When nada doesn't cycle back to love and stays in hate

[Guest guest]

Is this a result of boundaries?

I am just really feeling alone lately and missing my " mom " - the side of her

that acts loving and caring. In the past she has cycled from love to hate to

love to hate and I know when she is angry and accusing me, soon thereafter she

cycles back to " loving, caring " mom.

As I have begun putting a distance between us and setting boundaries with her -

ESPECIALLY after I hung up on her recently - she seems stuck in the hate cycle.

I truly believe the hate cycle towards me is here to stay.

She has removed me and my brothers from her will, naming her sisters instead.

She has removed me as emergency contact off everything at work, church, etc.

I think this is just her " cutting me off " because she is so pissed that I'm

putting up boundaries.

She has even started calling my husband now, which she has never done before.

She left him a message yesterday requesting our 3 year old to come spend the

night this weekend, which of course we are not going to allow unsupervised

visits.

As much as I KNOW in my head that I am not at fault and am not a " bad person "

the act of her cutting me off and permanently naming me as the bad seed is

difficult to deal with.

One way I have always coped with the hateful, angry mom is that she cycles back

to the loving mom eventually. But that is not going to happen again. The last

few times I talked to her she put on a very forced, fake-happy syrupy sweet

demeanor that was so obviously phony it was nauseating.

I know I never had a genuine, loving caring mom who just wanted to BE a mom to

ME but I enjoyed the times she at least acted that way.

Hope I'm making sense. Just trying to sort through all of this crap.

[Guest guest]

Hi big sister,

The cycle you're describing is *exactly* what I went through for about 4 months

leading up to my choosing NC. I had this lovely dysfunctional coping strategy:

When nada throws a shitstorm over something, just retreat, apologize regardless

of who is at fault and wait a few days. Then there will be 2 or 3 months of

peace before the next storm.

Unfortunately, when the storms got too frequent, I had to put up some

boundaries, and the boundaries meant that the sweet nada never came around. It

also meant that my dysfunctional coping strategy no longer worked. I'd apologize

and back away for a few days, but then when I came back... it was not sweet nada

that I found! It was a still angry, big victim nada, ready to keep the storm

going and throw blame and hurt at me!

So, I hope it helps to hear that you're not alone in this emotional struggle. I

find myself missing sweet nada, too, and even though I know she wasn't " real, "

it still hurts.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2011 10:59 AM

Subject: When nada doesn't cycle back to " love " and stays in

" hate "

 

Is this a result of boundaries?

I am just really feeling alone lately and missing my " mom " - the side of her

that acts loving and caring. In the past she has cycled from love to hate to

love to hate and I know when she is angry and accusing me, soon thereafter she

cycles back to " loving, caring " mom.

As I have begun putting a distance between us and setting boundaries with her -

ESPECIALLY after I hung up on her recently - she seems stuck in the hate cycle.

I truly believe the hate cycle towards me is here to stay.

She has removed me and my brothers from her will, naming her sisters instead.

She has removed me as emergency contact off everything at work, church, etc.

I think this is just her " cutting me off " because she is so pissed that I'm

putting up boundaries.

She has even started calling my husband now, which she has never done before.

She left him a message yesterday requesting our 3 year old to come spend the

night this weekend, which of course we are not going to allow unsupervised

visits.

As much as I KNOW in my head that I am not at fault and am not a " bad person "

the act of her cutting me off and permanently naming me as the bad seed is

difficult to deal with.

One way I have always coped with the hateful, angry mom is that she cycles back

to the loving mom eventually. But that is not going to happen again. The last

few times I talked to her she put on a very forced, fake-happy syrupy sweet

demeanor that was so obviously phony it was nauseating.

I know I never had a genuine, loving caring mom who just wanted to BE a mom to

ME but I enjoyed the times she at least acted that way.

Hope I'm making sense. Just trying to sort through all of this crap.

[Guest guest]

I am sorry you are hurting--if it helps at all, I am now the perpetual " all bad "

kid now after being the enmeshed golden child most of my life. That is because I

started saying no to nada, stopped enabling her daily flights of fancy and

started setting serious boundaries.

It hurts--knowing that easy camaraderie you shared with nada in the good times

is probably over forever. I spoke with my T about it last session, so she told

me the story about intermittent reinforcement and the rat:

If a rat knows he has to hit a bar 5x to get a treat, then one day the treat is

removed, he almost immediately stops trying to get the treat.

If, on the other hand, the rat has been trained that he may get the treat after

5 hits, or 20 hits, or 99 hits, that rat keeps trying, since his reward has

always come eventually but inconsistently. He has been trained to never give up.

We BPD enmeshed kids are that rat.

I am grieving the loss of that easy camaraderie with my nada, but am also aware

that my relationship with her was not real intimacy--it was a false set of

conditions I enjoyed only when I behaved a certain way that supported my BPD

mother and denied my self.

Just remember you are not alone! This really, really, sucks. I am trying to

forge new relationships with healthy people, join groups, classes, etc. to try

to fill that void.

>

> Is this a result of boundaries?

>

> I am just really feeling alone lately and missing my " mom " - the side of her

that acts loving and caring. In the past she has cycled from love to hate to

love to hate and I know when she is angry and accusing me, soon thereafter she

cycles back to " loving, caring " mom.

>

> As I have begun putting a distance between us and setting boundaries with her

- ESPECIALLY after I hung up on her recently - she seems stuck in the hate

cycle. I truly believe the hate cycle towards me is here to stay.

>

> She has removed me and my brothers from her will, naming her sisters instead.

She has removed me as emergency contact off everything at work, church, etc.

>

> I think this is just her " cutting me off " because she is so pissed that I'm

putting up boundaries.

>

> She has even started calling my husband now, which she has never done before.

She left him a message yesterday requesting our 3 year old to come spend the

night this weekend, which of course we are not going to allow unsupervised

visits.

>

> As much as I KNOW in my head that I am not at fault and am not a " bad person "

the act of her cutting me off and permanently naming me as the bad seed is

difficult to deal with.

>

> One way I have always coped with the hateful, angry mom is that she cycles

back to the loving mom eventually. But that is not going to happen again. The

last few times I talked to her she put on a very forced, fake-happy syrupy sweet

demeanor that was so obviously phony it was nauseating.

>

> I know I never had a genuine, loving caring mom who just wanted to BE a mom to

ME but I enjoyed the times she at least acted that way.

>

> Hope I'm making sense. Just trying to sort through all of this crap.

>

[Guest guest]

Hey ,

This was my default strategy too. But when I stopped supporting/enabling 'nada

the victim', she no longer had a use for me--except now she uses her

estrangement from me to . . . drum roll . . . play Big Victim to everyone else

who will listen!

We really are dealing with 2 year olds in grown up skins <sigh>.

>>I'd apologize and back away for a few days, but then when I came back... it

was not sweet nada that I found! It was a still angry, big victim nada, ready to

keep the storm going and throw blame and hurt at me!

>

> So, I hope it helps to hear that you're not alone in this emotional struggle.

I find myself missing sweet nada, too, and even though I know she wasn't " real, "

it still hurts.

>

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2011 10:59 AM

> Subject: When nada doesn't cycle back to " love " and stays

in " hate "

>

>

>  

> Is this a result of boundaries?

>

> I am just really feeling alone lately and missing my " mom " - the side of her

that acts loving and caring. In the past she has cycled from love to hate to

love to hate and I know when she is angry and accusing me, soon thereafter she

cycles back to " loving, caring " mom.

>

> As I have begun putting a distance between us and setting boundaries with her

- ESPECIALLY after I hung up on her recently - she seems stuck in the hate

cycle. I truly believe the hate cycle towards me is here to stay.

>

> She has removed me and my brothers from her will, naming her sisters instead.

She has removed me as emergency contact off everything at work, church, etc.

>

> I think this is just her " cutting me off " because she is so pissed that I'm

putting up boundaries.

>

> She has even started calling my husband now, which she has never done before.

She left him a message yesterday requesting our 3 year old to come spend the

night this weekend, which of course we are not going to allow unsupervised

visits.

>

> As much as I KNOW in my head that I am not at fault and am not a " bad person "

the act of her cutting me off and permanently naming me as the bad seed is

difficult to deal with.

>

> One way I have always coped with the hateful, angry mom is that she cycles

back to the loving mom eventually. But that is not going to happen again. The

last few times I talked to her she put on a very forced, fake-happy syrupy sweet

demeanor that was so obviously phony it was nauseating.

>

> I know I never had a genuine, loving caring mom who just wanted to BE a mom to

ME but I enjoyed the times she at least acted that way.

>

> Hope I'm making sense. Just trying to sort through all of this crap.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you - both of you!

Yes, echo, that is what she is doing now. Playing Big Victim to everyone about

this whole ordeal. She even began her emotional hysterics on the phone with my

brother the other day saying " You have NO IDEA how many times I call and get

hung up on by her! the number of voicemails I leave that aren't returned!! "

Of course my brother has the 4-11 and told me this while saying " Don't worry, I

know you've only hung up on her once and she's probably only called you like

once or twice right? " .

It was supposed to be a big secret we got cut off her will (which the woman has

NO money, so no skin off anyone's nose) but we all found out and my brothers

were livid and both called her the same day to tell her off. (They are still in

the process of trying to learn how NOT to deal with her...)

But you're both right - when you stop meeting that need they have of being

enabled and stop sacrificing yourself, they could care less about you. If I were

enmeshed in everything she was doing, I would still be the golden child.

I just crave a mother figure in my life. A real one. That's just not something

you happen upon or go replace.

>

> Hey ,

>

> This was my default strategy too. But when I stopped supporting/enabling 'nada

the victim', she no longer had a use for me--except now she uses her

estrangement from me to . . . drum roll . . . play Big Victim to everyone else

who will listen!

>

> We really are dealing with 2 year olds in grown up skins <sigh>.

>

> >>I'd apologize and back away for a few days, but then when I came back... it

was not sweet nada that I found! It was a still angry, big victim nada, ready to

keep the storm going and throw blame and hurt at me!

> >

> > So, I hope it helps to hear that you're not alone in this emotional

struggle. I find myself missing sweet nada, too, and even though I know she

wasn't " real, " it still hurts.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: big_sister_03 <jf_nelms@>

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1

> > Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2011 10:59 AM

> > Subject: When nada doesn't cycle back to " love " and

stays in " hate "

> >

> >

> >  

> > Is this a result of boundaries?

> >

> > I am just really feeling alone lately and missing my " mom " - the side of her

that acts loving and caring. In the past she has cycled from love to hate to

love to hate and I know when she is angry and accusing me, soon thereafter she

cycles back to " loving, caring " mom.

> >

> > As I have begun putting a distance between us and setting boundaries with

her - ESPECIALLY after I hung up on her recently - she seems stuck in the hate

cycle. I truly believe the hate cycle towards me is here to stay.

> >

> > She has removed me and my brothers from her will, naming her sisters

instead. She has removed me as emergency contact off everything at work, church,

etc.

> >

> > I think this is just her " cutting me off " because she is so pissed that I'm

putting up boundaries.

> >

> > She has even started calling my husband now, which she has never done

before. She left him a message yesterday requesting our 3 year old to come spend

the night this weekend, which of course we are not going to allow unsupervised

visits.

> >

> > As much as I KNOW in my head that I am not at fault and am not a " bad

person " the act of her cutting me off and permanently naming me as the bad seed

is difficult to deal with.

> >

> > One way I have always coped with the hateful, angry mom is that she cycles

back to the loving mom eventually. But that is not going to happen again. The

last few times I talked to her she put on a very forced, fake-happy syrupy sweet

demeanor that was so obviously phony it was nauseating.

> >

> > I know I never had a genuine, loving caring mom who just wanted to BE a mom

to ME but I enjoyed the times she at least acted that way.

> >

> > Hope I'm making sense. Just trying to sort through all of this crap.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

" I am grieving the loss of that easy camaraderie with my nada, but am also

aware that my relationship with her was not real intimacy--it was a false set of

conditions I enjoyed only when I behaved a certain way that supported my BPD

mother and denied my self "

.... so so true for me as well. I have felt a lot of sadness, about the loss of

the " complicity " between me and my BP Mom. But the " complicity " was in

appearance, it wasn't a two way street, it was a one way street.

And ultimately what I thought I was gaining through the " complicity " couldn't

compare to what I was losing. I was losing a part of me, like a part of me was

literally eroding, fading away, enmeshed. Living to reflect someone, to service

someone's needs.

I think when you stopped just serving your BP Mom's needs, you see the

relationship for what it really truely is.

And the emptiness and sadness of the relationship cannot be hidden anymore. They

are obvious.

[Guest guest]

From what I read, it sounds to me that you are still detaching yourself from

your BP Mom and her illness.

I read your words, and they remind me of where I was emotionally with my BP Mom

at some point.

It takes a lot of time to get rid of these bad habits, to get rid of the old

ways of thinking and feelings, to see the relationship for what it really is.

It's like a change of environement, when you move to a new place I guess. It

takes a while to get used to the new space, the colors, where things are etc.

I am still working on " rewiring " myself so to speak. There is a lot of necessary

mourning that we have to go through, and I think it is important to acknowledge

that.

Sometimes we miss the things that we used to, just because they were familiar,

even if they were highly toxic for us.

It is a weird thing, but I think it's normal.

[Guest guest]

Hugs, I am kind of in the same place. My nada acts polite but she has just stuck

a big dagger in my back and she is enjoying it. I walked in tonight and her and

bpd SIL were sitting on the couch, literally almost in each other's laps,

looking at old photos.

It is okay to grief. I think it's necessary. This is a genuine loss, having to

cut ties with someone due to what is at this time at least, incurable mental

illness. Give yourself as much time as you need to grieve it, it's a death.

Screw that stupid will stuff, though, that is so manipulative. I am so over

that...my parents have nothing but there is cedar chest that the smiling

monster would not give me when my grandfather the rapist passed away, it was

willed to me but because I did not go see my rapist when he was sick in the

hospital she wouldn't allow me to have it. I will either set it on fire or

donate it to charity once she passes and it's mine, depending on what mood I am

in that day.

Sorry to dump my anger in your thread, I am just in alot of the emotions right

now.

>

> Is this a result of boundaries?

>

> I am just really feeling alone lately and missing my " mom " - the side of her

that acts loving and caring. In the past she has cycled from love to hate to

love to hate and I know when she is angry and accusing me, soon thereafter she

cycles back to " loving, caring " mom.

>

> As I have begun putting a distance between us and setting boundaries with her

- ESPECIALLY after I hung up on her recently - she seems stuck in the hate

cycle. I truly believe the hate cycle towards me is here to stay.

>

> She has removed me and my brothers from her will, naming her sisters instead.

She has removed me as emergency contact off everything at work, church, etc.

>

> I think this is just her " cutting me off " because she is so pissed that I'm

putting up boundaries.

>

> She has even started calling my husband now, which she has never done before.

She left him a message yesterday requesting our 3 year old to come spend the

night this weekend, which of course we are not going to allow unsupervised

visits.

>

> As much as I KNOW in my head that I am not at fault and am not a " bad person "

the act of her cutting me off and permanently naming me as the bad seed is

difficult to deal with.

>

> One way I have always coped with the hateful, angry mom is that she cycles

back to the loving mom eventually. But that is not going to happen again. The

last few times I talked to her she put on a very forced, fake-happy syrupy sweet

demeanor that was so obviously phony it was nauseating.

>

> I know I never had a genuine, loving caring mom who just wanted to BE a mom to

ME but I enjoyed the times she at least acted that way.

>

> Hope I'm making sense. Just trying to sort through all of this crap.

>

[Guest guest]

From everything you've shared with us, I personally think you're going to be in

such a better place to begin healing from all these wounds when you get your own

place and do not have to interact with your foo any longer.

Your family of origin is profoundly dysfunctional; they have betrayed you

repeatedly on many levels and they are not capable of change or even willing to

try, it would appear.

And more than that, any mother or dad who failed to protect their child from a

grandfather who raped her, failed to prosecute the perp to the fullest extent of

the law, and failed to get their child and themselves into therapy... such

persons do not deserve any loyalty.

They " tore up their parent cards " years ago. In my opinion.

-Annie

> >

> > Is this a result of boundaries?

> >

> > I am just really feeling alone lately and missing my " mom " - the side of her

that acts loving and caring. In the past she has cycled from love to hate to

love to hate and I know when she is angry and accusing me, soon thereafter she

cycles back to " loving, caring " mom.

> >

> > As I have begun putting a distance between us and setting boundaries with

her - ESPECIALLY after I hung up on her recently - she seems stuck in the hate

cycle. I truly believe the hate cycle towards me is here to stay.

> >

> > She has removed me and my brothers from her will, naming her sisters

instead. She has removed me as emergency contact off everything at work, church,

etc.

> >

> > I think this is just her " cutting me off " because she is so pissed that I'm

putting up boundaries.

> >

> > She has even started calling my husband now, which she has never done

before. She left him a message yesterday requesting our 3 year old to come spend

the night this weekend, which of course we are not going to allow unsupervised

visits.

> >

> > As much as I KNOW in my head that I am not at fault and am not a " bad

person " the act of her cutting me off and permanently naming me as the bad seed

is difficult to deal with.

> >

> > One way I have always coped with the hateful, angry mom is that she cycles

back to the loving mom eventually. But that is not going to happen again. The

last few times I talked to her she put on a very forced, fake-happy syrupy sweet

demeanor that was so obviously phony it was nauseating.

> >

> > I know I never had a genuine, loving caring mom who just wanted to BE a mom

to ME but I enjoyed the times she at least acted that way.

> >

> > Hope I'm making sense. Just trying to sort through all of this crap.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with you; I think its harder on those of us who have nadas that cycle

around and around from being " Dr. Jekyll " (nice, sweet, loving mom) to " Mr.

Hyde " (witchy, scary, hostile nada). I'm in that boat with you, and I think its

why I stayed and kept trying to remain in contact with my nada for so long: she

can be nice sometimes. And like you I missed " nice mom. "

But I guess each of us has to decide whether having a " nice mom " sometimes is

worth the gut-punching pain of enduring " nasty nada. "

At one point about three years ago, while nada was raging at Sister, nada said

something about me and Sister and Sister's son that was so very, very toxic and

untrue, that it just finally became clear to me that, " Wow, this is what my

mother actually believes about me, underneath it all. This is my mother's true

picture of me. She really despises me, if she believes I am capable of such a

thing. "

And that's what made me decide that when she was nice to me, it was just an act.

It was a manipulation; she didn't really mean it, she was just trying to lure me

in close to her again, make me trust her again (because I wanted to, so badly)

so she could " get me back " really good. So she could see the hurt on my face.

But, each of us has a different situation, each of our parents is different in

the degree of their dysfunction and how they express it.

We each have to figure out what will work for us.

-Annie

>

> Is this a result of boundaries?

>

> I am just really feeling alone lately and missing my " mom " - the side of her

that acts loving and caring. In the past she has cycled from love to hate to

love to hate and I know when she is angry and accusing me, soon thereafter she

cycles back to " loving, caring " mom.

>

> As I have begun putting a distance between us and setting boundaries with her

- ESPECIALLY after I hung up on her recently - she seems stuck in the hate

cycle. I truly believe the hate cycle towards me is here to stay.

>

> She has removed me and my brothers from her will, naming her sisters instead.

She has removed me as emergency contact off everything at work, church, etc.

>

> I think this is just her " cutting me off " because she is so pissed that I'm

putting up boundaries.

>

> She has even started calling my husband now, which she has never done before.

She left him a message yesterday requesting our 3 year old to come spend the

night this weekend, which of course we are not going to allow unsupervised

visits.

>

> As much as I KNOW in my head that I am not at fault and am not a " bad person "

the act of her cutting me off and permanently naming me as the bad seed is

difficult to deal with.

>

> One way I have always coped with the hateful, angry mom is that she cycles

back to the loving mom eventually. But that is not going to happen again. The

last few times I talked to her she put on a very forced, fake-happy syrupy sweet

demeanor that was so obviously phony it was nauseating.

>

> I know I never had a genuine, loving caring mom who just wanted to BE a mom to

ME but I enjoyed the times she at least acted that way.

>

> Hope I'm making sense. Just trying to sort through all of this crap.

>

[Guest guest]

thanks for saying so.

I have been so confused over the years about this. Because she really is the

'smiling monster', my mother. She's not histrionic.

I was thinking about someone I used to know earlier, whose parents died in her

teens. I think that she is the more fortunate one, in a sense, because the abuse

stopped at that moment.

I realize I am not going to be able to progress any further in my life with

healing while I am a part of these relationships. They have run their course.

> > >

> > > Is this a result of boundaries?

> > >

> > > I am just really feeling alone lately and missing my " mom " - the side of

her that acts loving and caring. In the past she has cycled from love to hate to

love to hate and I know when she is angry and accusing me, soon thereafter she

cycles back to " loving, caring " mom.

> > >

> > > As I have begun putting a distance between us and setting boundaries with

her - ESPECIALLY after I hung up on her recently - she seems stuck in the hate

cycle. I truly believe the hate cycle towards me is here to stay.

> > >

> > > She has removed me and my brothers from her will, naming her sisters

instead. She has removed me as emergency contact off everything at work, church,

etc.

> > >

> > > I think this is just her " cutting me off " because she is so pissed that

I'm putting up boundaries.

> > >

> > > She has even started calling my husband now, which she has never done

before. She left him a message yesterday requesting our 3 year old to come spend

the night this weekend, which of course we are not going to allow unsupervised

visits.

> > >

> > > As much as I KNOW in my head that I am not at fault and am not a " bad

person " the act of her cutting me off and permanently naming me as the bad seed

is difficult to deal with.

> > >

> > > One way I have always coped with the hateful, angry mom is that she cycles

back to the loving mom eventually. But that is not going to happen again. The

last few times I talked to her she put on a very forced, fake-happy syrupy sweet

demeanor that was so obviously phony it was nauseating.

> > >

> > > I know I never had a genuine, loving caring mom who just wanted to BE a

mom to ME but I enjoyed the times she at least acted that way.

> > >

> > > Hope I'm making sense. Just trying to sort through all of this crap.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Strongcookie- you are right. I am still

working on being completely detached from my mom and her illness.

I don't believe its coincidental that you should say this about being in a new

environment. Friday my T said the exact same thing and it me so much sense.

I think God wants me to hear this!! I was telling my T that I felt somewhat

guilty for being HAPPY and PEACEFUL that I was having no contact with mom and I

have no desire to see or talk to her right now.

Until now I had not realized how much time and energy I was spending

anticipating what she would say next and if would respond correctly.

I am So HAPPY without her toxic presence.

Thanks for all the great responses as always.

>

>

> From what I read, it sounds to me that you are still detaching yourself from

your BP Mom and her illness.

> I read your words, and they remind me of where I was emotionally with my BP

Mom at some point.

> It takes a lot of time to get rid of these bad habits, to get rid of the old

ways of thinking and feelings, to see the relationship for what it really is.

> It's like a change of environement, when you move to a new place I guess. It

takes a while to get used to the new space, the colors, where things are etc.

> I am still working on " rewiring " myself so to speak. There is a lot of

necessary mourning that we have to go through, and I think it is important to

acknowledge that.

> Sometimes we miss the things that we used to, just because they were familiar,

even if they were highly toxic for us.

> It is a weird thing, but I think it's normal.

>