Pessimism and being the child of a nada

[Guest guest]

Is anyone else on here a huge pessimist?

Over the past five years I have come to understand how much of enjoying life and

generally having a good time in whatever you have to do every day has to do with

positive expectations for the future.

Years ago I didn't have a very realistic view of life. I lived like a

Pollyanna, like life was a Disney movie where, as they say, " you can do anything

you put your mind to. " Seems like life only let me do whatever I put my mind to

when it was going to be detrimental to me down the road, but when something is

going to be beneficial to me down the road...well, *that* life doesn't seem to

let me do. Some things we individual little people actually have very, very

little chance at succeeding at, and now I see this and don't expect much

positive anymore. I see how childish I used to be about life and my chances for

success in it.

Plus, lately I've had to spend a lot of time around the very, very old. I see

what really happens when people become very, very old. To put it bluntly, it

sucks, and these people have plenty of money to take care of their physical

needs and also family to help. They may be going through a lot, but they are

not alone nor are they poor. My chances for having anyone around or having any

money to take care of myself are pretty much nil, and I know that.

So I look back at a childhood that was abominably shitty, a young adulthood that

was spent pretty much ruining my own chances for happiness and success, even

though it *looked* like I was doing the right things, and now here I am at

midlife, and the future is in all probability, crap as well. I just have a

really hard time enjoying anything at all knowing this. I still work hard

struggling to get ahead, but it's a whole different experience when you know you

can't assume anymore that anything will pay off or that anything will be OK.

I don't know what this post is about. I guess I just think that people who've

had positive experiences to look back on, can have more faith *because* they can

look back on good things that actually happened. I don't expect good things to

happen anymore at all.

*shrugs*

--LL.

[Guest guest]

I'm only an optimist if you consider the motto " it could be worse " to be a

positive one.

Having said that, I do think that every day is a new day and you can make

decisions to change at any time. I'm not even suggesting that it's easy, or

that you'll succeed the first time you try (or the second, or the third...), but

it's possible. Yes, lots of us were set up to fail. Lots of us are ill-equip

to deal with the rest of humanity. Lots of us just don't have the confidence in

ourselves that we would otherwise have if our caretakers had been unconditional

in their love for us, resulting in us never feeling we deserved to even try to

reach our potential. But it doesn't mean we should just roll over and resign

ourselves to a path of least resistance where the only thing we can hope for is

the mediocre.

You sound a lot more hopeless than pessimistic to me, and I think it's a big

difference. Pessimism seems to me to be a really fine-resolution view of

reality. It's life without any of the sugar-coating most people require in

order to live their day-to-day lives and not fall into a pit of despair.

Hopelessness seems to be a complete resignation to the fact that we live in a

crapsack world and there's nothing we can do about it. We cannot control

everything, but we can control ourselves and our decisions. If you can regain

your faith in that idea, then that's a good start.

>

> Is anyone else on here a huge pessimist?

>

> Over the past five years I have come to understand how much of enjoying life

and generally having a good time in whatever you have to do every day has to do

with positive expectations for the future.

>

> Years ago I didn't have a very realistic view of life. I lived like a

Pollyanna, like life was a Disney movie where, as they say, " you can do anything

you put your mind to. " Seems like life only let me do whatever I put my mind to

when it was going to be detrimental to me down the road, but when something is

going to be beneficial to me down the road...well, *that* life doesn't seem to

let me do. Some things we individual little people actually have very, very

little chance at succeeding at, and now I see this and don't expect much

positive anymore. I see how childish I used to be about life and my chances for

success in it.

>

> Plus, lately I've had to spend a lot of time around the very, very old. I see

what really happens when people become very, very old. To put it bluntly, it

sucks, and these people have plenty of money to take care of their physical

needs and also family to help. They may be going through a lot, but they are

not alone nor are they poor. My chances for having anyone around or having any

money to take care of myself are pretty much nil, and I know that.

>

> So I look back at a childhood that was abominably shitty, a young adulthood

that was spent pretty much ruining my own chances for happiness and success,

even though it *looked* like I was doing the right things, and now here I am at

midlife, and the future is in all probability, crap as well. I just have a

really hard time enjoying anything at all knowing this. I still work hard

struggling to get ahead, but it's a whole different experience when you know you

can't assume anymore that anything will pay off or that anything will be OK.

>

> I don't know what this post is about. I guess I just think that people who've

had positive experiences to look back on, can have more faith *because* they can

look back on good things that actually happened. I don't expect good things to

happen anymore at all.

>

> *shrugs*

>

> --LL.

>

[Guest guest]

I go back and forth struggling with resisting this POV. I totally relate to

it. I fought really hard throughout my childhood to do well in school to get

the ultimate goal of getting away and getting a good job. And for a while it

seemed that all my effort had paid off and then it all turned into crap and it

was all lost. It makes it hard to put forth my best effort now because I know

my dreams can come true and then turn into a nightmare. So yeah , I can

relate.

When I'm on the upside, it's because I'm focusing on the present moment. I just

ate an awesome breakfast with fresh blackberries for example. And it was great

because I focused on that one thing. If my mind had been filled with thoughts

of losses past and possibly future I wouldn't be able to enjoy those

blackberries at all. I know that might seem a bit trite and pollyana next to

the bigtime negatives we're talking about....but isn't life made every day of

thousands of little moments just like that? If we don't have sweetness from the

past to draw on or the expectation of sweetness in the future, then draw as much

as you can from every single moment as it happens right now.

>

> Is anyone else on here a huge pessimist?

>

> Over the past five years I have come to understand how much of enjoying life

and generally having a good time in whatever you have to do every day has to do

with positive expectations for the future.

>

> Years ago I didn't have a very realistic view of life. I lived like a

Pollyanna, like life was a Disney movie where, as they say, " you can do anything

you put your mind to. " Seems like life only let me do whatever I put my mind to

when it was going to be detrimental to me down the road, but when something is

going to be beneficial to me down the road...well, *that* life doesn't seem to

let me do. Some things we individual little people actually have very, very

little chance at succeeding at, and now I see this and don't expect much

positive anymore. I see how childish I used to be about life and my chances for

success in it.

>

> Plus, lately I've had to spend a lot of time around the very, very old. I see

what really happens when people become very, very old. To put it bluntly, it

sucks, and these people have plenty of money to take care of their physical

needs and also family to help. They may be going through a lot, but they are

not alone nor are they poor. My chances for having anyone around or having any

money to take care of myself are pretty much nil, and I know that.

>

> So I look back at a childhood that was abominably shitty, a young adulthood

that was spent pretty much ruining my own chances for happiness and success,

even though it *looked* like I was doing the right things, and now here I am at

midlife, and the future is in all probability, crap as well. I just have a

really hard time enjoying anything at all knowing this. I still work hard

struggling to get ahead, but it's a whole different experience when you know you

can't assume anymore that anything will pay off or that anything will be OK.

>

> I don't know what this post is about. I guess I just think that people who've

had positive experiences to look back on, can have more faith *because* they can

look back on good things that actually happened. I don't expect good things to

happen anymore at all.

>

> *shrugs*

>

> --LL.

>

[Guest guest]

I can relate to this. Instead of focusing on what I lack, I try to focus on

what I do have, and stay in the moment as much as possible, and able to be

grateful for these things. Otherwise, I think I'd sink into a scary depression.

My philosophy is that life is too damned short to spend the rest of what I have

of it being miserable. Sure, yes, the formative years of my life sucked, but,

no matter what happens to me now, I get to decide how I'm going to react to it.

I can celebrate the good parts and try to not let the bad parts break me.

Its not easy because I have negative, self-hating nada tapes running in my head

sometimes (saying all the ugly things you can imagine) so I have to shut those

tapes off and just concentrate on being in the moment and enjoying it as much as

possible.

I have to fight hard to not be pessimistic, because for me that leads to

depression.

And yes, the ability to enjoy the little things in life, such as a tasty

breakfast or the beauty of nature, a friend's voice, that sort of thing, truly

has meaning and value for me.

-Annie

> >

> > Is anyone else on here a huge pessimist?

> >

> > Over the past five years I have come to understand how much of enjoying life

and generally having a good time in whatever you have to do every day has to do

with positive expectations for the future.

> >

> > Years ago I didn't have a very realistic view of life. I lived like a

Pollyanna, like life was a Disney movie where, as they say, " you can do anything

you put your mind to. " Seems like life only let me do whatever I put my mind to

when it was going to be detrimental to me down the road, but when something is

going to be beneficial to me down the road...well, *that* life doesn't seem to

let me do. Some things we individual little people actually have very, very

little chance at succeeding at, and now I see this and don't expect much

positive anymore. I see how childish I used to be about life and my chances for

success in it.

> >

> > Plus, lately I've had to spend a lot of time around the very, very old. I

see what really happens when people become very, very old. To put it bluntly,

it sucks, and these people have plenty of money to take care of their physical

needs and also family to help. They may be going through a lot, but they are

not alone nor are they poor. My chances for having anyone around or having any

money to take care of myself are pretty much nil, and I know that.

> >

> > So I look back at a childhood that was abominably shitty, a young adulthood

that was spent pretty much ruining my own chances for happiness and success,

even though it *looked* like I was doing the right things, and now here I am at

midlife, and the future is in all probability, crap as well. I just have a

really hard time enjoying anything at all knowing this. I still work hard

struggling to get ahead, but it's a whole different experience when you know you

can't assume anymore that anything will pay off or that anything will be OK.

> >

> > I don't know what this post is about. I guess I just think that people

who've had positive experiences to look back on, can have more faith *because*

they can look back on good things that actually happened. I don't expect good

things to happen anymore at all.

> >

> > *shrugs*

> >

> > --LL.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I hate to say it, but most of those " every single little moments " are just

plain...yuck.

I used to be able to jolly myself into that viewpoint...8 years ago. Because I

could think, " This won't always be this way...one day I will be able to change

the circumstances I am in...when I go home I can work on that again, " I could

ignore how much I really didn't like what I was doing and try to get involved in

the circumstances, the people, and all the rest of it and have a good time

anyway.

But you can only shine it on for so long. I am a poor fit for my job. I don't

like it. I've never liked it. I've struggled for twenty years with this.

Another twenty isn't going to make any difference. I'm so sick of having to

smile and lie and act and act and act. I need to make a change.

And now I'm right up against how impossible it is.

At some point in their lives, people need what they need. That's just the way

it is. I need to be able to get up in the morning and actually like what I have

to do that day. I need enough money. Period.

And the odds here are very, very bad. If I really can't make the changes I need

to make, how am I going to survive the next 40 years like this? The first 43

were shitty enough.

[Guest guest]

If it doesn't work for you it doesn't, but what I wrote about has its basis in

meditation. It is possible to turn up the color on your life even if your outer

circumstances haven't changed. Believe me I've made this work in some really

awful circumstances - I'm not blowing sunshine up your **** !

If I remember right you are doing elder care for two people with mental trouble?

How is that going? Is there any option for you to say no and have them go to

nursing homes? If I were dealing with that it would be very hard for me also.

I have two PD'd relatives who I will be responsible for so I'm looking at some

similar troubles ahead. It seems like there's nothing like being on the spot

where your contributions mean someone gets to live independently or not to

produce a sense of incredible burden - even when nothing is going wrong. Do

you have any support like a therapist or other caregivers?

>

> I hate to say it, but most of those " every single little moments " are just

plain...yuck.

>

> I used to be able to jolly myself into that viewpoint...8 years ago. Because

I could think, " This won't always be this way...one day I will be able to change

the circumstances I am in...when I go home I can work on that again, " I could

ignore how much I really didn't like what I was doing and try to get involved in

the circumstances, the people, and all the rest of it and have a good time

anyway.

>

> But you can only shine it on for so long. I am a poor fit for my job. I

don't like it. I've never liked it. I've struggled for twenty years with this.

Another twenty isn't going to make any difference. I'm so sick of having to

smile and lie and act and act and act. I need to make a change.

>

> And now I'm right up against how impossible it is.

>

> At some point in their lives, people need what they need. That's just the way

it is. I need to be able to get up in the morning and actually like what I have

to do that day. I need enough money. Period.

>

> And the odds here are very, very bad. If I really can't make the changes I

need to make, how am I going to survive the next 40 years like this? The first

43 were shitty enough.

>

[Guest guest]

I struggle with this. How could I not when nada modeled a pit of misery so

often? What has saved me most of my life is being a " solver " -- I am always

looking for ways to turn a crappy situation into a good one.

I prefer to think of myself as " realistic " instead of pessimistic.

But as I am getting closer to 50 I am having a more difficult time. I look at

the fact I never finished college (who wants to now?). I work at a job I hate,

and I'm not trained for anything else. What physical beauty I had is all sliding

south with middle age spread, and peri-menopause issues make me hate being a

woman. I have many health problems related to the PTSD I suffered at nada's

knee.

My mother won't die, my dad is an dishrag. I still have huge problems with

authority figures. I have no formal religion.

But I have the love of a good man and 2 children who are finding their way into

adulthood, unfettered by parental bs. And a wonderful sister who shares growing

up war stories with me.

I've got to focus on the good, or the rest will bury me.

>

> Is anyone else on here a huge pessimist?

>

[Guest guest]

I can relate Roganda. Does anybody else think maybe there is a relation to

pessimism/hopelessness and fleas? My nada/fada were over-the-top negative,

complainers, pessimists, imbittered by life, etc.

Early in my adulthood I had to work hard to shed this flea; consciously enjoying

a moment such as the cat stroking up against my leg while I cook my favourite

meal and letting go of the overwhelming anxiety/worry/and stress I felt

CONSTANTLY. I also realized it's IMPOSSIBLE to feel good in every moment. Just

some, if I try.

Roganda, are you overburdended with having to provide care for others? There's

nothing worse than being expected to give of yourself when there's nothing left.

My heart goes out to you, I can hear how deeply your pain goes.........

What about reaching out to close, trusted friends? Sometimes I find if I am

brutally honest with a trusted friend about how hopeless/depressed and

craptacular I feel, and bluntly ask for a boost, most people are willing to

oblige. Have you tried this when it gets really bad?

Also, it sounds like this has been a life-long struggle for you (as with me

too), what does your therapist say? Have you explored options regarding

alternate Doctors and/or therapists/ pursuing treatments. I guess my point is to

keep asking questions about how to make life less painful, to anybody who will

listen (in the professional sense).

Do you believe it can change? I didn't think I could feel joy whatsoever until I

was in my twenties, but it got better for me. I still have a lot of

regrets/financial burdens/anxiety/depression bouts/lonliness but now in my

thirties, in spite of these things, it's slowly getting better. I wouldn't stop

until I found ways to heal but it's different for everybody.

Hugs from HF

[Guest guest]

I think it has so much to do with most of our life having been relentlessly bad.

When you grow up the way we did you aren't equipped to make good choices in

life, so careers, relationships, money, time, and on and on are just primed to

go badly. When you had a good childhood and you hit a bad spot...you're coming

into it with love, happiness, good memories, and a lot of support already in the

bank. When you had a shitty childhood and a shitty young adulthood, and you hit

yet ANOTHER bad patch...you're already depleted almost down to nothing. It's

like, God, Come on. I need good, not bad. Can Anybody up there read??

Then, look at the economy. People with college degrees these days can't afford

with a two-income household what our non-college educated parents and

grandparents did with a one-income household. Unless some bolt from the blue

strikes and you get incredibly, incredibly lucky (and in the writing field this

happens to maybe one person a year), the financial outlook for most people of my

generation...well, it sucks. I mean, all we need is 2 grand for us to be able

to take off work for one week and go to the beach this summer. Last year was

the first year we actually had that. This year we don't. *sigh*

I don't have a therapist. It's all I can do to scrape together money for a gyno

visit. Had to skip it last year, lack of money. I had friends around here

once, but everybody's moved. Time for friendly get-togethers has been sorely

lacking in the past two years anyway.

I finally had to cut down on time spent with the relatives in question.

Christmas was just wayyy over the top with family responsibilities, I got sick

in February, and then March was once again replete with doctor visits, doctor

visits, doctor visits. I. Could. Not. Do. It. Any. More.

So I cut back, but my spirit is realllly taking its time bouncing out of the

hole. I think if I could have exercised this spring, walked out around the

river and the canal walk and admired the beautiful flowers the way I usually do

in the spring, it would have been helpful, but I really messed my ankle up last

summer and ignoring it was just making it worse. I finally had to just quit

doing any exercise at all. It's finally getting better, but my waistline looks

like my grandmother's and I feel FAT and SLUGGISH. I am seeing a physical

therapist for it who sees people once a month for free at the Y. Thank God for

the rehab exercises he gave me, because I have basically been hobbling around in

pain for nine months.

Today I was off. I drove out to the beach and went to this little park and then

just sat on the beach and reread some of my writing. By the end of the day I

felt a lot better, but most of the day the funk was still hangin' around. I

just need more good stuff and less crap.

It just seems like, in a country of some 115 million people, only a very select

few get anything like a decent life, and the rest of us are beating ourselves

shitless for nothing. We did as we were told...still we can't even afford the

very basics. What's wrong here?

Sorry to come in here and dump. Thank you for listening.

--.

[Guest guest]

,

Have you tried St. s Wort? Everything you say I do agree with but I

can't totally agree or I'd kill myself. I feel the negative is in a way

easier because its always right. Yes, everything falls apart. I have been

depressed and I have already said I did try to kill myself sooooo I do

relate. I hope you get your mojo back!

>

>

> I think it has so much to do with most of our life having been relentlessly

> bad. When you grow up the way we did you aren't equipped to make good

> choices in life, so careers, relationships, money, time, and on and on are

> just primed to go badly. When you had a good childhood and you hit a bad

> spot...you're coming into it with love, happiness, good memories, and a lot

> of support already in the bank. When you had a shitty childhood and a shitty

> young adulthood, and you hit yet ANOTHER bad patch...you're already depleted

> almost down to nothing. It's like, God, Come on. I need good, not bad. Can

> Anybody up there read??

>

> Then, look at the economy. People with college degrees these days can't

> afford with a two-income household what our non-college educated parents and

> grandparents did with a one-income household. Unless some bolt from the blue

> strikes and you get incredibly, incredibly lucky (and in the writing field

> this happens to maybe one person a year), the financial outlook for most

> people of my generation...well, it sucks. I mean, all we need is 2 grand for

> us to be able to take off work for one week and go to the beach this summer.

> Last year was the first year we actually had that. This year we don't.

> *sigh*

>

> I don't have a therapist. It's all I can do to scrape together money for a

> gyno visit. Had to skip it last year, lack of money. I had friends around

> here once, but everybody's moved. Time for friendly get-togethers has been

> sorely lacking in the past two years anyway.

>

> I finally had to cut down on time spent with the relatives in question.

> Christmas was just wayyy over the top with family responsibilities, I got

> sick in February, and then March was once again replete with doctor visits,

> doctor visits, doctor visits. I. Could. Not. Do. It. Any. More.

>

> So I cut back, but my spirit is realllly taking its time bouncing out of

> the hole. I think if I could have exercised this spring, walked out around

> the river and the canal walk and admired the beautiful flowers the way I

> usually do in the spring, it would have been helpful, but I really messed my

> ankle up last summer and ignoring it was just making it worse. I finally had

> to just quit doing any exercise at all. It's finally getting better, but my

> waistline looks like my grandmother's and I feel FAT and SLUGGISH. I am

> seeing a physical therapist for it who sees people once a month for free at

> the Y. Thank God for the rehab exercises he gave me, because I have

> basically been hobbling around in pain for nine months.

>

> Today I was off. I drove out to the beach and went to this little park and

> then just sat on the beach and reread some of my writing. By the end of the

> day I felt a lot better, but most of the day the funk was still hangin'

> around. I just need more good stuff and less crap.

>

> It just seems like, in a country of some 115 million people, only a very

> select few get anything like a decent life, and the rest of us are beating

> ourselves shitless for nothing. We did as we were told...still we can't even

> afford the very basics. What's wrong here?

>

> Sorry to come in here and dump. Thank you for listening.

>

> --.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This article explains a big reason for my negative outlook:

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2011020612/understanding-extreme-incomewealt\

h-gap

[Guest guest]

I agree the wealth gap in this country is really awful. More than the moral

question of whether it's right for a few to have so much, I am bothered by how

far down so many can fall. I guess the two are linked together in many

ways...but I don't want to get too political here.

Relating this back to BPD though after I read your link I was thinking about my

nada and realized the money has always been such a huge problem. In our country

elderly people who have no money and no strong social ties are basically

screwed. They end up in the worst all Medicaid state run nursing homes -

conditions we ourselves would be horrified to be in. I know so many say we

don't owe our parents anything, but if *that* is what faces them if we don't

intervene how does one walk away? People are living longer and longer though

the extended life is usually poor quality and they are propped up by the younger

generations. None of us want to have an extended miserable old age and none of

us want to be that previous generation they lean on for years, decades

especially when the parent has something like BPD.

I've wandered far afield but yes I agree the wealth-gap helps to fuel the

damage having a nada can do to a KO at all stages of life.

>

> This article explains a big reason for my negative outlook:

>

>

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2011020612/understanding-extreme-incomewealt\

h-gap

>

[Guest guest]

I'm not going to watch this. Sounds like its not about bpd. This group is for

people who have suffered a lot from bpd parents. Defending the validity of ones

pessimism is not the issue. Trying to get through it is. I will speak for myself

I'm a little fragile emotionally so I don't need to brought down, not any more

than I already am by having the parents and relatives that I do. This reminds me

of what my bpd father always said about my bpd mother " misery loves company " .

Don't mean to be hurtful or insensitive and I wish you much luck in feeling

more positive if that is your goal. If your goal is to feel bad and to prove to

yourself and others that you are justified in feeling bad, well, count me out. I

don't know your circumstances and I believe you when you say you're unhappy at

your job and that's a really awful thing.

I know my mind likes to get negative and that I need to tell it to stop it.

There are LOTS of things to be unhappy about, my pet grudge is the rottonness of

people including myself at times, but I also force myself to remember to be

grateful for what I do have. Good luck with your journey again hope you feel

better if that is your goal.

----------

Please excuse any typos or terseness, this message was sent from a mobile

device.

Re: Pessimism and being the child of a nada

This article explains a big reason for my negative outlook:

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2011020612/understanding-extreme-incomewealt\

h-gap

[Guest guest]

I guess we are all coming from different places, emotionally, due to our

different backgrounds, vulnerabilities, current situations, and different kinds

of abuse we endured.

Me personally, although I am not rich or famous and not likely to become so, I

admire those who have worked hard and achieved wealth and success through their

own efforts.

I wish I could be as successful!

While in a way it doesn't seem fair that some people simply inherit great wealth

due to the sheer luck of being born to rich parents (such individuals do not

" deserve " the wealth any more than you or I " deserved " the abuse we received;

its just fate)... I truly do not begrudge the rewards earned by those who put

out great effort, sometimes at great personal risk, and I admire the sheer

determination that it takes to achieve the kinds of wealth that the link you

provided shows.

I cheer when someone in my profession makes that breakthrough that gets them

some much-deserved recognition and financial rewards, I truly do. And I find it

inspiring.

Perhaps the difference in our thinking is that for whatever reason, although my

nada pretty much destroyed my ability to have a normal, healthy adult life

regarding love and marriage, she encouraged me to develop my talents and have a

career in that field. It gives me great pleasure and satisfaction to be able to

earn a living in my chosen field. Not wealth, mind you. But I am

self-supporting, and that does mean a lot to me.

But one of the reasons I am in No Contact with nada is that she expected, nay,

*demanded* that I too become rich and famous, and she would sniff at and

critique my small successes to my face while exaggerating them to her

friends/our relatives in way that made *me* look like a fraud and embarrassed me

horribly.

So, anyway. If someone for example spends 20 years writing their epic novel and

only gets it published after 10 more years of shopping it around, and then they

" suddenly " become famous and wealthy, then, I say " Good on you, well done, and

more power to you! "

-Annie

>

> This article explains a big reason for my negative outlook:

>

>

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2011020612/understanding-extreme-incomewealt\

h-gap

>