Guest guest Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Around here ( County), we dispatch two engine companies to collisions on freeways and busy roadways. The second engine is a " scene safety " engine used to block traffic. Additionally, if I remember correctly, it's EMS's policy that traffic vests be worn on collision scenes. My volunteer FD requires bunker gear to be worn at collisions. Hope this helps some. -Wes Ogilvie In a message dated 1/26/2008 11:18:12 P.M. Central Standard Time, THEDUDMAN@... writes: Got a question for y'all. What are/do you or your agency do to increase the safety of you and your fellow responders while on scenes on active roadways.? What do you try to do, what is required, and what suggestions do you have to make it safer?? Thanks. Dudley __________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - _http://webmail.http://_ (http://webmail.aol.com/) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\ 5 48) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 That's good. I applaud it. But how does reflective gear help you when idiots are coming at you fast and don't have time to react? The thing, in my judgment, is to put the STOP signs far enough from the scene that there won't be any secondary crases. That may mean shutting down traffic a half mile ahead of the scene. GG > > Around here ( County), we dispatch two engine companies to collisions > on freeways and busy roadways. The second engine is a " scene safety " engine > used to block traffic. > > Additionally, if I remember correctly, it's EMS's policy that traffic vests > be worn on collision scenes. My volunteer FD requires bunker gear to be worn > at collisions. > > Hope this helps some. > > -Wes Ogilvie > > > In a message dated 1/26/2008 11:18:12 P.M. Central Standard Time, > THEDUDMAN@... writes: > > Got a question for y'all. What are/do you or your agency do to increase the > safety of you and your fellow responders while on scenes on active > roadways.? > What do you try to do, what is required, and what suggestions do you have to > make it safer?? > > Thanks. > > Dudley > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - > _http://webmail.http://w (http://webmail.http://w) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Got a question for y'all. What are/do you or your agency do to increase the safety of you and your fellow responders while on scenes on active roadways.? What do you try to do, what is required, and what suggestions do you have to make it safer?? Thanks. Dudley ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 We have adopted a lot of the techniques found in the Safe Parking/Freeway Incident Management courses;We have sent several people to them. Things like 45 degree blocking with apparatus, issuing ANSI II (ANSI III requires sleeves with striping and/or pants) rated traffic vests for all riding positions, and our new apparatus will have the yellow and red rear safety striping, traffic cones and MUTCD compliant " Emergency Scene Ahead " collapsible signs. Sometimes doing small things makes a big difference. Lt. Steve Lemming, AAS, LP EMS Administration Officer C-Shift Azle, Texas Fire Department This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual (s) to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of The City of Azle or its policies. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please phone Steve Lemming (817)444-7108. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. For more information on The City of Azle, visit our web site at: http://www.cityofazle.org <http://www.cityofazle.org/> Road Safety Got a question for y'all. What are/do you or your agency do to increase the safety of you and your fellow responders while on scenes on active roadways.? What do you try to do, what is required, and what suggestions do you have to make it safer?? Thanks. Dudley __________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com <http://webmail.aol.com> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 One of you guys with better access or faster internet connections should search the latest edition of the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices (Google " MUTCD " ). I couldn't put my eyes on it just now, but I've personally read that emergency responders are NOT exempted from the requirements to appropriately mark a " temporary work area " and direct traffic accordingly. I don't remember the exact requirements, but suffice to say that a fire truck or two with a dozen or so cones placed within 100' of the incident scene doesn't meet the standard. The best option I've seen for a short-term incident is to place a large, heavy, municipally-owned hunk of red metal with lots of flickery stuff as highly mounted as possible WAY back from the incident scene, while the crew of another large heavy hunk of municipally owned red metal deals with the incident. Everybody who gets out of the truck stays in the " traffic shadow " of the truck as best they can, and we try our best to get all the vehicles moved out of the traffic lanes or, preferably, onto the frontage road ASAP. It's surprising to me how many collisions we run on the lower deck of I-35 in Austin that involve no injuries, or very minor injuries. In these cases, my crew (AFD Engine 14- does our level best to get everything out of the road as quickly as possible. The logic is that the road itself isn't dangerous; being a stationary target in the road is dangerous. We frequently even do a little rearranging of sheet metal to make a vehicle driveable enough to get to the shoulder, the frontage, or even better, a parking lot, because if the car is already wrecked, driving it a couple hundred yards further isn't going to hurt that much, and makes everybody substantially safer. Phil Reynolds Jr. 115 Harold Dr. Burnet, TX., 78611 HP CP ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Phil: You are correct. We are considered to be part of a temporary work zone. Other than what you already mentioned, MUTCD outlines the PINK collapsible signs that say " Emergency Scene Ahead " required if the scene lasts longer than 30 minutes. There is a formula for how many traffic cones at how many feet, but it would require a trailer of them if you did it that way. We use a set of collapsible reflective/flashing cones contained in a bag we carry on the engine along with the sign and our ANSI II traffic vests. Following MUTCD is tied into federal highway funding dollars that can be withheld if not in compliance. We don't usually have the availability of a second fire apparatus, we're small. Lt. Steve Lemming, AAS, LP EMS Administration Officer C-Shift Azle, Texas Fire Department This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual (s) to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of The City of Azle or its policies. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please phone Steve Lemming (817)444-7108. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. For more information on The City of Azle, visit our web site at: http://www.cityofazle.org <http://www.cityofazle.org/> Re: Road Safety One of you guys with better access or faster internet connections should search the latest edition of the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices (Google " MUTCD " ). I couldn't put my eyes on it just now, but I've personally read that emergency responders are NOT exempted from the requirements to appropriately mark a " temporary work area " and direct traffic accordingly. I don't remember the exact requirements, but suffice to say that a fire truck or two with a dozen or so cones placed within 100' of the incident scene doesn't meet the standard. The best option I've seen for a short-term incident is to place a large, heavy, municipally-owned hunk of red metal with lots of flickery stuff as highly mounted as possible WAY back from the incident scene, while the crew of another large heavy hunk of municipally owned red metal deals with the incident. Everybody who gets out of the truck stays in the " traffic shadow " of the truck as best they can, and we try our best to get all the vehicles moved out of the traffic lanes or, preferably, onto the frontage road ASAP. It's surprising to me how many collisions we run on the lower deck of I-35 in Austin that involve no injuries, or very minor injuries. In these cases, my crew (AFD Engine 14- does our level best to get everything out of the road as quickly as possible. The logic is that the road itself isn't dangerous; being a stationary target in the road is dangerous. We frequently even do a little rearranging of sheet metal to make a vehicle driveable enough to get to the shoulder, the frontage, or even better, a parking lot, because if the car is already wrecked, driving it a couple hundred yards further isn't going to hurt that much, and makes everybody substantially safer. Phil Reynolds Jr. 115 Harold Dr. Burnet, TX., 78611 HP CP __________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping <http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 The question about the large sign that says EMERGENCY SCENE AHEAD is how do you safely deploy and retrieve it? We have the signs, vest, chevrons, engine company and put a ladder truck on high speed MVC's (if dispatch will send them) to block traffic. However we continue to wrestle with the sign issue. Does it put our personnel in more danger to deploy the sign 100 ft back than it helps? We spent a large amount of time last week at a safety meeting discussing just this issue... Weeks Lic-P **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 It doesn't require the LARGE sign, the MUTCD requirements just say that if the roadway is blocked for more than 30 minutes, you are supposed to deploy it. We use the smaller sign that collapses and we keep it on the running board of the engine strapped with a tool holder. Having personnel deploy cones or signs at the farthest point is in the most dangerous position. We have to be careful any time we are in the flow of traffic. Don't expect people to see you or to stop, so make adjustments accordingly. Lt. Steve Lemming, AAS, LP EMS Administration Officer C-Shift Azle, Texas Fire Department This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual (s) to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of The City of Azle or its policies. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please phone Steve Lemming (817)444-7108. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. For more information on The City of Azle, visit our web site at: http://www.cityofazle.org <http://www.cityofazle.org/> Re: Road Safety The question about the large sign that says EMERGENCY SCENE AHEAD is how do you safely deploy and retrieve it? We have the signs, vest, chevrons, engine company and put a ladder truck on high speed MVC's (if dispatch will send them) to block traffic. However we continue to wrestle with the sign issue. Does it put our personnel in more danger to deploy the sign 100 ft back than it helps? We spent a large amount of time last week at a safety meeting discussing just this issue... Weeks Lic-P **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 <http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 On January 1, 1985, at 0730 I responded to a MVC in intense fog. There was only about 30 feet visibility. We were able to drive only about 20 mph and stop within our field of vision. PD got onscene and said there was one patient only, DOS, but that we needed to continue for traffic control. Once there I saw that a pickup had come to a T intersection with the US Highway and, being unable to stop, went under the flatbed trailer of an 18-wheeler. The cab of the truck was completely removed and the patient suffered an " explosion " of the head. I went ahead to set out flares, but in the process had literally to dive in the ditch to keep being run over by an approaching vehicle what was driving far, far too fast for conditions (exactly what the deceased had been doing). This vehicle was being driven by a Texas Department of Public Safety Trooper. Go figure. GG > > It doesn't require the LARGE sign, the MUTCD requirements just say that > if the roadway is blocked for more than 30 minutes, you are supposed to > deploy it. We use the smaller sign that collapses and we keep it on the > running board of the engine strapped with a tool holder. > > Having personnel deploy cones or signs at the farthest point is in the > most dangerous position. We have to be careful any time we are in the > flow of traffic. Don't expect people to see you or to stop, so make > adjustments accordingly. > > > Lt. Steve Lemming, AAS, LP > EMS Administration Officer > C-Shift > Azle, Texas Fire Department > > This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the > individual (s) to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented > are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of > The City of Azle or its policies. If you have received this e-mail > message in error, please phone Steve Lemming (817)444-7108. Please also > destroy and delete the message from your computer. > > For more information on The City of Azle, visit our web site at: > http://www.cityofazhttp:/ <http://www.cityofazhttp://> > > > Re: Road Safety > > > > The question about the large sign that says EMERGENCY SCENE > AHEAD is how do > you safely deploy and retrieve it? We have the signs, vest, > chevrons, engine > company and put a ladder truck on high speed MVC's (if dispatch > will send > them) to block traffic. However we continue to wrestle with the > sign issue. > Does it put our personnel in more danger to deploy the sign 100 > ft back than > it helps? We spent a large amount of time last week at a safety > meeting > discussing just this issue... > > Weeks > Lic-P > > ************ ************<wbr>**Start the year off right. E > shape. > > http://body.http://body.<wbrhttp://body.<wbrhttp://body.<wbrhttp://bo > <http://body.http://body.<wbrhttp://body.<wbrhttp://body.<wbrhttp://bo> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 The web site _http://www.respondersafety.com/_ (http ://www.respondersafety.com/) has a great deal of resources on this topic. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS) Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\ 5 48) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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