cut off all

contact with you or whether he just doesn't want to come to your

family get together or otherwise meet in person. If the latter,

that leaves you some room to work with the situation.

If he really intends to go NC, I don't see that you have much

choice in the matter. Continuing to try to contact someone who

has said he doesn't want to have contact is not appropriate, at

least not without a much stronger reason. Whether you feel like

saying it that it is fine or not, if he decides not to have

contact, it really is his choice to do so. Staying in contact

requires consent from both parties, not just one. If he is

going to continue with the phone calls, you could try telling

him about BPD, assuming that she's not listening in to your

conversations with him, but don't put too much hope into

expecting it to have good results. If he's been married to her

for many years, he has to know what she's like. He's knowingly

chosen to stay and put up with her behavior. Does he fall into

the common " dishrag dad " category? Unless they're already

looking for help, people generally don't react well to attempts

to tell them that their partner is mentally ill. Has he given

you any indication that he thinks there is something wrong with

her or her behavior, or that he is dissatisfied with his

relationship with her? If not, you may make things a lot worse

between you by trying to discuss BPD with him. If he has

mentioned thinking something is wrong or being dissatisfied, you

can use that as an entry point to start a discussion with him,

explaining how BPD possibly explains what he's complained about.

If he hasn't given any indication of there being a problem, you

could try saying that you think you've found an explanation for

why you don't get along with her and explain from there. You

could also try recommending a couple of books that you think

would help him learn to deal with her better. I wouldn't push

too hard when you bring up the subject. See how he reacts and

stop when his reaction becomes negative.

At 02:57 PM 04/29/2011 Jill wrote:

>It's been a while since I posted here. My father is married to

>my stepnada--they've been together since I was about 14 or 15.

>I've been NC or LC for many years with them now, which isn't

>too difficult because they live 2000 miles away. Dad flew out

>to visit my family 1 1/2 years ago and asked me to " try again "

>to have a relationship with stepnada because he missed us so

>much. I tried, but having a relationship with stepnada is

>impossible, for reasons that I know you all understand.

>However, I've been calling dad more frequently--maybe once

>every week or two--just to stay in touch. He called at

>Christmas, tearful and saying how much he misses us. Last week

>when we talked, he said he's about had a nervous breakdown

>because he misses my brother and me. Well, my brother and I are

>getting our families together this summer, and two days ago bro

>called dad to invite him to join us. Bro has two little boys

>and Dad has never met the youngest. Dad said sure, good idea,

>he'd do that. Today we get a letter from dad. You can read part

>of it below:

>

> " For a variety of reasons our relationships have been less than

>ideal over the years since my divorce. Now for another variety

>of reasons I have the feeling that both of you are making a

>concerted effort to bridge the years and rekindle what was

>fractured in the past. ly in my opinion that seems to me

>to be an unworkable plan. First of all, all three of us have

>formed our own web of relationships and family ties which are

>totally separate. Second, both of you need to put a maximum

>amount of effort into your individual families. Third, I have

>never been a gregarious individual and find as I age that the

>tendency to just be content being in touch with people as

>needed is about my limit of interest. The above is not to say

>that I do not love the two of you. You know that I do and

>always will. "

>

>This letter is so at odds with what he has told me on the phone

>recently. Also, Dad goes fishing for 2 weeks out of every

>summer with stepnada's son--without stepnada. I still haven't

>found the opportunity to tell him about BPD because he's so far

>away and it's a conversation I want to have in person with him

>(where I will be able to hand him some reading materials like

>SWOE privately. Stepnada controls everything, gets all the

>mail, reads all the email, etc.) I think he might have a

>totally different take on the whole situation if he knew--be

>more willing to set some boundaries with stepnada. I don't feel

>right about saying " NC is fine with me, Dad, it's your choice "

>until after we've had an honest conversation about BPD. I feel

>like I'm abandoning him to the wolves. I would love advice

>about how to handle the conversation, whether to do it over the

>phone, what to say. And I'd love to hear your experiences about

>how the other party handled it--I guess I'd like to know how

>Dad is likely to respond.

>

>Thanks!

>

>Jill

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Katrina,

I would never violate a NC if someone wanted to set that boundary with me, of

course. I don't think that's what Dad meant (he never used the term NC)--I think

he was saying that he doesn't want to do visits, just phone calls. That's what

the letter says. That's not what he told my brother two days ago. I agree that

stepnada put him up to writing the letter. I showed the letter to my husband,

who emailed me this response:

" In short it's pretty " dishrag " of him. My guess is the suggestion that he

would like to come visit you all caused a big fight between your Dishrag and

Nada. I am completely disgusted … all over again. Unfortunately, I'm not

surprised. "

Sometimes Dad does talk about there being something wrong with stepnada. He

mentioned once that maybe there was something wrong with the part of her brain

called the amygdala, because she rages and emotional things affect her so much

more than other people. So he tiptoes, and blames the rest of us for not

tiptoeing and ruining the peace in Oz.

Thanks for your tips on addressing the issue. I've been waiting for him to bring

up a nice " there's something wrong with her " example, but it hasn't happened

recently. I think I will take your advice and start off by saying " I think I

understand why stepnada and I don't get along... " I also totally agree with you

that I will not push if I encounter resistance--thank you. Maybe it will give

him something to think about when he's feeling really lonely and isolated.

>

> Jill,

> Whatever you decide to do, you're not abandoning him to the

> wolves. He's an adult. If it is his choice to be with the

> wolves, that's his responsibility, not yours. Given the

> difference between your phone conversations and the letter, I'd

> guess that your step-nada talked him into writing the letter,

> possibly even telling him what to write. She probably feels

> threatened by his attempts to renew his relationship with you

> and your brother. It isn't clear to me from the part of the

> letter you quote whether it says he intends to cut off all

> contact with you or whether he just doesn't want to come to your

> family get together or otherwise meet in person. If the latter,

> that leaves you some room to work with the situation.

>

> If he really intends to go NC, I don't see that you have much

> choice in the matter. Continuing to try to contact someone who

> has said he doesn't want to have contact is not appropriate, at

> least not without a much stronger reason. Whether you feel like

> saying it that it is fine or not, if he decides not to have

> contact, it really is his choice to do so. Staying in contact

> requires consent from both parties, not just one. If he is

> going to continue with the phone calls, you could try telling

> him about BPD, assuming that she's not listening in to your

> conversations with him, but don't put too much hope into

> expecting it to have good results. If he's been married to her

> for many years, he has to know what she's like. He's knowingly

> chosen to stay and put up with her behavior. Does he fall into

> the common " dishrag dad " category? Unless they're already

> looking for help, people generally don't react well to attempts

> to tell them that their partner is mentally ill. Has he given

> you any indication that he thinks there is something wrong with

> her or her behavior, or that he is dissatisfied with his

> relationship with her? If not, you may make things a lot worse

> between you by trying to discuss BPD with him. If he has

> mentioned thinking something is wrong or being dissatisfied, you

> can use that as an entry point to start a discussion with him,

> explaining how BPD possibly explains what he's complained about.

> If he hasn't given any indication of there being a problem, you

> could try saying that you think you've found an explanation for

> why you don't get along with her and explain from there. You

> could also try recommending a couple of books that you think

> would help him learn to deal with her better. I wouldn't push

> too hard when you bring up the subject. See how he reacts and

> stop when his reaction becomes negative.

>

>

>

> > " For a variety of reasons our relationships have been less than

> >ideal over the years since my divorce. Now for another variety

> >of reasons I have the feeling that both of you are making a

> >concerted effort to bridge the years and rekindle what was

> >fractured in the past. ly in my opinion that seems to me

> >to be an unworkable plan. First of all, all three of us have

> >formed our own web of relationships and family ties which are

> >totally separate. Second, both of you need to put a maximum

> >amount of effort into your individual families. Third, I have

> >never been a gregarious individual and find as I age that the

> >tendency to just be content being in touch with people as

> >needed is about my limit of interest. The above is not to say

> >that I do not love the two of you. You know that I do and

> >always will. "

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes, I agree with Katrina. I too asked my dad to have a relationship with me

sans nada and he refused. It hurt really really bad, but its his life. My T

says its because nada is also his child.

>

>

> Katrina,

>

> I would never violate a NC if someone wanted to set that boundary with me,

> of course. I don't think that's what Dad meant (he never used the term

> NC)--I think he was saying that he doesn't want to do visits, just phone

> calls. That's what the letter says. That's not what he told my brother two

> days ago. I agree that stepnada put him up to writing the letter. I showed

> the letter to my husband, who emailed me this response:

>

> " In short it's pretty " dishrag " of him. My guess is the suggestion that he

> would like to come visit you all caused a big fight between your Dishrag and

> Nada. I am completely disgusted … all over again. Unfortunately, I'm not

> surprised. "

>

> Sometimes Dad does talk about there being something wrong with stepnada. He

> mentioned once that maybe there was something wrong with the part of her

> brain called the amygdala, because she rages and emotional things affect her

> so much more than other people. So he tiptoes, and blames the rest of us for

> not tiptoeing and ruining the peace in Oz.

>

> Thanks for your tips on addressing the issue. I've been waiting for him to

> bring up a nice " there's something wrong with her " example, but it hasn't

> happened recently. I think I will take your advice and start off by saying

> " I think I understand why stepnada and I don't get along... " I also totally

> agree with you that I will not push if I encounter resistance--thank you.

> Maybe it will give him something to think about when he's feeling really

> lonely and isolated.

>

>

>

> >

> > Jill,

> > Whatever you decide to do, you're not abandoning him to the

> > wolves. He's an adult. If it is his choice to be with the

> > wolves, that's his responsibility, not yours. Given the

> > difference between your phone conversations and the letter, I'd

> > guess that your step-nada talked him into writing the letter,

> > possibly even telling him what to write. She probably feels

> > threatened by his attempts to renew his relationship with you

> > and your brother. It isn't clear to me from the part of the

> > letter you quote whether it says he intends to cut off all

> > contact with you or whether he just doesn't want to come to your

> > family get together or otherwise meet in person. If the latter,

> > that leaves you some room to work with the situation.

> >

> > If he really intends to go NC, I don't see that you have much

> > choice in the matter. Continuing to try to contact someone who

> > has said he doesn't want to have contact is not appropriate, at

> > least not without a much stronger reason. Whether you feel like

> > saying it that it is fine or not, if he decides not to have

> > contact, it really is his choice to do so. Staying in contact

> > requires consent from both parties, not just one. If he is

> > going to continue with the phone calls, you could try telling

> > him about BPD, assuming that she's not listening in to your

> > conversations with him, but don't put too much hope into

> > expecting it to have good results. If he's been married to her

> > for many years, he has to know what she's like. He's knowingly

> > chosen to stay and put up with her behavior. Does he fall into

> > the common " dishrag dad " category? Unless they're already

> > looking for help, people generally don't react well to attempts

> > to tell them that their partner is mentally ill. Has he given

> > you any indication that he thinks there is something wrong with

> > her or her behavior, or that he is dissatisfied with his

> > relationship with her? If not, you may make things a lot worse

> > between you by trying to discuss BPD with him. If he has

> > mentioned thinking something is wrong or being dissatisfied, you

> > can use that as an entry point to start a discussion with him,

> > explaining how BPD possibly explains what he's complained about.

> > If he hasn't given any indication of there being a problem, you

> > could try saying that you think you've found an explanation for

> > why you don't get along with her and explain from there. You

> > could also try recommending a couple of books that you think

> > would help him learn to deal with her better. I wouldn't push

> > too hard when you bring up the subject. See how he reacts and

> > stop when his reaction becomes negative.

> >

> >

> >

>

> > > " For a variety of reasons our relationships have been less than

> > >ideal over the years since my divorce. Now for another variety

> > >of reasons I have the feeling that both of you are making a

> > >concerted effort to bridge the years and rekindle what was

> > >fractured in the past. ly in my opinion that seems to me

> > >to be an unworkable plan. First of all, all three of us have

> > >formed our own web of relationships and family ties which are

> > >totally separate. Second, both of you need to put a maximum

> > >amount of effort into your individual families. Third, I have

> > >never been a gregarious individual and find as I age that the

> > >tendency to just be content being in touch with people as

> > >needed is about my limit of interest. The above is not to say

> > >that I do not love the two of you. You know that I do and

> > >always will. "

> > >

>

>

>