SWOE: anyone else feel this?

[Guest guest]

This. I am at only bare minimum contact with my family (rare contact because I

have a niece whom I love dearly.) Best thing I've ever done for my own peace of

mind and healing. I've wasted 45 years trying to accommodate the crazy that is

my family.

>

> " Maybe I am just tired from 5 decades of Mom's unspoken, unacknowledged

> > > > illness, and how everyone else but her has been expected to make her

> > > > comfortable. I am tired and worn out; it's too much work to try to care

> > > > about a relationship with my 78 year old mother that will never be

> > healthy.

> > > >

> > > > Am I a monster to feel this way? I just feel I am DONE giving any more

> > > > energy to her or fada. It's a big waste of my time. "

>

> Amen and amen.

>

> And amen again.

>

> --LL.

>

[Guest guest]

Wonderful, pop culture analogy!

I was 15 or 16 when Luke was begging his father to turn back--and it hit such a

discordant note with me at the time that I hated that movie of the trilogy. Now,

years later & after the ups and downs of life I think it was the best of the

three and can appreciate all the layers.

I was certainly not interested in making nada happy by 15--my focus was on just

staying clear and out of the house. Even though I thought the problem was me, I

still had better survival instincts then, and a whole lot of guilt I refuse to

take on now.

>

> Some more thoughts:

>

> You know, I used to think about this a lot, and feel bad. Like, I'm this

person's daughter, I should go the extra mile for her. But I hated it. It was

overwhelming, it was just too much. Feeling like, I should be able to put

myself out there for this person who's my mother, who brought me into this

world, and then just having a sick stomach the instant I hear her voice, or see

an email from her on my screen...well, now you have a clear illustration of the

term, " cognitive dissonance. " (I think.)

>

> You know how I got the answer? Star Wars.

>

> No kidding, don't laugh. I didn't get to get into Star Wars when I was a kid,

or Star Trek, or anything else, because if I liked it, it was stupid. (I was

only supposed to like what nada liked.) So I had about a ten year period of

childhood regression, and wrote a lot of SW fan fic. (There's a whole online

community to play with, and I even deluded myself into thinking I could publish

it, because *one* famous author got the opportunity thirty years ago. Who wrote

that song, was it Simon... " Still crazy, after all these years " ?)

>

> But, in the course of writing fan fic, I stumbled upon the question: Why

couldn't I be as good as Luke? Here was Darth Vader, having killed all the

Jedi, and been the Emperor's evil henchman for twenty years, subjugating and

terrorizing everyone in the galaxy, and he even cuts Luke's HAND off, for

Chrissakes, and Luke can still forgive him and hold out for him to get better.

>

> Kind of makes you and me look like real shitheads, doesn't it?

>

> And then I thought deeply about this, and I hit on the answer. Luke can do

this because HE WASN'T THERE.

>

> He was not raised by this person. Luke was raised by a lot kinder parents,

and he was fed on dreams that his father was a much better person than he really

was. And every boy wants to know who his father is. Luke was raised in a kind

and supportive environment, with a deep father hunger. When Vader killed all

the Jedi, Luke was not there. When he knelt to the Emperor, Luke was not there.

When his father killed his mother, Luke was not there. (Well, he was too young

to remember.)

>

> All the bad things that Vader had done, were not personally experienced by

Luke. OK, Vadey cut his hand off, but both times Luke drew swords first, and it

was just this one experience of hurt. The fact that Luke hadn't personally been

hurt was the reason he could stand there and take the abuse.

>

> If he had've been there from the beginning, he would not have been able to do

this. We, my friends, have lost too much. We missed out on healthy experiences

we should have had, we turned right when we should have turned left, we didn't

learn what we needed to, and we were hurt over and over again by these people at

every turn.

>

> We don't have anything left to give our BPD's. They have beaten it right out

of us, in most cases literally. We don't even have what we need for ourselves.

>

> So, no, we can't be Luke Skywalker to our nadas' Darth Vader, AND WE SHOULDN'T

EXPECT OURSELVES TO.

>

> I just found a passage in Get Me Out Of Here where Reiland's therapist

says the exact same thing.

>

> --LL.

>

[Guest guest]

" inappropriate,

childish demands, pouting, ugly, hateful remarks, and even false accusations. "

except for the demands that sounds just like my mother. she does all of that

without raising her voice or acting angry. christ.

> >

> > I am 2/3 through SWOE and am gaining a much better understanding of myself.

But honestly, after reading the dialogue in the book and becoming fully informed

about BPD over this past year, I would not choose to cultivate a relationship

with one if I saw a way out. It is FAR too much work for the nonBPD.

> >

> > My parent I can keep at arms length. I would probably kick a BPD parter to

the curb. I can only see working at a relationship with a BPD if it was my

child.

> >

> > Not to say I do not feel sorry for the BPD, but enough is enough. They are

the ones mentally ill and driving everyone away. It seems like the nons still

have to jump through hoops, just a different set of hoops, just to survive.

> >

> > Maybe I am just tired from 5 decades of Mom's unspoken, unacknowledged

illness, and how everyone else but her has been expected to make her

comfortable. I am tired and worn out; it's too much work to try to care about a

relationship with my 78 year old mother that will never be healthy.

> >

> > Am I a monster to feel this way? I just feel I am DONE giving any more

energy to her or fada. It's a big waste of my time.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I absolutely agree. Its just hard, bc most of us have been programmed by our bpd

to be their own personal therapist (at least in my case). So any thoughts of our

own needs are automatically tossed aside. I can't even begin to tell how many

times my mother called me a selfish brat, way beyond my childhood years. It's

all about her. Even when she's having a good day, I'm constantly waiting for the

other shoe to drop, and putting on my armor to defend myself the only way I know

how. But at the same time, I am constantly mourning the loss of a meaningful

relationship with my mother. This is slightly embarrassing, but as a kid I used

to talk to trees like they were my mother, bc they never yelled at me or hit me

or made me feel worthless. I felt more unconditional love from trees than from

her. I guess at the end of the day, we just have to keep telling ourselves that

we don't deserve to be abused until we believe it.

-Em

> >

> > Some more thoughts:

> >

> > You know, I used to think about this a lot, and feel bad. Like, I'm this

person's daughter, I should go the extra mile for her. But I hated it. It was

overwhelming, it was just too much. Feeling like, I should be able to put

myself out there for this person who's my mother, who brought me into this

world, and then just having a sick stomach the instant I hear her voice, or see

an email from her on my screen...well, now you have a clear illustration of the

term, " cognitive dissonance. " (I think.)

> >

> > You know how I got the answer? Star Wars.

> >

> > No kidding, don't laugh. I didn't get to get into Star Wars when I was a

kid, or Star Trek, or anything else, because if I liked it, it was stupid. (I

was only supposed to like what nada liked.) So I had about a ten year period of

childhood regression, and wrote a lot of SW fan fic. (There's a whole online

community to play with, and I even deluded myself into thinking I could publish

it, because *one* famous author got the opportunity thirty years ago. Who wrote

that song, was it Simon... " Still crazy, after all these years " ?)

> >

> > But, in the course of writing fan fic, I stumbled upon the question: Why

couldn't I be as good as Luke? Here was Darth Vader, having killed all the

Jedi, and been the Emperor's evil henchman for twenty years, subjugating and

terrorizing everyone in the galaxy, and he even cuts Luke's HAND off, for

Chrissakes, and Luke can still forgive him and hold out for him to get better.

> >

> > Kind of makes you and me look like real shitheads, doesn't it?

> >

> > And then I thought deeply about this, and I hit on the answer. Luke can do

this because HE WASN'T THERE.

> >

> > He was not raised by this person. Luke was raised by a lot kinder parents,

and he was fed on dreams that his father was a much better person than he really

was. And every boy wants to know who his father is. Luke was raised in a kind

and supportive environment, with a deep father hunger. When Vader killed all

the Jedi, Luke was not there. When he knelt to the Emperor, Luke was not there.

When his father killed his mother, Luke was not there. (Well, he was too young

to remember.)

> >

> > All the bad things that Vader had done, were not personally experienced by

Luke. OK, Vadey cut his hand off, but both times Luke drew swords first, and it

was just this one experience of hurt. The fact that Luke hadn't personally been

hurt was the reason he could stand there and take the abuse.

> >

> > If he had've been there from the beginning, he would not have been able to

do this. We, my friends, have lost too much. We missed out on healthy

experiences we should have had, we turned right when we should have turned left,

we didn't learn what we needed to, and we were hurt over and over again by these

people at every turn.

> >

> > We don't have anything left to give our BPD's. They have beaten it right

out of us, in most cases literally. We don't even have what we need for

ourselves.

> >

> > So, no, we can't be Luke Skywalker to our nadas' Darth Vader, AND WE

SHOULDN'T EXPECT OURSELVES TO.

> >

> > I just found a passage in Get Me Out Of Here where Reiland's

therapist says the exact same thing.

> >

> > --LL.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I too, am in the midst of SWOE...I was overwhelmed with relief during the first

part of the book. I had never known that there were reasons for my bp mother's

behavior. I was really looking forward to the parts where you learn how to

better deal with bp behaviors, but upon reading further I found myself feeling a

little resentful. Why does it feel like all of the work must be on behalf of

the non-bp? In so many ways I felt like the book was attempting to teach me a

bunch of techniques that I had already figured out on my own. In other words,

ways that I have to react in order to avoid HER behaviors (as if I haven't

already been doing that my whole life).

I love my mom, and I realize that because of her bpd she reacts certain ways. I

can even sympathize with it. But how do I let go of the resentment that goes

along with having to constantly parent my parent?

oi!

-

>

> I am 2/3 through SWOE and am gaining a much better understanding of myself.

But honestly, after reading the dialogue in the book and becoming fully informed

about BPD over this past year, I would not choose to cultivate a relationship

with one if I saw a way out. It is FAR too much work for the nonBPD.

>

> My parent I can keep at arms length. I would probably kick a BPD parter to the

curb. I can only see working at a relationship with a BPD if it was my child.

>

> Not to say I do not feel sorry for the BPD, but enough is enough. They are the

ones mentally ill and driving everyone away. It seems like the nons still have

to jump through hoops, just a different set of hoops, just to survive.

>

> Maybe I am just tired from 5 decades of Mom's unspoken, unacknowledged

illness, and how everyone else but her has been expected to make her

comfortable. I am tired and worn out; it's too much work to try to care about a

relationship with my 78 year old mother that will never be healthy.

>

> Am I a monster to feel this way? I just feel I am DONE giving any more energy

to her or fada. It's a big waste of my time.

>

[Guest guest]

I knew I was a Star Wars junkie for a reason!

>

> Some more thoughts:

>

> You know, I used to think about this a lot, and feel bad. Like, I'm this

person's daughter, I should go the extra mile for her. But I hated it. It was

overwhelming, it was just too much. Feeling like, I should be able to put

myself out there for this person who's my mother, who brought me into this

world, and then just having a sick stomach the instant I hear her voice, or see

an email from her on my screen...well, now you have a clear illustration of the

term, " cognitive dissonance. " (I think.)

>

> You know how I got the answer? Star Wars.

>

> No kidding, don't laugh. I didn't get to get into Star Wars when I was a kid,

or Star Trek, or anything else, because if I liked it, it was stupid. (I was

only supposed to like what nada liked.) So I had about a ten year period of

childhood regression, and wrote a lot of SW fan fic. (There's a whole online

community to play with, and I even deluded myself into thinking I could publish

it, because *one* famous author got the opportunity thirty years ago. Who wrote

that song, was it Simon... " Still crazy, after all these years " ?)

>

> But, in the course of writing fan fic, I stumbled upon the question: Why

couldn't I be as good as Luke? Here was Darth Vader, having killed all the

Jedi, and been the Emperor's evil henchman for twenty years, subjugating and

terrorizing everyone in the galaxy, and he even cuts Luke's HAND off, for

Chrissakes, and Luke can still forgive him and hold out for him to get better.

>

> Kind of makes you and me look like real shitheads, doesn't it?

>

> And then I thought deeply about this, and I hit on the answer. Luke can do

this because HE WASN'T THERE.

>

> He was not raised by this person. Luke was raised by a lot kinder parents,

and he was fed on dreams that his father was a much better person than he really

was. And every boy wants to know who his father is. Luke was raised in a kind

and supportive environment, with a deep father hunger. When Vader killed all

the Jedi, Luke was not there. When he knelt to the Emperor, Luke was not there.

When his father killed his mother, Luke was not there. (Well, he was too young

to remember.)

>

> All the bad things that Vader had done, were not personally experienced by

Luke. OK, Vadey cut his hand off, but both times Luke drew swords first, and it

was just this one experience of hurt. The fact that Luke hadn't personally been

hurt was the reason he could stand there and take the abuse.

>

> If he had've been there from the beginning, he would not have been able to do

this. We, my friends, have lost too much. We missed out on healthy experiences

we should have had, we turned right when we should have turned left, we didn't

learn what we needed to, and we were hurt over and over again by these people at

every turn.

>

> We don't have anything left to give our BPD's. They have beaten it right out

of us, in most cases literally. We don't even have what we need for ourselves.

>

> So, no, we can't be Luke Skywalker to our nadas' Darth Vader, AND WE SHOULDN'T

EXPECT OURSELVES TO.

>

> I just found a passage in Get Me Out Of Here where Reiland's therapist

says the exact same thing.

>

> --LL.

>

[Guest guest]

There's absolutely no way I would choose to go through a relationship of pain

and struggling after a lifetime of it with a parent. You will never change her,

and she won't' change. So she's old- we all get old. That doesn't mean she is

suddenly going to be a good, healthy person. Why jump through hoops, when you

can attempt to maintain a cursory, civil relationship?

>

> I am 2/3 through SWOE and am gaining a much better understanding of myself.

But honestly, after reading the dialogue in the book and becoming fully informed

about BPD over this past year, I would not choose to cultivate a relationship

with one if I saw a way out. It is FAR too much work for the nonBPD.

>

> My parent I can keep at arms length. I would probably kick a BPD parter to the

curb. I can only see working at a relationship with a BPD if it was my child.

>

> Not to say I do not feel sorry for the BPD, but enough is enough. They are the

ones mentally ill and driving everyone away. It seems like the nons still have

to jump through hoops, just a different set of hoops, just to survive.

>

> Maybe I am just tired from 5 decades of Mom's unspoken, unacknowledged

illness, and how everyone else but her has been expected to make her

comfortable. I am tired and worn out; it's too much work to try to care about a

relationship with my 78 year old mother that will never be healthy.

>

> Am I a monster to feel this way? I just feel I am DONE giving any more energy

to her or fada. It's a big waste of my time.

>

[Guest guest]

I jstu have to say...

THIS. IS. AWESOME.

What a great analogy.

>

> Some more thoughts:

>

> You know, I used to think about this a lot, and feel bad. Like, I'm this

person's daughter, I should go the extra mile for her. But I hated it. It was

overwhelming, it was just too much. Feeling like, I should be able to put

myself out there for this person who's my mother, who brought me into this

world, and then just having a sick stomach the instant I hear her voice, or see

an email from her on my screen...well, now you have a clear illustration of the

term, " cognitive dissonance. " (I think.)

>

> You know how I got the answer? Star Wars.

>

> No kidding, don't laugh. I didn't get to get into Star Wars when I was a kid,

or Star Trek, or anything else, because if I liked it, it was stupid. (I was

only supposed to like what nada liked.) So I had about a ten year period of

childhood regression, and wrote a lot of SW fan fic. (There's a whole online

community to play with, and I even deluded myself into thinking I could publish

it, because *one* famous author got the opportunity thirty years ago. Who wrote

that song, was it Simon... " Still crazy, after all these years " ?)

>

> But, in the course of writing fan fic, I stumbled upon the question: Why

couldn't I be as good as Luke? Here was Darth Vader, having killed all the

Jedi, and been the Emperor's evil henchman for twenty years, subjugating and

terrorizing everyone in the galaxy, and he even cuts Luke's HAND off, for

Chrissakes, and Luke can still forgive him and hold out for him to get better.

>

> Kind of makes you and me look like real shitheads, doesn't it?

>

> And then I thought deeply about this, and I hit on the answer. Luke can do

this because HE WASN'T THERE.

>

> He was not raised by this person. Luke was raised by a lot kinder parents,

and he was fed on dreams that his father was a much better person than he really

was. And every boy wants to know who his father is. Luke was raised in a kind

and supportive environment, with a deep father hunger. When Vader killed all

the Jedi, Luke was not there. When he knelt to the Emperor, Luke was not there.

When his father killed his mother, Luke was not there. (Well, he was too young

to remember.)

>

> All the bad things that Vader had done, were not personally experienced by

Luke. OK, Vadey cut his hand off, but both times Luke drew swords first, and it

was just this one experience of hurt. The fact that Luke hadn't personally been

hurt was the reason he could stand there and take the abuse.

>

> If he had've been there from the beginning, he would not have been able to do

this. We, my friends, have lost too much. We missed out on healthy experiences

we should have had, we turned right when we should have turned left, we didn't

learn what we needed to, and we were hurt over and over again by these people at

every turn.

>

> We don't have anything left to give our BPD's. They have beaten it right out

of us, in most cases literally. We don't even have what we need for ourselves.

>

> So, no, we can't be Luke Skywalker to our nadas' Darth Vader, AND WE SHOULDN'T

EXPECT OURSELVES TO.

>

> I just found a passage in Get Me Out Of Here where Reiland's therapist

says the exact same thing.

>

> --LL.

>

[Guest guest]

EXACTLY! We were trained since birth to rescue them, enable them, cover for

them. The boundary setting is one thing, but some of the dialogue suggestions

seem to be just another extension of carrying them.

No matter what I have tried with nada, how I have thought strategically to plan

every situation, she always finds some way to ZING me, which either stops me

cold or renders my careful planning useless. There is no win with nada, and any

peace is fleeting or an illusion: once I get the whole story I find out I was

duped, again.

> >

> > I am 2/3 through SWOE and am gaining a much better understanding of myself.

But honestly, after reading the dialogue in the book and becoming fully informed

about BPD over this past year, I would not choose to cultivate a relationship

with one if I saw a way out. It is FAR too much work for the nonBPD.

> >

> > My parent I can keep at arms length. I would probably kick a BPD parter to

the curb. I can only see working at a relationship with a BPD if it was my

child.

> >

> > Not to say I do not feel sorry for the BPD, but enough is enough. They are

the ones mentally ill and driving everyone away. It seems like the nons still

have to jump through hoops, just a different set of hoops, just to survive.

> >

> > Maybe I am just tired from 5 decades of Mom's unspoken, unacknowledged

illness, and how everyone else but her has been expected to make her

comfortable. I am tired and worn out; it's too much work to try to care about a

relationship with my 78 year old mother that will never be healthy.

> >

> > Am I a monster to feel this way? I just feel I am DONE giving any more

energy to her or fada. It's a big waste of my time.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Oh yes, I could write a book on " managing " my nada to keep her calm and happy.

And of course as long as I'm in relationship with her it is to my benefit to do

so. It's one of the most frustrating traps because if you stop managing them

and set boundaries - the healthier behaviors - they explode and go insane. And

sometimes that can be a real problem if they are directing all that rage at you

and can actually hurt you in any way.

Echo I don't think you are a monster at all for feeling done. If you feel at

peace with walking away that's what matters. No one can really judge your

choices because only you know the full scope of the situation. I've chosen to

live far away from my nada even though she's in terrible health and the pressure

is mounting on me to move closer. But none of those people can comprehend what

it would mean to me for her to be within daily visiting distance. I think it

might literally give me a nervous breakdown. So I just look like the cold bitch

to anyone who sees it from the outside...oh well.

Eliza

> >

> > I am 2/3 through SWOE and am gaining a much better understanding of myself.

But honestly, after reading the dialogue in the book and becoming fully informed

about BPD over this past year, I would not choose to cultivate a relationship

with one if I saw a way out. It is FAR too much work for the nonBPD.

> >

> > My parent I can keep at arms length. I would probably kick a BPD parter to

the curb. I can only see working at a relationship with a BPD if it was my

child.

> >

> > Not to say I do not feel sorry for the BPD, but enough is enough. They are

the ones mentally ill and driving everyone away. It seems like the nons still

have to jump through hoops, just a different set of hoops, just to survive.

> >

> > Maybe I am just tired from 5 decades of Mom's unspoken, unacknowledged

illness, and how everyone else but her has been expected to make her

comfortable. I am tired and worn out; it's too much work to try to care about a

relationship with my 78 year old mother that will never be healthy.

> >

> > Am I a monster to feel this way? I just feel I am DONE giving any more

energy to her or fada. It's a big waste of my time.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I have heard complaints over the years about " so and so " being selfish, self

absorbed or cold because they abandoned a parent/spouse. I always speak up to

say " We don't know the whole circumstances, so are not in a place to judge. "

I also figure the ones complaining the loudest are not the actual victims in the

scenario; most of the truly abused continue suffering in silence, wanting no

more misery, only peace.

>

I've chosen to live far away from my nada even though she's in terrible health

and the pressure is mounting on me to move closer. But none of those people can

comprehend what it would mean to me for her to be within daily visiting

distance. I think it might literally give me a nervous breakdown. So I just

look like the cold bitch to anyone who sees it from the outside...oh well.

>

> Eliza

>