New to the group and to BPD discovery

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone, I'm new to this group and new to BPD. Well, not really new to it

per se because I have lived with it in my family my entire life. My father was

diagnosed with BPD a couple of years ago, and I am just now becoming aware of

the damage in our family due to his destructive behavior over the years. I have

been busy changing my life after a divorce and going back to school to start a

new career so I really haven't taken the time to reflect on this

diagnosis...until now.

Two weeks ago an episode occurred and I verbally made my stand to step off the

crazy-go-round. I have said outloud to my mother what my sister and brothers

have been saying for years to one another. Of course that has had a huge

consequence and impact. I am worried about her but at the same time I need to

stay away. She is and has been my father's biggest enabler in 'normalizing' his

distorted reality and methods of destruction and she can't even see it. She

refuses to believe her children when we have interactions with him and then he

goes home to her with very different stories. Of course none of the stories make

us look good, just him and the stories always piss her off. (I beleive he also

has a narcisstic component to his disorder as well.) She then takes it from

there calls us and proceeds to fiercly defends him and, as crazy as this sounds,

tries to get us to beleive what he says happened instead of what we actually

experienced. Is that what they mean when they talk about being in " Oz? " LOL!

So as I said earlier, two weeks ago an event happened that was between my

brother and my father except I got blamed for it. Long story but trust me I was

not to blame but my father found it easy to distort things I said and throw me

in the mix. Anything to keep the blame off of him! My mother then called me

trying to get me to take the blame and protect my father's story. I refused and

the phone conversation ended with me screaming at her not to call me. I have

never done that before. Typically I find a way to calm her down, but this time

the distortions she was trying to get me to buy into were too blatant and I lost

it. I have not received any word from her but have recieved a few texts from my

father telling me he doesn't understand why I am so angry. Honestly, where do I

begin?

I am 47 yrs old. The oldest of the 4 kids and now 3 of us have separated

ourselves from the family because of my father's behavior. I am just now truly

seeing him as a very sick man. He controls and manipulates, distorts and lies,

and his arrogance is unbearable. But, I have always put that aside because after

all he is my father. Well, I can't put his behavior aside any more. I have spent

my entire life trying to find a way to connect with him, to have some kind of a

relationship with him. After this last episode where he " threw me under the bus "

(and my mother is trying to hold me under it!) I am realizing it can't be done.

He is not capable. Now I am wondering if it is possible to have a decent

relationship with my mother as well.

So now I am looking and listening very closley to information about BPD. I am

relating a lot to stories posted here and understanding even more but see a very

long road ahead. My mother has used us over our entire adult lives to vent and

rant about his horrible treatment towards her, but as soon as we have anything

bad to say about him in return she defends him. Crazy denial and emotional

abuse. I feel horrible about separating myself but I just can't take it any

more. I have reached my limit of listening to my mother rant about him and then

shut me down when it's my turn. The narrow thread of a relationship I tried to

have with my father has been sheared clean away. I have nothing left for them.

It makes me very sad because they are getting older, and as a nurse, I had

looked forward to helping them in their old age. Now, for the sake of my own

sanity I just don't see that as possible.

Thanks for listening

Elaine

[Guest guest]

Elaine,

It is hard when you first see the light and realize that your

parent is mentally ill and that nothing you do is going to make

that go away. It sounds like your mother is very enmeshed with

your father and unwilling to see the light. Being enmeshed with

someone with BPD is very much like having a mental illness

yourself. It makes you act in ways that aren't rational. If

she's put up with the situation for this long, she's probably

never going to change for the better. If you cut off your

relationship with a parent who has BPD, it is hard to have a

relationship with anyone else who is still enmeshed. The closer

the relationship between them, the harder it is. You might be

able to do it if you maintain really firm boundaries with your

mother and get her to agree that you're not going to talk about

your father. If you try it, I think you should assume that she

will report anything you say to her back to him and that he will

try to use it against you.

At 08:26 PM 10/25/2011 efournierlemay wrote:

>Hi everyone, I'm new to this group and new to BPD. Well, not

>really new to it per se because I have lived with it in my

>family my entire life. My father was diagnosed with BPD a

>couple of years ago, and I am just now becoming aware of the

>damage in our family due to his destructive behavior over the

>years. I have been busy changing my life after a divorce and

>going back to school to start a new career so I really haven't

>taken the time to reflect on this diagnosis...until now.

>

>Two weeks ago an episode occurred and I verbally made my stand

>to step off the crazy-go-round. I have said outloud to my

>mother what my sister and brothers have been saying for years

>to one another. Of course that has had a huge consequence and

>impact. I am worried about her but at the same time I need to

>stay away. She is and has been my father's biggest enabler in

>'normalizing' his distorted reality and methods of destruction

>and she can't even see it. She refuses to believe her children

>when we have interactions with him and then he goes home to her

>with very different stories. Of course none of the stories make

>us look good, just him and the stories always piss her off. (I

>beleive he also has a narcisstic component to his disorder as

>well.) She then takes it from there calls us and proceeds to

>fiercly defends him and, as crazy as this sounds, tries to get

>us to beleive what he says happened instead of what we actually

>experienced. Is that what they mean when they talk about being

>in " Oz? " LOL!

>

>So as I said earlier, two weeks ago an event happened that was

>between my brother and my father except I got blamed for it.

>Long story but trust me I was not to blame but my father found

>it easy to distort things I said and throw me in the mix.

>Anything to keep the blame off of him! My mother then called me

>trying to get me to take the blame and protect my father's

>story. I refused and the phone conversation ended with me

>screaming at her not to call me. I have never done that before.

>Typically I find a way to calm her down, but this time the

>distortions she was trying to get me to buy into were too

>blatant and I lost it. I have not received any word from her

>but have recieved a few texts from my father telling me he

>doesn't understand why I am so angry. Honestly, where do I

>begin?

>

>I am 47 yrs old. The oldest of the 4 kids and now 3 of us have

>separated ourselves from the family because of my father's

>behavior. I am just now truly seeing him as a very sick man. He

>controls and manipulates, distorts and lies, and his arrogance

>is unbearable. But, I have always put that aside because after

>all he is my father. Well, I can't put his behavior aside any

>more. I have spent my entire life trying to find a way to

>connect with him, to have some kind of a relationship with him.

>After this last episode where he " threw me under the bus " (and

>my mother is trying to hold me under it!) I am realizing it

>can't be done. He is not capable. Now I am wondering if it is

>possible to have a decent relationship with my mother as well.

>

>So now I am looking and listening very closley to information

>about BPD. I am relating a lot to stories posted here and

>understanding even more but see a very long road ahead. My

>mother has used us over our entire adult lives to vent and rant

>about his horrible treatment towards her, but as soon as we

>have anything bad to say about him in return she defends him.

>Crazy denial and emotional abuse. I feel horrible about

>separating myself but I just can't take it any more. I have

>reached my limit of listening to my mother rant about him and

>then shut me down when it's my turn. The narrow thread of a

>relationship I tried to have with my father has been sheared

>clean away. I have nothing left for them. It makes me very sad

>because they are getting older, and as a nurse, I had looked

>forward to helping them in their old age. Now, for the sake of

>my own sanity I just don't see that as possible.

>

>Thanks for listening

>Elaine

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

WOW..I am recently going through the same thing.... This is with my mother.

Everything you wrote is how I feel. I have had to separate myself from her b/c

her behavior had put my three kid's safety at risk. And I have put up

with/tolerated for many years... But this time she crossed the line with my

kids. I am learning to see her as sick, but I am having anxiety over this issue

with my kids and I get mad thinking she gets the sick card. How are you coping

and moving on??HAve you confronted your dad?? The counselor told me that I

should tell my mom until she gets help, she can not be around my children... But

If I were to tell her that...OMG she would expolode!!

HELP, new daughter in crisis!!

laura

> >Hi everyone, I'm new to this group and new to BPD. Well, not

> >really new to it per se because I have lived with it in my

> >family my entire life. My father was diagnosed with BPD a

> >couple of years ago, and I am just now becoming aware of the

> >damage in our family due to his destructive behavior over the

> >years. I have been busy changing my life after a divorce and

> >going back to school to start a new career so I really haven't

> >taken the time to reflect on this diagnosis...until now.

> >

> >Two weeks ago an episode occurred and I verbally made my stand

> >to step off the crazy-go-round. I have said outloud to my

> >mother what my sister and brothers have been saying for years

> >to one another. Of course that has had a huge consequence and

> >impact. I am worried about her but at the same time I need to

> >stay away. She is and has been my father's biggest enabler in

> >'normalizing' his distorted reality and methods of destruction

> >and she can't even see it. She refuses to believe her children

> >when we have interactions with him and then he goes home to her

> >with very different stories. Of course none of the stories make

> >us look good, just him and the stories always piss her off. (I

> >beleive he also has a narcisstic component to his disorder as

> >well.) She then takes it from there calls us and proceeds to

> >fiercly defends him and, as crazy as this sounds, tries to get

> >us to beleive what he says happened instead of what we actually

> >experienced. Is that what they mean when they talk about being

> >in " Oz? " LOL!

> >

> >So as I said earlier, two weeks ago an event happened that was

> >between my brother and my father except I got blamed for it.

> >Long story but trust me I was not to blame but my father found

> >it easy to distort things I said and throw me in the mix.

> >Anything to keep the blame off of him! My mother then called me

> >trying to get me to take the blame and protect my father's

> >story. I refused and the phone conversation ended with me

> >screaming at her not to call me. I have never done that before.

> >Typically I find a way to calm her down, but this time the

> >distortions she was trying to get me to buy into were too

> >blatant and I lost it. I have not received any word from her

> >but have recieved a few texts from my father telling me he

> >doesn't understand why I am so angry. Honestly, where do I

> >begin?

> >

> >I am 47 yrs old. The oldest of the 4 kids and now 3 of us have

> >separated ourselves from the family because of my father's

> >behavior. I am just now truly seeing him as a very sick man. He

> >controls and manipulates, distorts and lies, and his arrogance

> >is unbearable. But, I have always put that aside because after

> >all he is my father. Well, I can't put his behavior aside any

> >more. I have spent my entire life trying to find a way to

> >connect with him, to have some kind of a relationship with him.

> >After this last episode where he " threw me under the bus " (and

> >my mother is trying to hold me under it!) I am realizing it

> >can't be done. He is not capable. Now I am wondering if it is

> >possible to have a decent relationship with my mother as well.

> >

> >So now I am looking and listening very closley to information

> >about BPD. I am relating a lot to stories posted here and

> >understanding even more but see a very long road ahead. My

> >mother has used us over our entire adult lives to vent and rant

> >about his horrible treatment towards her, but as soon as we

> >have anything bad to say about him in return she defends him.

> >Crazy denial and emotional abuse. I feel horrible about

> >separating myself but I just can't take it any more. I have

> >reached my limit of listening to my mother rant about him and

> >then shut me down when it's my turn. The narrow thread of a

> >relationship I tried to have with my father has been sheared

> >clean away. I have nothing left for them. It makes me very sad

> >because they are getting older, and as a nurse, I had looked

> >forward to helping them in their old age. Now, for the sake of

> >my own sanity I just don't see that as possible.

> >

> >Thanks for listening

> >Elaine

> >

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

Do you know my parents?! Wow. When you said " I think you should assume that she

will report anything you say to her back to him and that he will try to use it

against you. " you totally nailed it on the head. Enmeshed is the the word for

sure and I beleive you are right, that she may never change for the better. I

think that is the next thing I need to work on my acceptance about. What keeps

me confused about her is that she will one minute be very clear about how

unacceptable his behavior is and set limits and then the next be defending him

and allowing the boundaries to be ignored.I am beginning to believe and see that

she is just as sick as he is. I can also see her health failing due to the

stress. It makes me sad, but it is her choice, in a way, to stay knowing he has

this disorder.

Thanks for responding Katrina. It's really good to know I am not crazy here and

that what I am seeing is in fact what is really happening. Sometimes I have to

double check! LOL.

> >Hi everyone, I'm new to this group and new to BPD. Well, not

> >really new to it per se because I have lived with it in my

> >family my entire life. My father was diagnosed with BPD a

> >couple of years ago, and I am just now becoming aware of the

> >damage in our family due to his destructive behavior over the

> >years. I have been busy changing my life after a divorce and

> >going back to school to start a new career so I really haven't

> >taken the time to reflect on this diagnosis...until now.

> >

> >Two weeks ago an episode occurred and I verbally made my stand

> >to step off the crazy-go-round. I have said outloud to my

> >mother what my sister and brothers have been saying for years

> >to one another. Of course that has had a huge consequence and

> >impact. I am worried about her but at the same time I need to

> >stay away. She is and has been my father's biggest enabler in

> >'normalizing' his distorted reality and methods of destruction

> >and she can't even see it. She refuses to believe her children

> >when we have interactions with him and then he goes home to her

> >with very different stories. Of course none of the stories make

> >us look good, just him and the stories always piss her off. (I

> >beleive he also has a narcisstic component to his disorder as

> >well.) She then takes it from there calls us and proceeds to

> >fiercly defends him and, as crazy as this sounds, tries to get

> >us to beleive what he says happened instead of what we actually

> >experienced. Is that what they mean when they talk about being

> >in " Oz? " LOL!

> >

> >So as I said earlier, two weeks ago an event happened that was

> >between my brother and my father except I got blamed for it.

> >Long story but trust me I was not to blame but my father found

> >it easy to distort things I said and throw me in the mix.

> >Anything to keep the blame off of him! My mother then called me

> >trying to get me to take the blame and protect my father's

> >story. I refused and the phone conversation ended with me

> >screaming at her not to call me. I have never done that before.

> >Typically I find a way to calm her down, but this time the

> >distortions she was trying to get me to buy into were too

> >blatant and I lost it. I have not received any word from her

> >but have recieved a few texts from my father telling me he

> >doesn't understand why I am so angry. Honestly, where do I

> >begin?

> >

> >I am 47 yrs old. The oldest of the 4 kids and now 3 of us have

> >separated ourselves from the family because of my father's

> >behavior. I am just now truly seeing him as a very sick man. He

> >controls and manipulates, distorts and lies, and his arrogance

> >is unbearable. But, I have always put that aside because after

> >all he is my father. Well, I can't put his behavior aside any

> >more. I have spent my entire life trying to find a way to

> >connect with him, to have some kind of a relationship with him.

> >After this last episode where he " threw me under the bus " (and

> >my mother is trying to hold me under it!) I am realizing it

> >can't be done. He is not capable. Now I am wondering if it is

> >possible to have a decent relationship with my mother as well.

> >

> >So now I am looking and listening very closley to information

> >about BPD. I am relating a lot to stories posted here and

> >understanding even more but see a very long road ahead. My

> >mother has used us over our entire adult lives to vent and rant

> >about his horrible treatment towards her, but as soon as we

> >have anything bad to say about him in return she defends him.

> >Crazy denial and emotional abuse. I feel horrible about

> >separating myself but I just can't take it any more. I have

> >reached my limit of listening to my mother rant about him and

> >then shut me down when it's my turn. The narrow thread of a

> >relationship I tried to have with my father has been sheared

> >clean away. I have nothing left for them. It makes me very sad

> >because they are getting older, and as a nurse, I had looked

> >forward to helping them in their old age. Now, for the sake of

> >my own sanity I just don't see that as possible.

> >

> >Thanks for listening

> >Elaine

> >

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

what if you don't " tell " her, you just do it? how long can you make excuses

last?

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 4:09 PM, lbmommyof3kids wrote:

> **

>

>

> WOW..I am recently going through the same thing.... This is with my mother.

> Everything you wrote is how I feel. I have had to separate myself from her

> b/c her behavior had put my three kid's safety at risk. And I have put up

> with/tolerated for many years... But this time she crossed the line with my

> kids. I am learning to see her as sick, but I am having anxiety over this

> issue with my kids and I get mad thinking she gets the sick card. How are

> you coping and moving on??HAve you confronted your dad?? The counselor told

> me that I should tell my mom until she gets help, she can not be around my

> children... But If I were to tell her that...OMG she would expolode!!

>

> HELP, new daughter in crisis!!

>

> laura

>

>

>

> > >Hi everyone, I'm new to this group and new to BPD. Well, not

> > >really new to it per se because I have lived with it in my

> > >family my entire life. My father was diagnosed with BPD a

> > >couple of years ago, and I am just now becoming aware of the

> > >damage in our family due to his destructive behavior over the

> > >years. I have been busy changing my life after a divorce and

> > >going back to school to start a new career so I really haven't

> > >taken the time to reflect on this diagnosis...until now.

> > >

> > >Two weeks ago an episode occurred and I verbally made my stand

> > >to step off the crazy-go-round. I have said outloud to my

> > >mother what my sister and brothers have been saying for years

> > >to one another. Of course that has had a huge consequence and

> > >impact. I am worried about her but at the same time I need to

> > >stay away. She is and has been my father's biggest enabler in

> > >'normalizing' his distorted reality and methods of destruction

> > >and she can't even see it. She refuses to believe her children

> > >when we have interactions with him and then he goes home to her

> > >with very different stories. Of course none of the stories make

> > >us look good, just him and the stories always piss her off. (I

> > >beleive he also has a narcisstic component to his disorder as

> > >well.) She then takes it from there calls us and proceeds to

> > >fiercly defends him and, as crazy as this sounds, tries to get

> > >us to beleive what he says happened instead of what we actually

> > >experienced. Is that what they mean when they talk about being

> > >in " Oz? " LOL!

> > >

> > >So as I said earlier, two weeks ago an event happened that was

> > >between my brother and my father except I got blamed for it.

> > >Long story but trust me I was not to blame but my father found

> > >it easy to distort things I said and throw me in the mix.

> > >Anything to keep the blame off of him! My mother then called me

> > >trying to get me to take the blame and protect my father's

> > >story. I refused and the phone conversation ended with me

> > >screaming at her not to call me. I have never done that before.

> > >Typically I find a way to calm her down, but this time the

> > >distortions she was trying to get me to buy into were too

> > >blatant and I lost it. I have not received any word from her

> > >but have recieved a few texts from my father telling me he

> > >doesn't understand why I am so angry. Honestly, where do I

> > >begin?

> > >

> > >I am 47 yrs old. The oldest of the 4 kids and now 3 of us have

> > >separated ourselves from the family because of my father's

> > >behavior. I am just now truly seeing him as a very sick man. He

> > >controls and manipulates, distorts and lies, and his arrogance

> > >is unbearable. But, I have always put that aside because after

> > >all he is my father. Well, I can't put his behavior aside any

> > >more. I have spent my entire life trying to find a way to

> > >connect with him, to have some kind of a relationship with him.

> > >After this last episode where he " threw me under the bus " (and

> > >my mother is trying to hold me under it!) I am realizing it

> > >can't be done. He is not capable. Now I am wondering if it is

> > >possible to have a decent relationship with my mother as well.

> > >

> > >So now I am looking and listening very closley to information

> > >about BPD. I am relating a lot to stories posted here and

> > >understanding even more but see a very long road ahead. My

> > >mother has used us over our entire adult lives to vent and rant

> > >about his horrible treatment towards her, but as soon as we

> > >have anything bad to say about him in return she defends him.

> > >Crazy denial and emotional abuse. I feel horrible about

> > >separating myself but I just can't take it any more. I have

> > >reached my limit of listening to my mother rant about him and

> > >then shut me down when it's my turn. The narrow thread of a

> > >relationship I tried to have with my father has been sheared

> > >clean away. I have nothing left for them. It makes me very sad

> > >because they are getting older, and as a nurse, I had looked

> > >forward to helping them in their old age. Now, for the sake of

> > >my own sanity I just don't see that as possible.

> > >

> > >Thanks for listening

> > >Elaine

> > >

> >

> > --

> > Katrina

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear lbmommy - In my opinion, the safety and sanity of our children is

non-negotiable. Nada may mess with me, but when she started in on my son, that

was the absolute end of it. I don't think you owe her any explanations, but

certainly having a set of handy excuses is helpful - there's no need to go

through a Nada blowup. It won't do her any good,and it make you miserable. So

- as far as my Nada knows, my son has been either camping, doing a school

project (at somebody else's house), or asleep for the past decade or so. Now

he's off at college, so that's easy - and Nada will NEVER have his cellphone

number. Like Harry Truman said, the buck stops here.

I would have loved for him to have a normal grandmother, but it just wasn't in

the cards. And I'd rather he grew up without a grandmother than have him

subjected to the mind-warping crap she put me through as a kid.

So I say, when it comes to your kids, never apologize, never cave in, never feel

a bit of guilt about it.

> > >Hi everyone, I'm new to this group and new to BPD. Well, not

> > >really new to it per se because I have lived with it in my

> > >family my entire life. My father was diagnosed with BPD a

> > >couple of years ago, and I am just now becoming aware of the

> > >damage in our family due to his destructive behavior over the

> > >years. I have been busy changing my life after a divorce and

> > >going back to school to start a new career so I really haven't

> > >taken the time to reflect on this diagnosis...until now.

> > >

> > >Two weeks ago an episode occurred and I verbally made my stand

> > >to step off the crazy-go-round. I have said outloud to my

> > >mother what my sister and brothers have been saying for years

> > >to one another. Of course that has had a huge consequence and

> > >impact. I am worried about her but at the same time I need to

> > >stay away. She is and has been my father's biggest enabler in

> > >'normalizing' his distorted reality and methods of destruction

> > >and she can't even see it. She refuses to believe her children

> > >when we have interactions with him and then he goes home to her

> > >with very different stories. Of course none of the stories make

> > >us look good, just him and the stories always piss her off. (I

> > >beleive he also has a narcisstic component to his disorder as

> > >well.) She then takes it from there calls us and proceeds to

> > >fiercly defends him and, as crazy as this sounds, tries to get

> > >us to beleive what he says happened instead of what we actually

> > >experienced. Is that what they mean when they talk about being

> > >in " Oz? " LOL!

> > >

> > >So as I said earlier, two weeks ago an event happened that was

> > >between my brother and my father except I got blamed for it.

> > >Long story but trust me I was not to blame but my father found

> > >it easy to distort things I said and throw me in the mix.

> > >Anything to keep the blame off of him! My mother then called me

> > >trying to get me to take the blame and protect my father's

> > >story. I refused and the phone conversation ended with me

> > >screaming at her not to call me. I have never done that before.

> > >Typically I find a way to calm her down, but this time the

> > >distortions she was trying to get me to buy into were too

> > >blatant and I lost it. I have not received any word from her

> > >but have recieved a few texts from my father telling me he

> > >doesn't understand why I am so angry. Honestly, where do I

> > >begin?

> > >

> > >I am 47 yrs old. The oldest of the 4 kids and now 3 of us have

> > >separated ourselves from the family because of my father's

> > >behavior. I am just now truly seeing him as a very sick man. He

> > >controls and manipulates, distorts and lies, and his arrogance

> > >is unbearable. But, I have always put that aside because after

> > >all he is my father. Well, I can't put his behavior aside any

> > >more. I have spent my entire life trying to find a way to

> > >connect with him, to have some kind of a relationship with him.

> > >After this last episode where he " threw me under the bus " (and

> > >my mother is trying to hold me under it!) I am realizing it

> > >can't be done. He is not capable. Now I am wondering if it is

> > >possible to have a decent relationship with my mother as well.

> > >

> > >So now I am looking and listening very closley to information

> > >about BPD. I am relating a lot to stories posted here and

> > >understanding even more but see a very long road ahead. My

> > >mother has used us over our entire adult lives to vent and rant

> > >about his horrible treatment towards her, but as soon as we

> > >have anything bad to say about him in return she defends him.

> > >Crazy denial and emotional abuse. I feel horrible about

> > >separating myself but I just can't take it any more. I have

> > >reached my limit of listening to my mother rant about him and

> > >then shut me down when it's my turn. The narrow thread of a

> > >relationship I tried to have with my father has been sheared

> > >clean away. I have nothing left for them. It makes me very sad

> > >because they are getting older, and as a nurse, I had looked

> > >forward to helping them in their old age. Now, for the sake of

> > >my own sanity I just don't see that as possible.

> > >

> > >Thanks for listening

> > >Elaine

> > >

> >

> > --

> > Katrina

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

I'm not sure how to move on. Because of this recent episode I have backed way

off and have not communicated much with them. I have tried to set boundaries

with both of them in the past. I, and my brother, have told them both to stop

talking to us about each other. We even went and spoke to their therapist about

it telling her to tell them too. They both just ignore the request. My mother

says we are adults now and should be able to handle it. I live in my

grandparents' house (they are still alive but living in a nursing home). My

father is the one who takes care of any repairs etc and I pay for all expenses

on the house including taxes and insurance in return. He feels he can come and

go from here without any notice to me. I recently discovered he was in the house

because I received the bill for the repair people. He admitted he was there with

them but refuses to acknowledge my need for notice. I have told him I need to be

told when and who he is coming here with, this is my home and I deserve that

respect. He refuses to acknowledge my request what-so-ever. I think I will be

changing the locks. This of course will send him through the ceiling. But him

coming and going without my consent is making me crazy. I'm not asking him to

stay out just asking for notice and he won't even give me that. When he acts

like that, he makes it VERY easy to keep my distance. The problem I have is that

he has treated my 11 yr old son very well. He actually has a decent relationship

with him playing golf, skiing and fishing. That is where I struggle. I don't

want to make my problems with my father my son's problem. Any advice on that?

> > >Hi everyone, I'm new to this group and new to BPD. Well, not

> > >really new to it per se because I have lived with it in my

> > >family my entire life. My father was diagnosed with BPD a

> > >couple of years ago, and I am just now becoming aware of the

> > >damage in our family due to his destructive behavior over the

> > >years. I have been busy changing my life after a divorce and

> > >going back to school to start a new career so I really haven't

> > >taken the time to reflect on this diagnosis...until now.

> > >

> > >Two weeks ago an episode occurred and I verbally made my stand

> > >to step off the crazy-go-round. I have said outloud to my

> > >mother what my sister and brothers have been saying for years

> > >to one another. Of course that has had a huge consequence and

> > >impact. I am worried about her but at the same time I need to

> > >stay away. She is and has been my father's biggest enabler in

> > >'normalizing' his distorted reality and methods of destruction

> > >and she can't even see it. She refuses to believe her children

> > >when we have interactions with him and then he goes home to her

> > >with very different stories. Of course none of the stories make

> > >us look good, just him and the stories always piss her off. (I

> > >beleive he also has a narcisstic component to his disorder as

> > >well.) She then takes it from there calls us and proceeds to

> > >fiercly defends him and, as crazy as this sounds, tries to get

> > >us to beleive what he says happened instead of what we actually

> > >experienced. Is that what they mean when they talk about being

> > >in " Oz? " LOL!

> > >

> > >So as I said earlier, two weeks ago an event happened that was

> > >between my brother and my father except I got blamed for it.

> > >Long story but trust me I was not to blame but my father found

> > >it easy to distort things I said and throw me in the mix.

> > >Anything to keep the blame off of him! My mother then called me

> > >trying to get me to take the blame and protect my father's

> > >story. I refused and the phone conversation ended with me

> > >screaming at her not to call me. I have never done that before.

> > >Typically I find a way to calm her down, but this time the

> > >distortions she was trying to get me to buy into were too

> > >blatant and I lost it. I have not received any word from her

> > >but have recieved a few texts from my father telling me he

> > >doesn't understand why I am so angry. Honestly, where do I

> > >begin?

> > >

> > >I am 47 yrs old. The oldest of the 4 kids and now 3 of us have

> > >separated ourselves from the family because of my father's

> > >behavior. I am just now truly seeing him as a very sick man. He

> > >controls and manipulates, distorts and lies, and his arrogance

> > >is unbearable. But, I have always put that aside because after

> > >all he is my father. Well, I can't put his behavior aside any

> > >more. I have spent my entire life trying to find a way to

> > >connect with him, to have some kind of a relationship with him.

> > >After this last episode where he " threw me under the bus " (and

> > >my mother is trying to hold me under it!) I am realizing it

> > >can't be done. He is not capable. Now I am wondering if it is

> > >possible to have a decent relationship with my mother as well.

> > >

> > >So now I am looking and listening very closley to information

> > >about BPD. I am relating a lot to stories posted here and

> > >understanding even more but see a very long road ahead. My

> > >mother has used us over our entire adult lives to vent and rant

> > >about his horrible treatment towards her, but as soon as we

> > >have anything bad to say about him in return she defends him.

> > >Crazy denial and emotional abuse. I feel horrible about

> > >separating myself but I just can't take it any more. I have

> > >reached my limit of listening to my mother rant about him and

> > >then shut me down when it's my turn. The narrow thread of a

> > >relationship I tried to have with my father has been sheared

> > >clean away. I have nothing left for them. It makes me very sad

> > >because they are getting older, and as a nurse, I had looked

> > >forward to helping them in their old age. Now, for the sake of

> > >my own sanity I just don't see that as possible.

> > >

> > >Thanks for listening

> > >Elaine

> > >

> >

> > --

> > Katrina

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi EF,

Welcome to the Group.

This situation with the house sounds kind of " enmeshy " and complicated to me;

I'm getting the impression that your grandparents actually own it, but you live

in it and are paying the equivalent of rent (your payment is used to pay the

property taxes and insurance) while your father pays for necessary maintenance

and repairs, or performs these services himself. I'm also getting the

impression that there is no formal rental agreement insuring that your rights as

a renter will be observed? I hope I'm wrong.

Its very, very difficult to set boundaries with personality-disordered

individuals if you are dependent on them in any way, such as being co-owners of

property or businesses with them, renting from them, etc. When you are entwined

with your personality-disordered parents financially, they can and probably will

use this as leverage to manipulate you, control you, extract " favors " from you

" to show your appreciation " , etc.

Is it possible for you to simply buy the house from your grandparents outright?

That would make the power dynamic much simpler.

As it is, its very fuzzy. Your father is behaving as though he is the owner of

the house, or, he is acting like he is your grandparents' agent, and he's

treating you as though he is generously " letting you " live in the house on his

dime, instead of recognizing that you are paying your own way as an equal and

responsible adult.

His behaviors reflect that he feels disrespect for you, in my opinion.

I am no financial advisor, but, you may want to consult with one about what is

in your own best interest regarding continuing to stay in a house where you are

paying a good portion of its upkeep without (I'm guessing) a formal rental

contract. You could be better off with a formal contract in a different house

where you are " renting to own " it, eventually.

I think it would be a good idea to find out what your rights are as a renter or

resident of the house before you change the locks, tempting as the idea is.

But without a formal rental contract, if you decide to change the locks you

could possibly find yourself ejected from the house with no notice, or something

equally unpleasant if your father is in fact legally your grandparents' agent

and he is the vindictive type.

So, to sum up, my suggestions are: find out what your rights as a renter are,

and consult with a financial advisor about rental contracts and renting to own,

which might be in your best interest. Disentangling yourself from any

dependence on your parents will give you equal footing with them so that you can

set rules and boundaries with them without fear of financial reprisal.

Just an idea to consider; each of us has to figure out what will work best for

us, individually, though, as there are different factors in each case to take

into account.

-Annie

>

> ,

> I'm not sure how to move on. Because of this recent episode I have backed way

off and have not communicated much with them. I have tried to set boundaries

with both of them in the past. I, and my brother, have told them both to stop

talking to us about each other. We even went and spoke to their therapist about

it telling her to tell them too. They both just ignore the request. My mother

says we are adults now and should be able to handle it. I live in my

grandparents' house (they are still alive but living in a nursing home). My

father is the one who takes care of any repairs etc and I pay for all expenses

on the house including taxes and insurance in return. He feels he can come and

go from here without any notice to me. I recently discovered he was in the house

because I received the bill for the repair people. He admitted he was there with

them but refuses to acknowledge my need for notice. I have told him I need to be

told when and who he is coming here with, this is my home and I deserve that

respect. He refuses to acknowledge my request what-so-ever. I think I will be

changing the locks. This of course will send him through the ceiling. But him

coming and going without my consent is making me crazy. I'm not asking him to

stay out just asking for notice and he won't even give me that. When he acts

like that, he makes it VERY easy to keep my distance. The problem I have is that

he has treated my 11 yr old son very well. He actually has a decent relationship

with him playing golf, skiing and fishing. That is where I struggle. I don't

want to make my problems with my father my son's problem. Any advice on that?

[Guest guest]

Hi Annie,

thanks for your thoughful response. Yes you are right about everything. It is

complicated and I am seeing how it is enmeshy too. I am just learning or

actually breaking through my own denial about my relationship with my BPD

father. Like I said this is my grandfather's he built it in 1950. While he and

my grandmother are still alive my father can't sell it. It is his inheritance

and somehow they have the house protected from being sold my grandparents are in

the nursing home. I moved in here 3 years ago because it seemed to be a perfect

opportunity. The house had been empty for a year and they were considering

having someone rent it. I was trying to find a way to afford to go back to

school and still support my son. This was it. I knew entering this 'agreement'

(like you assumed, there is no rental agreement or contract in place) that I was

putting myself in a tricky situation with him and my mother. I chose to move

forward with it because I needed this chance after struggling for way too many

years. It has paid off for me. I have a new career as a nurse and am able to

support my son extrememly well. But the payoff is having to deal with my father

and, as you clearly pointed out, his disrespect towards me. I was originally

considering buying this house after my grandparents pass but have decided

against it because I know my father's vindictiveness and he will totally screw

me over. So for now by living here I am able to save up for a downpayment on

purchasing my own place. I feel because there are no rental agreements in place

and since he won't respect my request to let me know before coming in the house

that I will need to change the locks and just deal with his anger over it. It

won't be pretty. I think before I do anything however I will see legal counsel,

just in case.

Elaine

> >

> > ,

> > I'm not sure how to move on. Because of this recent episode I have backed

way off and have not communicated much with them. I have tried to set boundaries

with both of them in the past. I, and my brother, have told them both to stop

talking to us about each other. We even went and spoke to their therapist about

it telling her to tell them too. They both just ignore the request. My mother

says we are adults now and should be able to handle it. I live in my

grandparents' house (they are still alive but living in a nursing home). My

father is the one who takes care of any repairs etc and I pay for all expenses

on the house including taxes and insurance in return. He feels he can come and

go from here without any notice to me. I recently discovered he was in the house

because I received the bill for the repair people. He admitted he was there with

them but refuses to acknowledge my need for notice. I have told him I need to be

told when and who he is coming here with, this is my home and I deserve that

respect. He refuses to acknowledge my request what-so-ever. I think I will be

changing the locks. This of course will send him through the ceiling. But him

coming and going without my consent is making me crazy. I'm not asking him to

stay out just asking for notice and he won't even give me that. When he acts

like that, he makes it VERY easy to keep my distance. The problem I have is that

he has treated my 11 yr old son very well. He actually has a decent relationship

with him playing golf, skiing and fishing. That is where I struggle. I don't

want to make my problems with my father my son's problem. Any advice on that?

>

[Guest guest]

I'm in almost the same situation with my nada.  And two weeks ago she went off

about something and threatened to sell the house out from under us which of

course, upsets my 7 year old.  What I've started doing is paring down expenses

and trying to pay myself what an average rent would be so I can have a decent

downpayment when the time comes.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 7:04 AM

Subject: Re: New to the group and to BPD discovery

 

Hi Annie,

thanks for your thoughful response. Yes you are right about everything. It is

complicated and I am seeing how it is enmeshy too. I am just learning or

actually breaking through my own denial about my relationship with my BPD

father. Like I said this is my grandfather's he built it in 1950. While he and

my grandmother are still alive my father can't sell it. It is his inheritance

and somehow they have the house protected from being sold my grandparents are in

the nursing home. I moved in here 3 years ago because it seemed to be a perfect

opportunity. The house had been empty for a year and they were considering

having someone rent it. I was trying to find a way to afford to go back to

school and still support my son. This was it. I knew entering this 'agreement'

(like you assumed, there is no rental agreement or contract in place) that I was

putting myself in a tricky situation with him and my mother. I chose to move

forward with it because I needed this

chance after struggling for way too many years. It has paid off for me. I have

a new career as a nurse and am able to support my son extrememly well. But the

payoff is having to deal with my father and, as you clearly pointed out, his

disrespect towards me. I was originally considering buying this house after my

grandparents pass but have decided against it because I know my father's

vindictiveness and he will totally screw me over. So for now by living here I am

able to save up for a downpayment on purchasing my own place. I feel because

there are no rental agreements in place and since he won't respect my request to

let me know before coming in the house that I will need to change the locks and

just deal with his anger over it. It won't be pretty. I think before I do

anything however I will see legal counsel, just in case.

Elaine

> >

> > ,

> > I'm not sure how to move on. Because of this recent episode I have backed

way off and have not communicated much with them. I have tried to set boundaries

with both of them in the past. I, and my brother, have told them both to stop

talking to us about each other. We even went and spoke to their therapist about

it telling her to tell them too. They both just ignore the request. My mother

says we are adults now and should be able to handle it. I live in my

grandparents' house (they are still alive but living in a nursing home). My

father is the one who takes care of any repairs etc and I pay for all expenses

on the house including taxes and insurance in return. He feels he can come and

go from here without any notice to me. I recently discovered he was in the house

because I received the bill for the repair people. He admitted he was there with

them but refuses to acknowledge my need for notice. I have told him I need to be

told when and who he is

coming here with, this is my home and I deserve that respect. He refuses to

acknowledge my request what-so-ever. I think I will be changing the locks. This

of course will send him through the ceiling. But him coming and going without my

consent is making me crazy. I'm not asking him to stay out just asking for

notice and he won't even give me that. When he acts like that, he makes it VERY

easy to keep my distance. The problem I have is that he has treated my 11 yr old

son very well. He actually has a decent relationship with him playing golf,

skiing and fishing. That is where I struggle. I don't want to make my problems

with my father my son's problem. Any advice on that?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Elaine - Annie gave you excellent advice about 1. co-ownership (or renting)

with disordered family (always a big price to pay, in addition to the mortgage

or rent), and 2. problems you might face if you take action to keep your Dad

(the owner, or agent of the owners) out of the property. It sounds like you

have very, very few " rights " in this. But on the other hand, putting up with it

has served an excellent purpose - you are now employed in a very secure job

market, and you are saving for a down payment on a place of your own.

So I'm thinking - if you have a calendar in your head, and you mark off the

months of hassle by putting a nice chunk of money in the bank toward your down

payment, this might be one of those rare situations where putting up with it is

actually worth it in the end. If you're getting a cheap place to live, being

able to save for your own place (and putting those savings aside diligently),

and your son is getting some good attention (rather than abuse) from his

grandfather, you might be able to put your head down and just keep trudging

toward the goal. Once you have the down payment, your son will also be older

and able to interact with other good male role models (and you can be looking

for good coaches, his friends' dads, etc. to fill this role while you continue

to save).

But I can understand how maddening it must be to have your parent snooping

around in your house, coming and going without permission. That would put my

teeth on edge, too. Could you install a security camera so you know when he's

been there and if he's rummaging through your things (rather than just fixing

the toilet and leaving)? Could you tell him that when you come home and

someone's been in the house, you are afraid there might be a burglar still

there, so you'd appreciate a call (so you don't call the police, or shoot to

kill?)

Putting up with your dad's arrogance and butt-headed insistence on barging in to

your home has got to be making you furious, but I can see how moving out in a

huff might be shooting yourself in the foot. Getting that down payment socked

away and moving to your own secure dream house might be the best " revenge " - if

you can use your anger as motivation to stick to the savings plan. Sorry,

that's all I can think of.

> > >

> > > ,

> > > I'm not sure how to move on. Because of this recent episode I have backed

way off and have not communicated much with them. I have tried to set boundaries

with both of them in the past. I, and my brother, have told them both to stop

talking to us about each other. We even went and spoke to their therapist about

it telling her to tell them too. They both just ignore the request. My mother

says we are adults now and should be able to handle it. I live in my

grandparents' house (they are still alive but living in a nursing home). My

father is the one who takes care of any repairs etc and I pay for all expenses

on the house including taxes and insurance in return. He feels he can come and

go from here without any notice to me. I recently discovered he was in the house

because I received the bill for the repair people. He admitted he was there with

them but refuses to acknowledge my need for notice. I have told him I need to be

told when and who he is coming here with, this is my home and I deserve that

respect. He refuses to acknowledge my request what-so-ever. I think I will be

changing the locks. This of course will send him through the ceiling. But him

coming and going without my consent is making me crazy. I'm not asking him to

stay out just asking for notice and he won't even give me that. When he acts

like that, he makes it VERY easy to keep my distance. The problem I have is that

he has treated my 11 yr old son very well. He actually has a decent relationship

with him playing golf, skiing and fishing. That is where I struggle. I don't

want to make my problems with my father my son's problem. Any advice on that?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

There is a requirement by law in my state that landlords notify tenants

before entering the property - but if your agreement is not in writing it

may not work for you.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 9:46 AM, shirleyspawn wrote:

> **

>

>

> Hi, Elaine - Annie gave you excellent advice about 1. co-ownership (or

> renting) with disordered family (always a big price to pay, in addition to

> the mortgage or rent), and 2. problems you might face if you take action to

> keep your Dad (the owner, or agent of the owners) out of the property. It

> sounds like you have very, very few " rights " in this. But on the other hand,

> putting up with it has served an excellent purpose - you are now employed in

> a very secure job market, and you are saving for a down payment on a place

> of your own.

>

> So I'm thinking - if you have a calendar in your head, and you mark off the

> months of hassle by putting a nice chunk of money in the bank toward your

> down payment, this might be one of those rare situations where putting up

> with it is actually worth it in the end. If you're getting a cheap place to

> live, being able to save for your own place (and putting those savings aside

> diligently), and your son is getting some good attention (rather than abuse)

> from his grandfather, you might be able to put your head down and just keep

> trudging toward the goal. Once you have the down payment, your son will also

> be older and able to interact with other good male role models (and you can

> be looking for good coaches, his friends' dads, etc. to fill this role while

> you continue to save).

>

> But I can understand how maddening it must be to have your parent snooping

> around in your house, coming and going without permission. That would put my

> teeth on edge, too. Could you install a security camera so you know when

> he's been there and if he's rummaging through your things (rather than just

> fixing the toilet and leaving)? Could you tell him that when you come home

> and someone's been in the house, you are afraid there might be a burglar

> still there, so you'd appreciate a call (so you don't call the police, or

> shoot to kill?)

>

> Putting up with your dad's arrogance and butt-headed insistence on barging

> in to your home has got to be making you furious, but I can see how moving

> out in a huff might be shooting yourself in the foot. Getting that down

> payment socked away and moving to your own secure dream house might be the

> best " revenge " - if you can use your anger as motivation to stick to the

> savings plan. Sorry, that's all I can think of.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > ,

> > > > I'm not sure how to move on. Because of this recent episode I have

> backed way off and have not communicated much with them. I have tried to set

> boundaries with both of them in the past. I, and my brother, have told them

> both to stop talking to us about each other. We even went and spoke to their

> therapist about it telling her to tell them too. They both just ignore the

> request. My mother says we are adults now and should be able to handle it. I

> live in my grandparents' house (they are still alive but living in a nursing

> home). My father is the one who takes care of any repairs etc and I pay for

> all expenses on the house including taxes and insurance in return. He feels

> he can come and go from here without any notice to me. I recently discovered

> he was in the house because I received the bill for the repair people. He

> admitted he was there with them but refuses to acknowledge my need for

> notice. I have told him I need to be told when and who he is coming here

> with, this is my home and I deserve that respect. He refuses to acknowledge

> my request what-so-ever. I think I will be changing the locks. This of

> course will send him through the ceiling. But him coming and going without

> my consent is making me crazy. I'm not asking him to stay out just asking

> for notice and he won't even give me that. When he acts like that, he makes

> it VERY easy to keep my distance. The problem I have is that he has treated

> my 11 yr old son very well. He actually has a decent relationship with him

> playing golf, skiing and fishing. That is where I struggle. I don't want to

> make my problems with my father my son's problem. Any advice on that?

> > >

> >

>

>

>