Re: Is mainstream BPD Info really accurate?

[Guest guest]

That's what I've been noticing, too--and that's why I rarely read about BPD

in mainstream media. It just bugs me, and gives me more self-doubt or FOG

that drags me down. " Maybe I should be more forgiving of my dad... " that

sort of thing.

On one hand, I can see the media doing this as a way of portraying mental

illness in a balanced way, I guess. Kind of like depression. On the other

hand, they're really glossing over the dangers of having parents with

personality disorders, which is a FAR cry from depression.

I must admit, every time I share something on FB about depression or PTSD, I

always stop myself before I write, " I'm glad people are being more aware of

and understanding of mental illnesses... " because I know some people might

get on me for not being " forgiving " to my dad.

I'm not sure where I'm going with my thoughts on this--it's just harmful to

portray BPD as just another mental illness like depression or bipolar,

because personality disorders is a whole 'nother ball game. Many people tend

to lump it all together as " all mental illnesses are dangerous " , or " all

mental illnesses is just an illness and we need to be kind to those who are

suffering. "

Argh. At least we know better. And is it bad that sometimes I wish a BPD

diagnosis comes with a mandatory sterilization order? Extreme, I know, but

geez, they do cause a lot of pain on kids.

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 2:19 PM, charlottehoneychurch <

charlottehoneychurch@...> wrote:

> **

>

>

> Today I've been browsing the web looking for the latest, running media

> descriptions about bpd. I see that the NY Times has endoresed Dr. Linehan as

> the running expert, and here is a Q & A she did from a few years ago:

>

>

>

http://consults.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/19/expert-answers-on-borderline-person\

ality-disorder/

>

> I also saw the pamphlets and the descriptions at

> borderlinepersonalitydisorder.com, with the football player who's spoken

> out to try to help get awareness of bpd.

>

> I don't want to be unduly unsympathetic to those with bpd--I really don't.

> I just worry that the destructive nature of *parents with bpd is not being

> acknowledged, and that children of bpd parents could be in danger because of

> this. I worry for example about Marsha Linehan's first answer in the blog I

> post above--oh no, your sister is not manipulative, she's just *honestly

> hurting that much. I am *honestly not sure that's so. I am sure, in my

> bones, that my own nada harmed me intentionally, and derived pleasure from

> it. I saw the gleam in her eyes when she did so--how well I know that gleam!

> It will endure in my nightmares until I die, and maybe even after that.

>

> Maybe being abusive is a separate pathology/disorder, and in my nada's

> case, it was combined with BPD. I can't speak for anyone else but myself.

> But what I can say, for sure, is that my *own nada harmed me on purpose. My

> own nada projected her feelings and her fears onto ME, so that she would not

> HAVE to feel them. She might have claimed to be in severe discomfort--but

> what she actually did was anticipate her own discomfort with terror, and

> then quicky project it onto a weaker party, or severely abused a weaker

> party, so that she would not have to feel it herself. My nada has never

> self-mutilated--she wears diamonds and furs, and looks pracitally 12 years

> old even though she is well into her 60s.

>

> I just think we need to be really careful in claiming that bpds don't mean

> to hurt anyone, and we musn't be afraid of that. (Also in the blog of

> Linehan's I linked, she says there is no evidence that bods are violent.) I

> think that there may very well be a separate category of bpds that are the

> truly tortured, self-mutilating, often low-functioning type, that honestly

> don't seek to project their pain onto others--if so, my nada was not one of

> them. Maybe the type of bpd that my nada is needs a separate category, like,

> abusing bpd or projecting bpd...But whatever it is, I think that children

> need to be warned. The two websites I've just read are misleading.

>

> --Charlie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't think that *all* people with BPD intentionally hurt

others, but I think many a good number of them do. Whether they

do it intentionally or not doesn't really affect the outcome

though. My nada's worst misbehaviors probably weren't intended

to cause harm, but they did cause harm. Collatoral damage is

still damage. Their decision-making process is broken,

especially when it comes to dealing with any relationship that

involves emotion. I have no faith what-so-ever in any supposed

expert who claims they're not manipulative. Saying there is no

evidence that they're violent is unfathomable to me and seems

like a dangerous mistake. Simply looking at media reports about

children who've been abused and murdered will lead to evidence

of that sort.

I think a lot of what gets reported in the media about BPD

involves people who've ended up in the care of mental health

professionals which is not a valid cross-section of people with

BPD. The ones who end up getting treated are either the rare

ones who come to understand that they have a problem and the

ones who end up forcibly getting treatment because they've been

caught committing crimes or harming themselves enough to be

forced into treatment.

At 03:19 PM 10/29/2011 charlottehoneychurch wrote:

>Today I've been browsing the web looking for the latest,

>running media descriptions about bpd. I see that the NY Times

>has endoresed Dr. Linehan as the running expert, and here is a

>Q & A she did from a few years ago:

>

>http://consults.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/19/expert-answers-on-borderline-perso\

nality-disorder/

>

>I also saw the pamphlets and the descriptions at

>borderlinepersonalitydisorder.com, with the football player

>who's spoken out to try to help get awareness of bpd.

>

>I don't want to be unduly unsympathetic to those with bpd--I

>really don't. I just worry that the destructive nature of

>*parents with bpd is not being acknowledged, and that children

>of bpd parents could be in danger because of this. I worry for

>example about Marsha Linehan's first answer in the blog I post

>above--oh no, your sister is not manipulative, she's just

>*honestly hurting that much. I am *honestly not sure that's

>so. I am sure, in my bones, that my own nada harmed me

>intentionally, and derived pleasure from it. I saw the gleam

>in her eyes when she did so--how well I know that gleam! It

>will endure in my nightmares until I die, and maybe even after

>that.

>

>Maybe being abusive is a separate pathology/disorder, and in my

>nada's case, it was combined with BPD. I can't speak for

>anyone else but myself. But what I can say, for sure, is that

>my *own nada harmed me on purpose. My own nada projected her

>feelings and her fears onto ME, so that she would not HAVE to

>feel them. She might have claimed to be in severe

>discomfort--but what she actually did was anticipate her own

>discomfort with terror, and then quicky project it onto a

>weaker party, or severely abused a weaker party, so that she

>would not have to feel it herself. My nada has never

>self-mutilated--she wears diamonds and furs, and looks

>pracitally 12 years old even though she is well into her 60s.

>

>I just think we need to be really careful in claiming that bpds

>don't mean to hurt anyone, and we musn't be afraid of

>that. (Also in the blog of Linehan's I linked, she says there

>is no evidence that bods are violent.) I think that there may

>very well be a separate category of bpds that are the truly

>tortured, self-mutilating, often low-functioning type, that

>honestly don't seek to project their pain onto others--if so,

>my nada was not one of them. Maybe the type of bpd that my

>nada is needs a separate category, like, abusing bpd or

>projecting bpd...But whatever it is, I think that children need

>to be warned. The two websites I've just read are misleading.

>

>--Charlie

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

My nada definitely enjoyed it, but I think that is her antisocial pd side.

That said, much of the damage was when she was projecting, and she probably

projected because it hurt, and then projecting was rewarding, so there you

have a feedback loop, right? I haven't met a PURE bpd, they always seem to

have other bits, many many many are antisocial, at least to the degree of

enjoying other people's pain when sharing it.

> **

>

>

> I don't think that *all* people with BPD intentionally hurt

> others, but I think many a good number of them do. Whether they

> do it intentionally or not doesn't really affect the outcome

> though. My nada's worst misbehaviors probably weren't intended

> to cause harm, but they did cause harm. Collatoral damage is

> still damage. Their decision-making process is broken,

> especially when it comes to dealing with any relationship that

> involves emotion. I have no faith what-so-ever in any supposed

> expert who claims they're not manipulative. Saying there is no

> evidence that they're violent is unfathomable to me and seems

> like a dangerous mistake. Simply looking at media reports about

> children who've been abused and murdered will lead to evidence

> of that sort.

>

> I think a lot of what gets reported in the media about BPD

> involves people who've ended up in the care of mental health

> professionals which is not a valid cross-section of people with

> BPD. The ones who end up getting treated are either the rare

> ones who come to understand that they have a problem and the

> ones who end up forcibly getting treatment because they've been

> caught committing crimes or harming themselves enough to be

> forced into treatment.

>

>

> At 03:19 PM 10/29/2011 charlottehoneychurch wrote:

> >Today I've been browsing the web looking for the latest,

> >running media descriptions about bpd. I see that the NY Times

> >has endoresed Dr. Linehan as the running expert, and here is a

> >Q & A she did from a few years ago:

> >

> >

>

http://consults.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/19/expert-answers-on-borderline-person\

ality-disorder/

> >

> >I also saw the pamphlets and the descriptions at

> >borderlinepersonalitydisorder.com, with the football player

> >who's spoken out to try to help get awareness of bpd.

> >

> >I don't want to be unduly unsympathetic to those with bpd--I

> >really don't. I just worry that the destructive nature of

> >*parents with bpd is not being acknowledged, and that children

> >of bpd parents could be in danger because of this. I worry for

> >example about Marsha Linehan's first answer in the blog I post

> >above--oh no, your sister is not manipulative, she's just

> >*honestly hurting that much. I am *honestly not sure that's

> >so. I am sure, in my bones, that my own nada harmed me

> >intentionally, and derived pleasure from it. I saw the gleam

> >in her eyes when she did so--how well I know that gleam! It

> >will endure in my nightmares until I die, and maybe even after

> >that.

> >

> >Maybe being abusive is a separate pathology/disorder, and in my

> >nada's case, it was combined with BPD. I can't speak for

> >anyone else but myself. But what I can say, for sure, is that

> >my *own nada harmed me on purpose. My own nada projected her

> >feelings and her fears onto ME, so that she would not HAVE to

> >feel them. She might have claimed to be in severe

> >discomfort--but what she actually did was anticipate her own

> >discomfort with terror, and then quicky project it onto a

> >weaker party, or severely abused a weaker party, so that she

> >would not have to feel it herself. My nada has never

> >self-mutilated--she wears diamonds and furs, and looks

> >pracitally 12 years old even though she is well into her 60s.

> >

> >I just think we need to be really careful in claiming that bpds

> >don't mean to hurt anyone, and we musn't be afraid of

> >that. (Also in the blog of Linehan's I linked, she says there

> >is no evidence that bods are violent.) I think that there may

> >very well be a separate category of bpds that are the truly

> >tortured, self-mutilating, often low-functioning type, that

> >honestly don't seek to project their pain onto others--if so,

> >my nada was not one of them. Maybe the type of bpd that my

> >nada is needs a separate category, like, abusing bpd or

> >projecting bpd...But whatever it is, I think that children need

> >to be warned. The two websites I've just read are misleading.

> >

> >--Charlie

>

> --

> Katrina

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You took the words right out of my mouth. I've certainly experienced that sadism

from my dad, that glint in his eye, and I know where it's coming from - he

wanted me to suffer like he suffered.

I think a lot of what you describe in terms of the media is due to the sexist

interpretation of BPD as an illness suffered by young women - when in fact

people of all ages and genders have BPD traits / symptoms. Borderlines can

certainly have sociopathic traits, if anything the term " sociopath " might have

been invented for them, as opposed to " psychopath, - they have an overload of

emotions where psychopaths have too few but the effect is the same, they still

have low empathy, and rather than crushing egoism they have no sense of self -

there's no " there " there. A giant sucking absence which they fill with crank

religions, political extremism, sex, drugs, other people... everything is turned

up to 11 for them. That's tragic, sure, but we didn't deserve to suffer.

Our experience IS real, and it's the popular media that has it wrong when they

paint borderlines as being exclusively victims - in fact they can be perps as

well, although I have loved borderlines I have no illusions about this,

ultimately a BPD individual is like a normal person whose emotions are cranked

up so high that they have trouble surviving, I can certainly identify with that

up to a point as someone who gets " fleas " from them and perhaps even has

inherited traits - but I don't have their selfishness and lack of empathy, and

that's what BPD people exploit in me. I'm sure they don't mean to, but their

neediness can be exploitative, certainly.

Ultimately, though, the media always has its own angle. They need to sell

newspapers and a nice juicy Tragic Story, with easily identifiable Victims,

Villains, and Heroes, does just that.

Remember Princess Di? She had BPD, and her brother got loads of flak when one of

his letters to her was published, the one that included the phrase: " I know how

manipulation and deceit are parts of the illness. I hope you are getting

treatment for your mental problem. "

Isn't that classic BPD, though? The truth is that he loved her to bits, he'd

just been driven nuts by her behaviour, as happens to everyone who is intimate

with a sufferer. They are very trying people to say the least, and they can be

quite abusive and, like many sociopaths they often twist it round to seem like

they're the victim.

Look, it's been a long night; I hope this has helped. Please reply if it has.

Andy

>

> Today I've been browsing the web looking for the latest, running media

descriptions about bpd. I see that the NY Times has endoresed Dr. Linehan as

the running expert, and here is a Q & A she did from a few years ago:

>

>

http://consults.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/19/expert-answers-on-borderline-person\

ality-disorder/

>

> I also saw the pamphlets and the descriptions at

borderlinepersonalitydisorder.com, with the football player who's spoken out to

try to help get awareness of bpd.

>

> I don't want to be unduly unsympathetic to those with bpd--I really don't. I

just worry that the destructive nature of *parents with bpd is not being

acknowledged, and that children of bpd parents could be in danger because of

this. I worry for example about Marsha Linehan's first answer in the blog I

post above--oh no, your sister is not manipulative, she's just *honestly hurting

that much. I am *honestly not sure that's so. I am sure, in my bones, that my

own nada harmed me intentionally, and derived pleasure from it. I saw the gleam

in her eyes when she did so--how well I know that gleam! It will endure in my

nightmares until I die, and maybe even after that.

>

> Maybe being abusive is a separate pathology/disorder, and in my nada's case,

it was combined with BPD. I can't speak for anyone else but myself. But what I

can say, for sure, is that my *own nada harmed me on purpose. My own nada

projected her feelings and her fears onto ME, so that she would not HAVE to feel

them. She might have claimed to be in severe discomfort--but what she actually

did was anticipate her own discomfort with terror, and then quicky project it

onto a weaker party, or severely abused a weaker party, so that she would not

have to feel it herself. My nada has never self-mutilated--she wears diamonds

and furs, and looks pracitally 12 years old even though she is well into her

60s.

>

> I just think we need to be really careful in claiming that bpds don't mean to

hurt anyone, and we musn't be afraid of that. (Also in the blog of Linehan's I

linked, she says there is no evidence that bods are violent.) I think that

there may very well be a separate category of bpds that are the truly tortured,

self-mutilating, often low-functioning type, that honestly don't seek to project

their pain onto others--if so, my nada was not one of them. Maybe the type of

bpd that my nada is needs a separate category, like, abusing bpd or projecting

bpd...But whatever it is, I think that children need to be warned. The two

websites I've just read are misleading.

>

> --Charlie

>