Guest guest Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 OK hypothetical situation, 20 year old wants to take a test to be able to get hired as a 9-1-1 dispatcher for County in Texas. When he was 16 he had a minor brush with the law. he was charged with criminal trespass and pled no contest with deferred adjudication. He has been told post his successful probation (by his Juv. Probation officer) nothing shows on his record other than the arrest. He is no told he is ineligible for public safety employment. Sound right? Comments on and or off list welcomed on this. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) (Home Phone) (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 In a message dated 10/13/2006 3:13:59 P.M. Central Daylight Time, RescueGirl96@... writes: His juvenile record should, or could be sealed. I am not 100% on this, but I believe it can be non-discloseable. -Meris :-) Ah now the rub is (OK this is NOT hypothetical) that due to the fact his Arrest for this shows even with deferred adjudication and all that jazz he's ineligible. At this point I'm wondering why we have such things as deferred adjudication and the like a the result seems the same as if found guilty? Oh but the fat lady has not yet sung. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) (Home Phone) (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 His juvenile record should, or could be sealed. I am not 100% on this, but I believe it can be non-discloseable. -Meris :-) > > OK hypothetical situation, > > 20 year old wants to take a test to be able to get hired as a 9-1-1 > dispatcher for County in Texas. When he was 16 he had a minor brush with > the law. he > was charged with criminal trespass and pled no contest with deferred > adjudication. He has been told post his successful probation (by his Juv. > Probation > officer) nothing shows on his record other than the arrest. > > He is no told he is ineligible for public safety employment. > > Sound right? > > Comments on and or off list welcomed on this. > > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI > Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant > > LNMolino@... <LNMolino%40aol.com> > > (Cell Phone) > (Home Phone) > (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) > (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) > > " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " > > " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds > discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) > > The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and > the > author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or > organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with > unless I > specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended > only for its > stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials > retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain > by the > original author. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 In a message dated 10/13/2006 6:15:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time, steve.dietz@... writes: Check out this website www.tcleose.state.tx.us There are certain classes and offenses that would negatively affect him becoming a Texas Police officer. But because he was a minor, he should be eligible for licensing in Texas. Always include the details of the arrest in the application, because in some areas; Deferred Adjudication is still considered a guilty state, despite the fact you served your probation successfully and case was dismissed. we've not even brought that up this was a 9-1-1 Dispatchers gig. We are exploring the other issues. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) (Home Phone) (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 Texas is an " at will " employment state; therefore the employer can refuse employment to anyone except when denial would violate the Constitution of the US, the Texas Constitution, Federal law or state law. To my knowledge there is no provision that would prohibit an employer from refusing to hire a person because of a previous arrest, even if not a conviction. Unless it violates the ADA, or is gender, racial, religious, or racial bias, there is no protection. An employer can refuse to employ one because of the shape of his nose so long as it doesn't fall within one of the protected categories. GG > > OK hypothetical situation, > > 20 year old wants to take a test to be able to get hired as a 9-1-1 > dispatcher for County in Texas. When he was 16 he had a minor brush with the > law. he > was charged with criminal trespass and pled no contest with deferred > adjudication. He has been told post his successful probation (by his Juv. > Probation > officer) nothing shows on his record other than the arrest. > > He is no told he is ineligible for public safety employment. > > Sound right? > > Comments on and or off list welcomed on this. > > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/ FF/ > Freelance Consultant/Trainer/ Freelance Cons Freelance Consultant/Traine > > LNMolino@... > > (Cell Phone) > (Home Phone) > (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) > (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) > > " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " > > " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds > discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) > > The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the > author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or > organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with > unless I > specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only > for its > stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials > retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by > the > original author. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 Meris is right. It should be sealed, but in my answer I was assuming that the kitty cat was out of the bag. If they're denying him employment, then they must know it somehow. That could have been through a background check. If they sent an investigator to talk to the neighbors, and they asked the neighbors if he had ever been in trouble, and the neighbors said yes and described the trouble, then whether or not the record is discoverable is moot. Of course, if he has substantial resources, he can hire a lawyer and pursue the matter through the courts. But if he had that kind of money, why the heck is he trying to get a job as a dispatcher? GG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 Louis, Do we HAVE to listen to the fat lady sing? Scheesh! The last time she sang my tomcat hid under the sofa and didn't come out for 3 days. GG > Ah now the rub is (OK this is NOT hypothetical) that due to the fact his > Arrest for this shows even with deferred adjudication and all that jazz he's > ineligible. At this point I'm wondering why we have such things as deferred > adjudication and the like a the result seems the same as if found guilty? > > Oh but the fat lady has not yet sung. > > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/ FF/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 Not in Texas for law enforcement purposes, unless it was specifically ordered by a judge - which I believe would now require an expungement... Mike > > His juvenile record should, or could be sealed. I am not 100% on this, > but > I believe it can be non-discloseable. > > -Meris :-) > > On 10/13/06, lnmolino@... <lnmolino%40aol.com> <lnmolino@...<lnmolino%40aol.com>> > wrote: > > > > OK hypothetical situation, > > > > 20 year old wants to take a test to be able to get hired as a 9-1-1 > > dispatcher for County in Texas. When he was 16 he had a minor brush with > > the law. he > > was charged with criminal trespass and pled no contest with deferred > > adjudication. He has been told post his successful probation (by his > Juv. > > Probation > > officer) nothing shows on his record other than the arrest. > > > > He is no told he is ineligible for public safety employment. > > > > Sound right? > > > > Comments on and or off list welcomed on this. > > > > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET > > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI > > Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection > Consultant > > > > LNMolino@... <LNMolino%40aol.com> <LNMolino%40aol.com> > > > > (Cell Phone) > > (Home Phone) > > (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) > > (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) > > > > " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " > > > > " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds > > discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) > > > > The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and > > the > > author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or > > organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with > > unless I > > specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended > > only for its > > stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials > > retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain > > by the > > original author. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 > > Ah now the rub is (OK this is NOT hypothetical) that due to the fact his > Arrest for this shows even with deferred adjudication and all that jazz he's > ineligible. At this point I'm wondering why we have such things as deferred > adjudication and the like a the result seems the same as if found guilty? With DA, there's no " final conviction, " meaning that future offenses cannot be enhanced and he has never been found guilty, for employment purposes, of any offense - no adjudication was ever entered. The difference, however, is that the arrest will ALWAYS show up on his criminal history check, but ONLY for " law enforcement sensitive " positions. In other words, " Joe Public " running a criminal history check on this person would not find a history (although the arrest record and court proceedings could, in some cases, wind up in " public information " databases like Accurint, etc.). A law-enforcement agency (and TCLEOSE) would, however, be able to see the arrest and some details, but would likely have to contact the court for the actual status (there would be no " conviction " on the history), and would likely ask the applicant, at which point the applicant admits to pleading guilty or no contest in exchange for deferred adjudication. That's where it gets tricky, and where TCLEOSE rules start to apply (and, for " real " , the DPS rules about who can and cannot be given access to TLETS/NLETS). Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 It also might be that he was told that as a way to be eliminated from the hiring process at the time. They probably have numerous applications and needed to cut down on the number of candidates. Also in some places any arrests would eliminate you from public service employment for a certain length of time. I know in Dallas County for instance you are ineligible for law enforcement jobs for 5 years after a misdemeanor arrest that does not involve moral terpitude(theft, assault, etc.). Felonies are for 10 years except moral terpitude and family violence or gun crimes which are permanant disqualifiers. And by the way, arrests are what they look at usually and not the results. Good Luck, Jim > >Reply-To: texasems-l >To: texasems-l >Subject: Re: Question for the masses >Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 13:18:45 -0700 (PDT) > >Check out this website www.tcleose.state.tx.us There are certain classes >and offenses that would negatively affect him becoming a Texas Police >officer. But because he was a minor, he should be eligible for licensing in >Texas. Always include the details of the arrest in the application, because >in some areas; Deferred Adjudication is still considered a guilty state, >despite the fact you served your probation successfully and case was >dismissed. > >lnmolino@... wrote: > OK hypothetical situation, > >20 year old wants to take a test to be able to get hired as a 9-1-1 >dispatcher for County in Texas. When he was 16 he had a minor brush with >the law. he >was charged with criminal trespass and pled no contest with deferred >adjudication. He has been told post his successful probation (by his Juv. >Probation >officer) nothing shows on his record other than the arrest. > >He is no told he is ineligible for public safety employment. > >Sound right? > >Comments on and or off list welcomed on this. > >Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET >FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI >Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant > >LNMolino@... > > (Cell Phone) > (Home Phone) > (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) > (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) > > " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " > > " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds >discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) > >The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and >the >author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or >organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with >unless I >specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only >for its >stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials >retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by >the >original author. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 Just to clear something up, ARREST records are not sealed. the guilty/not guilty and punishments are sealed. Most places check Arrest records and don't care about the outcome. Convictions are also cleared form your records as time passes. Felonies usually stay present for 10 years unless they involve things like domestic violence, moral crimes like sexual assault, murder and theft. Juvenile criminal records are sealed when they turn 18 but arrest records are permanent and only show that one was arrested. Even if you are not charged with a crime your record will show an arrest. In that case you have to get an attorney to file through the clerk to get it expunged or removed from your record. In this case they have to show good cause as to why it needs to be removed such as no charges filed etc. Jim >From: wegandy1938@... >Reply-To: texasems-l >To: RescueGirl96@..., texasems-l >Subject: Re: Question for the masses >Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:44:29 EDT > >Meris is right. It should be sealed, but in my answer I was assuming that >the kitty cat was out of the bag. If they're denying him employment, then >they must know it somehow. That could have been through a background >check. >If they sent an investigator to talk to the neighbors, and they asked the >neighbors if he had ever been in trouble, and the neighbors said yes and >described >the trouble, then whether or not the record is discoverable is moot. > >Of course, if he has substantial resources, he can hire a lawyer and pursue >the matter through the courts. But if he had that kind of money, why the >heck >is he trying to get a job as a dispatcher? > >GG > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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