Re: Accredited programs in TX

[Guest guest]

CECBEMS

What are the requirements for organizational accreditation?

Here is a brief summary of the requirements for organizational

accreditation:

· Provide a written statement approved by its governing body that

supports its EMS continuing education mission.

· Demonstrate an ongoing needs assessment for specific EMS

educational activities.

· Submit a letter of recommendation or approval of its state EMS

office.

· Document resources consistent with its educational mission

relative to EMS continuing education.

· Submit a current agreement with physician medical director(s) to

provide direction to the EMS and the CECBEMS program committee.

· Maintain a program committee that reviews and approves all

activities offered by the accredited organization and by cosponsoring

organizations.

· Comply with CECBEMS policies.

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

products.

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/28/2007 12:00:25 P.M. Central Standard Time,

ExLngHrn@... writes:

One of these days, someone with money (which excludes 100% of EMS) is going

to hire a good lawyer (which might exclude me, LOL) to challenge the

authority of NREMT to circumvent the various states' EMS laws and regulations.

Wes brings up a great point about NR and rulemaking that would normally be

considered a function of the state. When I was active on the Fire Service

equivalent of the GETAC Education Committee back in New Jersey we were faced

with

a situation where we needed a test for certification of Firefighters in NJ

as well as Instructors and other levels of Fire Service Certification under

the New Jersey Department of Community Affairs. We were arguing at the

committee level as to whether we needed to develop the test in house at some

deal of

expense or weather we could just use the States buying power to get a test

bank from an already in place source. Our Administrative Liaison from DCA at

the time stated that we could not do that since it would be akin to allowing a

non state entity to create the test and that under the law of the land we

could not do that so we went the long and costly route to develop the tests

ourselves, the thing was that at roughly the same time New Jersey was doing as

Texas did and moving to the NR for EMT testing which to me was the same thing

as we had discussed doing of the Fire side so here in one state two

Departments you had two different approaches to the same issues?

No one ever said this stuff made any sense?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

products.

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/28/2007 12:23:29 P.M. Central Standard Time,

bbledsoe@... writes:

Do I think it is right? Not necessarily-but the cards have been dealt. To

quote Darwin, " We must evolve or die. "

Darwin as an EMS person now that's a scary thought isn't it?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

products.

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

Lance,

As I understand it and has you have posted this " accreditation " is for

paramedic programs only! This also means that college based programs will for

the most part be the only programs available to those wishing to take an EMT

class.

It my understanding that it would be very hard for those independent programs

that do paramedic, EMT-I or EMT-B classes to receive this " accreditation " , thus

putting them out of business, meaning rural areas are screwed if this happens.

I don't agree with this process, just as I don't agree with taking ECA's off

an ambulance as has been suggested by the Education Committee of GETAC. This

would again put many rural volunteer providers out of business. But, I'll talk

about this with them off this list.

Wayne

Lance Villers wrote:

The Commission on Accreditation of Allied Health Programs (CAAHEP)is

the program accreditor for allied health programs. The Committee on

Accreditation of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical

Services Professions (CoAEMSP)is the specific commission under CAAHEP

that accredits paramedic programs (There is no accreditation for EMTB

programs). See http://www.coaemsp.org

Currently there are 14 accredited programs in Texas. Although only

schools are currently accredited here in Texas, it is not required:

Austin Community College - Austin, TX

Brazosport College - Lake , TX

College of the Mainland - Texas City, TX

Galveston College - Galveston, TX

Houston Community College System - Houston, TX

North Montgomery Community College - Houston, TX

San Jacinto College - Pasadena, TX

San Jacinto College North - Houston, TX

South Plains College - Lubbock, TX

Tarrant County College - Hurst, TX

University of Texas Hlth Science Ctr at San - San , TX

University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center - Dallas, TX

University of Texas-Brownsville and Texas Southmost College -

Brownsville, TX

>

> Ok, accredited by who?? Does this limit accredited programs to

college-based programs?

>

> What programs are currently nationally accredited?

>

> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P

>

---------------------------------

Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.

[Guest guest]

If you all have not reed the EMS Agenda for the future please read it. Here

is a link to the document.

_http://www.nasemso.org/Projects/EMSEducation/documents/FinalEducationAgenda.pdf\

_

(http://www.nasemso.org/Projects/EMSEducation/documents/FinalEducationAgenda.pdf\

)

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

products.

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

Someone sent me an e-mail and asked me to respond on the server about

CECBEMS.

CAAHEP is the National Accreditation Agency for EMS programs but CoAEMSP

does the actual leg work for this Accreditation. Here is the link to CoAEMSP

Standards

_http://www.coaemsp.org/standardspolicies.htm_

(http://www.coaemsp.org/standardspolicies.htm)

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

products.

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

I have a suggestion: Look up the DSHS data on the success rates on NR exams

in every program in Texas (the data is available) and then see which programs

with high success rates are accredited and which are not. And while you're

at it, look at the success rates of all the accredited programs. I think

this will tell you much about the value of accreditation.

Gene Gandy

>

> I'm also concerned about some of the college and independent programs who

> may have to drop paramedic programs because of the cost of the accreditation

> process. I have been with 2 programs who have gone through accreditation. It's

> not cheap, and it takes a mountain of support. Some might say if the program

> can't go through accreditation, then they are not worth keeping around.

> However, there are some exceptional programs that just don't have the cash to

do

> it. Hopefully, Dishes and GETAC will muster up and help with the expenses and

> provide tech assistance to programs seeking the now mandatory

> accreditation(I'm also concerned about some of the college and independent

programs who may

> have to drop paramedic programs

>

> -MH

> ____________ ________ ________ _

> From: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem [texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem] On Behalf Of

> Wayne D [rxmd911@...]

> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:30 AM

> To: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem

> Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

>

> Lance,

>

> As I understand it and has you have posted this " accreditation " is for

> paramedic programs only! This also means that college based programs will for

the

> most part be the only programs available to those wishing to take an EMT

> class.

>

> It my understanding that it would be very hard for those independent

> programs that do paramedic, EMT-I or EMT-B classes to receive this

" accreditation "

> It my understanding that it would be very hard for those independent programs

> that d

>

> I don't agree with this process, just as I don't agree with taking ECA's off

> an ambulance as has been suggested by the Education Committee of GETAC. This

> would again put many rural volunteer providers out of business. But, I'll

> talk about this with them off this list.

>

> Wayne

>

> Lance Villers <villers@...<mailto:villers%mailto:vilmai>> wrote:

> The Commission on Accreditation of Allied Health Programs (CAAHEP)is

> the program accreditor for allied health programs. The Committee on

> Accreditation of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical

> Services Professions (CoAEMSP)is the specific commission under CAAHEP

> that accredits paramedic programs (There is no accreditation for EMTB

> programs). See http://www.coaemsp.htt

>

> Currently there are 14 accredited programs in Texas. Although only

> schools are currently accredited here in Texas, it is not required:

>

> Austin Community College - Austin, TX

> Brazosport College - Lake , TX

> College of the Mainland - Texas City, TX

> Galveston College - Galveston, TX

> Houston Community College System - Houston, TX

> North Montgomery Community College - Houston, TX

> San Jacinto College - Pasadena, TX

> San Jacinto College North - Houston, TX

> South Plains College - Lubbock, TX

> Tarrant County College - Hurst, TX

> University of Texas Hlth Science Ctr at San - San , TX

> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center - Dallas, TX

> University of Texas-Brownsville and Texas Southmost College -

> Brownsville, TX

>

>

> >

> > Ok, accredited by who?? Does this limit accredited programs to

> college-based programs?

> >

> > What programs are currently nationally accredited?

> >

> > -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P

> >

>

> ------------ -------- -------- --

> Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.

>

>

[Guest guest]

If mandatory accreditation comes to Texas, the higher education community is

going to have to make some significant changes in its policies or we'll end up

with only a few programs in the state, and rural areas now served by private

programs will be left without a way to get their volunteers educated to the

paramedic level.

The community college in Texas have assigned areas, and they do not compete

with each other for territory. That means that if a community college chooses

not to have an EMS program, no other college can come into its territory and

run a program without its permission.

I believe this is a wrongheaded and possibly illegal arrangement, but that's

the way it is.

Further, many small community colleges will not support a GOOD EMS program.

So rather than spend the money for an accredited program, many will opt not

to have the programs.

If the distance learning programs cannot become accredited, one of the viable

options will not be available.

In spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, NREMT still refuses to

recognize distance education as being a valid way to teach folks as demonstrated

by its refusal to allow more than 10 hours distributive education for CE.

Again, why is Texas letting NREMT tell us what we need to do in EMS

education? Why isn't Texas telling NREMT what WE NEED, and demanding that they

either furnish it or give up the contract?

I am not against accreditation as a requirement, but I do not believe that

accreditation guarantees good education.

If Texas is going to mandate accreditation, then it must legislatively

provide for nontraditional programs to be eligible for accreditation.

Nobody wants improved education more than I do. But I want it available for

all, and if Texas destroys all the non-college programs and the colleges do

not step up to the plate, Texas EMS will suffer.

The universities by and large do not want to do EMS education, do not

understand it, view it as a " lower level " entity, and will not incorporate EMS

programs. Texas Tech tried it and it fell flat. It remains to be seen how

the

UTSA program will do.

Last, Texas is NOT any other state. Only Alaska and California approximate

the vastness of Texas, and what other states have done with accreditation

won't necessarily work in Texas. When one can drive across 5 states in a day

in

some regions of the country, having one or two programs in a state is not so

much of a problem. You can drive for a whole day and not even get across

Texas.

So, while Mr. Bledson is probably correct in the long run, if that's to be,

then Texas must have started YEAR BEFORE LAST in preparing for this coming

situation.

If Texas wants to do the right thing, it should overhaul the community

college system and allow free competition. If the Legislature won't do it,

then

perhaps the Supreme Court will.

Gene Gandy, JD, LP

>

> I know this accreditation issue touches a nerve. I see both sides of the

> argument. When you look outside of Texas though, non-accredited EMS

> education programs are problematic. The accreditation issue is inevitable.

> When the DOT/NHTSA people had to remove it from the National Scope of

> Practice requirements, there was an immediate push to find alternate ways to

> mandate accreditation. Thus, the NREMT-the largest player in the

> game-stepped up and made the changes. Accreditation will be required and is

> unavoidable. If you want your graduates to sit for the NREMT exams (mandated

> in ~ 39 states), you will have to be accredited. In some states (e.g.,

> Florida) accreditation has always been required and works well.

>

> Issues that will be confronting all programs in the future are:

>

> 1. The need for human patient simulators which can cost up to $250,000

> each.

>

> 2. Access to reference libraries.

>

> 3. Supporting basic science programs (e.g., anatomy and physiology

> labs, medical terminology instruction)

>

> 4. Reluctance of hospitals to sign agreements with non-accredited

> programs for clinical rotations (some of this is being driven by the

> insurance companies).

>

> 5. Ancillary costs will rise (e.g., mandated clinical instructors,

> preceptors).

>

> These issues, and others, is driving EMS education to the public colleges

> and universities where there is tax support and economy of scale. There is

> no sense fighting it. It will happen. As we have been developing the on-line

> programs through UNLV we have always planned and will have national

> accreditation (both at the University and at the cooperating schools in the

> various states). Non-accredited programs should begin planning for

> accreditation.

>

> Do I think it is right? Not necessarily- Do I think it is right? Not nece

> quote Darwin, " We must evolve or die. "

>

> BEB

>

> From: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem [mailto:texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem] On

> Behalf Of Hudson

> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:49 AM

> To: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem

> Subject: RE: Accredited programs in TX

>

> I'm also concerned about some of the college and independent programs who

> may have to drop paramedic programs because of the cost of the accreditation

> process. I have been with 2 programs who have gone through accreditation.

> It's not cheap, and it takes a mountain of support. Some might say if the

> program can't go through accreditation, then they are not worth keeping

> around. However, there are some exceptional programs that just don't have

> the cash to do it. Hopefully, Dishes and GETAC will muster up and help with

> the expenses and provide tech assistance to programs seeking the now

> mandatory accreditation( mandatory accreditation(<wbr>even though THEY di

> should be a top priority for the GETAC Education Committee.

>

> -MH

>

>

[Guest guest]

CECBEMS is for continuing education only. It is not the sort of

accreditation that NREMT is mandating.

GG

**************************************

Check out AOL's list of 2007's

hottest products.

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

I'm also concerned about some of the college and independent programs who may

have to drop paramedic programs because of the cost of the accreditation

process. I have been with 2 programs who have gone through accreditation. It's

not cheap, and it takes a mountain of support. Some might say if the program

can't go through accreditation, then they are not worth keeping around.

However, there are some exceptional programs that just don't have the cash to do

it. Hopefully, Dishes and GETAC will muster up and help with the expenses and

provide tech assistance to programs seeking the now mandatory accreditation(even

though THEY did not make it mandatory). This should be a top priority for the

GETAC Education Committee.

-MH

________________________________

From: texasems-l [texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Wayne

D [rxmd911@...]

Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:30 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

Lance,

As I understand it and has you have posted this " accreditation " is for paramedic

programs only! This also means that college based programs will for the most

part be the only programs available to those wishing to take an EMT class.

It my understanding that it would be very hard for those independent programs

that do paramedic, EMT-I or EMT-B classes to receive this " accreditation " , thus

putting them out of business, meaning rural areas are screwed if this happens.

I don't agree with this process, just as I don't agree with taking ECA's off an

ambulance as has been suggested by the Education Committee of GETAC. This would

again put many rural volunteer providers out of business. But, I'll talk about

this with them off this list.

Wayne

Lance Villers <villers@...<mailto:villers%40uthscsa.edu>> wrote:

The Commission on Accreditation of Allied Health Programs (CAAHEP)is

the program accreditor for allied health programs. The Committee on

Accreditation of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical

Services Professions (CoAEMSP)is the specific commission under CAAHEP

that accredits paramedic programs (There is no accreditation for EMTB

programs). See http://www.coaemsp.org

Currently there are 14 accredited programs in Texas. Although only

schools are currently accredited here in Texas, it is not required:

Austin Community College - Austin, TX

Brazosport College - Lake , TX

College of the Mainland - Texas City, TX

Galveston College - Galveston, TX

Houston Community College System - Houston, TX

North Montgomery Community College - Houston, TX

San Jacinto College - Pasadena, TX

San Jacinto College North - Houston, TX

South Plains College - Lubbock, TX

Tarrant County College - Hurst, TX

University of Texas Hlth Science Ctr at San - San , TX

University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center - Dallas, TX

University of Texas-Brownsville and Texas Southmost College -

Brownsville, TX

>

> Ok, accredited by who?? Does this limit accredited programs to

college-based programs?

>

> What programs are currently nationally accredited?

>

> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P

>

---------------------------------

Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.

[Guest guest]

I have concerns about the legality of the present arrangement between Texas

and NREMT.

If I understand the situation correctly (and I may not) standard contracting

policies were not followed when NR was chosen as the examination provider.

Further, NR's procedures as they relate to Texans may be de facto those of

the State of Texas, and subject to the due process requirements. I doubt very

much if NREMT's procedures follow due process.

They may be a de facto arm of the State of Texas and subject to the

Administrative Procedures Act of Texas, which they do not follow in their Texas

operations.

I would like to see a test case filed so we could find out once and for all

what the NREMT's legal relationship to Texas and its citizens is.

Wes can probably shed more light on this since he's a state contract lawyer,

but it seems to me that when the state outsources a governmental function,

certain rights attach to the provider of that function.

NR, of course, contends that it is not performing a governmental function.

Anyway, I will still continue to push for a new contracting process to be

implemented.

Gene Gandy, JD, LP

>

>

> In a message dated 11/28/2007 12:00:25 P.M. Central Standard Time,

> ExLngHrn@... writes:

>

> One of these days, someone with money (which excludes 100% of EMS) is going

> to hire a good lawyer (which might exclude me, LOL) to challenge the

> authority of NREMT to circumvent the various states' EMS laws and

> regulations.

>

> Wes brings up a great point about NR and rulemaking that would normally be

> considered a function of the state. When I was active on the Fire Service

> equivalent of the GETAC Education Committee back in New Jersey we were faced

> with

> a situation where we needed a test for certification of Firefighters in NJ

> as well as Instructors and other levels of Fire Service Certification under

> the New Jersey Department of Community Affairs. We were arguing at the

> committee level as to whether we needed to develop the test in house at some

> deal of

> expense or weather we could just use the States buying power to get a test

> bank from an already in place source. Our Administrative Liaison from DCA at

> the time stated that we could not do that since it would be akin to allowing

> a

> non state entity to create the test and that under the law of the land we

> could not do that so we went the long and costly route to develop the tests

> ourselves, the thing was that at roughly the same time New Jersey was doing

> as

> Texas did and moving to the NR for EMT testing which to me was the same

> thing

> as we had discussed doing of the Fire side so here in one state two

> Departments you had two different approaches to the same issues?

>

> No one ever said this stuff made any sense?

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/ FF/

> Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/ Freelance Cons Freelance Consultant/Traine

>

> LNMolino@...

>

> (Cell Phone)

> (IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

> (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

> unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

> for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

> the

> original author.

>

> ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>*********<wbr>*********<wbr>

> *

> products.

> (http://money.http://money.<wbhttp://money.http://monhttp://money.<wbhttp)

>

>

[Guest guest]

Question -- Since NR has now established an accreditation requirement for

paramedic programs and Texas has given NREMT the authority to conduct EMS

examinations in Texas, wouldn't an accreditation requirement for paramedic

programs still need an administrative rulemaking??? Seems to me that, if NR is

making these kind of rules, it should be governed by the same administrative

procedures that DSHS is in order to protect the public and regulated community's

rights to procedural due process.

One of these days, someone with money (which excludes 100% of EMS) is going to

hire a good lawyer (which might exclude me, LOL) to challenge the authority of

NREMT to circumvent the various states' EMS laws and regulations.

Just my $0.04 (adjusted for inflation, at my hourly rate).

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P

Austin, Texas

Re: Accredited programs in TX

Lance,

As I understand it and has you have posted this " accreditation " is for paramedic

programs only! This also means that college based programs will for the most

part be the only programs available to those wishing to take an EMT class.

It my understanding that it would be very hard for those independent programs

that do paramedic, EMT-I or EMT-B classes to receive this " accreditation " , thus

putting them out of business, meaning rural areas are screwed if this happens.

I don't agree with this process, just as I don't agree with taking ECA's off an

ambulance as has been suggested by the Education Committee of GETAC. This would

again put many rural volunteer providers out of business. But, I'll talk about

this with them off this list.

Wayne

Lance Villers <villers@...<mailto:villers%40uthscsa.edu>> wrote:

The Commission on Accreditation of Allied Health Programs (CAAHEP)is

the program accreditor for allied health programs. The Committee on

Accreditation of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical

Services Professions (CoAEMSP)is the specific commission under CAAHEP

that accredits paramedic programs (There is no accreditation for EMTB

programs). See http://www.coaemsp.org

Currently there are 14 accredited programs in Texas. Although only

schools are currently accredited here in Texas, it is not required:

Austin Community College - Austin, TX

Brazosport College - Lake , TX

College of the Mainland - Texas City, TX

Galveston College - Galveston, TX

Houston Community College System - Houston, TX

North Montgomery Community College - Houston, TX

San Jacinto College - Pasadena, TX

San Jacinto College North - Houston, TX

South Plains College - Lubbock, TX

Tarrant County College - Hurst, TX

University of Texas Hlth Science Ctr at San - San , TX

University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center - Dallas, TX

University of Texas-Brownsville and Texas Southmost College -

Brownsville, TX

>

> Ok, accredited by who?? Does this limit accredited programs to

college-based programs?

>

> What programs are currently nationally accredited?

>

> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P

>

---------------------------------

Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/28/2007 3:24:49 P.M. Central Standard Time,

ExLngHrn@... writes:

Actually, there is a difference. Contractors can do work for state agencies

all the time. The difference is when the contractor's regulations conflict

with the state's regulations -- and when the contractor's regulations are not

adopted by the Administrative Procedures Act.

Ah as I see it this is where the value of Young Wes and not so young Mr.

Gandy come to play here on this list, while we have many folks that know the

TxDSHS Regs and the like such as Jane and Henry and Dudley et al since they

work

with them day in and day out both operationally and administratively the

value of having a persons with the JD and the ability to discuss the laws of the

land both in the terms of Texas as well as in terms of the broader issues

such as constitutionality is immeasurable.

It's also a reason that I try to interject my non-Texas based experiences as

I feel very strongly that not all of these problems are limited to the State

of Texas and that we must view the whole of the world and not become myopic

on any level.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

products.

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/28/2007 3:39:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,

maxifire@... writes:

If you all have not reed the EMS Agenda for the future please read it. Here

is a link to the document.

Another excellent point!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

products.

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

Trust me. One way or another, the Agenda will be enacted. The professional

committee members have too much personally invested. Besides, we all had

the " opportunity to comment " at some inconvenient time and location.

While we all complain from time to time about DSHS, at least it's OUR state

government with our tax money, our elected legislative oversight, and our

laws. That means we've got a heck of a lot more say on Texas EMS than NR or

any

of the other " opinion leaders " in EMS like. We can write our Legislature;

we can speak to GETAC; we can contact DSHS. Oh, and we can join EMSAT. (And

NAEMT even.)

What, y'all didn't do any of those? Oops, well here comes the Agenda....

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, LP

-Authorized to practice in Texas - May the God of your choice protect you.

In a message dated 11/28/2007 5:01:36 P.M. Central Standard Time,

lnmolino@... writes:

In a message dated 11/28/2007 3:39:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,

_maxifire@..._ (mailto:maxifire@...) writes:

If you all have not reed the EMS Agenda for the future please read it. Here

is a link to the document.

Another excellent point!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/FF/N

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Freelance CoFreelance Consultant/Trainer

_LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

the

original author.

******************************************<WBR>*********<WBR>*********<WBR>***

***

products.

(_http://money.http://money.<WBhttp://money.http://monhttp://money.<WBhttp_

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) )

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

products.

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

I know this accreditation issue touches a nerve. I see both sides of the

argument. When you look outside of Texas though, non-accredited EMS

education programs are problematic. The accreditation issue is inevitable.

When the DOT/NHTSA people had to remove it from the National Scope of

Practice requirements, there was an immediate push to find alternate ways to

mandate accreditation. Thus, the NREMT-the largest player in the

game-stepped up and made the changes. Accreditation will be required and is

unavoidable. If you want your graduates to sit for the NREMT exams (mandated

in ~ 39 states), you will have to be accredited. In some states (e.g.,

Florida) accreditation has always been required and works well.

Issues that will be confronting all programs in the future are:

1. The need for human patient simulators which can cost up to $250,000

each.

2. Access to reference libraries.

3. Supporting basic science programs (e.g., anatomy and physiology

labs, medical terminology instruction).

4. Reluctance of hospitals to sign agreements with non-accredited

programs for clinical rotations (some of this is being driven by the

insurance companies).

5. Ancillary costs will rise (e.g., mandated clinical instructors,

preceptors).

These issues, and others, is driving EMS education to the public colleges

and universities where there is tax support and economy of scale. There is

no sense fighting it. It will happen. As we have been developing the on-line

programs through UNLV we have always planned and will have national

accreditation (both at the University and at the cooperating schools in the

various states). Non-accredited programs should begin planning for

accreditation.

Do I think it is right? Not necessarily-but the cards have been dealt. To

quote Darwin, " We must evolve or die. "

BEB

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of Hudson

Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:49 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject: RE: Accredited programs in TX

I'm also concerned about some of the college and independent programs who

may have to drop paramedic programs because of the cost of the accreditation

process. I have been with 2 programs who have gone through accreditation.

It's not cheap, and it takes a mountain of support. Some might say if the

program can't go through accreditation, then they are not worth keeping

around. However, there are some exceptional programs that just don't have

the cash to do it. Hopefully, Dishes and GETAC will muster up and help with

the expenses and provide tech assistance to programs seeking the now

mandatory accreditation(even though THEY did not make it mandatory). This

should be a top priority for the GETAC Education Committee.

-MH

[Guest guest]

Thanks to Maxie for settling this before it gets out of hand!

Miles

>

>

>

>

> CECBEMS

>

> What are the requirements for organizational accreditation?

> Here is a brief summary of the requirements for organizational

> accreditation:

>

> · Provide a written statement approved by its governing body that

> supports its EMS continuing education mission.

>

> · Demonstrate an ongoing needs assessment for specific EMS

> educational activities.

>

> · Submit a letter of recommendation or approval of its state EMS

> office.

>

> · Document resources consistent with its educational mission

> relative to EMS continuing education.

>

> · Submit a current agreement with physician medical director(s) to

> provide direction to the EMS and the CECBEMS program committee.

>

> · Maintain a program committee that reviews and approves all

> activities offered by the accredited organization and by cosponsoring

> organizations.

>

> · Comply with CECBEMS policies.

>

> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

> products.

> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

>

[Guest guest]

That's a nice summary but like building a house the framing is hardly

all that is required for it to be complete.

>>> " Miles " 11/28/2007 1:04 PM >>>

Thanks to Maxie for settling this before it gets out of hand!

Miles

>

>

>

>

> CECBEMS

>

> What are the requirements for organizational accreditation?

> Here is a brief summary of the requirements for organizational

> accreditation:

>

> · Provide a written statement approved by its governing body that

> supports its EMS continuing education mission.

>

> · Demonstrate an ongoing needs assessment for specific EMS

> educational activities.

>

> · Submit a letter of recommendation or approval of its state EMS

> office.

>

> · Document resources consistent with its educational mission

> relative to EMS continuing education.

>

> · Submit a current agreement with physician medical director(s) to

> provide direction to the EMS and the CECBEMS program committee.

>

> · Maintain a program committee that reviews and approves all

> activities offered by the accredited organization and by

cosponsoring

> organizations.

>

> · Comply with CECBEMS policies.

>

> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's

hottest

> products.

>

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

>

[Guest guest]

This is already out of hand.... the CoAEMSP process as stated before IS NOT

easy or cheap. We're talking up to $50,000. Dishes needs to prepare a mail out

to all advanced programs and have regional coordinator meetings ASAP with NR and

CoAEMSP reps to get timely and factual information on this requirement. My

program is well set for this. However, the overwhelming majority are not, and

oblivious. Five years is a lot shorter than you think in getting prepared.

Definitive leadership is needed now!!!

-MH

________________________________

From: texasems-l [texasems-l ] On Behalf Of

Miles [scottywmiles@...]

Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:04 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

Thanks to Maxie for settling this before it gets out of hand!

Miles

On Nov 28, 2007 9:23 AM, <maxifire@...<mailto:maxifire%40aol.com>> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> CECBEMS

>

> What are the requirements for organizational accreditation?

> Here is a brief summary of the requirements for organizational

> accreditation:

>

> · Provide a written statement approved by its governing body that

> supports its EMS continuing education mission.

>

> · Demonstrate an ongoing needs assessment for specific EMS

> educational activities.

>

> · Submit a letter of recommendation or approval of its state EMS

> office.

>

> · Document resources consistent with its educational mission

> relative to EMS continuing education.

>

> · Submit a current agreement with physician medical director(s) to

> provide direction to the EMS and the CECBEMS program committee.

>

> · Maintain a program committee that reviews and approves all

> activities offered by the accredited organization and by cosponsoring

> organizations.

>

> · Comply with CECBEMS policies.

>

> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

> products.

> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

>

[Guest guest]

Will CECBEMS be an option for accreditation? The press release quotes

the Chairman of CoAEMSP which gives the impression that it (CoAEMSP)

will be the acceptable accreditation body. It's standards are much

more comprehensive.

AJL

>

>

>

>

> CECBEMS

>

> What are the requirements for organizational accreditation?

> Here is a brief summary of the requirements for organizational

> accreditation:

>

> · Provide a written statement approved by its governing body that

> supports its EMS continuing education mission.

>

> · Demonstrate an ongoing needs assessment for specific EMS

> educational activities.

>

> · Submit a letter of recommendation or approval of its state EMS

> office.

>

> · Document resources consistent with its educational mission

> relative to EMS continuing education.

>

> · Submit a current agreement with physician medical director(s) to

> provide direction to the EMS and the CECBEMS program committee.

>

> · Maintain a program committee that reviews and approves all

> activities offered by the accredited organization and by cosponsoring

> organizations.

>

> · Comply with CECBEMS policies.

>

> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

> products.

> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

>

[Guest guest]

Didn't Illinois actually switch to another provider? Anybody know for sure,

and if so, who it was? Was it Platinum Education Group?

GG

>

> National Registry is just one indicator of the quality of a paramedic

> program. Some instructors and programs teach to the exam and not the

professional

> needs. They get good NRENT scores and turn out average paramedics. I brought

> this up at GETAC—we need a way to determine the quality of graduates 1 year

> out from completion of the initial education. National Registry will not go

> away. Illinois is toying with a different model but NREMT has the support of

> every major EMS entity.

>

> BEB

>

> From: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem [mailto:texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem] On

> Behalf Of wegandy1938@wegandy

> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 4:25 PM

> To: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem

> Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

>

> I have a suggestion: Look up the DSHS data on the success rates on NR exams

> in every program in Texas (the data is available) and then see which

> programs

> with high success rates are accredited and which are not. And while you're

> at it, look at the success rates of all the accredited programs. I think

> this will tell you much about the value of accreditation.

>

> Gene Gandy

> In a message dated 11/28/07 10:54:31 AM, mhudson@mesquiteisdmhud <

> mailto:mhudson%mailto:mhudsonmai> writes:

>

> >

> > I'm also concerned about some of the college and independent programs who

> > may have to drop paramedic programs because of the cost of the

> accreditation

> > process. I have been with 2 programs who have gone through accreditation.

> It's

> > not cheap, and it takes a mountain of support. Some might say if the

> program

> > can't go through accreditation, then they are not worth keeping around.

> > However, there are some exceptional programs that just don't have the cash

> to do

> > it. Hopefully, Dishes and GETAC will muster up and help with the expenses

> and

> > provide tech assistance to programs seeking the now mandatory

> > accreditation( accreditation(<wbr>I'm also concerned about some of the

> college and independe

> > have to drop paramedic programs

> >

> > -MH

> > ____________ ________ ________ _

> > From: texasems-l@yahoogro From: texasems-l@ya From: texasems-l@yahoogro<

> wbr

> > Wayne D [rxmd911@... <mailto:rxmd911%mailto:rxmd> ]

> > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:30 AM

> > To: texasems-l@yahoogro To: te

> > Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

> >

> > Lance,

> >

> > As I understand it and has you have posted this " accreditation " is for

> > paramedic programs only! This also means that college based programs will

> for the

> > most part be the only programs available to those wishing to take an EMT

> > class.

> >

> > It my understanding that it would be very hard for those independent

> > programs that do paramedic, EMT-I or EMT-B classes to receive this

> " accreditation "

> > It my understanding that it would be very hard for those independent

> programs

> > that d

> >

> > I don't agree with this process, just as I don't agree with taking ECA's

> off

> > an ambulance as has been suggested by the Education Committee of GETAC.

> This

> > would again put many rural volunteer providers out of business. But, I'll

> > talk about this with them off this list.

> >

> > Wayne

> >

> > Lance Villers <villers@... <mailto:villers%mailto:vilmai> <

> mailto:villers%mailto:viller>> wrote:

> > The Commission on Accreditation of Allied Health Programs (CAAHEP)is

> > the program accreditor for allied health programs. The Committee on

> > Accreditation of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical

> > Services Professions (CoAEMSP)is the specific commission under CAAHEP

> > that accredits paramedic programs (There is no accreditation for EMTB

> > programs). See http://www.coaemsp.htt

> >

> > Currently there are 14 accredited programs in Texas. Although only

> > schools are currently accredited here in Texas, it is not required:

> >

> > Austin Community College - Austin, TX

> > Brazosport College - Lake , TX

> > College of the Mainland - Texas City, TX

> > Galveston College - Galveston, TX

> > Houston Community College System - Houston, TX

> > North Montgomery Community College - Houston, TX

> > San Jacinto College - Pasadena, TX

> > San Jacinto College North - Houston, TX

> > South Plains College - Lubbock, TX

> > Tarrant County College - Hurst, TX

> > University of Texas Hlth Science Ctr at San - San , TX

> > University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center - Dallas, TX

> > University of Texas-Brownsville and Texas Southmost College -

> > Brownsville, TX

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Ok, accredited by who?? Does this limit accredited programs to

> > college-based programs?

> > >

> > > What programs are currently nationally accredited?

> > >

> > > -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P

> > >

> >

> > ------------ -------- -------- --

> > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

OK Wes for president, sorry Gene out of sight out of sight.

Henry

Re: Accredited programs in TX

Lance,

As I understand it and has you have posted this " accreditation " is for

paramedic programs only! This also means that college based programs will for

the most part be the only programs available to those wishing to take an EMT

class.

It my understanding that it would be very hard for those independent programs

that do paramedic, EMT-I or EMT-B classes to receive this " accreditation " , thus

putting them out of business, meaning rural areas are screwed if this happens.

I don't agree with this process, just as I don't agree with taking ECA's off

an ambulance as has been suggested by the Education Committee of GETAC. This

would again put many rural volunteer providers out of business. But, I'll talk

about this with them off this list.

Wayne

Lance Villers <villers@...<mailto:villers%40uthscsa.edu>> wrote:

The Commission on Accreditation of Allied Health Programs (CAAHEP)is

the program accreditor for allied health programs. The Committee on

Accreditation of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical

Services Professions (CoAEMSP)is the specific commission under CAAHEP

that accredits paramedic programs (There is no accreditation for EMTB

programs). See http://www.coaemsp.org

Currently there are 14 accredited programs in Texas. Although only

schools are currently accredited here in Texas, it is not required:

Austin Community College - Austin, TX

Brazosport College - Lake , TX

College of the Mainland - Texas City, TX

Galveston College - Galveston, TX

Houston Community College System - Houston, TX

North Montgomery Community College - Houston, TX

San Jacinto College - Pasadena, TX

San Jacinto College North - Houston, TX

South Plains College - Lubbock, TX

Tarrant County College - Hurst, TX

University of Texas Hlth Science Ctr at San - San , TX

University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center - Dallas, TX

University of Texas-Brownsville and Texas Southmost College -

Brownsville, TX

>

> Ok, accredited by who?? Does this limit accredited programs to

college-based programs?

>

> What programs are currently nationally accredited?

>

> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P

>

---------------------------------

Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.

[Guest guest]

Gene,

I had the opportunity to visit with Gottschalk with Platinum a couple

weeks ago. Based on the conversation I had with him they are avoiding state

exams they are concentrating on helping programs develop valid exams.

Maxie

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

products.

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

To quote Tecumseh Sherman, " If nominated, I will not run. If elected, I

will not serve. "

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P, LP

" licensed for your protection " ? :-)

Re: Accredited programs in TX

OK Wes for president, sorry Gene out of sight out of sight.

Henry

Re: Accredited programs in TX

Lance,

As I understand it and has you have posted this " accreditation " is for paramedic

programs only! This also means that college based programs will for the most

part be the only programs available to those wishing to take an EMT class.

It my understanding that it would be very hard for those independent programs

that do paramedic, EMT-I or EMT-B classes to receive this " accreditation " , thus

putting them out of business, meaning rural areas are screwed if this happens.

I don't agree with this process, just as I don't agree with taking ECA's off an

ambulance as has been suggested by the Education Committee of GETAC. This would

again put many rural volunteer providers out of business. But, I'll talk about

this with them off this list.

Wayne

Lance Villers <villers@...<mailto:villers%40uthscsa.edu>> wrote:

The Commission on Accreditation of Allied Health Programs (CAAHEP)is

the program accreditor for allied health programs. The Committee on

Accreditation of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical

Services Professions (CoAEMSP)is the specific commission under CAAHEP

that accredits paramedic programs (There is no accreditation for EMTB

programs). See http://www.coaemsp.org

Currently there are 14 accredited programs in Texas. Although only

schools are currently accredited here in Texas, it is not required:

Austin Community College - Austin, TX

Brazosport College - Lake , TX

College of the Mainland - Texas City, TX

Galveston College - Galveston, TX

Houston Community College System - Houston, TX

North Montgomery Community College - Houston, TX

San Jacinto College - Pasadena, TX

San Jacinto College North - Houston, TX

South Plains College - Lubbock, TX

Tarrant County College - Hurst, TX

University of Texas Hlth Science Ctr at San - San , TX

University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center - Dallas, TX

University of Texas-Brownsville and Texas Southmost College -

Brownsville, TX

>

> Ok, accredited by who?? Does this limit accredited programs to

college-based programs?

>

> What programs are currently nationally accredited?

>

> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P

>

---------------------------------

Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.

[Guest guest]

Respectfully Wes, isn’t this similar to the state using an outside,

private agency to serve any number of needs? We do have a state need to

build and maintain roads, but this is often done by private contractors.

The same could be said for child placement services working in

conjunction with child protective services.

I am not sure if legally challenging NR makes as much sense as an

alternative third party credentialing source, i.e. an American Registry

of EMTs, if you will. They key would be to have AREMT construct a valid

and reliable credentialing test and then get states to buy off on the

idea of you have to be either a NR or AREMT medic to be able to practice

in said state.

Re: Accredited programs in TX

Lance,

As I understand it and has you have posted this " accreditation " is for

paramedic programs only! This also means that college based programs

will for the most part be the only programs available to those wishing

to take an EMT class.

It my understanding that it would be very hard for those independent

programs that do paramedic, EMT-I or EMT-B classes to receive this

" accreditation " , thus putting them out of business, meaning rural areas

are screwed if this happens.

I don't agree with this process, just as I don't agree with taking ECA's

off an ambulance as has been suggested by the Education Committee of

GETAC. This would again put many rural volunteer providers out of

business. But, I'll talk about this with them off this list.

Wayne

Lance Villers <villers (AT) uthscsa (DOT) <mailto:villers%40uthscsa.edu>

edu<mailto:villers%40uthscsa.edu>> wrote:

The Commission on Accreditation of Allied Health Programs (CAAHEP)is

the program accreditor for allied health programs. The Committee on

Accreditation of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical

Services Professions (CoAEMSP)is the specific commission under CAAHEP

that accredits paramedic programs (There is no accreditation for EMTB

programs). See http://www.coaemsp. <http://www.coaemsp.org> org

Currently there are 14 accredited programs in Texas. Although only

schools are currently accredited here in Texas, it is not required:

Austin Community College - Austin, TX

Brazosport College - Lake , TX

College of the Mainland - Texas City, TX

Galveston College - Galveston, TX

Houston Community College System - Houston, TX

North Montgomery Community College - Houston, TX

San Jacinto College - Pasadena, TX

San Jacinto College North - Houston, TX

South Plains College - Lubbock, TX

Tarrant County College - Hurst, TX

University of Texas Hlth Science Ctr at San - San , TX

University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center - Dallas, TX

University of Texas-Brownsville and Texas Southmost College -

Brownsville, TX

>

> Ok, accredited by who?? Does this limit accredited programs to

college-based programs?

>

> What programs are currently nationally accredited?

>

> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P

>

---------------------------------

Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.