Guest guest Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 To keep this short (if possible) my nada called Sat. night upset, sure she was dying. I was pretty sure she was just upset about having to go to PT, hating the exercises and appointments. I knew this was coming. She tried to convince me the exercises were killing her. I managed to talk her through this, avoid a useless trip to ER. She snapped out of it, was saying how wonderful I was, blah, blah. Today she had to go to PT. She didn't want to show up at all. I explained that she should go at least one more time to explain to them what was going on and it would be the polite thing to do. She went but was snarky about it. Still says she never wants to go again. The new doctor is trying to help her get stronger but she doesn't want help; she wants an audience. Got back to her house, saw some mail about property taxes, noticed my dad's name is still on there. He died over 3 years ago. Called the county, they demanded all kinds of paperwork to straighten it out. Tried to find the paperwork but my nada has stashed it someplace, maybe even shredded it. She's shredded so much paperwork over the past few years, we don't know what's gone. The papers about my Dad were in the bottom drawer of his dresser. Now the only thing in there is a towel and pillow. She insists she did not put those there, that she did not move the paperwork. And she was glaring at us the whole time. I felt accused but who knows. Helped her look for the papers, noticed her will was not in the safe. She said she moved it so burglars couldn't get it. Hmm, what about the cash, jewelry and bonds in there? I mentioned that if she passed away, we couldn't do anything without the will. We would have no right to do anything. She just shrugged and said we could find it. I'm not a happy camper right now. She hates dealing with paperwork but then does all she can to make it harder for us to handle it. I wish I had the balls to go NC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 For what its worth, one of the odd behaviors my nada began displaying within the last 6 months or so was " hiding " things so " people wouldn't steal them " . Her neighbors in the apartment complex were very sweet and would tell Sister when our nada had been seen wandering around the apartment complex grounds in the bushes and other landscaping. Nada was hiding things there for safekeeping. As it turns out, my nada was rapidly reaching a level of dementia that was making it unsafe for her to be living alone. She was hallucinating that " people " were coming through the walls of her apartment and taking her valuables from her, so she needed to hide them. She'd forget that she'd hidden something like a piece of jewelry in the oven or outside somewhere, and she would conclude that it was not in its proper storage place because it had been stolen by one of " the people " . Sad, huh? Nada was " the people " taking her own things and hiding them, and then she'd forget she did that. So... just offering that as a possibility. Odd and irrational behaviors (like removing valuables from a safe so the burglars can't get them) due to increasingly paranoid thinking or delusional thinking could possibly be a sign of dementia. Only a psychiatrist can make that determination, but I suggest its a good idea to look up the signs and symptoms of encroaching dementia in older people so you can be more aware whether nada is approaching a stage where she's becoming a danger to herself and others. When my nada started wandering around alone outside at night Sister realized that something more serious than nada's usual bpd behaviors was going on, and nada could easily just step off the edge of the ravine bordering the apartment grounds on one side, or wander into the street and get run over. My nada is safely looked after now at a residential care home specializing in Alzheimer's patients, which is a load off Sister's mind in particular. And mine. -Annie > > To keep this short (if possible) my nada called Sat. night upset, sure she was dying. I was pretty sure she was just upset about having to go to PT, hating the exercises and appointments. I knew this was coming. She tried to convince me the exercises were killing her. I managed to talk her through this, avoid a useless trip to ER. She snapped out of it, was saying how wonderful I was, blah, blah. > > Today she had to go to PT. She didn't want to show up at all. I explained that she should go at least one more time to explain to them what was going on and it would be the polite thing to do. She went but was snarky about it. Still says she never wants to go again. The new doctor is trying to help her get stronger but she doesn't want help; she wants an audience. > > Got back to her house, saw some mail about property taxes, noticed my dad's name is still on there. He died over 3 years ago. Called the county, they demanded all kinds of paperwork to straighten it out. Tried to find the paperwork but my nada has stashed it someplace, maybe even shredded it. She's shredded so much paperwork over the past few years, we don't know what's gone. The papers about my Dad were in the bottom drawer of his dresser. Now the only thing in there is a towel and pillow. She insists she did not put those there, that she did not move the paperwork. And she was glaring at us the whole time. I felt accused but who knows. > > Helped her look for the papers, noticed her will was not in the safe. She said she moved it so burglars couldn't get it. Hmm, what about the cash, jewelry and bonds in there? I mentioned that if she passed away, we couldn't do anything without the will. We would have no right to do anything. She just shrugged and said we could find it. > > I'm not a happy camper right now. She hates dealing with paperwork but then does all she can to make it harder for us to handle it. I wish I had the balls to go NC. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Irene, you must dread it when the phone rings. I agree with Annie re: the hiding things b/c of fearful logic (don't know what else to call it). My mother is like that as well, but for her, it's things like if I call her on a Sunday morning, she picks up on the first ring b/c " I don't want the neighbors to know I'm on the phone; don't want them to know what I'm doing. " I keep telling nada to do her paperwork for senior housing in our town but won't b/c then " the landlady will know i'm thinking of leaving and will kick me out. " (she has to put her landlady's contact info on the application, so I understand her hesitation, but there's no other way to get into that housing.) Sorry for all you're going through, truly. Fiona > > To keep this short (if possible) my nada called Sat. night upset, sure she was dying. I was pretty sure she was just upset about having to go to PT, hating the exercises and appointments. I knew this was coming. She tried to convince me the exercises were killing her. I managed to talk her through this, avoid a useless trip to ER. She snapped out of it, was saying how wonderful I was, blah, blah. > > Today she had to go to PT. She didn't want to show up at all. I explained that she should go at least one more time to explain to them what was going on and it would be the polite thing to do. She went but was snarky about it. Still says she never wants to go again. The new doctor is trying to help her get stronger but she doesn't want help; she wants an audience. > > Got back to her house, saw some mail about property taxes, noticed my dad's name is still on there. He died over 3 years ago. Called the county, they demanded all kinds of paperwork to straighten it out. Tried to find the paperwork but my nada has stashed it someplace, maybe even shredded it. She's shredded so much paperwork over the past few years, we don't know what's gone. The papers about my Dad were in the bottom drawer of his dresser. Now the only thing in there is a towel and pillow. She insists she did not put those there, that she did not move the paperwork. And she was glaring at us the whole time. I felt accused but who knows. > > Helped her look for the papers, noticed her will was not in the safe. She said she moved it so burglars couldn't get it. Hmm, what about the cash, jewelry and bonds in there? I mentioned that if she passed away, we couldn't do anything without the will. We would have no right to do anything. She just shrugged and said we could find it. > > I'm not a happy camper right now. She hates dealing with paperwork but then does all she can to make it harder for us to handle it. I wish I had the balls to go NC. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Thank you for the input. Nada has a new doctor that she likes at the moment. She wasn't very happy when he told her she shouldn't be living alone. I admit I thought I would throw up when I considered that he might even suggest she move in with us. But he didn't. Now that he has her full file from the other doctor, perhaps he'll understand more of what's going on. But she refused to even consider living in assisted living. He told her she can decide now on a place of her choosing or end up in some place because she's fallen and broken her hip or back. (She claims to be falling all the time, I'm not so sure she is since she never has bumps or bruises) I figure any way it works out, after she dies, the paperwork is going to be a disaster. If she doesn't understand a piece of paperwork, she shreds it. I agree that having her in assisted living would take a huge load off of us emotionally. At least someone else can help with her care and emotional need for an audience. I wonder if her doctor will have her assessed. She keeps telling everyone how she needs a psych consult. I try so hard not to laugh. Perhaps she'll get what she wants. But she also brags about her ability to manipulate people. Don't you just gag when strangers look at you and say how " sweet, wonderful, funny " your mom is? The nurse yesterday thanked me! for bringing her in. She said she would love to take her home with her. I'm thinking - go right ahead. You wouldn't last a week. > > > So... just offering that as a possibility. Odd and irrational behaviors (like removing valuables from a safe so the burglars can't get them) due to increasingly paranoid thinking or delusional thinking could possibly be a sign of dementia. Only a psychiatrist can make that determination, but I suggest its a good idea to look up the signs and symptoms of encroaching dementia in older people so you can be more aware whether nada is approaching a stage where she's becoming a danger to herself and others. > > When my nada started wandering around alone outside at night Sister realized that something more serious than nada's usual bpd behaviors was going on, and nada could easily just step off the edge of the ravine bordering the apartment grounds on one side, or wander into the street and get run over. My nada is safely looked after now at a residential care home specializing in Alzheimer's patients, which is a load off Sister's mind in particular. And mine. > > -Annie > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 My nada fools people into believing she's wonderful, sweet, friendly, etc. too. I feel the urge to be sick when someone tells me so. It would be nice if all the people who think she's wonderful would takes turns dealing with her normal everyday behavior. At 11:47 AM 10/18/2011 IreneM wrote: >Thank you for the input. Nada has a new doctor that she likes >at the moment. She wasn't very happy when he told her she >shouldn't be living alone. I admit I thought I would throw up >when I considered that he might even suggest she move in with >us. But he didn't. Now that he has her full file from the other >doctor, perhaps he'll understand more of what's going on. But >she refused to even consider living in assisted living. He told >her she can decide now on a place of her choosing or end up in >some place because she's fallen and broken her hip or back. >(She claims to be falling all the time, I'm not so sure she is >since she never has bumps or bruises) > >I figure any way it works out, after she dies, the paperwork is >going to be a disaster. If she doesn't understand a piece of >paperwork, she shreds it. > >I agree that having her in assisted living would take a huge >load off of us emotionally. At least someone else can help with >her care and emotional need for an audience. I wonder if her >doctor will have her assessed. She keeps telling everyone how >she needs a psych consult. I try so hard not to laugh. Perhaps >she'll get what she wants. But she also brags about her ability >to manipulate people. Don't you just gag when strangers look at >you and say how " sweet, wonderful, funny " your mom is? The >nurse yesterday thanked me! for bringing her in. She said she >would love to take her home with her. I'm thinking - go right >ahead. You wouldn't last a week. -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Oh, yes. Back when I was still enmeshed and in contact with nada, she was utterly charming to friends of mine I'd introduce her to. Its hard for other people to understand that very fundamental aspect of those with personality disorder, particularly the Cluster B disorders: that they have that ability to wear the " mask " of charm in public and be quite convincingly sincere, rational and appealing when they want to or when it suits their purpose. They take off the mask for us; we know what's really under that thing. So your nada's doctor has already brought up the subject of nada choosing an assisted living residence. From the behaviors you describe that sounds like a good plan to start researching and choosing potential places, now. Sister went out and did some research on her own and took our nada to three different places in her area (so nada would still be fairly close to her church, her doctors and her friends and our relatives) and let nada choose which one she preferred. Nada at first appeared to be cooperative, but.... Nada had a delayed reaction of intense paranoia, fear, panic, rage and actual physical violence after relocating to the nice residential care home; that out-of-control and dangerous behavior got her hospitalized in a psychiatric hospital for a two week evaluation. When she was released from the hospital she had to switch to a room in the Alzheimer's unit for a while ... but now that nada is more stabilized due to actually swallowing her meds (she'd not taken any of them on her own, convinced that Sister, her doctor and the nurses were trying to poison her) she's back in the part of the facility where the residents do not need such intensive nursing care. Sister says its a nice place with several buildings and cottages on grounds that are partially wooded and landscaped, like a neighborhood. Part of it is more like a retirement community for residents who need just a little help, like transportation or housekeeping, and part of it is more like apartment complexes that can accommodate those with Alzheimer's, and part of it is more like a hospital for those who need nursing care due to being bedridden, etc. So, I have an idea of what you are going through, even though I'm getting these reports from Sister second-hand; its still stressful and gut-wrenching to go through for all parties involved. -Annie > > > > > > So... just offering that as a possibility. Odd and irrational behaviors (like removing valuables from a safe so the burglars can't get them) due to increasingly paranoid thinking or delusional thinking could possibly be a sign of dementia. Only a psychiatrist can make that determination, but I suggest its a good idea to look up the signs and symptoms of encroaching dementia in older people so you can be more aware whether nada is approaching a stage where she's becoming a danger to herself and others. > > > > When my nada started wandering around alone outside at night Sister realized that something more serious than nada's usual bpd behaviors was going on, and nada could easily just step off the edge of the ravine bordering the apartment grounds on one side, or wander into the street and get run over. My nada is safely looked after now at a residential care home specializing in Alzheimer's patients, which is a load off Sister's mind in particular. And mine. > > > > -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Thank you for understanding. I'm still trying to get a grip on my frustration. It's stupid for me to keep reacting this way when I know what's going on. I think once I do my standard Wednesday call and see what she's like (emotion of the day for her), I'll feel better. She'll either act normally or tell me to leave her alone for days because she has things to do. She has another PT appt. on Thursday but I bet she won't go. I honestly don't care. As for goofy things they do, it's not nice to laugh but that's how I keep my sanity. My nada believes a neighbor has a spying device in her window and listens in on the neighbors' conversations. When my nada is angry, she'll stand out in the driveway and talk to this neighbor's window - " OK Ginny, I know you can hear me. I called the city about the pine needles from your tree. I told you it had to be cleaned up and now you're in trouble. " I don't laugh out loud but it looks so foolish to have a grown woman talking to the neighbor's house. > > Irene, you must dread it when the phone rings. > > I agree with Annie re: the hiding things b/c of fearful logic (don't know what else to call it). My mother is like that as well, but for her, it's things like if I call her on a Sunday morning, she picks up on the first ring b/c " I don't want the neighbors to know I'm on the phone; don't want them to know what I'm doing. " > > I keep telling nada to do her paperwork for senior housing in our town but won't b/c then " the landlady will know i'm thinking of leaving and will kick me out. " (she has to put her landlady's contact info on the application, so I understand her hesitation, but there's no other way to get into that housing.) > > Sorry for all you're going through, truly. > > Fiona > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 One of the bpd diagnostic criteria is " transient (short-lived) paranoia and delusional thoughts precipitated by stress " , but if the paranoid and delusional thinking become fixed/unshakable and chronic, more frequent and intense, then its possible that something more potentially serious is going on that requires a medical checkup and psychiatric evaluation. Increasingly odd or extreme behaviors are something to make note of in an elderly nada and I suggest its a good idea to bring up this subject with your nada's doctor or therapist if at all possible, if or when you notice that nada is gradually (or suddenly) becoming more paranoid than usual, more delusional, (or if you prefer: " eccentric " ), more forgetful, or if she acts out in more extreme ways than she usually does: such as her mood swings become more exaggerated or change more rapidly, she becomes physically violent towards herself or others, etc. -Annie > > > > Irene, you must dread it when the phone rings. > > > > I agree with Annie re: the hiding things b/c of fearful logic (don't know what else to call it). My mother is like that as well, but for her, it's things like if I call her on a Sunday morning, she picks up on the first ring b/c " I don't want the neighbors to know I'm on the phone; don't want them to know what I'm doing. " > > > > I keep telling nada to do her paperwork for senior housing in our town but won't b/c then " the landlady will know i'm thinking of leaving and will kick me out. " (she has to put her landlady's contact info on the application, so I understand her hesitation, but there's no other way to get into that housing.) > > > > Sorry for all you're going through, truly. > > > > Fiona > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 I agree, I have to laugh, or else I'll go bonkers. in fact, I got a good chuckle out of your mom talking to a house... honestly, I really do feel sadness for your nada's situation and for my nada, at how, for instance, she refuses to sleep in her own bed b/c someone might break in at night. She has slept on her couch in her little apt for the past 4 1/2 years, since my father passed away. Not a sofa bed. She sleeps on the cushions. I know this is not good for her back, but she won't listen to me and, at very least, buy a sofa bed. I feel sadness at how she doesn't trust anyone around her. She has one good friend. That friend lied to her recently about something and now my mother has blacklisted her. She continues calling her, she says, so she has someone to talk to, but " it will never be the same between us. " It's sad, that she can't have an authentic friendship b/c she won't allow anyone to make a mistake. I know her friend lied about what she did (long story, not worth repeating) to spare my mother's feelings about something, b/c she's obviously aware of what a case my nada is. sigh, all that to say, I truly do have pity and sadness for my nada, as you do Irene. But if I focus too much on that, it turns into depression and easily into codependency, trying to fix her. I need to keep my distance, and laugh about it sometimes. I don't know why I just said all that, but it felt good to let it out! fiona > > > > Irene, you must dread it when the phone rings. > > > > I agree with Annie re: the hiding things b/c of fearful logic (don't know what else to call it). My mother is like that as well, but for her, it's things like if I call her on a Sunday morning, she picks up on the first ring b/c " I don't want the neighbors to know I'm on the phone; don't want them to know what I'm doing. " > > > > I keep telling nada to do her paperwork for senior housing in our town but won't b/c then " the landlady will know i'm thinking of leaving and will kick me out. " (she has to put her landlady's contact info on the application, so I understand her hesitation, but there's no other way to get into that housing.) > > > > Sorry for all you're going through, truly. > > > > Fiona > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Definitely more forgetful which could be related to her age. Eccentric - that's her middle name. LOL But I have been keeping a journal of sorts listing things she's done that I thought were out of the ordinary for her, based on her past behavior. In case I need to approach her doctor, I'll have a document with dates and bits that I've written down rather than trying to remember what's gone on. A short update on the hidden will - it's so hidden, she can't find it. She called me all upset because she doesn't know where it is. I would say it's in the house some place but knowing how she shreds things, who knows. I called her attorney's office and they don't keep copies of wills and she doesn't do wills any more. So it's back to square one. Get a new attorney and write up a new will. Wonder if I can convince her to get a safe deposit box and store it there. She doesn't drive so maybe it will be safe then. > > One of the bpd diagnostic criteria is " transient (short-lived) paranoia and delusional thoughts precipitated by stress " , but if the paranoid and delusional thinking become fixed/unshakable and chronic, more frequent and intense, then its possible that something more potentially serious is going on that requires a medical checkup and psychiatric evaluation. > > Increasingly odd or extreme behaviors are something to make note of in an elderly nada and I suggest its a good idea to bring up this subject with your nada's doctor or therapist if at all possible, if or when you notice that nada is gradually (or suddenly) becoming more paranoid than usual, more delusional, (or if you prefer: " eccentric " ), more forgetful, or if she acts out in more extreme ways than she usually does: such as her mood swings become more exaggerated or change more rapidly, she becomes physically violent towards herself or others, etc. > > -Annie > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Hmmm. Well, there are very real consequences to her actions and her determination to act like a spoiled child. If she quits PT, she will lose strength, flexibility, and become an invalid much sooner. If she hides her will, it will cause chaos and cost a lot of money when the time comes to probate her estate. You could call her bluff, I guess. " Mom, if you don't go to PT you will be bedridden or wheelchair bound at a much younger age. So you need to choose a nursing home now. " " Mom, if you don't help me gather the will and other important papers, you'll be considered intestate and your estate will not be disposed of as you wish. I can't afford to fight it, so I'll have to just walk away. " Sounds like she's intent on making your life hell just to get attention. Can you make it clear that you won't play her game, and that if she insists on acting like a crazy old lady, she'll wind up being treated like a crazy old lady (i.e., independence and self-determination taken away, a court-appointed stranger chosen as guardian, her estate divided according to some probate judge instead of according to her wishes)? She may get mad and cut you out of the loop - let's see, would that be a punishment or a reward? > > To keep this short (if possible) my nada called Sat. night upset, sure she was dying. I was pretty sure she was just upset about having to go to PT, hating the exercises and appointments. I knew this was coming. She tried to convince me the exercises were killing her. I managed to talk her through this, avoid a useless trip to ER. She snapped out of it, was saying how wonderful I was, blah, blah. > > Today she had to go to PT. She didn't want to show up at all. I explained that she should go at least one more time to explain to them what was going on and it would be the polite thing to do. She went but was snarky about it. Still says she never wants to go again. The new doctor is trying to help her get stronger but she doesn't want help; she wants an audience. > > Got back to her house, saw some mail about property taxes, noticed my dad's name is still on there. He died over 3 years ago. Called the county, they demanded all kinds of paperwork to straighten it out. Tried to find the paperwork but my nada has stashed it someplace, maybe even shredded it. She's shredded so much paperwork over the past few years, we don't know what's gone. The papers about my Dad were in the bottom drawer of his dresser. Now the only thing in there is a towel and pillow. She insists she did not put those there, that she did not move the paperwork. And she was glaring at us the whole time. I felt accused but who knows. > > Helped her look for the papers, noticed her will was not in the safe. She said she moved it so burglars couldn't get it. Hmm, what about the cash, jewelry and bonds in there? I mentioned that if she passed away, we couldn't do anything without the will. We would have no right to do anything. She just shrugged and said we could find it. > > I'm not a happy camper right now. She hates dealing with paperwork but then does all she can to make it harder for us to handle it. I wish I had the balls to go NC. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Irene - yes, if you can't find the will and you think she may have shredded it, you'd better get a new one, especially if she has assets that need to be divided. A suggestion - since your Nada is acting so crazy, you might want to download a " simple will " from an Internet site and use it as a template to ask Nada what she wants to do - I'm not suggesting you forego a lawyer, though. I'm thinking you might be able to avoid extra billable hours if you can get the " intake " part of the work done in advance. Especially if you think it will be a simple procedure and there's not going to be a lot of fighting among heirs. If she gets to the attorney's office and starts pulling the waify, incompetent Nada act, it could become unnecessarily expensive. Or, find a lawyer who'll do the will for a flat fee, or ask for the intake form in advance so you (and your siblings) can go over it with her and get things written down in advance of the meeting. She can always change her mind - I'm just thinking it will save a lot of time to get the information nailed down ahead of the appointment. > > > > One of the bpd diagnostic criteria is " transient (short-lived) paranoia and delusional thoughts precipitated by stress " , but if the paranoid and delusional thinking become fixed/unshakable and chronic, more frequent and intense, then its possible that something more potentially serious is going on that requires a medical checkup and psychiatric evaluation. > > > > Increasingly odd or extreme behaviors are something to make note of in an elderly nada and I suggest its a good idea to bring up this subject with your nada's doctor or therapist if at all possible, if or when you notice that nada is gradually (or suddenly) becoming more paranoid than usual, more delusional, (or if you prefer: " eccentric " ), more forgetful, or if she acts out in more extreme ways than she usually does: such as her mood swings become more exaggerated or change more rapidly, she becomes physically violent towards herself or others, etc. > > > > -Annie > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Oh my word - are we related? Do we have the same nada? Mine refused to sleep in the bedroom after my dad died because she felt isolated back there (I understand). She said she wanted to sleep on the couch in case someone broke in, she could beat them up with her stick. Considering how long it takes her to get up off the couch where she sleeps, I doubt she'll be hitting anyone. She tried recently to sleep in her bed but said it was a horrible mattress (this is the same one she loved when my dad was alive and she wouldn't let him sleep there with her). Now she's in physical therapy to help with body pain. Mine is the same about having friends. If they let her down even once, they're history. And most of the time they have no idea what they did wrong. Recently a neighbor borrowed a weed whacker from nada, she returned it but my nada swears up and down she did not. She even confronted the neighbor about it. But it was sitting right there in the garage. My nada says while her back was turned, the neighbor ran home, grabbed it and slipped it in there. Sure thing. > > I agree, I have to laugh, or else I'll go bonkers. > in fact, I got a good chuckle out of your mom talking to a house... honestly, I really do feel sadness for your nada's situation and for my nada, at how, for instance, she refuses to sleep in her own bed b/c someone might break in at night. > > She has slept on her couch in her little apt for the past 4 1/2 years, since my father passed away. Not a sofa bed. She sleeps on the cushions. I know this is not good for her back, but she won't listen to me and, at very least, buy a sofa bed. > > I feel sadness at how she doesn't trust anyone around her. She has one good friend. That friend lied to her recently about something and now my mother has blacklisted her. She continues calling her, she says, so she has someone to talk to, but " it will never be the same between us. " It's sad, that she can't have an authentic friendship b/c she won't allow anyone to make a mistake. I know her friend lied about what she did (long story, not worth repeating) to spare my mother's feelings about something, b/c she's obviously aware of what a case my nada is. > > sigh, all that to say, I truly do have pity and sadness for my nada, as you do Irene. But if I focus too much on that, it turns into depression and easily into codependency, trying to fix her. I need to keep my distance, and laugh about it sometimes. > > I don't know why I just said all that, but it felt good to let it out! > > fiona > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 The plan was for me to help her look for the will today. When I went over she said she didn't want to be bothered with it, she was tired of thinking about it, she wants to go shopping instead. I said, " OK, can I just share a couple things I learned before we go? " She was anxious to hear. I explained without a will her whole estate will be tied up in probate, possibly up to a year for a simple estate. I will have no right to touch her stuff until a judge decides. Plus they will charge 3-7% for their trouble. I will have to pay for a lawyer to help me. And because she has another child (one she gave away when he was a baby), they will contact him and he will be entitled to 1/2 of her estate whether she likes it or not. That blew her gasket. There's a long story to that one but she's so angry with him because he didn't adore her after he found her as an adult. He didn't call or visit often enough so she cut him out again. What fun. She did go to PT today but the therapist came out and talked to me about some things. I didn't bad mouth my nada but I just explained a few things that were going on. I think they're getting a clear message that she should not be alone at home. > > Hmmm. Well, there are very real consequences to her actions and her determination to act like a spoiled child. > > If she quits PT, she will lose strength, flexibility, and become an invalid much sooner. > > If she hides her will, it will cause chaos and cost a lot of money when the time comes to probate her estate. > > You could call her bluff, I guess. " Mom, if you don't go to PT you will be bedridden or wheelchair bound at a much younger age. So you need to choose a nursing home now. " " Mom, if you don't help me gather the will and other important papers, you'll be considered intestate and your estate will not be disposed of as you wish. I can't afford to fight it, so I'll have to just walk away. " > > Sounds like she's intent on making your life hell just to get attention. Can you make it clear that you won't play her game, and that if she insists on acting like a crazy old lady, she'll wind up being treated like a crazy old lady (i.e., independence and self-determination taken away, a court-appointed stranger chosen as guardian, her estate divided according to some probate judge instead of according to her wishes)? > > She may get mad and cut you out of the loop - let's see, would that be a punishment or a reward? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 O boy, what a mess. Could you get her to make another will? Steph Re: Soul Sucker strikes again The plan was for me to help her look for the will today. When I went over she said she didn't want to be bothered with it, she was tired of thinking about it, she wants to go shopping instead. I said, " OK, can I just share a couple things I learned before we go? " She was anxious to hear. I explained without a will her whole estate will be tied up in probate, possibly up to a year for a simple estate. I will have no right to touch her stuff until a judge decides. Plus they will charge 3-7% for their trouble. I will have to pay for a lawyer to help me. And because she has another child (one she gave away when he was a baby), they will contact him and he will be entitled to 1/2 of her estate whether she likes it or not. That blew her gasket. There's a long story to that one but she's so angry with him because he didn't adore her after he found her as an adult. He didn't call or visit often enough so she cut him out again. What fun. She did go to PT today but the therapist came out and talked to me about some things. I didn't bad mouth my nada but I just explained a few things that were going on. I think they're getting a clear message that she should not be alone at home. Hmmm. Well, there are very real consequences to her actions and her determination to act like a spoiled child. If she quits PT, she will lose strength, flexibility, and become an invalid much sooner. If she hides her will, it will cause chaos and cost a lot of money when the time comes to probate her estate. You could call her bluff, I guess. " Mom, if you don't go to PT you will be bedridden or wheelchair bound at a much younger age. So you need to choose a nursing home now. " " Mom, if you don't help me gather the will and other important papers, you'll be considered intestate and your estate will not be disposed of as you wish. I can't afford to fight it, so I'll have to just walk away. " Sounds like she's intent on making your life hell just to get attention. Can you make it clear that you won't play her game, and that if she insists on acting like a crazy old lady, she'll wind up being treated like a crazy old lady (i.e., independence and self-determination taken away, a court-appointed stranger chosen as guardian, her estate divided according to some probate judge instead of according to her wishes)? She may get mad and cut you out of the loop - let's see, would that be a punishment or a reward? ------------------------------------ **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write @.... DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST. To unsub from this list, send a blank email to WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe . Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline Parent, " and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find)Yahoo! Groups Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 Good job, Irene!! I've had many, many " work days " where the " plan " was to accomplish something with Nada, only to be derailed because she " couldn't " or " needed to address another priority " (like going shopping or out to eat - basically, having dessert without eating her vegetables first). When she finally was hospitalized then moved to assisted living, I had to clean out everything, dismantle the financial mess, and figure out how to pay her bills and keep her insurance in place - with no help from her, because of course she was weak and disoriented. Then when she regained lucidity, she was mad at me for doing all that work and " getting rid of her stuff. " So it goes... It sounds like you have given her something to chew on, and maybe that will get her motivated to either find the will or make another one. And when she does, try to get her to put the will in a safe deposit box, or buy her one of those fire safes, bolt it to the closet floor so she can't move it, and then you keep the duplicate key (or both of them, if you can manage it!). Or get her to rent a safe deposit box, but be sure you can have access, even if she is still alive. Or pay the lawyer to hold the will at the office, if that's possible. Ditto with original insurance policies, deeds, loan papers, and any other crucial business papers. If she can't manage these papers like a grownup, you'll need a " plan B. " Maybe make copies for her and you keep the originals " in case there's a fire " ? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 that'd be nice if we were related! i'd have a sister to commiserate with! Hey, but I have a whole board of sisters and brothers!! ha ha I know it must be hard after a spouse dies, but I guess what happened with our mothers is that the already bad relational part of them just got worse, terribly worse. Yes, she's very paranoid and my brother doesn't help. He adds to it, by agreeing with her on some things and adding his own " theories. " I love the stick story, Irene. It's the way you said it that made me laugh. It's actually sad that your mother (and mine) don't want to engage life. I know it must be scary at their age. > > > > I agree, I have to laugh, or else I'll go bonkers. > > in fact, I got a good chuckle out of your mom talking to a house... honestly, I really do feel sadness for your nada's situation and for my nada, at how, for instance, she refuses to sleep in her own bed b/c someone might break in at night. > > > > She has slept on her couch in her little apt for the past 4 1/2 years, since my father passed away. Not a sofa bed. She sleeps on the cushions. I know this is not good for her back, but she won't listen to me and, at very least, buy a sofa bed. > > > > I feel sadness at how she doesn't trust anyone around her. She has one good friend. That friend lied to her recently about something and now my mother has blacklisted her. She continues calling her, she says, so she has someone to talk to, but " it will never be the same between us. " It's sad, that she can't have an authentic friendship b/c she won't allow anyone to make a mistake. I know her friend lied about what she did (long story, not worth repeating) to spare my mother's feelings about something, b/c she's obviously aware of what a case my nada is. > > > > sigh, all that to say, I truly do have pity and sadness for my nada, as you do Irene. But if I focus too much on that, it turns into depression and easily into codependency, trying to fix her. I need to keep my distance, and laugh about it sometimes. > > > > I don't know why I just said all that, but it felt good to let it out! > > > > fiona > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 I sympathize with you. About 8 or 9 months ago now, my nada got really vicious with Sister when Sister tried to help nada get her financial papers together and get nada to go over her will, and finalize it. Nada called Sister a " shark " and accused Sister of trying to deceive her and steal from her, which really cut Sister to the quick and caused Sister to go No Contact with nada (again) for several weeks. Sister decided to turn the issue over to nada's younger sister (our Aunt S) whom nada seems to idealize more than other people, and as far as I know Aunt S managed to get nada to sign the necessary papers to get the will finalized and get nada to turn over power of attorney to Sister. I am not knowledgeable about these things, but perhaps a one-hour consultation with a lawyer who specializes in wills could give you some ideas to consider from an expert's perspective. And I agree that its better to get the issue over with and settled now, if possible. Nadas can be very stubborn, though, and mine at least was very resistant about turning over any source of power to anyone else. Best of luck to you. -Annie > > Hmmm. Well, there are very real consequences to her actions and > her determination to act like a spoiled child. > > If she quits PT, she will lose strength, flexibility, and become > an invalid much sooner. > > If she hides her will, it will cause chaos and cost a lot of > money when the time comes to probate her estate. > > You could call her bluff, I guess. " Mom, if you don't go to PT > you will be bedridden or wheelchair bound at a much younger age. > So you need to choose a nursing home now. " " Mom, if you don't > help me gather the will and other important papers, you'll be > considered intestate and your estate will not be disposed of as > you wish. I can't afford to fight it, so I'll have to just walk > away. " > > Sounds like she's intent on making your life hell just to get > attention. Can you make it clear that you won't play her game, > and that if she insists on acting like a crazy old lady, she'll > wind up being treated like a crazy old lady (i.e., independence > and self-determination taken away, a court-appointed stranger > chosen as guardian, her estate divided according to some probate > judge instead of according to her wishes)? > > She may get mad and cut you out of the loop - let's see, would > that be a punishment or a reward? > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new book > The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder: > New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, available at > www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write @... DO > NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST. > > To unsub from this list, send a blank email to > WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe > > Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline Parent, " > and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find)Yahoo! > Groups Links > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Update: she did finally find the will, said she's putting it in the safe and will leave it there. Well, what a novel idea. On the other hand, she's been hiding money all over the house for years, hiding it from my Dad. She found a bunch of wads, put them together in a little file folder and hid it. Now she can't remember where. Whatever. I was more worried about legal hassles when she goes than a wad of cash. It will turn up some day. She did tell me that she wanted to hang on to the will because she felt more powerful, that she had control over her life. Funny in a way since she can't understand her mail, her bank account, how to use her phone or how to adjust the thermostat (she called me again about how to turn on the heat). But hanging onto that pile of paper makes her feel powerful. Maybe she's right. > > I am not knowledgeable about these things, but perhaps a one-hour consultation with a lawyer who specializes in wills could give you some ideas to consider from an expert's perspective. > > And I agree that its better to get the issue over with and settled now, if possible. Nadas can be very stubborn, though, and mine at least was very resistant about turning over any source of power to anyone else. Best of luck to you. > > -Annie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Here's hoping your nada is actually telling you the truth and not just saying she found the will to get you off her back. And here's hoping that you can actually get into the safe when you need to and don't have to pay someone to come and get it open; that's pretty expensive, from what I've heard. I'm sounding pretty cynical today, huh. -Annie > > > > > I am not knowledgeable about these things, but perhaps a one-hour consultation with a lawyer who specializes in wills could give you some ideas to consider from an expert's perspective. > > > > And I agree that its better to get the issue over with and settled now, if possible. Nadas can be very stubborn, though, and mine at least was very resistant about turning over any source of power to anyone else. Best of luck to you. > > > > -Annie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Lets blow the safe! I'll help . . . if it comes to that. Typical girlscout always wanting to blow things up! On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 3:17 PM, anuria67854 wrote: > ** > > > Here's hoping your nada is actually telling you the truth and not just > saying she found the will to get you off her back. And here's hoping that > you can actually get into the safe when you need to and don't have to pay > someone to come and get it open; that's pretty expensive, from what I've > heard. I'm sounding pretty cynical today, huh. > > -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > I am not knowledgeable about these things, but perhaps a one-hour > consultation with a lawyer who specializes in wills could give you some > ideas to consider from an expert's perspective. > > > > > > And I agree that its better to get the issue over with and settled now, > if possible. Nadas can be very stubborn, though, and mine at least was very > resistant about turning over any source of power to anyone else. Best of > luck to you. > > > > > > -Annie > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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