NEMSES educational guidelines

[Guest guest]

It is time that the practices of NHTSA be scrutinized by its stakeholders.

We are the stakeholders in the processes NHTSA is carrying on with NAEMSE.

I will shortly be writing to the Inspector General to demand a review of

NHTSA's grant awards and contracting policies as related to NAEMSE. I will

also

be advising our Congressional representatives of these problems and seeking

their help in getting an investigation of the grants awarded to NAEMSE going.

Questions that need to be answered that would have to come from NAEMSE, which

I will be demanding that it answer, include these.

Who has been paid by NAEMSE to write grant applications, and how much has

been paid?

What is the process for hiring grant writers?

What is the process for awarding positions on item writing committees and

what body or person determines who will be asked to become members?

Is there a formal application process for requesting appointment to a

committee?

Are applications for committee membership retained?

Who are the persons who requested committee memberships who were not chosen?

What were the criteria for picking committee members?

What are committee members paid for services?

Are minutes of all meetings of the Board kept and available for inspection by

members of NAEMSE?

Will NAEMSE make those minutes available for inspection without court order?

How many paid full-time and part-time employees does NAEMSE have? What are

they paid? What are their job descriptions? What are the qualifications of

the currently employed staff members?

These are just some of the questions that must be asked of NAEMSE and

answered by it.

If you have further questions, please state them. I will be formulating a

request soon.

Gene Gandy, JD, LP

>

> Wes, it's not just an NHTSA phenomenon. NIH and CDC does it also. Once you

> figure out how to get into the federal funding stream for research, it's

> pretty easy to camp out under the waterfall for the rest of your career.

>

> Barry

>

> Barry Sharp, MSHP, CHES

> Exercise Coordinator

> Community Preparedness Section

> Texas Department of State Health Services

>

> Phone: x2665

> BlackBerry:

> Fax:

> Barry.Sharp@...

>

> Re: NEMSES educational guidelines

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bob:

Maybe it's my legal training kicking in, but I'm really curious how NHTSA

manages to keep awarding interrelated contracts and grants to the same

researchers? You'd think the Feds would have some sort of regulations and

policies regarding how such things are awarded.

Or is it possible that only the " crop of groveling handmaidens " are capable of

producing EMS research? I guess NHTSA thinks so. Thank goodness we have such

brilliant minds who obviously know what's best for us. I should be a good sheep

now and accept what is presented to me. And of course, accept a scolding from a

representative handmaiden for not submitting my comments on a vaporware

curriculum that they never wanted to share anyways.

-Wes

Re: NEMSES educational guidelines

Wes,

NHTSA has always cultivated its own crop of groveling handmaidens, whose

raison d'etre is to always submit to the will of NHTSA, at the risk of being

" uninvited " from future national committees. It's been going on since the

early 1980's.

Though remarkably under-publicized, most NHTSA meetings are open to

attendance, but generally not to outside comment until initial drafts are

prepared. NHTSA learned early on that " it's easier to ask for forgiveness

than it is to ask for permission " . This is best achieved by maintaining a

stable of lemmings who are chosen specifically for that purpose.

Bob Kellow

If you can read this message - thank a teacher.

And, because it's in English - thank a soldier.

NEMSES educational guidelines

>

>

> Go to this site and read it. Click on all the Members link, and look

> carefully at it.

>

> http://www.nemses.org/

>

> The NEMSES has a contract to develop an EMS curriculum to shove down our

> throats in Texas. The standards that they will develop will demean what

> the best

> paramedic programs are doing, and they won't require a minimum level of

> care.

> but they will institute a ceiling on skills that can be done, and thereby

> ruin some of the best systems in the state.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wes, it's not just an NHTSA phenomenon. NIH and CDC does it also. Once you

figure out how to get into the federal funding stream for research, it's pretty

easy to camp out under the waterfall for the rest of your career.

Barry

Barry Sharp, MSHP, CHES

Exercise Coordinator

Community Preparedness Section

Texas Department of State Health Services

Phone: x2665

BlackBerry:

Fax:

Barry.Sharp@...

Re: NEMSES educational guidelines

Wes,

NHTSA has always cultivated its own crop of groveling handmaidens, whose

raison d'etre is to always submit to the will of NHTSA, at the risk of being

" uninvited " from future national committees. It's been going on since the

early 1980's.

Though remarkably under-publicized, most NHTSA meetings are open to

attendance, but generally not to outside comment until initial drafts are

prepared. NHTSA learned early on that " it's easier to ask for forgiveness

than it is to ask for permission " . This is best achieved by maintaining a

stable of lemmings who are chosen specifically for that purpose.

Bob Kellow

If you can read this message - thank a teacher.

And, because it's in English - thank a soldier.

NEMSES educational guidelines

>

>

> Go to this site and read it. Click on all the Members link, and look

> carefully at it.

>

> http://www.nemses. <http://www.nemses.org/> org/

>

> The NEMSES has a contract to develop an EMS curriculum to shove down our

> throats in Texas. The standards that they will develop will demean what

> the best

> paramedic programs are doing, and they won't require a minimum level of

> care.

> but they will institute a ceiling on skills that can be done, and thereby

> ruin some of the best systems in the state.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gene:

I would not limit the request to NHTSA's contracting and grant processes with

NAEMSE. I think NREMT and several other institutions and individuals bear such

scrutiny.

As Bob Kellow mentioned, NHTSA has a " crop of groveling handmaidens. " I think

that NAEMSE is only of the handmaidens. There are others -- and those are

easily determined. I think we can all pick a few names and organizations that

are invariably producing research for NHTSA and serving on the committees.

-Wes

Re: NEMSES educational guidelines

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wes & Gene:

NHTSA, FEMA and other federal agencies with EMS ties, has managed to

cultivate what amounts to a " closed society " of " stakeholder "

representatives and constituents.

They rarely pay these attendees for anything, thus some of the qualifying

criteria would be to: have a fat annual travel budget; be willing and able

to participate in quickly called meetings in far away locations; stay at

said meetings for days on end with no employment consequences back home;

and, have your employer continue to pay your salary while attending the

meetings and working on projects.

The people who participate in federal EMS-related activities aren't making

any money. But, what they indeed wind up doing is legitimizing the agendas,

policy initiatives and products of these agencies by lending the imprimatur

of outside " stakeholder " consultation, support and acceptance.

The " EMS Agenda for the Future " is a good example. It is merely a lightly

modified hybrid version of what Boyd said 33 years ago. Look at who

participated in creating that document, then ask yourself - " Why are these

the same people who have been drafting NHTSA's documents and pushing their

agendas for the past 25+ years? " . The answer is all too obvious. Having

taught their parrots to speak only their language, it's not likely that

these agencies will exchange them for ones they'll have to train or retrain.

Bob Kellow

If you can read this message - thank a teacher.

And, because it's in English - thank a soldier.

NEMSES educational guidelines

>>

>>

>> Go to this site and read it. Click on all the Members link, and look

>> carefully at it.

>>

>> http://www.nemses.org/

>>

>> The NEMSES has a contract to develop an EMS curriculum to shove down our

>> throats in Texas. The standards that they will develop will demean what

>> the best

>> paramedic programs are doing, and they won't require a minimum level of

>> care.

>> but they will institute a ceiling on skills that can be done, and thereby

>> ruin some of the best systems in the state.

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Good thoughts.

GG

>

> Gene:

>

> I would not limit the request to NHTSA's contracting and grant processes

> with NAEMSE. I think NREMT and several other institutions and individuals bear

> such scrutiny.

>

> As Bob Kellow mentioned, NHTSA has a " crop of groveling handmaidens. As Bob

> Kellow mentioned, NHTSA has a " crop of groveling handmaidens.<wbr> " I think

> that NAEMSE is only of the handmaidens. There are others -- and those are

> easily determined. I think we can all pick a few names and organizations that

>

> -Wes

>

>

> Re: NEMSES educational guidelines

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know whether NAEMSE is dirty or not. That's why I ask these

questions. I'm a stakeholder and taxpayer. I have an absolute right to ask

these

questions, and they have the absolute duty to answer them.

I do know that in a country where there are thousands of EMS educators, it

seems strange that the same names and faces always end up on these committees.

Surely there's room for other's ideas and participation.

Government ought to be transparent. NAEMSE is fulfilling a government

contract. If it's on the up and up, then we'll see that it is.

The stakes are too high not to ask the hard questions.

Gene G.

[Guest guest]

So,

We have always complained that EMS never organizes and never forms a

representative group that can speak...and then we cry and whine because " EMS is

too divided and we can't support each other...we eat our young " ...yet here we

have NAEMSE...the National Association of EMS Educators. A non-profit

organization to support and fight for EMS Education...and we are accusing them

of all types of wrong doing because we didn't get an engraved invitation in the

mail to their party?

Then we have the branch of the Federal Gov't that has always had input

(oversight not used intentionally) over EMS...and according to the EMS Agenda

for the Future (a document that many EMS people put together a few years back)

we need to have a scope of practice and a new National Standard Curriculum based

upon the SOP. Soooooo NHTSA, following OUR agenda for the future......reaches

out to the NATIONAL EMS Educator's association...the group that educators have

formed to support and stand up for more and better EMS Education...and we are

some how PISSED OFF????

So, we are going to write to the Federal Gov't and ask " How dare you give a

project to re-write EMS Education Standards to the EMS Education

Association...WHO GAVE YOU THAT RIGHT???? " PS: Send us all this stuff on NAEMSE

because this has to be dirty... "

Hmmmmmmm.....

Dudley

PS: How about asking NAEMSE the questions you have about the NAEMSE? Of

course...we probably already have and they refused to say anything because they

hired all the bad people National Registry recently let go because Texas is mad

because someone who paid CHEAP money to get a bargain Paramedic course out of a

garage somewhere couldn't pass the NR test after 26 times...

Re: NEMSES educational guidelines

>

>

[Guest guest]

Okay...so these organizations are getting NHTSA assignments / contracts...if

you don't like it get in line and start filling out applications. I doubt if the

mailbox is teaming with organizations that want to tackle EMS work because if

their organization is chosen...everyone who is not a member of their

organization stands back in the weeds and starts lobbing grenades...

I can see 15 to 20 organizations lining up for that....IF NAEMSE is not going

to re-write the National Standard Curriculum...who is? EMSAT? TAA? AAA? IAFF?

NFPA? NHTSA themselves (ps. if you think this is good go read the CMS

regulations off of the ambulance fee schedule...CMS writing with stakeholder

input...nice!)

Don't like the outcome? Get yourself in line and get busy.

Dudley

Re: NEMSES educational guidelines

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm off Monday, I'll see what I can do...

-Meris NREMT-P

FTO MetroCare Services EMS

Austin, TX

>

> The survey thing is a great idea, Meris. I see that you are in Austin.

> Can you go talk to Harrell or Maxie Bishop personally and see what

> they think about that? I think a survey in the Magazine would be a great

> place to start if we could figure out how to colate that information when it

> comes back in and then what to do with that information if it is successful.

>

> Jane Hill

>

[Guest guest]

Why not use an online survey format, like survey monkey. It provides a

tallied response plus you ca set ity up and activate it at your

convinence. We have used it with EMS Leadership Academy and it works

well.

>>> RescueGirl96@... 8/17/2006 9:50 PM >>>

I'm off Monday, I'll see what I can do...

-Meris NREMT-P

FTO MetroCare Services EMS

Austin, TX

>

> The survey thing is a great idea, Meris. I see that you are in

Austin.

> Can you go talk to Harrell or Maxie Bishop personally and see

what

> they think about that? I think a survey in the Magazine would be a

great

> place to start if we could figure out how to colate that information

when it

> comes back in and then what to do with that information if it is

successful.

>

> Jane Hill

>

[Guest guest]

That sounds like a good idea... We really need to work on content though.

It needs to be objective, and some questions need not be directly related to

the SoP document itself... Perhaps some questions about how we can improve

the quality of EMS overall. Dream big... Start little...

-Meris NREMT-P

FTO MetroCare Services EMS

Austin, TX

>

> Why not use an online survey format, like survey monkey. It provides a

> tallied response plus you ca set ity up and activate it at your

> convinence. We have used it with EMS Leadership Academy and it works

> well.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Okay...so these organizations are getting NHTSA assignments / contracts...if

you don't like it get in line and start filling out applications. I doubt if the

mailbox is teaming with organizations that want to tackle EMS work because if

their organization is chosen...everyone who is not a member of their

organization stands back in the weeds and starts lobbing grenades...

M> There is a lack of training with regards to research in EMS in

general, so there aren't many folks in EMS qualified to participate in

the design of, much less direct the design of research projects.

Research, especially medical research, is a skill set that is learned

in the process of college-level scientific courses and continues well

past the typical bachelor's degree. EMS in Texas has decided to

effectively shun higher education and as such is not set to

participate in the design and implementation of research that will

meet scientific standards - as a general, broad-brush view. Those

organizations most active in EMS research are either led by doctors

and nurses or are emplaced in academia... where research (and

participation/direction) are more common.

M> I worked as a paramedic supervisor for a drug research

company. It was a challenge to find paramedics who wanted to work for

us that were willing to study the drugs that the subjects would be

taking so that as the " point men " for health/safety, and the person

who would be writing up " adverse event " documentation for forwarding

on to the research director (D.O.), could write events in such a way

as to describe the medical nature of the problem so that the

researchers could make a determination on whether or not the drug

being tested was likely to be involved. Simple things such as

describing headaches and doing a full qualitative and quantitative

assessment of a simple headache (where, how, when, how long, 0-10,

interferes with normal activities? sleep? nausea? relieved by what?

when? reduced? increased? etc.) seemed to frustrate most paramedics

- not because they didn't KNOW what to ask - they weren't conditioned

to ask it. They asked enough to determine whether or not it needed

treatment, but rarely enough to give researchers a clear idea of

causality. Ever wonder why *every* prescription drug lists " headache "

as a possible side effect? Now you know...

> I can see 15 to 20 organizations lining up for that....IF NAEMSE is not

going to re-write the National Standard Curriculum...who is? EMSAT? TAA? AAA?

IAFF? NFPA? NHTSA themselves (ps. if you think this is good go read the CMS

regulations off of the ambulance fee schedule...CMS writing with stakeholder

input...nice!)

M> Interesting that you mention the NFPA, since I'm very aware of

their standards process. Their process is very, very inclusive and

follows a well-defined format of design, input, change, feedback and

publication. They strive to include all potential stakeholders on

standards committees. They've even got EMS committees that make

standards related to EMS, including safety equipment. How many of you

have read the proposed standards and submitted a comment about

something in them? How many of you know who are on the various EMS

committees that make the standards for the gear you wear? How many of

you know what NFPA 1999 certified means (not literally, just for

example), rather than guessing based on a label - and you know what

tests an item has been through to determine its safety and

applicability to standards? How many of you know what the ACTUAL

definition of a CAD system is per NFPA standards, and that it

*requires* a system with backup and failover capability in place (no

single-computer systems qualify under NFPA standards)? How many knew

that NFPA *had* standards for CAD systems?

Then again, maybe I'm not being fair to EMS. How many firefighters

know? For that matter, how many police know the NIJ criteria for

their bullet resistant vests, and whether or not their boots and

uniforms are bloodborne pathogen and chemical resistant? Or whether

it will melt or burn in a fire? I'm not sure EMS is much better, but

if we want to get ahead - we should be.

Mike :/