crazy conversation with brother

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone,

So I just had a REALLY insane conversation with my brother. He lives with my

nada and is completely enmeshed with her. Recently I went LC with her and made

it very clear what I would and would not put up with from her. In the past he

has always called to tell me what I'm doing wrong, how it's upsetting her, what

I need to do to fix it. I've tried to make it very clear that I won't tolerate

that either.

So he texted me asking me to call him and that he promised no drama. Yeah

right!! I told my husband I shouldn't call and he convinced me to do it. I

called and he started telling me how my waif nada is in a bad place, how she's

been so mean to him (her queen coming out) and how I should try to avoid her.

It's obvious that he's lost and so alone. He has no one.

Here is where it gets weird. My fada, who we both believe has narcissistic

personality disorder, really did a number on my brother. He was verbally

abusive to him from a young age. My brother worked for him for years so they

were in close contact. He was never good enough...it was pretty bad. My fada

ignored me for most of my life except for giving me money so until my mid

twenties I never had the same issues w/ him. However, I agree that he's crazy

and I'm now NC with him because of what he's done.

So my brother just told me how he has a lot of time on his hands (he's

unemployed of course) and he's thinking about killing my dad. He wasn't that

blunt but it was pretty bizarre and obvious that he's put some thought into it.

When I used the words " kill our dad " he whispered " don't use those words out

loud " in a really creepy voice. He still completely views my mom as the victim

(she's the waif who fell victim to my fada her whole life) and he thinks they

could get money out of his life insurance policy. I don't know that he would

actually follow through, or if he was even serious, but WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!?!

Who says that?!?!?!? My brother is clearly very mentally ill. I tried to state

the obvious that he'd go to jail and it's morally wrong, but I wasn't about

ready to get into a debate about whether or not it's a good choice.

I briefly thought about calling the police but I don't know what good that would

do. They've never really helped in the past with any of the issues I've had

with them (suicide attempts, etc). Not doing anything makes me feel weird but

what do you do?

I'm feeling good about the fact that I've chosen not to have a lot of contact

with these people. So nuts. This makes me wonder if I need to completely cut

my brother off too. That is not normal and it's not healthy for me to be sucked

into conversations that are that disgustingly dysfunctional. I feel so bad for

the guy though. I wish I could help him. But as my T said a few weeks ago I am

officially fired from the job of rescuing anyone in my family ever again.

Thoughts?

[Guest guest]

Oh geez - - - so what did you say to your hubbie after conversation? i

think an I

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 7:49 PM, wishingitwasdifferent <

cartwright.heather@...> wrote:

> **

>

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> So I just had a REALLY insane conversation with my brother. He lives with

> my nada and is completely enmeshed with her. Recently I went LC with her

> and made it very clear what I would and would not put up with from her. In

> the past he has always called to tell me what I'm doing wrong, how it's

> upsetting her, what I need to do to fix it. I've tried to make it very

> clear that I won't tolerate that either.

>

> So he texted me asking me to call him and that he promised no drama. Yeah

> right!! I told my husband I shouldn't call and he convinced me to do it. I

> called and he started telling me how my waif nada is in a bad place, how

> she's been so mean to him (her queen coming out) and how I should try to

> avoid her. It's obvious that he's lost and so alone. He has no one.

> Oh

> Here is where it gets weird. My fada, who we both believe has narcissistic

> personality disorder, really did a number on my brother. He was verbally

> abusive to him from a young age. My brother worked for him for years so

> they were in close contact. He was never good enough...it was pretty bad.

> My fada ignored me for most of my life except for giving me money so until

> my mid twenties I never had the same issues w/ him. However, I agree that

> he's crazy and I'm now NC with him because of what he's done.

>

> So my brother just told me how he has a lot of time on his hands (he's

> unemployed of course) and he's thinking about killing my dad. He wasn't

> that blunt but it was pretty bizarre and obvious that he's put some thought

> into it. When I used the words " kill our dad " he whispered " don't use those

> words out loud " in a really creepy voice. He still completely views my mom

> as the victim (she's the waif who fell victim to my fada her whole life)

> and he thinks they could get money out of his life insurance policy. I

> don't know that he would actually follow through, or if he was even

> serious, but WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!?! Who says that?!?!?!? My brother is

> clearly very mentally ill. I tried to state the obvious that he'd go to

> jail and it's morally wrong, but I wasn't about ready to get into a debate

> about whether or not it's a good choice.

>

> I briefly thought about calling the police but I don't know what good that

> would do. They've never really helped in the past with any of the issues

> I've had with them (suicide attempts, etc). Not doing anything makes me

> feel weird but what do you do?

>

> I'm feeling good about the fact that I've chosen not to have a lot of

> contact with these people. So nuts. This makes me wonder if I need to

> completely cut my brother off too. That is not normal and it's not healthy

> for me to be sucked into conversations that are that disgustingly

> dysfunctional. I feel so bad for the guy though. I wish I could help him.

> But as my T said a few weeks ago I am officially fired from the job of

> rescuing anyone in my family ever again.

>

> Thoughts?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Okay, I agree with your T that you are fired from rescuing your family.

That said, and maybe I'm wrong, this is just my opinion and gut reaction: if you

feel your brother is serious and not just frustrated (for example, I have said

in a moment of frustration about my boss " I just want to strangle him! " I have

no intention of doing so, I'm just expressing my level of frustration). If you

feel your brother truly poses a credible threat and is seriously considering

MURDER, then you need to alert the authorities. Even if they do nothing about it

and even if nothing happens, this is something you need to do to protect

yourself. I believe that, if your brother were to follow through on his threats,

if the police found out that you knew he had been planning this and you did

nothing, you could be charged with being a party to the murder or conspiracy.

You may completely hate your father, but a jury probably would still probably

believe you need to prevent his murder.

Again, I am not intending to invalidate your feelings about your family. What

you feel--the anger, the dislike, the injury--totally valid. I'm just saying

that, unfortunately, you might actually have some legal duty to report this kind

of a threat.

You could just call the police and ask " if someone told me they were planning on

killing someone, and I believe they are serious, what do I do? " Then they can

tell you how to report the threat or not.

To get back to your heading: WOW, yes, totally crazy conversation with brother

and what a jerk for telling you so that now you have to be a party to it.

Good luck,

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> So I just had a REALLY insane conversation with my brother. He lives with my

nada and is completely enmeshed with her. Recently I went LC with her and made

it very clear what I would and would not put up with from her. In the past he

has always called to tell me what I'm doing wrong, how it's upsetting her, what

I need to do to fix it. I've tried to make it very clear that I won't tolerate

that either.

>

> So he texted me asking me to call him and that he promised no drama. Yeah

right!! I told my husband I shouldn't call and he convinced me to do it. I

called and he started telling me how my waif nada is in a bad place, how she's

been so mean to him (her queen coming out) and how I should try to avoid her.

It's obvious that he's lost and so alone. He has no one.

>

> Here is where it gets weird. My fada, who we both believe has narcissistic

personality disorder, really did a number on my brother. He was verbally

abusive to him from a young age. My brother worked for him for years so they

were in close contact. He was never good enough...it was pretty bad. My fada

ignored me for most of my life except for giving me money so until my mid

twenties I never had the same issues w/ him. However, I agree that he's crazy

and I'm now NC with him because of what he's done.

>

> So my brother just told me how he has a lot of time on his hands (he's

unemployed of course) and he's thinking about killing my dad. He wasn't that

blunt but it was pretty bizarre and obvious that he's put some thought into it.

When I used the words " kill our dad " he whispered " don't use those words out

loud " in a really creepy voice. He still completely views my mom as the victim

(she's the waif who fell victim to my fada her whole life) and he thinks they

could get money out of his life insurance policy. I don't know that he would

actually follow through, or if he was even serious, but WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!?!

Who says that?!?!?!? My brother is clearly very mentally ill. I tried to state

the obvious that he'd go to jail and it's morally wrong, but I wasn't about

ready to get into a debate about whether or not it's a good choice.

>

> I briefly thought about calling the police but I don't know what good that

would do. They've never really helped in the past with any of the issues I've

had with them (suicide attempts, etc). Not doing anything makes me feel weird

but what do you do?

>

> I'm feeling good about the fact that I've chosen not to have a lot of contact

with these people. So nuts. This makes me wonder if I need to completely cut

my brother off too. That is not normal and it's not healthy for me to be sucked

into conversations that are that disgustingly dysfunctional. I feel so bad for

the guy though. I wish I could help him. But as my T said a few weeks ago I am

officially fired from the job of rescuing anyone in my family ever again.

>

> Thoughts?

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for responding. I feel uncomfortable about writing this on here, because

this seems even a bit too crazy for this board. And people here are used to

crazy people so that doesn't make me feel good.

I don't know if I think he's serious. Probably not, but I do think that he has

actually put thought into the fact that ending my father's life could solve a

lot of his problems. It's so insane to me that it's hard to actually digest the

fact that he has had those thoughts. He seemed surprised that I have never

fantasized about harming anyone. At his core I do think he's a kind

person...it's like they damaged his soul or something by subjecting him to so

much emotional abuse.

It's weird because I don't hate my father like by brother does. I see him as a

pathetic and sad individual that is so toxic I just can't have him in my life.

I try to remember the good things in him. He didn't do to me what he did to my

brother though. I'd probably hate him a lot more if he had. However, I think

my brother inherited one or both of my parents' personality disorders and is

completely incapable of seeing that he has any control over his current life

situation and future.

I often feel like there is no one out there that could understand the insanity

of my family. What he was saying last night was shocking for sure, but I'm so

used to the craziness of them that it doesn't shock me as much as it should.

I did ask someone that had been in law enforcement and they said I have no legal

obligation. I talked to my T about it too and she didn't think that I had any

legal obligation or that my calling the police or a mental hospital where he

lives would really do anything. I really don't think he'll do anything, but to

clear my conscious and possibly help convince him not to I had thought of

sending him an email saying something along the lines of " If anything suspicious

happens I will report you to the police and you will wind up spending your life

in jail. In the future I don't want you sharing thoughts/ideas like this with

me because they are incredibly upsetting and the threat of homicide is not

something that any sane person would take lightly. My sincere hope is that you

can get the psychological help that you need to work your way through the pain

they caused you and let go of the anger " . Short and sweet. And then not

respond to his response, because that's how you get sucked into the drama and

madness.

Out of all of the insane things these crazy makers have put me through the fact

that I'm having an email conversation with complete strangers about my brother

possibly murdering my father is still shocking to me. I get the feeling that

their behavior will just continue to escalate and escalate forever. NC with all

of them might be my only option...

Thanks again to everyone on this board for being an ear and offering good

advice. Hopefully the stronger I get I " ll be able to give back some of the

support that I've received from all of you.

> >

> > Hi Everyone,

> >

> > So I just had a REALLY insane conversation with my brother. He lives with

my nada and is completely enmeshed with her. Recently I went LC with her and

made it very clear what I would and would not put up with from her. In the past

he has always called to tell me what I'm doing wrong, how it's upsetting her,

what I need to do to fix it. I've tried to make it very clear that I won't

tolerate that either.

> >

> > So he texted me asking me to call him and that he promised no drama. Yeah

right!! I told my husband I shouldn't call and he convinced me to do it. I

called and he started telling me how my waif nada is in a bad place, how she's

been so mean to him (her queen coming out) and how I should try to avoid her.

It's obvious that he's lost and so alone. He has no one.

> >

> > Here is where it gets weird. My fada, who we both believe has narcissistic

personality disorder, really did a number on my brother. He was verbally

abusive to him from a young age. My brother worked for him for years so they

were in close contact. He was never good enough...it was pretty bad. My fada

ignored me for most of my life except for giving me money so until my mid

twenties I never had the same issues w/ him. However, I agree that he's crazy

and I'm now NC with him because of what he's done.

> >

> > So my brother just told me how he has a lot of time on his hands (he's

unemployed of course) and he's thinking about killing my dad. He wasn't that

blunt but it was pretty bizarre and obvious that he's put some thought into it.

When I used the words " kill our dad " he whispered " don't use those words out

loud " in a really creepy voice. He still completely views my mom as the victim

(she's the waif who fell victim to my fada her whole life) and he thinks they

could get money out of his life insurance policy. I don't know that he would

actually follow through, or if he was even serious, but WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!?!

Who says that?!?!?!? My brother is clearly very mentally ill. I tried to state

the obvious that he'd go to jail and it's morally wrong, but I wasn't about

ready to get into a debate about whether or not it's a good choice.

> >

> > I briefly thought about calling the police but I don't know what good that

would do. They've never really helped in the past with any of the issues I've

had with them (suicide attempts, etc). Not doing anything makes me feel weird

but what do you do?

> >

> > I'm feeling good about the fact that I've chosen not to have a lot of

contact with these people. So nuts. This makes me wonder if I need to

completely cut my brother off too. That is not normal and it's not healthy for

me to be sucked into conversations that are that disgustingly dysfunctional. I

feel so bad for the guy though. I wish I could help him. But as my T said a

few weeks ago I am officially fired from the job of rescuing anyone in my family

ever again.

> >

> > Thoughts?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I know what you mean. We think our lives were normal because we didn't know any

different. It's hard to realize how truly crazy our families are, and that

'normal'I families are not like that.

I'm glad you asked about your legal responsibility. I was concerned for you more

than anything, but if you think it's just 'venting' from your brother,, that's

good.

Don't ever apologize for sharing anything that's happening, no matter how crazy.

We here know what it's like to have crazy families and we will help however we

can. Don't feel bad because you have to share something hard, that's what we are

here for. I am glad you shared your conversation with your brother.

These are the types of things that no one but KOs can understand.

Just a thought, if your brother brings this up againm maybe it would be good to

set up the boundary and say 'bro, I will not have a conversation with you when

you talk about things like this. That is the sort of thing you need to to

discuss with you therqpist. "

> > >

> > > Hi Everyone,

> > >

> > > So I just had a REALLY insane conversation with my brother. He lives with

my nada and is completely enmeshed with her. Recently I went LC with her and

made it very clear what I would and would not put up with from her. In the past

he has always called to tell me what I'm doing wrong, how it's upsetting her,

what I need to do to fix it. I've tried to make it very clear that I won't

tolerate that either.

> > >

> > > So he texted me asking me to call him and that he promised no drama. Yeah

right!! I told my husband I shouldn't call and he convinced me to do it. I

called and he started telling me how my waif nada is in a bad place, how she's

been so mean to him (her queen coming out) and how I should try to avoid her.

It's obvious that he's lost and so alone. He has no one.

> > >

> > > Here is where it gets weird. My fada, who we both believe has

narcissistic personality disorder, really did a number on my brother. He was

verbally abusive to him from a young age. My brother worked for him for years

so they were in close contact. He was never good enough...it was pretty bad.

My fada ignored me for most of my life except for giving me money so until my

mid twenties I never had the same issues w/ him. However, I agree that he's

crazy and I'm now NC with him because of what he's done.

> > >

> > > So my brother just told me how he has a lot of time on his hands (he's

unemployed of course) and he's thinking about killing my dad. He wasn't that

blunt but it was pretty bizarre and obvious that he's put some thought into it.

When I used the words " kill our dad " he whispered " don't use those words out

loud " in a really creepy voice. He still completely views my mom as the victim

(she's the waif who fell victim to my fada her whole life) and he thinks they

could get money out of his life insurance policy. I don't know that he would

actually follow through, or if he was even serious, but WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!?!

Who says that?!?!?!? My brother is clearly very mentally ill. I tried to state

the obvious that he'd go to jail and it's morally wrong, but I wasn't about

ready to get into a debate about whether or not it's a good choice.

> > >

> > > I briefly thought about calling the police but I don't know what good that

would do. They've never really helped in the past with any of the issues I've

had with them (suicide attempts, etc). Not doing anything makes me feel weird

but what do you do?

> > >

> > > I'm feeling good about the fact that I've chosen not to have a lot of

contact with these people. So nuts. This makes me wonder if I need to

completely cut my brother off too. That is not normal and it's not healthy for

me to be sucked into conversations that are that disgustingly dysfunctional. I

feel so bad for the guy though. I wish I could help him. But as my T said a

few weeks ago I am officially fired from the job of rescuing anyone in my family

ever again.

> > >

> > > Thoughts?

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hey there,

Wanted to drop my $0.02 on this issue........first of all, I'm so sorry that you

even had to witness those words coming out of your brother's mouth. I'm sure

you're wondering how far down the rabbit hole goes and whether or not it even

ends. It's a very difficult thing that you had to hear, and I pray and hope

that your brother doesn't seriously consider doing anything of the sort.

That said, I have to second two things said to you. First, please don't

stop sharing your experiences with this group. Keeping this sort of stuff

bottled up toxic to you and has long-term negative consequences for you and

everyone else directly involved. It's much easier to convince others of a

delusion when the truth is silenced. Speaking your truth is one of the ways you

keep your power and fight against that cycle of illness. As well, you have no

idea how many people at the receiving end of your message are less isolated

because of their own family issues, less afraid to share their own stories, and

more empowered by learning more -- all from you sharing your personal

experience.

The second thing: I would also advise you to inform the police about what your

brother said. If a therapist or other mandated reporter overheard what he said,

they would have both a legal and ethical obligation to report it to the police.

In your case, just to ensure there is no confusion about your role in the

matter, meaning nothing could be misconstrued to look as if you took part in

anything, I would highly suggest filing a report. I would hate to see something

happen and you get implicated as an accessory because nothing was on the books

to negate that claim.

I hope everything works out for the best.

________________________________

From: afldancer & lt;danceralamode@... & gt;

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 10:51 PM

Subject: Re: crazy conversation with brother

 

I know what you mean. We think our lives were normal because we didn & #39;t know

any different. It & #39;s hard to realize how truly crazy our families are, and

that & #39;normal & #39;I families are not like that.

I & #39;m glad you asked about your legal responsibility. I was concerned for you

more than anything, but if you think it & #39;s just & #39;venting & #39; from your

brother,, that & #39;s good.

Don & #39;t ever apologize for sharing anything that & #39;s happening, no matter

how crazy. We here know what it & #39;s like to have crazy families and we will

help however we can. Don & #39;t feel bad because you have to share something

hard, that & #39;s what we are here for. I am glad you shared your conversation

with your brother.

These are the types of things that no one but KOs can understand.

Just a thought, if your brother brings this up againm maybe it would be good to

set up the boundary and say & #39;bro, I will not have a conversation with you

when you talk about things like this. That is the sort of thing you need to to

discuss with you therqpist. & quot;

& gt; & gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt; & gt; Hi Everyone,

& gt; & gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt; & gt; So I just had a REALLY insane conversation with my brother. He

lives with my nada and is completely enmeshed with her. Recently I went LC with

her and made it very clear what I would and would not put up with from her. In

the past he has always called to tell me what I & #39;m doing wrong, how it & #39;s

upsetting her, what I need to do to fix it. I & #39;ve tried to make it very

clear that I won & #39;t tolerate that either.

& gt; & gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt; & gt; So he texted me asking me to call him and that he promised no

drama. Yeah right!! I told my husband I shouldn & #39;t call and he convinced me

to do it. I called and he started telling me how my waif nada is in a bad

place, how she & #39;s been so mean to him (her queen coming out) and how I should

try to avoid her. It & #39;s obvious that he & #39;s lost and so alone. He has no

one.

& gt; & gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt; & gt; Here is where it gets weird. My fada, who we both believe has

narcissistic personality disorder, really did a number on my brother. He was

verbally abusive to him from a young age. My brother worked for him for years

so they were in close contact. He was never good enough...it was pretty bad.

My fada ignored me for most of my life except for giving me money so until my

mid twenties I never had the same issues w/ him. However, I agree that he & #39;s

crazy and I & #39;m now NC with him because of what he & #39;s done.

& gt; & gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt; & gt; So my brother just told me how he has a lot of time on his hands

(he & #39;s unemployed of course) and he & #39;s thinking about killing my dad. He

wasn & #39;t that blunt but it was pretty bizarre and obvious that he & #39;s put

some thought into it. When I used the words & quot;kill our dad & quot; he

whispered & quot;don & #39;t use those words out loud & quot; in a really creepy

voice. He still completely views my mom as the victim (she & #39;s the waif who

fell victim to my fada her whole life) and he thinks they could get money out of

his life insurance policy. I don & #39;t know that he would actually follow

through, or if he was even serious, but WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!?! Who says

that?!?!?!? My brother is clearly very mentally ill. I tried to state the

obvious that he & #39;d go to jail and it & #39;s morally wrong, but I wasn & #39;t

about ready to get into a debate about whether or not it & #39;s a good choice.

& gt; & gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt; & gt; I briefly thought about calling the police but I don & #39;t know

what good that would do. They & #39;ve never really helped in the past with any

of the issues I & #39;ve had with them (suicide attempts, etc). Not doing

anything makes me feel weird but what do you do?

& gt; & gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt; & gt; I & #39;m feeling good about the fact that I & #39;ve chosen not to

have a lot of contact with these people. So nuts. This makes me wonder if I

need to completely cut my brother off too. That is not normal and it & #39;s not

healthy for me to be sucked into conversations that are that disgustingly

dysfunctional. I feel so bad for the guy though. I wish I could help him. But

as my T said a few weeks ago I am officially fired from the job of rescuing

anyone in my family ever again.

& gt; & gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt; & gt; Thoughts?

& gt; & gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt;

& gt;

[Guest guest]

OMG!!! You may be retired from rescuing your family, but if I were you I would

contact your T and ask for guidance. There probably isn't anything you can do to

prevent whatever moves your brother makes, but for the sake of your own

conscience you need to get professional advice.

I suggest this for your sake, since if he does go after fada, as long as you did

due diligence in notifying others who could intervene before a tragedy occurs,

you will know you did the right thing and your conscience with not suffer.

Your poor brother, he must be suffering so. I hope for his sake he never

complicates his life this way and instead gets some counseling.

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> So I just had a REALLY insane conversation with my brother. He lives with my

nada and is completely enmeshed with her. Recently I went LC with her and made

it very clear what I would and would not put up with from her. In the past he

has always called to tell me what I'm doing wrong, how it's upsetting her, what

I need to do to fix it. I've tried to make it very clear that I won't tolerate

that either.

>

> So he texted me asking me to call him and that he promised no drama. Yeah

right!! I told my husband I shouldn't call and he convinced me to do it. I

called and he started telling me how my waif nada is in a bad place, how she's

been so mean to him (her queen coming out) and how I should try to avoid her.

It's obvious that he's lost and so alone. He has no one.

>

> Here is where it gets weird. My fada, who we both believe has narcissistic

personality disorder, really did a number on my brother. He was verbally

abusive to him from a young age. My brother worked for him for years so they

were in close contact. He was never good enough...it was pretty bad. My fada

ignored me for most of my life except for giving me money so until my mid

twenties I never had the same issues w/ him. However, I agree that he's crazy

and I'm now NC with him because of what he's done.

>

> So my brother just told me how he has a lot of time on his hands (he's

unemployed of course) and he's thinking about killing my dad. He wasn't that

blunt but it was pretty bizarre and obvious that he's put some thought into it.

When I used the words " kill our dad " he whispered " don't use those words out

loud " in a really creepy voice. He still completely views my mom as the victim

(she's the waif who fell victim to my fada her whole life) and he thinks they

could get money out of his life insurance policy. I don't know that he would

actually follow through, or if he was even serious, but WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!?!

Who says that?!?!?!? My brother is clearly very mentally ill. I tried to state

the obvious that he'd go to jail and it's morally wrong, but I wasn't about

ready to get into a debate about whether or not it's a good choice.

>

> I briefly thought about calling the police but I don't know what good that

would do. They've never really helped in the past with any of the issues I've

had with them (suicide attempts, etc). Not doing anything makes me feel weird

but what do you do?

>

> I'm feeling good about the fact that I've chosen not to have a lot of contact

with these people. So nuts. This makes me wonder if I need to completely cut

my brother off too. That is not normal and it's not healthy for me to be sucked

into conversations that are that disgustingly dysfunctional. I feel so bad for

the guy though. I wish I could help him. But as my T said a few weeks ago I am

officially fired from the job of rescuing anyone in my family ever again.

>

> Thoughts?

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your response. I saw my T last night and told her about it. She

agrees that contacting a mental hospital or the police wouldn't do any good. If

he really wants to do it, he's going to do it. As she said he is so messed up

he probably needs an extended stay at a mental health care facility and 3 days a

week follow up for years. He isn't going to do that. I really don't think he'd

do it though. Luckily they don't live close anymore either so it would be a

pretty big effort to get to him.

I did send him an email saying that I " m sorry he's suffering so much, I

understand that he's angry, etc. I said at the end that if anything happens to

fada I'm calling the police and that he would be giving him the ultimate power

in ruining his life. Ugh. This sucks.

It's frustrating because my husband's response is " stop thinking about it " .

Easier said than done obviously. Don't think his sisters will ever threaten to

murder one of his parents!!

> >

> > Hi Everyone,

> >

> > So I just had a REALLY insane conversation with my brother. He lives with

my nada and is completely enmeshed with her. Recently I went LC with her and

made it very clear what I would and would not put up with from her. In the past

he has always called to tell me what I'm doing wrong, how it's upsetting her,

what I need to do to fix it. I've tried to make it very clear that I won't

tolerate that either.

> >

> > So he texted me asking me to call him and that he promised no drama. Yeah

right!! I told my husband I shouldn't call and he convinced me to do it. I

called and he started telling me how my waif nada is in a bad place, how she's

been so mean to him (her queen coming out) and how I should try to avoid her.

It's obvious that he's lost and so alone. He has no one.

> >

> > Here is where it gets weird. My fada, who we both believe has narcissistic

personality disorder, really did a number on my brother. He was verbally

abusive to him from a young age. My brother worked for him for years so they

were in close contact. He was never good enough...it was pretty bad. My fada

ignored me for most of my life except for giving me money so until my mid

twenties I never had the same issues w/ him. However, I agree that he's crazy

and I'm now NC with him because of what he's done.

> >

> > So my brother just told me how he has a lot of time on his hands (he's

unemployed of course) and he's thinking about killing my dad. He wasn't that

blunt but it was pretty bizarre and obvious that he's put some thought into it.

When I used the words " kill our dad " he whispered " don't use those words out

loud " in a really creepy voice. He still completely views my mom as the victim

(she's the waif who fell victim to my fada her whole life) and he thinks they

could get money out of his life insurance policy. I don't know that he would

actually follow through, or if he was even serious, but WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!?!

Who says that?!?!?!? My brother is clearly very mentally ill. I tried to state

the obvious that he'd go to jail and it's morally wrong, but I wasn't about

ready to get into a debate about whether or not it's a good choice.

> >

> > I briefly thought about calling the police but I don't know what good that

would do. They've never really helped in the past with any of the issues I've

had with them (suicide attempts, etc). Not doing anything makes me feel weird

but what do you do?

> >

> > I'm feeling good about the fact that I've chosen not to have a lot of

contact with these people. So nuts. This makes me wonder if I need to

completely cut my brother off too. That is not normal and it's not healthy for

me to be sucked into conversations that are that disgustingly dysfunctional. I

feel so bad for the guy though. I wish I could help him. But as my T said a

few weeks ago I am officially fired from the job of rescuing anyone in my family

ever again.

> >

> > Thoughts?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That was probably a pretty good response: you were reminding your brother that

if your brother allows your fada to goad him into doing harm to fada or

murdering fada, then your brother IS giving his power away to fada and (in a

metaphorical sense) " letting " fada ruin the rest of his life. AND that if

something suspicious happens to your fada, that yes, you WILL report what your

brother has said to you, to the police.

I hope that is enough to give your brother the self-awareness and self-control

to just walk away if he's feeling alarmingly close to the edge of committing

mayhem.

And I agree with an earlier response to your question, that yes, its OK to set

this boundary with your brother and tell him its NOT OK to discuss his thoughts,

feelings, and fantasies of murdering your fada, with you. That if he's having

these unhealthy thoughts and feelings that he needs to get himself into therapy,

and if he brings up this topic again, you will hang up the phone.

At the same time, I am truly amazed and rather appalled that there is not a

similar " mandated reporting " system in place RE suspected elder abuse, as there

is for suspected child abuse.

I truly would have guessed that yes, if someone mentions that they are thinking

about killing another person (elderly parent, child, love object, anyone) and if

you can't tell if they are joking, and if they mention this more than once,

that it is simply standard operating procedure to report that to the police.

Its similar, in my opinion, to hearing someone say that they're thinking about

killing themselves. The standard advice now is to take suicide attempts or even

threats of suicide seriously so the individual will be taken in for (an

involuntary) psychiatric evaluation and get treatment.

The point or the underlying issue being that you would do this to absolve

yourself from feeling any guilt if the threatened murder or suicide does happen,

because you are right: if someone is bound and determined to commit murder or

kill themselves, there is really nothing you can do about it. But you can

prevent yourself or protect yourself from feeling guilt if you report threats of

murder or suicide to the proper authorities/agencies when you feel they are

genuine.

Just my two cent's worth. Each of us has to figure out what will or will not

work in our own individual cases, based on what we can and can't live with,

personally.

Best of luck to you with this; what a heart-wrenching and ulcer-inducing

situation to be in.

-Annie

> > >

> > > Hi Everyone,

> > >

> > > So I just had a REALLY insane conversation with my brother. He lives with

my nada and is completely enmeshed with her. Recently I went LC with her and

made it very clear what I would and would not put up with from her. In the past

he has always called to tell me what I'm doing wrong, how it's upsetting her,

what I need to do to fix it. I've tried to make it very clear that I won't

tolerate that either.

> > >

> > > So he texted me asking me to call him and that he promised no drama. Yeah

right!! I told my husband I shouldn't call and he convinced me to do it. I

called and he started telling me how my waif nada is in a bad place, how she's

been so mean to him (her queen coming out) and how I should try to avoid her.

It's obvious that he's lost and so alone. He has no one.

> > >

> > > Here is where it gets weird. My fada, who we both believe has

narcissistic personality disorder, really did a number on my brother. He was

verbally abusive to him from a young age. My brother worked for him for years

so they were in close contact. He was never good enough...it was pretty bad.

My fada ignored me for most of my life except for giving me money so until my

mid twenties I never had the same issues w/ him. However, I agree that he's

crazy and I'm now NC with him because of what he's done.

> > >

> > > So my brother just told me how he has a lot of time on his hands (he's

unemployed of course) and he's thinking about killing my dad. He wasn't that

blunt but it was pretty bizarre and obvious that he's put some thought into it.

When I used the words " kill our dad " he whispered " don't use those words out

loud " in a really creepy voice. He still completely views my mom as the victim

(she's the waif who fell victim to my fada her whole life) and he thinks they

could get money out of his life insurance policy. I don't know that he would

actually follow through, or if he was even serious, but WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!?!

Who says that?!?!?!? My brother is clearly very mentally ill. I tried to state

the obvious that he'd go to jail and it's morally wrong, but I wasn't about

ready to get into a debate about whether or not it's a good choice.

> > >

> > > I briefly thought about calling the police but I don't know what good that

would do. They've never really helped in the past with any of the issues I've

had with them (suicide attempts, etc). Not doing anything makes me feel weird

but what do you do?

> > >

> > > I'm feeling good about the fact that I've chosen not to have a lot of

contact with these people. So nuts. This makes me wonder if I need to

completely cut my brother off too. That is not normal and it's not healthy for

me to be sucked into conversations that are that disgustingly dysfunctional. I

feel so bad for the guy though. I wish I could help him. But as my T said a

few weeks ago I am officially fired from the job of rescuing anyone in my family

ever again.

> > >

> > > Thoughts?

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, my brother hasn't responded to me but apparently he told my nada about the

email. In it I referenced how both of our parents were complete failures and

that I understand his anger, etc. He clearly showed it to my mom and she just

texted me telling me not to worry about what he said. He " talks without

thinking " . Really?!!?!?

This is another strange thing that I don't understand about the two of them. He

thinks I'm mad at him, which I'm not, so his response is to show my nada an

email that would obviously upset her because of the content of what I was saying

about her and our childhood. I knew that writing it so I'm not surprised or

upset she saw it...just constantly perplexed by how bizarre and completely

self-serving their behaviors are. When she is upset with me she will tell him

how much I hate him so that he'll be on her side, completely disregarding the

fact that him thinking that his sister looks down on him would be upsetting to

him. When she's upset with fada, she'll tell us the terrible things he's said

about us w/o any consideration of how it makes someone feel to hear that about

their father. Unbelievable.

And I'm supposed to be grateful to her for looking out for me and telling me not

to be upset about what he said. Right. Maybe if she'd quit mind f***ing her

son every single day of his life he wouldn't have the thought that killing fada

would solve his problems.

I am so thankful that I didn't " catch " whatever they have. Thank god I somehow

protected myself. After thinking a lot about this I think that I just zone out

when it starts getting crazy. I noticed that I did it the other night when

brother was telling me his ideas about fada. I don't think I completely

disassociate, but I also don't allow my brain to be fully present because it's

so overwhelming to process. My guess is that this is a coping strategy I picked

up in childhood and I think one that probably served me very well.

When a new event like this happen in your lives do you find yourself to be

completely and totally exhausted? I am counting down until 8pm when my little

one goes to sleep so I can just crash. They wear me out.

> > > >

> > > > Hi Everyone,

> > > >

> > > > So I just had a REALLY insane conversation with my brother. He lives

with my nada and is completely enmeshed with her. Recently I went LC with her

and made it very clear what I would and would not put up with from her. In the

past he has always called to tell me what I'm doing wrong, how it's upsetting

her, what I need to do to fix it. I've tried to make it very clear that I won't

tolerate that either.

> > > >

> > > > So he texted me asking me to call him and that he promised no drama.

Yeah right!! I told my husband I shouldn't call and he convinced me to do it.

I called and he started telling me how my waif nada is in a bad place, how she's

been so mean to him (her queen coming out) and how I should try to avoid her.

It's obvious that he's lost and so alone. He has no one.

> > > >

> > > > Here is where it gets weird. My fada, who we both believe has

narcissistic personality disorder, really did a number on my brother. He was

verbally abusive to him from a young age. My brother worked for him for years

so they were in close contact. He was never good enough...it was pretty bad.

My fada ignored me for most of my life except for giving me money so until my

mid twenties I never had the same issues w/ him. However, I agree that he's

crazy and I'm now NC with him because of what he's done.

> > > >

> > > > So my brother just told me how he has a lot of time on his hands (he's

unemployed of course) and he's thinking about killing my dad. He wasn't that

blunt but it was pretty bizarre and obvious that he's put some thought into it.

When I used the words " kill our dad " he whispered " don't use those words out

loud " in a really creepy voice. He still completely views my mom as the victim

(she's the waif who fell victim to my fada her whole life) and he thinks they

could get money out of his life insurance policy. I don't know that he would

actually follow through, or if he was even serious, but WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!?!

Who says that?!?!?!? My brother is clearly very mentally ill. I tried to state

the obvious that he'd go to jail and it's morally wrong, but I wasn't about

ready to get into a debate about whether or not it's a good choice.

> > > >

> > > > I briefly thought about calling the police but I don't know what good

that would do. They've never really helped in the past with any of the issues

I've had with them (suicide attempts, etc). Not doing anything makes me feel

weird but what do you do?

> > > >

> > > > I'm feeling good about the fact that I've chosen not to have a lot of

contact with these people. So nuts. This makes me wonder if I need to

completely cut my brother off too. That is not normal and it's not healthy for

me to be sucked into conversations that are that disgustingly dysfunctional. I

feel so bad for the guy though. I wish I could help him. But as my T said a

few weeks ago I am officially fired from the job of rescuing anyone in my family

ever again.

> > > >

> > > > Thoughts?

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

OMG I take it back. He has responded. He has called my cell phone 4 times and

my home phone 3 times in the past 15 minutes. It's driving both me and my

husband nuts. I of course feel like I have some obligation to make the phone

calls stop. I do NOT want to talk to him. At all. He can write back if he

has something sane to say. I'm not getting sucked further into this. God I

hate this.

Just had to vent:(

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi Everyone,

> > > > >

> > > > > So I just had a REALLY insane conversation with my brother. He lives

with my nada and is completely enmeshed with her. Recently I went LC with her

and made it very clear what I would and would not put up with from her. In the

past he has always called to tell me what I'm doing wrong, how it's upsetting

her, what I need to do to fix it. I've tried to make it very clear that I won't

tolerate that either.

> > > > >

> > > > > So he texted me asking me to call him and that he promised no drama.

Yeah right!! I told my husband I shouldn't call and he convinced me to do it.

I called and he started telling me how my waif nada is in a bad place, how she's

been so mean to him (her queen coming out) and how I should try to avoid her.

It's obvious that he's lost and so alone. He has no one.

> > > > >

> > > > > Here is where it gets weird. My fada, who we both believe has

narcissistic personality disorder, really did a number on my brother. He was

verbally abusive to him from a young age. My brother worked for him for years

so they were in close contact. He was never good enough...it was pretty bad.

My fada ignored me for most of my life except for giving me money so until my

mid twenties I never had the same issues w/ him. However, I agree that he's

crazy and I'm now NC with him because of what he's done.

> > > > >

> > > > > So my brother just told me how he has a lot of time on his hands (he's

unemployed of course) and he's thinking about killing my dad. He wasn't that

blunt but it was pretty bizarre and obvious that he's put some thought into it.

When I used the words " kill our dad " he whispered " don't use those words out

loud " in a really creepy voice. He still completely views my mom as the victim

(she's the waif who fell victim to my fada her whole life) and he thinks they

could get money out of his life insurance policy. I don't know that he would

actually follow through, or if he was even serious, but WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!?!

Who says that?!?!?!? My brother is clearly very mentally ill. I tried to state

the obvious that he'd go to jail and it's morally wrong, but I wasn't about

ready to get into a debate about whether or not it's a good choice.

> > > > >

> > > > > I briefly thought about calling the police but I don't know what good

that would do. They've never really helped in the past with any of the issues

I've had with them (suicide attempts, etc). Not doing anything makes me feel

weird but what do you do?

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm feeling good about the fact that I've chosen not to have a lot of

contact with these people. So nuts. This makes me wonder if I need to

completely cut my brother off too. That is not normal and it's not healthy for

me to be sucked into conversations that are that disgustingly dysfunctional. I

feel so bad for the guy though. I wish I could help him. But as my T said a

few weeks ago I am officially fired from the job of rescuing anyone in my family

ever again.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thoughts?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hang in there; hold your ground. You are not obligated to return his phone

calls if you have set the boundary of " written communication only " with your

brother. He's trying to harass you into responding to him verbally, but you do

not have to. I'm glad you have your husband there to help you get through this

frustrating and aggravating behavior on your brother's part.

Vent here anytime. We get it.

Annie

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hi Everyone,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So I just had a REALLY insane conversation with my brother. He

lives with my nada and is completely enmeshed with her. Recently I went LC with

her and made it very clear what I would and would not put up with from her. In

the past he has always called to tell me what I'm doing wrong, how it's

upsetting her, what I need to do to fix it. I've tried to make it very clear

that I won't tolerate that either.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So he texted me asking me to call him and that he promised no drama.

Yeah right!! I told my husband I shouldn't call and he convinced me to do it.

I called and he started telling me how my waif nada is in a bad place, how she's

been so mean to him (her queen coming out) and how I should try to avoid her.

It's obvious that he's lost and so alone. He has no one.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Here is where it gets weird. My fada, who we both believe has

narcissistic personality disorder, really did a number on my brother. He was

verbally abusive to him from a young age. My brother worked for him for years

so they were in close contact. He was never good enough...it was pretty bad.

My fada ignored me for most of my life except for giving me money so until my

mid twenties I never had the same issues w/ him. However, I agree that he's

crazy and I'm now NC with him because of what he's done.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So my brother just told me how he has a lot of time on his hands

(he's unemployed of course) and he's thinking about killing my dad. He wasn't

that blunt but it was pretty bizarre and obvious that he's put some thought into

it. When I used the words " kill our dad " he whispered " don't use those words

out loud " in a really creepy voice. He still completely views my mom as the

victim (she's the waif who fell victim to my fada her whole life) and he thinks

they could get money out of his life insurance policy. I don't know that he

would actually follow through, or if he was even serious, but WHAT THE

HELL?!?!?!?! Who says that?!?!?!? My brother is clearly very mentally ill. I

tried to state the obvious that he'd go to jail and it's morally wrong, but I

wasn't about ready to get into a debate about whether or not it's a good choice.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I briefly thought about calling the police but I don't know what

good that would do. They've never really helped in the past with any of the

issues I've had with them (suicide attempts, etc). Not doing anything makes me

feel weird but what do you do?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm feeling good about the fact that I've chosen not to have a lot

of contact with these people. So nuts. This makes me wonder if I need to

completely cut my brother off too. That is not normal and it's not healthy for

me to be sucked into conversations that are that disgustingly dysfunctional. I

feel so bad for the guy though. I wish I could help him. But as my T said a

few weeks ago I am officially fired from the job of rescuing anyone in my family

ever again.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thoughts?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I haven't actually set that boundary with him. Generally we just don't

talk that much. Going forward we might not talk at all. This is driving me

nuts. One message would be sufficient to let me know that you'd like to talk.

Not to mention that I have a 3 year old that I've made it clear I won't have

inappropriate adult conversations in front of. It's 7 so it's obvious he's

awake.

Got a message from a detective that is looking for my father. Apparently he

wrote a bad check so now I get to turn him in. Great.

I feel really sad right now. Usually I just get mad. I'm trying to feel the

sadness. I just want a normal family:(

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hi Everyone,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So I just had a REALLY insane conversation with my brother. He

lives with my nada and is completely enmeshed with her. Recently I went LC with

her and made it very clear what I would and would not put up with from her. In

the past he has always called to tell me what I'm doing wrong, how it's

upsetting her, what I need to do to fix it. I've tried to make it very clear

that I won't tolerate that either.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So he texted me asking me to call him and that he promised no

drama. Yeah right!! I told my husband I shouldn't call and he convinced me to

do it. I called and he started telling me how my waif nada is in a bad place,

how she's been so mean to him (her queen coming out) and how I should try to

avoid her. It's obvious that he's lost and so alone. He has no one.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Here is where it gets weird. My fada, who we both believe has

narcissistic personality disorder, really did a number on my brother. He was

verbally abusive to him from a young age. My brother worked for him for years

so they were in close contact. He was never good enough...it was pretty bad.

My fada ignored me for most of my life except for giving me money so until my

mid twenties I never had the same issues w/ him. However, I agree that he's

crazy and I'm now NC with him because of what he's done.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So my brother just told me how he has a lot of time on his hands

(he's unemployed of course) and he's thinking about killing my dad. He wasn't

that blunt but it was pretty bizarre and obvious that he's put some thought into

it. When I used the words " kill our dad " he whispered " don't use those words

out loud " in a really creepy voice. He still completely views my mom as the

victim (she's the waif who fell victim to my fada her whole life) and he thinks

they could get money out of his life insurance policy. I don't know that he

would actually follow through, or if he was even serious, but WHAT THE

HELL?!?!?!?! Who says that?!?!?!? My brother is clearly very mentally ill. I

tried to state the obvious that he'd go to jail and it's morally wrong, but I

wasn't about ready to get into a debate about whether or not it's a good choice.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I briefly thought about calling the police but I don't know what

good that would do. They've never really helped in the past with any of the

issues I've had with them (suicide attempts, etc). Not doing anything makes me

feel weird but what do you do?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'm feeling good about the fact that I've chosen not to have a lot

of contact with these people. So nuts. This makes me wonder if I need to

completely cut my brother off too. That is not normal and it's not healthy for

me to be sucked into conversations that are that disgustingly dysfunctional. I

feel so bad for the guy though. I wish I could help him. But as my T said a

few weeks ago I am officially fired from the job of rescuing anyone in my family

ever again.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thoughts?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

((((Wishing)))))

I can relate. I used to fluctuate between sadness and righteous

indignation/anger rather often. Of the two, I feel safer with anger. Its

empowering, energizing, and helps protect me. I feel that sadness makes me weak

and vulnerable to more abuse, and I just can't take much more abuse; after

decades of it I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel of my supply of resilience.

But, if you need to feel sad now, that's OK; if you need to go through some

grieving and mourning, then that's what you need to do.

-Annie

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hi Everyone,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So I just had a REALLY insane conversation with my brother. He

lives with my nada and is completely enmeshed with her. Recently I went LC with

her and made it very clear what I would and would not put up with from her. In

the past he has always called to tell me what I'm doing wrong, how it's

upsetting her, what I need to do to fix it. I've tried to make it very clear

that I won't tolerate that either.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So he texted me asking me to call him and that he promised no

drama. Yeah right!! I told my husband I shouldn't call and he convinced me to

do it. I called and he started telling me how my waif nada is in a bad place,

how she's been so mean to him (her queen coming out) and how I should try to

avoid her. It's obvious that he's lost and so alone. He has no one.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Here is where it gets weird. My fada, who we both believe has

narcissistic personality disorder, really did a number on my brother. He was

verbally abusive to him from a young age. My brother worked for him for years

so they were in close contact. He was never good enough...it was pretty bad.

My fada ignored me for most of my life except for giving me money so until my

mid twenties I never had the same issues w/ him. However, I agree that he's

crazy and I'm now NC with him because of what he's done.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So my brother just told me how he has a lot of time on his hands

(he's unemployed of course) and he's thinking about killing my dad. He wasn't

that blunt but it was pretty bizarre and obvious that he's put some thought into

it. When I used the words " kill our dad " he whispered " don't use those words

out loud " in a really creepy voice. He still completely views my mom as the

victim (she's the waif who fell victim to my fada her whole life) and he thinks

they could get money out of his life insurance policy. I don't know that he

would actually follow through, or if he was even serious, but WHAT THE

HELL?!?!?!?! Who says that?!?!?!? My brother is clearly very mentally ill. I

tried to state the obvious that he'd go to jail and it's morally wrong, but I

wasn't about ready to get into a debate about whether or not it's a good choice.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I briefly thought about calling the police but I don't know what

good that would do. They've never really helped in the past with any of the

issues I've had with them (suicide attempts, etc). Not doing anything makes me

feel weird but what do you do?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'm feeling good about the fact that I've chosen not to have a

lot of contact with these people. So nuts. This makes me wonder if I need to

completely cut my brother off too. That is not normal and it's not healthy for

me to be sucked into conversations that are that disgustingly dysfunctional. I

feel so bad for the guy though. I wish I could help him. But as my T said a

few weeks ago I am officially fired from the job of rescuing anyone in my family

ever again.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thoughts?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>