repairing relationships amongst non BP siblings damaged by a BP mother

[Guest guest]

Hi Svaktshka,

I'm now emailing from my new " anonomyized " account.

Yes, I've apologized. I've tried to open up the lines of communication on

this topic many times. I've not only given her permission, but I've

suggested that it would be good for us both in the longer term if she told

me anything she wants me to acknowledge or apologize for from the past, even

though it might be hard for me to hear in the short term. However, one of

her many rules is that we are not supposed to talk about the past, so she

doesn't/hasn't taken me up on my offer.

When we were younger what I feel bad about is that I was competitive with

her. Mostly normal sibling stuff, but people in our father's side of the

family were bizarrely competitive, so I think I was learning some of it from

watching people around me. I always wanted to beat her at things, like card

games and races and so on. The thing is it was easy because she was younger

than me. I feel like an idiot about it now. I also wanted her to do things

for me, like to go to the corner store and get something that I wanted. I

would talk her into it by bribing her and buying her something, but I knew

she didn't really want to do it. I was pushy with her to get my way and I

guess you could say that I bossed her around. I feel like an idiot about

that too. Later in our childhoods, I was just insensitive to her needs and

feelings by ignoring her. She was really, really withdrawn, so it wasn't

hard to do. When I found a way to get away from our nada by being out of

the house by hanging out with friends and then boyfriends I threw myself

into my social life and did not look back. I can only imagine she felt

forsaken. It was not intentional, but I sure feel bad that I didn't care

about her more at that time by tuning into her world. I was pretty

self-involved.

It is funny because as a parent myself now, I am very quick to not let my

older daughter do that sort of thing to my younger daughter. I think on

some level I am very sensitive to it because I am trying to make up for the

past with my sister. When I see my kids being generous and loving with each

other rather than competitive and selfish, it is one of the few things that

makes up for the sadness and grief I have about my sister and our

relationship.

I think that part of what is going on for my sister and I now is that she

never had a chance to rebel against my parents in the normal developmental

sense of separating and individuating. For one thing, they were not normal

parents. Our parents were divorced and our fada (NPD) had already absented

himself from our lives. Our nada (BPD) was no picnic to separate from.

When I was going through it, she raged at me and disowned me and then went

on a character assassination campaign to discredit me with pretty much

anyone who would listen including my sister. Having witnessed all of this

first hand, I think my sister decided it was not safe to separate. And it

wasn't. She was pretty much brainwashed by my nada into thinking I was bad

and that her job was to take care of nada's needs and especially since I was

so awful and not doing so myself anymore as I once had. The reason I am

explaining all of this is that I suspect that part of what is going on now

is that my sister is separating. I was probably the closest thing to a

parent that she did have. There were definitely times when I was protective

and supportive of her in ways that a parent should be. Of course, as a

child myself, I was mighty inconsistent and sometimes misguided.

Even though I can understand it in this way, it still hurts and the way she

is going about it is especially hurtful. She has (or had at least)

convinced herself the I have BPD and that she has to keep herself safe from

me. She has never said that to me directly, but it has been obvious by the

way she was treating me and things she was saying. We've both read the same

books and she follows the suggestions in them like a script and has adopted

much of their language.

I can understand how I remind her of nada in some ways (including even

physically, but also in terms of temperament as I am quite a passionate and

emotional person), but she treats me like I am nada. It is really weird and

creepy. It is like she can not or will not see me as me. It feel as though

she has an actual aversion to me. I think I just must remind her too much

of a painful past that she wants to forget, so she has to shut me out. The

last times that I have been around her and when she has corresponded with me

by email, she has been really stiff and formal with me, verging on cold and

business-like. Saccharin and polite on the surface, but angry indirectly

underneath. It has been really unpleasant. I've asked her about it, but

she just says she is not willing to discuss it.

Another part of the history is that I had been saying for years and years

and years that nada was mentally ill and that it was BPB. My sister did not

want to hear it at the time. That was when she started making rules about

topics of conversation that were permissible and not. She didn't want to

know about BPD and she didn't want to talk about nada with me. More

recently, since nada cut my sister off a couple of years ago, my sister

started learning about BPD. Now she fancies herself an expert on the

subject.

With me, she is just closed. It sucks and is very painful. She does not

want to be known in an intimate way (certainly by me, but I suspect by

anyone), and she does not want to know me as me or in an intimate way. She

would be happy to talk about our kids and pretend to be cheerful, but I am

really bad at faking it in this way when there is so much unsaid lurking

under the surface. I've said all of this to her, but she chooses to ignore

it.

The good news is that I have a really wonderful set of friends and partner

(my family of choice), so I'm not lonely overall. I just wish she and I

could share more with each other.

I am really glad that you and your sister found a way to be close and

supportive of each other. And I really appreciate talking to you about this

stuff. It's way better than having it only in my head and I'm finding it

somewhat cathartic just to express it to people who are in the position to

understand. I do talk to my friends about it, but they don't have any first

hand experience with Borderline Land - thank goodness for them - so

somethings are hard to get across.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Just so you are aware, your full first and last name still appear when you post.

So you are not anonymous at the Group site message board, where I read member

posts.

Perhaps your full name does not appear if you receive Group posts as e-mail, but

it does appear at the Group site message board.

If you want to be anonymous, I suggest that you need to create an e-mail account

without using your real name in it, anywhere, and then re-join the Group.

-Annie

>

> Hi Svaktshka,

>

> I'm now emailing from my new " anonomyized " account.

>

> Yes, I've apologized. I've tried to open up the lines of communication on

> this topic many times. I've not only given her permission, but I've

> suggested that it would be good for us both in the longer term if she told

> me anything she wants me to acknowledge or apologize for from the past, even

> though it might be hard for me to hear in the short term. However, one of

> her many rules is that we are not supposed to talk about the past, so she

> doesn't/hasn't taken me up on my offer.

>

> When we were younger what I feel bad about is that I was competitive with

> her. Mostly normal sibling stuff, but people in our father's side of the

> family were bizarrely competitive, so I think I was learning some of it from

> watching people around me. I always wanted to beat her at things, like card

> games and races and so on. The thing is it was easy because she was younger

> than me. I feel like an idiot about it now. I also wanted her to do things

> for me, like to go to the corner store and get something that I wanted. I

> would talk her into it by bribing her and buying her something, but I knew

> she didn't really want to do it. I was pushy with her to get my way and I

> guess you could say that I bossed her around. I feel like an idiot about

> that too. Later in our childhoods, I was just insensitive to her needs and

> feelings by ignoring her. She was really, really withdrawn, so it wasn't

> hard to do. When I found a way to get away from our nada by being out of

> the house by hanging out with friends and then boyfriends I threw myself

> into my social life and did not look back. I can only imagine she felt

> forsaken. It was not intentional, but I sure feel bad that I didn't care

> about her more at that time by tuning into her world. I was pretty

> self-involved.

>

> It is funny because as a parent myself now, I am very quick to not let my

> older daughter do that sort of thing to my younger daughter. I think on

> some level I am very sensitive to it because I am trying to make up for the

> past with my sister. When I see my kids being generous and loving with each

> other rather than competitive and selfish, it is one of the few things that

> makes up for the sadness and grief I have about my sister and our

> relationship.

>

> I think that part of what is going on for my sister and I now is that she

> never had a chance to rebel against my parents in the normal developmental

> sense of separating and individuating. For one thing, they were not normal

> parents. Our parents were divorced and our fada (NPD) had already absented

> himself from our lives. Our nada (BPD) was no picnic to separate from.

> When I was going through it, she raged at me and disowned me and then went

> on a character assassination campaign to discredit me with pretty much

> anyone who would listen including my sister. Having witnessed all of this

> first hand, I think my sister decided it was not safe to separate. And it

> wasn't. She was pretty much brainwashed by my nada into thinking I was bad

> and that her job was to take care of nada's needs and especially since I was

> so awful and not doing so myself anymore as I once had. The reason I am

> explaining all of this is that I suspect that part of what is going on now

> is that my sister is separating. I was probably the closest thing to a

> parent that she did have. There were definitely times when I was protective

> and supportive of her in ways that a parent should be. Of course, as a

> child myself, I was mighty inconsistent and sometimes misguided.

>

> Even though I can understand it in this way, it still hurts and the way she

> is going about it is especially hurtful. She has (or had at least)

> convinced herself the I have BPD and that she has to keep herself safe from

> me. She has never said that to me directly, but it has been obvious by the

> way she was treating me and things she was saying. We've both read the same

> books and she follows the suggestions in them like a script and has adopted

> much of their language.

>

> I can understand how I remind her of nada in some ways (including even

> physically, but also in terms of temperament as I am quite a passionate and

> emotional person), but she treats me like I am nada. It is really weird and

> creepy. It is like she can not or will not see me as me. It feel as though

> she has an actual aversion to me. I think I just must remind her too much

> of a painful past that she wants to forget, so she has to shut me out. The

> last times that I have been around her and when she has corresponded with me

> by email, she has been really stiff and formal with me, verging on cold and

> business-like. Saccharin and polite on the surface, but angry indirectly

> underneath. It has been really unpleasant. I've asked her about it, but

> she just says she is not willing to discuss it.

>

> Another part of the history is that I had been saying for years and years

> and years that nada was mentally ill and that it was BPB. My sister did not

> want to hear it at the time. That was when she started making rules about

> topics of conversation that were permissible and not. She didn't want to

> know about BPD and she didn't want to talk about nada with me. More

> recently, since nada cut my sister off a couple of years ago, my sister

> started learning about BPD. Now she fancies herself an expert on the

> subject.

>

> With me, she is just closed. It sucks and is very painful. She does not

> want to be known in an intimate way (certainly by me, but I suspect by

> anyone), and she does not want to know me as me or in an intimate way. She

> would be happy to talk about our kids and pretend to be cheerful, but I am

> really bad at faking it in this way when there is so much unsaid lurking

> under the surface. I've said all of this to her, but she chooses to ignore

> it.

>

> The good news is that I have a really wonderful set of friends and partner

> (my family of choice), so I'm not lonely overall. I just wish she and I

> could share more with each other.

>

> I am really glad that you and your sister found a way to be close and

> supportive of each other. And I really appreciate talking to you about this

> stuff. It's way better than having it only in my head and I'm finding it

> somewhat cathartic just to express it to people who are in the position to

> understand. I do talk to my friends about it, but they don't have any first

> hand experience with Borderline Land - thank goodness for them - so

> somethings are hard to get across.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Darn it.  Thank you for telling me.  Just goes to show you, it is really hard

not to be yourself - even when you try not to be!

I'll figure this out today one way or another.

Cheers,

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 8:32:28 AM

Subject: Re: repairing relationships amongst non BP siblings

damaged by a BP mother

 

Hi ,

Just so you are aware, your full first and last name still appear when you post.

So you are not anonymous at the Group site message board, where I read member

posts.

Perhaps your full name does not appear if you receive Group posts as e-mail, but

it does appear at the Group site message board.

If you want to be anonymous, I suggest that you need to create an e-mail account

without using your real name in it, anywhere, and then re-join the Group.

-Annie

>

> Hi Svaktshka,

>

> I'm now emailing from my new " anonomyized " account.

>

> Yes, I've apologized. I've tried to open up the lines of communication on

> this topic many times. I've not only given her permission, but I've

> suggested that it would be good for us both in the longer term if she told

> me anything she wants me to acknowledge or apologize for from the past, even

> though it might be hard for me to hear in the short term. However, one of

> her many rules is that we are not supposed to talk about the past, so she

> doesn't/hasn't taken me up on my offer.

>

> When we were younger what I feel bad about is that I was competitive with

> her. Mostly normal sibling stuff, but people in our father's side of the

> family were bizarrely competitive, so I think I was learning some of it from

> watching people around me. I always wanted to beat her at things, like card

> games and races and so on. The thing is it was easy because she was younger

> than me. I feel like an idiot about it now. I also wanted her to do things

> for me, like to go to the corner store and get something that I wanted. I

> would talk her into it by bribing her and buying her something, but I knew

> she didn't really want to do it. I was pushy with her to get my way and I

> guess you could say that I bossed her around. I feel like an idiot about

> that too. Later in our childhoods, I was just insensitive to her needs and

> feelings by ignoring her. She was really, really withdrawn, so it wasn't

> hard to do. When I found a way to get away from our nada by being out of

> the house by hanging out with friends and then boyfriends I threw myself

> into my social life and did not look back. I can only imagine she felt

> forsaken. It was not intentional, but I sure feel bad that I didn't care

> about her more at that time by tuning into her world. I was pretty

> self-involved.

>

> It is funny because as a parent myself now, I am very quick to not let my

> older daughter do that sort of thing to my younger daughter. I think on

> some level I am very sensitive to it because I am trying to make up for the

> past with my sister. When I see my kids being generous and loving with each

> other rather than competitive and selfish, it is one of the few things that

> makes up for the sadness and grief I have about my sister and our

> relationship.

>

> I think that part of what is going on for my sister and I now is that she

> never had a chance to rebel against my parents in the normal developmental

> sense of separating and individuating. For one thing, they were not normal

> parents. Our parents were divorced and our fada (NPD) had already absented

> himself from our lives. Our nada (BPD) was no picnic to separate from.

> When I was going through it, she raged at me and disowned me and then went

> on a character assassination campaign to discredit me with pretty much

> anyone who would listen including my sister. Having witnessed all of this

> first hand, I think my sister decided it was not safe to separate. And it

> wasn't. She was pretty much brainwashed by my nada into thinking I was bad

> and that her job was to take care of nada's needs and especially since I was

> so awful and not doing so myself anymore as I once had. The reason I am

> explaining all of this is that I suspect that part of what is going on now

> is that my sister is separating. I was probably the closest thing to a

> parent that she did have. There were definitely times when I was protective

> and supportive of her in ways that a parent should be. Of course, as a

> child myself, I was mighty inconsistent and sometimes misguided.

>

> Even though I can understand it in this way, it still hurts and the way she

> is going about it is especially hurtful. She has (or had at least)

> convinced herself the I have BPD and that she has to keep herself safe from

> me. She has never said that to me directly, but it has been obvious by the

> way she was treating me and things she was saying. We've both read the same

> books and she follows the suggestions in them like a script and has adopted

> much of their language.

>

> I can understand how I remind her of nada in some ways (including even

> physically, but also in terms of temperament as I am quite a passionate and

> emotional person), but she treats me like I am nada. It is really weird and

> creepy. It is like she can not or will not see me as me. It feel as though

> she has an actual aversion to me. I think I just must remind her too much

> of a painful past that she wants to forget, so she has to shut me out. The

> last times that I have been around her and when she has corresponded with me

> by email, she has been really stiff and formal with me, verging on cold and

> business-like. Saccharin and polite on the surface, but angry indirectly

> underneath. It has been really unpleasant. I've asked her about it, but

> she just says she is not willing to discuss it.

>

> Another part of the history is that I had been saying for years and years

> and years that nada was mentally ill and that it was BPB. My sister did not

> want to hear it at the time. That was when she started making rules about

> topics of conversation that were permissible and not. She didn't want to

> know about BPD and she didn't want to talk about nada with me. More

> recently, since nada cut my sister off a couple of years ago, my sister

> started learning about BPD. Now she fancies herself an expert on the

> subject.

>

> With me, she is just closed. It sucks and is very painful. She does not

> want to be known in an intimate way (certainly by me, but I suspect by

> anyone), and she does not want to know me as me or in an intimate way. She

> would be happy to talk about our kids and pretend to be cheerful, but I am

> really bad at faking it in this way when there is so much unsaid lurking

> under the surface. I've said all of this to her, but she chooses to ignore

> it.

>

> The good news is that I have a really wonderful set of friends and partner

> (my family of choice), so I'm not lonely overall. I just wish she and I

> could share more with each other.

>

> I am really glad that you and your sister found a way to be close and

> supportive of each other. And I really appreciate talking to you about this

> stuff. It's way better than having it only in my head and I'm finding it

> somewhat cathartic just to express it to people who are in the position to

> understand. I do talk to my friends about it, but they don't have any first

> hand experience with Borderline Land - thank goodness for them - so

> somethings are hard to get across.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It sounds like you've done all you can to make amends. Your sister seems to have

made clear where her boundaries are. From what you wrote, it doesn't sound like

she is necessarily dictating all the rules for the relationship; she just has

different needs and boundaries than you do about what she is comfortable

discussing. I can see how that would be difficult. I can also see how she might

find your resemblance to your parent triggering, even though the abuse wasn't

your fault. I imagine that must hurt you, maybe makes you feel blamed unfairly.

I resemble my mother a lot, and sometimes when I hear my voice on a recording or

see pictures of myself from my fat days (she is morbidly obese), it is

triggering. I'd rather not think about it. Anyway, I'm sorry your sister is not

able to see you as a separate person, and it sounds healthy that you can

understand why she has trouble trusting you, even if you've done nothing wrong.

Anyway, hope you're able to figure out the aliases thing. You might double-check

all the drop down boxes on the " Edit Membership " part of this board, or set your

new anonymous email to Primary on the Yahoo! My Account page, and see if that

helps.

Sva

>

> Hi Svaktshka,

>

> I'm now emailing from my new " anonomyized " account.

>

> Yes, I've apologized. I've tried to open up the lines of communication on

> this topic many times. I've not only given her permission, but I've

> suggested that it would be good for us both in the longer term if she told

> me anything she wants me to acknowledge or apologize for from the past, even

> though it might be hard for me to hear in the short term. However, one of

> her many rules is that we are not supposed to talk about the past, so she

> doesn't/hasn't taken me up on my offer.

>

> When we were younger what I feel bad about is that I was competitive with

> her. Mostly normal sibling stuff, but people in our father's side of the

> family were bizarrely competitive, so I think I was learning some of it from

> watching people around me. I always wanted to beat her at things, like card

> games and races and so on. The thing is it was easy because she was younger

> than me. I feel like an idiot about it now. I also wanted her to do things

> for me, like to go to the corner store and get something that I wanted. I

> would talk her into it by bribing her and buying her something, but I knew

> she didn't really want to do it. I was pushy with her to get my way and I

> guess you could say that I bossed her around. I feel like an idiot about

> that too. Later in our childhoods, I was just insensitive to her needs and

> feelings by ignoring her. She was really, really withdrawn, so it wasn't

> hard to do. When I found a way to get away from our nada by being out of

> the house by hanging out with friends and then boyfriends I threw myself

> into my social life and did not look back. I can only imagine she felt

> forsaken. It was not intentional, but I sure feel bad that I didn't care

> about her more at that time by tuning into her world. I was pretty

> self-involved.

>

> It is funny because as a parent myself now, I am very quick to not let my

> older daughter do that sort of thing to my younger daughter. I think on

> some level I am very sensitive to it because I am trying to make up for the

> past with my sister. When I see my kids being generous and loving with each

> other rather than competitive and selfish, it is one of the few things that

> makes up for the sadness and grief I have about my sister and our

> relationship.

>

> I think that part of what is going on for my sister and I now is that she

> never had a chance to rebel against my parents in the normal developmental

> sense of separating and individuating. For one thing, they were not normal

> parents. Our parents were divorced and our fada (NPD) had already absented

> himself from our lives. Our nada (BPD) was no picnic to separate from.

> When I was going through it, she raged at me and disowned me and then went

> on a character assassination campaign to discredit me with pretty much

> anyone who would listen including my sister. Having witnessed all of this

> first hand, I think my sister decided it was not safe to separate. And it

> wasn't. She was pretty much brainwashed by my nada into thinking I was bad

> and that her job was to take care of nada's needs and especially since I was

> so awful and not doing so myself anymore as I once had. The reason I am

> explaining all of this is that I suspect that part of what is going on now

> is that my sister is separating. I was probably the closest thing to a

> parent that she did have. There were definitely times when I was protective

> and supportive of her in ways that a parent should be. Of course, as a

> child myself, I was mighty inconsistent and sometimes misguided.

>

> Even though I can understand it in this way, it still hurts and the way she

> is going about it is especially hurtful. She has (or had at least)

> convinced herself the I have BPD and that she has to keep herself safe from

> me. She has never said that to me directly, but it has been obvious by the

> way she was treating me and things she was saying. We've both read the same

> books and she follows the suggestions in them like a script and has adopted

> much of their language.

>

> I can understand how I remind her of nada in some ways (including even

> physically, but also in terms of temperament as I am quite a passionate and

> emotional person), but she treats me like I am nada. It is really weird and

> creepy. It is like she can not or will not see me as me. It feel as though

> she has an actual aversion to me. I think I just must remind her too much

> of a painful past that she wants to forget, so she has to shut me out. The

> last times that I have been around her and when she has corresponded with me

> by email, she has been really stiff and formal with me, verging on cold and

> business-like. Saccharin and polite on the surface, but angry indirectly

> underneath. It has been really unpleasant. I've asked her about it, but

> she just says she is not willing to discuss it.

>

> Another part of the history is that I had been saying for years and years

> and years that nada was mentally ill and that it was BPB. My sister did not

> want to hear it at the time. That was when she started making rules about

> topics of conversation that were permissible and not. She didn't want to

> know about BPD and she didn't want to talk about nada with me. More

> recently, since nada cut my sister off a couple of years ago, my sister

> started learning about BPD. Now she fancies herself an expert on the

> subject.

>

> With me, she is just closed. It sucks and is very painful. She does not

> want to be known in an intimate way (certainly by me, but I suspect by

> anyone), and she does not want to know me as me or in an intimate way. She

> would be happy to talk about our kids and pretend to be cheerful, but I am

> really bad at faking it in this way when there is so much unsaid lurking

> under the surface. I've said all of this to her, but she chooses to ignore

> it.

>

> The good news is that I have a really wonderful set of friends and partner

> (my family of choice), so I'm not lonely overall. I just wish she and I

> could share more with each other.

>

> I am really glad that you and your sister found a way to be close and

> supportive of each other. And I really appreciate talking to you about this

> stuff. It's way better than having it only in my head and I'm finding it

> somewhat cathartic just to express it to people who are in the position to

> understand. I do talk to my friends about it, but they don't have any first

> hand experience with Borderline Land - thank goodness for them - so

> somethings are hard to get across.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well....that is just the beginning of the off limit topics.  Also off limits

are the topics of her mental health, her marriage, our relationship (for the

most part) and my relationship with my partner.  I don't really know what that

one is about.  It is also pretty apparent that she does not want to be alone

with me though she is willing to have me (though not my partner) join her

family.   At some point boundaries become an unbearable straightjacket. 

So while, yes, one could look at it as though this is her making her boundaries

clear, I feel like I am backed into this tiny, little corner wherein I don't

actually get to be myself.  It is suffocating in there.  It makes me want to

break out.  I just don't think this is normal or fair to me.  Or am I just

being selfish and disrespectful?  This does confuse me.

In fact it reminds me of how when we were growing up there was sooooooo much

denial and sooooooo many hot topics because of nada -- the old elephant in the

room phenomena.  For example, I wasn't allowed to talk about my fada or my

fada's family, but my mada did incessantly.  It was crazy making.  We had to

" walk on eggshells " and try to divert attention to safe subjects all the time. 

And, trust me, there weren't very many safe subjects at all.  And how my sister

is now is crazy making for me in much the same way. 

Do I sound frustrated and angry?  I am.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 10:55:19 AM

Subject: Re: repairing relationships amongst non BP siblings

damaged by a BP mother

 

It sounds like you've done all you can to make amends. Your sister seems to have

made clear where her boundaries are. From what you wrote, it doesn't sound like

she is necessarily dictating all the rules for the relationship; she just has

different needs and boundaries than you do about what she is comfortable

discussing. I can see how that would be difficult. I can also see how she might

find your resemblance to your parent triggering, even though the abuse wasn't

your fault. I imagine that must hurt you, maybe makes you feel blamed unfairly.

I resemble my mother a lot, and sometimes when I hear my voice on a recording or

see pictures of myself from my fat days (she is morbidly obese), it is

triggering. I'd rather not think about it. Anyway, I'm sorry your sister is not

able to see you as a separate person, and it sounds healthy that you can

understand why she has trouble trusting you, even if you've done nothing wrong.

Anyway, hope you're able to figure out the aliases thing. You might double-check

all the drop down boxes on the " Edit Membership " part of this board, or set your

new anonymous email to Primary on the Yahoo! My Account page, and see if that

helps.

Sva

>

> Hi Svaktshka,

>

> I'm now emailing from my new " anonomyized " account.

>

> Yes, I've apologized. I've tried to open up the lines of communication on

> this topic many times. I've not only given her permission, but I've

> suggested that it would be good for us both in the longer term if she told

> me anything she wants me to acknowledge or apologize for from the past, even

> though it might be hard for me to hear in the short term. However, one of

> her many rules is that we are not supposed to talk about the past, so she

> doesn't/hasn't taken me up on my offer.

>

> When we were younger what I feel bad about is that I was competitive with

> her. Mostly normal sibling stuff, but people in our father's side of the

> family were bizarrely competitive, so I think I was learning some of it from

> watching people around me. I always wanted to beat her at things, like card

> games and races and so on. The thing is it was easy because she was younger

> than me. I feel like an idiot about it now. I also wanted her to do things

> for me, like to go to the corner store and get something that I wanted. I

> would talk her into it by bribing her and buying her something, but I knew

> she didn't really want to do it. I was pushy with her to get my way and I

> guess you could say that I bossed her around. I feel like an idiot about

> that too. Later in our childhoods, I was just insensitive to her needs and

> feelings by ignoring her. She was really, really withdrawn, so it wasn't

> hard to do. When I found a way to get away from our nada by being out of

> the house by hanging out with friends and then boyfriends I threw myself

> into my social life and did not look back. I can only imagine she felt

> forsaken. It was not intentional, but I sure feel bad that I didn't care

> about her more at that time by tuning into her world. I was pretty

> self-involved.

>

> It is funny because as a parent myself now, I am very quick to not let my

> older daughter do that sort of thing to my younger daughter. I think on

> some level I am very sensitive to it because I am trying to make up for the

> past with my sister. When I see my kids being generous and loving with each

> other rather than competitive and selfish, it is one of the few things that

> makes up for the sadness and grief I have about my sister and our

> relationship.

>

> I think that part of what is going on for my sister and I now is that she

> never had a chance to rebel against my parents in the normal developmental

> sense of separating and individuating. For one thing, they were not normal

> parents. Our parents were divorced and our fada (NPD) had already absented

> himself from our lives. Our nada (BPD) was no picnic to separate from.

> When I was going through it, she raged at me and disowned me and then went

> on a character assassination campaign to discredit me with pretty much

> anyone who would listen including my sister. Having witnessed all of this

> first hand, I think my sister decided it was not safe to separate. And it

> wasn't. She was pretty much brainwashed by my nada into thinking I was bad

> and that her job was to take care of nada's needs and especially since I was

> so awful and not doing so myself anymore as I once had. The reason I am

> explaining all of this is that I suspect that part of what is going on now

> is that my sister is separating. I was probably the closest thing to a

> parent that she did have. There were definitely times when I was protective

> and supportive of her in ways that a parent should be. Of course, as a

> child myself, I was mighty inconsistent and sometimes misguided.

>

> Even though I can understand it in this way, it still hurts and the way she

> is going about it is especially hurtful. She has (or had at least)

> convinced herself the I have BPD and that she has to keep herself safe from

> me. She has never said that to me directly, but it has been obvious by the

> way she was treating me and things she was saying. We've both read the same

> books and she follows the suggestions in them like a script and has adopted

> much of their language.

>

> I can understand how I remind her of nada in some ways (including even

> physically, but also in terms of temperament as I am quite a passionate and

> emotional person), but she treats me like I am nada. It is really weird and

> creepy. It is like she can not or will not see me as me. It feel as though

> she has an actual aversion to me. I think I just must remind her too much

> of a painful past that she wants to forget, so she has to shut me out. The

> last times that I have been around her and when she has corresponded with me

> by email, she has been really stiff and formal with me, verging on cold and

> business-like. Saccharin and polite on the surface, but angry indirectly

> underneath. It has been really unpleasant. I've asked her about it, but

> she just says she is not willing to discuss it.

>

> Another part of the history is that I had been saying for years and years

> and years that nada was mentally ill and that it was BPB. My sister did not

> want to hear it at the time. That was when she started making rules about

> topics of conversation that were permissible and not. She didn't want to

> know about BPD and she didn't want to talk about nada with me. More

> recently, since nada cut my sister off a couple of years ago, my sister

> started learning about BPD. Now she fancies herself an expert on the

> subject.

>

> With me, she is just closed. It sucks and is very painful. She does not

> want to be known in an intimate way (certainly by me, but I suspect by

> anyone), and she does not want to know me as me or in an intimate way. She

> would be happy to talk about our kids and pretend to be cheerful, but I am

> really bad at faking it in this way when there is so much unsaid lurking

> under the surface. I've said all of this to her, but she chooses to ignore

> it.

>

> The good news is that I have a really wonderful set of friends and partner

> (my family of choice), so I'm not lonely overall. I just wish she and I

> could share more with each other.

>

> I am really glad that you and your sister found a way to be close and

> supportive of each other. And I really appreciate talking to you about this

> stuff. It's way better than having it only in my head and I'm finding it

> somewhat cathartic just to express it to people who are in the position to

> understand. I do talk to my friends about it, but they don't have any first

> hand experience with Borderline Land - thank goodness for them - so

> somethings are hard to get across.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

.....one more thing.  I'm not supposed get angry.  (Well, actually, no one in

our family is.  Everyone else just does it indirectly.)  I dare to be direct

about it.  I just say what I think and feel.  It's anything but out of control

or akin to a borderline rage in my opinion, but it is honest and passionate

sometimes in a way that is really foreign to my sister and seemingly

unwelcome.  I happen to believe that anger is healthy and expressing it

directly can be a really good thing in certain circumstances.  And, on the flip

side, I'm also quite happy to be vulnerable and weak and to talk about my

struggles, but she can't handle that either it seems.  So basically I just

don't get to " be " .  I'm finding it really ironic that I'm having such trouble

not being me on this message board.  Life is funny.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 10:55:19 AM

Subject: Re: repairing relationships amongst non BP siblings

damaged by a BP mother

 

It sounds like you've done all you can to make amends. Your sister seems to have

made clear where her boundaries are. From what you wrote, it doesn't sound like

she is necessarily dictating all the rules for the relationship; she just has

different needs and boundaries than you do about what she is comfortable

discussing. I can see how that would be difficult. I can also see how she might

find your resemblance to your parent triggering, even though the abuse wasn't

your fault. I imagine that must hurt you, maybe makes you feel blamed unfairly.

I resemble my mother a lot, and sometimes when I hear my voice on a recording or

see pictures of myself from my fat days (she is morbidly obese), it is

triggering. I'd rather not think about it. Anyway, I'm sorry your sister is not

able to see you as a separate person, and it sounds healthy that you can

understand why she has trouble trusting you, even if you've done nothing wrong.

Anyway, hope you're able to figure out the aliases thing. You might double-check

all the drop down boxes on the " Edit Membership " part of this board, or set your

new anonymous email to Primary on the Yahoo! My Account page, and see if that

helps.

Sva

>

> Hi Svaktshka,

>

> I'm now emailing from my new " anonomyized " account.

>

> Yes, I've apologized. I've tried to open up the lines of communication on

> this topic many times. I've not only given her permission, but I've

> suggested that it would be good for us both in the longer term if she told

> me anything she wants me to acknowledge or apologize for from the past, even

> though it might be hard for me to hear in the short term. However, one of

> her many rules is that we are not supposed to talk about the past, so she

> doesn't/hasn't taken me up on my offer.

>

> When we were younger what I feel bad about is that I was competitive with

> her. Mostly normal sibling stuff, but people in our father's side of the

> family were bizarrely competitive, so I think I was learning some of it from

> watching people around me. I always wanted to beat her at things, like card

> games and races and so on. The thing is it was easy because she was younger

> than me. I feel like an idiot about it now. I also wanted her to do things

> for me, like to go to the corner store and get something that I wanted. I

> would talk her into it by bribing her and buying her something, but I knew

> she didn't really want to do it. I was pushy with her to get my way and I

> guess you could say that I bossed her around. I feel like an idiot about

> that too. Later in our childhoods, I was just insensitive to her needs and

> feelings by ignoring her. She was really, really withdrawn, so it wasn't

> hard to do. When I found a way to get away from our nada by being out of

> the house by hanging out with friends and then boyfriends I threw myself

> into my social life and did not look back. I can only imagine she felt

> forsaken. It was not intentional, but I sure feel bad that I didn't care

> about her more at that time by tuning into her world. I was pretty

> self-involved.

>

> It is funny because as a parent myself now, I am very quick to not let my

> older daughter do that sort of thing to my younger daughter. I think on

> some level I am very sensitive to it because I am trying to make up for the

> past with my sister. When I see my kids being generous and loving with each

> other rather than competitive and selfish, it is one of the few things that

> makes up for the sadness and grief I have about my sister and our

> relationship.

>

> I think that part of what is going on for my sister and I now is that she

> never had a chance to rebel against my parents in the normal developmental

> sense of separating and individuating. For one thing, they were not normal

> parents. Our parents were divorced and our fada (NPD) had already absented

> himself from our lives. Our nada (BPD) was no picnic to separate from.

> When I was going through it, she raged at me and disowned me and then went

> on a character assassination campaign to discredit me with pretty much

> anyone who would listen including my sister. Having witnessed all of this

> first hand, I think my sister decided it was not safe to separate. And it

> wasn't. She was pretty much brainwashed by my nada into thinking I was bad

> and that her job was to take care of nada's needs and especially since I was

> so awful and not doing so myself anymore as I once had. The reason I am

> explaining all of this is that I suspect that part of what is going on now

> is that my sister is separating. I was probably the closest thing to a

> parent that she did have. There were definitely times when I was protective

> and supportive of her in ways that a parent should be. Of course, as a

> child myself, I was mighty inconsistent and sometimes misguided.

>

> Even though I can understand it in this way, it still hurts and the way she

> is going about it is especially hurtful. She has (or had at least)

> convinced herself the I have BPD and that she has to keep herself safe from

> me. She has never said that to me directly, but it has been obvious by the

> way she was treating me and things she was saying. We've both read the same

> books and she follows the suggestions in them like a script and has adopted

> much of their language.

>

> I can understand how I remind her of nada in some ways (including even

> physically, but also in terms of temperament as I am quite a passionate and

> emotional person), but she treats me like I am nada. It is really weird and

> creepy. It is like she can not or will not see me as me. It feel as though

> she has an actual aversion to me. I think I just must remind her too much

> of a painful past that she wants to forget, so she has to shut me out. The

> last times that I have been around her and when she has corresponded with me

> by email, she has been really stiff and formal with me, verging on cold and

> business-like. Saccharin and polite on the surface, but angry indirectly

> underneath. It has been really unpleasant. I've asked her about it, but

> she just says she is not willing to discuss it.

>

> Another part of the history is that I had been saying for years and years

> and years that nada was mentally ill and that it was BPB. My sister did not

> want to hear it at the time. That was when she started making rules about

> topics of conversation that were permissible and not. She didn't want to

> know about BPD and she didn't want to talk about nada with me. More

> recently, since nada cut my sister off a couple of years ago, my sister

> started learning about BPD. Now she fancies herself an expert on the

> subject.

>

> With me, she is just closed. It sucks and is very painful. She does not

> want to be known in an intimate way (certainly by me, but I suspect by

> anyone), and she does not want to know me as me or in an intimate way. She

> would be happy to talk about our kids and pretend to be cheerful, but I am

> really bad at faking it in this way when there is so much unsaid lurking

> under the surface. I've said all of this to her, but she chooses to ignore

> it.

>

> The good news is that I have a really wonderful set of friends and partner

> (my family of choice), so I'm not lonely overall. I just wish she and I

> could share more with each other.

>

> I am really glad that you and your sister found a way to be close and

> supportive of each other. And I really appreciate talking to you about this

> stuff. It's way better than having it only in my head and I'm finding it

> somewhat cathartic just to express it to people who are in the position to

> understand. I do talk to my friends about it, but they don't have any first

> hand experience with Borderline Land - thank goodness for them - so

> somethings are hard to get across.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you for sharing your story. I could have been your younger sister. I

actually got chills reading your story. My older sister was a lot towards me as

you describe yourself being towards your younger sister. Our nada was hardest on

her and she withdrew from our family into her own world to survive and I was

left alone, although we have a younger sibling as well. My sister would boss me

around and laugh at me and always had to be faster, stronger and better at

things. It was very difficult because I looked up to her and trusted her for a

long time. Eventually, after feeling laughed at and pushed around (I often

withdrew too, but was naturally optomistic) and not taken seriously, or

considered by her for years, I began to look up to her less and eventually lost

trust in her or respect for her. She chose her friends and boyfriends over me

every time and expected me to cover for her when she lied to our parents, etc. I

eventually felt so sad and used and bad about it all that I asked her to stop

telling me things I had to keep secret. She thought I was a dork and not cool

enough and told everyone I was a tattle tale. I actually wasn't, but wanted to

sometimes. It hurt that she didn't even notice me enough to know I wasn't

telling on her, but probably should have. I really knew I couldn't have a close

relationship with her, when at age 19, ONe time I really needed someone to talk

to and called her to come see me an hour away at college. I promised to give her

gas money and practically begged her to come. She said she couldn't come and

gave no reason and Iknew she had a party going on at her and her boyfriends

apartment. I was crushed and something in me about her permenantly changed that

day. I knew I couldn't rely on her. I am not one who tends to hold grudges, but

being adandoned for years by a sibling does effect a person. We all have to feel

safe and take care of ourselves and anyone who violates our trust and well being

and feeling safe we keep at arms length.

My sister and i are now in our fifties and our relationship is better. We see on

another about once a year and talk on the phone about once a month- very much

about daily things, keep it on the surface. She likes her space and lives alone,

far away, and I like my space and am busy with my family. We don't talk about

nada or BPD at all , I don't even think she knows what it is. I have finally

pulled away from nada and she now lives within a few miles of nada and they are

close. Things are like opposite of when we were young. We have a shared history

and can laugh and love each other, but I think now can respect one another for

our differences, but don't need to be close or even really understand one

another. I love her and always will and now see that she did what she had to do

to survive when we were young and so did I. We are like survivors of war of

sorts and have shared memories but never really get deep into it as it is too

painful. Somethings don't need to be rehased and are better left alone. She has

apoligized in general for being a jerk to me throughout the years and instead of

telling her it was okay I actually let her say what she had to say and thanked

her for her apology. We are different people now and have moved on.

True

>

> Hi Svaktshka,

>

> I'm now emailing from my new " anonomyized " account.

>

> Yes, I've apologized. I've tried to open up the lines of communication on

> this topic many times. I've not only given her permission, but I've

> suggested that it would be good for us both in the longer term if she told

> me anything she wants me to acknowledge or apologize for from the past, even

> though it might be hard for me to hear in the short term. However, one of

> her many rules is that we are not supposed to talk about the past, so she

> doesn't/hasn't taken me up on my offer.

>

> When we were younger what I feel bad about is that I was competitive with

> her. Mostly normal sibling stuff, but people in our father's side of the

> family were bizarrely competitive, so I think I was learning some of it from

> watching people around me. I always wanted to beat her at things, like card

> games and races and so on. The thing is it was easy because she was younger

> than me. I feel like an idiot about it now. I also wanted her to do things

> for me, like to go to the corner store and get something that I wanted. I

> would talk her into it by bribing her and buying her something, but I knew

> she didn't really want to do it. I was pushy with her to get my way and I

> guess you could say that I bossed her around. I feel like an idiot about

> that too. Later in our childhoods, I was just insensitive to her needs and

> feelings by ignoring her. She was really, really withdrawn, so it wasn't

> hard to do. When I found a way to get away from our nada by being out of

> the house by hanging out with friends and then boyfriends I threw myself

> into my social life and did not look back. I can only imagine she felt

> forsaken. It was not intentional, but I sure feel bad that I didn't care

> about her more at that time by tuning into her world. I was pretty

> self-involved.

>

> It is funny because as a parent myself now, I am very quick to not let my

> older daughter do that sort of thing to my younger daughter. I think on

> some level I am very sensitive to it because I am trying to make up for the

> past with my sister. When I see my kids being generous and loving with each

> other rather than competitive and selfish, it is one of the few things that

> makes up for the sadness and grief I have about my sister and our

> relationship.

>

> I think that part of what is going on for my sister and I now is that she

> never had a chance to rebel against my parents in the normal developmental

> sense of separating and individuating. For one thing, they were not normal

> parents. Our parents were divorced and our fada (NPD) had already absented

> himself from our lives. Our nada (BPD) was no picnic to separate from.

> When I was going through it, she raged at me and disowned me and then went

> on a character assassination campaign to discredit me with pretty much

> anyone who would listen including my sister. Having witnessed all of this

> first hand, I think my sister decided it was not safe to separate. And it

> wasn't. She was pretty much brainwashed by my nada into thinking I was bad

> and that her job was to take care of nada's needs and especially since I was

> so awful and not doing so myself anymore as I once had. The reason I am

> explaining all of this is that I suspect that part of what is going on now

> is that my sister is separating. I was probably the closest thing to a

> parent that she did have. There were definitely times when I was protective

> and supportive of her in ways that a parent should be. Of course, as a

> child myself, I was mighty inconsistent and sometimes misguided.

>

> Even though I can understand it in this way, it still hurts and the way she

> is going about it is especially hurtful. She has (or had at least)

> convinced herself the I have BPD and that she has to keep herself safe from

> me. She has never said that to me directly, but it has been obvious by the

> way she was treating me and things she was saying. We've both read the same

> books and she follows the suggestions in them like a script and has adopted

> much of their language.

>

> I can understand how I remind her of nada in some ways (including even

> physically, but also in terms of temperament as I am quite a passionate and

> emotional person), but she treats me like I am nada. It is really weird and

> creepy. It is like she can not or will not see me as me. It feel as though

> she has an actual aversion to me. I think I just must remind her too much

> of a painful past that she wants to forget, so she has to shut me out. The

> last times that I have been around her and when she has corresponded with me

> by email, she has been really stiff and formal with me, verging on cold and

> business-like. Saccharin and polite on the surface, but angry indirectly

> underneath. It has been really unpleasant. I've asked her about it, but

> she just says she is not willing to discuss it.

>

> Another part of the history is that I had been saying for years and years

> and years that nada was mentally ill and that it was BPB. My sister did not

> want to hear it at the time. That was when she started making rules about

> topics of conversation that were permissible and not. She didn't want to

> know about BPD and she didn't want to talk about nada with me. More

> recently, since nada cut my sister off a couple of years ago, my sister

> started learning about BPD. Now she fancies herself an expert on the

> subject.

>

> With me, she is just closed. It sucks and is very painful. She does not

> want to be known in an intimate way (certainly by me, but I suspect by

> anyone), and she does not want to know me as me or in an intimate way. She

> would be happy to talk about our kids and pretend to be cheerful, but I am

> really bad at faking it in this way when there is so much unsaid lurking

> under the surface. I've said all of this to her, but she chooses to ignore

> it.

>

> The good news is that I have a really wonderful set of friends and partner

> (my family of choice), so I'm not lonely overall. I just wish she and I

> could share more with each other.

>

> I am really glad that you and your sister found a way to be close and

> supportive of each other. And I really appreciate talking to you about this

> stuff. It's way better than having it only in my head and I'm finding it

> somewhat cathartic just to express it to people who are in the position to

> understand. I do talk to my friends about it, but they don't have any first

> hand experience with Borderline Land - thank goodness for them - so

> somethings are hard to get across.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

And thank you for sharing your story with me. I'm glad you have found some

equanimity with your sister. I know precisely what you mean about being

survivors of war in a way. In fact just last night I was watching a program

on veterans of the Iraq war and PTSD. My sister and I have both suffered

from PTSD.

I'm glad you let your sister's apology really sink in and didn't feel

compelled to spare her from her feelings. I think moments like that can be

really reparative. I hope I have an opportunity like that with my sister

one day where I get to look her right in the eye. I feel a lot of remorse

and sorrow. I have to a large extent forgiven myself after years and years

and years of life and being in therapy and coming to understand the whole

thing in the context of the bigger picture. At that time I was a misguided

kid, cum young adult, learning from those around me, with much to overcome.

It was only later that I came to understand how things like development, and

loyalty and love are supposed to work.

Thank you again, , and I hope you stay in touch. Maybe we can be

mutually supportive and understanding, being on opposite sides of this

sister dynamic as we are.

Warmly,

> **

>

>

> ,

> Thank you for sharing your story. I could have been your younger sister. I

> actually got chills reading your story. My older sister was a lot towards me

> as you describe yourself being towards your younger sister. Our nada was

> hardest on her and she withdrew from our family into her own world to

> survive and I was left alone, although we have a younger sibling as well. My

> sister would boss me around and laugh at me and always had to be faster,

> stronger and better at things. It was very difficult because I looked up to

> her and trusted her for a long time. Eventually, after feeling laughed at

> and pushed around (I often withdrew too, but was naturally optomistic) and

> not taken seriously, or considered by her for years, I began to look up to

> her less and eventually lost trust in her or respect for her. She chose her

> friends and boyfriends over me every time and expected me to cover for her

> when she lied to our parents, etc. I eventually felt so sad and used and bad

> about it all that I asked her to stop telling me things I had to keep

> secret. She thought I was a dork and not cool enough and told everyone I was

> a tattle tale. I actually wasn't, but wanted to sometimes. It hurt that she

> didn't even notice me enough to know I wasn't telling on her, but probably

> should have. I really knew I couldn't have a close relationship with her,

> when at age 19, ONe time I really needed someone to talk to and called her

> to come see me an hour away at college. I promised to give her gas money and

> practically begged her to come. She said she couldn't come and gave no

> reason and Iknew she had a party going on at her and her boyfriends

> apartment. I was crushed and something in me about her permenantly changed

> that day. I knew I couldn't rely on her. I am not one who tends to hold

> grudges, but being adandoned for years by a sibling does effect a person. We

> all have to feel safe and take care of ourselves and anyone who violates our

> trust and well being and feeling safe we keep at arms length.

> My sister and i are now in our fifties and our relationship is better. We

> see on another about once a year and talk on the phone about once a month-

> very much about daily things, keep it on the surface. She likes her space

> and lives alone, far away, and I like my space and am busy with my family.

> We don't talk about nada or BPD at all , I don't even think she knows what

> it is. I have finally pulled away from nada and she now lives within a few

> miles of nada and they are close. Things are like opposite of when we were

> young. We have a shared history and can laugh and love each other, but I

> think now can respect one another for our differences, but don't need to be

> close or even really understand one another. I love her and always will and

> now see that she did what she had to do to survive when we were young and so

> did I. We are like survivors of war of sorts and have shared memories but

> never really get deep into it as it is too painful. Somethings don't need to

> be rehased and are better left alone. She has apoligized in general for

> being a jerk to me throughout the years and instead of telling her it was

> okay I actually let her say what she had to say and thanked her for her

> apology. We are different people now and have moved on.

>

> True

>

>

>

> >

> > Hi Svaktshka,

> >

> > I'm now emailing from my new " anonomyized " account.

> >

> > Yes, I've apologized. I've tried to open up the lines of communication on

> > this topic many times. I've not only given her permission, but I've

> > suggested that it would be good for us both in the longer term if she

> told

> > me anything she wants me to acknowledge or apologize for from the past,

> even

> > though it might be hard for me to hear in the short term. However, one of

> > her many rules is that we are not supposed to talk about the past, so she

> > doesn't/hasn't taken me up on my offer.

> >

> > When we were younger what I feel bad about is that I was competitive with

> > her. Mostly normal sibling stuff, but people in our father's side of the

> > family were bizarrely competitive, so I think I was learning some of it

> from

> > watching people around me. I always wanted to beat her at things, like

> card

> > games and races and so on. The thing is it was easy because she was

> younger

> > than me. I feel like an idiot about it now. I also wanted her to do

> things

> > for me, like to go to the corner store and get something that I wanted. I

> > would talk her into it by bribing her and buying her something, but I

> knew

> > she didn't really want to do it. I was pushy with her to get my way and I

> > guess you could say that I bossed her around. I feel like an idiot about

> > that too. Later in our childhoods, I was just insensitive to her needs

> and

> > feelings by ignoring her. She was really, really withdrawn, so it wasn't

> > hard to do. When I found a way to get away from our nada by being out of

> > the house by hanging out with friends and then boyfriends I threw myself

> > into my social life and did not look back. I can only imagine she felt

> > forsaken. It was not intentional, but I sure feel bad that I didn't care

> > about her more at that time by tuning into her world. I was pretty

> > self-involved.

> >

> > It is funny because as a parent myself now, I am very quick to not let my

> > older daughter do that sort of thing to my younger daughter. I think on

> > some level I am very sensitive to it because I am trying to make up for

> the

> > past with my sister. When I see my kids being generous and loving with

> each

> > other rather than competitive and selfish, it is one of the few things

> that

> > makes up for the sadness and grief I have about my sister and our

> > relationship.

> >

> > I think that part of what is going on for my sister and I now is that she

> > never had a chance to rebel against my parents in the normal

> developmental

> > sense of separating and individuating. For one thing, they were not

> normal

> > parents. Our parents were divorced and our fada (NPD) had already

> absented

> > himself from our lives. Our nada (BPD) was no picnic to separate from.

> > When I was going through it, she raged at me and disowned me and then

> went

> > on a character assassination campaign to discredit me with pretty much

> > anyone who would listen including my sister. Having witnessed all of this

> > first hand, I think my sister decided it was not safe to separate. And it

> > wasn't. She was pretty much brainwashed by my nada into thinking I was

> bad

> > and that her job was to take care of nada's needs and especially since I

> was

> > so awful and not doing so myself anymore as I once had. The reason I am

> > explaining all of this is that I suspect that part of what is going on

> now

> > is that my sister is separating. I was probably the closest thing to a

> > parent that she did have. There were definitely times when I was

> protective

> > and supportive of her in ways that a parent should be. Of course, as a

> > child myself, I was mighty inconsistent and sometimes misguided.

> >

> > Even though I can understand it in this way, it still hurts and the way

> she

> > is going about it is especially hurtful. She has (or had at least)

> > convinced herself the I have BPD and that she has to keep herself safe

> from

> > me. She has never said that to me directly, but it has been obvious by

> the

> > way she was treating me and things she was saying. We've both read the

> same

> > books and she follows the suggestions in them like a script and has

> adopted

> > much of their language.

> >

> > I can understand how I remind her of nada in some ways (including even

> > physically, but also in terms of temperament as I am quite a passionate

> and

> > emotional person), but she treats me like I am nada. It is really weird

> and

> > creepy. It is like she can not or will not see me as me. It feel as

> though

> > she has an actual aversion to me. I think I just must remind her too much

> > of a painful past that she wants to forget, so she has to shut me out.

> The

> > last times that I have been around her and when she has corresponded with

> me

> > by email, she has been really stiff and formal with me, verging on cold

> and

> > business-like. Saccharin and polite on the surface, but angry indirectly

> > underneath. It has been really unpleasant. I've asked her about it, but

> > she just says she is not willing to discuss it.

> >

> > Another part of the history is that I had been saying for years and years

> > and years that nada was mentally ill and that it was BPB. My sister did

> not

> > want to hear it at the time. That was when she started making rules about

> > topics of conversation that were permissible and not. She didn't want to

> > know about BPD and she didn't want to talk about nada with me. More

> > recently, since nada cut my sister off a couple of years ago, my sister

> > started learning about BPD. Now she fancies herself an expert on the

> > subject.

> >

> > With me, she is just closed. It sucks and is very painful. She does not

> > want to be known in an intimate way (certainly by me, but I suspect by

> > anyone), and she does not want to know me as me or in an intimate way.

> She

> > would be happy to talk about our kids and pretend to be cheerful, but I

> am

> > really bad at faking it in this way when there is so much unsaid lurking

> > under the surface. I've said all of this to her, but she chooses to

> ignore

> > it.

> >

> > The good news is that I have a really wonderful set of friends and

> partner

> > (my family of choice), so I'm not lonely overall. I just wish she and I

> > could share more with each other.

> >

> > I am really glad that you and your sister found a way to be close and

> > supportive of each other. And I really appreciate talking to you about

> this

> > stuff. It's way better than having it only in my head and I'm finding it

> > somewhat cathartic just to express it to people who are in the position

> to

> > understand. I do talk to my friends about it, but they don't have any

> first

> > hand experience with Borderline Land - thank goodness for them - so

> > somethings are hard to get across.

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

,

I too really hope you get the chance,sooner than later, to tell your sister what

you have shared here about your remorse about things you did or didn't do in

your earlier years with her, and that she really sees and listens to you. It

sounds like you are both searching and working hard to feel better in your own

selves and about your own lives.

Please don't lose heart, it may take more time, but it will be worth the wait.

I would welcome you and me being " mutually supportive and understanding " of one

another as we venture forth. One of my favorite quotes is from Dr.

Black's book , " Changing Course " . In it she writes, " Healthy relationships are

based on self responsibility and mutual support. " Such a little sentence with so

much truth and punch!

Sincerely,

True

> > >

> > > Hi Svaktshka,

> > >

> > > I'm now emailing from my new " anonomyized " account.

> > >

> > > Yes, I've apologized. I've tried to open up the lines of communication on

> > > this topic many times. I've not only given her permission, but I've

> > > suggested that it would be good for us both in the longer term if she

> > told

> > > me anything she wants me to acknowledge or apologize for from the past,

> > even

> > > though it might be hard for me to hear in the short term. However, one of

> > > her many rules is that we are not supposed to talk about the past, so she

> > > doesn't/hasn't taken me up on my offer.

> > >

> > > When we were younger what I feel bad about is that I was competitive with

> > > her. Mostly normal sibling stuff, but people in our father's side of the

> > > family were bizarrely competitive, so I think I was learning some of it

> > from

> > > watching people around me. I always wanted to beat her at things, like

> > card

> > > games and races and so on. The thing is it was easy because she was

> > younger

> > > than me. I feel like an idiot about it now. I also wanted her to do

> > things

> > > for me, like to go to the corner store and get something that I wanted. I

> > > would talk her into it by bribing her and buying her something, but I

> > knew

> > > she didn't really want to do it. I was pushy with her to get my way and I

> > > guess you could say that I bossed her around. I feel like an idiot about

> > > that too. Later in our childhoods, I was just insensitive to her needs

> > and

> > > feelings by ignoring her. She was really, really withdrawn, so it wasn't

> > > hard to do. When I found a way to get away from our nada by being out of

> > > the house by hanging out with friends and then boyfriends I threw myself

> > > into my social life and did not look back. I can only imagine she felt

> > > forsaken. It was not intentional, but I sure feel bad that I didn't care

> > > about her more at that time by tuning into her world. I was pretty

> > > self-involved.

> > >

> > > It is funny because as a parent myself now, I am very quick to not let my

> > > older daughter do that sort of thing to my younger daughter. I think on

> > > some level I am very sensitive to it because I am trying to make up for

> > the

> > > past with my sister. When I see my kids being generous and loving with

> > each

> > > other rather than competitive and selfish, it is one of the few things

> > that

> > > makes up for the sadness and grief I have about my sister and our

> > > relationship.

> > >

> > > I think that part of what is going on for my sister and I now is that she

> > > never had a chance to rebel against my parents in the normal

> > developmental

> > > sense of separating and individuating. For one thing, they were not

> > normal

> > > parents. Our parents were divorced and our fada (NPD) had already

> > absented

> > > himself from our lives. Our nada (BPD) was no picnic to separate from.

> > > When I was going through it, she raged at me and disowned me and then

> > went

> > > on a character assassination campaign to discredit me with pretty much

> > > anyone who would listen including my sister. Having witnessed all of this

> > > first hand, I think my sister decided it was not safe to separate. And it

> > > wasn't. She was pretty much brainwashed by my nada into thinking I was

> > bad

> > > and that her job was to take care of nada's needs and especially since I

> > was

> > > so awful and not doing so myself anymore as I once had. The reason I am

> > > explaining all of this is that I suspect that part of what is going on

> > now

> > > is that my sister is separating. I was probably the closest thing to a

> > > parent that she did have. There were definitely times when I was

> > protective

> > > and supportive of her in ways that a parent should be. Of course, as a

> > > child myself, I was mighty inconsistent and sometimes misguided.

> > >

> > > Even though I can understand it in this way, it still hurts and the way

> > she

> > > is going about it is especially hurtful. She has (or had at least)

> > > convinced herself the I have BPD and that she has to keep herself safe

> > from

> > > me. She has never said that to me directly, but it has been obvious by

> > the

> > > way she was treating me and things she was saying. We've both read the

> > same

> > > books and she follows the suggestions in them like a script and has

> > adopted

> > > much of their language.

> > >

> > > I can understand how I remind her of nada in some ways (including even

> > > physically, but also in terms of temperament as I am quite a passionate

> > and

> > > emotional person), but she treats me like I am nada. It is really weird

> > and

> > > creepy. It is like she can not or will not see me as me. It feel as

> > though

> > > she has an actual aversion to me. I think I just must remind her too much

> > > of a painful past that she wants to forget, so she has to shut me out.

> > The

> > > last times that I have been around her and when she has corresponded with

> > me

> > > by email, she has been really stiff and formal with me, verging on cold

> > and

> > > business-like. Saccharin and polite on the surface, but angry indirectly

> > > underneath. It has been really unpleasant. I've asked her about it, but

> > > she just says she is not willing to discuss it.

> > >

> > > Another part of the history is that I had been saying for years and years

> > > and years that nada was mentally ill and that it was BPB. My sister did

> > not

> > > want to hear it at the time. That was when she started making rules about

> > > topics of conversation that were permissible and not. She didn't want to

> > > know about BPD and she didn't want to talk about nada with me. More

> > > recently, since nada cut my sister off a couple of years ago, my sister

> > > started learning about BPD. Now she fancies herself an expert on the

> > > subject.

> > >

> > > With me, she is just closed. It sucks and is very painful. She does not

> > > want to be known in an intimate way (certainly by me, but I suspect by

> > > anyone), and she does not want to know me as me or in an intimate way.

> > She

> > > would be happy to talk about our kids and pretend to be cheerful, but I

> > am

> > > really bad at faking it in this way when there is so much unsaid lurking

> > > under the surface. I've said all of this to her, but she chooses to

> > ignore

> > > it.

> > >

> > > The good news is that I have a really wonderful set of friends and

> > partner

> > > (my family of choice), so I'm not lonely overall. I just wish she and I

> > > could share more with each other.

> > >

> > > I am really glad that you and your sister found a way to be close and

> > > supportive of each other. And I really appreciate talking to you about

> > this

> > > stuff. It's way better than having it only in my head and I'm finding it

> > > somewhat cathartic just to express it to people who are in the position

> > to

> > > understand. I do talk to my friends about it, but they don't have any

> > first

> > > hand experience with Borderline Land - thank goodness for them - so

> > > somethings are hard to get across.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >