Question for siblings...

[Guest guest]

So I need some suggestions about what I can do for siblings. I've got 4 of them,

2 brothers, 2 sisters, all younger. Right now brother and sister 1 I'm not so

worried about because brother 1 is 20, has a good job that keeps him away from

nada most of the time, has good friends, etc. Sister 1 is 3 hours away at

college and doesn't have a cell phone for nada to harass her with. It's mostly

brother 2 (15 yo) and sister 2 (12yo) that I'm concernced about. I'm trying to

work on being less of a " parentified " child, and more of a sibling, but it's

hard to know what's appropriate.

Brother 2 is the black child now (used to be me). He's getting in trouble at

school a lot (ISS, detention, failing grades, etc.) and he tends to react with

too much anger at everything (certainly a flea from nada). He and nada get in

fights all the time, she has no idea how to deal with him. What really kills me

is that my dad fights with him a lot too, so now he's got both parents riding

his ass about everything instead of just calmly correcting his behavior and

giving normal, expected consequences (Ex. normal consequence: you didn't do your

kitchen chore yesterday, so now you've got twice the work. Nada consequence: I

perceive you are looking at me in a negative way. You're grounded for a month).

On top of the usual bpd bullshit, it feels to me like he's getting messages from

both parents of things like " you're not good enough. you never will be. why

can't you be like your older siblings. what's wrong with you? " I stick up for

him when nada yells, but I don't think it's enough. It breaks my heart to think

of him growing up with the endless nada voice in his head telling him he's

worthless, useless, he'll never be good enough. I don't know what else to do

except to tell him that BS is not true, he is a good person, and it doesn't

matter what nada says because even nada isn't good enough for nada. I talked to

him about the academic stuff and found out he honestly doesn't understand some

of it, so I've been helping him with it, like a tutor kind of.

Sister 2 is the golden child. I'm really at a loss as to how to help her because

I've never really been the good kid. I was always the rebellious, defiant,

nasty, argumentative one. She told me she feels like everyone thinks she's

basically a pawn for nada, but she doesn't want to be. I feel bad because I

think we do all kind of treat her like a nada pawn, but on the other hand, she

milks it. I can't blame her too much. It's much easier to just suck up to nada

or ignore her than it is to take her anger. Nada can be nice when she wants to

be. I don't want this sister to end up enmeshed and stuck with nada when the

rest of us have gotten the eff out of there.

So I guess my question is for both the black child and the golden child. What

can I do to undo some of the damage? What did your siblings do? What do you wish

they had done?

[Guest guest]

Hi ! Your brother and sister are really lucky to have you. Your bro is

responding with a lot of anger cos he's not getting the attention and care he

needs from them. So, now, he's getting the only attention they are able to give

him--all negative. As you're all still kind of dependent on your parents, for at

the very least, a roof over your head, I for one would think that by just

relaying and maintaining the knowledge that mom and dad have serious problems

would be a big help for young people who think that they are the cause of

parental unhappiness. It is really hard to be in the soup but if you can, find

a way to verbally disengage from the folks. I mean, if you can step outside of

the negative things you hear and not engage in an argument, a hook they're

looking for, and ~try~ to mind your own business, that might at least shut them

up. But please don't let your self esteem ride on people who have none and may

only start having an inkling of it with a LOT of time and effort with a very

trained professional in their disorders. Do well in school, only cos it's rough

out there, and don't give them the satisfaction of playing into their

superficially-deemed projections. I am way older than you, 46 now, and I had

an idea that things were not right in my household but couldn't tell you why. I

sought help for an eating disorder when I was 18, but was referred to a social

worker who didn't think I had a problem! So much for getting help at that time,

but with the input of a good friend and a sliding scale for psychological

treatment at Columbia University back in the day, I began the long hard road to

disentangle myself from all of that. I wonder if there is any sort of program

for people in your age range to help you out?

It's not easy. I have issues that can still sideline me for a month or two if

I'm not careful, but my thoughts are with you and your bro and sis.

Amy

>

> So I need some suggestions about what I can do for siblings. I've got 4 of

them, 2 brothers, 2 sisters, all younger. Right now brother and sister 1 I'm not

so worried about because brother 1 is 20, has a good job that keeps him away

from nada most of the time, has good friends, etc. Sister 1 is 3 hours away at

college and doesn't have a cell phone for nada to harass her with. It's mostly

brother 2 (15 yo) and sister 2 (12yo) that I'm concernced about. I'm trying to

work on being less of a " parentified " child, and more of a sibling, but it's

hard to know what's appropriate.

>

> Brother 2 is the black child now (used to be me). He's getting in trouble at

school a lot (ISS, detention, failing grades, etc.) and he tends to react with

too much anger at everything (certainly a flea from nada). He and nada get in

fights all the time, she has no idea how to deal with him. What really kills me

is that my dad fights with him a lot too, so now he's got both parents riding

his ass about everything instead of just calmly correcting his behavior and

giving normal, expected consequences (Ex. normal consequence: you didn't do your

kitchen chore yesterday, so now you've got twice the work. Nada consequence: I

perceive you are looking at me in a negative way. You're grounded for a month).

On top of the usual bpd bullshit, it feels to me like he's getting messages from

both parents of things like " you're not good enough. you never will be. why

can't you be like your older siblings. what's wrong with you? " I stick up for

him when nada yells, but I don't think it's enough. It breaks my heart to think

of him growing up with the endless nada voice in his head telling him he's

worthless, useless, he'll never be good enough. I don't know what else to do

except to tell him that BS is not true, he is a good person, and it doesn't

matter what nada says because even nada isn't good enough for nada. I talked to

him about the academic stuff and found out he honestly doesn't understand some

of it, so I've been helping him with it, like a tutor kind of.

>

> Sister 2 is the golden child. I'm really at a loss as to how to help her

because I've never really been the good kid. I was always the rebellious,

defiant, nasty, argumentative one. She told me she feels like everyone thinks

she's basically a pawn for nada, but she doesn't want to be. I feel bad because

I think we do all kind of treat her like a nada pawn, but on the other hand, she

milks it. I can't blame her too much. It's much easier to just suck up to nada

or ignore her than it is to take her anger. Nada can be nice when she wants to

be. I don't want this sister to end up enmeshed and stuck with nada when the

rest of us have gotten the eff out of there.

>

> So I guess my question is for both the black child and the golden child. What

can I do to undo some of the damage? What did your siblings do? What do you wish

they had done?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Speaking as another eldest, parentified, bad child (and as a person who has

studied this stuff), I would say the single best thing you can do is to validate

their individual perspectives.  Let them know that you see them and their

particular realities independently from nada's projections of them and in all of

it's complexity to the extent that is appropriate for their ages.  It is really

tough for a kid to form a coherent sense of one's self when getting all the

distorted reflections one gets from a BPD mom.  Doing that for them well and

often is truly priceless.

I didn't get accurate, empathic reflection from anyone until I was a fully

formed adult, but it has still made an ENORMOUS difference.  It isn't too late

and it really is the single best gift you can give. 

My guess is that it will be somewhat healing for you to be able to give it too.

S.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2011 11:00:12 PM

Subject: Question for siblings...

 

So I need some suggestions about what I can do for siblings. I've got 4 of them,

2 brothers, 2 sisters, all younger. Right now brother and sister 1 I'm not so

worried about because brother 1 is 20, has a good job that keeps him away from

nada most of the time, has good friends, etc. Sister 1 is 3 hours away at

college and doesn't have a cell phone for nada to harass her with. It's mostly

brother 2 (15 yo) and sister 2 (12yo) that I'm concernced about. I'm trying to

work on being less of a " parentified " child, and more of a sibling, but it's

hard to know what's appropriate.

Brother 2 is the black child now (used to be me). He's getting in trouble at

school a lot (ISS, detention, failing grades, etc.) and he tends to react with

too much anger at everything (certainly a flea from nada). He and nada get in

fights all the time, she has no idea how to deal with him. What really kills me

is that my dad fights with him a lot too, so now he's got both parents riding

his ass about everything instead of just calmly correcting his behavior and

giving normal, expected consequences (Ex. normal consequence: you didn't do your

kitchen chore yesterday, so now you've got twice the work. Nada consequence: I

perceive you are looking at me in a negative way. You're grounded for a month).

On top of the usual bpd bullshit, it feels to me like he's getting messages from

both parents of things like " you're not good enough. you never will be. why

can't you be like your older siblings. what's wrong with you? " I stick up for

him when nada yells, but

I don't think it's enough. It breaks my heart to think of him growing up with

the endless nada voice in his head telling him he's worthless, useless, he'll

never be good enough. I don't know what else to do except to tell him that BS is

not true, he is a good person, and it doesn't matter what nada says because even

nada isn't good enough for nada. I talked to him about the academic stuff and

found out he honestly doesn't understand some of it, so I've been helping him

with it, like a tutor kind of.

Sister 2 is the golden child. I'm really at a loss as to how to help her because

I've never really been the good kid. I was always the rebellious, defiant,

nasty, argumentative one. She told me she feels like everyone thinks she's

basically a pawn for nada, but she doesn't want to be. I feel bad because I

think we do all kind of treat her like a nada pawn, but on the other hand, she

milks it. I can't blame her too much. It's much easier to just suck up to nada

or ignore her than it is to take her anger. Nada can be nice when she wants to

be. I don't want this sister to end up enmeshed and stuck with nada when the

rest of us have gotten the eff out of there.

So I guess my question is for both the black child and the golden child. What

can I do to undo some of the damage? What did your siblings do? What do you wish

they had done?

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I'd actually do nothing. Unless asked by a sibling. I'm the oldest sibling of 4

kids as well. I was a parentified child and my 2 younger siblings complained to

my Dad recently that they felt that my brother and I (we are the closest 2 in

age) were trying to parent them. I agree to a certain extent. We did try to

parent them. But my Mom is BPD, so I guess we were pushed into that role. So I

guess, just step away, don't worry, and do nothing until asked for advice or

help. The only thing I would do, if you feel like, is state clearly that you

believe your Mom has BPD, and point them in the direction of books or article to

read up on it to help them through. Other than that, the more you try to help,

the more you will be pushed away, and not only that, sometimes, helping actually

hurts the people you love, you may be seen as an " enabler " . I just read a book

called " The Enabler " which I found fantastic. It's true that if you try to help

too much, you will not allow your siblings to cope on their own, and once they

are without you, they may just fall apart.

Just my two cents worth on it.

N

[Guest guest]

I think the best thing you can do is just try to be the " normal " person in their

life. Try to have healthy relationships with them so that they know what a

healthy relationship feels like.

You are not responsible for them, and allowing yourself to feel that way is the

beginning of co-dependency. I was the golden child and then the bad child. From

my opinion it was easier to break the cycle when Nada changed her opinion of me

from good to bad. So as far as your good sister goes, all I would try is to

bring up things for her to consider. I was pushed into doing a lot of things I

didn't want to by nada, so I would say make sure your sister knows she has a

choice. Say sister likes soccer, and nada pushes sister in soccer because it

feeds her ego. I would maybe ask sister, in a normal conversation, so are you

interested in trying things other than soccer? Help her know she has choices in

her life and doesn't always have to do what nada wants. That's the one way I

would suggest you could help.

I think sticking up for your brother is great, because he's too young to stand

up for himself right now. But again, I want you to remember that they are not

your responsibility, and just because your nada is a nada does not make them

your responsibility. Make sure that you take care of yourself and don't

sacrifice yourself and your sanity and mental health to save them. I know that

sounds harsh, but you can't be of any use to them if you become enmeshed in the

situation again.

Just my two cents.

>

> So I need some suggestions about what I can do for siblings. I've got 4 of

them, 2 brothers, 2 sisters, all younger. Right now brother and sister 1 I'm not

so worried about because brother 1 is 20, has a good job that keeps him away

from nada most of the time, has good friends, etc. Sister 1 is 3 hours away at

college and doesn't have a cell phone for nada to harass her with. It's mostly

brother 2 (15 yo) and sister 2 (12yo) that I'm concernced about. I'm trying to

work on being less of a " parentified " child, and more of a sibling, but it's

hard to know what's appropriate.

>

> Brother 2 is the black child now (used to be me). He's getting in trouble at

school a lot (ISS, detention, failing grades, etc.) and he tends to react with

too much anger at everything (certainly a flea from nada). He and nada get in

fights all the time, she has no idea how to deal with him. What really kills me

is that my dad fights with him a lot too, so now he's got both parents riding

his ass about everything instead of just calmly correcting his behavior and

giving normal, expected consequences (Ex. normal consequence: you didn't do your

kitchen chore yesterday, so now you've got twice the work. Nada consequence: I

perceive you are looking at me in a negative way. You're grounded for a month).

On top of the usual bpd bullshit, it feels to me like he's getting messages from

both parents of things like " you're not good enough. you never will be. why

can't you be like your older siblings. what's wrong with you? " I stick up for

him when nada yells, but I don't think it's enough. It breaks my heart to think

of him growing up with the endless nada voice in his head telling him he's

worthless, useless, he'll never be good enough. I don't know what else to do

except to tell him that BS is not true, he is a good person, and it doesn't

matter what nada says because even nada isn't good enough for nada. I talked to

him about the academic stuff and found out he honestly doesn't understand some

of it, so I've been helping him with it, like a tutor kind of.

>

> Sister 2 is the golden child. I'm really at a loss as to how to help her

because I've never really been the good kid. I was always the rebellious,

defiant, nasty, argumentative one. She told me she feels like everyone thinks

she's basically a pawn for nada, but she doesn't want to be. I feel bad because

I think we do all kind of treat her like a nada pawn, but on the other hand, she

milks it. I can't blame her too much. It's much easier to just suck up to nada

or ignore her than it is to take her anger. Nada can be nice when she wants to

be. I don't want this sister to end up enmeshed and stuck with nada when the

rest of us have gotten the eff out of there.

>

> So I guess my question is for both the black child and the golden child. What

can I do to undo some of the damage? What did your siblings do? What do you wish

they had done?

>

[Guest guest]

My sibling story goes like this: I have two brothers: one older by 2 years and

one younger by 10 years. I was always protective of my baby brother, since nada

basically left me to care for him on my own from when he was born. He and I were

always close, and I was the good child while he was the bad child. When I went

away to college and eventually to the opposite coast, I still regularly stood up

for him, arguing with nada on the phone when she would try to throw him out

(which she did many times). I even arranged for him to come live with me, but he

had a panic attack on the plane and had to get off before takeoff. He couldn't

tear himself away from nada.

I always went to bat for my little brother. It hurt so much to know he was in

nada's grip and I wasn't there to protect him. The guilt was huge. Fast forward

to three years ago, nada created a disaster at a family function, of course

using my little brother as a pawn in her emotional terrorism. I told her I had

had enough of her abuse, to which she retaliated by telling all sorts of lies to

my little brother. He wrote me a horrible letter about how I was " never there "

for him and other things that one would say to a mother, not a sister. She must

have told him some serious BS because he told me to f* & k off. We haven't spoken

in three years.

Unfortunately, I hear from my older brother's wife that my little brother has

become a complete narcissist. He tells people he is a big-shot lawyer and posts

regular Facebook updates about big court cases and contracts when, in fact, he

is living with nada and doesn't even go to school.

It's hard not to feel responsible. I always think that if nada hadn't divided

and conquered, I would have remained the voice of reality in his life and kept

him from going down this path. He thinks he's the good child with nada now,

since he lives with her, she gives him money and a car and other things, and

they are united in their hatred of me. I know bad things are coming in that

situation. But I do have to shed the responsibility and remind myself that the

only life I can save is my own.

> >

> > So I need some suggestions about what I can do for siblings. I've got 4 of

them, 2 brothers, 2 sisters, all younger. Right now brother and sister 1 I'm not

so worried about because brother 1 is 20, has a good job that keeps him away

from nada most of the time, has good friends, etc. Sister 1 is 3 hours away at

college and doesn't have a cell phone for nada to harass her with. It's mostly

brother 2 (15 yo) and sister 2 (12yo) that I'm concernced about. I'm trying to

work on being less of a " parentified " child, and more of a sibling, but it's

hard to know what's appropriate.

> >

> > Brother 2 is the black child now (used to be me). He's getting in trouble at

school a lot (ISS, detention, failing grades, etc.) and he tends to react with

too much anger at everything (certainly a flea from nada). He and nada get in

fights all the time, she has no idea how to deal with him. What really kills me

is that my dad fights with him a lot too, so now he's got both parents riding

his ass about everything instead of just calmly correcting his behavior and

giving normal, expected consequences (Ex. normal consequence: you didn't do your

kitchen chore yesterday, so now you've got twice the work. Nada consequence: I

perceive you are looking at me in a negative way. You're grounded for a month).

On top of the usual bpd bullshit, it feels to me like he's getting messages from

both parents of things like " you're not good enough. you never will be. why

can't you be like your older siblings. what's wrong with you? " I stick up for

him when nada yells, but I don't think it's enough. It breaks my heart to think

of him growing up with the endless nada voice in his head telling him he's

worthless, useless, he'll never be good enough. I don't know what else to do

except to tell him that BS is not true, he is a good person, and it doesn't

matter what nada says because even nada isn't good enough for nada. I talked to

him about the academic stuff and found out he honestly doesn't understand some

of it, so I've been helping him with it, like a tutor kind of.

> >

> > Sister 2 is the golden child. I'm really at a loss as to how to help her

because I've never really been the good kid. I was always the rebellious,

defiant, nasty, argumentative one. She told me she feels like everyone thinks

she's basically a pawn for nada, but she doesn't want to be. I feel bad because

I think we do all kind of treat her like a nada pawn, but on the other hand, she

milks it. I can't blame her too much. It's much easier to just suck up to nada

or ignore her than it is to take her anger. Nada can be nice when she wants to

be. I don't want this sister to end up enmeshed and stuck with nada when the

rest of us have gotten the eff out of there.

> >

> > So I guess my question is for both the black child and the golden child.

What can I do to undo some of the damage? What did your siblings do? What do you

wish they had done?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hey ,

Yes, it is really hard to not feel responsible, even if you know in your head

that you aren't. I know Nada was filling all 4 sibs' heads with lies about me

when I went to college. It's only after being home for 5 months that they've

realized she was totally scamming them. The older two I think have finally

recognized that for their own good they need to just take what nada says about

ANY other person with a grain of salt until they've heard the same story from

someone else. The younger 2 are harder. I don't want them to see me like a

parent, I just want to be a good big sis. I know ultimately that the choices

they make are their own, but it's still hard to shake the feeling that I SHOULD

do something since right now I'm the only rational adult they see on a regular

basis. Argh.

Subject: Re: Question for siblings...

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Saturday, October 8, 2011, 12:00 PM

 

My sibling story goes like this: I have two brothers: one older by 2 years

and one younger by 10 years. I was always protective of my baby brother, since

nada basically left me to care for him on my own from when he was born. He and I

were always close, and I was the good child while he was the bad child. When I

went away to college and eventually to the opposite coast, I still regularly

stood up for him, arguing with nada on the phone when she would try to throw him

out (which she did many times). I even arranged for him to come live with me,

but he had a panic attack on the plane and had to get off before takeoff. He

couldn't tear himself away from nada.

I always went to bat for my little brother. It hurt so much to know he was in

nada's grip and I wasn't there to protect him. The guilt was huge. Fast forward

to three years ago, nada created a disaster at a family function, of course

using my little brother as a pawn in her emotional terrorism. I told her I had

had enough of her abuse, to which she retaliated by telling all sorts of lies to

my little brother. He wrote me a horrible letter about how I was " never there "

for him and other things that one would say to a mother, not a sister. She must

have told him some serious BS because he told me to f* & k off. We haven't spoken

in three years.

Unfortunately, I hear from my older brother's wife that my little brother has

become a complete narcissist. He tells people he is a big-shot lawyer and posts

regular Facebook updates about big court cases and contracts when, in fact, he

is living with nada and doesn't even go to school.

It's hard not to feel responsible. I always think that if nada hadn't divided

and conquered, I would have remained the voice of reality in his life and kept

him from going down this path. He thinks he's the good child with nada now,

since he lives with her, she gives him money and a car and other things, and

they are united in their hatred of me. I know bad things are coming in that

situation. But I do have to shed the responsibility and remind myself that the

only life I can save is my own.

[Guest guest]

, you're right. Taking responsibility for them is not going to help

anyone, least of all myself. In fact, it's just enabling nada to act the way she

does even more. It's just hard to sit back and watch them get bitched out over

nothing. It's like watching the schoolyard bully come and kick your kid sibling

around. It brings out the protective side. I know it's not my job to raise them.

I just want to be a support when they need it.

I do try to be relatively " normal " , though the more I learn about all this stuff

the more I realize I know nothing about any of it. I've been encouraging the

" outside " friendships they have too. I didn't really have any steady friends

until junior of high school. Nada chased them all away (they thought she was

crazy a long time before I did). But once I did make some good friends they were

the best escape. I kind of got " adopted " by my best friend's parents who saw

nada for what she was. I don't know if that's what my siblings want but I figure

a little extra time around sane families can't hurt anything, lol.

Subject: Re: Question for siblings...

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Friday, October 7, 2011, 12:09 PM

 

I think the best thing you can do is just try to be the " normal " person in

their life. Try to have healthy relationships with them so that they know what a

healthy relationship feels like.

You are not responsible for them, and allowing yourself to feel that way is the

beginning of co-dependency. I was the golden child and then the bad child. From

my opinion it was easier to break the cycle when Nada changed her opinion of me

from good to bad. So as far as your good sister goes, all I would try is to

bring up things for her to consider. I was pushed into doing a lot of things I

didn't want to by nada, so I would say make sure your sister knows she has a

choice. Say sister likes soccer, and nada pushes sister in soccer because it

feeds her ego. I would maybe ask sister, in a normal conversation, so are you

interested in trying things other than soccer? Help her know she has choices in

her life and doesn't always have to do what nada wants. That's the one way I

would suggest you could help.

I think sticking up for your brother is great, because he's too young to stand

up for himself right now. But again, I want you to remember that they are not

your responsibility, and just because your nada is a nada does not make them

your responsibility. Make sure that you take care of yourself and don't

sacrifice yourself and your sanity and mental health to save them. I know that

sounds harsh, but you can't be of any use to them if you become enmeshed in the

situation again.

Just my two cents.

[Guest guest]

Hey N, thanks for the response and the book recommendation. I'll have to check

that one out. You're right that trying to parent them would definitely be

enabling nada's dysfunctional behavior. The only problem I have with doing

nothing (other than that it kills me) is that nobody in our house asks for

anything. I mean, *anything* that's actually important. I'm not entirely sure

why, but I know even I am reluctant to ask my parents for anything at all

because they kind of have this, 'ooookaaaay, but this is a huge sacrifice and

you'd better be grateful. if you only knew what it cost me to do this for you

you wouldn't ask' kind of vibe, even over little things like school lunch money.

I'd like to find a balance. Why does this have to be so complicated? lol

Subject: Re: Re: Question for siblings...

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Friday, October 7, 2011, 10:32 AM

 

Hi ,

I'd actually do nothing. Unless asked by a sibling. I'm the oldest sibling of 4

kids as well. I was a parentified child and my 2 younger siblings complained to

my Dad recently that they felt that my brother and I (we are the closest 2 in

age) were trying to parent them. I agree to a certain extent. We did try to

parent them. But my Mom is BPD, so I guess we were pushed into that role. So I

guess, just step away, don't worry, and do nothing until asked for advice or

help. The only thing I would do, if you feel like, is state clearly that you

believe your Mom has BPD, and point them in the direction of books or article to

read up on it to help them through. Other than that, the more you try to help,

the more you will be pushed away, and not only that, sometimes, helping actually

hurts the people you love, you may be seen as an " enabler " . I just read a book

called " The Enabler " which I found fantastic. It's true that if you try to help

too much, you

will not allow your siblings to cope on their own, and once they are without

you, they may just fall apart.

Just my two cents worth on it.

N

[Guest guest]

Thanks, . This seems like really sound advice. I think getting reflection

from " normal " people was the best thing that happened to me too. Most of it I

got when I left home for 4 years for college. The older of my 2 sisters has only

been away at college for a couple of months but I can see she seems a lot

happier and emotionally stable. I'm just hoping the youngest will make it that

far, lol.

Subject: Re: Question for siblings...

To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " <WTOAdultChildren1 >

Date: Friday, October 7, 2011, 10:13 AM

 

Hi ,

Speaking as another eldest, parentified, bad child (and as a person who has

studied this stuff), I would say the single best thing you can do is to validate

their individual perspectives.  Let them know that you see them and their

particular realities independently from nada's projections of them and in all of

it's complexity to the extent that is appropriate for their ages.  It is really

tough for a kid to form a coherent sense of one's self when getting all the

distorted reflections one gets from a BPD mom.  Doing that for them well and

often is truly priceless.

I didn't get accurate, empathic reflection from anyone until I was a fully

formed adult, but it has still made an ENORMOUS difference.  It isn't too late

and it really is the single best gift you can give. 

My guess is that it will be somewhat healing for you to be able to give it too.

S.

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Amy, this made me smile. My parents always try to play it up like my

brother's just so rage filled all the time, unreasonable, pissy, an a-hole, etc.

I think he's also pretty conflicted. Part of him (the normal teenage boy part,

lol) doesn't want to do things like homework and chores, so by arguing with my

parents (and them yelling back), they get sucked down to his level so he doesn't

feel like they have any authority. On the other hand, I think what he really

wants deep down is for someone to stand up and take charge, act like a adult

parent. He tries to get me and my other brother to argue with him over things

too, but we just kind of ignore it, don't let him goad us, and he goes back to

being fine. It blows my mind that my parents can't see that, let alone do it.

I don't think there are any programs specifically for my age group, but I have

been going to the local NAMI family support group meetings and found them very

helpful. Most of the people there are around my parents' age or older, which is

great for me (young grasshopper learn much, lol). I'll probably be moving in a

few weeks to a college town. Maybe I can find some groups that meet close to

campus and attract a younger crowd. Worth a shot.

Subject: Re: Question for siblings...

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Friday, October 7, 2011, 7:44 AM

 

Hi ! Your brother and sister are really lucky to have you. Your bro

is responding with a lot of anger cos he's not getting the attention and care he

needs from them. So, now, he's getting the only attention they are able to give

him--all negative. As you're all still kind of dependent on your parents, for at

the very least, a roof over your head, I for one would think that by just

relaying and maintaining the knowledge that mom and dad have serious problems

would be a big help for young people who think that they are the cause of

parental unhappiness. It is really hard to be in the soup but if you can, find

a way to verbally disengage from the folks. I mean, if you can step outside of

the negative things you hear and not engage in an argument, a hook they're

looking for, and ~try~ to mind your own business, that might at least shut them

up. But please don't let your self esteem ride on people who have none and may

only start having an

inkling of it with a LOT of time and effort with a very trained professional in

their disorders. Do well in school, only cos it's rough out there, and don't

give them the satisfaction of playing into their superficially-deemed

projections. I am way older than you, 46 now, and I had an idea that things

were not right in my household but couldn't tell you why. I sought help for an

eating disorder when I was 18, but was referred to a social worker who didn't

think I had a problem! So much for getting help at that time, but with the

input of a good friend and a sliding scale for psychological treatment at

Columbia University back in the day, I began the long hard road to disentangle

myself from all of that. I wonder if there is any sort of program for people in

your age range to help you out?

It's not easy. I have issues that can still sideline me for a month or two if

I'm not careful, but my thoughts are with you and your bro and sis.

Amy

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I found out that there is no such thing as " balance " with BPD. It always boils

down to all or nothing with them. Black and White Thinking. It's either they

get their way all the time, or make your life hell if they don't. It's that

simple with them. That is why I'm NC with my Mom. I tried to find the " balance "

in the relationship, and it didn't work. She wanted to call all the shots, have

the upper hand, etc. I went NC with my youngest Sis too because she was too much

like Mom and it got emotionally burdensome to have her in my life. At the end

of the day, it's either all or nothing with BPDs and if you can find a way to

get yourself out of enmeshment with them, you will be able to find yourself, and

your life. I found that I was spending too much time and emotional energy stuck

in family troubles and they never ended well. It was a cycle of never-ending

turmoil and I decided to opt out of it. Now I have so much more time, I can

think clearly, I am HAPPY for the first time. I wake up HAPPY. I'm all smiles

and bounce back from any trouble, instead of brooding over things like I used

to. That's only my experience with this though. It helped to read lots of

books, such as " The Enabler " , " understanding the Borderline Mother " , " Stop

Walking on Eggshells " , " Toxic Parents " , " Emotional Blackmail. " They were all

great books that helped me through - I didn't go into therapy cause I thought

that the books would be sufficient. So far, I feel they are sufficient.

Hope the above helps you too.

Hugs,

N

> Hey N, thanks for the response and the book recommendation. I'll have to check

that one out. You're right that trying to parent them would definitely be

enabling nada's dysfunctional behavior. The only problem I have with doing

nothing (other than that it kills me) is that nobody in our house asks for

anything. I mean, *anything* that's actually important. I'm not entirely sure

why, but I know even I am reluctant to ask my parents for anything at all

because they kind of have this, 'ooookaaaay, but this is a huge sacrifice and

you'd better be grateful. if you only knew what it cost me to do this for you

you wouldn't ask' kind of vibe, even over little things like school lunch money.

I'd like to find a balance. Why does this have to be so complicated? lol

>

>

>

>

> Subject: Re: Re: Question for siblings...

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Friday, October 7, 2011, 10:32 AM

>

>

>

> Hi ,

>

> I'd actually do nothing. Unless asked by a sibling. I'm the oldest sibling of

4 kids as well. I was a parentified child and my 2 younger siblings complained

to my Dad recently that they felt that my brother and I (we are the closest 2 in

age) were trying to parent them. I agree to a certain extent. We did try to

parent them. But my Mom is BPD, so I guess we were pushed into that role. So I

guess, just step away, don't worry, and do nothing until asked for advice or

help. The only thing I would do, if you feel like, is state clearly that you

believe your Mom has BPD, and point them in the direction of books or article to

read up on it to help them through. Other than that, the more you try to help,

the more you will be pushed away, and not only that, sometimes, helping actually

hurts the people you love, you may be seen as an " enabler " . I just read a book

called " The Enabler " which I found fantastic. It's true that if you try to help

too much, you

> will not allow your siblings to cope on their own, and once they are without

you, they may just fall apart.

>

> Just my two cents worth on it.

>

> N

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are most welcome.  I've known of lots of people who emerged out of

childhood craziness and later in life said that it was this one person (sibling,

teacher, therapist, grandparent, etc.) who made all the difference.  Invariably

what they say is that this person recognized their goodness, saw them for who

they really were, stuck with them, and really cared about them in an

open-hearted way.  

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2011 11:28:43 PM

Subject: Re: Question for siblings...

 

Thanks, . This seems like really sound advice. I think getting reflection

from " normal " people was the best thing that happened to me too. Most of it I

got when I left home for 4 years for college. The older of my 2 sisters has only

been away at college for a couple of months but I can see she seems a lot

happier and emotionally stable. I'm just hoping the youngest will make it that

far, lol.

Subject: Re: Question for siblings...

To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " <WTOAdultChildren1 >

Date: Friday, October 7, 2011, 10:13 AM

 

Hi ,

Speaking as another eldest, parentified, bad child (and as a person who has

studied this stuff), I would say the single best thing you can do is to validate

their individual perspectives.  Let them know that you see them and their

particular realities independently from nada's projections of them and in all of

it's complexity to the extent that is appropriate for their ages.  It is really

tough for a kid to form a coherent sense of one's self when getting all the

distorted reflections one gets from a BPD mom.  Doing that for them well and

often is truly priceless.

I didn't get accurate, empathic reflection from anyone until I was a fully

formed adult, but it has still made an ENORMOUS difference.  It isn't too late

and it really is the single best gift you can give. 

My guess is that it will be somewhat healing for you to be able to give it too.

S.