recovery

[Guest guest]

Hello again,

I just thought of another question that I didn't include in my last post. I'm

relatively new to the BPD discovery. I'm NC with my fada and just initiated the

communication to be LC with my nada. Needless to say I'm stressed and upset. I

read the letter I wrote nada explaining my boundaries, feelings, etc to my

therapist and sobbed. It kind of took me by surprise. I then came home and

took a bath and sobbed for at least another hour. I looked like hell this

morning. I then cried for a half hour before work and had to hold back tears a

couple times while at work. Not to say that I haven't cried about this issue in

the past...I definitely have BUT this felt different. It felt like someone had

died. Like I was truly mourning the childhood I never had and the parental

support that I'm beginning to accept will never be there. In the past I've

recognized the sadness and disappointment, but I think I hid behind anger and

irritation and frustration. I've never been good at identifying with the

overwhelming sorrow of what a crappy hand I was dealt.

So here is my question - has anyone else experienced this? My hope is that this

is a turning point for me and that instead of staying so sad it will be the

beginning of a new acceptance and a new life moving forward. If anyone else has

hit this point, replaced anger and irritation with overwhelming sorrow, please

share what you did to get to a healthier spot. I don't want to slip into old

thinking patterns where I'm just pissed off.

Thanks:)

[Guest guest]

Hi Wishing,

Welcome to the Group.

Yes, I too have experienced that same feeling like a sudden punch to the gut:

the realization that there was no hope that my mother would ever change, that

she really didn't know *me* (she made a false accusation about me that was so

amazingly not true, that it meant my mother neither knows me or loves me) and

that would never change... that her sense of entitlement to lash out at me when

she is in emotional pain would never change, that her need to blame me (or

others) for her pain, and her desire to make me suffer the same way she is

suffering... that those things would never, ever change... and when that

reality finally sank in it was as though I'd been told that my mother had just

died. And I grieved and mourned for quite a while, exactly the same way I

grieved my dad's physical death, it felt very much the same to me. The stages

of grief are probably the same as well.

So, yes, you are not alone; others here like me are grieving too, for something

that can't be, for the death of hope of change.

-Annie

>

> Hello again,

>

> I just thought of another question that I didn't include in my last post. I'm

relatively new to the BPD discovery. I'm NC with my fada and just initiated the

communication to be LC with my nada. Needless to say I'm stressed and upset. I

read the letter I wrote nada explaining my boundaries, feelings, etc to my

therapist and sobbed. It kind of took me by surprise. I then came home and

took a bath and sobbed for at least another hour. I looked like hell this

morning. I then cried for a half hour before work and had to hold back tears a

couple times while at work. Not to say that I haven't cried about this issue in

the past...I definitely have BUT this felt different. It felt like someone had

died. Like I was truly mourning the childhood I never had and the parental

support that I'm beginning to accept will never be there. In the past I've

recognized the sadness and disappointment, but I think I hid behind anger and

irritation and frustration. I've never been good at identifying with the

overwhelming sorrow of what a crappy hand I was dealt.

>

> So here is my question - has anyone else experienced this? My hope is that

this is a turning point for me and that instead of staying so sad it will be the

beginning of a new acceptance and a new life moving forward. If anyone else has

hit this point, replaced anger and irritation with overwhelming sorrow, please

share what you did to get to a healthier spot. I don't want to slip into old

thinking patterns where I'm just pissed off.

>

> Thanks:)

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your reply. How did you feel before you realized it? i'm learning

that I've been very comfortable with feeling annoyed, frustrated, angry but was

never able to identify well with how I really felt...sad that I have such crappy

parents. I'm wondering if this is typical.

How did you move on from this place of sadness? I don't want to be sad forever,

but I don't want to go back to just being annoyed that she's such a huge pain

and that she can't be who I want her to be. I want to move forward.

> >

> > Hello again,

> >

> > I just thought of another question that I didn't include in my last post.

I'm relatively new to the BPD discovery. I'm NC with my fada and just initiated

the communication to be LC with my nada. Needless to say I'm stressed and

upset. I read the letter I wrote nada explaining my boundaries, feelings, etc

to my therapist and sobbed. It kind of took me by surprise. I then came home

and took a bath and sobbed for at least another hour. I looked like hell this

morning. I then cried for a half hour before work and had to hold back tears a

couple times while at work. Not to say that I haven't cried about this issue in

the past...I definitely have BUT this felt different. It felt like someone had

died. Like I was truly mourning the childhood I never had and the parental

support that I'm beginning to accept will never be there. In the past I've

recognized the sadness and disappointment, but I think I hid behind anger and

irritation and frustration. I've never been good at identifying with the

overwhelming sorrow of what a crappy hand I was dealt.

> >

> > So here is my question - has anyone else experienced this? My hope is that

this is a turning point for me and that instead of staying so sad it will be the

beginning of a new acceptance and a new life moving forward. If anyone else has

hit this point, replaced anger and irritation with overwhelming sorrow, please

share what you did to get to a healthier spot. I don't want to slip into old

thinking patterns where I'm just pissed off.

> >

> > Thanks:)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Wishingitwasdifferent,

I have been right where you are, as I am guessing so many of us have been. You

are going through a death of sorts, of what you thought you had, but didn't, and

what you thought you would have, and won't. THat is a death. Your mourning, in

my opinion, is a healthy sign. We in this situation become our own parents and

my guess is that, if you are a parent, you are ten times the parent your parents

were/are.

You will move out of the saddness you are in as it becomes tiring, and you will

step in as your own parent and move on. Not to say you won't have times of

saddness about it in the future, but in my experience you do get to the point

where you just won't let yourself be so hurt anymore and you get to a place

where you don't feel so hurt, and it isn't so raw.

I still occasionally find myself feeling a sense of deep longing for feeling

that innocent beleif that I had the best family, and that my parents were super

terrific. It doesn't last long and usually comes when I feel the stresses of

life and am overtired. But in general I now find myself keeping myself at

something I beleive people on this board call " medium chill " . My understanding

of what that means is that I do not get emotionally envolved, and set and

respect my boundaries with my FOO. I still can express my love to my FOO, I just

do not expect any emotional support from them and don't allow myself to get hurt

by them. I try and look at all interactions much more objectively, and don't

take them as personal. It helps a lot.

I may have rambled a bit, I hope this was some help.

>

> Hello again,

>

> I just thought of another question that I didn't include in my last post. I'm

relatively new to the BPD discovery. I'm NC with my fada and just initiated the

communication to be LC with my nada. Needless to say I'm stressed and upset. I

read the letter I wrote nada explaining my boundaries, feelings, etc to my

therapist and sobbed. It kind of took me by surprise. I then came home and

took a bath and sobbed for at least another hour. I looked like hell this

morning. I then cried for a half hour before work and had to hold back tears a

couple times while at work. Not to say that I haven't cried about this issue in

the past...I definitely have BUT this felt different. It felt like someone had

died. Like I was truly mourning the childhood I never had and the parental

support that I'm beginning to accept will never be there. In the past I've

recognized the sadness and disappointment, but I think I hid behind anger and

irritation and frustration. I've never been good at identifying with the

overwhelming sorrow of what a crappy hand I was dealt.

>

> So here is my question - has anyone else experienced this? My hope is that

this is a turning point for me and that instead of staying so sad it will be the

beginning of a new acceptance and a new life moving forward. If anyone else has

hit this point, replaced anger and irritation with overwhelming sorrow, please

share what you did to get to a healthier spot. I don't want to slip into old

thinking patterns where I'm just pissed off.

>

> Thanks:)

>

[Guest guest]

(((wishing))), so sorry for the grief you're experiencing. but in a way, it's a

good thing. i wonder if, as we go through this as adults, if it's the

individuation and separation pain we were SUPPOSED to feel as adolescents that

our parents simply wouldn't allow.

for me, the pain at going LC with nada was mostly guilt, lots and lots of guilt.

Also, it was, as you said, grief for the mother I did not have.

I got through it by staying on this board and sharing with my therapist. I

think it's fantastic that you read your letter to your therapist. although it

was painful, I'm sure it felt good to let it out to someone else.

we're here for you!!

Fiona

>

> Hello again,

>

> I just thought of another question that I didn't include in my last post. I'm

relatively new to the BPD discovery. I'm NC with my fada and just initiated the

communication to be LC with my nada. Needless to say I'm stressed and upset. I

read the letter I wrote nada explaining my boundaries, feelings, etc to my

therapist and sobbed. It kind of took me by surprise. I then came home and

took a bath and sobbed for at least another hour. I looked like hell this

morning. I then cried for a half hour before work and had to hold back tears a

couple times while at work. Not to say that I haven't cried about this issue in

the past...I definitely have BUT this felt different. It felt like someone had

died. Like I was truly mourning the childhood I never had and the parental

support that I'm beginning to accept will never be there. In the past I've

recognized the sadness and disappointment, but I think I hid behind anger and

irritation and frustration. I've never been good at identifying with the

overwhelming sorrow of what a crappy hand I was dealt.

>

> So here is my question - has anyone else experienced this? My hope is that

this is a turning point for me and that instead of staying so sad it will be the

beginning of a new acceptance and a new life moving forward. If anyone else has

hit this point, replaced anger and irritation with overwhelming sorrow, please

share what you did to get to a healthier spot. I don't want to slip into old

thinking patterns where I'm just pissed off.

>

> Thanks:)

>

[Guest guest]

That is an interesting point; I've wondered about that myself. I think I was

too traumatized to go through normal childhood individuation, I was one of those

robot-zombie, overly-compliant, clingy, fearful, nervous small children. I

never went through normal teenage rebellion; I just caved in and let nada tell

me what to wear and how to wear my hair until I was a senior in high school,

then I insisted on having more say-so in how I looked. And yet, my parents had

to practically pry me out of their home with a crowbar during my college years

(I'm guessing by the time I was an adult I'd become thoroughly trauma-bonded

with them.) I think if my parents hadn't moved away from *me* when I was in my

early 30's I might still be very enmeshed with nada.

So, perhaps individuating in adulthood, finally, may involve the separation

anxiety and grief we never experienced at the proper ages and stages of

development?

(Sort of like when an adult gets what are normally considered " childhood

diseases " ; a child can weather chicken pox, mumps or measles fairly easily, but

there are additional risks of complications for adults who never had these as

children or were never vaccinated for them.)

-Annie

> >

> > Hello again,

> >

> > I just thought of another question that I didn't include in my last post.

I'm relatively new to the BPD discovery. I'm NC with my fada and just initiated

the communication to be LC with my nada. Needless to say I'm stressed and

upset. I read the letter I wrote nada explaining my boundaries, feelings, etc

to my therapist and sobbed. It kind of took me by surprise. I then came home

and took a bath and sobbed for at least another hour. I looked like hell this

morning. I then cried for a half hour before work and had to hold back tears a

couple times while at work. Not to say that I haven't cried about this issue in

the past...I definitely have BUT this felt different. It felt like someone had

died. Like I was truly mourning the childhood I never had and the parental

support that I'm beginning to accept will never be there. In the past I've

recognized the sadness and disappointment, but I think I hid behind anger and

irritation and frustration. I've never been good at identifying with the

overwhelming sorrow of what a crappy hand I was dealt.

> >

> > So here is my question - has anyone else experienced this? My hope is that

this is a turning point for me and that instead of staying so sad it will be the

beginning of a new acceptance and a new life moving forward. If anyone else has

hit this point, replaced anger and irritation with overwhelming sorrow, please

share what you did to get to a healthier spot. I don't want to slip into old

thinking patterns where I'm just pissed off.

> >

> > Thanks:)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

There could be an additional thing going on, as well--with freedom from nada

comes the freedom to actually experience, in the conscious mind, the harm she

has done. For me, I cried quite regularly during deep work for a couple of

*years when I first went LC and then NC. But the pain wasn't grief--it was

pain. The pain of the severe abuse and terror that nada had inflicted over 35

years, that I was now allowed to admit to myself that I was feeling. Because

just to be in nada's presence at all, even in an email or a telephone

conversation, involved her extreme denial, to a life and death extent, that she

was NOT saying or doing anything to harm me, and never had. But of course she

was. She was compelled to, it was an addiction to her, a compulsive need for

avoiding her own pain, that she inisted on doing, and pretending she was not

doing. Since I was the hugely Omega family member, the lowest of the low, on

the totem pole, everyone backed up nada and ganged up against me by believing

her version--helping her enforce it. So, I suggest that the pain and tears

might not be all grief, but something else.

To the extent that I've experienced grief in my life, it's never been for the

lack of having parents. I've grieved the loss of a beloved pet; I've grieved

the culture of my home state, which is awesome but where I can't be right now

for various reasons; I've grieved for the spouse and children I never had in my

20s. But I've never actually grieved for not having parents. I'm not sure that

I need to. The concept of 'parent' is so *very foreign to me, that it's not

something I have ever missed. Instead I've been extremely, extremely grateful

to be able to learn about bpd/npd, and to be able to make my own living and be

completely FREE of my 'parents'.

--Charlotte

> > >

> > > Hello again,

> > >

> > > I just thought of another question that I didn't include in my last post.

I'm relatively new to the BPD discovery. I'm NC with my fada and just initiated

the communication to be LC with my nada. Needless to say I'm stressed and

upset. I read the letter I wrote nada explaining my boundaries, feelings, etc

to my therapist and sobbed. It kind of took me by surprise. I then came home

and took a bath and sobbed for at least another hour. I looked like hell this

morning. I then cried for a half hour before work and had to hold back tears a

couple times while at work. Not to say that I haven't cried about this issue in

the past...I definitely have BUT this felt different. It felt like someone had

died. Like I was truly mourning the childhood I never had and the parental

support that I'm beginning to accept will never be there. In the past I've

recognized the sadness and disappointment, but I think I hid behind anger and

irritation and frustration. I've never been good at identifying with the

overwhelming sorrow of what a crappy hand I was dealt.

> > >

> > > So here is my question - has anyone else experienced this? My hope is

that this is a turning point for me and that instead of staying so sad it will

be the beginning of a new acceptance and a new life moving forward. If anyone

else has hit this point, replaced anger and irritation with overwhelming sorrow,

please share what you did to get to a healthier spot. I don't want to slip into

old thinking patterns where I'm just pissed off.

> > >

> > > Thanks:)

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, I read what you wrote about it feeling like grieving for a death and it hit

home so much. That is where I am right now. It is like finding out my mother

has BPD is like she died. I know it is just trying to come to terms with the

fact that she will never be who I need and want her to be. Thank you for

sharing that experience. It sounds so much like what I am going through, too.

Crying in therapy when reading letters I have written to her, crying in the

shower later. I do think with time and progression through stages of grief we

will be better. Like you, I do not want to be stuck in sadness.

> > >

> > > Hello again,

> > >

> > > I just thought of another question that I didn't include in my last post.

I'm relatively new to the BPD discovery. I'm NC with my fada and just initiated

the communication to be LC with my nada. Needless to say I'm stressed and

upset. I read the letter I wrote nada explaining my boundaries, feelings, etc

to my therapist and sobbed. It kind of took me by surprise. I then came home

and took a bath and sobbed for at least another hour. I looked like hell this

morning. I then cried for a half hour before work and had to hold back tears a

couple times while at work. Not to say that I haven't cried about this issue in

the past...I definitely have BUT this felt different. It felt like someone had

died. Like I was truly mourning the childhood I never had and the parental

support that I'm beginning to accept will never be there. In the past I've

recognized the sadness and disappointment, but I think I hid behind anger and

irritation and frustration. I've never been good at identifying with the

overwhelming sorrow of what a crappy hand I was dealt.

> > >

> > > So here is my question - has anyone else experienced this? My hope is

that this is a turning point for me and that instead of staying so sad it will

be the beginning of a new acceptance and a new life moving forward. If anyone

else has hit this point, replaced anger and irritation with overwhelming sorrow,

please share what you did to get to a healthier spot. I don't want to slip into

old thinking patterns where I'm just pissed off.

> > >

> > > Thanks:)

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Wishing,

Me personally, before I understood that my mother has a real mental illness

called borderline pd (and probably narcissistic pd, and obsessive compulsive pd,

and perhaps a touch of psychopathy as well) I just felt that somehow the way

she behaved and treated me was all my fault. I felt that if I could just be

more successful in my career and do things to make her proud of me, she would

treat me better, not lash out at me, not blame me for how she felt and not feel

so disappointed with me. I just felt kind of depressed and unworthy a lot of

the time, and that there must be something very, very wrong with me on a

fundamental level.

It took me until middle age to learn about personality disorder and figure out

that I was NOT causing my mother to think, feel and behave the way she does,

that she actually has a mental illness.

The grieving process simply takes as long as it takes for each individual; its

not a set amount of time. I am much less sad than I used to be, I think I have

processed most of my grief now, after several years. I'm a happier and more

outgoing person than I ever was growing up.

So, I will always feel some sadness RE my nada, in the same way that I still

miss my dad who physically died about 15 years ago now, but I've passed beyond

the debilitating sadness of early grief and mourning.

Life goes on, and I continue to look for ways to add joy and peace and

fulfillment to my life. I think part of healing is a determination to heal, and

feeling that we deserve some happiness.

-Annie

>

> >

> > Thanks for your reply. How did you feel before you realized it? i'm

learning that I've been very comfortable with feeling annoyed, frustrated, angry

but was never able to identify well with how I really felt...sad that I have

such crappy parents. I'm wondering if this is typical.

> >

> > How did you move on from this place of sadness? I don't want to be sad

forever, but I don't want to go back to just being annoyed that she's such a

huge pain and that she can't be who I want her to be. I want to move forward.

[Guest guest]

>> Hello Amy and Group.....

I am new to this forum and have also recently discovered that my mom is not who

I thought she was.....I have no contact at this time with nada. She seems to

have symptoms of BPD in the Waif, Hermit form. I am 55 years old and just

getting the big picture. How could I have been so naive?

>> I was feeling so good for last days. Calm more or less and health not bad.

>> Last night, I talked too long to husband about some new feelings coming up

re ma b. I hardly slept all might. I do not feel well now. Feel like I lost

ground or just more crap is coming up.

>> Maybe you can relate?

>> I started thinking of this situation from HER side. The fact she had a

shitty upbringing, was abandoned through mother's early death and many other

issues about her life. It was not an easy one and she had no tools or role

models to guide herself from. Therapy in early years was pretty poor. In short,

I started to think, for all the crazy- making dad and ma b caused and still

are.....it is the best she could do and can do at the moment. Right or wrong it

just " IS " .

>> Now, the " IS " is not healthy nor fair, to " normal people " but how do you

define normal? Ok, let's talk about healthy then. She is not healthy. She is

stuck and set on her ways and her role as Mother. Therefore she feels justified

in all she has done or didn't do. More so now than ever.

>> From MY perspective, I see a relationship where I mothered a child-minded

mother, who had no support in her marriage or in even dealing with her

alcoholic son or scads of other of her life issues. So, I very early took on the

role of helping her. I was one she could count on to confide in and cry to. I

felt she had no one, and she didn't, so I enabled her. I also knew she was the

only tad of hope for a family I would ever have. My father was never

approachable to his death 11 Yeats ago. She was a by- product of his control

and her own dwarfed ability to have grown up. She was very weak and needy and

self- love was not there. All this and the violence we endured, splintered

myself and two brothers.

>> So my brain rambled on through the night, just what I do not need, as once

again I am down on the floor feeling so sick over this. I got to the point I

could see WHY she behaved the way she has all throughout and that perhaps she

was more a victim of her cut short development than a mean, waif-like full BPD.

Really, I don't know the difference here, as each illness can run into other

conditions....nothing perfectly fits any of us forcing labels on people. They

only help for guidelines, I feel.

>> I started to once to BLAME myself for not having not ability up to now to

understand her perspective, even if it is full of control etc. After all, isn't

my desire and want almost need, for a loving and understanding, patient, mother,

also an expectation on my part? Like she had her own expectations of me? Is

either more wrong or right than the other?

>> Just the components of each perspective looks different. But each is valid in

their owner's eyes.

>> So, I began to think it AGAIN IT WAS I WHO HURT HER and maybe she just

couldn't come to the mother in -law funeral easily, or always felt not enough to

come and stay with us ( never visited my kids or us for 11 years, we live 800

miles away ) and watch my own close family in action.....and feel threatened by

me when I would go out there talking new positive ideas and pressing her to open

up about our past abuse with good intent of trying to heal us all. Maybe, she

just couldn't handle all the issues. Maybe she just can't handle the strength

of ME! So she rebels in the manner she has... Right up to the last showing of

being so angry that I am mow in charge of her brother’s Will and that I am

ill, she shows, once again, little concern for my health issue. This was our

last communication.....so she went overboard ( as usual) and she said she did

have to put up with this anymore, and told me to tell husband to go to hell (

whom she recently turned on because she said HE was not FOR her but she could

see my husband was for ME...WFT is that? ) My husband was throughout, very

gentle with her and since all this last few years, has changed his demeanor

towards her. He is tired of her bullshit.

>> So my guilt has come up again......I do not know if it is mom- made from

years of past conditioning or if what I write here has merit. I am seemingly

back under their control.....although I felt so good the last days.

>> So I am back to spinning again.

>> I DO KNOW it is so hard to have a REAL conversation with her at any time.

She fibs, now Lies, twists, manipulates, is self- absorbed, weak and wants

things always easy....never risks. Wants her way even if good intentions

sometimes, it is usually about reflection on how she looks to others. Hangs up

if you start to upset her especially about the truth of her and her

behavior.....or anything to do if her role as Mother is challenged. In

short..... Closeness and reality are severely limited with this person. If you

show strength and talk back, YOU ARE WRONG. If she gets on a spin and you raise

your voice to TRY to make a point in your defense, she raises her voice, so you

must shout to get her to stop or MAYBE shut up for a minute......THEN she gets

mad and tells me I am yelling at her, how DARE I do this to my mother and either

calls me some name or hangs up. I call back trying to explain and sometimes she

will seem to understand and other times it gets worse. If she understands at

that time...you can bet soon she will forget or heap it on the pile of all the

other times....but then so do I....trying to get her to help us sort through our

disagreements one by one. She says the past is the past, why must I bring it up

to her? I tell her, in order to fix us. She disagrees.

>> I have been so foolish. I only wanted to have a mom and to help her.....and

fix her. I know now I cannot.

>> She has so many excuses for everything and most are so lame.......BUT all

this is her choice to behave in any manner she chooses, regardless if viewed

right or wrong, healthy or plain insane, by me.

>> She will never be what I wanted in a mother. Fact. She is almost impossible

to deal with IF things do not go her way. Fact. Do not bring up the past or

anything she hurt you with because it will be your fault somehow at some

point….Fact.

>> So, the dilemma. She is not calling me now for 3 weeks. She has dug in her

heels and changed towards MY changes towards her in the last few years and for

sure the last 5 months. She is also getting older, 85. And more worn out. My

brother alcoholic is likely pulling her (his trait) to his side, encouraging her

to stay away from me as he takes from her constantly.

>> In her defence she is showing some bravado the last number of months, but it

has so further weakened the potential of a relationship because it is done with

a one-sided perspective.

>> Now i see she could go on indefinitely now, not calling. This was not this

way even to a year ago. If I call, she feels she wins. If I do not, it

reinforces her justification I am a bad girl and stay away then bad daughter.

She feels abandoned again so her MIGHT is to now, to abandon me. This way she

feels vindicated and doesn't have to listen to me anymore about any truth. Also

she is not reviving her SUPPLY from me any longer.

>> Even if I call…I cannot say I am sorry for being ME….and wanting things

to be REAL between us, and no more lies and pretenses and control. But this

will likely not change. If I never contact then I may lose this part of

me….and feel I did not try my best……..if she is willing to talk, I can

never go to these other issues again….because the same will repeat. I feel I

was always objectified as an off- spring with little validation of an individual

" self " . I was made to obey and be a good person by their rules.

>> I am so lost right now. I thought I was on the right track. Maybe I was…but

this is a person I would not pick for a good friend. I am stuck with her as a

mother and lame one at that.

>

> I am and always was willing to talk issues out, as that is me but I am tired

of trying to come to the same point.

>> She may die and my brothers may never even let me know as I am sure they

feel it is all my fault somehow. Especially the alcoholic…he also has vested

interest in HER Will….this I know. He will take full advantage of coloring me

more black. She is very swayable….flips like a fish out of water when

threatened.

>> Can you comment or relate here?. I really would appreciate some experienced

input. I want to move on and not make MY family here anymore distressed than

they are about my health and issues.

>> In pain,

>> Twyla

>>

> Wow, I read what you wrote about it feeling like grieving for a death and it

hit home so much. That is where I am right now. It is like finding out my mother

has BPD is like she died. I know it is just trying to come to terms with the

fact that she will never be who I need and want her to be. Thank you for sharing

that experience. It sounds so much like what I am going through, too. Crying in

therapy when reading letters I have written to her, crying in the shower later.

I do think with time and progression through stages of grief we will be better.

Like you, I do not want to be stuck in sadness.

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Hello again,

> > > >

> > > > I just thought of another question that I didn't include in my last

post. I'm relatively new to the BPD discovery. I'm NC with my fada and just

initiated the communication to be LC with my nada. Needless to say I'm stressed

and upset. I read the letter I wrote nada explaining my boundaries, feelings,

etc to my therapist and sobbed. It kind of took me by surprise. I then came home

and took a bath and sobbed for at least another hour. I looked like hell this

morning. I then cried for a half hour before work and had to hold back tears a

couple times while at work. Not to say that I haven't cried about this issue in

the past...I definitely have BUT this felt different. It felt like someone had

died. Like I was truly mourning the childhood I never had and the parental

support that I'm beginning to accept will never be there. In the past I've

recognized the sadness and disappointment, but I think I hid behind anger and

irritation and frustration. I've never been good at identifying with the

overwhelming sorrow of what a crappy hand I was dealt.

> > > >

> > > > So here is my question - has anyone else experienced this? My hope is

that this is a turning point for me and that instead of staying so sad it will

be the beginning of a new acceptance and a new life moving forward. If anyone

else has hit this point, replaced anger and irritation with overwhelming sorrow,

please share what you did to get to a healthier spot. I don't want to slip into

old thinking patterns where I'm just pissed off.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks:)

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Twyla,

In my opinion (and I am not a psychologist, just a fellow KO) you are still

operating on the invalid premises that (a) you are somehow responsible for the

fact that your mother is mentally ill and unhappy, and ( that its your job to

rescue her, stabilize her, support her, make her feel good about herself, etc.

That premise is wrong, in my opinion. You were the child, she was the adult.

Your mother could at any given moment in time have chosen to get help for

herself, chosen to get counseling or therapy, to contact a social worker, talk

to her doctor or her pastor... but she didn't. Instead she chose to turn her

little child into *her mommy*. You did not voluntarily " take on " that role, it

was shoved on you, strapped and welded to you when you were too little to even

comprehend what was being done to you.

That's what Waif and Hermit bpd mothers do: they reverse roles with their child.

Its wrong to do that to a child. It causes psychological damage to the child

that can last well into the child's adulthood.

Those who are severely affected by personality disorder really are not mentally

healthy enough to be raising children, in my opinion. They damage their child

more than they nurture and mentor their child. I think pd individuals should

have intensive supervision if they are parents, or in the worst cases, their

children need to be removed and raised in a safe environment by mentally

healthy, compassionate care-givers.

So my suggestion is that a key issue for you is to let yourself fully understand

and accept that you did not make your mother mentally ill, and you can't cure

her. You are not now and never were responsible for making her happy and safe;

you are not your mother's parent. You can't make her happy with herself, inside

herself; you don't have that power. Your mother is the only person who has that

power, but she has to want to change (through having therapy, or by other

means.)

You can feel pity for your mother without also accepting the responsibility to

make her

better. You can encourage her to (for example) seek therapy for herself, give

her emotional validation when she makes the effort to seek therapy and stay in

therapy. I think you are correct when you stated that by being your mother's

rescuer, you are enabling her to remain a victim and perpetuating an unhealthy

relationship dynamic.

So, as long as you continue to feel that somehow its your job to be your

mother's parent and rescuer, you will be stuck " spinning " in that endless spiral

of feeling both (inappropriately) guilty for not being able to " make her all

better " , and feeling frustration and depression because you feel used and you

feel you want and deserve your own life but you can't because you have to rescue

your mom and make her the center and focus of your existence. Only you can

figure out how to break yourself free from that destructive spiral.

That's just my two cent's worth. Each of us has to find a path to healing that

works for us, and it varies from individual to individual. There is no one

right way or best way or only way to deal with these bpd parent issues and

achieve a more normalized and mentally healthy life for ourselves.

But accepting that you actually do have the right to your own life and you were

not born to be your mother's parent, is a big step toward health and healing.

-Annie

>

>

> >> Hello Amy and Group.....

>

> I am new to this forum and have also recently discovered that my mom is not

who I thought she was.....I have no contact at this time with nada. She seems to

have symptoms of BPD in the Waif, Hermit form. I am 55 years old and just

getting the big picture. How could I have been so naive?

>

> >> I was feeling so good for last days. Calm more or less and health not bad.

> >> Last night, I talked too long to husband about some new feelings coming

up re ma b. I hardly slept all might. I do not feel well now. Feel like I lost

ground or just more crap is coming up.

> >> Maybe you can relate?

>

> >> I started thinking of this situation from HER side. The fact she had a

shitty upbringing, was abandoned through mother's early death and many other

issues about her life. It was not an easy one and she had no tools or role

models to guide herself from. Therapy in early years was pretty poor. In short,

I started to think, for all the crazy- making dad and ma b caused and still

are.....it is the best she could do and can do at the moment. Right or wrong it

just " IS " .

>

> >> Now, the " IS " is not healthy nor fair, to " normal people " but how do you

define normal? Ok, let's talk about healthy then. She is not healthy. She is

stuck and set on her ways and her role as Mother. Therefore she feels justified

in all she has done or didn't do. More so now than ever.

>

> >> From MY perspective, I see a relationship where I mothered a child-minded

mother, who had no support in her marriage or in even dealing with her

alcoholic son or scads of other of her life issues. So, I very early took on the

role of helping her. I was one she could count on to confide in and cry to. I

felt she had no one, and she didn't, so I enabled her. I also knew she was the

only tad of hope for a family I would ever have. My father was never

approachable to his death 11 Yeats ago. She was a by- product of his control

and her own dwarfed ability to have grown up. She was very weak and needy and

self- love was not there. All this and the violence we endured, splintered

myself and two brothers.

>

> >> So my brain rambled on through the night, just what I do not need, as once

again I am down on the floor feeling so sick over this. I got to the point I

could see WHY she behaved the way she has all throughout and that perhaps she

was more a victim of her cut short development than a mean, waif-like full BPD.

Really, I don't know the difference here, as each illness can run into other

conditions....nothing perfectly fits any of us forcing labels on people. They

only help for guidelines, I feel.

>

> >> I started to once to BLAME myself for not having not ability up to now to

understand her perspective, even if it is full of control etc. After all, isn't

my desire and want almost need, for a loving and understanding, patient, mother,

also an expectation on my part? Like she had her own expectations of me? Is

either more wrong or right than the other?

>

> >> Just the components of each perspective looks different. But each is valid

in their owner's eyes.

>

> >> So, I began to think it AGAIN IT WAS I WHO HURT HER and maybe she just

couldn't come to the mother in -law funeral easily, or always felt not enough to

come and stay with us ( never visited my kids or us for 11 years, we live 800

miles away ) and watch my own close family in action.....and feel threatened by

me when I would go out there talking new positive ideas and pressing her to open

up about our past abuse with good intent of trying to heal us all. Maybe, she

just couldn't handle all the issues. Maybe she just can't handle the strength

of ME! So she rebels in the manner she has... Right up to the last showing of

being so angry that I am mow in charge of her brother’s Will and that I am

ill, she shows, once again, little concern for my health issue. This was our

last communication.....so she went overboard ( as usual) and she said she did

have to put up with this anymore, and told me to tell husband to go to hell (

whom she recently turned on because she said HE was not FOR her but she could

see my husband was for ME...WFT is that? ) My husband was throughout, very

gentle with her and since all this last few years, has changed his demeanor

towards her. He is tired of her bullshit.

>

> >> So my guilt has come up again......I do not know if it is mom- made from

years of past conditioning or if what I write here has merit. I am seemingly

back under their control.....although I felt so good the last days.

>

> >> So I am back to spinning again.

>

> >> I DO KNOW it is so hard to have a REAL conversation with her at any time.

She fibs, now Lies, twists, manipulates, is self- absorbed, weak and wants

things always easy....never risks. Wants her way even if good intentions

sometimes, it is usually about reflection on how she looks to others. Hangs up

if you start to upset her especially about the truth of her and her

behavior.....or anything to do if her role as Mother is challenged. In

short..... Closeness and reality are severely limited with this person. If you

show strength and talk back, YOU ARE WRONG. If she gets on a spin and you raise

your voice to TRY to make a point in your defense, she raises her voice, so you

must shout to get her to stop or MAYBE shut up for a minute......THEN she gets

mad and tells me I am yelling at her, how DARE I do this to my mother and either

calls me some name or hangs up. I call back trying to explain and sometimes she

will seem to understand and other times it gets worse. If she understands at

that time...you can bet soon she will forget or heap it on the pile of all the

other times....but then so do I....trying to get her to help us sort through our

disagreements one by one. She says the past is the past, why must I bring it up

to her? I tell her, in order to fix us. She disagrees.

>

> >> I have been so foolish. I only wanted to have a mom and to help her.....and

fix her. I know now I cannot.

>

> >> She has so many excuses for everything and most are so lame.......BUT all

this is her choice to behave in any manner she chooses, regardless if viewed

right or wrong, healthy or plain insane, by me.

> >> She will never be what I wanted in a mother. Fact. She is almost

impossible to deal with IF things do not go her way. Fact. Do not bring up the

past or anything she hurt you with because it will be your fault somehow at some

point….Fact.

>

> >> So, the dilemma. She is not calling me now for 3 weeks. She has dug in

her heels and changed towards MY changes towards her in the last few years and

for sure the last 5 months. She is also getting older, 85. And more worn out.

My brother alcoholic is likely pulling her (his trait) to his side, encouraging

her to stay away from me as he takes from her constantly.

>

> >> In her defence she is showing some bravado the last number of months, but

it has so further weakened the potential of a relationship because it is done

with a one-sided perspective.

>

> >> Now i see she could go on indefinitely now, not calling. This was not

this way even to a year ago. If I call, she feels she wins. If I do not, it

reinforces her justification I am a bad girl and stay away then bad daughter.

She feels abandoned again so her MIGHT is to now, to abandon me. This way she

feels vindicated and doesn't have to listen to me anymore about any truth. Also

she is not reviving her SUPPLY from me any longer.

>

> >> Even if I call…I cannot say I am sorry for being ME….and wanting

things to be REAL between us, and no more lies and pretenses and control. But

this will likely not change. If I never contact then I may lose this part of

me….and feel I did not try my best……..if she is willing to talk, I can

never go to these other issues again….because the same will repeat. I feel I

was always objectified as an off- spring with little validation of an individual

" self " . I was made to obey and be a good person by their rules.

>

> >> I am so lost right now. I thought I was on the right track. Maybe I

was…but this is a person I would not pick for a good friend. I am stuck with

her as a mother and lame one at that.

> >

> > I am and always was willing to talk issues out, as that is me but I am

tired of trying to come to the same point.

>

> >> She may die and my brothers may never even let me know as I am sure they

feel it is all my fault somehow. Especially the alcoholic…he also has vested

interest in HER Will….this I know. He will take full advantage of coloring me

more black. She is very swayable….flips like a fish out of water when

threatened.

> >> Can you comment or relate here?. I really would appreciate some

experienced input. I want to move on and not make MY family here anymore

distressed than they are about my health and issues.

>

> >> In pain,

> >> Twyla

[Guest guest]

Thank you.

So the pain and suffering I feel is normal for the withdrawal I am determined to

do correct? It is like peeling layers of my skin off.

I feel like nada died as other members here have commented or WILL die hurting

and alone because there is now no one there for her. She is now so full of rage

and even more denial.

Also as you stated I am severely angry and confused as I put so much effort in

to find she is not there and rarely ever was for me. I was her supply and as

soon as I started pulling back she got worse with her insane behavior no matter

what cost to me.

I thought I could help make her the mom I needed so badly during those years

especially when young with so much violence.

No one in my FOO has changed much over the many years and resent the other

growth work I have accomplished. There is no supporter or ever was in my FOO.

Just me the rebel but enabler for nada only. Not any longer.

Thankful,

Twyla

Sent from my iPad

> Hi Twyla,

>

> In my opinion (and I am not a psychologist, just a fellow KO) you are still

operating on the invalid premises that (a) you are somehow responsible for the

fact that your mother is mentally ill and unhappy, and ( that its your job to

rescue her, stabilize her, support her, make her feel good about herself, etc.

>

> That premise is wrong, in my opinion. You were the child, she was the adult.

Your mother could at any given moment in time have chosen to get help for

herself, chosen to get counseling or therapy, to contact a social worker, talk

to her doctor or her pastor... but she didn't. Instead she chose to turn her

little child into *her mommy*. You did not voluntarily " take on " that role, it

was shoved on you, strapped and welded to you when you were too little to even

comprehend what was being done to you.

>

> That's what Waif and Hermit bpd mothers do: they reverse roles with their

child.

>

> Its wrong to do that to a child. It causes psychological damage to the child

that can last well into the child's adulthood.

>

> Those who are severely affected by personality disorder really are not

mentally healthy enough to be raising children, in my opinion. They damage their

child more than they nurture and mentor their child. I think pd individuals

should have intensive supervision if they are parents, or in the worst cases,

their children need to be removed and raised in a safe environment by mentally

healthy, compassionate care-givers.

>

> So my suggestion is that a key issue for you is to let yourself fully

understand and accept that you did not make your mother mentally ill, and you

can't cure her. You are not now and never were responsible for making her happy

and safe; you are not your mother's parent. You can't make her happy with

herself, inside herself; you don't have that power. Your mother is the only

person who has that power, but she has to want to change (through having

therapy, or by other means.)

>

> You can feel pity for your mother without also accepting the responsibility to

make her

> better. You can encourage her to (for example) seek therapy for herself, give

her emotional validation when she makes the effort to seek therapy and stay in

therapy. I think you are correct when you stated that by being your mother's

rescuer, you are enabling her to remain a victim and perpetuating an unhealthy

relationship dynamic.

>

> So, as long as you continue to feel that somehow its your job to be your

mother's parent and rescuer, you will be stuck " spinning " in that endless spiral

of feeling both (inappropriately) guilty for not being able to " make her all

better " , and feeling frustration and depression because you feel used and you

feel you want and deserve your own life but you can't because you have to rescue

your mom and make her the center and focus of your existence. Only you can

figure out how to break yourself free from that destructive spiral.

>

> That's just my two cent's worth. Each of us has to find a path to healing that

works for us, and it varies from individual to individual. There is no one right

way or best way or only way to deal with these bpd parent issues and achieve a

more normalized and mentally healthy life for ourselves.

>

> But accepting that you actually do have the right to your own life and you

were not born to be your mother's parent, is a big step toward health and

healing.

>

> -Annie

>

>

> >

> >

> > >> Hello Amy and Group.....

> >

> > I am new to this forum and have also recently discovered that my mom is not

who I thought she was.....I have no contact at this time with nada. She seems to

have symptoms of BPD in the Waif, Hermit form. I am 55 years old and just

getting the big picture. How could I have been so naive?

> >

> > >> I was feeling so good for last days. Calm more or less and health not

bad.

> > >> Last night, I talked too long to husband about some new feelings coming

up re ma b. I hardly slept all might. I do not feel well now. Feel like I lost

ground or just more crap is coming up.

> > >> Maybe you can relate?

> >

> > >> I started thinking of this situation from HER side. The fact she had a

shitty upbringing, was abandoned through mother's early death and many other

issues about her life. It was not an easy one and she had no tools or role

models to guide herself from. Therapy in early years was pretty poor. In short,

I started to think, for all the crazy- making dad and ma b caused and still

are.....it is the best she could do and can do at the moment. Right or wrong it

just " IS " .

> >

> > >> Now, the " IS " is not healthy nor fair, to " normal people " but how do you

define normal? Ok, let's talk about healthy then. She is not healthy. She is

stuck and set on her ways and her role as Mother. Therefore she feels justified

in all she has done or didn't do. More so now than ever.

> >

> > >> From MY perspective, I see a relationship where I mothered a child-minded

mother, who had no support in her marriage or in even dealing with her alcoholic

son or scads of other of her life issues. So, I very early took on the role of

helping her. I was one she could count on to confide in and cry to. I felt she

had no one, and she didn't, so I enabled her. I also knew she was the only tad

of hope for a family I would ever have. My father was never approachable to his

death 11 Yeats ago. She was a by- product of his control and her own dwarfed

ability to have grown up. She was very weak and needy and self- love was not

there. All this and the violence we endured, splintered myself and two brothers.

> >

> > >> So my brain rambled on through the night, just what I do not need, as

once again I am down on the floor feeling so sick over this. I got to the point

I could see WHY she behaved the way she has all throughout and that perhaps she

was more a victim of her cut short development than a mean, waif-like full BPD.

Really, I don't know the difference here, as each illness can run into other

conditions....nothing perfectly fits any of us forcing labels on people. They

only help for guidelines, I feel.

> >

> > >> I started to once to BLAME myself for not having not ability up to now to

understand her perspective, even if it is full of control etc. After all, isn't

my desire and want almost need, for a loving and understanding, patient, mother,

also an expectation on my part? Like she had her own expectations of me? Is

either more wrong or right than the other?

> >

> > >> Just the components of each perspective looks different. But each is

valid in their owner's eyes.

> >

> > >> So, I began to think it AGAIN IT WAS I WHO HURT HER and maybe she just

couldn't come to the mother in -law funeral easily, or always felt not enough to

come and stay with us ( never visited my kids or us for 11 years, we live 800

miles away ) and watch my own close family in action.....and feel threatened by

me when I would go out there talking new positive ideas and pressing her to open

up about our past abuse with good intent of trying to heal us all. Maybe, she

just couldn't handle all the issues. Maybe she just can't handle the strength of

ME! So she rebels in the manner she has... Right up to the last showing of being

so angry that I am mow in charge of her brother’s Will and that I am ill,

she shows, once again, little concern for my health issue. This was our last

communication.....so she went overboard ( as usual) and she said she did have to

put up with this anymore, and told me to tell husband to go to hell ( whom she

recently turned on because she said HE was not FOR her but she could see my

husband was for ME...WFT is that? ) My husband was throughout, very gentle with

her and since all this last few years, has changed his demeanor towards her. He

is tired of her bullshit.

> >

> > >> So my guilt has come up again......I do not know if it is mom- made from

years of past conditioning or if what I write here has merit. I am seemingly

back under their control.....although I felt so good the last days.

> >

> > >> So I am back to spinning again.

> >

> > >> I DO KNOW it is so hard to have a REAL conversation with her at any time.

She fibs, now Lies, twists, manipulates, is self- absorbed, weak and wants

things always easy....never risks. Wants her way even if good intentions

sometimes, it is usually about reflection on how she looks to others. Hangs up

if you start to upset her especially about the truth of her and her

behavior.....or anything to do if her role as Mother is challenged. In

short..... Closeness and reality are severely limited with this person. If you

show strength and talk back, YOU ARE WRONG. If she gets on a spin and you raise

your voice to TRY to make a point in your defense, she raises her voice, so you

must shout to get her to stop or MAYBE shut up for a minute......THEN she gets

mad and tells me I am yelling at her, how DARE I do this to my mother and either

calls me some name or hangs up. I call back trying to explain and sometimes she

will seem to understand and other times it gets worse. If she understands at

that time...you can bet soon she will forget or heap it on the pile of all the

other times....but then so do I....trying to get her to help us sort through our

disagreements one by one. She says the past is the past, why must I bring it up

to her? I tell her, in order to fix us. She disagrees.

> >

> > >> I have been so foolish. I only wanted to have a mom and to help

her.....and fix her. I know now I cannot.

> >

> > >> She has so many excuses for everything and most are so lame.......BUT all

this is her choice to behave in any manner she chooses, regardless if viewed

right or wrong, healthy or plain insane, by me.

> > >> She will never be what I wanted in a mother. Fact. She is almost

impossible to deal with IF things do not go her way. Fact. Do not bring up the

past or anything she hurt you with because it will be your fault somehow at some

point….Fact.

> >

> > >> So, the dilemma. She is not calling me now for 3 weeks. She has dug in

her heels and changed towards MY changes towards her in the last few years and

for sure the last 5 months. She is also getting older, 85. And more worn out. My

brother alcoholic is likely pulling her (his trait) to his side, encouraging her

to stay away from me as he takes from her constantly.

> >

> > >> In her defence she is showing some bravado the last number of months, but

it has so further weakened the potential of a relationship because it is done

with a one-sided perspective.

> >

> > >> Now i see she could go on indefinitely now, not calling. This was not

this way even to a year ago. If I call, she feels she wins. If I do not, it

reinforces her justification I am a bad girl and stay away then bad daughter.

She feels abandoned again so her MIGHT is to now, to abandon me. This way she

feels vindicated and doesn't have to listen to me anymore about any truth. Also

she is not reviving her SUPPLY from me any longer.

> >

> > >> Even if I call…I cannot say I am sorry for being ME….and

wanting things to be REAL between us, and no more lies and pretenses and

control. But this will likely not change. If I never contact then I may lose

this part of me….and feel I did not try my best……..if she is

willing to talk, I can never go to these other issues again….because the

same will repeat. I feel I was always objectified as an off- spring with little

validation of an individual " self " . I was made to obey and be a good person by

their rules.

> >

> > >> I am so lost right now. I thought I was on the right track. Maybe I

was…but this is a person I would not pick for a good friend. I am stuck

with her as a mother and lame one at that.

> > >

> > > I am and always was willing to talk issues out, as that is me but I am

tired of trying to come to the same point.

> >

> > >> She may die and my brothers may never even let me know as I am sure they

feel it is all my fault somehow. Especially the alcoholic…he also has

vested interest in HER Will….this I know. He will take full advantage of

coloring me more black. She is very swayable….flips like a fish out of

water when threatened.

> > >> Can you comment or relate here?. I really would appreciate some

experienced input. I want to move on and not make MY family here anymore

distressed than they are about my health and issues.

> >

> > >> In pain,

> > >> Twyla

>

>

[Guest guest]

" (Sort of like when an adult gets what are normally considered " childhood

diseases " ; a child can weather chicken pox, mumps or measles fairly easily, but

there are additional risks of complications for adults who never had these as

children or were never vaccinated for them.) "

That's a great point, Annie. Pain, emotional or otherwise, that should have

taken place earlier in life--such as the pain of separation into

individuals--might be more intense or pronounced when it takes place in

adulthood.

> > >

> > > Hello again,

> > >

> > > I just thought of another question that I didn't include in my last post.

I'm relatively new to the BPD discovery. I'm NC with my fada and just initiated

the communication to be LC with my nada. Needless to say I'm stressed and

upset. I read the letter I wrote nada explaining my boundaries, feelings, etc

to my therapist and sobbed. It kind of took me by surprise. I then came home

and took a bath and sobbed for at least another hour. I looked like hell this

morning. I then cried for a half hour before work and had to hold back tears a

couple times while at work. Not to say that I haven't cried about this issue in

the past...I definitely have BUT this felt different. It felt like someone had

died. Like I was truly mourning the childhood I never had and the parental

support that I'm beginning to accept will never be there. In the past I've

recognized the sadness and disappointment, but I think I hid behind anger and

irritation and frustration. I've never been good at identifying with the

overwhelming sorrow of what a crappy hand I was dealt.

> > >

> > > So here is my question - has anyone else experienced this? My hope is

that this is a turning point for me and that instead of staying so sad it will

be the beginning of a new acceptance and a new life moving forward. If anyone

else has hit this point, replaced anger and irritation with overwhelming sorrow,

please share what you did to get to a healthier spot. I don't want to slip into

old thinking patterns where I'm just pissed off.

> > >

> > > Thanks:)

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Twlya,

I am so sorry you are in so much pain. Unfortunately it is normal, at least in

my limited experience, with learning about my own BP parent and MIL. I have a

very raging BP MIL who until very recently was in occassional communication with

my DH and I, and even stayed here sometimes. Recently, her relentlessly negative

and hurtful ways just got to be too much and we have gone nearly NC with her.

She dumps on everyone, even my DH, her son, when he is having her in our home

and doing for her. It never ceases to amaze and confuse me! She really doesn't

have many people in her life who would really be there for her so I do not

understand why she would continue to burn him and then act shocked when he

called her on it and said stay away.

It seems cruel and goes against everything we know growing up, but when someone

only takes from us and sucks the life out of us,we owe it to ourselves and the

ones we love to put up healthy boundries and protect ourselves. Even if the one

we are protecting ourselves from is our own parent. It feel wrong and sounds

wrong and it so hard, but unless you are willing to surrender who you are and

your life, you have to put those boundries in place and respect yourself. You

cannot be responsible for what your nada does or says.

Healthy relationships are based on mutual respect and self responsibility and

with our nadas that is non-existant. So to stay healthy ourselves we have to

create those healthy boundries. You can only control yourself, not your nada.

Hope this helps,

> > >

> > >

> > > >> Hello Amy and Group.....

> > >

> > > I am new to this forum and have also recently discovered that my mom is

not who I thought she was.....I have no contact at this time with nada. She

seems to have symptoms of BPD in the Waif, Hermit form. I am 55 years old and

just getting the big picture. How could I have been so naive?

> > >

> > > >> I was feeling so good for last days. Calm more or less and health not

bad.

> > > >> Last night, I talked too long to husband about some new feelings coming

up re ma b. I hardly slept all might. I do not feel well now. Feel like I lost

ground or just more crap is coming up.

> > > >> Maybe you can relate?

> > >

> > > >> I started thinking of this situation from HER side. The fact she had a

shitty upbringing, was abandoned through mother's early death and many other

issues about her life. It was not an easy one and she had no tools or role

models to guide herself from. Therapy in early years was pretty poor. In short,

I started to think, for all the crazy- making dad and ma b caused and still

are.....it is the best she could do and can do at the moment. Right or wrong it

just " IS " .

> > >

> > > >> Now, the " IS " is not healthy nor fair, to " normal people " but how do

you define normal? Ok, let's talk about healthy then. She is not healthy. She is

stuck and set on her ways and her role as Mother. Therefore she feels justified

in all she has done or didn't do. More so now than ever.

> > >

> > > >> From MY perspective, I see a relationship where I mothered a

child-minded mother, who had no support in her marriage or in even dealing with

her alcoholic son or scads of other of her life issues. So, I very early took on

the role of helping her. I was one she could count on to confide in and cry to.

I felt she had no one, and she didn't, so I enabled her. I also knew she was the

only tad of hope for a family I would ever have. My father was never

approachable to his death 11 Yeats ago. She was a by- product of his control and

her own dwarfed ability to have grown up. She was very weak and needy and self-

love was not there. All this and the violence we endured, splintered myself and

two brothers.

> > >

> > > >> So my brain rambled on through the night, just what I do not need, as

once again I am down on the floor feeling so sick over this. I got to the point

I could see WHY she behaved the way she has all throughout and that perhaps she

was more a victim of her cut short development than a mean, waif-like full BPD.

Really, I don't know the difference here, as each illness can run into other

conditions....nothing perfectly fits any of us forcing labels on people. They

only help for guidelines, I feel.

> > >

> > > >> I started to once to BLAME myself for not having not ability up to now

to understand her perspective, even if it is full of control etc. After all,

isn't my desire and want almost need, for a loving and understanding, patient,

mother, also an expectation on my part? Like she had her own expectations of me?

Is either more wrong or right than the other?

> > >

> > > >> Just the components of each perspective looks different. But each is

valid in their owner's eyes.

> > >

> > > >> So, I began to think it AGAIN IT WAS I WHO HURT HER and maybe she just

couldn't come to the mother in -law funeral easily, or always felt not enough to

come and stay with us ( never visited my kids or us for 11 years, we live 800

miles away ) and watch my own close family in action.....and feel threatened by

me when I would go out there talking new positive ideas and pressing her to open

up about our past abuse with good intent of trying to heal us all. Maybe, she

just couldn't handle all the issues. Maybe she just can't handle the strength of

ME! So she rebels in the manner she has... Right up to the last showing of being

so angry that I am mow in charge of her brother’s Will and that I am ill,

she shows, once again, little concern for my health issue. This was our last

communication.....so she went overboard ( as usual) and she said she did have to

put up with this anymore, and told me to tell husband to go to hell ( whom she

recently turned on because she said HE was not FOR her but she could see my

husband was for ME...WFT is that? ) My husband was throughout, very gentle with

her and since all this last few years, has changed his demeanor towards her. He

is tired of her bullshit.

> > >

> > > >> So my guilt has come up again......I do not know if it is mom- made

from years of past conditioning or if what I write here has merit. I am

seemingly back under their control.....although I felt so good the last days.

> > >

> > > >> So I am back to spinning again.

> > >

> > > >> I DO KNOW it is so hard to have a REAL conversation with her at any

time. She fibs, now Lies, twists, manipulates, is self- absorbed, weak and wants

things always easy....never risks. Wants her way even if good intentions

sometimes, it is usually about reflection on how she looks to others. Hangs up

if you start to upset her especially about the truth of her and her

behavior.....or anything to do if her role as Mother is challenged. In

short..... Closeness and reality are severely limited with this person. If you

show strength and talk back, YOU ARE WRONG. If she gets on a spin and you raise

your voice to TRY to make a point in your defense, she raises her voice, so you

must shout to get her to stop or MAYBE shut up for a minute......THEN she gets

mad and tells me I am yelling at her, how DARE I do this to my mother and either

calls me some name or hangs up. I call back trying to explain and sometimes she

will seem to understand and other times it gets worse. If she understands at

that time...you can bet soon she will forget or heap it on the pile of all the

other times....but then so do I....trying to get her to help us sort through our

disagreements one by one. She says the past is the past, why must I bring it up

to her? I tell her, in order to fix us. She disagrees.

> > >

> > > >> I have been so foolish. I only wanted to have a mom and to help

her.....and fix her. I know now I cannot.

> > >

> > > >> She has so many excuses for everything and most are so lame.......BUT

all this is her choice to behave in any manner she chooses, regardless if viewed

right or wrong, healthy or plain insane, by me.

> > > >> She will never be what I wanted in a mother. Fact. She is almost

impossible to deal with IF things do not go her way. Fact. Do not bring up the

past or anything she hurt you with because it will be your fault somehow at some

point….Fact.

> > >

> > > >> So, the dilemma. She is not calling me now for 3 weeks. She has dug in

her heels and changed towards MY changes towards her in the last few years and

for sure the last 5 months. She is also getting older, 85. And more worn out. My

brother alcoholic is likely pulling her (his trait) to his side, encouraging her

to stay away from me as he takes from her constantly.

> > >

> > > >> In her defence she is showing some bravado the last number of months,

but it has so further weakened the potential of a relationship because it is

done with a one-sided perspective.

> > >

> > > >> Now i see she could go on indefinitely now, not calling. This was not

this way even to a year ago. If I call, she feels she wins. If I do not, it

reinforces her justification I am a bad girl and stay away then bad daughter.

She feels abandoned again so her MIGHT is to now, to abandon me. This way she

feels vindicated and doesn't have to listen to me anymore about any truth. Also

she is not reviving her SUPPLY from me any longer.

> > >

> > > >> Even if I call…I cannot say I am sorry for being ME….and

wanting things to be REAL between us, and no more lies and pretenses and

control. But this will likely not change. If I never contact then I may lose

this part of me….and feel I did not try my best……..if she is

willing to talk, I can never go to these other issues again….because the

same will repeat. I feel I was always objectified as an off- spring with little

validation of an individual " self " . I was made to obey and be a good person by

their rules.

> > >

> > > >> I am so lost right now. I thought I was on the right track. Maybe I

was…but this is a person I would not pick for a good friend. I am stuck

with her as a mother and lame one at that.

> > > >

> > > > I am and always was willing to talk issues out, as that is me but I am

tired of trying to come to the same point.

> > >

> > > >> She may die and my brothers may never even let me know as I am sure

they feel it is all my fault somehow. Especially the alcoholic…he also has

vested interest in HER Will….this I know. He will take full advantage of

coloring me more black. She is very swayable….flips like a fish out of

water when threatened.

> > > >> Can you comment or relate here?. I really would appreciate some

experienced input. I want to move on and not make MY family here anymore

distressed than they are about my health and issues.

> > >

> > > >> In pain,

> > > >> Twyla

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good morning,

Annie, I agree with everything you said. I am not as far along as you are, but

I know that is where I want to be. My mind can grasp all of it, but my emotions

are still trying to catch up. I guess that takes time. Thank you for sharing

your insights and experience. I am struggling right now with the idea that I

need to call my mother. I have not seen her or talked to her in about three

weeks (she never calls me, I always have to call her) and the guilt is starting

to get to me. When I do call I know I will hear about how long it has been. If

I say something about her calling me, I will hear the standard line " You know I

don't call people. " Which is true, she doesn't call anyone. Everything goes in

one direction. But, hopefully being a part of this group and my counseling will

help me to let go a little of that feeling of obligation always hanging over my

head. I so much want to let go of it. Yet I do not like the idea of having no

contact at all, I am not comfortable with that quite yet. I have had occasions

like that in the past with her, her choice. One time was about 6 months and the

other time was 8 mos where she did not speak to me and would not respond to

overtures on my part. There was a feeling of freedom for me when that was going

on. Once she decided to start speaking again, however, the old feeling of guilt

and obligation comes back for me. I know that recognizing it and actively

working on it will make a difference. But, it is a slow process! Thanks

everyone. Reading all of your posts really helps.

Amy

> >

> >

> > >> Hello Amy and Group.....

> >

> > I am new to this forum and have also recently discovered that my mom is not

who I thought she was.....I have no contact at this time with nada. She seems to

have symptoms of BPD in the Waif, Hermit form. I am 55 years old and just

getting the big picture. How could I have been so naive?

> >

> > >> I was feeling so good for last days. Calm more or less and health not

bad.

> > >> Last night, I talked too long to husband about some new feelings coming

up re ma b. I hardly slept all might. I do not feel well now. Feel like I lost

ground or just more crap is coming up.

> > >> Maybe you can relate?

> >

> > >> I started thinking of this situation from HER side. The fact she had a

shitty upbringing, was abandoned through mother's early death and many other

issues about her life. It was not an easy one and she had no tools or role

models to guide herself from. Therapy in early years was pretty poor. In short,

I started to think, for all the crazy- making dad and ma b caused and still

are.....it is the best she could do and can do at the moment. Right or wrong it

just " IS " .

> >

> > >> Now, the " IS " is not healthy nor fair, to " normal people " but how do you

define normal? Ok, let's talk about healthy then. She is not healthy. She is

stuck and set on her ways and her role as Mother. Therefore she feels justified

in all she has done or didn't do. More so now than ever.

> >

> > >> From MY perspective, I see a relationship where I mothered a child-minded

mother, who had no support in her marriage or in even dealing with her

alcoholic son or scads of other of her life issues. So, I very early took on the

role of helping her. I was one she could count on to confide in and cry to. I

felt she had no one, and she didn't, so I enabled her. I also knew she was the

only tad of hope for a family I would ever have. My father was never

approachable to his death 11 Yeats ago. She was a by- product of his control

and her own dwarfed ability to have grown up. She was very weak and needy and

self- love was not there. All this and the violence we endured, splintered

myself and two brothers.

> >

> > >> So my brain rambled on through the night, just what I do not need, as

once again I am down on the floor feeling so sick over this. I got to the point

I could see WHY she behaved the way she has all throughout and that perhaps she

was more a victim of her cut short development than a mean, waif-like full BPD.

Really, I don't know the difference here, as each illness can run into other

conditions....nothing perfectly fits any of us forcing labels on people. They

only help for guidelines, I feel.

> >

> > >> I started to once to BLAME myself for not having not ability up to now to

understand her perspective, even if it is full of control etc. After all, isn't

my desire and want almost need, for a loving and understanding, patient, mother,

also an expectation on my part? Like she had her own expectations of me? Is

either more wrong or right than the other?

> >

> > >> Just the components of each perspective looks different. But each is

valid in their owner's eyes.

> >

> > >> So, I began to think it AGAIN IT WAS I WHO HURT HER and maybe she just

couldn't come to the mother in -law funeral easily, or always felt not enough to

come and stay with us ( never visited my kids or us for 11 years, we live 800

miles away ) and watch my own close family in action.....and feel threatened by

me when I would go out there talking new positive ideas and pressing her to open

up about our past abuse with good intent of trying to heal us all. Maybe, she

just couldn't handle all the issues. Maybe she just can't handle the strength

of ME! So she rebels in the manner she has... Right up to the last showing of

being so angry that I am mow in charge of her brother’s Will and that I am

ill, she shows, once again, little concern for my health issue. This was our

last communication.....so she went overboard ( as usual) and she said she did

have to put up with this anymore, and told me to tell husband to go to hell (

whom she recently turned on because she said HE was not FOR her but she could

see my husband was for ME...WFT is that? ) My husband was throughout, very

gentle with her and since all this last few years, has changed his demeanor

towards her. He is tired of her bullshit.

> >

> > >> So my guilt has come up again......I do not know if it is mom- made

from years of past conditioning or if what I write here has merit. I am

seemingly back under their control.....although I felt so good the last days.

> >

> > >> So I am back to spinning again.

> >

> > >> I DO KNOW it is so hard to have a REAL conversation with her at any time.

She fibs, now Lies, twists, manipulates, is self- absorbed, weak and wants

things always easy....never risks. Wants her way even if good intentions

sometimes, it is usually about reflection on how she looks to others. Hangs up

if you start to upset her especially about the truth of her and her

behavior.....or anything to do if her role as Mother is challenged. In

short..... Closeness and reality are severely limited with this person. If you

show strength and talk back, YOU ARE WRONG. If she gets on a spin and you raise

your voice to TRY to make a point in your defense, she raises her voice, so you

must shout to get her to stop or MAYBE shut up for a minute......THEN she gets

mad and tells me I am yelling at her, how DARE I do this to my mother and either

calls me some name or hangs up. I call back trying to explain and sometimes she

will seem to understand and other times it gets worse. If she understands at

that time...you can bet soon she will forget or heap it on the pile of all the

other times....but then so do I....trying to get her to help us sort through our

disagreements one by one. She says the past is the past, why must I bring it up

to her? I tell her, in order to fix us. She disagrees.

> >

> > >> I have been so foolish. I only wanted to have a mom and to help

her.....and fix her. I know now I cannot.

> >

> > >> She has so many excuses for everything and most are so lame.......BUT all

this is her choice to behave in any manner she chooses, regardless if viewed

right or wrong, healthy or plain insane, by me.

> > >> She will never be what I wanted in a mother. Fact. She is almost

impossible to deal with IF things do not go her way. Fact. Do not bring up the

past or anything she hurt you with because it will be your fault somehow at some

point….Fact.

> >

> > >> So, the dilemma. She is not calling me now for 3 weeks. She has dug in

her heels and changed towards MY changes towards her in the last few years and

for sure the last 5 months. She is also getting older, 85. And more worn out.

My brother alcoholic is likely pulling her (his trait) to his side, encouraging

her to stay away from me as he takes from her constantly.

> >

> > >> In her defence she is showing some bravado the last number of months, but

it has so further weakened the potential of a relationship because it is done

with a one-sided perspective.

> >

> > >> Now i see she could go on indefinitely now, not calling. This was not

this way even to a year ago. If I call, she feels she wins. If I do not, it

reinforces her justification I am a bad girl and stay away then bad daughter.

She feels abandoned again so her MIGHT is to now, to abandon me. This way she

feels vindicated and doesn't have to listen to me anymore about any truth. Also

she is not reviving her SUPPLY from me any longer.

> >

> > >> Even if I call…I cannot say I am sorry for being ME….and wanting

things to be REAL between us, and no more lies and pretenses and control. But

this will likely not change. If I never contact then I may lose this part of

me….and feel I did not try my best……..if she is willing to talk, I can

never go to these other issues again….because the same will repeat. I feel I

was always objectified as an off- spring with little validation of an individual

" self " . I was made to obey and be a good person by their rules.

> >

> > >> I am so lost right now. I thought I was on the right track. Maybe I

was…but this is a person I would not pick for a good friend. I am stuck with

her as a mother and lame one at that.

> > >

> > > I am and always was willing to talk issues out, as that is me but I am

tired of trying to come to the same point.

> >

> > >> She may die and my brothers may never even let me know as I am sure

they feel it is all my fault somehow. Especially the alcoholic…he also has

vested interest in HER Will….this I know. He will take full advantage of

coloring me more black. She is very swayable….flips like a fish out of water

when threatened.

> > >> Can you comment or relate here?. I really would appreciate some

experienced input. I want to move on and not make MY family here anymore

distressed than they are about my health and issues.

> >

> > >> In pain,

> > >> Twyla

>

[Guest guest]

I think you are right; I've noticed that in myself. I can comprehend something

on an intellectual level pretty quickly, but it takes time for a new perspective

or a radical change to register with me on an emotional level so that I can

accept it. Its like grief and mourning; it just takes as long as it takes to

pass through the stages of it until one reaches acceptance.

I'm betting that you will figure out a way to stop " spinning " that works for

you, in your own way and in your own time.

-Annie

>

> Good morning,

> Annie, I agree with everything you said. I am not as far along as you are,

but I know that is where I want to be. My mind can grasp all of it, but my

emotions are still trying to catch up. I guess that takes time. Thank you for

sharing your insights and experience. I am struggling right now with the idea

that I need to call my mother. I have not seen her or talked to her in about

three weeks (she never calls me, I always have to call her) and the guilt is

starting to get to me. When I do call I know I will hear about how long it has

been. If I say something about her calling me, I will hear the standard line

" You know I don't call people. " Which is true, she doesn't call anyone.

Everything goes in one direction. But, hopefully being a part of this group and

my counseling will help me to let go a little of that feeling of obligation

always hanging over my head. I so much want to let go of it. Yet I do not like

the idea of having no contact at all, I am not comfortable with that quite yet.

I have had occasions like that in the past with her, her choice. One time was

about 6 months and the other time was 8 mos where she did not speak to me and

would not respond to overtures on my part. There was a feeling of freedom for

me when that was going on. Once she decided to start speaking again, however,

the old feeling of guilt and obligation comes back for me. I know that

recognizing it and actively working on it will make a difference. But, it is a

slow process! Thanks everyone. Reading all of your posts really helps.

> Amy

[Guest guest]

Hi Wishing,

I am brand new to this forum so don't know all the rules and how to's of

responding here. I hope I do this right.

In reading your posts I can identify so much with much of what you said. I was

nc with my nada for 10 years and only started communicating with her again 3

years ago. The first yearwas fine, then she started up again and has got ten

steadily worse.

I have 2 Ts, I've been with my primary T 2 + years and my trauma T just over a

year now. Both have recently said, that based on the info I've shared, that they

think my mom has BPD. Of course they can't dx someone they've never counseled.

In coming to understand this and accepting it I too have entered into mourning.

I think it is mourning my hopes that someday my mother could be the mother I

wanted and needed. That if I just loved her enough and did enough that she

would love me and stop the abuse. It's hard knowing that we never will have the

mother we wanted or deserve. Every time she starts acting rational some part of

me hopes that mother will stay around and the " other " mothers have disappeared

for good. A futile hope.

While it helps me to know that it is my mother being BPD, not anything I have

done, that causes her to behave the way she does, I still am struggling with it.

My primary T has told me from the very beginning " You do not, did not and never

will have the parent you deserved. And you will not find her in friends, your

spouse or your therapist. You have to be a good parent to yourself. " Good

advice, but so hard to really understand and stop hoping.

Given that BP's are masters at manipulating, it is a constant struggle not to

blame myself for not " helping " her. She is a bottomless pit though and the more

I give the more she takes and wants until there is nothing left.

You talked about boundaries and the letter you wrote your mom about yours. That

is great that you did that! Now to keep them firm and not back down! You HAVE to

take care of you, because no-one else can do it for you.

There is a reason that my brother and 3 step siblings have nothing to do with

her. There is a reason that my husband won't allow her into our house. There one

thing in common with all of them, my nada. She is a BP and she is not going to

get better. That is so hard to accept, I will never have the relationship with

her that I so badly want.

I know that for me I thought that if I could just reason with my nada she'd

understand what she was doing and stop blaming me and everybody else. That's a

huge mistake on my part. Reality is, my nada is 77 years old, she's is BP and

she will NEVER be able to take responsibility for herself and her actions and

there is absolutely NO WAY to reason with her. It's a futile hope and

destructive to ourselves to think that our BPs can. They are incapable of any of

the above unless they are willing to admit their mental illness. At your and my

nada's ages, it is highly unlikely that will happen.It breaks my heart, how I

wish it weren't this way.

That last statement doesn't begin to describe the grief and pain of it all. So

yes I understand. I am so very sorry that you have to live with the same

situation.

(((Wishing)))

> > > > >

> > > > > Hello again,

> > > > >

> > > > > I just thought of another question that I didn't include in my last

post. I'm relatively new to the BPD discovery. I'm NC with my fada and just

initiated the communication to be LC with my nada. Needless to say I'm stressed

and upset. I read the letter I wrote nada explaining my boundaries, feelings,

etc to my therapist and sobbed. It kind of took me by surprise. I then came home

and took a bath and sobbed for at least another hour. I looked like hell this

morning. I then cried for a half hour before work and had to hold back tears a

couple times while at work. Not to say that I haven't cried about this issue in

the past...I definitely have BUT this felt different. It felt like someone had

died. Like I was truly mourning the childhood I never had and the parental

support that I'm beginning to accept will never be there. In the past I've

recognized the sadness and disappointment, but I think I hid behind anger and

irritation and frustration. I've never been good at identifying with the

overwhelming sorrow of what a crappy hand I was dealt.

> > > > >

> > > > > So here is my question - has anyone else experienced this? My hope is

that this is a turning point for me and that instead of staying so sad it will

be the beginning of a new acceptance and a new life moving forward. If anyone

else has hit this point, replaced anger and irritation with overwhelming sorrow,

please share what you did to get to a healthier spot. I don't want to slip into

old thinking patterns where I'm just pissed off.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks:)

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

It really is so sad. So overwhelmingly sad. I feel like it's something that so

many people have a hard time relating to. I've known all of this on a rational

level for a long time, but hearing the diagnosis (even though she's never met

her) and identifying with the adult survivors of these people so much really

threw me for a loop. I've found that others, mainly my husband, seem frustrated

that it's so hard for me to " accept " who she is. It's hard to believe that

someone who is supposed to protect you from day 1 was and is incapable of it. I

think the fact that my mom is more of the waif type complicates things for me a

bit. On one hand I feel so grateful that I didn't suffer more outright abuse,

but then I start to doubt myself and of course feel sorry for her.

I'm feeling better this week. Had a great weekend and I've kept exercising which

really helps me a lot. I actually talked to nada yesterday for about 15

minutes. We hadn't talked in almost 2 months. So weird...very superficial, but

that's exactly how I want it. I just have to keep reminding myself over and over

and over again that she will continue to let me down and she won't provide me

the support that I've craved so much for so long. Hopefully when she does it

again I'll be more prepared and won't fall apart so much.

The whole thing about how we need to parent ourselves still leaves me confused

as well. I realized that I was unknowingly leaning on my husband for this which

was a disaster. I really don't know exactly how to do it myself. My T tells me

that I need to do for myself what I'm so good at doing for my own son. He is my

world and I promised him the day he was born I would always do everything in my

power to protect him from the kind of pain that I've known. It's hard to

believe my parents didn't feel that same way towards me.

I've kind of rambled here...good luck w/ your journey:)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hello again,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I just thought of another question that I didn't include in my last

post. I'm relatively new to the BPD discovery. I'm NC with my fada and just

initiated the communication to be LC with my nada. Needless to say I'm stressed

and upset. I read the letter I wrote nada explaining my boundaries, feelings,

etc to my therapist and sobbed. It kind of took me by surprise. I then came home

and took a bath and sobbed for at least another hour. I looked like hell this

morning. I then cried for a half hour before work and had to hold back tears a

couple times while at work. Not to say that I haven't cried about this issue in

the past...I definitely have BUT this felt different. It felt like someone had

died. Like I was truly mourning the childhood I never had and the parental

support that I'm beginning to accept will never be there. In the past I've

recognized the sadness and disappointment, but I think I hid behind anger and

irritation and frustration. I've never been good at identifying with the

overwhelming sorrow of what a crappy hand I was dealt.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So here is my question - has anyone else experienced this? My hope

is that this is a turning point for me and that instead of staying so sad it

will be the beginning of a new acceptance and a new life moving forward. If

anyone else has hit this point, replaced anger and irritation with overwhelming

sorrow, please share what you did to get to a healthier spot. I don't want to

slip into old thinking patterns where I'm just pissed off.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks:)

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi again Wishing,

" My T tells me that I need to do for myself what I'm so good at doing for my own

son. "

Your T is right on target. Unfortunately it is easier for us to take good care

of others than it is for us to take care of ourselves. I don't know about you,

but I was a mother to my nada and learned from a very young age that my needs

were not important. It's a hard belief system to break.

I understood the parenting myself thing a little bit better recently. I actually

have 2 Ts, my primary and my trauma T. I have been doing EMDR with my trauma T.

She and I have identified what she calls " frozen ego states " . Egos states that

never developed beyond a certain age due to specific traumas which is not the

same as DID (multiple personalities). The critical self ego state started when I

was very young, 3 years old. She is very strong, independent, self critical (of

course)and wouldn't let others close, including the " adult me. " I had a very

hard time feeling compassion for that part of myself. Finally, during a recent

emdr session I was able to reach her, feel compassion for and love her. At one

point during that session I asked my T if I could not just " hold " her, but take

her into myself and protect her. Of course that is essential, but not something

I could do prior to that session. It was incredibly comforting to comfort

myself. Sounds odd doesn't it? I finally understood, what being a " good parent

to myself " meant. I felt so much more whole afterwards, I think for the first

time in my life. I find I am still struggling to do that as it is such a new

" skill " to me and partly because I am afraid of the intense emotions those parts

of myself feel. I am terrified of overwhelming sadness in the form of crying for

myself and intense rage, so I tend to stuff those emotions down. I'm hoping that

I can learn to parent myself with compassion and love automatically. I hope that

for you too!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hello again,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I just thought of another question that I didn't include in my

last post. I'm relatively new to the BPD discovery. I'm NC with my fada and just

initiated the communication to be LC with my nada. Needless to say I'm stressed

and upset. I read the letter I wrote nada explaining my boundaries, feelings,

etc to my therapist and sobbed. It kind of took me by surprise. I then came home

and took a bath and sobbed for at least another hour. I looked like hell this

morning. I then cried for a half hour before work and had to hold back tears a

couple times while at work. Not to say that I haven't cried about this issue in

the past...I definitely have BUT this felt different. It felt like someone had

died. Like I was truly mourning the childhood I never had and the parental

support that I'm beginning to accept will never be there. In the past I've

recognized the sadness and disappointment, but I think I hid behind anger and

irritation and frustration. I've never been good at identifying with the

overwhelming sorrow of what a crappy hand I was dealt.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So here is my question - has anyone else experienced this? My hope

is that this is a turning point for me and that instead of staying so sad it

will be the beginning of a new acceptance and a new life moving forward. If

anyone else has hit this point, replaced anger and irritation with overwhelming

sorrow, please share what you did to get to a healthier spot. I don't want to

slip into old thinking patterns where I'm just pissed off.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks:)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Wishing,

This could have been written by me, it is amazing how similar our experiences

and feelings are. It is hard to explain to those who have not been raised by a

hermit/waif type mother exactly how you feel about her. All the mixed emotions,

the responsibility, obligation, guilt. After all, I am the strong one, right?

Always have been. Nada is just unable to do anything for herself and it is up to

her husband and children to understand and pitch in, cover for her. Even though

it has been that way all of my life, hearing the diagnosis, like you said, threw

me quite a bit, too. It is like going through mourning, the finality of knowing

that I will never have the kind of mother that I need and there is absolutely

nothing that I or anyone else can do about it. She is 63 years old and

incapable of recognizing her problems and trying to help herself. Like you,

most of my contact with Nada now is superficial. I hate that, yet I keep it

that way to avoid more heartache. For the longest time my heart could not

accept what my head told me, that my parents simply did not care about me the

way most parents do about their children. I think they loved me, but the

complete self absorption of my mother and my father's enabling of it took front

seat. Anyway, thank you for sharing your feelings on here. I hope it helps to

know that others understand and empathize. I know it helps me.

Amy

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hello again,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I just thought of another question that I didn't include in my

last post. I'm relatively new to the BPD discovery. I'm NC with my fada and just

initiated the communication to be LC with my nada. Needless to say I'm stressed

and upset. I read the letter I wrote nada explaining my boundaries, feelings,

etc to my therapist and sobbed. It kind of took me by surprise. I then came home

and took a bath and sobbed for at least another hour. I looked like hell this

morning. I then cried for a half hour before work and had to hold back tears a

couple times while at work. Not to say that I haven't cried about this issue in

the past...I definitely have BUT this felt different. It felt like someone had

died. Like I was truly mourning the childhood I never had and the parental

support that I'm beginning to accept will never be there. In the past I've

recognized the sadness and disappointment, but I think I hid behind anger and

irritation and frustration. I've never been good at identifying with the

overwhelming sorrow of what a crappy hand I was dealt.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So here is my question - has anyone else experienced this? My hope

is that this is a turning point for me and that instead of staying so sad it

will be the beginning of a new acceptance and a new life moving forward. If

anyone else has hit this point, replaced anger and irritation with overwhelming

sorrow, please share what you did to get to a healthier spot. I don't want to

slip into old thinking patterns where I'm just pissed off.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks:)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >