what do I do?

October 31, 2011

I sit here every night and read all of your stories and relate to each and every

one of them and I really need some guidance here. I went to counseling again

with my nada and her therapist I left feeling really attacked by both of them

actually. Maybe this is not the right setting, I am new to all of this and this

discovery and so maybe I didn't handle it right. But her therapist said I should

be open about everything. So I was. I have read that if I said anything I would

become " the enemy " but I thought her therapist would redirect this. Instead I

felt attacked by both of them. The truth of the matter is that... I refuse to

believe that me and everyone else in her life is crazy and bad and doesnt tell

the truth... when it is so clearly her. This is consuming my life now and just

reminds me of why I didnt have her in my life to begin with. I dont think it is

healthy for either of us to continue on. WHat do you guys think?

October 31, 2011

Wow, sorry you're in this situation. The counselor is not a good one! It's

not you it's them!

> **

>

> I sit here every night and read all of your stories and relate to each and

> every one of them and I really need some guidance here. I went to

> counseling again with my nada and her therapist I left feeling really

> attacked by both of them actually. Maybe this is not the right setting, I

> am new to all of this and this discovery and so maybe I didn't handle it

> right. But her therapist said I should be open about everything. So I was.

> I have read that if I said anything I would become " the enemy " but I

> thought her therapist would redirect this. Instead I felt attacked by both

> of them. The truth of the matter is that... I refuse to believe that me and

> everyone else in her life is crazy and bad and doesnt tell the truth...

> when it is so clearly her. This is consuming my life now and just reminds

> me of why I didnt have her in my life to begin with. I dont think it is

> healthy for either of us to continue on. WHat do you guys think?

>

October 31, 2011

Yes, be sure you feel comfortable with your counselor. You need support, not to

feel an outsider with such an important issue.

Please consider shopping around.

Best

Twyla

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 31, 2011, at 10:03 PM, Millicent Kunstler

wrote:

> Wow, sorry you're in this situation. The counselor is not a good one! It's

> not you it's them!

>

>> **

>>

>> I sit here every night and read all of your stories and relate to each and

>> every one of them and I really need some guidance here. I went to

>> counseling again with my nada and her therapist I left feeling really

>> attacked by both of them actually. Maybe this is not the right setting, I

>> am new to all of this and this discovery and so maybe I didn't handle it

>> right. But her therapist said I should be open about everything. So I was.

>> I have read that if I said anything I would become " the enemy " but I

>> thought her therapist would redirect this. Instead I felt attacked by both

>> of them. The truth of the matter is that... I refuse to believe that me and

>> everyone else in her life is crazy and bad and doesnt tell the truth...

>> when it is so clearly her. This is consuming my life now and just reminds

>> me of why I didnt have her in my life to begin with. I dont think it is

>> healthy for either of us to continue on. WHat do you guys think?

>>

>

October 31, 2011

It sure doesn't sound like the right setting to me. I think that

if going to see this therapist makes you feel attacked, there's

no reason you should go again. It isn't your responsibility to

somehow make the counseling session go right. The therapist

should be doing that and seems to have failed to do so. How was

this therapist chosen? Does the therapist have experience with

BPD and how to treat it? If not, the therapist may believe

everything your nada is saying which would not make for

effective counseling.

In my opinion, it is probably pointless to go to joint

counseling sessions unless your nada has gotten to the point of

admitting to having a problem and is actively working to change

her behavior. If she's insisting that you are the problem,

there's no point to you going in my opinion. Nadas tend to

choose therapists who reinforce their misbehavior rather than

therapists who tell them they're mentally ill and try to get

them to change their behavior. They tend to lie to therapists

and they tend to quit seeing any therapist who understands what

is really going on and says so.

I think that you should find your own therapist who isn't also

your nada's therapist and who thus shouldn't feel any reason to

take her side. You should feel comfortable with the one you

choose. Don't feel bad if it takes more than one try to find the

right one.

At 11:30 PM 10/31/2011 pennyp23619 wrote:

>I sit here every night and read all of your stories and relate

>to each and every one of them and I really need some guidance

>here. I went to counseling again with my nada and her therapist

>I left feeling really attacked by both of them actually. Maybe

>this is not the right setting, I am new to all of this and this

>discovery and so maybe I didn't handle it right. But her

>therapist said I should be open about everything. So I was. I

>have read that if I said anything I would become " the enemy "

>but I thought her therapist would redirect this. Instead I felt

>attacked by both of them. The truth of the matter is that... I

>refuse to believe that me and everyone else in her life is

>crazy and bad and doesnt tell the truth... when it is so

>clearly her. This is consuming my life now and just reminds me

>of why I didnt have her in my life to begin with. I dont think

>it is healthy for either of us to continue on. WHat do you guys

>think?

--

Katrina

October 31, 2011

Thank you all. I think this is what I needed to hear. some reinforcement.Â I'm

not crazy! this is what I have been battling with my whole life and i'm finally

putting my foot down. Unfortunatly this therapist was her therapist and they

just started offering family counseling. In the beginning it was more like me

just listening to her explaining why everything was and isÂ everyone else's

fault and never hers. I thought maybe with her therapists help I could use this

as a vessle to support her to hopefully admittingÂ things or realizing

thingsÂ and then we could all understand who/what she is instead of continuing

to shut her out. Unfortunatly it seems to have backfired. I think I will take

your advice and find my own therapist or someone who will at least look at ALL

sides.

I hope I did this right and responded to everyone who responded to me. Thanks

again

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 9:42 PM

Subject: Re: what do I do?

Â

It sure doesn't sound like the right setting to me. I think that

if going to see this therapist makes you feel attacked, there's

no reason you should go again. It isn't your responsibility to

somehow make the counseling session go right. The therapist

should be doing that and seems to have failed to do so. How was

this therapist chosen? Does the therapist have experience with

BPD and how to treat it? If not, the therapist may believe

everything your nada is saying which would not make for

effective counseling.

In my opinion, it is probably pointless to go to joint

counseling sessions unless your nada has gotten to the point of

admitting to having a problem and is actively working to change

her behavior. If she's insisting that you are the problem,

there's no point to you going in my opinion. Nadas tend to

choose therapists who reinforce their misbehavior rather than

therapists who tell them they're mentally ill and try to get

them to change their behavior. They tend to lie to therapists

and they tend to quit seeing any therapist who understands what

is really going on and says so.

I think that you should find your own therapist who isn't also

your nada's therapist and who thus shouldn't feel any reason to

take her side. You should feel comfortable with the one you

choose. Don't feel bad if it takes more than one try to find the

right one.

At 11:30 PM 10/31/2011 pennyp23619 wrote:

>I sit here every night and read all of your stories and relate

>to each and every one of them and I really need some guidance

>here. I went to counseling again with my nada and her therapist

>I left feeling really attacked by both of them actually. Maybe

>this is not the right setting, I am new to all of this and this

>discovery and so maybe I didn't handle it right. But her

>therapist said I should be open about everything. So I was. I

>have read that if I said anything I would become " the enemy "

>but I thought her therapist would redirect this. Instead I felt

>attacked by both of them. The truth of the matter is that... I

>refuse to believe that me and everyone else in her life is

>crazy and bad and doesnt tell the truth... when it is so

>clearly her. This is consuming my life now and just reminds me

>of why I didnt have her in my life to begin with. I dont think

>it is healthy for either of us to continue on. WHat do you guys

>think?

--

Katrina

October 31, 2011

I agree with Katrina's and the other members' take on this:

(a) It is not healthy or productive to be in joint therapy with your nada unless

she has reached the point in her own individual therapy and healing where she

can accept personal responsibility for her own words and behaviors, and

( family therapy is not appropriate when the issue is borderline personality

disorder. That's like going to see a dentist when you're having chest pains;

its not the right specialist. Its important to find a psychologist who is

familiar with treating those with personality disorder (for your nada) and a

psychologist or therapist who is familiar with treating the adult children of

personality-disordered parents (for you.)

My own personal opinion (for you to take or leave) is that I wouldn't consider

the idea of family therapy until nada has been in steady, intensive therapy with

a bpd specialist for at least a year and she's made noticeable progress and

improvements in her behaviors.

But yes, if you are feeling ganged-up on and attacked by both your nada and the

therapist, then, its counter-productive for you to be having joint therapy with

your nada at this time, with this therapist.

-Annie

> >I sit here every night and read all of your stories and relate

> >to each and every one of them and I really need some guidance

> >here. I went to counseling again with my nada and her therapist

> >I left feeling really attacked by both of them actually. Maybe

> >this is not the right setting, I am new to all of this and this

> >discovery and so maybe I didn't handle it right. But her

> >therapist said I should be open about everything. So I was. I

> >have read that if I said anything I would become " the enemy "

> >but I thought her therapist would redirect this. Instead I felt

> >attacked by both of them. The truth of the matter is that... I

> >refuse to believe that me and everyone else in her life is

> >crazy and bad and doesnt tell the truth... when it is so

> >clearly her. This is consuming my life now and just reminds me

> >of why I didnt have her in my life to begin with. I dont think

> >it is healthy for either of us to continue on. WHat do you guys

> >think?

>

> --

> Katrina

>

October 31, 2011

Â

Thank you all. I think this is what I needed to hear. some reinforcement. I'm

not crazy! this is what I have been battling with my whole life and i'm finally

putting my foot down. Unfortunatly this therapist was her therapist and they

just started offering family counseling. In the beginning it was more like me

just listening to her explaining why everything was and is everyone else's fault

and never hers. I thought maybe with her therapists help I could use this as a

vessle to support her to hopefully admitting things or realizing things and then

we could all understand who/what she is instead of continuing to shut her out.

Unfortunatly it seems to have backfired. I think I will take your advice and

find my own therapist or someone who will at least look at ALL sides.

I hope I did this right and responded to everyone who responded to me. Thanks

again

October 31, 2011

I really appreciate having found this group right now, especially when I read

that not everyone has been officially diagnosed BPD yet. I felt I really do

belong here. Thanks for the support and knowledge in helping me to deal with

this. I do think she needs to work on her own first and hopefully with someone

who can be upfront with her and lead her to the right place. Then I will be

there.

> > >I sit here every night and read all of your stories and relate

> > >to each and every one of them and I really need some guidance

> > >here. I went to counseling again with my nada and her therapist

> > >I left feeling really attacked by both of them actually. Maybe

> > >this is not the right setting, I am new to all of this and this

> > >discovery and so maybe I didn't handle it right. But her

> > >therapist said I should be open about everything. So I was. I

> > >have read that if I said anything I would become " the enemy "

> > >but I thought her therapist would redirect this. Instead I felt

> > >attacked by both of them. The truth of the matter is that... I

> > >refuse to believe that me and everyone else in her life is

> > >crazy and bad and doesnt tell the truth... when it is so

> > >clearly her. This is consuming my life now and just reminds me

> > >of why I didnt have her in my life to begin with. I dont think

> > >it is healthy for either of us to continue on. WHat do you guys

> > >think?

> >

> > --

> > Katrina

> >

>

November 1, 2011

That is an extremely tough situation and I'm impressed by your ability to go

back. Her counselor sounds kind of one-sided. I would think a counselor of any

2 people, married or not, has to avoid the appearance of taking sides.

I'm not sure that I could continue that kind of therapy, if it were me.

>

> I sit here every night and read all of your stories and relate to each and

every one of them and I really need some guidance here. I went to counseling

again with my nada and her therapist I left feeling really attacked by both of

them actually. Maybe this is not the right setting, I am new to all of this and

this discovery and so maybe I didn't handle it right. But her therapist said I

should be open about everything. So I was. I have read that if I said anything I

would become " the enemy " but I thought her therapist would redirect this.

Instead I felt attacked by both of them. The truth of the matter is that... I

refuse to believe that me and everyone else in her life is crazy and bad and

doesnt tell the truth... when it is so clearly her. This is consuming my life

now and just reminds me of why I didnt have her in my life to begin with. I dont

think it is healthy for either of us to continue on. WHat do you guys think?

>

November 1, 2011

Check out resources on BPDCentral.com. Sad realities, first, BP s are

consumate con artists, and we see them play the " victim " card well and

often. They are sometimes even able to convince therapists that they

are right, they are fine and everyone around them is a crazy asshole.

For a while. Most therapists end up dropping thier BP pt s after a time

if they don t respond, because they will eventually challenge them on

something, however small, and then the BP will open up an industrial

sized drum of Essense of Crazy Bitch.

Check out the Movie " What About Bob? " for some comic relief. Bill

Murray plays a guy so needy, manipulative , and wacky, that therapists

leave the profession and leave town to get free of him.

The second sad reality is that some therapists have no business being in

the profession, and are, themselves, PD.

Either way, your Mom s therapist is NOT yours. You have no obligation to

go at all. If you feel it is helping her in some way to be a bit less F

ing crazy, then it may be worth while. If it is not, and you feel

attacked and beaten down by the encounter, then I would simply , and

without FOG, decline to go any further.

Again, if the therapist is not a PD, they will eventually figure it out.

One possible suggestion, make an appointment with the therapist and see

them as a Pt. Inform ( I m going to arbitrarily decide the T is a man )

him that 1. Based on your reading and lifetime observation of Nada s

behaviors, she is a BP. 2. You and the rest of her family are not the

crazy ones, and that you feel she is manipulating him just as she does

everyone else. 3. You felt attacked by him over your responce to a

lifetime of her crazy bullshit, and frankly did not appreciate it at

all. ( I would add, though you may not, good luck Asshole. ) 4. In

that you are seeing him in this session as a Pt, you wish to remind him

of his ethical requirement not to discuss your words, and in particular,

you absolutely do NOT give him permission to discuss it with Nada. and

5, that you will no longer participate in family therapy sessions.

I would suggest that you consider finding your own therapist to help YOU

deal with some of your stuff from life in the FOG.

Doug

>

> I sit here every night and read all of your stories and relate to each

and every one of them and I really need some guidance here. I went to

counseling again with my nada and her therapist I left feeling really

attacked by both of them actually. Maybe this is not the right setting,

I am new to all of this and this discovery and so maybe I didn't handle

it right. But her therapist said I should be open about everything. So I

was. I have read that if I said anything I would become " the enemy " but

I thought her therapist would redirect this. Instead I felt attacked by

both of them. The truth of the matter is that... I refuse to believe

that me and everyone else in her life is crazy and bad and doesnt tell

the truth... when it is so clearly her. This is consuming my life now

and just reminds me of why I didnt have her in my life to begin with. I

dont think it is healthy for either of us to continue on. WHat do you

guys think?

>

November 1, 2011

,

The more you describe this " counseling " the worse it sounds. BPD

can't be fixed by letting the person who has it trample on the

people around her at will. That's going to reinforce her bad

behavior, not improve it.

Sadly, I think you need to realize that it is unlikely that

she's ever going to realize that her behavior is wrong and that

things are her own fault. Part of what BPD is prevents the

people who have it from ever recognizing that there's anything

wrong with them or that they need to change. From their

perspective, the world is a very threatening place and they're

just protecting themselves. If you keep hoping that a therapist

will make her see who and what she is, you're most likely going

to continue to be disappointed and hurt. There are rare people

who accept a diagnosis of BPD as an adult and really work at

therapy, but they are unusual. It looks to me like the people

who are most likely to respond to treatment are the ones who are

diagnosed as young adults before they get set in their ways. A

good therapist of your own can do a lot with helping you learn

how to deal with who and what she is even if therapy doesn't end

up helping her much.

As for replying, you can do what you did and respond

individually, or you can combine your replies if you want to

respond with the same stuff to multiple people.

At 12:58 AM 11/01/2011 wrote:

Thank you all. I think this is what I needed to hear. some

reinforcement. I'm not crazy! this is what I have been battling

with my whole life and i'm finally putting my foot down.

Unfortunatly this therapist was her therapist and they just

started offering family counseling. In the beginning it was more

like me just listening to her explaining why everything was and

is everyone else's fault and never hers. I thought maybe with

her therapists help I could use this as a vessle to support her

to hopefully admitting things or realizing things and then we

could all understand who/what she is instead of continuing to

shut her out. Unfortunatly it seems to have backfired. I think I

will take your advice and find my own therapist or someone who

will at least look at ALL sides.

I hope I did this right and responded to everyone who responded

to me. Thanks again

--

Katrina

November 1, 2011

Wow I really appreciate all the support. I asked to speak to her therapist

alone, however she denied that because she feels it's all part of the therapy

process. When I started to express my concerns in therapy (I never said anything

about a pd) my nada blurted out, " Oh you think I'm bpd?! " Ummm apparently she

has heard this before, but never the less she was enraged and it went no where.

With that said I think I have to discontinue these sessions. It has already

created so much chaos in my family, school, and work life and it is not fair to

me and my loved ones. The FOG is overwhelming right now and I need to learn how

to deal with that on my own before adding to it. I was feeling like I hit a dead

end and after all the advice I feel like I now know why, because this isn't the

right time, place or setting for this. One good thing came out of this is that I

found this group.

November 2, 2011

I think the last thing you need is to be victimized all over again. And if it

felt like an attack, chances are that is what it was.

I would not agree to going into a therapy session with my mother unless she

allowed me to see her therapist first, alone, to talk about mom and her

diagnosis/prognosis. And I am pretty sure most Borderlines would not agree to

those terms.

Re: your mother's therapist. 2 things come to mind: 1) Your mother has done a

snow job on a weak minded therapist, or 2) Her therapist may see the BPD, but

since your mother is her client she may be willing to throw you under the bus to

gain your mother's trust or to just get your mother to a certain goal.

My mother would love to do this with me and my sister--get us on a couch to be

chastised by an authority figure for being " meanies " to her!