Re: Accredited programs in TX

November 28, 2007

Actually, there is a difference.Â Contractors can do work for state agencies

all the time. The difference is when the contractor's regulations conflict with

the state's regulations -- and when the contractor's regulations are not adopted

by the Administrative Procedures Act.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P, LP

Re: Accredited programs in TX

Lance,

As I understand it and has you have posted this " accreditation " is for

paramedic programs only! This also means that college based programs

will for the most part be the only programs available to those wishing

to take an EMT class.

It my understanding that it would be very hard for those independent

programs that do paramedic, EMT-I or EMT-B classes to receive this

" accreditation " , thus putting them out of business, meaning rural areas

are screwed if this happens.

I don't agree with this process, just as I don't agree with taking ECA's

off an ambulance as has been suggested by the Education Committee of

GETAC. This would again put many rural volunteer providers out of

business. But, I'll talk about this with them off this list.

Wayne

Lance Villers <villers (AT) uthscsa (DOT) <mailto:villers%40uthscsa.edu>

edu<mailto:villers%40uthscsa.edu>> wrote:

The Commission on Accreditation of Allied Health Programs (CAAHEP)is

the program accreditor for allied health programs. The Committee on

Accreditation of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical

Services Professions (CoAEMSP)is the specific commission under CAAHEP

that accredits paramedic programs (There is no accreditation for EMTB

programs). See http://www.coaemsp. <http://www.coaemsp.org> org

Currently there are 14 accredited programs in Texas. Although only

schools are currently accredited here in Texas, it is not required:

Austin Community College - Austin, TX

Brazosport College - Lake , TX

College of the Mainland - Texas City, TX

Galveston College - Galveston, TX

Houston Community College System - Houston, TX

North Montgomery Community College - Houston, TX

San Jacinto College - Pasadena, TX

San Jacinto College North - Houston, TX

South Plains College - Lubbock, TX

Tarrant County College - Hurst, TX

University of Texas Hlth Science Ctr at San - San , TX

University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center - Dallas, TX

University of Texas-Brownsville and Texas Southmost College -

Brownsville, TX

>

> Ok, accredited by who?? Does this limit accredited programs to

college-based programs?

>

> What programs are currently nationally accredited?

>

> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P

>

---------------------------------

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November 28, 2007

..excellent point.

Re: Accredited programs in TX

Lance,

As I understand it and has you have posted this " accreditation " is for

paramedic programs only! This also means that college based programs

will for the most part be the only programs available to those wishing

to take an EMT class.

It my understanding that it would be very hard for those independent

programs that do paramedic, EMT-I or EMT-B classes to receive this

" accreditation " , thus putting them out of business, meaning rural areas

are screwed if this happens.

I don't agree with this process, just as I don't agree with taking ECA's

off an ambulance as has been suggested by the Education Committee of

GETAC. This would again put many rural volunteer providers out of

business. But, I'll talk about this with them off this list.

Wayne

Lance Villers <villers (AT) uthscsa (DOT) <mailto:villers%40uthscsa.edu>

edu<mailto:villers%40uthscsa.edu>> wrote:

The Commission on Accreditation of Allied Health Programs (CAAHEP)is

the program accreditor for allied health programs. The Committee on

Accreditation of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical

Services Professions (CoAEMSP)is the specific commission under CAAHEP

that accredits paramedic programs (There is no accreditation for EMTB

programs). See http://www.coaemsp. <http://www.coaemsp.

<http://www.coaemsp.org> org> org

Currently there are 14 accredited programs in Texas. Although only

schools are currently accredited here in Texas, it is not required:

Austin Community College - Austin, TX

Brazosport College - Lake , TX

College of the Mainland - Texas City, TX

Galveston College - Galveston, TX

Houston Community College System - Houston, TX

North Montgomery Community College - Houston, TX

San Jacinto College - Pasadena, TX

San Jacinto College North - Houston, TX

South Plains College - Lubbock, TX

Tarrant County College - Hurst, TX

University of Texas Hlth Science Ctr at San - San , TX

University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center - Dallas, TX

University of Texas-Brownsville and Texas Southmost College -

Brownsville, TX

>

> Ok, accredited by who?? Does this limit accredited programs to

college-based programs?

>

> What programs are currently nationally accredited?

>

> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P

>

---------------------------------

Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.

November 28, 2007

OK. Well, that's too bad. I wish they were interested in state exams.

I don't know whether or not ETS would be interested, or ACT either.

Do you know who is doing the Illinois exams?

G

>

> Gene,

> I had the opportunity to visit with Gottschalk with Platinum a couple

> weeks ago. Based on the conversation I had with him they are avoiding state

> exams they are concentrating on helping programs develop valid exams.

> Maxie

>

> ************ ******** ******** ******************************

> *

> products.

> (http://money.http://money.<wbhttp://money.http://monhttp://money.<wbhttp)

>

November 28, 2007

Most college allied health programs have a tracking requirement. Problem

is, it's almost impossible to do it. You can send employer surveys, and 9

times out of 10 they are not returned.

You can send surveys to students, asking them to list their employers and so

forth, and 9 out of 10 of them are never returned.

They move without notifying you, and so forth. The only way I could see

making it stick would be for the certifying agency requiring it in order to

recertify.

GG

>

> I may be mistaken, but I believe post-graduation job placement and employer

> satisfaction surveys are an element of CAHEP's accreditation. How important

> an element, I don't know, but I seem to recall hearing that once. If that is

> indeed the case, then we already have a mechanism in place for tracking how

> well those graduates do one year out. The only question is, is it stringent

> enough?

>

> Re: Accredited programs in TX

> >

> > Lance,

> >

> > As I understand it and has you have posted this " accreditation " is for

> > paramedic programs only! This also means that college based programs will

> for the

> > most part be the only programs available to those wishing to take an EMT

> > class.

> >

> > It my understanding that it would be very hard for those independent

> > programs that do paramedic, EMT-I or EMT-B classes to receive this

> " accreditation "

> > It my understanding that it would be very hard for those independent

> programs

> > that d

> >

> > I don't agree with this process, just as I don't agree with taking ECA's

> off

> > an ambulance as has been suggested by the Education Committee of GETAC.

> This

> > would again put many rural volunteer providers out of business. But, I'll

> > talk about this with them off this list.

> >

> > Wayne

> >

> > Lance Villers <villers@... <mailto:villers%mailto:vilmai> <

> mailto:villers%mailto:viller><> wrote:

> > The Commission on Accreditation of Allied Health Programs (CAAHEP)is

> > the program accreditor for allied health programs. The Committee on

> > Accreditation of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical

> > Services Professions (CoAEMSP)is the specific commission under CAAHEP

> > that accredits paramedic programs (There is no accreditation for EMTB

> > programs). See http://www.coaemsp.htt

> >

> > Currently there are 14 accredited programs in Texas. Although only

> > schools are currently accredited here in Texas, it is not required:

> >

> > Austin Community College - Austin, TX

> > Brazosport College - Lake , TX

> > College of the Mainland - Texas City, TX

> > Galveston College - Galveston, TX

> > Houston Community College System - Houston, TX

> > North Montgomery Community College - Houston, TX

> > San Jacinto College - Pasadena, TX

> > San Jacinto College North - Houston, TX

> > South Plains College - Lubbock, TX

> > Tarrant County College - Hurst, TX

> > University of Texas Hlth Science Ctr at San - San , TX

> > University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center - Dallas, TX

> > University of Texas-Brownsville and Texas Southmost College -

> > Brownsville, TX

> >

> > >

> > > Ok, accredited by who?? Does this limit accredited programs to

> > college-based programs?

> > >

> > > What programs are currently nationally accredited?

> > >

> > > -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P

> > >

> >

> > ------------ -------- -------- --

> > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.

> >

November 28, 2007

To clarify, as I understand, the requirement for accreditation from

NR applies to Paramedic programs because CoAEMSP only accredits

paramedic programs.

EMT programs will not require accreditation and NR will not mandate

that either. Therefore, EMT programs are unaffected.

Lance

1a. Re: Accredited programs in TX

Posted by: " Wayne D " rxmd911@... rxmd911

Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:11 am ((PST))

Lance,

As I understand it and has you have posted this " accreditation " is

for paramedic programs only! This also means that college based

programs will for the most part be the only programs available to

those wishing to take an EMT class.

It my understanding that it would be very hard for those

independent programs that do paramedic, EMT-I or EMT-B classes to

receive this " accreditation " , thus putting them out of business,

meaning rural areas are screwed if this happens.

I don't agree with this process, just as I don't agree with taking

ECA's off an ambulance as has been suggested by the Education

Committee of GETAC. This would again put many rural volunteer

providers out of business. But, I'll talk about this with them off

this list.

Wayne

November 28, 2007

Point of order: CECBEMS only accredits continuing education programs-not

initial education programs. We just went through the CECBEMS process for a

project I am working on. CECBEMS does not accredit initial education

programs.

BEB

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of maxifire@...

Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:24 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

CECBEMS

What are the requirements for organizational accreditation?

Here is a brief summary of the requirements for organizational

accreditation:

.. Provide a written statement approved by its governing body that

supports its EMS continuing education mission.

.. Demonstrate an ongoing needs assessment for specific EMS

educational activities.

.. Submit a letter of recommendation or approval of its state EMS

office.

.. Document resources consistent with its educational mission

relative to EMS continuing education.

.. Submit a current agreement with physician medical director(s) to

provide direction to the EMS and the CECBEMS program committee.

.. Maintain a program committee that reviews and approves all

activities offered by the accredited organization and by cosponsoring

organizations.

.. Comply with CECBEMS policies.

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

products.

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

November 28, 2007

National Registry is just one indicator of the quality of a paramedic program.

Some instructors and programs teach to the exam and not the professional needs.

They get good NRENT scores and turn out average paramedics. I brought this up at

GETACâ€”we need a way to determine the quality of graduates 1 year out from

completion of the initial education. National Registry will not go away.

Illinois is toying with a different model but NREMT has the support of every

major EMS entity.

BEB

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf

Of wegandy1938@...

Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 4:25 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

I have a suggestion: Look up the DSHS data on the success rates on NR exams

in every program in Texas (the data is available) and then see which programs

with high success rates are accredited and which are not. And while you're

at it, look at the success rates of all the accredited programs. I think

this will tell you much about the value of accreditation.

Gene Gandy

In a message dated 11/28/07 10:54:31 AM, mhudson@...

<mailto:mhudson%40mesquiteisd.org> writes:

>

> I'm also concerned about some of the college and independent programs who

> may have to drop paramedic programs because of the cost of the accreditation

> process. I have been with 2 programs who have gone through accreditation. It's

> not cheap, and it takes a mountain of support. Some might say if the program

> can't go through accreditation, then they are not worth keeping around.

> However, there are some exceptional programs that just don't have the cash to

do

> it. Hopefully, Dishes and GETAC will muster up and help with the expenses and

> provide tech assistance to programs seeking the now mandatory

> accreditation(I'm also concerned about some of the college and independent

programs who may

> have to drop paramedic programs

>

> -MH

> ____________ ________ ________ _

> From: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem [texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem] On Behalf Of

> Wayne D [rxmd911@... <mailto:rxmd911%40yahoo.rxm> ]

> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:30 AM

> To: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem

> Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

>

> Lance,

>

> As I understand it and has you have posted this " accreditation " is for

> paramedic programs only! This also means that college based programs will for

the

> most part be the only programs available to those wishing to take an EMT

> class.

>

> It my understanding that it would be very hard for those independent

> programs that do paramedic, EMT-I or EMT-B classes to receive this

" accreditation "

> It my understanding that it would be very hard for those independent programs

> that d

>

> I don't agree with this process, just as I don't agree with taking ECA's off

> an ambulance as has been suggested by the Education Committee of GETAC. This

> would again put many rural volunteer providers out of business. But, I'll

> talk about this with them off this list.

>

> Wayne

>

> Lance Villers <villers@... <mailto:villers%40uthscsa.vil>

<mailto:villers%mailto:vilmai>> wrote:

> The Commission on Accreditation of Allied Health Programs (CAAHEP)is

> the program accreditor for allied health programs. The Committee on

> Accreditation of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical

> Services Professions (CoAEMSP)is the specific commission under CAAHEP

> that accredits paramedic programs (There is no accreditation for EMTB

> programs). See http://www.coaemsp.htt

>

> Currently there are 14 accredited programs in Texas. Although only

> schools are currently accredited here in Texas, it is not required:

>

> Austin Community College - Austin, TX

> Brazosport College - Lake , TX

> College of the Mainland - Texas City, TX

> Galveston College - Galveston, TX

> Houston Community College System - Houston, TX

> North Montgomery Community College - Houston, TX

> San Jacinto College - Pasadena, TX

> San Jacinto College North - Houston, TX

> South Plains College - Lubbock, TX

> Tarrant County College - Hurst, TX

> University of Texas Hlth Science Ctr at San - San , TX

> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center - Dallas, TX

> University of Texas-Brownsville and Texas Southmost College -

> Brownsville, TX

>

> >

> > Ok, accredited by who?? Does this limit accredited programs to

> college-based programs?

> >

> > What programs are currently nationally accredited?

> >

> > -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P

> >

>

> ------------ -------- -------- --

> Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.

>

November 28, 2007

Wait!!!! You just put me in the same sentence as " Henry and Dudley. " Is that a

GOOD thing????? LOLOL (No offense, Henry and Dudley - just stirring the pot.)

Jane

To: texasems-l@...: lnmolino@...: Wed, 28 Nov 2007

18:00:04 -0500Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

In a message dated 11/28/2007 3:24:49 P.M. Central Standard Time,

ExLngHrn@... writes:Actually, there is a difference. Contractors can do work

for state agencies all the time. The difference is when the contractor's

regulations conflict with the state's regulations -- and when the contractor's

regulations are not adopted by the Administrative Procedures Act.Ah as I see it

this is where the value of Young Wes and not so young Mr. Gandy come to play

here on this list, while we have many folks that know the TxDSHS Regs and the

like such as Jane and Henry and Dudley et al since they work with them day in

and day out both operationally and administratively the value of having a

persons with the JD and the ability to discuss the laws of the land both in the

terms of Texas as well as in terms of the broader issues such as

constitutionality is immeasurable. It's also a reason that I try to interject my

non-Texas based experiences as I feel very strongly that not all of these

problems are limited to the State of Texas and that we must view the whole of

the world and not become myopic on any level. Louis N. Molino, Sr.,

CETFF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSIOwner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting

Services (LNMECS)Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection

ConsultantLNMolino@... (Cell Phone) (IFW/TFW/FSS

Office) (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)The comments contained in this E-mail are

the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to

speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or

associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this

E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or

confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in

the public domain by the original

author.**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's

hottest

products.(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300000000\

01)

November 28, 2007

Yes, I think they were one of at least two that switched to another provider and

no, it wasn't Platinum. I don't think Platinum is in the process of providing

national exams - they just provide testbanks for instructors, I think.

Jane

To: texasems-l@...: wegandy1938@...: Wed, 28 Nov 2007

20:41:34 -0500Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

Didn't Illinois actually switch to another provider? Anybody know for sure, and

if so, who it was? Was it Platinum Education Group?GGIn a message dated 11/28/07

5:38:47 PM, bbledsoe@... writes:> > National Registry is just one

indicator of the quality of a paramedic > program. Some instructors and programs

teach to the exam and not the professional > needs. They get good NRENT scores

and turn out average paramedics. I brought > this up at GETAC—we need a way to

determine the quality of graduates 1 year > out from completion of the initial

education. National Registry will not go > away. Illinois is toying with a

different model but NREMT has the support of > every major EMS entity.> > BEB> >

From: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem [mailto:texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem] On > Behalf

Of wegandy1938@wegandy> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 4:25 PM> To:

texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem> Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX>

> I have a suggestion: Look up the DSHS data on the success rates on NR exams>

in every program in Texas (the data is available) and then see which > programs>

with high success rates are accredited and which are not. And while you're> at

it, look at the success rates of all the accredited programs. I think> this will

tell you much about the value of accreditation.> > Gene Gandy> In a message

dated 11/28/07 10:54:31 AM, mhudson@mesquiteisdmhud <>

mailto:mhudson%mailto:mhudsonmai> writes:> > >> > I'm also concerned about some

of the college and independent programs who> > may have to drop paramedic

programs because of the cost of the > accreditation> > process. I have been with

2 programs who have gone through accreditation. > It's> > not cheap, and it

takes a mountain of support. Some might say if the > program> > can't go through

accreditation, then they are not worth keeping around.> > However, there are

some exceptional programs that just don't have the cash > to do> > it.

Hopefully, Dishes and GETAC will muster up and help with the expenses > and> >

provide tech assistance to programs seeking the now mandatory> > accreditation(

accreditation(I'm also concerned about some of the > college and independe>

> have to drop paramedic programs> >> > -MH> > ____________ ________ ________ _>

> From: texasems-l@yahoogro From: texasems-l@ya From: texasems-l@yahoogro<> wbr>

> Wayne D [rxmd911@... <mailto:rxmd911%mailto:rxmd> ]> > Sent: Wednesday,

November 28, 2007 9:30 AM> > To: texasems-l@yahoogro To: te> > Subject: Re:

Accredited programs in TX> >> > Lance,> >> > As I understand it and

has you have posted this " accreditation " is for> > paramedic programs only! This

also means that college based programs will > for the> > most part be the only

programs available to those wishing to take an EMT> > class.> >> > It my

understanding that it would be very hard for those independent> > programs that

do paramedic, EMT-I or EMT-B classes to receive this > " accreditation " > > It my

understanding that it would be very hard for those independent > programs> >

that d> >> > I don't agree with this process, just as I don't agree with taking

ECA's > off> > an ambulance as has been suggested by the Education Committee of

GETAC. > This> > would again put many rural volunteer providers out of business.

But, I'll> > talk about this with them off this list.> >> > Wayne> >> > Lance

Villers <villers@... <mailto:villers%mailto:vilmai> <>

mailto:villers%mailto:viller>> wrote:> > The Commission on Accreditation of

Allied Health Programs (CAAHEP)is> > the program accreditor for allied health

programs. The Committee on> > Accreditation of Educational Programs for the

Emergency Medical> > Services Professions (CoAEMSP)is the specific commission

under CAAHEP> > that accredits paramedic programs (There is no accreditation for

EMTB> > programs). See http://www.coaemsp.htt> >> > Currently there are 14

accredited programs in Texas. Although only> > schools are currently accredited

here in Texas, it is not required:> >> > Austin Community College - Austin, TX>

> Brazosport College - Lake , TX> > College of the Mainland - Texas City,

TX> > Galveston College - Galveston, TX> > Houston Community College System -

Houston, TX> > North Montgomery Community College - Houston, TX> > San

Jacinto College - Pasadena, TX> > San Jacinto College North - Houston, TX> >

South Plains College - Lubbock, TX> > Tarrant County College - Hurst, TX> >

University of Texas Hlth Science Ctr at San - San , TX> >

University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center - Dallas, TX> > University of

Texas-Brownsville and Texas Southmost College -> > Brownsville, TX> >> > > > >> > > Ok, accredited by who?? Does this limit

accredited programs to> > college-based programs?> > >> > > What programs are

currently nationally accredited?> > >> > > -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P> > >>

>> > ------------ -------- -------- --> > Get easy, one-click access to your

favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.> >> > [Non-text portions of this message

have been removed]> >> >> >> > ************ ******** ******** *******> Check out

AOL's list of 2007's hottest> products.> >

(http://money.http://money.<wbhttp://money.http://monhttp://money.<wbhttp)> >

November 28, 2007

I may be mistaken, but I believe post-graduation job placement and employer

satisfaction surveys are an element of CAHEP's accreditation. How important an

element, I don't know, but I seem to recall hearing that once. If that is indeed

the case, then we already have a mechanism in place for tracking how well those

graduates do one year out. The only question is, is it stringent enough?

Re: Accredited programs in TX

>

> Lance,

>

> As I understand it and has you have posted this " accreditation " is for

> paramedic programs only! This also means that college based programs will for

the

> most part be the only programs available to those wishing to take an EMT

> class.

>

> It my understanding that it would be very hard for those independent

> programs that do paramedic, EMT-I or EMT-B classes to receive this

" accreditation "

> It my understanding that it would be very hard for those independent programs

> that d

>

> I don't agree with this process, just as I don't agree with taking ECA's off

> an ambulance as has been suggested by the Education Committee of GETAC. This

> would again put many rural volunteer providers out of business. But, I'll

> talk about this with them off this list.

>

> Wayne

>

> Lance Villers <villers@... <mailto:villers%40uthscsa.vil>

<mailto:villers%mailto:vilmai>;> wrote:

> The Commission on Accreditation of Allied Health Programs (CAAHEP)is

> the program accreditor for allied health programs. The Committee on

> Accreditation of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical

> Services Professions (CoAEMSP)is the specific commission under CAAHEP

> that accredits paramedic programs (There is no accreditation for EMTB

> programs). See http://www.coaemsp.htt

>

> Currently there are 14 accredited programs in Texas. Although only

> schools are currently accredited here in Texas, it is not required:

>

> Austin Community College - Austin, TX

> Brazosport College - Lake , TX

> College of the Mainland - Texas City, TX

> Galveston College - Galveston, TX

> Houston Community College System - Houston, TX

> North Montgomery Community College - Houston, TX

> San Jacinto College - Pasadena, TX

> San Jacinto College North - Houston, TX

> South Plains College - Lubbock, TX

> Tarrant County College - Hurst, TX

> University of Texas Hlth Science Ctr at San - San , TX

> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center - Dallas, TX

> University of Texas-Brownsville and Texas Southmost College -

> Brownsville, TX

>

> >

> > Ok, accredited by who?? Does this limit accredited programs to

> college-based programs?

> >

> > What programs are currently nationally accredited?

> >

> > -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P

> >

>

> ------------ -------- -------- --

> Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.

>

November 28, 2007

Wes,

I would encourage you to ask NR what stakeholder groups they consulted with.Â I

am certain many of them were involved.Â The article posted earlier stated they

actually postponed this decision until they had more input from national

stakeholder groups.Â

Add to that, this is coming off of recommendations that were developed by

multiple inputs (agenda for the future, the latest state of emergency

healthcare, etc)...this speaks again to the frequent rant on here about

organizations to speak as a single voice...I am betting the one EMSAT is

associated with was in on this decision.

Dudley

Re: Accredited programs in TX

Lance,

As I understand it and has you have posted this " accreditation " is for paramedic

programs only! This also means that college based programs will for the most

part be the only programs available to those wishing to take an EMT class.

It my understanding that it would be very hard for those independent programs

that do paramedic, EMT-I or EMT-B classes to receive this " accreditation " , thus

putting them out of business, meaning rural areas are screwed if this happens.

I don't agree with this process, just as I don't agree with taking ECA's off an

ambulance as has been suggested by the Education Committee of GETAC. This would

again put many rural volunteer providers out of business. But, I'll talk about

this with them off this list.

Wayne

Lance Villers <villers@...<mailto:villers%40uthscsa.edu>> wrote:

The Commission on Accreditation of Allied Health Programs (CAAHEP)is

the program accreditor for allied health programs. The Committee on

Accreditation of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical

Services Professions (CoAEMSP)is the specific commission under CAAHEP

that accredits paramedic programs (There is no accreditation for EMTB

programs). See http://www.coaemsp.org

Currently there are 14 accredited programs in Texas. Although only

schools are currently accredited here in Texas, it is not required:

Austin Community College - Austin, TX

Brazosport College - Lake , TX

College of the Mainland - Texas City, TX

Galveston College - Galveston, TX

Houston Community College System - Houston, TX

North Montgomery Community College - Houston, TX

San Jacinto College - Pasadena, TX

San Jacinto College North - Houston, TX

South Plains College - Lubbock, TX

Tarrant County College - Hurst, TX

University of Texas Hlth Science Ctr at San - San , TX

University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center - Dallas, TX

University of Texas-Brownsville and Texas Southmost College -

Brownsville, TX

>

> Ok, accredited by who?? Does this limit accredited programs to

college-based programs?

>

> What programs are currently nationally accredited?

>

> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P

>

---------------------------------

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November 28, 2007

What is out of hand is spreading fear with inaccurate facts. Check out:

http://www.coaemsp.org/fees.htm

It says rates are as follows:

Initial Application Fee:

**$950.00 Due with the submission of CAAHEP Application.

**EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2008 INITIAL APPLICATION FEE WILL INCREASE TO $1200.00

Initial Self -Study Evaluation Fee:

$500.00 Due with the submission of Self-Study.

Initial Application Annual Report CD Fee:

$250 (one time fee) FOR INITIAL APPLICATIONS ONLY.Â Due with the submission of

Self-Study.

Initial Site Visit Fee:

Actual expenses of the on-site visit.Â The typical range of expenses is

$1500.00 to $2500.00 for a two-day, two-person on-site visit.

CONTINUING EVALUATION FEES (2002 +)

Evaluation Fee:

$500.00 Fee Due with submission of Self-Study.

ANNUAL FEES INITIAL AND CONTINUING:

Invoiced annually. All programs, including inactive programs and programs in the

application process as well as accredited programs are responsible for this fee.

2003 TO 2007 ANNUAL FEE IS $950.00

EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2008, THE ANNUAL FEE DUE AND PAYABLE EACH JULY 1stÂ WILL BE

$1200.00.

Site Visit Fee:

Actual expenses of the on-site visit.Â The typical range of expenses is

$1500.00 to $2500.00 for a two-day, two-person on-site visit.

Now, there could be some additional fees I am sure to get the equipment and

other resources up to an acceptable level...but working with Local Project

Grants, Rural Health grants, and other educational grants should be able to

assist.Â

I will agree, folks shouldn't wait until 2011 to begin looking at this...but I

predict some will and then start proclaiming how unfair they have been treated

and how this will be the end of rural EMS.Â Instead of GETAC and DSHS (an

advisory group and a regulatory agency) maybe we should begin looking seriously

at the Texas EMS, Trauma and Acute Care Foundation as a great group to help with

this...from grant allocation to technical assistance...the Professional

Education division could very well be a great asset in this growth process.Â

We have a private EMS training organization in the San area that has

been pursuing this for the last year or so...and it hasn't seemed to have broken

their bank yet.

Lets wait until the newsprint dries, and seriously examine the ramifications of

this requirement on EMS programs before we start abandoning the ship...we may

not be taking on water.

Dudley

Re: Accredited programs in TX

Thanks to Maxie for settling this before it gets out of hand!

Miles

On Nov 28, 2007 9:23 AM, <maxifire@...<mailto:maxifire%40aol.com>> wrote:

>

> CECBEMS

>

> What are the requirements for organizational accreditation?

> Here is a brief summary of the requirements for organizational

> accreditation:

>

> Â· Provide a written statement approved by its governing body that

> supports its EMS continuing education mission.

>

> Â· Demonstrate an ongoing needs assessment for specific EMS

> educational activities.

>

> Â· Submit a letter of recommendation or approval of its state EMS

> office.

>

> Â· Document resources consistent with its educational mission

> relative to EMS continuing education.

>

> Â· Submit a current agreement with physician medical director(s) to

> provide direction to the EMS and the CECBEMS program committee.

>

> Â· Maintain a program committee that reviews and approves all

> activities offered by the accredited organization and by cosponsoring

> organizations.

>

> Â· Comply with CECBEMS policies.

>

> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

> products.

> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

>

________________________________________________________________________

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November 28, 2007

Gene,

The local private program that is going through accreditation does a huge amount

of distance learning...doesn't seem to be impeding their progress...

Also if you are going to allow free competition in the community college

arena...why not go all the way and make it possible at all levels of the

education process....might see some improvement in the candidates coming through

the door of our accredited EMS training program if there was some more free

market forces in the basic education arena.

Dudley

RE: Accredited programs in TX

>

> I'm also concerned about some of the college and independent programs who

> may have to drop paramedic programs because of the cost of the accreditation

> process. I have been with 2 programs who have gone through accreditation.

> It's not cheap, and it takes a mountain of support. Some might say if the

> program can't go through accreditation, then they are not worth keeping

> around. However, there are some exceptional programs that just don't have

> the cash to do it. Hopefully, Dishes and GETAC will muster up and help with

> the expenses and provide tech assistance to programs seeking the now

> mandatory accreditation( mandatory accreditation(even though THEY di

> should be a top priority for the GETAC Education Committee.

>

> -MH

>

November 29, 2007

Illinois: They use a local company Continental Testing Service

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products.

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November 29, 2007

In a message dated 11/29/2007 3:40:45 A.M. Central Standard Time,

THEDUDMAN@... writes:

I am betting the one EMSAT is associated with was in on this decision.

To my knowledge EMSAT has taken no official position on this point.

While some members of EMSAT and perhaps even current and or former Members

of the EMSAT Board of Directors are Members of GETAC and or its Committees

EMSAT holds no official seats on any of those bodies. Various members of the

EMSAT Board of Directors have discussed this both publicly (most recently at

our

Annual Meeting at the TDSHS EMS Conference) as well as privately and this is

a situation that we are looking at correcting at the Board of Directors

level at EMSAT as per our last meeting.

CC: EMSAT 2007/2008 BoD Members

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Member of the Board of Directors and Vice-President of the EMS Association

of Texas (EMSAT)

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

products.

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November 29, 2007

In a message dated 11/29/2007 9:18:39 A.M. Central Standard Time,

ExLngHrn@... writes:

May I suggest emailing GETAC and/or DSHS?? When I raised some of my issues

with NR skills testing via email with the GETAC education committee members, I

received several emails and I understand the issue is being discussed and

addressed.

The beauty of GETAC and its committees as I see it is that every Members

personal e-Mail is posted on the web hence any Member of the EMS Community or

for that matter the general Public can and should contact these members and

voice their concern, also I am wiling to bet many of the members of the

Committees are on this list I know I've seen a few of the members of the

education

Committee post here hence they see the comments and discussions.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

products.

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

November 29, 2007

Where did you get that amount, can you cite your source? $50,000? I

recently worked with an agency that went through the process and the

cost was much less, more like $5,000.

AJL

>

> This is already out of hand.... the CoAEMSP process as stated before IS NOT

> easy or cheap. We're talking up to $50,000. Dishes needs to prepare a mail

> out to all advanced programs and have regional coordinator meetings ASAP

> with NR and CoAEMSP reps to get timely and factual information on this

> requirement. My program is well set for this. However, the overwhelming

> majority are not, and oblivious. Five years is a lot shorter than you think

> in getting prepared. Definitive leadership is needed now!!!

>

> -MH

> ________________________________

> From: texasems-l [texasems-l ] On Behalf Of

> Miles [scottywmiles@...]

> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:04 PM

>

> To: texasems-l

> Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

>

> Thanks to Maxie for settling this before it gets out of hand!

>

> Miles

>

> On Nov 28, 2007 9:23 AM, <maxifire@...<mailto:maxifire%40aol.com>>

> wrote:

> >

> > CECBEMS

> >

> > What are the requirements for organizational accreditation?

> > Here is a brief summary of the requirements for organizational

> > accreditation:

> >

> > · Provide a written statement approved by its governing body that

> > supports its EMS continuing education mission.

> >

> > · Demonstrate an ongoing needs assessment for specific EMS

> > educational activities.

> >

> > · Submit a letter of recommendation or approval of its state EMS

> > office.

> >

> > · Document resources consistent with its educational mission

> > relative to EMS continuing education.

> >

> > · Submit a current agreement with physician medical director(s) to

> > provide direction to the EMS and the CECBEMS program committee.

> >

> > · Maintain a program committee that reviews and approves all

> > activities offered by the accredited organization and by cosponsoring

> > organizations.

> >

> > · Comply with CECBEMS policies.

> >

> > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's

> hottest

> > products.

> > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

> >

>

November 29, 2007

Consultancy, Equipment, Library Resources, Hiring a Referee, Site Visit costs -

can add up very quickly - it would all depend on how close a program is to

meeting the standards already. A program I was affiliated with spent about

$50,000 for the whole process.

-MH

________________________________

From: texasems-l [texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Alan

Lambert [ajl442@...]

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:26 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

Where did you get that amount, can you cite your source? $50,000? I

recently worked with an agency that went through the process and the

cost was much less, more like $5,000.

AJL

On Nov 28, 2007 1:18 PM, Hudson

<mhudson@...<mailto:mhudson%40mesquiteisd.org>> wrote:

>

> This is already out of hand.... the CoAEMSP process as stated before IS NOT

> easy or cheap. We're talking up to $50,000. Dishes needs to prepare a mail

> out to all advanced programs and have regional coordinator meetings ASAP

> with NR and CoAEMSP reps to get timely and factual information on this

> requirement. My program is well set for this. However, the overwhelming

> majority are not, and oblivious. Five years is a lot shorter than you think

> in getting prepared. Definitive leadership is needed now!!!

>

> -MH

> ________________________________

> From: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

[texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of

> Miles [scottywmiles@...<mailto:scottywmiles%40gmail.com>]

> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:04 PM

>

> To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

>

> Thanks to Maxie for settling this before it gets out of hand!

>

> Miles

>

> On Nov 28, 2007 9:23 AM,

<maxifire@...<mailto:maxifire%40aol.com><mailto:maxifire%40aol.com>>

> wrote:

> >

> > CECBEMS

> >

> > What are the requirements for organizational accreditation?

> > Here is a brief summary of the requirements for organizational

> > accreditation:

> >

> > · Provide a written statement approved by its governing body that

> > supports its EMS continuing education mission.

> >

> > · Demonstrate an ongoing needs assessment for specific EMS

> > educational activities.

> >

> > · Submit a letter of recommendation or approval of its state EMS

> > office.

> >

> > · Document resources consistent with its educational mission

> > relative to EMS continuing education.

> >

> > · Submit a current agreement with physician medical director(s) to

> > provide direction to the EMS and the CECBEMS program committee.

> >

> > · Maintain a program committee that reviews and approves all

> > activities offered by the accredited organization and by cosponsoring

> > organizations.

> >

> > · Comply with CECBEMS policies.

> >

> > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's

> hottest

> > products.

> > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

> >

>

November 29, 2007

Gene,

" Again, why is Texas letting NREMT tell us what we need to do in EMS

education? Why isn't Texas telling NREMT what WE NEED, and demanding that they

either furnish it or give up the contract? "

A better question is why is GETAC not more vocal on this issue?

Henry