Guest guest Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Hi all, I'm struggling with this sadness I feel that my nada just isn't " there " for me. I can get so angry at her manipulations, but I think it is her absence that bothers me the most. I'm thinking of getting that book someone on here recommended The Emotionally Absent mother because that's at the heart of things for me. Today I had my yearly mammogram which was fortunately okay. Every year I approach this with terror because breast cancer has struck the women in my family four times and I am considered in a high risk territory. It's rare that I go in and it is simple - many times they've done extra views and sonograms. One time I had to have two biopsies and I'm barely forty. I've learned not to tell my nada in advance because either her indifference wounds me or she begins to go on and on about her own experience in a way that amps up my fear. And you better believe I was there for her with her surgeries when they happened. So I told her after the news was good today and she was just....nothing. I told her how scary it was knowing what she'd been through - no response. And then I changed the subject and we chatted about random superficial crap because that's all there is between us and all that can ever be at most. And that makes me sadder than I can say. And now I'm trying to remember how relieved and happy I felt before I called her that I dodged the bullet for one more year. I guess it'll come back to me in a little while... Eliza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Eliza, Congratulations!!!! I am so very happy for you that you cleared another year of tests!!! And keeping to yourself all that fear and anxiety is so difficult. It is great that you take such good care of yourself and get the annual tests done, and care so much about your family to share your great news. I am sorry that she is so self absorbed that just because it isn't about her she can't give you a huge hug and jump up and down that you did so well. She should have. Way to go girl!!! > > Hi all, I'm struggling with this sadness I feel that my nada just isn't " there " for me. I can get so angry at her manipulations, but I think it is her absence that bothers me the most. I'm thinking of getting that book someone on here recommended The Emotionally Absent mother because that's at the heart of things for me. Today I had my yearly mammogram which was fortunately okay. Every year I approach this with terror because breast cancer has struck the women in my family four times and I am considered in a high risk territory. It's rare that I go in and it is simple - many times they've done extra views and sonograms. One time I had to have two biopsies and I'm barely forty. I've learned not to tell my nada in advance because either her indifference wounds me or she begins to go on and on about her own experience in a way that amps up my fear. And you better believe I was there for her with her surgeries when they happened. So I told her after the news was good today and she was just....nothing. I told her how scary it was knowing what she'd been through - no response. And then I changed the subject and we chatted about random superficial crap because that's all there is between us and all that can ever be at most. And that makes me sadder than I can say. > > And now I'm trying to remember how relieved and happy I felt before I called her that I dodged the bullet for one more year. I guess it'll come back to me in a little while... > > Eliza > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Thanks so much - I needed that " way to go " ! Hugs to you! Eliza > > > > Hi all, I'm struggling with this sadness I feel that my nada just isn't " there " for me. I can get so angry at her manipulations, but I think it is her absence that bothers me the most. I'm thinking of getting that book someone on here recommended The Emotionally Absent mother because that's at the heart of things for me. Today I had my yearly mammogram which was fortunately okay. Every year I approach this with terror because breast cancer has struck the women in my family four times and I am considered in a high risk territory. It's rare that I go in and it is simple - many times they've done extra views and sonograms. One time I had to have two biopsies and I'm barely forty. I've learned not to tell my nada in advance because either her indifference wounds me or she begins to go on and on about her own experience in a way that amps up my fear. And you better believe I was there for her with her surgeries when they happened. So I told her after the news was good today and she was just....nothing. I told her how scary it was knowing what she'd been through - no response. And then I changed the subject and we chatted about random superficial crap because that's all there is between us and all that can ever be at most. And that makes me sadder than I can say. > > > > And now I'm trying to remember how relieved and happy I felt before I called her that I dodged the bullet for one more year. I guess it'll come back to me in a little while... > > > > Eliza > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Eliza, I'm glad your test results came out well this year and I'm sorry that she can't be there for you. Nadas seem to have two styles of reacting to other people's news. One is to try to make it all about them. The other is indifference. Both can be incredibly painful when you want someone to be there for you. I've learned to never share things that matter to me, good or bad, with my nada. No matter which way she reacts, I'm likely to feel worse afterward. It is much better to never put myself in the position of hoping for a normal reaction from her. I recommend surrounding yourself with friends and chosen " family " who care about you. At 10:47 PM 11/03/2011 eliza92@... wrote: >Hi all, I'm struggling with this sadness I feel that my nada >just isn't " there " for me. I can get so angry at her >manipulations, but I think it is her absence that bothers me >the most. I'm thinking of getting that book someone on here >recommended The Emotionally Absent mother because that's at the >heart of things for me. Today I had my yearly mammogram which >was fortunately okay. Every year I approach this with terror >because breast cancer has struck the women in my family four >times and I am considered in a high risk territory. It's rare >that I go in and it is simple - many times they've done extra >views and sonograms. One time I had to have two biopsies and >I'm barely forty. I've learned not to tell my nada in advance >because either her indifference wounds me or she begins to go >on and on about her own experience in a way that amps up my >fear. And you better believe I was there for her with her >surgeries when they happened. So I told her after the news >was good today and she was just....nothing. I told her how >scary it was knowing what she'd been through - no >response. And then I changed the subject and we chatted about >random superficial crap because that's all there is between us >and all that can ever be at most. And that makes me sadder >than I can say. > >And now I'm trying to remember how relieved and happy I felt >before I called her that I dodged the bullet for one more >year. I guess it'll come back to me in a little while... > >Eliza -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Thanks Katrina - you are right it is the same with my nada two options - it's about her or indifference. Anger only comes up if it is a threat to her self-image in some way. I'm not sure how long it will take me to deeply accept the truth of this. I do some self-protection in not telling her about the appointment at all in case the news is bad so I have privacy to deal with it. Still even her indifference to good news hit more of a nerve than I expected. Eliza > > Eliza, > I'm glad your test results came out well this year and I'm sorry > that she can't be there for you. Nadas seem to have two styles > of reacting to other people's news. One is to try to make it all > about them. The other is indifference. Both can be incredibly > painful when you want someone to be there for you. I've learned > to never share things that matter to me, good or bad, with my > nada. No matter which way she reacts, I'm likely to feel worse > afterward. It is much better to never put myself in the position > of hoping for a normal reaction from her. I recommend > surrounding yourself with friends and chosen " family " who care > about you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 HUGS sweetie, I'm proud of you for going. So many people skip those important screenings. I'm really glad the news was good! On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:08 PM, eliza92@... < eliza92@...> wrote: > ** > > > Thanks Katrina - you are right it is the same with my nada two options - > it's about her or indifference. Anger only comes up if it is a threat to > her self-image in some way. I'm not sure how long it will take me to deeply > accept the truth of this. I do some self-protection in not telling her > about the appointment at all in case the news is bad so I have privacy to > deal with it. Still even her indifference to good news hit more of a nerve > than I expected. > > Eliza > > > > > > > Eliza, > > I'm glad your test results came out well this year and I'm sorry > > that she can't be there for you. Nadas seem to have two styles > > of reacting to other people's news. One is to try to make it all > > about them. The other is indifference. Both can be incredibly > > painful when you want someone to be there for you. I've learned > > to never share things that matter to me, good or bad, with my > > nada. No matter which way she reacts, I'm likely to feel worse > > afterward. It is much better to never put myself in the position > > of hoping for a normal reaction from her. I recommend > > surrounding yourself with friends and chosen " family " who care > > about you. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 I actually just had a similar conversation with my T last night. After a pretty nasty phone conversation and email I didn't talk to my nada for over a month. I sent an email explaining boundaries and what I need and that I would never go through this again. I plan to just disconnect in the future w/o telling her why if she's out of line or upsetting to me. So we are now LC. I talked to her the other day for the first time. When I was explaining it to my T I said " it was fine, annoying but nothing dramatic " . Of course she wanted me to explain in more detail...what's another word for annoying. I explained that when she's " good " it's fake and we have to have a very superficial relationship. She has this strange voice that I've never really been able to explain to anyone but it bugs the hell out of me. I don't want to share a lot w/ her because it usually winds up hurting me when I do or she has some negative spin. And it's really hard to talk to someone when knowing that it's not genuine, not true to who either of us really are. My T's ideas on this made a lot of sense to me. She said that my nada was doing exactly as I had asked. She didn't talk about anything negative. She didn't complain and she didn't cross any of my boundaries. In reality, she really was trying her best to be what I need her to be. The sad part is she just never will be because of her own illness and it's really sad and something I Just need to fully accept. I can't fault her for doing her best and doing what I ask of her, no matter how disappointing it is that she's not the mother that I deserve to have. But I can't be mad at her for doing her best. And honestly, I think she was doing her best. It's just annoying that her best can't be any better. > > > > Eliza, > > I'm glad your test results came out well this year and I'm sorry > > that she can't be there for you. Nadas seem to have two styles > > of reacting to other people's news. One is to try to make it all > > about them. The other is indifference. Both can be incredibly > > painful when you want someone to be there for you. I've learned > > to never share things that matter to me, good or bad, with my > > nada. No matter which way she reacts, I'm likely to feel worse > > afterward. It is much better to never put myself in the position > > of hoping for a normal reaction from her. I recommend > > surrounding yourself with friends and chosen " family " who care > > about you. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 Yep, it's like their " best " is still so far short of what we actually need in a mother as a kid or an adult it just shines the light on how one-way the relationship is at the core. Like even if all hostilities and injuries could be resolved, there's still nothing much there. Eliza > > I actually just had a similar conversation with my T last night. After a pretty nasty phone conversation and email I didn't talk to my nada for over a month. I sent an email explaining boundaries and what I need and that I would never go through this again. I plan to just disconnect in the future w/o telling her why if she's out of line or upsetting to me. So we are now LC. > > I talked to her the other day for the first time. When I was explaining it to my T I said " it was fine, annoying but nothing dramatic " . Of course she wanted me to explain in more detail...what's another word for annoying. I explained that when she's " good " it's fake and we have to have a very superficial relationship. She has this strange voice that I've never really been able to explain to anyone but it bugs the hell out of me. I don't want to share a lot w/ her because it usually winds up hurting me when I do or she has some negative spin. And it's really hard to talk to someone when knowing that it's not genuine, not true to who either of us really are. > > My T's ideas on this made a lot of sense to me. She said that my nada was doing exactly as I had asked. She didn't talk about anything negative. She didn't complain and she didn't cross any of my boundaries. In reality, she really was trying her best to be what I need her to be. The sad part is she just never will be because of her own illness and it's really sad and something I Just need to fully accept. I can't fault her for doing her best and doing what I ask of her, no matter how disappointing it is that she's not the mother that I deserve to have. But I can't be mad at her for doing her best. And honestly, I think she was doing her best. It's just annoying that her best can't be any better. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 I know your fear, Eliza. Every year it is the same with me at mammogram time--cysts cause false positives, by now they should have them all mapped. My half-sis is a surviver so they consider me high risk too. Please accept the following in the caring spirit it is meant--You need to STOP waiting for nada to give you validation/nurturing. You need to stop holding out your hand to her, because she is incapable of grasping yours. Next time you feel the need to call her for reassurance, you should call anyone BUT her. By offering yourself to her again and again, you are allowing her to reject you over and over. This is a form of self punishment you are engaging in--she will never 'see the light' and relent or feel shame for ignoring your pleas. I, too, spent decades trying to elicit care and nurturing from my nada. What was so confusing is that she would voluntarily mother me at times--or so it seemed. She would say things that might indicate she cared about my welfare. But in hindsight, these situations were when her fears made her over-protective and controlling. Her 'caring words of concern' were aimed so that I could reassure her that HER world was ok. That is so messed up. These BPD's are very crafty at getting THEIR needs met. Do not mistake their actions as genuine care for others--it is only make believe. Your mother probably does love you, to the extent she understands love. But she is not safe to trust your heart to. (((hugs))) > > Hi all, I'm struggling with this sadness I feel that my nada just isn't " there " for me. I can get so angry at her manipulations, but I think it is her absence that bothers me the most. I'm thinking of getting that book someone on here recommended The Emotionally Absent mother because that's at the heart of things for me. Today I had my yearly mammogram which was fortunately okay. Every year I approach this with terror because breast cancer has struck the women in my family four times and I am considered in a high risk territory. It's rare that I go in and it is simple - many times they've done extra views and sonograms. One time I had to have two biopsies and I'm barely forty. I've learned not to tell my nada in advance because either her indifference wounds me or she begins to go on and on about her own experience in a way that amps up my fear. And you better believe I was there for her with her surgeries when they happened. So I told her after the news was good today and she was just....nothing. I told her how scary it was knowing what she'd been through - no response. And then I changed the subject and we chatted about random superficial crap because that's all there is between us and all that can ever be at most. And that makes me sadder than I can say. > > And now I'm trying to remember how relieved and happy I felt before I called her that I dodged the bullet for one more year. I guess it'll come back to me in a little while... > > Eliza > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Thanks Echo - you are so right about how amazingly crafty these nadas are. I have noticed times when mine seems caring coincide with getting her needs met like you describe. I too wish I could just STOP...and I have to a large degree about many many things but every now and then I slip up. When I told her my good news I didn't make a special call to tell her or make a big deal about it, I was just sharing what happened at a regularly scheduled call. I didn't expect her reaction to be so amazingly not there - normally she fakes caring better than that. But yes, I need to get to a point where I share *nothing* of any importance good or bad. I'm sorry to hear mammo time is stressful for you too, but just like you say as time goes on they seem to have things mapped and there are less surprises. Wishing you low stress mammos in the future! Eliza > > I know your fear, Eliza. Every year it is the same with me at mammogram time--cysts cause false positives, by now they should have them all mapped. My half-sis is a surviver so they consider me high risk too. > > Please accept the following in the caring spirit it is meant--You need to STOP waiting for nada to give you validation/nurturing. You need to stop holding out your hand to her, because she is incapable of grasping yours. Next time you feel the need to call her for reassurance, you should call anyone BUT her. By offering yourself to her again and again, you are allowing her to reject you over and over. This is a form of self punishment you are engaging in--she will never 'see the light' and relent or feel shame for ignoring your pleas. > > I, too, spent decades trying to elicit care and nurturing from my nada. What was so confusing is that she would voluntarily mother me at times--or so it seemed. She would say things that might indicate she cared about my welfare. But in hindsight, these situations were when her fears made her over-protective and controlling. Her 'caring words of concern' were aimed so that I could reassure her that HER world was ok. That is so messed up. > > These BPD's are very crafty at getting THEIR needs met. Do not mistake their actions as genuine care for others--it is only make believe. Your mother probably does love you, to the extent she understands love. But she is not safe to trust your heart to. > > (((hugs))) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 ((((((((((Dear Eliza,)))))))))) I'm so inspired by the way you have internalized a strong, healthy regime of self-care! Congratulations on another year of clear tests results! I am in my late 50s, and still grieve for the mother I didn't have. I long for her, I dream of her, I cry for her, and yet, if I saw her coming, I'd run through a herd of buffalo in the opposite direction, ( probably still crying I want my mommy!) to get out of the reach of her voice. I used to wonder when I would stop wanting her so terribly much, but now, I think I understand that I always will feel this way, to some extent. When this becomes overwhelming, the only thing I know to do, is to go ahead and cry, and/or find some way to honor the feelings of longing and grief. As an artist, I paint, or draw, but a dear friend of mine, who is a musician, works out on the violin, another friend tears paper into tiny pieces, and burns them in the fireplace, the object being to honor and vent the emotions, rather than some end result of creation. I don't think I'll ever cry it all out, but the lost and lonely child I was, still longs to be loved and caressed by her, when she wasn't batshit crazy. It is so hard to understand why they do ,what they do, I had a wonderful, gentle relative, who used to shake her head, and say, " Honey, she's not the best of herself right now, just give her some time . . . " but we're running out of time now. She's elderly, and I've had health problems, and realize that this isn't going to get better in any kind of way that will allow us to have a " normal " mother - daughter relationship. It sounds to me, as though you have been the adult in your relationship with your Nada, her emotional support and care giver. PDs are, in most ways, perpetual children, hungry, needy, petulant, completely unable to see, or respond to others needs. They are, as you say, superficial. Its the best they can do. They don't have the wiring for compassion, empathy or selflessness, or, for that matter, real joy, peace, or contentment. They are just anxious, emotionally hungry, and deeply self centered. I wish it was different. I wish I could take you out for lunch to celebrate your good news! I wish I could have been waiting with you, when you got the news, and squeeled and jumped up and down, in that silly way we women do when we're excited and relieved, and hugged you, and done something silly for lunch, two deserts, extra chocolate, and wine too! Darling girl, you're alive, and healthy, celebrate your life, and the love and joy and beauty that *is*your life, and know that this night there are those in the world who are glad you are in it! I'm going off to have a double dip of chocolate ice cream in your honor, to celebrate your good news! Mazel Tov, Sunspot On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 10:47 PM, eliza92@... < eliza92@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi all, I'm struggling with this sadness I feel that my nada just isn't > " there " for me. I can get so angry at her manipulations, but I think it is > her absence that bothers me the most. I'm thinking of getting that book > someone on here recommended The Emotionally Absent mother because that's at > the heart of things for me. Today I had my yearly mammogram which was > fortunately okay. Every year I approach this with terror because breast > cancer has struck the women in my family four times and I am considered in > a high risk territory. It's rare that I go in and it is simple - many times > they've done extra views and sonograms. One time I had to have two biopsies > and I'm barely forty. I've learned not to tell my nada in advance because > either her indifference wounds me or she begins to go on and on about her > own experience in a way that amps up my fear. And you better believe I was > there for her with her surgeries when they happened. So I told her after > the news was good today and she was just....nothing. I told her how scary > it was knowing what she'd been through - no response. And then I changed > the subject and we chatted about random superficial crap because that's all > there is between us and all that can ever be at most. And that makes me > sadder than I can say. > > And now I'm trying to remember how relieved and happy I felt before I > called her that I dodged the bullet for one more year. I guess it'll come > back to me in a little while... > > Eliza > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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