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I love my dad, I really do. Even though he is a dishrag and sad sack. He was

there to protect me sometimes, at other times not. I believe he is brainwashed

and immature. He has intervened at times to try to mediate truces--even if his

mediation was misguided, ill-advised and unappreciated. I guess I give him the

benefit of the doubt because he hasn't been overtly abusive, like nada is. He

tells me he loves me, misses me, and is physically demonstrative (hugs, reaching

out to hold hands), but he won't see the horrific in nada, and he won't openly

cross her. If she cut me off completely tomorrow, he would not go against her.

He will not secretly keep in contact with me, as that is 'against' her.

The FOG comes into play because tomorrow is his birthday, followed by next

Sunday being Father's Day. I am LC with them (1x monthly) and Dad keeps hoping I

will make everything go back to what it once was (me enmeshed--daily

communication--not a chance).

I have been making myself physically ill trying to figure out how much contact I

can handle and wondering what emotional price I will have to pay. Denial and

avoidance can only hide the truth for so long--my third trip to the toilet this

morning convinced me I am, again, a physical wreck over this.

If it was just him, we could have a pleasant meeting over dinner. But because

nada is involved it adds all kinds of pits and traps to what should be a nice

get together.

And here I am, struggling to figure out how to have a meaningful relationship

with my father under these conditions. A no win situation. How do I ever get to

letting go and acceptance?

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I wish I had a good and upbeat answer for you, echobabe, but all I can offer is

that it takes as long as it takes. Its like asking, " How long does mourning and

grief last? " It just takes as long as it takes, for *you*.

But one way to help you go through the process of letting go and accepting that

this is the way things are, is to fill your life with positive people and

positive activities. Go out into the world and do good things for others and

for yourself. Make your time here on earth count, as it were, instead of

staying in a state of mourning and grief, make yourself do positive, worthwhile

things.

I wish each of us had a magic wand that could change reality and erase all our

hurts, but, we don't. All we can do is go forward, one step at a time, one day

at a time, and make healthy, positive choices for ourselves.

-Annie

>

> I love my dad, I really do. Even though he is a dishrag and sad sack. He was

there to protect me sometimes, at other times not. I believe he is brainwashed

and immature. He has intervened at times to try to mediate truces--even if his

mediation was misguided, ill-advised and unappreciated. I guess I give him the

benefit of the doubt because he hasn't been overtly abusive, like nada is. He

tells me he loves me, misses me, and is physically demonstrative (hugs, reaching

out to hold hands), but he won't see the horrific in nada, and he won't openly

cross her. If she cut me off completely tomorrow, he would not go against her.

He will not secretly keep in contact with me, as that is 'against' her.

>

> The FOG comes into play because tomorrow is his birthday, followed by next

Sunday being Father's Day. I am LC with them (1x monthly) and Dad keeps hoping I

will make everything go back to what it once was (me enmeshed--daily

communication--not a chance).

>

> I have been making myself physically ill trying to figure out how much contact

I can handle and wondering what emotional price I will have to pay. Denial and

avoidance can only hide the truth for so long--my third trip to the toilet this

morning convinced me I am, again, a physical wreck over this.

>

> If it was just him, we could have a pleasant meeting over dinner. But because

nada is involved it adds all kinds of pits and traps to what should be a nice

get together.

>

> And here I am, struggling to figure out how to have a meaningful relationship

with my father under these conditions. A no win situation. How do I ever get to

letting go and acceptance?

>

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hugs...that is a really tough situation to be in.

I relate because I am stunned to be watching my brother repeat the exact same

behavior my mother did with me. it's unnerving. he is in denial about his

witch-queen bpd wife, and she is pathologizing one of their children, and he is

not defending the child and being an advocate for the child in the way that he

should. he seems to believe her lies about the child although he knows, has to

know, that she is a pathological liar.

it is stunning to me the deathgrip he has on his denial. he seems absolutely

unable to see what I and the rest of the household can see. it's so weird to

watch, I want to slap the bejesus out of him sometimes.

of all of us I never thought it would be him that would mimic my mother...she is

a waif bpd at this point I am concluding.

I don't have any answers I just think it's important to separate what are your

decisions in this vs. what are his decisions. because it does seem like although

he is a dishrag he is definitely making decisions about what he will and won't

do. It's hard to accept, that he is definitely choosing. I wish that I could

have accepted this about my mother 20 years ago, because I saw her as the

'better' of the two of my crazy parents. I have been betrayed enough by her to

know at this point it is not true. But she is making the same choices about me

that she made when I was 8, 18, 28, etc. She has not veered off her chosen

course yet. I don't think she ever will. I have wasted so much time, only to be

here at 42 finding out she recently stabbed me in the back horribly. Worse than

ever, and I wish I had never made any investment of time in this relationship

past leaving at home at 18. It was ALL futile and wasted energy.

to be crude too, I think the sexual bond rules these sick pairs as well and is

kind of an unbreakable glue. my dad swears up and down that that is the

component that makes my brother excuse anything my sister in law does. we talk

about it, the situation with SIL, and he says, things like 'trust me, he's

happy, and he's not going to change a thing about this as long as he's this

happy with what he's getting or whatever'. I know that is gross, but I have to

admit it makes sense because nothing else does.

>

> I love my dad, I really do. Even though he is a dishrag and sad sack. He was

there to protect me sometimes, at other times not. I believe he is brainwashed

and immature. He has intervened at times to try to mediate truces--even if his

mediation was misguided, ill-advised and unappreciated. I guess I give him the

benefit of the doubt because he hasn't been overtly abusive, like nada is. He

tells me he loves me, misses me, and is physically demonstrative (hugs, reaching

out to hold hands), but he won't see the horrific in nada, and he won't openly

cross her. If she cut me off completely tomorrow, he would not go against her.

He will not secretly keep in contact with me, as that is 'against' her.

>

> The FOG comes into play because tomorrow is his birthday, followed by next

Sunday being Father's Day. I am LC with them (1x monthly) and Dad keeps hoping I

will make everything go back to what it once was (me enmeshed--daily

communication--not a chance).

>

> I have been making myself physically ill trying to figure out how much contact

I can handle and wondering what emotional price I will have to pay. Denial and

avoidance can only hide the truth for so long--my third trip to the toilet this

morning convinced me I am, again, a physical wreck over this.

>

> If it was just him, we could have a pleasant meeting over dinner. But because

nada is involved it adds all kinds of pits and traps to what should be a nice

get together.

>

> And here I am, struggling to figure out how to have a meaningful relationship

with my father under these conditions. A no win situation. How do I ever get to

letting go and acceptance?

>

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I think you are right in that sex cements the original bond. Even years later,

when sex is no longer part of the relationship the bond continues.

Some wise person in a self help book years ago stated that we either marry our

parent or become our parent. I have seen this dynamic played out over and over.

Your brother is playing out your mother's role. My nephew played enabler to a

psycho in his failed marriage. My father plays enabler, just like his mother did

with a rager. My sister is married to a manipulator/emotional abuser with issues

reminiscent to my nada--he may be BPD, certainly is NPD.

It is hard to watch these patterns play out in those we love.

For myself, I married a man with intimacy issues (he abandoned through binge

drinking/sexual addiction). We've had lots of therapy, and while he no longer

acts out in those ways, he still finds ways to avoid intimacy. With all my

screwed up KO coping mechanisms (hiding, withdrawal) it isn't hard for him to

do.

> >

> > I love my dad, I really do. Even though he is a dishrag and sad sack. He was

there to protect me sometimes, at other times not. I believe he is brainwashed

and immature. He has intervened at times to try to mediate truces--even if his

mediation was misguided, ill-advised and unappreciated. I guess I give him the

benefit of the doubt because he hasn't been overtly abusive, like nada is. He

tells me he loves me, misses me, and is physically demonstrative (hugs, reaching

out to hold hands), but he won't see the horrific in nada, and he won't openly

cross her. If she cut me off completely tomorrow, he would not go against her.

He will not secretly keep in contact with me, as that is 'against' her.

> >

> > The FOG comes into play because tomorrow is his birthday, followed by next

Sunday being Father's Day. I am LC with them (1x monthly) and Dad keeps hoping I

will make everything go back to what it once was (me enmeshed--daily

communication--not a chance).

> >

> > I have been making myself physically ill trying to figure out how much

contact I can handle and wondering what emotional price I will have to pay.

Denial and avoidance can only hide the truth for so long--my third trip to the

toilet this morning convinced me I am, again, a physical wreck over this.

> >

> > If it was just him, we could have a pleasant meeting over dinner. But

because nada is involved it adds all kinds of pits and traps to what should be a

nice get together.

> >

> > And here I am, struggling to figure out how to have a meaningful

relationship with my father under these conditions. A no win situation. How do I

ever get to letting go and acceptance?

> >

>

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When I reread this, a realization slapped me in the head about where my thinking

here is wrong.

I am still taking 100% of the blame for this broken relationship. Dad is at

least 50% responsible in our relationship. So why do I feel it is solely up to

me to fix it?

When I figured out mom is BPD, I only shared this with Sis and our kids. I did

not tell Dad. I get the feeling that revealing this information to him would not

be appreciated--since he likes his bliss in ignorance. He knows his moves with

her, and after 50 years seems perfectly comfortable in being the whipping boy.

He does passive aggressive stuff to get even with her, including turning off his

hearing aids (he's stone deaf without them).

God help me, I am so sick of dysfunction, my own included. Now I am leaving to

go work for my NPD boss.

Thanks guys, for the wisdom and the listening.

>

> I love my dad, I really do. Even though he is a dishrag and sad sack. He was

there to protect me sometimes, at other times not. I believe he is brainwashed

and immature. He has intervened at times to try to mediate truces--even if his

mediation was misguided, ill-advised and unappreciated. I guess I give him the

benefit of the doubt because he hasn't been overtly abusive, like nada is. He

tells me he loves me, misses me, and is physically demonstrative (hugs, reaching

out to hold hands), but he won't see the horrific in nada, and he won't openly

cross her. If she cut me off completely tomorrow, he would not go against her.

He will not secretly keep in contact with me, as that is 'against' her.

>

> The FOG comes into play because tomorrow is his birthday, followed by next

Sunday being Father's Day. I am LC with them (1x monthly) and Dad keeps hoping I

will make everything go back to what it once was (me enmeshed--daily

communication--not a chance).

>

> I have been making myself physically ill trying to figure out how much contact

I can handle and wondering what emotional price I will have to pay. Denial and

avoidance can only hide the truth for so long--my third trip to the toilet this

morning convinced me I am, again, a physical wreck over this.

>

> If it was just him, we could have a pleasant meeting over dinner. But because

nada is involved it adds all kinds of pits and traps to what should be a nice

get together.

>

> And here I am, struggling to figure out how to have a meaningful relationship

with my father under these conditions. A no win situation. How do I ever get to

letting go and acceptance?

>

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Guest guest

When you were little, your fada should have shouldered 100% of the

responsibility for the quality of his relationship with you, because he had all

the power and control. Now that you are an adult, and on an equal footing with

your father, yes, its more of a 50-50 proposition RE responsibility for the

quality of the relationship between the two of you.

It was never, ever 100% your responsibility, but that's one of the ways our pd

parents screw with our minds: making us believe that we ARE fully responsible

for things they, themselves, should be responsible for.

Its so horribly easy to mind-f**k a little child, who is born full of

unconditional love and abject, innocent trust for her parents.

-Annie

> >

> > I love my dad, I really do. Even though he is a dishrag and sad sack. He was

there to protect me sometimes, at other times not. I believe he is brainwashed

and immature. He has intervened at times to try to mediate truces--even if his

mediation was misguided, ill-advised and unappreciated. I guess I give him the

benefit of the doubt because he hasn't been overtly abusive, like nada is. He

tells me he loves me, misses me, and is physically demonstrative (hugs, reaching

out to hold hands), but he won't see the horrific in nada, and he won't openly

cross her. If she cut me off completely tomorrow, he would not go against her.

He will not secretly keep in contact with me, as that is 'against' her.

> >

> > The FOG comes into play because tomorrow is his birthday, followed by next

Sunday being Father's Day. I am LC with them (1x monthly) and Dad keeps hoping I

will make everything go back to what it once was (me enmeshed--daily

communication--not a chance).

> >

> > I have been making myself physically ill trying to figure out how much

contact I can handle and wondering what emotional price I will have to pay.

Denial and avoidance can only hide the truth for so long--my third trip to the

toilet this morning convinced me I am, again, a physical wreck over this.

> >

> > If it was just him, we could have a pleasant meeting over dinner. But

because nada is involved it adds all kinds of pits and traps to what should be a

nice get together.

> >

> > And here I am, struggling to figure out how to have a meaningful

relationship with my father under these conditions. A no win situation. How do I

ever get to letting go and acceptance?

> >

>

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