New to the Group, Not New to the Insanity

[Guest guest]

Hey guys,

I'm brand new here, and I'm desperate for some strategizing and help. First,

I've read about nada and fada and fleas and think I gather what they are:) so

I'll give this a shot.

My nada, who's only just recently admitted she's got mental issues is very ill.

She is only 55 years old (i'm 34) and somatacizes everything so her main focus

these days is on physical diseases. I honestly feel that this focus on her body

keeps her from acting out her bpd but it is equally manipulative,

heartwrenching, guilt-inducing and sad. For example, everytime she tries to

leave her fiance, she either gets violently ill or starts to hallucinate. She

has been to the emergency room more times than I can count and for more

things...she's always been riddled with " bizarre " physical symptoms that no one

can figure out...foaming at the mouth, for example. She has mild emphysema,

advanced osteoporosis, a pacemaker installed in her bladder, she is severely

underweight bc she claims everything she eats makes her (imaginary) ulcers act

up. She has recently developed asthma and claims she can't leave her house and

had been driving everyone in her life mad bc of her new requirements. Her lung

collapsed last week and she had to get some fibrosis removed and she sent me an

email saying no one loves her or was thinking about her when she was in the

hospital with a " midieval torture device jammed down her lung " , claiming that

she was sparing me horrific details. She's like the woman who cried wolf so now

that it's real (I still believe it's a passive suicide effort, to be honest)

people don't know what to think. I do feel guilty, the lung collapse was

real...what if she is just a physical mess? Anyway, she's on a cocktail of meds

that are probably interacting like crazy and maybe making her more nuts so I

feel like I'm in check mate.

She no longer outright flips out on me bc she knows I won't take it anymore but

she does pull very manipulative guilt tricks and twists what I say around to

villainize me from afar when she has a flare up...we live on opposite sides of

the country now. For example if I try to say something helpful in response to

something negative she's got stuck in her head and keeps venting, she'll twist

it around to be something manipulative and selfish and say I'm attacking her and

that she was so distraught from me dwelling on the past (she was alternately

abusive and charming when I grew up) and reminding her of what a terrible mother

she was that she had to pray all night in order not to " disappear. " That's code

word for " kill herself. " She's good at convincing her fiance that I'm the source

of her terror and shame, but to her church friend she blames her fiance and his

drinking...or my " bringing up the past " which I don't do but now I'm starting to

want to! To her fiance's family she blames her doctors and hospitals for

torturing her...it's always someone else. She has been diagnosed with

schizoeffective but that doesn't explain the myriad classic textbook bpd

symptoms I was raised by. Classic BPD...she even says she had no idea there was

anything wrong with her until this year...in my mid twenties only did I become

aware of the bpd symptoms i'd inherited and believe me, I've done everything in

my power to outgrow them...some stick.

It doesn't feel like I was raised by a person, just a confusing and scary puzzle

with a sometimes magically angellic twist. I miss that angellic part, it was the

only taste of love I ever got. And it keeps me optimistic that she can get

better. Anyway, I'm all over the place here because well, this is a messy and

unfair checkmate spot to be in. She doesn't know that I know she's threatened to

gas herself (the person who told me begged me to keep confidential) many times

this year, going into the garage and turning on the car and calling her fiance

and telling him she's about to do it...she'd deny it up and down and then

somehow accuse me of making her flip out if I were to bring it up...I've tried.

The thing is, I've seen this stuff when I was young but when she'd snap out of

it, she had no idea why i'd be upset or sad or confused and accuse me/my brother

of being mentally ill.

Gosh, I'm sorry for this rant maybe being confusing. I'm writing from my phone

in bed. I'm so riddled with nerves and zaps and anger and frustration and deep

hopelessness about this that I feel paralized. I'm so rollercoastered and fueled

by rage and despair that I can't work at the moment, which isn't helping

matters. I'm in therapy, I have minimized contact with her, etc., but she haunts

me. I keep saying I'm in checkmate for a reason. I feel I cannot make any moves

without being ousted, or her possibly being successful at killing herself and

blaming me and family members blaming me, I fear breaking the tie will be too

much because there are lovable parts to her and I don't want to kill those off

and I've tried to seperate it all out to take the good and leave the bad but I

can't make it work. I am desperate for surrogate parents and grandparents, for

mentors in this world...people to laugh and cry and make memories with...I want

to be a mom, myself but I fear that living with this my whole life has left too

many fleas on me...I've itched so much I've gaping infected wounds but with no

insurance to treat them. I get depressed (maybe the depression is resentment)

easily and jealous of people with loving moms when I see them out...I'm a mess

and it seems there's no way to move past this. I need advice!

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the Group " ITTT " .

I can understand your feelings of frustration and anxiety, your nada does sound

like she is a very unhappy person, is very out-of-control emotionally, is in

poor physical health, and probably has an alphabet soup of emotional disorders.

What I'll suggest for now is that reading up and educating yourself even more

about personality disorders and the Cluster B disorders in particular can help

take some of your anxiety and frustration away, because it makes her behaviors

feel less personal and less due to anything you may or may not have done. The

adult children of bpd mothers and fathers are often " parentified " : saddled with

very inappropriate and misplaced feelings of guilt or responsibility for they

way their mentally ill parent feels, as though you are your mother's parent.

It simply is not possible to make another adult (particularly someone with bpd)

happy with herself, inside herself; happiness has to come from one's own self.

I recommend " Understanding The Borderline Mother " ; its very comprehensive RE a

wide range of bpd behaviors. " The Essential Family Guide to BPD " gives some

strategies for managing a relationship with a bpd relative, RE setting

boundaries and other coping devices.

(But basically, the options for us are:

Low/Limited Contact with firm boundaries in place and consequences for boundary

violations, or

No Contact (either temporarily or permanently), or

Just leaving things the way they are.)

Your nada was (I'm guessing) probably a very disturbed person before you were

even born. You did not make her the way she is, and you can't cure her. Your

nada is the only one who has that power, but she has to choose to seek therapy

for herself. (Or, if she becomes even more of a danger to herself or others,

she will very likely have an involuntary psychiatric evaluation.)

Which brings up the point of her suicide threats and attempts. Suicide

prevention centers generally state that the way to handle suicide threats or

attempts is to call 911. Each time. Suicide threats and attempts should be

taken seriously, mainly because borderline pd has the highest successful suicide

rate of all the personality disorders.

If your nada threatens suicide and is taken in for emergency treatment, she will

be given a psychiatric evaluation and might be in-patient for a while. Her

history of out-of-control and extreme behaviors and mood swings and suicidal

gestures you've described make this sound inevitable to me, but that is just my

own perspective and personal opinion (I'm no psychologist, just a fellow Adult

Kid Of a Borderline PD Parent.)

If you have access to therapy yourself, I hope you will take advantage of that

and will look for a therapist who is familiar with treating the adult children

of personality-disordered parents. It really makes a difference when you can

talk in person with a therapist who understands the kind of damage that a

personality-disordered parent can inflict on their child and help you find ways

to overcome any misplaced, inappropriate feelings of guilt and responsibility.

And you can share posts with us here, we are in a way a kind of virtual but

unmoderated Therapy group.

I hope you and the other new members here will find much healing and peace,

using whatever method works best for you.

-Annie

>

> Hey guys,

>

> I'm brand new here, and I'm desperate for some strategizing and help. First,

I've read about nada and fada and fleas and think I gather what they are:) so

I'll give this a shot.

>

> My nada, who's only just recently admitted she's got mental issues is very

ill. She is only 55 years old (i'm 34) and somatacizes everything so her main

focus these days is on physical diseases. I honestly feel that this focus on her

body keeps her from acting out her bpd but it is equally manipulative,

heartwrenching, guilt-inducing and sad. For example, everytime she tries to

leave her fiance, she either gets violently ill or starts to hallucinate. She

has been to the emergency room more times than I can count and for more

things...she's always been riddled with " bizarre " physical symptoms that no one

can figure out...foaming at the mouth, for example. She has mild emphysema,

advanced osteoporosis, a pacemaker installed in her bladder, she is severely

underweight bc she claims everything she eats makes her (imaginary) ulcers act

up. She has recently developed asthma and claims she can't leave her house and

had been driving everyone in her life mad bc of her new requirements. Her lung

collapsed last week and she had to get some fibrosis removed and she sent me an

email saying no one loves her or was thinking about her when she was in the

hospital with a " midieval torture device jammed down her lung " , claiming that

she was sparing me horrific details. She's like the woman who cried wolf so now

that it's real (I still believe it's a passive suicide effort, to be honest)

people don't know what to think. I do feel guilty, the lung collapse was

real...what if she is just a physical mess? Anyway, she's on a cocktail of meds

that are probably interacting like crazy and maybe making her more nuts so I

feel like I'm in check mate.

>

> She no longer outright flips out on me bc she knows I won't take it anymore

but she does pull very manipulative guilt tricks and twists what I say around to

villainize me from afar when she has a flare up...we live on opposite sides of

the country now. For example if I try to say something helpful in response to

something negative she's got stuck in her head and keeps venting, she'll twist

it around to be something manipulative and selfish and say I'm attacking her and

that she was so distraught from me dwelling on the past (she was alternately

abusive and charming when I grew up) and reminding her of what a terrible mother

she was that she had to pray all night in order not to " disappear. " That's code

word for " kill herself. " She's good at convincing her fiance that I'm the source

of her terror and shame, but to her church friend she blames her fiance and his

drinking...or my " bringing up the past " which I don't do but now I'm starting to

want to! To her fiance's family she blames her doctors and hospitals for

torturing her...it's always someone else. She has been diagnosed with

schizoeffective but that doesn't explain the myriad classic textbook bpd

symptoms I was raised by. Classic BPD...she even says she had no idea there was

anything wrong with her until this year...in my mid twenties only did I become

aware of the bpd symptoms i'd inherited and believe me, I've done everything in

my power to outgrow them...some stick.

>

> It doesn't feel like I was raised by a person, just a confusing and scary

puzzle with a sometimes magically angellic twist. I miss that angellic part, it

was the only taste of love I ever got. And it keeps me optimistic that she can

get better. Anyway, I'm all over the place here because well, this is a messy

and unfair checkmate spot to be in. She doesn't know that I know she's

threatened to gas herself (the person who told me begged me to keep

confidential) many times this year, going into the garage and turning on the car

and calling her fiance and telling him she's about to do it...she'd deny it up

and down and then somehow accuse me of making her flip out if I were to bring it

up...I've tried. The thing is, I've seen this stuff when I was young but when

she'd snap out of it, she had no idea why i'd be upset or sad or confused and

accuse me/my brother of being mentally ill.

>

> Gosh, I'm sorry for this rant maybe being confusing. I'm writing from my phone

in bed. I'm so riddled with nerves and zaps and anger and frustration and deep

hopelessness about this that I feel paralized. I'm so rollercoastered and fueled

by rage and despair that I can't work at the moment, which isn't helping

matters. I'm in therapy, I have minimized contact with her, etc., but she haunts

me. I keep saying I'm in checkmate for a reason. I feel I cannot make any moves

without being ousted, or her possibly being successful at killing herself and

blaming me and family members blaming me, I fear breaking the tie will be too

much because there are lovable parts to her and I don't want to kill those off

and I've tried to seperate it all out to take the good and leave the bad but I

can't make it work. I am desperate for surrogate parents and grandparents, for

mentors in this world...people to laugh and cry and make memories with...I want

to be a mom, myself but I fear that living with this my whole life has left too

many fleas on me...I've itched so much I've gaping infected wounds but with no

insurance to treat them. I get depressed (maybe the depression is resentment)

easily and jealous of people with loving moms when I see them out...I'm a mess

and it seems there's no way to move past this. I need advice!

>

[Guest guest]

Not confusing at all. My nada sounds a lot like yours. Lots of mysterious

physical ailments that can't be nailed down or confirmed with tests, tons of

medications, tons of drama. My nada's physical health has gone from being

hypochondriacal symptoms in her head to REAL physical problems because she won't

exercise, eats like crap, is totally overmedicated and drinks on top of it.

I hate to sound pessimistic, but I think you'll find that hope of her " getting

better " is futile. I still had those hopes when I started visiting this group a

few years ago. Now I've come to the realization that she'll never get better,

and in fact she's getting worse, and I've got to retrain myself when it comes to

how I respond to her and deal with her. Most of us choose low or no contact.

Good luck, and please post here when you need to. It's a great place to vent and

ask for advice. I feel pretty grounded and sane today, but it only takes what I

call an " ambush " phone call from my nada to completely knock me on my ass

emotionally.

>

> Hey guys,

>

> I'm brand new here, and I'm desperate for some strategizing and help. First,

I've read about nada and fada and fleas and think I gather what they are:) so

I'll give this a shot.

>

> My nada, who's only just recently admitted she's got mental issues is very

ill. She is only 55 years old (i'm 34) and somatacizes everything so her main

focus these days is on physical diseases. I honestly feel that this focus on her

body keeps her from acting out her bpd but it is equally manipulative,

heartwrenching, guilt-inducing and sad. For example, everytime she tries to

leave her fiance, she either gets violently ill or starts to hallucinate. She

has been to the emergency room more times than I can count and for more

things...she's always been riddled with " bizarre " physical symptoms that no one

can figure out...foaming at the mouth, for example. She has mild emphysema,

advanced osteoporosis, a pacemaker installed in her bladder, she is severely

underweight bc she claims everything she eats makes her (imaginary) ulcers act

up. She has recently developed asthma and claims she can't leave her house and

had been driving everyone in her life mad bc of her new requirements. Her lung

collapsed last week and she had to get some fibrosis removed and she sent me an

email saying no one loves her or was thinking about her when she was in the

hospital with a " midieval torture device jammed down her lung " , claiming that

she was sparing me horrific details. She's like the woman who cried wolf so now

that it's real (I still believe it's a passive suicide effort, to be honest)

people don't know what to think. I do feel guilty, the lung collapse was

real...what if she is just a physical mess? Anyway, she's on a cocktail of meds

that are probably interacting like crazy and maybe making her more nuts so I

feel like I'm in check mate.

>

> She no longer outright flips out on me bc she knows I won't take it anymore

but she does pull very manipulative guilt tricks and twists what I say around to

villainize me from afar when she has a flare up...we live on opposite sides of

the country now. For example if I try to say something helpful in response to

something negative she's got stuck in her head and keeps venting, she'll twist

it around to be something manipulative and selfish and say I'm attacking her and

that she was so distraught from me dwelling on the past (she was alternately

abusive and charming when I grew up) and reminding her of what a terrible mother

she was that she had to pray all night in order not to " disappear. " That's code

word for " kill herself. " She's good at convincing her fiance that I'm the source

of her terror and shame, but to her church friend she blames her fiance and his

drinking...or my " bringing up the past " which I don't do but now I'm starting to

want to! To her fiance's family she blames her doctors and hospitals for

torturing her...it's always someone else. She has been diagnosed with

schizoeffective but that doesn't explain the myriad classic textbook bpd

symptoms I was raised by. Classic BPD...she even says she had no idea there was

anything wrong with her until this year...in my mid twenties only did I become

aware of the bpd symptoms i'd inherited and believe me, I've done everything in

my power to outgrow them...some stick.

>

> It doesn't feel like I was raised by a person, just a confusing and scary

puzzle with a sometimes magically angellic twist. I miss that angellic part, it

was the only taste of love I ever got. And it keeps me optimistic that she can

get better. Anyway, I'm all over the place here because well, this is a messy

and unfair checkmate spot to be in. She doesn't know that I know she's

threatened to gas herself (the person who told me begged me to keep

confidential) many times this year, going into the garage and turning on the car

and calling her fiance and telling him she's about to do it...she'd deny it up

and down and then somehow accuse me of making her flip out if I were to bring it

up...I've tried. The thing is, I've seen this stuff when I was young but when

she'd snap out of it, she had no idea why i'd be upset or sad or confused and

accuse me/my brother of being mentally ill.

>

> Gosh, I'm sorry for this rant maybe being confusing. I'm writing from my phone

in bed. I'm so riddled with nerves and zaps and anger and frustration and deep

hopelessness about this that I feel paralized. I'm so rollercoastered and fueled

by rage and despair that I can't work at the moment, which isn't helping

matters. I'm in therapy, I have minimized contact with her, etc., but she haunts

me. I keep saying I'm in checkmate for a reason. I feel I cannot make any moves

without being ousted, or her possibly being successful at killing herself and

blaming me and family members blaming me, I fear breaking the tie will be too

much because there are lovable parts to her and I don't want to kill those off

and I've tried to seperate it all out to take the good and leave the bad but I

can't make it work. I am desperate for surrogate parents and grandparents, for

mentors in this world...people to laugh and cry and make memories with...I want

to be a mom, myself but I fear that living with this my whole life has left too

many fleas on me...I've itched so much I've gaping infected wounds but with no

insurance to treat them. I get depressed (maybe the depression is resentment)

easily and jealous of people with loving moms when I see them out...I'm a mess

and it seems there's no way to move past this. I need advice!

>

[Guest guest]

Welcome!!! I think you are trauma bonded to her. Annie is our resident

trauma bonding expert, but basicially, it is Stolkholm syndrome. She was in

a way your " captor " and when she showed you the love you were desperate for

it made you much much closer to her than would have been true w/o the

trauma.

And second thing, you CANNOT stop her from killing herself. You don't have

that kind of power. None of us do. All you can do if she threatens is call

911 and give them the address. And after you do that once, she might just

stop doing it.

XOXOXOXO

> **

>

>

> Not confusing at all. My nada sounds a lot like yours. Lots of mysterious

> physical ailments that can't be nailed down or confirmed with tests, tons of

> medications, tons of drama. My nada's physical health has gone from being

> hypochondriacal symptoms in her head to REAL physical problems because she

> won't exercise, eats like crap, is totally overmedicated and drinks on top

> of it.

>

> I hate to sound pessimistic, but I think you'll find that hope of her

> " getting better " is futile. I still had those hopes when I started visiting

> this group a few years ago. Now I've come to the realization that she'll

> never get better, and in fact she's getting worse, and I've got to retrain

> myself when it comes to how I respond to her and deal with her. Most of us

> choose low or no contact.

>

> Good luck, and please post here when you need to. It's a great place to

> vent and ask for advice. I feel pretty grounded and sane today, but it only

> takes what I call an " ambush " phone call from my nada to completely knock me

> on my ass emotionally.

>

>

>

> >

> > Hey guys,

> >

> > I'm brand new here, and I'm desperate for some strategizing and help.

> First, I've read about nada and fada and fleas and think I gather what they

> are:) so I'll give this a shot.

> >

> > My nada, who's only just recently admitted she's got mental issues is

> very ill. She is only 55 years old (i'm 34) and somatacizes everything so

> her main focus these days is on physical diseases. I honestly feel that this

> focus on her body keeps her from acting out her bpd but it is equally

> manipulative, heartwrenching, guilt-inducing and sad. For example, everytime

> she tries to leave her fiance, she either gets violently ill or starts to

> hallucinate. She has been to the emergency room more times than I can count

> and for more things...she's always been riddled with " bizarre " physical

> symptoms that no one can figure out...foaming at the mouth, for example. She

> has mild emphysema, advanced osteoporosis, a pacemaker installed in her

> bladder, she is severely underweight bc she claims everything she eats makes

> her (imaginary) ulcers act up. She has recently developed asthma and claims

> she can't leave her house and had been driving everyone in her life mad bc

> of her new requirements. Her lung collapsed last week and she had to get

> some fibrosis removed and she sent me an email saying no one loves her or

> was thinking about her when she was in the hospital with a " midieval torture

> device jammed down her lung " , claiming that she was sparing me horrific

> details. She's like the woman who cried wolf so now that it's real (I still

> believe it's a passive suicide effort, to be honest) people don't know what

> to think. I do feel guilty, the lung collapse was real...what if she is just

> a physical mess? Anyway, she's on a cocktail of meds that are probably

> interacting like crazy and maybe making her more nuts so I feel like I'm in

> check mate.

> >

> > She no longer outright flips out on me bc she knows I won't take it

> anymore but she does pull very manipulative guilt tricks and twists what I

> say around to villainize me from afar when she has a flare up...we live on

> opposite sides of the country now. For example if I try to say something

> helpful in response to something negative she's got stuck in her head and

> keeps venting, she'll twist it around to be something manipulative and

> selfish and say I'm attacking her and that she was so distraught from me

> dwelling on the past (she was alternately abusive and charming when I grew

> up) and reminding her of what a terrible mother she was that she had to pray

> all night in order not to " disappear. " That's code word for " kill herself. "

> She's good at convincing her fiance that I'm the source of her terror and

> shame, but to her church friend she blames her fiance and his drinking...or

> my " bringing up the past " which I don't do but now I'm starting to want to!

> To her fiance's family she blames her doctors and hospitals for torturing

> her...it's always someone else. She has been diagnosed with schizoeffective

> but that doesn't explain the myriad classic textbook bpd symptoms I was

> raised by. Classic BPD...she even says she had no idea there was anything

> wrong with her until this year...in my mid twenties only did I become aware

> of the bpd symptoms i'd inherited and believe me, I've done everything in my

> power to outgrow them...some stick.

> >

> > It doesn't feel like I was raised by a person, just a confusing and scary

> puzzle with a sometimes magically angellic twist. I miss that angellic part,

> it was the only taste of love I ever got. And it keeps me optimistic that

> she can get better. Anyway, I'm all over the place here because well, this

> is a messy and unfair checkmate spot to be in. She doesn't know that I know

> she's threatened to gas herself (the person who told me begged me to keep

> confidential) many times this year, going into the garage and turning on the

> car and calling her fiance and telling him she's about to do it...she'd deny

> it up and down and then somehow accuse me of making her flip out if I were

> to bring it up...I've tried. The thing is, I've seen this stuff when I was

> young but when she'd snap out of it, she had no idea why i'd be upset or sad

> or confused and accuse me/my brother of being mentally ill.

> >

> > Gosh, I'm sorry for this rant maybe being confusing. I'm writing from my

> phone in bed. I'm so riddled with nerves and zaps and anger and frustration

> and deep hopelessness about this that I feel paralized. I'm so

> rollercoastered and fueled by rage and despair that I can't work at the

> moment, which isn't helping matters. I'm in therapy, I have minimized

> contact with her, etc., but she haunts me. I keep saying I'm in checkmate

> for a reason. I feel I cannot make any moves without being ousted, or her

> possibly being successful at killing herself and blaming me and family

> members blaming me, I fear breaking the tie will be too much because there

> are lovable parts to her and I don't want to kill those off and I've tried

> to seperate it all out to take the good and leave the bad but I can't make

> it work. I am desperate for surrogate parents and grandparents, for mentors

> in this world...people to laugh and cry and make memories with...I want to

> be a mom, myself but I fear that living with this my whole life has left too

> many fleas on me...I've itched so much I've gaping infected wounds but with

> no insurance to treat them. I get depressed (maybe the depression is

> resentment) easily and jealous of people with loving moms when I see them

> out...I'm a mess and it seems there's no way to move past this. I need

> advice!

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for all of your thoughtful replies! I didn't receive any email

notices that there were replies so I'm glad I logged in.

I am in therapy, and I do have some ptsd/bpd traits that I'm working on.

Stockholm Syndrome is right! I'm completely hooked by the " positive " side of her

who has given me some of the best, most seeming " wise " advice I'd ever received

- yet it always made my guts twist because I couldn't understand how someone so

wise could have such a mess of a life. If she was spiritual and loving, it's

like she has no memory of the other side, and if she's in a dark place it almost

seems she's possessed...and she believes she is, nowadays. She does have a

lovable side and I'd want my future children to know her but I'm so afraid of

the polarities that my guts twist and my brain explodes just thinking of her. I

don't know how to tell her I am going to have to minimize contact without

putting her in a worse depression than she's already in. I know she's severely

depressed and I feel like this is kicking her while she's down...and when I've

been depressed and isolated I always yearned and prayed that someone see me

through it. I made a pact with myself that I'd be there for others through thick

and thin because I know that's what I've needed in the past, someone not to be

afraid of my pain but I'm just so burned out that I keep feeling rage toward her

at the smallest thing...I do act just like a battered wife... " but there's so

much that I love about her...she's just suffering...she needs me... " but she's

my blood. And those three things are really true. She's out of control and now

she knows it but I can't for some reason wrap my head around why if she knows it

doesn't she make better decisions. It's like watching an addiction play

out...codependency/love addiction with her man and dependence on " physical

illness " to buy her time, pity, and space. It's just so sad.

Thanks again for the wonderful feedback. Is there truly a way to lovingly tell

her I need space? I feel like I'm inheriting her BPD the more I try to figure

her out to help her. It's like my addiction. I have lost so much of my life

worrying about her, missing her, trying to help her, trying to get space from

her...

> >

> > Hey guys,

> >

> > I'm brand new here, and I'm desperate for some strategizing and help. First,

I've read about nada and fada and fleas and think I gather what they are:) so

I'll give this a shot.

> >

> > My nada, who's only just recently admitted she's got mental issues is very

ill. She is only 55 years old (i'm 34) and somatacizes everything so her main

focus these days is on physical diseases. I honestly feel that this focus on her

body keeps her from acting out her bpd but it is equally manipulative,

heartwrenching, guilt-inducing and sad. For example, everytime she tries to

leave her fiance, she either gets violently ill or starts to hallucinate. She

has been to the emergency room more times than I can count and for more

things...she's always been riddled with " bizarre " physical symptoms that no one

can figure out...foaming at the mouth, for example. She has mild emphysema,

advanced osteoporosis, a pacemaker installed in her bladder, she is severely

underweight bc she claims everything she eats makes her (imaginary) ulcers act

up. She has recently developed asthma and claims she can't leave her house and

had been driving everyone in her life mad bc of her new requirements. Her lung

collapsed last week and she had to get some fibrosis removed and she sent me an

email saying no one loves her or was thinking about her when she was in the

hospital with a " midieval torture device jammed down her lung " , claiming that

she was sparing me horrific details. She's like the woman who cried wolf so now

that it's real (I still believe it's a passive suicide effort, to be honest)

people don't know what to think. I do feel guilty, the lung collapse was

real...what if she is just a physical mess? Anyway, she's on a cocktail of meds

that are probably interacting like crazy and maybe making her more nuts so I

feel like I'm in check mate.

> >

> > She no longer outright flips out on me bc she knows I won't take it anymore

but she does pull very manipulative guilt tricks and twists what I say around to

villainize me from afar when she has a flare up...we live on opposite sides of

the country now. For example if I try to say something helpful in response to

something negative she's got stuck in her head and keeps venting, she'll twist

it around to be something manipulative and selfish and say I'm attacking her and

that she was so distraught from me dwelling on the past (she was alternately

abusive and charming when I grew up) and reminding her of what a terrible mother

she was that she had to pray all night in order not to " disappear. " That's code

word for " kill herself. " She's good at convincing her fiance that I'm the source

of her terror and shame, but to her church friend she blames her fiance and his

drinking...or my " bringing up the past " which I don't do but now I'm starting to

want to! To her fiance's family she blames her doctors and hospitals for

torturing her...it's always someone else. She has been diagnosed with

schizoeffective but that doesn't explain the myriad classic textbook bpd

symptoms I was raised by. Classic BPD...she even says she had no idea there was

anything wrong with her until this year...in my mid twenties only did I become

aware of the bpd symptoms i'd inherited and believe me, I've done everything in

my power to outgrow them...some stick.

> >

> > It doesn't feel like I was raised by a person, just a confusing and scary

puzzle with a sometimes magically angellic twist. I miss that angellic part, it

was the only taste of love I ever got. And it keeps me optimistic that she can

get better. Anyway, I'm all over the place here because well, this is a messy

and unfair checkmate spot to be in. She doesn't know that I know she's

threatened to gas herself (the person who told me begged me to keep

confidential) many times this year, going into the garage and turning on the car

and calling her fiance and telling him she's about to do it...she'd deny it up

and down and then somehow accuse me of making her flip out if I were to bring it

up...I've tried. The thing is, I've seen this stuff when I was young but when

she'd snap out of it, she had no idea why i'd be upset or sad or confused and

accuse me/my brother of being mentally ill.

> >

> > Gosh, I'm sorry for this rant maybe being confusing. I'm writing from my

phone in bed. I'm so riddled with nerves and zaps and anger and frustration and

deep hopelessness about this that I feel paralized. I'm so rollercoastered and

fueled by rage and despair that I can't work at the moment, which isn't helping

matters. I'm in therapy, I have minimized contact with her, etc., but she haunts

me. I keep saying I'm in checkmate for a reason. I feel I cannot make any moves

without being ousted, or her possibly being successful at killing herself and

blaming me and family members blaming me, I fear breaking the tie will be too

much because there are lovable parts to her and I don't want to kill those off

and I've tried to seperate it all out to take the good and leave the bad but I

can't make it work. I am desperate for surrogate parents and grandparents, for

mentors in this world...people to laugh and cry and make memories with...I want

to be a mom, myself but I fear that living with this my whole life has left too

many fleas on me...I've itched so much I've gaping infected wounds but with no

insurance to treat them. I get depressed (maybe the depression is resentment)

easily and jealous of people with loving moms when I see them out...I'm a mess

and it seems there's no way to move past this. I need advice!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You are the only one who can decide what is the best course of action for you;

its very individual, because we each have our own unique relationship dynamic

with our pd parent or parents.

All I can offer you is that in my opinion its OK to protect yourself and your

own mental health if you are in a weak, vulnerable or exhausted place from

trying to parent your mother.

There is nothing morally or ethically wrong about taking a " break " from a

relationship with a fellow adult (including one's parents) when you need to.

If your mother were mentally healthy she would not dream of causing you to

become ill yourself over her, she would shield you from problems she's having

in her own life and deal with them herself like a rational, responsible adult;

that's what normal, mentally healthy, caring, empathetic parents do, at least,

that's my observation concerning friends I have who are parents.

I personally see nothing wrong with saying something like, " I'm sorry mother but

I'm ill from stress, I need a rest, and I need to get my stamina back, so I

won't be in contact with you for a while. I need to take care of my own health

now. I'll let you know when I am well enough to get back in touch with you.

Thanks for understanding. "

But that's me; you have the right and the power to decide what will work for

you.

-Annie

> > >

> > > Hey guys,

> > >

> > > I'm brand new here, and I'm desperate for some strategizing and help.

First, I've read about nada and fada and fleas and think I gather what they

are:) so I'll give this a shot.

> > >

> > > My nada, who's only just recently admitted she's got mental issues is very

ill. She is only 55 years old (i'm 34) and somatacizes everything so her main

focus these days is on physical diseases. I honestly feel that this focus on her

body keeps her from acting out her bpd but it is equally manipulative,

heartwrenching, guilt-inducing and sad. For example, everytime she tries to

leave her fiance, she either gets violently ill or starts to hallucinate. She

has been to the emergency room more times than I can count and for more

things...she's always been riddled with " bizarre " physical symptoms that no one

can figure out...foaming at the mouth, for example. She has mild emphysema,

advanced osteoporosis, a pacemaker installed in her bladder, she is severely

underweight bc she claims everything she eats makes her (imaginary) ulcers act

up. She has recently developed asthma and claims she can't leave her house and

had been driving everyone in her life mad bc of her new requirements. Her lung

collapsed last week and she had to get some fibrosis removed and she sent me an

email saying no one loves her or was thinking about her when she was in the

hospital with a " midieval torture device jammed down her lung " , claiming that

she was sparing me horrific details. She's like the woman who cried wolf so now

that it's real (I still believe it's a passive suicide effort, to be honest)

people don't know what to think. I do feel guilty, the lung collapse was

real...what if she is just a physical mess? Anyway, she's on a cocktail of meds

that are probably interacting like crazy and maybe making her more nuts so I

feel like I'm in check mate.

> > >

> > > She no longer outright flips out on me bc she knows I won't take it

anymore but she does pull very manipulative guilt tricks and twists what I say

around to villainize me from afar when she has a flare up...we live on opposite

sides of the country now. For example if I try to say something helpful in

response to something negative she's got stuck in her head and keeps venting,

she'll twist it around to be something manipulative and selfish and say I'm

attacking her and that she was so distraught from me dwelling on the past (she

was alternately abusive and charming when I grew up) and reminding her of what a

terrible mother she was that she had to pray all night in order not to

" disappear. " That's code word for " kill herself. " She's good at convincing her

fiance that I'm the source of her terror and shame, but to her church friend she

blames her fiance and his drinking...or my " bringing up the past " which I don't

do but now I'm starting to want to! To her fiance's family she blames her

doctors and hospitals for torturing her...it's always someone else. She has been

diagnosed with schizoeffective but that doesn't explain the myriad classic

textbook bpd symptoms I was raised by. Classic BPD...she even says she had no

idea there was anything wrong with her until this year...in my mid twenties only

did I become aware of the bpd symptoms i'd inherited and believe me, I've done

everything in my power to outgrow them...some stick.

> > >

> > > It doesn't feel like I was raised by a person, just a confusing and scary

puzzle with a sometimes magically angellic twist. I miss that angellic part, it

was the only taste of love I ever got. And it keeps me optimistic that she can

get better. Anyway, I'm all over the place here because well, this is a messy

and unfair checkmate spot to be in. She doesn't know that I know she's

threatened to gas herself (the person who told me begged me to keep

confidential) many times this year, going into the garage and turning on the car

and calling her fiance and telling him she's about to do it...she'd deny it up

and down and then somehow accuse me of making her flip out if I were to bring it

up...I've tried. The thing is, I've seen this stuff when I was young but when

she'd snap out of it, she had no idea why i'd be upset or sad or confused and

accuse me/my brother of being mentally ill.

> > >

> > > Gosh, I'm sorry for this rant maybe being confusing. I'm writing from my

phone in bed. I'm so riddled with nerves and zaps and anger and frustration and

deep hopelessness about this that I feel paralized. I'm so rollercoastered and

fueled by rage and despair that I can't work at the moment, which isn't helping

matters. I'm in therapy, I have minimized contact with her, etc., but she haunts

me. I keep saying I'm in checkmate for a reason. I feel I cannot make any moves

without being ousted, or her possibly being successful at killing herself and

blaming me and family members blaming me, I fear breaking the tie will be too

much because there are lovable parts to her and I don't want to kill those off

and I've tried to seperate it all out to take the good and leave the bad but I

can't make it work. I am desperate for surrogate parents and grandparents, for

mentors in this world...people to laugh and cry and make memories with...I want

to be a mom, myself but I fear that living with this my whole life has left too

many fleas on me...I've itched so much I've gaping infected wounds but with no

insurance to treat them. I get depressed (maybe the depression is resentment)

easily and jealous of people with loving moms when I see them out...I'm a mess

and it seems there's no way to move past this. I need advice!

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You ask if there is a way to lovingly tell her you need space.

The problem is that it isn't going to matter how you tell her,

it is going to upset her if you don't do what she wants. If she

reacts badly, that doesn't mean you are unloving or wrong to

need some time away from her. At some point you have to start

protecting and taking care of yourself (and your children when

you have them) rather than worrying about what she wants.

Nothing you do is going to change the fact that she has BPD.

Nothing you do is going to make her happy or stop her from

suffering from what goes on in her own head. If she is depressed

or suicidal, it isn't your fault. No matter what she says about

it, you don't have that kind of power over her. Accepting those

things can be very hard though.

Sometimes the best thing you can do for a parent with BPD is

remove yourself from their daily life. With normal people, being

there for them when they're emotionally upset or depressed can

be a lot of help. With someone who has BPD, being there can make

you a focus for their unhealthy, abnormal emotions. Rather than

making things better for them, that can make them worse.

Everyone's situation is different and the same things don't work

for all of us. There is middle ground between putting up with

whatever she chooses to say and do and totally cutting off

contact. You can choose how much you want to see and talk to

her. If you decide to lower the amount of contact you have with

her, you don't necessarily have to directly tell her that's what

you're doing. You can start by answering her calls less often or

by cutting calls short when she starts getting abusive towards

you. You're an adult. You don't owe her any explanation if you

choose not to answer a call and it is okay to end a call with " I

have to go now. I have other plans. "

At 11:42 AM 10/25/2011 imtypingtaptap wrote:

>Thank you so much for all of your thoughtful replies! I didn't

>receive any email notices that there were replies so I'm glad I

>logged in.

>

>I am in therapy, and I do have some ptsd/bpd traits that I'm

>working on. Stockholm Syndrome is right! I'm completely hooked

>by the " positive " side of her who has given me some of the

>best, most seeming " wise " advice I'd ever received - yet it

>always made my guts twist because I couldn't understand how

>someone so wise could have such a mess of a life. If she was

>spiritual and loving, it's like she has no memory of the other

>side, and if she's in a dark place it almost seems she's

>possessed...and she believes she is, nowadays. She does have a

>lovable side and I'd want my future children to know her but

>I'm so afraid of the polarities that my guts twist and my brain

>explodes just thinking of her. I don't know how to tell her I

>am going to have to minimize contact without putting her in a

>worse depression than she's already in. I know she's severely

>depressed and I feel like this is kicking her while she's

>down...and when I've been depressed and isolated I always

>yearned and prayed that someone see me through it. I made a

>pact with myself that I'd be there for others through thick and

>thin because I know that's what I've needed in the past,

>someone not to be afraid of my pain but I'm just so burned out

>that I keep feeling rage toward her at the smallest thing...I

>do act just like a battered wife... " but there's so much that I

>love about her...she's just suffering...she needs me... " but

>she's my blood. And those three things are really true. She's

>out of control and now she knows it but I can't for some reason

>wrap my head around why if she knows it doesn't she make better

>decisions. It's like watching an addiction play

>out...codependency/love addiction with her man and dependence

>on " physical illness " to buy her time, pity, and space. It's

>just so sad.

>

>Thanks again for the wonderful feedback. Is there truly a way

>to lovingly tell her I need space? I feel like I'm inheriting

>her BPD the more I try to figure her out to help her. It's like

>my addiction. I have lost so much of my life worrying about

>her, missing her, trying to help her, trying to get space from

>her...

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Hey sweetie, can you pick up the book Safe People? And also read about

dysfunctional family roles. It sounds to me like you are the Hero/Caregiver.

XOXO

> **

>

>

> You ask if there is a way to lovingly tell her you need space.

> The problem is that it isn't going to matter how you tell her,

> it is going to upset her if you don't do what she wants. If she

> reacts badly, that doesn't mean you are unloving or wrong to

> need some time away from her. At some point you have to start

> protecting and taking care of yourself (and your children when

> you have them) rather than worrying about what she wants.

> Nothing you do is going to change the fact that she has BPD.

> Nothing you do is going to make her happy or stop her from

> suffering from what goes on in her own head. If she is depressed

> or suicidal, it isn't your fault. No matter what she says about

> it, you don't have that kind of power over her. Accepting those

> things can be very hard though.

>

> Sometimes the best thing you can do for a parent with BPD is

> remove yourself from their daily life. With normal people, being

> there for them when they're emotionally upset or depressed can

> be a lot of help. With someone who has BPD, being there can make

> you a focus for their unhealthy, abnormal emotions. Rather than

> making things better for them, that can make them worse.

>

> Everyone's situation is different and the same things don't work

> for all of us. There is middle ground between putting up with

> whatever she chooses to say and do and totally cutting off

> contact. You can choose how much you want to see and talk to

> her. If you decide to lower the amount of contact you have with

> her, you don't necessarily have to directly tell her that's what

> you're doing. You can start by answering her calls less often or

> by cutting calls short when she starts getting abusive towards

> you. You're an adult. You don't owe her any explanation if you

> choose not to answer a call and it is okay to end a call with " I

> have to go now. I have other plans. "

>

>

> At 11:42 AM 10/25/2011 imtypingtaptap wrote:

> >Thank you so much for all of your thoughtful replies! I didn't

> >receive any email notices that there were replies so I'm glad I

> >logged in.

> >

> >I am in therapy, and I do have some ptsd/bpd traits that I'm

> >working on. Stockholm Syndrome is right! I'm completely hooked

> >by the " positive " side of her who has given me some of the

> >best, most seeming " wise " advice I'd ever received - yet it

> >always made my guts twist because I couldn't understand how

> >someone so wise could have such a mess of a life. If she was

> >spiritual and loving, it's like she has no memory of the other

> >side, and if she's in a dark place it almost seems she's

> >possessed...and she believes she is, nowadays. She does have a

> >lovable side and I'd want my future children to know her but

> >I'm so afraid of the polarities that my guts twist and my brain

> >explodes just thinking of her. I don't know how to tell her I

> >am going to have to minimize contact without putting her in a

> >worse depression than she's already in. I know she's severely

> >depressed and I feel like this is kicking her while she's

> >down...and when I've been depressed and isolated I always

> >yearned and prayed that someone see me through it. I made a

> >pact with myself that I'd be there for others through thick and

> >thin because I know that's what I've needed in the past,

> >someone not to be afraid of my pain but I'm just so burned out

> >that I keep feeling rage toward her at the smallest thing...I

> >do act just like a battered wife... " but there's so much that I

> >love about her...she's just suffering...she needs me... " but

> >she's my blood. And those three things are really true. She's

> >out of control and now she knows it but I can't for some reason

> >wrap my head around why if she knows it doesn't she make better

> >decisions. It's like watching an addiction play

> >out...codependency/love addiction with her man and dependence

> >on " physical illness " to buy her time, pity, and space. It's

> >just so sad.

> >

> >Thanks again for the wonderful feedback. Is there truly a way

> >to lovingly tell her I need space? I feel like I'm inheriting

> >her BPD the more I try to figure her out to help her. It's like

> >my addiction. I have lost so much of my life worrying about

> >her, missing her, trying to help her, trying to get space from

> >her...

>

> --

> Katrina

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi guys,

Thank you so much for your thoughtful replies. I am really so surprised that

you've read such long rambles. Thank you. I hope to be able to read some of

these messages and to start giving back. I just some decompression and

sanity-building time:)

She called today, hysterically suicidal about something someone said about " not

being able to get a word in edgewise. " This was really a giveaway about the

level of her suffering. Most family members would maybe chuckle about this and

perhaps say, " yeah maybe I babble a little... " but lo. Because (maybe because

I've absorbed her pains) I've felt a lot of the isolation and abandonment (from

her) stuff, I can empathize with her pain, hence Stockholm. But yes, I'm going

to practice better boundaries. I think I am making life harder for her, or at

least enabling her. But right now....boundaries or not, I'm haunted by her

pains.

Gosh this is hard. Thank you for this site and such determined and resilient

kin!

Sara

> > >Thank you so much for all of your thoughtful replies! I didn't

> > >receive any email notices that there were replies so I'm glad I

> > >logged in.

> > >

> > >I am in therapy, and I do have some ptsd/bpd traits that I'm

> > >working on. Stockholm Syndrome is right! I'm completely hooked

> > >by the " positive " side of her who has given me some of the

> > >best, most seeming " wise " advice I'd ever received - yet it

> > >always made my guts twist because I couldn't understand how

> > >someone so wise could have such a mess of a life. If she was

> > >spiritual and loving, it's like she has no memory of the other

> > >side, and if she's in a dark place it almost seems she's

> > >possessed...and she believes she is, nowadays. She does have a

> > >lovable side and I'd want my future children to know her but

> > >I'm so afraid of the polarities that my guts twist and my brain

> > >explodes just thinking of her. I don't know how to tell her I

> > >am going to have to minimize contact without putting her in a

> > >worse depression than she's already in. I know she's severely

> > >depressed and I feel like this is kicking her while she's

> > >down...and when I've been depressed and isolated I always

> > >yearned and prayed that someone see me through it. I made a

> > >pact with myself that I'd be there for others through thick and

> > >thin because I know that's what I've needed in the past,

> > >someone not to be afraid of my pain but I'm just so burned out

> > >that I keep feeling rage toward her at the smallest thing...I

> > >do act just like a battered wife... " but there's so much that I

> > >love about her...she's just suffering...she needs me... " but

> > >she's my blood. And those three things are really true. She's

> > >out of control and now she knows it but I can't for some reason

> > >wrap my head around why if she knows it doesn't she make better

> > >decisions. It's like watching an addiction play

> > >out...codependency/love addiction with her man and dependence

> > >on " physical illness " to buy her time, pity, and space. It's

> > >just so sad.

> > >

> > >Thanks again for the wonderful feedback. Is there truly a way

> > >to lovingly tell her I need space? I feel like I'm inheriting

> > >her BPD the more I try to figure her out to help her. It's like

> > >my addiction. I have lost so much of my life worrying about

> > >her, missing her, trying to help her, trying to get space from

> > >her...

> >

> > --

> > Katrina

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>