How does a PyschD know their client has BPD?

May 11, 2011

THis has been a question on my mind for a while.

Especially since most BPDs are experts at hiding their craziness from the

outside world (like my mom) and the only people who ever see them unravel are

the ones that get to know them on a personal level, see them outside their home,

etc.

A therapist who only saw a person in a clinic once or twice a month and never

interacted with that person on any other level - could they not be duped into

thinking this person was just a victim of abusive father who taught his siblings

how to abuse, victim then married abusive husband who taught his children to

abuse....therefore poor client is victim of all these abusive people. And

because she's received so much abuse, she naturally gravitates towards abusive

friendships, abusive bosses...etc etc etc.

Just wondering what is the " thing " that tips off a therapist/psychologist that a

person is PD?

Thoughts?

May 11, 2011

What could tip them off? The bpder is excessively angry, nothings their

fault, unstable moods, suicidal talk, avoidant tendencies . . .

>

> THis has been a question on my mind for a while.

>

> Especially since most BPDs are experts at hiding their craziness from the

> outside world (like my mom) and the only people who ever see them unravel

> are the ones that get to know them on a personal level, see them outside

> their home, etc.

>

> A therapist who only saw a person in a clinic once or twice a month and

> never interacted with that person on any other level - could they not be

> duped into thinking this person was just a victim of abusive father who

> taught his siblings how to abuse, victim then married abusive husband who

> taught his children to abuse....therefore poor client is victim of all these

> abusive people. And because she's received so much abuse, she naturally

> gravitates towards abusive friendships, abusive bosses...etc etc etc.

>

> Just wondering what is the " thing " that tips off a therapist/psychologist

> that a person is PD?

>

> Thoughts?

>

May 11, 2011

Just a few things that might be clues that there is a PD:

*Seductive dress or posturing,

*Crossing the boundary of client-therapist relationship by bringing gifts or

asking the therapist personal questions about his/her own life,

*Bringing family members into group therapy in order to fix the other people

without being willing to change anything themselves,

*Storming out of sessions or quitting after only one or two

*History of abuse and failed relationships

*Projection about " terrible " " selfish " " hateful " people, or conversely,

idolization of others

*No clear sense of independent self, lack of activities and interests that do

not rely on others

I think I know what you mean when you asked that, though. My parents are

super-experienced at putting on a public face. There is no way my mother would

ever volunteer information about how volatile her emotions are or how hurt she

feels all the time to a complete stranger. Intimate details about all of her

physical ailments: gout, cancer, hysterectomy even? Sure. But feelings of

failure? Admitting that her daughter thinks she's abusive and won't actually

speak to her? NEVER.

A good T would be able to figure it out and piece things together even if the

BPD doesn't present as suicidal. But we all know not all Ts are good at finding

underlying issues, and some pwBPD are experts at hiding and presenting a

persona. Sometimes it takes the perspective of another person: friend, family

member, etc., to help the T see what is really going on.

>

> >

> > THis has been a question on my mind for a while.

> >

> > Especially since most BPDs are experts at hiding their craziness from the

> > outside world (like my mom) and the only people who ever see them unravel

> > are the ones that get to know them on a personal level, see them outside

> > their home, etc.

> >

> > A therapist who only saw a person in a clinic once or twice a month and

> > never interacted with that person on any other level - could they not be

> > duped into thinking this person was just a victim of abusive father who

> > taught his siblings how to abuse, victim then married abusive husband who

> > taught his children to abuse....therefore poor client is victim of all these

> > abusive people. And because she's received so much abuse, she naturally

> > gravitates towards abusive friendships, abusive bosses...etc etc etc.

> >

> > Just wondering what is the " thing " that tips off a therapist/psychologist

> > that a person is PD?

> >

> > Thoughts?

> >

>

May 11, 2011

Thanks. My mom has tried multiple times to drag me and my brothers into therapy

with her so we could be " fixed " , according to her, AT the suggestion of her T.

Thanks for the thoughts. You're right, not all T's can put it together. I just

wanted to know how a GOOD therapist would figure it out and that helps to know.

There seems to be a symbiotic relationship between my mom and her T. She has

been with her for 8 years and instead of getting better, she's getting worse and

learning all kinds of psyco-babble to use against me in conversations. Gag. The

last time she called me, it sounded like she was reading from a script on my

answering machine.....or out of a psych textbook.

haha - found out today that my mom has ordered a book called " The Verbally

Abusive Relationship " . My brother lives with her (about to move out) and called

to tell me he thought my mom bought a book about me. We chuckled about it and I

said " Well in that case I'm gonna ease up her life from abuse when I send her

the LC letter " .

I'm the only child who has set boundaries with her so of course, I'm the abusive

one.

> >

> > >

> > > THis has been a question on my mind for a while.

> > >

> > > Especially since most BPDs are experts at hiding their craziness from the

> > > outside world (like my mom) and the only people who ever see them unravel

> > > are the ones that get to know them on a personal level, see them outside

> > > their home, etc.

> > >

> > > A therapist who only saw a person in a clinic once or twice a month and

> > > never interacted with that person on any other level - could they not be

> > > duped into thinking this person was just a victim of abusive father who

> > > taught his siblings how to abuse, victim then married abusive husband who

> > > taught his children to abuse....therefore poor client is victim of all

these

> > > abusive people. And because she's received so much abuse, she naturally

> > > gravitates towards abusive friendships, abusive bosses...etc etc etc.

> > >

> > > Just wondering what is the " thing " that tips off a therapist/psychologist

> > > that a person is PD?

> > >

> > > Thoughts?

> > >

> >

May 11, 2011

That seems to be a typical way for the bpd mom/nada to interpret someone going

low-contact / no-contact with her: YOU are being abusive to *her* by no longer

making yourself available to be her emotional punching bag. Bad child! Come

closer, dear, so I can kiss you... and then punch you hard in the solar plexus.

Ha! Gotcha again!

-Annie

> > >

> > > >

> > > > THis has been a question on my mind for a while.

> > > >

> > > > Especially since most BPDs are experts at hiding their craziness from

the

> > > > outside world (like my mom) and the only people who ever see them

unravel

> > > > are the ones that get to know them on a personal level, see them outside

> > > > their home, etc.

> > > >

> > > > A therapist who only saw a person in a clinic once or twice a month and

> > > > never interacted with that person on any other level - could they not be

> > > > duped into thinking this person was just a victim of abusive father who

> > > > taught his siblings how to abuse, victim then married abusive husband

who

> > > > taught his children to abuse....therefore poor client is victim of all

these

> > > > abusive people. And because she's received so much abuse, she naturally

> > > > gravitates towards abusive friendships, abusive bosses...etc etc etc.

> > > >

> > > > Just wondering what is the " thing " that tips off a

therapist/psychologist

> > > > that a person is PD?

> > > >

> > > > Thoughts?

> > > >

> > >

May 11, 2011

Several decades ago now, my nada decided to drag dad with her in to see a

marriage counselor so the counselor would " straighten dad out about a few

things. " At the end of that first (and only) session the counselor said that in

his opinion my mother " probably has borderline personality disorder " and would

benefit from seeing a psychologist on her own.

My younger Sister (who was in college and living with our parents at the time)

said our nada returned home from the session fuming and raging, screaming that

the counselor was " an idiot " and " didn't know his ass from a hole in the

ground " , etc. I didn't hear about this incident until, like, 15 years or so

after the fact! So much for further marriage counseling, and no, nada never

went in for therapy on her own (until decades later.)

So, some therapists can nail the diagnosis right off the bat, it would appear!

But from hearing friends talk and reading posts at various support groups, it

would also seem that there are an awful lot of very inept, unqualified and/or

badly-trained therapists and counselors out there.

But on the other hand, even Dr. Hare, a psychiatrist and researcher who

developed the Hare Psychopathy Checklist and is considered one of if not THE top

expert on psychopathy, has said that he himself has been fooled by psychopaths

on more than one occasion. That's what they do: psychopaths present as normal,

agreeable people, like wearing a mask, in order to gain trust so they can use

and manipulate others. They can even fool the experts. ( " The Mask of Sanity "

is a book about sociopaths, aka psychopaths, by the way, and I believe its one

of the books that intrigued Hare's interest in studying psychopathy.)

When and if we ourselves choose to seek therapy, we need to be good consumers

and shop for a good one, even more carefully and thoroughly than shopping for a

new car.

In my opinion.

-Annie

> > >

> > > >

> > > > THis has been a question on my mind for a while.

> > > >

> > > > Especially since most BPDs are experts at hiding their craziness from

the

> > > > outside world (like my mom) and the only people who ever see them

unravel

> > > > are the ones that get to know them on a personal level, see them outside

> > > > their home, etc.

> > > >

> > > > A therapist who only saw a person in a clinic once or twice a month and

> > > > never interacted with that person on any other level - could they not be

> > > > duped into thinking this person was just a victim of abusive father who

> > > > taught his siblings how to abuse, victim then married abusive husband

who

> > > > taught his children to abuse....therefore poor client is victim of all

these

> > > > abusive people. And because she's received so much abuse, she naturally

> > > > gravitates towards abusive friendships, abusive bosses...etc etc etc.

> > > >

> > > > Just wondering what is the " thing " that tips off a

therapist/psychologist

> > > > that a person is PD?

> > > >

> > > > Thoughts?

> > > >

> > >

May 11, 2011

This thread reminds me of that description, I think in SWOE, that a person with

a different disorder, say someone who is bipolar, would show the signs of it

even if isolated on a desert island, whereas a BPD wouldn't - because they need

other people to present their madness. I think any decent T would likely invite

family members to meet based on their identified client's statements - but a

good one would smell a rat as soon as the family shows up because the BPD person

would then have their smorgasbord of souls to feast on and, over time, their

true colors would show through in the session. I'm not saying I'm volunteering

to accompany MY mother to a session (snort!)... Interestingly enough, my dad is

NPD and the one therapy session they both went to resulting in him pouting and

her raging bc the T told them they were BOTH nuckinfuts. They never went back

and separated permanently about two weeks later.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > THis has been a question on my mind for a while.

> > > > >

> > > > > Especially since most BPDs are experts at hiding their craziness from

the

> > > > > outside world (like my mom) and the only people who ever see them

unravel

> > > > > are the ones that get to know them on a personal level, see them

outside

> > > > > their home, etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > A therapist who only saw a person in a clinic once or twice a month

and

> > > > > never interacted with that person on any other level - could they not

be

> > > > > duped into thinking this person was just a victim of abusive father

who

> > > > > taught his siblings how to abuse, victim then married abusive husband

who

> > > > > taught his children to abuse....therefore poor client is victim of all

these

> > > > > abusive people. And because she's received so much abuse, she

naturally

> > > > > gravitates towards abusive friendships, abusive bosses...etc etc etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > Just wondering what is the " thing " that tips off a

therapist/psychologist

> > > > > that a person is PD?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thoughts?

> > > > >

> > > >

May 11, 2011

Years ago I saw a therapist who was often sent BPD clients by her colleagues who

couldn't stand them, so she was a bit of a specialist though she only had an

MSW. She told me one of the first signs a client was BPD was that they would

start rearranging her office on the first meeting. Literally moving the

furniture to new locations without asking her permission to make it to his/her

liking. She said that that instant need to enforce " how it had to be " for

their comfort while disregarding whose space they were in or any other socially

appropriate boundaries was a huge clue. I'm sure there were more clues too but

at the time I didn't ask...just was relieved when she told me I wasn't BPD!

>

> THis has been a question on my mind for a while.

>

> Especially since most BPDs are experts at hiding their craziness from the

outside world (like my mom) and the only people who ever see them unravel are

the ones that get to know them on a personal level, see them outside their home,

etc.

>

> A therapist who only saw a person in a clinic once or twice a month and never

interacted with that person on any other level - could they not be duped into

thinking this person was just a victim of abusive father who taught his siblings

how to abuse, victim then married abusive husband who taught his children to

abuse....therefore poor client is victim of all these abusive people. And

because she's received so much abuse, she naturally gravitates towards abusive

friendships, abusive bosses...etc etc etc.

>

> Just wondering what is the " thing " that tips off a therapist/psychologist that

a person is PD?

>

> Thoughts?

>

May 11, 2011

Oh my gosh, ...I saw a therapist a few years ago too...and was completely

relieved that he said I wasn't BPD. He said the biggest clue for him was the

mere fact that I was worried that I might be BPD.

I guess this is common? Do we all do this?

> >

> > THis has been a question on my mind for a while.

> >

> > Especially since most BPDs are experts at hiding their craziness from the

outside world (like my mom) and the only people who ever see them unravel are

the ones that get to know them on a personal level, see them outside their home,

etc.

> >

> > A therapist who only saw a person in a clinic once or twice a month and

never interacted with that person on any other level - could they not be duped

into thinking this person was just a victim of abusive father who taught his

siblings how to abuse, victim then married abusive husband who taught his

children to abuse....therefore poor client is victim of all these abusive

people. And because she's received so much abuse, she naturally gravitates

towards abusive friendships, abusive bosses...etc etc etc.

> >

> > Just wondering what is the " thing " that tips off a therapist/psychologist

that a person is PD?

> >

> > Thoughts?

> >

>

May 11, 2011

For what it's worth, I keep worrying that I have BPD, too....

>

> Oh my gosh, ...I saw a therapist a few years ago too...and was

> completely relieved that he said I wasn't BPD. He said the biggest clue for

> him was the mere fact that I was worried that I might be BPD.

>

> I guess this is common? Do we all do this?

>

> > >

> > > THis has been a question on my mind for a while.

> > >

> > > Especially since most BPDs are experts at hiding their craziness from

> the outside world (like my mom) and the only people who ever see them

> unravel are the ones that get to know them on a personal level, see them

> outside their home, etc.

> > >

> > > A therapist who only saw a person in a clinic once or twice a month and

> never interacted with that person on any other level - could they not be

> duped into thinking this person was just a victim of abusive father who

> taught his siblings how to abuse, victim then married abusive husband who

> taught his children to abuse....therefore poor client is victim of all these

> abusive people. And because she's received so much abuse, she naturally

> gravitates towards abusive friendships, abusive bosses...etc etc etc.

> > >

> > > Just wondering what is the " thing " that tips off a

> therapist/psychologist that a person is PD?

> > >

> > > Thoughts?

> > >

> >

>

May 11, 2011

I don't really think I have BPD but I experience a lot of pain that I feel comes

from the rejection abandonment trauma. My brain is hypervigilant telling me I'm

being rejected and abandoned when its just people are really rude now. They

don't respond most of the time. Not talking about you guys but it is a thing I

experience a lot.

----------

Please excuse any typos or terseness, this message was sent from a mobile

device.

Re: Re: How does a PyschD know their client has

BPD?

For what it's worth, I keep worrying that I have BPD, too....

>

> Oh my gosh, ...I saw a therapist a few years ago too...and was

> completely relieved that he said I wasn't BPD. He said the biggest clue for

> him was the mere fact that I was worried that I might be BPD.

>

> I guess this is common? Do we all do this?

>

> > >

> > > THis has been a question on my mind for a while.

> > >

> > > Especially since most BPDs are experts at hiding their craziness from

> the outside world (like my mom) and the only people who ever see them

> unravel are the ones that get to know them on a personal level, see them

> outside their home, etc.

> > >

> > > A therapist who only saw a person in a clinic once or twice a month and

> never interacted with that person on any other level - could they not be

> duped into thinking this person was just a victim of abusive father who

> taught his siblings how to abuse, victim then married abusive husband who

> taught his children to abuse....therefore poor client is victim of all these

> abusive people. And because she's received so much abuse, she naturally

> gravitates towards abusive friendships, abusive bosses...etc etc etc.

> > >

> > > Just wondering what is the " thing " that tips off a

> therapist/psychologist that a person is PD?

> > >

> > > Thoughts?

> > >

> >

>

May 11, 2011

Lol, I recently made a post about my nada doing that very thing to me: deciding

to rearrange my furniture and stuff without asking me!

Makes me wonder if its the equivalent of dogs or cats pissing on things to " mark

their territory " ?

This jogs a memory... I now recall my Aunt, my nada's younger sister, telling me

that she had to get very firm with my nada about that same issue! Nada had been

rearranging her sister's living room furniture without asking, and when her

sister asked her to please stop doing that, my nada got all huffy and insulted.

GAAAAH! Personality disordered behavior is just beyond frustrating; it truly

is crazy-making.

Yeah, the more I think about it, its all about nada marking your territory as

*hers*; nada is symbolically pissing on other people's stuff, announcing that

SHE is the ALPHA female.

I'm so glad I'm virtually No Contact now; its truly a wonder I didn't wind up in

a psych ward somewhere, drooling on my straight jacket.

Holy Freaking Toledo.

-Annie

> >

> > THis has been a question on my mind for a while.

> >

> > Especially since most BPDs are experts at hiding their craziness from the

outside world (like my mom) and the only people who ever see them unravel are

the ones that get to know them on a personal level, see them outside their home,

etc.

> >

> > A therapist who only saw a person in a clinic once or twice a month and

never interacted with that person on any other level - could they not be duped

into thinking this person was just a victim of abusive father who taught his

siblings how to abuse, victim then married abusive husband who taught his

children to abuse....therefore poor client is victim of all these abusive

people. And because she's received so much abuse, she naturally gravitates

towards abusive friendships, abusive bosses...etc etc etc.

> >

> > Just wondering what is the " thing " that tips off a therapist/psychologist

that a person is PD?

> >

> > Thoughts?

> >

>

May 11, 2011

Good to know I've got company! I think one of the many difficult legacies of

having a borderline parent is always questioning yourself - is it me? am I

crazy? did I just overreact? is what I want reasonable? am I just like her?

OMG!!! And it gives manipulative others the perfect way to shut you up if you

are justifiably outraged or calling them on their bullshit - all they have to do

is say you are overreacting or being like your mother and then wham, game over.

All those self-doubts make it hard to take a stand sometimes when it's

important. I think I'm doing way better with this than I did in my twenties but

of course back then I was dating a lot and really needed to understand about

these things. I'm glad for the generations coming up now that they have access

to so much information so hopefully it won't take them so long to learn they

aren't the crazy one.

>

> >

> > Oh my gosh, ...I saw a therapist a few years ago too...and was

> > completely relieved that he said I wasn't BPD. He said the biggest clue for

> > him was the mere fact that I was worried that I might be BPD.

> >

> > I guess this is common? Do we all do this?

> >

May 11, 2011

I would feel safe saying that a big chunk of us KOs ask ourselves (and others)

that question, or fear that we may " turn into " our bpd mothers, at some point or

another.

-Annie

> > >

> > > THis has been a question on my mind for a while.

> > >

> > > Especially since most BPDs are experts at hiding their craziness from the

outside world (like my mom) and the only people who ever see them unravel are

the ones that get to know them on a personal level, see them outside their home,

etc.

> > >

> > > A therapist who only saw a person in a clinic once or twice a month and

never interacted with that person on any other level - could they not be duped

into thinking this person was just a victim of abusive father who taught his

siblings how to abuse, victim then married abusive husband who taught his

children to abuse....therefore poor client is victim of all these abusive

people. And because she's received so much abuse, she naturally gravitates

towards abusive friendships, abusive bosses...etc etc etc.

> > >

> > > Just wondering what is the " thing " that tips off a therapist/psychologist

that a person is PD?

> > >

> > > Thoughts?

> > >

> >

>

May 11, 2011

Wow Annie, so she was doing this in your *house*? and your aunt's? I agree it

does sound like marking territory. Guess my T was right. She was probably the

best T I ever did see and I think it was because she understood about BPD. To

me it sounded strange that rearranging a therapist's furniture could be so

diagnostic...but you've proven it!

>

> Lol, I recently made a post about my nada doing that very thing to me:

deciding to rearrange my furniture and stuff without asking me!

>

> Makes me wonder if its the equivalent of dogs or cats pissing on things to

" mark their territory " ?

>

> This jogs a memory... I now recall my Aunt, my nada's younger sister, telling

me that she had to get very firm with my nada about that same issue! Nada had

been rearranging her sister's living room furniture without asking, and when her

sister asked her to please stop doing that, my nada got all huffy and insulted.

GAAAAH! Personality disordered behavior is just beyond frustrating; it truly

is crazy-making.

>

> Yeah, the more I think about it, its all about nada marking your territory as

*hers*; nada is symbolically pissing on other people's stuff, announcing that

SHE is the ALPHA female.

>

> I'm so glad I'm virtually No Contact now; its truly a wonder I didn't wind up

in a psych ward somewhere, drooling on my straight jacket.

> Holy Freaking Toledo.

>

> -Annie

>

May 11, 2011

Yes, nada did that to me while she was visiting me at my house, and to her

sister/my Aunt at my Aunt's house as well. And I bet if I ask my Sister she'll

say our nada did the same thing to her as well, or tried to. (Sister, the poor

little family scapegoat when we were growing up, learned to stand up on her hind

legs and buck back hard to stop nada's domineering earlier than I did. My baby

Sister don't take no crap from nobody no more... so to speak.)

My nada has always been very bossy, demanding and domineering toward me my whole

life, and yet I was still surprised when she did the furniture-rearranging

thing. I would have thought my stuff was too heavy for her to mess with, for

one thing, but... I was wrong again!

I used to really dread nada's visits, because it meant nada feeling entitled to

go snooping through all my drawers and boxes and closets, fish around for

personal papers and items I intended to be private. She was also fishing for

just general stuff of mine that she liked; if she found a purse or a blouse or

something she liked she would then ask me if she could have it, and back then

I'd just say " sure " to keep her happy and avoid a tantrum. I can't even tell

you how many vacations and visits with my parents, either at their place or at

mine, have been ruined by nada drama.

Wow, I haven't even thought about the whole " dreading visits " thing in so long!

I would usually wind up physically ill toward the end of any visit/vacation with

my mother, just from the stress, probably.

Some of her behaviors are at a two-to-four-year-old child's level and while

annoying at least they aren't vicious; and yet other behaviors of hers are SO

calculated and malicious, SO sadistic, its got to be coming from an adult's mind

but its just so freaking... evil and creepy. It really is Jekyll-and-Hyde-like:

the good/evil behaviors switching back and forth, back and forth.

Children really should not be subjected to the daily mind-f**king that my Sister

and I were subjected to. Its just cruel.

-Annie

> >

> > Lol, I recently made a post about my nada doing that very thing to me:

deciding to rearrange my furniture and stuff without asking me!

> >

> > Makes me wonder if its the equivalent of dogs or cats pissing on things to

" mark their territory " ?

> >

> > This jogs a memory... I now recall my Aunt, my nada's younger sister,

telling me that she had to get very firm with my nada about that same issue!

Nada had been rearranging her sister's living room furniture without asking, and

when her sister asked her to please stop doing that, my nada got all huffy and

insulted. GAAAAH! Personality disordered behavior is just beyond frustrating;

it truly is crazy-making.

> >

> > Yeah, the more I think about it, its all about nada marking your territory

as *hers*; nada is symbolically pissing on other people's stuff, announcing

that SHE is the ALPHA female.

> >

> > I'm so glad I'm virtually No Contact now; its truly a wonder I didn't wind

up in a psych ward somewhere, drooling on my straight jacket.

> > Holy Freaking Toledo.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

>

May 12, 2011

LOL! I think I have more rational conversations with my 3 and 4 year old

daughters sometimes than I do with my 55 year old mother. I have actually tried

the techniques laid out in the book " How to Talk so kids will Listen and Listen

so Kids will Talk " on my mother - this is the book that the girls' preschool

uses as their " bible " so to speak.

Not only do I worry that I am BPD like my mom; but when dealing with my mom or

about my mom, I've caught myself re-arranging the truth or leaving pieces of

stories out (like my mom does ALL the time) because I am terrified that people

won't understand or my mom will have a tantrum. It's a defense mechanism that I

guess I learned. But it freaks me out...here's what happens in my head:

" Oh my gosh, you totally just lied about that. You must be BPD like mom....No,

you're not. You are just trying to avoid conflict, that's how you've learned to

survive. Plus, you've seen a therapist. He was so sure that you weren't

BPD...although, perhaps you're just so good at hiding the craziness. You've done

enough research on BPD that you are a master at hiding it. "

How f-ed up is that? Please tell me I'm not alone in this one!

Judy

> > >

> > > Lol, I recently made a post about my nada doing that very thing to me:

deciding to rearrange my furniture and stuff without asking me!

> > >

> > > Makes me wonder if its the equivalent of dogs or cats pissing on things to

" mark their territory " ?

> > >

> > > This jogs a memory... I now recall my Aunt, my nada's younger sister,

telling me that she had to get very firm with my nada about that same issue!

Nada had been rearranging her sister's living room furniture without asking, and

when her sister asked her to please stop doing that, my nada got all huffy and

insulted. GAAAAH! Personality disordered behavior is just beyond frustrating;

it truly is crazy-making.

> > >

> > > Yeah, the more I think about it, its all about nada marking your territory

as *hers*; nada is symbolically pissing on other people's stuff, announcing

that SHE is the ALPHA female.

> > >

> > > I'm so glad I'm virtually No Contact now; its truly a wonder I didn't wind

up in a psych ward somewhere, drooling on my straight jacket.

> > > Holy Freaking Toledo.

> > >

> > > -Annie

> > >

> >

>

May 12, 2011

You are absolutely not alone in this! This is exactly how I think and feel,

too!

>

> LOL! I think I have more rational conversations with my 3 and 4 year old

> daughters sometimes than I do with my 55 year old mother. I have actually

> tried the techniques laid out in the book " How to Talk so kids will Listen

> and Listen so Kids will Talk " on my mother - this is the book that the

> girls' preschool uses as their " bible " so to speak.

>

> Not only do I worry that I am BPD like my mom; but when dealing with my mom

> or about my mom, I've caught myself re-arranging the truth or leaving pieces

> of stories out (like my mom does ALL the time) because I am terrified that

> people won't understand or my mom will have a tantrum. It's a defense

> mechanism that I guess I learned. But it freaks me out...here's what happens

> in my head:

>

> " Oh my gosh, you totally just lied about that. You must be BPD like

> mom....No, you're not. You are just trying to avoid conflict, that's how

> you've learned to survive. Plus, you've seen a therapist. He was so sure

> that you weren't BPD...although, perhaps you're just so good at hiding the

> craziness. You've done enough research on BPD that you are a master at

> hiding it. "

>

> How f-ed up is that? Please tell me I'm not alone in this one!

> Judy

>

> > > >

> > > > Lol, I recently made a post about my nada doing that very thing to

> me: deciding to rearrange my furniture and stuff without asking me!

> > > >

> > > > Makes me wonder if its the equivalent of dogs or cats pissing on

> things to " mark their territory " ?

> > > >

> > > > This jogs a memory... I now recall my Aunt, my nada's younger sister,

> telling me that she had to get very firm with my nada about that same issue!

> Nada had been rearranging her sister's living room furniture without asking,

> and when her sister asked her to please stop doing that, my nada got all

> huffy and insulted. GAAAAH! Personality disordered behavior is just beyond

> frustrating; it truly is crazy-making.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah, the more I think about it, its all about nada marking your

> territory as *hers*; nada is symbolically pissing on other people's stuff,

> announcing that SHE is the ALPHA female.

> > > >

> > > > I'm so glad I'm virtually No Contact now; its truly a wonder I didn't

> wind up in a psych ward somewhere, drooling on my straight jacket.

> > > > Holy Freaking Toledo.

> > > >

> > > > -Annie

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

May 12, 2011

I can relate to this completely! I got angry in an email to a professional

contact last week after they had made a series of extraordinary mistakes

(resulting in life-changing health treatment being delayed for a severely

disabled woman for almost a year)and were refusing to investigate the matter in

order to enable it to be resolved.

Initially, I felt that getting angry was not only justified, but the only way in

which I could provoke the right reaction (to investigate what had gone wrong and

to resolve it). As soon as I sent the email I went into a total panic, trying to

work out whether I'd overreacted, or been 'too' angry (i.e. outside the realms

of 'normal' behaviour), or had misunderstood the issue.

I kept going over and over what had happened in my head, rechecked all the

correspondence and the series of events that had happened, wrote to friends of

mine to 'check' what they thought about it, and spent the next week oscillating

between thinking everything was fine, and thinking I was a complete idiot, that

I had made a big mistake, that everyone in my professional sphere would think I

was completely mad, etc etc.

Now, even though contacts of mine who would understand the situation have got

back to me to say that if they'd been in my shoes, they'd have been on the phone

screaming and shouting, and even though my getting angry FINALLY resolved the

situation and I got a grovelling apology from the individual who had messed up

so badly, I still feel a residual sickness about the whole 'incident'and that

I've done something wrong. (Although rationally, not getting the issue resolved

in whichever way I could in order that the woman could get her treatment would

be really wrong...).

Makes sense I guess. How can you trust your own judgement when(from childhood)

everytime you try to assert yourself, defend yourself from mad and false

accusions, or stop yourself from being emotionally abused, everything you say is

twisted against you and you are made to feel like you are the one who is mad and

evil for walking out of the house because your mother has been screaming in your

face for 2 hours.

Hmmm.

How to move on from this I wonder...

SB

> >

> > >

> > > Oh my gosh, ...I saw a therapist a few years ago too...and was

> > > completely relieved that he said I wasn't BPD. He said the biggest clue

for

> > > him was the mere fact that I was worried that I might be BPD.

> > >

> > > I guess this is common? Do we all do this?

> > >

>

May 12, 2011

It has helped me to realize (gradually) that its my own mother who is virtually

the only human being on the planet who has ever really been severely abusive to

me in a calculated, malicious, sadistic way.

She is the only one who can trigger me into nearly instant horrible

Meniere's-disease-like symptoms just from the sound of her voice (sudden

extreme, blinding headache, dizziness, nausea/vomiting, then crashing asleep for

12 hours.) The last time she announced she was coming to visit me (across

country) it was a very stressful time for me at my job, and I didn't want her to

come, yet I was SO unable to say to her simply, " This isn't a good time, mom. I

need you to come later, like in a couple of months. " Couldn't do it, I was too

brainwashed and afraid of her to just state my needs, and I almost had a

complete nervous breakdown because of it (it was the first and so far only time

I sought out a therapist, sort of like an emergency situation, which is fodder

for another thread.)

Anyway, the more years I've spent apart from frequent contact with nada and dad,

it has become more and more clear that NOBODY has ever been as harsh, punitive

or just plain mean towards me as my own mother, except for a former best friend

who also, as it turns out, was formally diagnosed with narcissistic pd. And

when I worked a large, multinational corporation, I would occasionally find

myself with a " boss from hell " but I was usually able to choose good, decent,

mentally healthy bosses.

Bottom line: most people are just fine; most people are just decent, ordinary,

relatively mentally healthy human beings. But sometimes life throws us into

contact with the mentally ill, personality disordered, scary-creepy-mean people.

Fortunately, they are the minority and as adults we have the power to get shed

of them relatively quickly.

-Annie

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Oh my gosh, ...I saw a therapist a few years ago too...and was

> > > > completely relieved that he said I wasn't BPD. He said the biggest clue

for

> > > > him was the mere fact that I was worried that I might be BPD.

> > > >

> > > > I guess this is common? Do we all do this?

> > > >

> >

>

May 12, 2011

Annie,

I always get a lot of insight reading your posts. What is especially

enlightening is that, I can see how much you suffered even though you were the

" good child " and your sister the " bad child. " Since I was the scapegoat " bad

child, " I always sort of resented that I took all the abuse so that my brother

didn't have to, but now I can see that good children suffer too. Although in my

family, my brother wasn't treated as the good child, he was just the not-hated

child, which is probably better (less pressure.)

Gail

> It has helped me to realize (gradually) that its my own mother who is

virtually the only human being on the planet who has ever really been severely

abusive to me in a calculated, malicious, sadistic way.

>

> She is the only one who can trigger me into nearly instant horrible