If you suspect BPD, do you tell them?

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

I am new here and not sure what's going on with my father. I am just now

beginning to look at our relationship through the filter of BPD. I have always

known that he was/is abusive (verbally for sure, and possibly physically before

we were born) to my mother. He also started acting out against my sister when

she got old enough to " talk back " . I was never the target of his rages. I was

the " golden child " who could do no wrong. Until this year.

Here's a little background....

My dad was very much abused by his own father his whole life. When he was 13 his

first and only sister was born who was loved and doted on (at least in his

eyes). His mother (my grandmother) was a very loving person, but as she was also

a target of grandpa's abuse (my father was a product of rape and g'ma was forced

to marry her rapist because that was the " right " thing to do back then), she did

not adequately shelter my father. My father also has a brother who is my age who

is the product of an affair. My father is the one who discovered the affair and

found out about his brother by following his dad home from work and seeing him

stop by his mistress' house. Everyone welcomed the child into the family

(including my dad and g'ma) and my g'ma and g'pa stayed together.

Two years ago it also came out that my mother chose to have a 20 year affair

instead of just leaving my dad. She thought it was better to stay " for the

kids " . My dad's response was to throw himself into message boards and self-help

books. He wanted so bad to finally be the victim in their relationship and he

refused to acknowledge how he contributed to mom's apathy towards him.

To say my dad has trust issues is an understatement.

This year everything came to a head. In Feb. my g'pa died. Two months later,

g'ma passed unexpectedly as well. There was no will, so my aunt, who bought a

house with my g'ma and g'pa a few years back and lived with them at the time,

was left to sort everything out.

My dad was not happy with how slow she handled things and was angry that my aunt

was considering my uncle (the love child) as full heir entitled to a 3rd of

everything. But he didn't step in to help, just to harass. I took her " side " . I

didn't see it that way, of course.... I thought I was just helping him see her

POV because he could only see her as a selfish little girl who was spoiled her

whole life. After 3 huge fights in 2-3 months, I was out.

During our last fight I saw the switch in his brain actually go off. His

demeanor changed from argumentative (he has always loved to argue and debate...

the whole B & W thing), to cruel. His face turned bright red, his eyes went cold,

and voice went flat. I don't remember exactly what he said, but I said in a low

menacing voice, " You will not sit at my dining room table and talk to me like

you talk to mom. I won't allow it. " He got up, drove home, and told my mom that

I told him to leave and never come back and he was not welcome in my home (my

husband was in the next room and knows I didn't say that.)

So I am reeling. I have never been on this end of his rages. My sister has and

my mom has, so they are both telling me to just apologize and make things right

so life can go back to " normal " . To my sister, normal is chatting superficially

once a month and having dinner on holidays. To my mom, normal is getting into a

huge argument every 3 days, then ignoring each other for 3 days. To me, normal

was taking road trips, going fishing, talking on the phone for a hour at a time,

and having him spend the night to hang out with my kids (the grandkids). He even

lived with me for 2 months this summer because he wanted to look at houses up

here and be closer to the kids.

I think he is BPD mostly because of what he does with relationships. He first

cut off our church, then his side of the family (not all once... a few people

here and there), and then my mom's side. This happened over the course of 20-30

years so it was hard to see a pattern, especially since we were children when it

began and didn't know what was normal.

It got to the point where only our nuclear family was acceptable and one of my

mom's sisters. I confronted him about that and he said those were the only

people he needed in his life and he was happy about it. I asked him what would

happen when one of did something to cross this line that we can't see that makes

him walk away from us? He acted like he had no idea what I was talking about.

Well then I crossed it. I don't know how to make things right or even if I

should. Should I tell him that I think he is BPD? I am waiting on WOE from the

library so I can see if I am the crazy one here, or if it resonates with me.

To make matters worse, he was diagnosed several years ago with Hepatitis C and

may only have a couple years to live.

Whew... okay.... I suppose first posts are always long and I am sorry to dump on

you, but I am at a loss where to go next. Has anyone ever tried to tell their

dad that they might be BPD? Does it help? Should I follow my instincts that I

should NOT just go crawling back and apologize because that validates his

behavior? Or should I just do whatever it takes so a sick man can die in peace

and my kids can have their g'pa back (I have called the house and even driven

down there, but he is very distant to me in person, and won't pick up the

phone).

I read back a few pages and didn't see these issues addressed (telling parent

they are suspected BPD and/or apologizing just to make BPD happy again), but if

this has been discussed before, I would also love links to those threads. Thanks

for listening!

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

I don't recommend trying to tell him he has BPD. Rather than

helping it usually makes things worse. People who have BPD don't

believe there is anything wrong with them. It is all the rest of

us who have some problem. That's just part of the way BPD

affects people's thought patterns. If he has BPD, telling him so

is only likely to cause more commotion, anger him, and alienate

him from you even more.

Apologizing to him might temporarily improve the situation but

if he has BPD that's not likely to last for long unless you

continue to grovel and be what he wants you to be. It certainly

isn't going to let him die in peace. People with BPD simply

aren't at peace internally. The emotions they feel aren't in

sync with the events that cause them. Little things that normal

people would barely notice feel like attacks to them. They're

constantly threatened by other people's normal behavior.

If your kids are close to him and miss him a lot, you'll have to

weigh the benefits of trying to apologize versus standing up to

him. How old are your kids? People with BPD tend to start

mistreating their grandkids too once the kids get old enough to

have minds of their own. When my brother brought his wife and

kids to visit last spring my nada kept talking to me about how

she thought my 5 year old nephew (her oldest grandchild) didn't

like her. I didn't see any signs of him not liking her. He was

just acting like a kid who was visiting new places and seeing

people he rarely sees. He was all excited and wanted to run

around and do his own thing. If your father starts saying

inappropriate things to your kids, you may have to cut off

contact with him to protect them.

At 10:29 AM 11/12/2011 wrote:

>Hi all,

>

>I am new here and not sure what's going on with my father. I am

>just now beginning to look at our relationship through the

>filter of BPD. I have always known that he was/is abusive

>(verbally for sure, and possibly physically before we were

>born) to my mother. He also started acting out against my

>sister when she got old enough to " talk back " . I was never the

>target of his rages. I was the " golden child " who could do no

>wrong. Until this year.

>

>Here's a little background....

>

>My dad was very much abused by his own father his whole life.

>When he was 13 his first and only sister was born who was loved

>and doted on (at least in his eyes). His mother (my

>grandmother) was a very loving person, but as she was also a

>target of grandpa's abuse (my father was a product of rape and

>g'ma was forced to marry her rapist because that was the

> " right " thing to do back then), she did not adequately shelter

>my father. My father also has a brother who is my age who is

>the product of an affair. My father is the one who discovered

>the affair and found out about his brother by following his dad

>home from work and seeing him stop by his mistress' house.

>Everyone welcomed the child into the family (including my dad

>and g'ma) and my g'ma and g'pa stayed together.

>

>Two years ago it also came out that my mother chose to have a

>20 year affair instead of just leaving my dad. She thought it

>was better to stay " for the kids " . My dad's response was to

>throw himself into message boards and self-help books. He

>wanted so bad to finally be the victim in their relationship

>and he refused to acknowledge how he contributed to mom's

>apathy towards him.

>

>To say my dad has trust issues is an understatement.

>

>This year everything came to a head. In Feb. my g'pa died. Two

>months later, g'ma passed unexpectedly as well. There was no

>will, so my aunt, who bought a house with my g'ma and g'pa a

>few years back and lived with them at the time, was left to

>sort everything out.

>

>My dad was not happy with how slow she handled things and was

>angry that my aunt was considering my uncle (the love child) as

>full heir entitled to a 3rd of everything. But he didn't step

>in to help, just to harass. I took her " side " . I didn't see it

>that way, of course.... I thought I was just helping him see

>her POV because he could only see her as a selfish little girl

>who was spoiled her whole life. After 3 huge fights in 2-3

>months, I was out.

>

>During our last fight I saw the switch in his brain actually go

>off. His demeanor changed from argumentative (he has always

>loved to argue and debate... the whole B & W thing), to cruel.

>His face turned bright red, his eyes went cold, and voice went

>flat. I don't remember exactly what he said, but I said in a

>low menacing voice, " You will not sit at my dining room table

>and talk to me like you talk to mom. I won't allow it. " He got

>up, drove home, and told my mom that I told him to leave and

>never come back and he was not welcome in my home (my husband

>was in the next room and knows I didn't say that.)

>

>So I am reeling. I have never been on this end of his rages. My

>sister has and my mom has, so they are both telling me to just

>apologize and make things right so life can go back to

> " normal " . To my sister, normal is chatting superficially once a

>month and having dinner on holidays. To my mom, normal is

>getting into a huge argument every 3 days, then ignoring each

>other for 3 days. To me, normal was taking road trips, going

>fishing, talking on the phone for a hour at a time, and having

>him spend the night to hang out with my kids (the grandkids).

>He even lived with me for 2 months this summer because he

>wanted to look at houses up here and be closer to the kids.

>

>I think he is BPD mostly because of what he does with

>relationships. He first cut off our church, then his side of

>the family (not all once... a few people here and there), and

>then my mom's side. This happened over the course of 20-30

>years so it was hard to see a pattern, especially since we were

>children when it began and didn't know what was normal.

>

>It got to the point where only our nuclear family was

>acceptable and one of my mom's sisters. I confronted him about

>that and he said those were the only people he needed in his

>life and he was happy about it. I asked him what would happen

>when one of did something to cross this line that we can't see

>that makes him walk away from us? He acted like he had no idea

>what I was talking about.

>

>Well then I crossed it. I don't know how to make things right

>or even if I should. Should I tell him that I think he is BPD?

>I am waiting on WOE from the library so I can see if I am the

>crazy one here, or if it resonates with me.

>

>To make matters worse, he was diagnosed several years ago with

>Hepatitis C and may only have a couple years to live.

>

>Whew... okay.... I suppose first posts are always long and I am

>sorry to dump on you, but I am at a loss where to go next. Has

>anyone ever tried to tell their dad that they might be BPD?

>Does it help? Should I follow my instincts that I should NOT

>just go crawling back and apologize because that validates his

>behavior? Or should I just do whatever it takes so a sick man

>can die in peace and my kids can have their g'pa back (I have

>called the house and even driven down there, but he is very

>distant to me in person, and won't pick up the phone).

>

>I read back a few pages and didn't see these issues addressed

>(telling parent they are suspected BPD and/or apologizing just

>to make BPD happy again), but if this has been discussed

>before, I would also love links to those threads. Thanks for

>listening!

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for replying, Katrina!

My sister doesn't want me to tell him what I think either. I just don't think I

can NOT tell him if we ever do get in a serious conversation again. IF I decide

to do whatever it takes to make the relationship right, it is going to be

because I am trying to give him a break for what he did. No stable/healthy

person pushes their kid(s) out of their life over a disagreement. So if I allow

him back in my life I foresee me saying, " Dad, I have come to believe that you

have BPD. Because of this, I want to disregard the things that were said and

done these past few months and move past it if you are willing. " Otherwise, I am

forced to wait for an apology that will never come.

My kids are 6 and younger and so far my dad has treated them well. It seems he

starts playing his mind games around puberty (once a child starts to display a

minf of their own). He seems to be able to handle normal childhood " betrayals "

(like when they tell you they love someone else more than you or don't want to

see the cool new toy you bought them because they are engrossed in a bug). He

might go hide in his room, but he doesn't say or do anything and he bounces

back. It is when children become willful and defiant that he starts to push them

away permanently.

But now that I am aware of things I do want to monitor extra closely. And of

course there is the problem of whether or not to allow overnights. My parents

treat them well, but I know they also fight in front of them (thinking just

because they are in the next room they aren't listening).

Anyway, thanks again. It helped just to share my story. I am still waiting on my

books to help me understand more and would love anymore advice anyone has.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I agree with Katrina's suggestions. Telling someone that you think they have

borderline pd (telling someone that you believe they are mentally ill) can

actually be counter-productive; it can make things worse RE your relationship

because the bpd person will view that as a personal attack. It may possibly

cause him withdraw from you entirely and permanently, or perhaps result in him

wanting to " get back " at you.

Instead, I suggest that you simply set boundaries regarding specific behaviors

your father engages in that you find hurtful or intolerable.

Its hard to wrap our heads around the reality that we can't make someone else

change their core personality and behaviors; we simply don't have that power.

All we have the power to do is decide how we are going to respond when someone

behaves abusively toward us.

Its also confusing and devastating when you have been the all-good, golden child

and are now tasting the negative behaviors that before were only directed at

other family members; its hard to discover that you are now the " scapegoat " .

Bpd manipulative behaviors like rejection and FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) can

have a powerful impact if they have never been directed at you before.

To top it off, passive-aggressive behaviors are nearly impossible to deal with;

those are the " plausibly deniable " yet very hostile behaviors like " forgetting "

to pick you up somewhere when you need a ride, or " forgetting " that you are

allergic to a particular food and serving the allergen to you, giving you the

" cold shoulder " or pouting and sulking while claiming that " Nothing's wrong. "

Or my favorite p-a example that one member posted about here: her nada left a

small ball of her own feces hidden in her daughter's guest bathroom, to stink up

the place long after nada's visit was over! Wow!

So, my advice is along the lines of picking specific behaviors that you can't

tolerate, such as (just for example purposes) your dad cursing at you. The

moment he does this, you can say or even talk over him and say calmly but

firmly: " Dad, its not OK for you to curse at me. I won't stay here and listen

to you (or stay on the phone) when you do that. I'm leaving now / hanging up

now. We can talk about xyz again later when you're feeling calmer. " You have

to be quick and you have to be consistent, though. And very firm, as though you

are the parent, in a way. And you have to give consequences when unacceptable

behaviors are repeated. As in, " Dad, I have said several times before that I

won't listen to you when you curse at me, so I won't be talking to you for a

couple of weeks. I'm hanging up now, 'bye. "

I'm glad you have ordered some of the good books out there about setting

boundaries and managing having a relationship with a pd parent. Best of luck

to you and please continue to post here to share progress, or when you need

validation or to give support, or to just vent.

-Annie

>

> Hi all,

>

> I am new here and not sure what's going on with my father. I am just now

beginning to look at our relationship through the filter of BPD. I have always

known that he was/is abusive (verbally for sure, and possibly physically before

we were born) to my mother. He also started acting out against my sister when

she got old enough to " talk back " . I was never the target of his rages. I was

the " golden child " who could do no wrong. Until this year.

>

> Here's a little background....

>

> My dad was very much abused by his own father his whole life. When he was 13

his first and only sister was born who was loved and doted on (at least in his

eyes). His mother (my grandmother) was a very loving person, but as she was also

a target of grandpa's abuse (my father was a product of rape and g'ma was forced

to marry her rapist because that was the " right " thing to do back then), she did

not adequately shelter my father. My father also has a brother who is my age who

is the product of an affair. My father is the one who discovered the affair and

found out about his brother by following his dad home from work and seeing him

stop by his mistress' house. Everyone welcomed the child into the family

(including my dad and g'ma) and my g'ma and g'pa stayed together.

>

> Two years ago it also came out that my mother chose to have a 20 year affair

instead of just leaving my dad. She thought it was better to stay " for the

kids " . My dad's response was to throw himself into message boards and self-help

books. He wanted so bad to finally be the victim in their relationship and he

refused to acknowledge how he contributed to mom's apathy towards him.

>

> To say my dad has trust issues is an understatement.

>

> This year everything came to a head. In Feb. my g'pa died. Two months later,

g'ma passed unexpectedly as well. There was no will, so my aunt, who bought a

house with my g'ma and g'pa a few years back and lived with them at the time,

was left to sort everything out.

>

> My dad was not happy with how slow she handled things and was angry that my

aunt was considering my uncle (the love child) as full heir entitled to a 3rd of

everything. But he didn't step in to help, just to harass. I took her " side " . I

didn't see it that way, of course.... I thought I was just helping him see her

POV because he could only see her as a selfish little girl who was spoiled her

whole life. After 3 huge fights in 2-3 months, I was out.

>

> During our last fight I saw the switch in his brain actually go off. His

demeanor changed from argumentative (he has always loved to argue and debate...

the whole B & W thing), to cruel. His face turned bright red, his eyes went cold,

and voice went flat. I don't remember exactly what he said, but I said in a low

menacing voice, " You will not sit at my dining room table and talk to me like

you talk to mom. I won't allow it. " He got up, drove home, and told my mom that

I told him to leave and never come back and he was not welcome in my home (my

husband was in the next room and knows I didn't say that.)

>

> So I am reeling. I have never been on this end of his rages. My sister has and

my mom has, so they are both telling me to just apologize and make things right

so life can go back to " normal " . To my sister, normal is chatting superficially

once a month and having dinner on holidays. To my mom, normal is getting into a

huge argument every 3 days, then ignoring each other for 3 days. To me, normal

was taking road trips, going fishing, talking on the phone for a hour at a time,

and having him spend the night to hang out with my kids (the grandkids). He even

lived with me for 2 months this summer because he wanted to look at houses up

here and be closer to the kids.

>

> I think he is BPD mostly because of what he does with relationships. He first

cut off our church, then his side of the family (not all once... a few people

here and there), and then my mom's side. This happened over the course of 20-30

years so it was hard to see a pattern, especially since we were children when it

began and didn't know what was normal.

>

> It got to the point where only our nuclear family was acceptable and one of my

mom's sisters. I confronted him about that and he said those were the only

people he needed in his life and he was happy about it. I asked him what would

happen when one of did something to cross this line that we can't see that makes

him walk away from us? He acted like he had no idea what I was talking about.

>

> Well then I crossed it. I don't know how to make things right or even if I

should. Should I tell him that I think he is BPD? I am waiting on WOE from the

library so I can see if I am the crazy one here, or if it resonates with me.

>

> To make matters worse, he was diagnosed several years ago with Hepatitis C and

may only have a couple years to live.

>

> Whew... okay.... I suppose first posts are always long and I am sorry to dump

on you, but I am at a loss where to go next. Has anyone ever tried to tell their

dad that they might be BPD? Does it help? Should I follow my instincts that I

should NOT just go crawling back and apologize because that validates his

behavior? Or should I just do whatever it takes so a sick man can die in peace

and my kids can have their g'pa back (I have called the house and even driven

down there, but he is very distant to me in person, and won't pick up the

phone).

>

> I read back a few pages and didn't see these issues addressed (telling parent

they are suspected BPD and/or apologizing just to make BPD happy again), but if

this has been discussed before, I would also love links to those threads. Thanks

for listening!

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , and Welcome!

You have come to a really wonderful and supportive place, and a lot of

good company!

I'm so sorry this is happening for your family, it seems that death

issues can trigger BPDs most vicious, entitled, and manipulative

tendencies. At a time when everyone is so vulnerable, this is so awful to

have to deal with, too. I know it has been in my own family.

In regard to telling Your Fada he is BPD, I agree with Annie, et al.,

I guess I would seriously consider what purpose would be served by

telling this person, that, *you* believe *they* are BPD. You (none of us)

have credability in the eyes of *anyone* who is character disordered..

They are *not *experiencing an information problem.

They do not care what you,( or anyone else,) think, feel, dream of, or

pray for, *unless* it suits thier purpose of the moment, or can be used as

a manipulative currancy.

You (we) are not a real person to them.

Someone once told me that;

*

BPDs derive their facts from their feelings, and fears, rather than

their feelings, and fears, from their facts. *(sorry about all the " Fs " )

It really helped put their convoluted thinking into perspective for me.

Also, that;

Bpds perceive other people as either a source of emotional supply and

reinforcement, OR a dangerous obstacle to be controlled or destroyed.

If we are lucky, they simply discard us like an old tea bag when we no

longer are a source of supply. Usually, they tend to cannibalize us until

we go low, or no contact, and even then, the character assassination,

stalking, public scenes, etc., etc., etc., may go on, ad infinitum.

They are,* permanently,* struggling the throes of an emotional /

characterological / chemical / hormonal deficit, that cannot be repaired or

addressed through the normal avenues of love, patience, tolerance,

information, or, sadly, medication. They didn't " ask " to be this way, (any

more than any of us could have " asked " for any form of psycho-biochemical

disfunction.)

if they could find such repair, or restoration, then everyone posting on

this board would have figured it out, shared the magic words and gone on

to live our happy lives in Kansas, free of flying monkeys, shoe stealing

witches, and hucksters in hot-air balloons.

Borderlines *will not *take such disclosure as an opportunity to make

amends, alter their behavior, or apologize.

*They wil*l, however, take this as a personal attack, challenge, and

opportunity, to visit vengence, violence, ( verbal, emotional, physical,

financial. . . . ) upon anyone making such a suggestion. Forever.

You and your immediate family, become fair game, the season on

*you*will always be open, and no ammount of apologizing, good

intentions,

back-pedaling, tears, avoidance, legal intervention, support from your

family, freinds, religous leaders, four leaf clovers, rabbits feet,

horseshoes, found pennies, or lucky stars, will help.

You will have drawn a big, red target on your forhead, and back, and

their aim is really, really good. As a freind of mine used to say, " They

got no scruples, they got no religion, they got dedication and eternity . .

.. "

It must have been really scary, when your Fada flipped like that at

dinner. Thier rage is so inexplicably abrupt and intense, seemingly over

nothing. My Nada used to violently freak out over what she *thought* I *might

b*e thinking . . . . !!!

.

The intensity, and ammount of energy BPD are capable of dedicating to

" getting even, " over percieved slights, is simply unfathomable for most of

us. At least it has been for me. Life truly is all black and white for

them. From passively pouting or sulking, to blatant physical abuse, from

gaslighting, and character assassination to putting stuff in your food, (or

hiding little balls of fecese in your bathroom*) may* all be fair game,

because they * feel* attacked.

They are deeply, characterologically perverse.

My Nada, whom I deeply, deeply love, long for, fear and avoid like the

plague, would use her professional diagnosis of BPD, like a get out of jail

- free - card. If caught being cruel,manipulative, etc., would spit

out, with a bonechilling violence of countainance, and cold rage in her

face " Well, what do you expect?, I'm a *Borderline*! "

I finally began thinking if my Nada, as one who had been bitten by a

werewolf, or a vampire. She didn't get bitten on purpose. I am so terribly,

terribly sorry that this has happened to her, I wish I could fix it for

her, for me. I know, that under these horrendous circumstances, that she

has done the best she* could* do. *And* I refuse to get bitten. I won't pet

her through the bars during the full moon. I won't be her " Happy Meal, " or

midnight snack. I doubt we will ever see or speak to each other again. It

hurts. I love my Nada, but she'll just try to eat my brain if I let her get

close. Hollidays hurt, birthdays hurt, . . . . but I'll survive. So will

my loved ones.

The only ball in your court, is the one that best protects you and you

immediate family.

There are some truly stellar works on BPD,* Stop Walking On Eggshells -*

Kreger

*

Understanding the Borderline Mother* - (also applicable to fathers)

* Evil

Genes* - Oakley

These are three that helped put this whole grevious mess into perspective

for me, and I know there are other really good ones out there too.

I wish you the very, very best with your Fada, you have come to a really

great place for information and support.!

All the best, Sunspot

On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 2:10 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

> **

>

>

> Hi ,

>

> I agree with Katrina's suggestions. Telling someone that you think they

> have borderline pd (telling someone that you believe they are mentally ill)

> can actually be counter-productive; it can make things worse RE your

> relationship because the bpd person will view that as a personal attack. It

> may possibly cause him withdraw from you entirely and permanently, or

> perhaps result in him wanting to " get back " at you.

>

> Instead, I suggest that you simply set boundaries regarding specific

> behaviors your father engages in that you find hurtful or intolerable.

>

> Its hard to wrap our heads around the reality that we can't make someone

> else change their core personality and behaviors; we simply don't have that

> power. All we have the power to do is decide how we are going to respond

> when someone behaves abusively toward us.

>

> Its also confusing and devastating when you have been the all-good, golden

> child and are now tasting the negative behaviors that before were only

> directed at other family members; its hard to discover that you are now the

> " scapegoat " . Bpd manipulative behaviors like rejection and FOG (fear,

> obligation, guilt) can have a powerful impact if they have never been

> directed at you before.

>

> To top it off, passive-aggressive behaviors are nearly impossible to deal

> with; those are the " plausibly deniable " yet very hostile behaviors like

> " forgetting " to pick you up somewhere when you need a ride, or " forgetting "

> that you are allergic to a particular food and serving the allergen to you,

> giving you the " cold shoulder " or pouting and sulking while claiming that

> " Nothing's wrong. " Or my favorite p-a example that one member posted about

> here: her nada left a small ball of her own feces hidden in her daughter's

> guest bathroom, to stink up the place long after nada's visit was over! Wow!

>

> So, my advice is along the lines of picking specific behaviors that you

> can't tolerate, such as (just for example purposes) your dad cursing at

> you. The moment he does this, you can say or even talk over him and say

> calmly but firmly: " Dad, its not OK for you to curse at me. I won't stay

> here and listen to you (or stay on the phone) when you do that. I'm leaving

> now / hanging up now. We can talk about xyz again later when you're feeling

> calmer. " You have to be quick and you have to be consistent, though. And

> very firm, as though you are the parent, in a way. And you have to give

> consequences when unacceptable behaviors are repeated. As in, " Dad, I have

> said several times before that I won't listen to you when you curse at me,

> so I won't be talking to you for a couple of weeks. I'm hanging up now,

> 'bye. "

>

> I'm glad you have ordered some of the good books out there about setting

> boundaries and managing having a relationship with a pd parent. Best of

> luck to you and please continue to post here to share progress, or when you

> need validation or to give support, or to just vent.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I am new here and not sure what's going on with my father. I am just now

> beginning to look at our relationship through the filter of BPD. I have

> always known that he was/is abusive (verbally for sure, and possibly

> physically before we were born) to my mother. He also started acting out

> against my sister when she got old enough to " talk back " . I was never the

> target of his rages. I was the " golden child " who could do no wrong. Until

> this year.

> >

> > Here's a little background....

> >

> > My dad was very much abused by his own father his whole life. When he

> was 13 his first and only sister was born who was loved and doted on (at

> least in his eyes). His mother (my grandmother) was a very loving person,

> but as she was also a target of grandpa's abuse (my father was a product of

> rape and g'ma was forced to marry her rapist because that was the " right "

> thing to do back then), she did not adequately shelter my father. My father

> also has a brother who is my age who is the product of an affair. My father

> is the one who discovered the affair and found out about his brother by

> following his dad home from work and seeing him stop by his mistress'

> house. Everyone welcomed the child into the family (including my dad and

> g'ma) and my g'ma and g'pa stayed together.

> >

> > Two years ago it also came out that my mother chose to have a 20 year

> affair instead of just leaving my dad. She thought it was better to stay

> " for the kids " . My dad's response was to throw himself into message boards

> and self-help books. He wanted so bad to finally be the victim in their

> relationship and he refused to acknowledge how he contributed to mom's

> apathy towards him.

> >

> > To say my dad has trust issues is an understatement.

> >

> > This year everything came to a head. In Feb. my g'pa died. Two months

> later, g'ma passed unexpectedly as well. There was no will, so my aunt, who

> bought a house with my g'ma and g'pa a few years back and lived with them

> at the time, was left to sort everything out.

> >

> > My dad was not happy with how slow she handled things and was angry that

> my aunt was considering my uncle (the love child) as full heir entitled to

> a 3rd of everything. But he didn't step in to help, just to harass. I took

> her " side " . I didn't see it that way, of course.... I thought I was just

> helping him see her POV because he could only see her as a selfish little

> girl who was spoiled her whole life. After 3 huge fights in 2-3 months, I

> was out.

> >

> > During our last fight I saw the switch in his brain actually go off. His

> demeanor changed from argumentative (he has always loved to argue and

> debate... the whole B & W thing), to cruel. His face turned bright red, his

> eyes went cold, and voice went flat. I don't remember exactly what he said,

> but I said in a low menacing voice, " You will not sit at my dining room

> table and talk to me like you talk to mom. I won't allow it. " He got up,

> drove home, and told my mom that I told him to leave and never come back

> and he was not welcome in my home (my husband was in the next room and

> knows I didn't say that.)

> >

> > So I am reeling. I have never been on this end of his rages. My sister

> has and my mom has, so they are both telling me to just apologize and make

> things right so life can go back to " normal " . To my sister, normal is

> chatting superficially once a month and having dinner on holidays. To my

> mom, normal is getting into a huge argument every 3 days, then ignoring

> each other for 3 days. To me, normal was taking road trips, going fishing,

> talking on the phone for a hour at a time, and having him spend the night

> to hang out with my kids (the grandkids). He even lived with me for 2

> months this summer because he wanted to look at houses up here and be

> closer to the kids.

> >

> > I think he is BPD mostly because of what he does with relationships. He

> first cut off our church, then his side of the family (not all once... a

> few people here and there), and then my mom's side. This happened over the

> course of 20-30 years so it was hard to see a pattern, especially since we

> were children when it began and didn't know what was normal.

> >

> > It got to the point where only our nuclear family was acceptable and one

> of my mom's sisters. I confronted him about that and he said those were the

> only people he needed in his life and he was happy about it. I asked him

> what would happen when one of did something to cross this line that we

> can't see that makes him walk away from us? He acted like he had no idea

> what I was talking about.

> >

> > Well then I crossed it. I don't know how to make things right or even if

> I should. Should I tell him that I think he is BPD? I am waiting on WOE

> from the library so I can see if I am the crazy one here, or if it

> resonates with me.

> >

> > To make matters worse, he was diagnosed several years ago with Hepatitis

> C and may only have a couple years to live.

> >

> > Whew... okay.... I suppose first posts are always long and I am sorry to

> dump on you, but I am at a loss where to go next. Has anyone ever tried to

> tell their dad that they might be BPD? Does it help? Should I follow my

> instincts that I should NOT just go crawling back and apologize because

> that validates his behavior? Or should I just do whatever it takes so a

> sick man can die in peace and my kids can have their g'pa back (I have

> called the house and even driven down there, but he is very distant to me

> in person, and won't pick up the phone).

> >

> > I read back a few pages and didn't see these issues addressed (telling

> parent they are suspected BPD and/or apologizing just to make BPD happy

> again), but if this has been discussed before, I would also love links to

> those threads. Thanks for listening!

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I am late replying to you but read your OP and have read everyone's

responses.

I don't really have anything to add to the great things that have been said

except how much I can sympathize with what you are going through right now.

When I first read your post I thought how strong of you to set such a firm

boundary with your dad by not allowing him to mistreat you in your own home. Few

of us have that ability right off the bat. You are a very strong person.

Second, I went through something similar with my nada last fall. It was a wake

up call to me and I finally had the strength to stop making excuses for her and

say " I think my mom has a mental illness but I'm not sure what it is " . That led

me to discover BPD and this group.

Deciding to stop the cycle of constantly allowing their abusive behavior to

continue in your life and put up boundaries to protect yourself and your family

is difficult to say the least. Gird yourself with strength and prayer, it will

be a long journey, but one that is well worth it.

Feel free to message me any time. I am barely a year into discovering my nada's

BPD and while I've been able to get into some good counseling and get stronger

than ever before, I am still having my share of challenges as I look at her

through the new lens of BPD.

Welcome to the group. I am sorry you have to be here, but I wish lots of

strength to you and your family.

((HUGS))

> > >

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > I am new here and not sure what's going on with my father. I am just now

> > beginning to look at our relationship through the filter of BPD. I have

> > always known that he was/is abusive (verbally for sure, and possibly

> > physically before we were born) to my mother. He also started acting out

> > against my sister when she got old enough to " talk back " . I was never the

> > target of his rages. I was the " golden child " who could do no wrong. Until

> > this year.

> > >

> > > Here's a little background....

> > >

> > > My dad was very much abused by his own father his whole life. When he

> > was 13 his first and only sister was born who was loved and doted on (at

> > least in his eyes). His mother (my grandmother) was a very loving person,

> > but as she was also a target of grandpa's abuse (my father was a product of

> > rape and g'ma was forced to marry her rapist because that was the " right "

> > thing to do back then), she did not adequately shelter my father. My father

> > also has a brother who is my age who is the product of an affair. My father

> > is the one who discovered the affair and found out about his brother by

> > following his dad home from work and seeing him stop by his mistress'

> > house. Everyone welcomed the child into the family (including my dad and

> > g'ma) and my g'ma and g'pa stayed together.

> > >

> > > Two years ago it also came out that my mother chose to have a 20 year

> > affair instead of just leaving my dad. She thought it was better to stay

> > " for the kids " . My dad's response was to throw himself into message boards

> > and self-help books. He wanted so bad to finally be the victim in their

> > relationship and he refused to acknowledge how he contributed to mom's

> > apathy towards him.

> > >

> > > To say my dad has trust issues is an understatement.

> > >

> > > This year everything came to a head. In Feb. my g'pa died. Two months

> > later, g'ma passed unexpectedly as well. There was no will, so my aunt, who

> > bought a house with my g'ma and g'pa a few years back and lived with them

> > at the time, was left to sort everything out.

> > >

> > > My dad was not happy with how slow she handled things and was angry that

> > my aunt was considering my uncle (the love child) as full heir entitled to

> > a 3rd of everything. But he didn't step in to help, just to harass. I took

> > her " side " . I didn't see it that way, of course.... I thought I was just

> > helping him see her POV because he could only see her as a selfish little

> > girl who was spoiled her whole life. After 3 huge fights in 2-3 months, I

> > was out.

> > >

> > > During our last fight I saw the switch in his brain actually go off. His

> > demeanor changed from argumentative (he has always loved to argue and

> > debate... the whole B & W thing), to cruel. His face turned bright red, his

> > eyes went cold, and voice went flat. I don't remember exactly what he said,

> > but I said in a low menacing voice, " You will not sit at my dining room

> > table and talk to me like you talk to mom. I won't allow it. " He got up,

> > drove home, and told my mom that I told him to leave and never come back

> > and he was not welcome in my home (my husband was in the next room and

> > knows I didn't say that.)

> > >

> > > So I am reeling. I have never been on this end of his rages. My sister

> > has and my mom has, so they are both telling me to just apologize and make

> > things right so life can go back to " normal " . To my sister, normal is

> > chatting superficially once a month and having dinner on holidays. To my

> > mom, normal is getting into a huge argument every 3 days, then ignoring

> > each other for 3 days. To me, normal was taking road trips, going fishing,

> > talking on the phone for a hour at a time, and having him spend the night

> > to hang out with my kids (the grandkids). He even lived with me for 2

> > months this summer because he wanted to look at houses up here and be

> > closer to the kids.

> > >

> > > I think he is BPD mostly because of what he does with relationships. He

> > first cut off our church, then his side of the family (not all once... a

> > few people here and there), and then my mom's side. This happened over the

> > course of 20-30 years so it was hard to see a pattern, especially since we

> > were children when it began and didn't know what was normal.

> > >

> > > It got to the point where only our nuclear family was acceptable and one

> > of my mom's sisters. I confronted him about that and he said those were the

> > only people he needed in his life and he was happy about it. I asked him

> > what would happen when one of did something to cross this line that we

> > can't see that makes him walk away from us? He acted like he had no idea

> > what I was talking about.

> > >

> > > Well then I crossed it. I don't know how to make things right or even if

> > I should. Should I tell him that I think he is BPD? I am waiting on WOE

> > from the library so I can see if I am the crazy one here, or if it

> > resonates with me.

> > >

> > > To make matters worse, he was diagnosed several years ago with Hepatitis

> > C and may only have a couple years to live.

> > >

> > > Whew... okay.... I suppose first posts are always long and I am sorry to

> > dump on you, but I am at a loss where to go next. Has anyone ever tried to

> > tell their dad that they might be BPD? Does it help? Should I follow my

> > instincts that I should NOT just go crawling back and apologize because

> > that validates his behavior? Or should I just do whatever it takes so a

> > sick man can die in peace and my kids can have their g'pa back (I have

> > called the house and even driven down there, but he is very distant to me

> > in person, and won't pick up the phone).

> > >

> > > I read back a few pages and didn't see these issues addressed (telling

> > parent they are suspected BPD and/or apologizing just to make BPD happy

> > again), but if this has been discussed before, I would also love links to

> > those threads. Thanks for listening!

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow. I havent read anyone elses responces to your thread yet, so I may

be duplicating what others have said. But let me start with : Welcome

to OZ!

Yes , you surely seem to have a BPD dad.

Well, to address your questions then. Your other FOO members urged you

to apologize so things can go back to normal. Uh....no. What they have

been doing all thier lives, and are urging YOU to do, is walk on

eggshells with your Fada. I would suggest , if you have not done so

that you start your education about BPD by reading SWOE. ( Stop walking

on Eggshells.)

Consider that thier " normal " is not the normal for the rest of the

world. Only in Oz would it seem rational to say, Wow, Dad raged at you

during a converstation in which you disagreed with him. Hurry up and

apologize for making him be an asshole, so he ll stop pouting and

punshing everyone else. You know who else operates in this kind of

twisted logic? Women who are phsycally abused by a lover or husband.

If you now are starting to realize that dear old Dad is a FADA, a BPD,

then take the next step. Stop walking on eggshells around him. BP s

live in a black and white world. You have been the golden child, and

thus a hero. But now, you have disagreed with him. So, there can be no

middle ground. You are either a hero or a villian. Welcome to the

dark side. If you do go and apologize so things can go back to "

normal " , you will play into his PD manipulations and you may play this

cycle for a long time.

I would also not worry about correcting his lies ( gaslighting) about

how the conversation transpired. Those who have dealt with him will

know. And you need not get into trying to build a buffer around his

pathology. Instead, you need to build buffers, boundaries, around YOU.

The goal needs to be for you to be healthy, despite him. It is not your

responsibility to make him get better.

Which brings me to the question of telling him you think he is BPD.

Again, no. This can go one of 2 ways , neither of them good for you.

One, he gets angry, denies any such problem, makes you out to be the

villian, and rages at you and tells horrible stories about what a King

Lear daughter you are. The other is that he embraces it, and from now

on, anything he does that is out of line, he will excuse by saying, Oh

its not my fault, I have BPD. Either way, HE is the victim, and

everyone else is the villian.

As to relationships, yes, a pattern of unstable relationships is a

symptom of BDP. When you read SWOE, I can pretty much assure you that

you will see your Dad on the pages, over and over again.

While you are waiting to get SWOE , go to bpdcentral.com You will find

lots of good information to start your education on BPD.

To answer your question about Hep C, who told you he may only have a few

years to live? Another thing to understand about BP s, is never , ever

believe what they tell you a therapist or Dr said unless you hear it for

yourself. Remember they ALWAYS must be the victim or the hero. So

every affliction is earth shattering, and thier courage in facing it is

epic and heroic.

While Hep C is a serious condition, as far as mortality rates , Here is

a copy from WebMD

Of 100 people infected with HCV, it is estimated that

75 to 85 will become chronically infected,

60 to 70 will develop liver disease

<http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=110443> ,

5 to 20 will develop cirrhosis and

1 to 5 will die from complications of liver disease such as cirrhosis or

liver cancer.

A bit different perspective, isnt it?

Now, here is a hard reality. Your dad will die. Tomorrow, next week, or

10 years from now, sometime he will die. We KO s all face this, and

unlike other children, have to balance that against the reality that

choosing hard things like no contact because our BP parent will not

respect our boundaries, or walking away from abusive behaviors for the

same reason , may mean that we will not be there, and that our BP parent

will be mad at us when they die.

They alternative is to let them manipulate us till they do die based on

the certainty that they eventually will.

My own Nada was in a psychotic break when she died. She died of

complications from a condition for which she did not adhere to Dr s

orders, which could have saved her life. And she was mad at me and

would not answer her phone the day before her death because I would not

back down and agree with her that yes, her heater was indeed talking to

her, and no, she did not need to let her cardiologist monitor her

anuerysm. The last time we spoke was with her angry at me for not

playing her games. That is our reality. It makes me sad. But it was

the right thing to do.

Good luck!

Doug

>

> Hi all,

>

> I am new here and not sure what's going on with my father. I am just

now beginning to look at our relationship through the filter of BPD. I

have always known that he was/is abusive (verbally for sure, and

possibly physically before we were born) to my mother. He also started

acting out against my sister when she got old enough to " talk back " . I

was never the target of his rages. I was the " golden child " who could do

no wrong. Until this year.

>

> Here's a little background....

>

> My dad was very much abused by his own father his whole life. When he

was 13 his first and only sister was born who was loved and doted on (at

least in his eyes). His mother (my grandmother) was a very loving

person, but as she was also a target of grandpa's abuse (my father was a

product of rape and g'ma was forced to marry her rapist because that was

the " right " thing to do back then), she did not adequately shelter my

father. My father also has a brother who is my age who is the product of

an affair. My father is the one who discovered the affair and found out

about his brother by following his dad home from work and seeing him

stop by his mistress' house. Everyone welcomed the child into the family

(including my dad and g'ma) and my g'ma and g'pa stayed together.

>

> Two years ago it also came out that my mother chose to have a 20 year

affair instead of just leaving my dad. She thought it was better to stay

" for the kids " . My dad's response was to throw himself into message

boards and self-help books. He wanted so bad to finally be the victim in

their relationship and he refused to acknowledge how he contributed to

mom's apathy towards him.

>

> To say my dad has trust issues is an understatement.

>

> This year everything came to a head. In Feb. my g'pa died. Two months

later, g'ma passed unexpectedly as well. There was no will, so my aunt,

who bought a house with my g'ma and g'pa a few years back and lived with

them at the time, was left to sort everything out.

>

> My dad was not happy with how slow she handled things and was angry

that my aunt was considering my uncle (the love child) as full heir

entitled to a 3rd of everything. But he didn't step in to help, just to

harass. I took her " side " . I didn't see it that way, of course.... I

thought I was just helping him see her POV because he could only see her

as a selfish little girl who was spoiled her whole life. After 3 huge

fights in 2-3 months, I was out.

>

> During our last fight I saw the switch in his brain actually go off.

His demeanor changed from argumentative (he has always loved to argue

and debate... the whole B & W thing), to cruel. His face turned bright

red, his eyes went cold, and voice went flat. I don't remember exactly

what he said, but I said in a low menacing voice, " You will not sit at

my dining room table and talk to me like you talk to mom. I won't allow

it. " He got up, drove home, and told my mom that I told him to leave and

never come back and he was not welcome in my home (my husband was in the

next room and knows I didn't say that.)

>

> So I am reeling. I have never been on this end of his rages. My sister

has and my mom has, so they are both telling me to just apologize and

make things right so life can go back to " normal " . To my sister, normal

is chatting superficially once a month and having dinner on holidays. To

my mom, normal is getting into a huge argument every 3 days, then

ignoring each other for 3 days. To me, normal was taking road trips,

going fishing, talking on the phone for a hour at a time, and having him

spend the night to hang out with my kids (the grandkids). He even lived

with me for 2 months this summer because he wanted to look at houses up

here and be closer to the kids.

>

> I think he is BPD mostly because of what he does with relationships.

He first cut off our church, then his side of the family (not all

once... a few people here and there), and then my mom's side. This

happened over the course of 20-30 years so it was hard to see a pattern,

especially since we were children when it began and didn't know what was

normal.

>

> It got to the point where only our nuclear family was acceptable and

one of my mom's sisters. I confronted him about that and he said those

were the only people he needed in his life and he was happy about it. I

asked him what would happen when one of did something to cross this line

that we can't see that makes him walk away from us? He acted like he had

no idea what I was talking about.

>

> Well then I crossed it. I don't know how to make things right or even

if I should. Should I tell him that I think he is BPD? I am waiting on

WOE from the library so I can see if I am the crazy one here, or if it

resonates with me.

>

> To make matters worse, he was diagnosed several years ago with

Hepatitis C and may only have a couple years to live.

>

> Whew... okay.... I suppose first posts are always long and I am sorry

to dump on you, but I am at a loss where to go next. Has anyone ever

tried to tell their dad that they might be BPD? Does it help? Should I

follow my instincts that I should NOT just go crawling back and

apologize because that validates his behavior? Or should I just do

whatever it takes so a sick man can die in peace and my kids can have

their g'pa back (I have called the house and even driven down there, but

he is very distant to me in person, and won't pick up the phone).

>

> I read back a few pages and didn't see these issues addressed (telling

parent they are suspected BPD and/or apologizing just to make BPD happy

again), but if this has been discussed before, I would also love links

to those threads. Thanks for listening!

>

[Guest guest]

Again, I know how much you, and all of us, operate on the desire to "

make our relationship right. "

Sadly, so very sadly, that is not possible with a BP. They cannot have

normal , healthy relationships. You have to work on being healthy in

your life and with your family. He can only be a part of that where he

is willing to behave in a normal rational manner. Often that means

that, yes, tragically, he will choose to be the way he is rather than

choose you or your children.

You need not say, Dad I think you have BPD, to be fair and reasonable in

saying Dad, I think you owe me an apology for the things you have said.

But whether you choose to apologize or not, I will no longer tolerate

such behavior from you. If you act that way again, on the phone, I

will hang up, in person I will walk away , or if you are at my home I

will ask you to leave. If you do not want to discuss certain issues

because they are too emotional, that is fine. But I will insist on being

treated with respect.

And I should warn you, as I do so often with KO s of BPs, about your

children. He will turn on them cruelly, as he did with you, the first

time one shows the least amount of independant thought. He will play

mind games with them as surely as he breathes, for that is what he is.

And my caveat, as a child raised by a BP mom, to all KO s. Never, ever,

under any circumstances, for any length of time whatsoever, leave a

child of any age with a BP alone. I d rather buy them a pit bull and a

fighting chicken and let them keep them in their bedroom.

I know you want to have a normal relationship with Dad, and the kids to

have a normal Grandpa. I m sorry, really. We all want that. But it is

not in the cards with a BP.

Doug

>

> Thanks so much for replying, Katrina!

>

> My sister doesn't want me to tell him what I think either. I just

don't think I can NOT tell him if we ever do get in a serious

conversation again. IF I decide to do whatever it takes to make the

relationship right, it is going to be because I am trying to give him a

break for what he did. No stable/healthy person pushes their kid(s) out

of their life over a disagreement. So if I allow him back in my life I

foresee me saying, " Dad, I have come to believe that you have BPD.

Because of this, I want to disregard the things that were said and done

these past few months and move past it if you are willing. " Otherwise, I

am forced to wait for an apology that will never come.

>

> My kids are 6 and younger and so far my dad has treated them well. It

seems he starts playing his mind games around puberty (once a child

starts to display a minf of their own). He seems to be able to handle

normal childhood " betrayals " (like when they tell you they love someone

else more than you or don't want to see the cool new toy you bought them

because they are engrossed in a bug). He might go hide in his room, but

he doesn't say or do anything and he bounces back. It is when children

become willful and defiant that he starts to push them away permanently.

>

> But now that I am aware of things I do want to monitor extra closely.

And of course there is the problem of whether or not to allow

overnights. My parents treat them well, but I know they also fight in

front of them (thinking just because they are in the next room they

aren't listening).

>

> Anyway, thanks again. It helped just to share my story. I am still

waiting on my books to help me understand more and would love anymore

advice anyone has.

>

[Guest guest]

Well said, Doug. Really, Really well said.

Sunspot

> **

>

>

>

> Again, I know how much you, and all of us, operate on the desire to "

> make our relationship right. "

>

> Sadly, so very sadly, that is not possible with a BP. They cannot have

> normal , healthy relationships. You have to work on being healthy in

> your life and with your family. He can only be a part of that where he

> is willing to behave in a normal rational manner. Often that means

> that, yes, tragically, he will choose to be the way he is rather than

> choose you or your children.

>

> You need not say, Dad I think you have BPD, to be fair and reasonable in

> saying Dad, I think you owe me an apology for the things you have said.

> But whether you choose to apologize or not, I will no longer tolerate

> such behavior from you. If you act that way again, on the phone, I

> will hang up, in person I will walk away , or if you are at my home I

> will ask you to leave. If you do not want to discuss certain issues

> because they are too emotional, that is fine. But I will insist on being

> treated with respect.

>

> And I should warn you, as I do so often with KO s of BPs, about your

> children. He will turn on them cruelly, as he did with you, the first

> time one shows the least amount of independant thought. He will play

> mind games with them as surely as he breathes, for that is what he is.

> And my caveat, as a child raised by a BP mom, to all KO s. Never, ever,

> under any circumstances, for any length of time whatsoever, leave a

> child of any age with a BP alone. I d rather buy them a pit bull and a

> fighting chicken and let them keep them in their bedroom.

>

> I know you want to have a normal relationship with Dad, and the kids to

> have a normal Grandpa. I m sorry, really. We all want that. But it is

> not in the cards with a BP.

>

>

> Doug

>

>

> >

> > Thanks so much for replying, Katrina!

> >

> > My sister doesn't want me to tell him what I think either. I just

> don't think I can NOT tell him if we ever do get in a serious

> conversation again. IF I decide to do whatever it takes to make the

> relationship right, it is going to be because I am trying to give him a

> break for what he did. No stable/healthy person pushes their kid(s) out

> of their life over a disagreement. So if I allow him back in my life I

> foresee me saying, " Dad, I have come to believe that you have BPD.

> Because of this, I want to disregard the things that were said and done

> these past few months and move past it if you are willing. " Otherwise, I

> am forced to wait for an apology that will never come.

> >

> > My kids are 6 and younger and so far my dad has treated them well. It

> seems he starts playing his mind games around puberty (once a child

> starts to display a minf of their own). He seems to be able to handle

> normal childhood " betrayals " (like when they tell you they love someone

> else more than you or don't want to see the cool new toy you bought them

> because they are engrossed in a bug). He might go hide in his room, but

> he doesn't say or do anything and he bounces back. It is when children

> become willful and defiant that he starts to push them away permanently.

> >

> > But now that I am aware of things I do want to monitor extra closely.

> And of course there is the problem of whether or not to allow

> overnights. My parents treat them well, but I know they also fight in

> front of them (thinking just because they are in the next room they

> aren't listening).

> >

> > Anyway, thanks again. It helped just to share my story. I am still

> waiting on my books to help me understand more and would love anymore

> advice anyone has.

> >

>

>

>