Hoarding and BPD?

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

I was just wondering if anyone else has noticed that hoarding and BPD seem to go

together? In my family my grandmother was a hoarder and had BPD and my BP sister

also hoards. My BP mother-in-law is an EXTREME hoarder with rooms you can't

enter they are so full and food rotting in the kitchen because she has no room

to store it and can't part with it. Has anyone else noticed this with their BP

relatives? I find this interesting because it adds another layer to the abuse

and neglect children suffer growing up in these already emotionally toxic

environments...

[Guest guest]

That is really interesting... I don't know if my nada is a hoarder exactly, but

she does hold onto A LOT of things that other people wouldn't, and she places

very high value on possessions, which does seem to be a theme with BPD...

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 2:47 PM

Subject: Hoarding and BPD?

 

Hi all,

I was just wondering if anyone else has noticed that hoarding and BPD seem to go

together? In my family my grandmother was a hoarder and had BPD and my BP sister

also hoards. My BP mother-in-law is an EXTREME hoarder with rooms you can't

enter they are so full and food rotting in the kitchen because she has no room

to store it and can't part with it. Has anyone else noticed this with their BP

relatives? I find this interesting because it adds another layer to the abuse

and neglect children suffer growing up in these already emotionally toxic

environments...

[Guest guest]

Perhaps hoarding can be. My nada gets real hot on hobbies, and then collects

things for the hobby WAY out of proportion to what she need.

We are talking about rooms full of picture frames/matting during the painting

period, and an attic full of basket making materials during that hobby. There is

probably more stuff easier to hide because it is less conspicuous--my nada likes

to outwardly appear to have a tidy home.

One thing she has started doing drives me nuts--she matches ALL her decorating

in the room--ivory, mauve and green. Even the damn Christmas tree last year

matched everything else in the living room--even the pictures on the walls and

the silk flowers. Then she complains she doesn't have any time--no kidding,

obsessively matching everything in your house to 3 colors must take lots of

shopping trips.

>

> Hi all,

>

> I was just wondering if anyone else has noticed that hoarding and BPD seem to

go together? In my family my grandmother was a hoarder and had BPD and my BP

sister also hoards. My BP mother-in-law is an EXTREME hoarder with rooms you

can't enter they are so full and food rotting in the kitchen because she has no

room to store it and can't part with it. Has anyone else noticed this with their

BP relatives? I find this interesting because it adds another layer to the

abuse and neglect children suffer growing up in these already emotionally toxic

environments...

>

[Guest guest]

My nada is definitely a hoarder, although not as severe as some-- you can

generally navigate rooms, but they are all cluttered, every surface has a pile

on it, and the house is always filthy. She has three dogs and two cats, so

there's pet hair everywhere, too. The only reason, I think, the house isn't

worse than it is is that my dad bought two 8X8X20 shipping crates that they keep

in the backyard. They're full of junk.

BPD is often co-morbid with other disorders, and my mother most likely has some

kind of depression or anxiety disorder, but I have a theory that hoarding goes

along with her BPD detachment from reality. Everything she has is part of the

hypothetical life she's going to have one day, when she wins the lottery, loses

weight, and leaves my father. For example, she has a baby grand piano that you

can't open because it's covered in junk. It never gets tuned. No one in her

house plays piano. I'm pretty sure she has it because it fills her fantasy of

the kind of life she wants, but doesn't have, in which we all spend holidays

clustered around the piano, singing Christmas carols.

I spent my childhood thinking the house was always a mess because my brother and

I were lazy slobs who never did our chores. I was so relieved when, after living

on my own for six months, I realized my house was always clean, because I was,

in fact, a very neat person by nature. The reason our house was such a mess when

I was young was that there was so much crap filling every corner that it was

impossible to clean. We had a never-ending laundry pile that was 3/4 rags and

unwearable clothing that we weren't allowed to throw away. You're absolutely

right that it adds another layer to the abuse we experienced.

>

> Hi all,

>

> I was just wondering if anyone else has noticed that hoarding and BPD seem to

go together? In my family my grandmother was a hoarder and had BPD and my BP

sister also hoards. My BP mother-in-law is an EXTREME hoarder with rooms you

can't enter they are so full and food rotting in the kitchen because she has no

room to store it and can't part with it. Has anyone else noticed this with their

BP relatives? I find this interesting because it adds another layer to the

abuse and neglect children suffer growing up in these already emotionally toxic

environments...

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, this topic comes up from time to time here at the Group.

Some nadas fall into the living-in-filth end of the spectrum to the point where

rats, cockroaches, fleas, tics and other vermin swarm around unmolested, while

other nadas fall into the hyper-clean-and-organized end of the spectrum, to the

point where the house doesn't look lived in, and the slightest smudge or

misplaced object is cause for extreme stress, screaming rages and other acting

out behaviors.

Either end of the " too clean vs too filthy " spectrum of behaviors can include

hoarding behaviors as well.

Both extremes are indicative of mental disorder and are highly abusive to the

other family members, but those who expose their children to filthy living

conditions are definitely endangering their children's health and sometimes

children are even removed from the home if its discovered that they're covered

in flea or roach bites, lice, ticks, have been bitten by rats, or are developing

things like asthma due to living in filth.

My own nada is of the obsessively clean and hyper-organized variety; any kind of

dirt or mess/disorder made her very upset.

My Sister and I would get screamed at if we didn't fold the towels " the right

way " or make up our beds " the right way " or if we spilled something

accidentally. And, strangely enough, in her later years my nada has started

hoarding things but she does it very, very neatly. Everything is in clear

plastic boxes and carefully labeled.

I've read that the obsessive neatness and compulsive cleaning and getting

freaked out by disorder, AND the hoarding are due to obsessive-compulsive

*personality disorder*, which oddly isn't the same thing as obsessive-compulsive

disorder. I've also read that the living-in-filth thing is a peculiar sub-set

of ocpd; counter-intuitively, it too is all about control: maintaining absolute

control over their possessions.

So, yes. Nadas can be hoarders, but hoarding is not one of the diagnostic

criteria for bpd. I believe its one of the diagnostic criteria for ocpd. So if

nada is a hoarder, then she may possibly have a co-morbidity with another

personality disorder.

If any of us know children who are being forced to live in filthy conditions, I

personally would feel obligated to report this to Child Protective Services. No

child deserves to grow up exposed to decaying garbage swarming with germs,

sleeping on crusty, urine-soaked mattresses, and being eaten alive by vermin.

Parents who allow their children to be exposed to such conditions are too

mentally ill to be allowed to raise them. Such children need rescuing, very

desperately.

-Annie

>

> Hi all,

>

> I was just wondering if anyone else has noticed that hoarding and BPD seem to

go together? In my family my grandmother was a hoarder and had BPD and my BP

sister also hoards. My BP mother-in-law is an EXTREME hoarder with rooms you

can't enter they are so full and food rotting in the kitchen because she has no

room to store it and can't part with it. Has anyone else noticed this with their

BP relatives? I find this interesting because it adds another layer to the

abuse and neglect children suffer growing up in these already emotionally toxic

environments...

>

[Guest guest]

My nada has some hoarding aspects as well too. I remember growing up so

ashamed of how we lived and she always told me it was because we were poor.

When I finally got out on my own as a student living on a tiny stipend, I

discovered that being poor does not equal living in filth. I felt I'd been

duped my whole life! Her BPD connects into this because of her extreme

emotional reactions to being criticized in ANY way. No one could tell her

anything, and when they tried - they paid for it. That is still true to this

day. I still won't say anything to her unless the issue involves a very direct

health risk to her or her pets.

Eliza

>

> Hi all,

>

> I was just wondering if anyone else has noticed that hoarding and BPD seem to

go together? In my family my grandmother was a hoarder and had BPD and my BP

sister also hoards. My BP mother-in-law is an EXTREME hoarder with rooms you

can't enter they are so full and food rotting in the kitchen because she has no

room to store it and can't part with it. Has anyone else noticed this with their

BP relatives? I find this interesting because it adds another layer to the

abuse and neglect children suffer growing up in these already emotionally toxic

environments...

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone for your responses about this. This does seem to be another form

of Nada control and I have so much empathy for anyone else who has lived under

hoarding (or obsessively clean conditions)! I'm glad tv is now bringing this

issue to light and showing it as the illness it is.

Anuria-That is interesting about OCPD, never heard of it before. I'll have to

research it as I think this may be an issue for some of my relatives.

For my childhood, and my husband's the mess was a form of control and a way of

binding everyone together against the rest of the world. The family had to stick

together and hide the terrible secret of the mess from others. It certainly

accomplished the Nada's need for control and isolation of family-especially in

my husband's case. Friends were not allowed to visit and social worker types

were kept away at all costs. As children, it never occurred to any of us, that

people like that could help. The shame from the mess was so deep and we blamed

ourselves for it, so it made sense that others would blame us too...

Another layer to this-both my " grand " nada (she raised me) and my husband's nada

were professionals with good reputations in the community (a teacher and a

nurse). When CPS was called (in my husband's case-not sure about mine-they

should have been) His nada used all of her charm and professionalism, and the

worker never even visited the house! I work in a social services type job today,

and I never ever let the way people present themselves stop me from doing my job

properly! My husband went to school as a small child unable to use his arm

because it was broken (and was never treated-it healed on its own) and somehow

the social workers were deflected by his nada. I hope things have changed since

then (the early 80s).

[Guest guest]

That just gives me cold chills; your husband's mother was a nurse, and yet she

let let her own little boy suffer badly with an untreated BROKEN ARM for God's

sake, and presented such a convincing professional persona or mask in public

that she got away with it.

Now, see, to me that level of deliberate sadism screams " psychopath! "

The psychopath is able to display a convincing " mask of sanity " and even charm

and admirable professionalism to the public, while committing (or allowing)

hideous acts in private.

Not all psychopaths are ax murderers or serial killers; some are just " garden

variety " psychopaths, as discussed in " The Sociopath Next Door. " (Sociopath is

an earlier/outdated term for psychopath.)

Psychopaths have all the traits of narcissistic pd and antisocial pd PLUS lack

of having any conscience (a sense of right and wrong) and lack of remorse.

Psychopaths have the narcissist's lack of empathy and the narcissist's sense of

entitlement to do what they want, when they want, because they deserve special

treatment for being superior. Narcissists, ASPDs and Psychopaths view other

human beings as things put on earth for their use, we're objects with no

feelings.

Another peculiar trait of psychopaths, according to Dr. Hare, who

developed the Hare Psychopathy Checklist (the gold-standard diagnostic tool for

psychopathy) is that if they undergo psychological therapy, it only teaches them

how people " tick " and allows them to become much, much better at manipulating

people. Its like a valuable course in how to be a better psychopath. Totally

creepy!

So as a trained RN, your husband's mother very likely had some training in

psychology, which helped her charm and deflect another professional's inquiries

about her child probably very easily.

Its so chilling to think of a helpless little child being dependent on love and

care from psychopathic mother. Its sort of like being raised by a shark. I'm

glad your husband and you survived.

-Annie

>

> Another layer to this-both my " grand " nada (she raised me) and my husband's

nada were professionals with good reputations in the community (a teacher and a

nurse). When CPS was called (in my husband's case-not sure about mine-they

should have been) His nada used all of her charm and professionalism, and the

worker never even visited the house! I work in a social services type job today,

and I never ever let the way people present themselves stop me from doing my job

properly! My husband went to school as a small child unable to use his arm

because it was broken (and was never treated-it healed on its own) and somehow

the social workers were deflected by his nada. I hope things have changed since

then (the early 80s).

>