When do you confront?

[Guest guest]

I've been aware of nada's manipulations for many years now, and usually do a

pretty good job of distancing myself when she starts complaining. Here's the

gist of the latest situation: our family just celebrated the birth of a very

special baby with hydrocephalus and special needs. That means lots of comments

about a " prognosis " and lots of Woe is me comments from nada. I just keep

telling her we are praying and she is a little miracle who has blessed our lives

already. (it is my granddsughter, her great granddaughter). She kept offering to

help, as we work and still have to get baby to appts 2 hours away almost every

week. Finally I had to call on her for a ride, 2x. Both times afterward she

called to complain. The first time about the rude neurosurgeon who didn't even

give her a chance to tell him she was a nurse (who hasn't practiced in 20 yrs.)

And what terrible bedside manner he had, he would drive people away, etc...

(he's been practicing for 52 yrs btw!) she ranted for a good 10 minutes about

This guy and has brought him up several times since. The next time she

complained AFTERWARD, that she had to give up something way more fun in order to

do us this favor. My grown children ask why I take this, why I don't tell her to

drop dead and hang up on her. Am I being too passive by not speaking up and

telling her she's adding to my stress? It will create pouting and retaliation if

I do. She will bring up something she thinks I said or did 5 years ago that hurt

her feelings, and as you know, most of those incidents never even happened

except in her mind. I can't win, so is it in my best interests to say something

anyway? Sometimes I've felt better, other times it just caused more drama

fodder... I hate wasting time on this nonsense when I have more important things

to think about! Thanks.

[Guest guest]

I think your children are asking a valid question. It does sound

like you're being passive and accepting whatever abuse she heaps

on you. The question is whether or not there's a better option

for you. There are alternatives other than confrontation or

totally accepting what she does. Trying to confront her about

her behavior directly seems unlikely to improve things. My

suggestion is to decide what you will and won't put up with

(otherwise known as " setting boundaries " ). Then figure out how

you're going to handle it when she does things you won't put up

with. My technique for dealing with my nada's complaints about

other people, including her insistence on bringing up incidents

from years ago that only happened in her mind, is to tell her

I'm not going to discuss that topic. I don't tell her that what

she's saying is wrong or obnoxious or nasty. I just tell her I'm

not going to discuss it with her. Then, if she won't stop, I say

goodbye and hang up the phone or get up and leave. She doesn't

like it, but I don't choose to allow her to act that way around

me. If she wants to complain and say nasty things about people I

care about, she can do it to someone other than me. Is there a

reason you have to listen when your nada calls to complain? Does

she have a hold over you that prevents you from disengaging

before she's done?

At 04:49 PM 10/23/2011 mrspolloart wrote:

>I've been aware of nada's manipulations for many years now, and

>usually do a pretty good job of distancing myself when she

>starts complaining. Here's the gist of the latest situation:

>our family just celebrated the birth of a very special baby

>with hydrocephalus and special needs. That means lots of

>comments about a " prognosis " and lots of Woe is me comments

>from nada. I just keep telling her we are praying and she is a

>little miracle who has blessed our lives already. (it is my

>granddsughter, her great granddaughter). She kept offering to

>help, as we work and still have to get baby to appts 2 hours

>away almost every week. Finally I had to call on her for a

>ride, 2x. Both times afterward she called to complain. The

>first time about the rude neurosurgeon who didn't even give her

>a chance to tell him she was a nurse (who hasn't practiced in

>20 yrs.) And what terrible bedside manner he had, he would

>drive people away, etc... (he's been practicing for 52 yrs

>btw!) she ranted for a good 10 minutes about

>This guy and has brought him up several times since. The next

>time she complained AFTERWARD, that she had to give up

>something way more fun in order to do us this favor. My grown

>children ask why I take this, why I don't tell her to drop dead

>and hang up on her. Am I being too passive by not speaking up

>and telling her she's adding to my stress? It will create

>pouting and retaliation if I do. She will bring up something

>she thinks I said or did 5 years ago that hurt her feelings,

>and as you know, most of those incidents never even happened

>except in her mind. I can't win, so is it in my best interests

>to say something anyway? Sometimes I've felt better, other

>times it just caused more drama fodder... I hate wasting time

>on this nonsense when I have more important things to think

>about! Thanks.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

>

> I think your children are asking a valid question. It does sound

> like you're being passive and accepting whatever abuse she heaps

> on you. The question is whether or not there's a better option

> for you. There are alternatives other than confrontation or

> totally accepting what she does. Is there a

> reason you have to listen when your nada calls to complain? Does

> she have a hold over you that prevents you from disengaging

> before she's done?

Katrina

Great questions Katrina, and they make me realize I still have unresolved stuff

to work on. I do believe a much better option would be to disengage much

quicker. I realize I was sucked into trying to model appropriate behavior to

nada, by explaining that no I didn't notice the doctor ignoring me or being

abrupt with me BECAUSE I'm not the baby's mother, so I stood back and let my

daughter handle it, only asking questions when I didn't understand something. I

also wasted breath saying he was director of neurosurgery, I'm sure he's a

marvelous, very busy doctor. Silly in retrospect, but sometimes I forget she's

not going to get it. And yes, she must have a hold for me to numb myself and let

her ramble, then get angry after we hang up and I think about it. I am NOT in

touch with my anger, I'm one of the most patient, passive people I know, all in

the name of being a peacekeeper. Ugh, I'm not liking the sound or the feel of

this. Back to the psychologist again for a refresher on boundaries. Thanks

Katrina.

[Guest guest]

I agree with Katrina's suggestion RE setting a couple of boundaries with your

nada, in a polite but assertive way. Taking your adult power back by limiting

your exposure to your nada's negativity (controlling the duration of phone calls

and controlling the topics you choose to allow) will, I'm betting, make you feel

a lot less impotently frustrated.

If its possible for you to avoid *depending* on your nada for even occasional

favors and avoid including her (keeping her out of the loop) RE aspects of your

life that are causing you stress (so that she can't magnify and exacerbate the

stress) then perhaps you won't feel obligated to put up with her abusive

treatment.

Anyway, welcome to the Group (if I haven't welcomed you before) and I hope you

will find some solution that works for you.

-Annie

> >

> > I think your children are asking a valid question. It does sound

> > like you're being passive and accepting whatever abuse she heaps

> > on you. The question is whether or not there's a better option

> > for you. There are alternatives other than confrontation or

> > totally accepting what she does. Is there a

> > reason you have to listen when your nada calls to complain? Does

> > she have a hold over you that prevents you from disengaging

> > before she's done?

>

> Katrina

>

> Great questions Katrina, and they make me realize I still have unresolved

stuff to work on. I do believe a much better option would be to disengage much

quicker. I realize I was sucked into trying to model appropriate behavior to

nada, by explaining that no I didn't notice the doctor ignoring me or being

abrupt with me BECAUSE I'm not the baby's mother, so I stood back and let my

daughter handle it, only asking questions when I didn't understand something. I

also wasted breath saying he was director of neurosurgery, I'm sure he's a

marvelous, very busy doctor. Silly in retrospect, but sometimes I forget she's

not going to get it. And yes, she must have a hold for me to numb myself and let

her ramble, then get angry after we hang up and I think about it. I am NOT in

touch with my anger, I'm one of the most patient, passive people I know, all in

the name of being a peacekeeper. Ugh, I'm not liking the sound or the feel of

this. Back to the psychologist again for a refresher on boundaries. Thanks

Katrina.

>

[Guest guest]

In my experience, confronting a BP is counterproductive. They will

shift to the victim mode at the speed of light, and you are instantly

wrong.

It is sometimes effective to deflect. For example, " Mom, I know that

Dr had some issues, but I m really stressed about this and thinking

about it just adds to my stress. ( Not a lie, everyone has issues, not

confirming her assessment, but letting her think what she wants to,

which she will anyway) But I really do appreciate your help in getting

to the Dr appointment. It helps me and gives us some time together, so

everyone wins! Thank you. So, mom, I like your hair. Where did you get

it done.

If that doesn t work, you can set boundaries. The downside there is, of

course, if you expect Mom to act like a mature, non BP adult, you will

be disappointed. And ulitmately, enforcing boundaries, you have to be

prepared to say " You know Mom, getting a ride to the Dr is not worth

dealing with this crap. I ll see if there are church groups or such

that are willing to help me. " '

One question that comes to mind, is the adult kids. Their question is

valid. But my counter would be ( unless they live a long distance away)

, " You are absolutely right. I should not put up with that. Can you be

here Thursday at 8 to go to the Dr with me and the baby? It is true

that no one ever wants to take anything from a BP, because they attach

so very much emotional cost to everything they give. Nothing is ever

free, everything is begrudged.

That being said, for our child we will endure a lot.

Life is more complex when we are KOs.

Doug

>

> I've been aware of nada's manipulations for many years now, and

usually do a pretty good job of distancing myself when she starts

complaining. Here's the gist of the latest situation: our family just

celebrated the birth of a very special baby with hydrocephalus and

special needs. That means lots of comments about a " prognosis " and lots

of Woe is me comments from nada. I just keep telling her we are praying

and she is a little miracle who has blessed our lives already. (it is my

granddsughter, her great granddaughter). She kept offering to help, as

we work and still have to get baby to appts 2 hours away almost every

week. Finally I had to call on her for a ride, 2x. Both times afterward

she called to complain. The first time about the rude neurosurgeon who

didn't even give her a chance to tell him she was a nurse (who hasn't

practiced in 20 yrs.) And what terrible bedside manner he had, he would

drive people away, etc... (he's been practicing for 52 yrs btw!) she

ranted for a good 10 minutes about

> This guy and has brought him up several times since. The next time she

complained AFTERWARD, that she had to give up something way more fun in

order to do us this favor. My grown children ask why I take this, why I

don't tell her to drop dead and hang up on her. Am I being too passive

by not speaking up and telling her she's adding to my stress? It will

create pouting and retaliation if I do. She will bring up something she

thinks I said or did 5 years ago that hurt her feelings, and as you

know, most of those incidents never even happened except in her mind. I

can't win, so is it in my best interests to say something anyway?

Sometimes I've felt better, other times it just caused more drama

fodder... I hate wasting time on this nonsense when I have more

important things to think about! Thanks.

>

[Guest guest]

The distance you describe is necessary--the more you detach from her involvement

in your life the better off you will be. The words they express seem to indicate

they LIKE being in the thick of family crises--but as you've seen, they only add

extra stress to any situation. Her 'importance' in front of the doctor was shot

down, so she's looking to be the victim for being ignored. That takes energy

that no one in your family can afford to pay to her right now--that baby needs

it, not her!

I found confrontation got me nowhere but in more trouble. Confrontation means

you are bringing a concern to the table and expecting to get to a mutually

positive outcome. This can't happen with a borderline because: 1) they won't

admit there is a problem, 2) won't accept responsibility for a problem, 3) even

if cornered, will appease you to your face and then do what they want to

continue do the same things (i.e., undermine you).

So, instead, set boundaries. If you are going to keep some semblance of peace

you must choose wisely which battles you will enforce. If you try to win

everything at once--they will be resentful and act persecuted. The sad part is,

by the time WE MUST set boundaries or die, we have usually given the borderline

way too much control. Go slow, unless the matter involves safety of children (If

safety is an issue, THAT must be your first concern and to hell with keeping the

peace).

Any change threatens borderlines, so a lot depends on how functional they are,

whether they allow you to soothe/reassure them, and how patient you are. In some

cases, the patience of a saint would not make a healthy outcome--the borderline

is just too distrusting or angry.

So here you have a new baby (change) with a medical problems (upset). The

borderline is so full of fear and lacking any control over the outcome that she

is being a huge PEST right now. You have my sympathy, hun. Congrats on the new

grandbaby--I sure hope that baby is going to be ok <hugs>.

>

> I've been aware of nada's manipulations for many years now, and usually do a

pretty good job of distancing myself when she starts complaining. Here's the

gist of the latest situation: our family just celebrated the birth of a very

special baby with hydrocephalus and special needs. That means lots of comments

about a " prognosis " and lots of Woe is me comments from nada. I just keep

telling her we are praying and she is a little miracle who has blessed our lives

already. (it is my granddsughter, her great granddaughter). She kept offering to

help, as we work and still have to get baby to appts 2 hours away almost every

week. Finally I had to call on her for a ride, 2x. Both times afterward she

called to complain. The first time about the rude neurosurgeon who didn't even

give her a chance to tell him she was a nurse (who hasn't practiced in 20 yrs.)

And what terrible bedside manner he had, he would drive people away, etc...

(he's been practicing for 52 yrs btw!) she ranted for a good 10 minutes about

> This guy and has brought him up several times since. The next time she

complained AFTERWARD, that she had to give up something way more fun in order to

do us this favor. My grown children ask why I take this, why I don't tell her to

drop dead and hang up on her. Am I being too passive by not speaking up and

telling her she's adding to my stress? It will create pouting and retaliation if

I do. She will bring up something she thinks I said or did 5 years ago that hurt

her feelings, and as you know, most of those incidents never even happened

except in her mind. I can't win, so is it in my best interests to say something

anyway? Sometimes I've felt better, other times it just caused more drama

fodder... I hate wasting time on this nonsense when I have more important things

to think about! Thanks.

>