Re: Funny what info just pops out

[Guest guest]

Jeez!! Forreal! How crazy that there's your classic BP right infront of you and

she has no idea. I hear all the time about people who were abused by parents as

children go on to marry someone who embodies that abusive parent. I guess your

dad is one of those cases! Perhaps the person abused just cannot see that

twisted, toxic relationships aren't normal. How did you father react to your

explanation of BPD? Did he agree that his father had it?

It's amazing how mental illness was treated 50 years ago compared to today. It

blows my mind how it often went untreated and ignored (I suppose this is still

true for BP today!!). It was taboo... ... I feel sorry for your grandfather.

It's sad that his doctor wouldn't help him.

Mental illness surges through my nada's side. I am pretty positive there is a

terrible wasteland of BPs in my nada's history. She herself said her maternal

grandmother died in a mental institution. Then my grandnada went on to abuse my

nada and there's the cycle. Ughhh.

Best,

- Cvidz

>

> Met Dad & nada for breakfast this morning. Dad started talking about his dad,

who died when I was 17. We rarely saw his parents because they lived 2000 miles

away. I had heard over time that grandpa was a rager, but was never around him

enough to see this.

>

> Dad discussed his dad's episodes-- " He would fly into a complete rage, leaving

himself. " I asked for elaboration. " He would go completely berserk, rip the

offender to pieces, and 5 minutes later not remember being angry or what he

said. " He also would get even with people by laying verbal traps to trip people

up in conversation, then flay them to get even.

>

> I know he had trouble keeping a job early in life and finding a career niche.

Later in life he fell into deep " poor me " depression, and eventually willed

himself to death.

>

> At one point my grandfather went in to a psychiatrist and explained he

couldn't remember anger episodes that upset everyone else--probably in 50's. The

Dr. told him not to worry, since he was concerned it meant he wasn't crazy

(thank God psychology research has improved). Gramps KNEW there was something

wrong; it saddens me no help was available. His coping mechanism when he felt

rage coming on was to isolate himself, spend his rage alone, and then return.

>

> I informed Dad that his father fit classic BPD pattern, and explained it in

detail. I did not explain to him that he 'married' his father--my nada--his wife

of 51 years. No way. If he can't see the pattern (the rages, the lack of

accountability, the miserable, negative victim) who am I to point it out? She

listened quietly to my recitation, probably wondering why I knew so much about

BPD.

>

> So instead I told nada about NPD (her mother) and sent her the Harpy's child

link. They can use the info, or ignore it, however they wish.

>

> I was blown away to finally make this connection--and it was almost bizarre to

be discussing BPD across the table with nada, my bordeline poster child! What a

HOOT!

>

[Guest guest]

I bet that did feel very bizarre, even surreal, to be discussing bpd and npd in

a conversational, rational, calm way with your nada. Nada obviously did not

feel that the behaviors you were describing in any way related to herself, so

she was able to calmly listen without feeling attacked. Yep, that's surreal.

It is interesting that apparently in some cases, such as with your grandfather

and with my nada, they become so over-the-top enraged that they " go away " or

" leave himself/herself. " They dissociate, and don't remember the rage

afterward.

I'm betting that is the same thing as temporary insanity, and is a true break

with reality.

I think that's why my nada's rages were so terrifying to me as a child: my own

mother was acting like *she didn't know me* when she'd rage like that and I must

have sensed on some level that she might just kill me in her rage without even

realizing it. She only got like that: the ballistic, volcanic rage, when we

were alone, just me or me and Sister alone with her, so there was no way for me

to even process the trauma. There was no other adult present to validate my

experiences, no other adult present who could have stopped it.

Your post makes me wonder if the many times I remember feeling rejected by nada,

the times when she pushed me away and did NOT want me near her, when she would

literally force me to go outside and play in the yard even if it was too hot or

too cold or raining, I wonder if if she did that when she sensed a rage coming

on and she needed to be alone. I suppose its possible. (But then, I ask myself

why the hell didn't *she* go out and walk in the rain or the oven-like heat and

work off her rage in activity, then? I guess I'll never know.)

-Annie

>

> Met Dad & nada for breakfast this morning. Dad started talking about his dad,

who died when I was 17. We rarely saw his parents because they lived 2000 miles

away. I had heard over time that grandpa was a rager, but was never around him

enough to see this.

>

> Dad discussed his dad's episodes-- " He would fly into a complete rage, leaving

himself. " I asked for elaboration. " He would go completely berserk, rip the

offender to pieces, and 5 minutes later not remember being angry or what he

said. " He also would get even with people by laying verbal traps to trip people

up in conversation, then flay them to get even.

>

> I know he had trouble keeping a job early in life and finding a career niche.

Later in life he fell into deep " poor me " depression, and eventually willed

himself to death.

>

> At one point my grandfather went in to a psychiatrist and explained he

couldn't remember anger episodes that upset everyone else--probably in 50's. The

Dr. told him not to worry, since he was concerned it meant he wasn't crazy

(thank God psychology research has improved). Gramps KNEW there was something

wrong; it saddens me no help was available. His coping mechanism when he felt

rage coming on was to isolate himself, spend his rage alone, and then return.

>

> I informed Dad that his father fit classic BPD pattern, and explained it in

detail. I did not explain to him that he 'married' his father--my nada--his wife

of 51 years. No way. If he can't see the pattern (the rages, the lack of

accountability, the miserable, negative victim) who am I to point it out? She

listened quietly to my recitation, probably wondering why I knew so much about

BPD.

>

> So instead I told nada about NPD (her mother) and sent her the Harpy's child

link. They can use the info, or ignore it, however they wish.

>

> I was blown away to finally make this connection--and it was almost bizarre to

be discussing BPD across the table with nada, my bordeline poster child! What a

HOOT!

>

[Guest guest]

Dad was quite interested, he is always interested in understanding where he

comes from. I seriously doubt he will make the connection to his marriage. Or,

if he does, he will never admit it while nada is alive.

>

How did you father react to your explanation of BPD? Did he agree that his

father had it?

>

[Guest guest]

Nada Rule #142: Nada must be comfortable (dry, warm, etc.)!

But seriously, I think I understand the comfort thing better after reading and

taking all the Schema surveys, scoring them, and then using those finding to

process why I act the way I do (how I avoid/compensate/react to things and how

they tie in in with my childhood parenting). I think someone mentioned it here?

http://www.schematherapy.com

You see, I can't sleep with noise (music, tv) or light. Physical comfort is a

big deal for me. Being forced to wear wet/damp clothes can bring me to

tears--unless I am feeling really, really safe. I really am a " Princess and the

Pea " type. Other people can thrive in less comfort: for me it is almost

impossible. I figured out this is a soothing method for me to compensate for

feeling emotionally deprived. If I am feeling triggered at all, my physical

environment can either sink me or save me.

So I'm guessing most nadas make sure they don't suffer physically as a way of

avoiding this too ( & make their kids suffer instead).

(Yes, I know, I just compared something in myself to nada--but I am OK with it

because I finally understand where this comes from--her withholding

comfort/love/nurturing when I was a child!)

>

> But then, I ask myself why the hell didn't *she* go out and walk in the rain

or the oven-like heat and work off her rage in activity, then? I guess I'll

never know.)

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting insight. Yes, my nada is always about her own comfort. Sister and

I had to learn to be stoic, and not complain if we were too hot, too cold,

hungry, thirsty, feeling sick, whatever. We were basically told what we felt,

and it was (...wait for it!...) exactly what nada was feeling. If she was cold,

we were told that we were cold also. If she wasn't hungry yet, then we were not

hungry yet either.

When I was still in contact with her, she would get bent out of shape if I

didn't agree with her about the temperature. I would have to agree with her

that it was too hot, or too cool, or whatever. It wasn't OK with her if she had

on a sweater or a jacket and I didn't.

Like it was very, very important that we matched. It could cause a very

unpleasant blow up or a real pout from her, if you can believe it. (I can

hardly believe it after all this time away from her, it seems like a fading

nightmare, now.)

On a side note: This reminds me that I had to make a stand when she insisted

that we dress exactly alike. I *hated* that so it was a boundary I established

early on (before I even knew what bpd was or what boundaries were) but she

never gave up trying to cross it.

I could feel sorry for her if she wasn't so... just plain old mean.

Controlling, bullying, domineering, and mean. Why the hell did she feel the

need to freaking attack me if I simply was enjoying the temperature as is,

instead of parroting her that it was too cold or too warm or whatever? I wanted

to scream, " Just put on a goddam sweater or turn on the air conditioner if

you're uncomfortable, and leave me alone! " I never did, I was too well trained

and avoided confronting her whenever possible. But no, she couldn't just leave

me alone, she felt the need to *force* me to align myself with her perceptions,

or attack me.

So, anyway, I can get it that your comfort level is important to you and serves

as a self-soothing mechanism.

Thanks for sharing that insight with me, it could be one of the reasons my nada

was always so irritable; she was/is rarely perfectly comfortable.

-Annie

> >

> > But then, I ask myself why the hell didn't *she* go out and walk in the rain

or the oven-like heat and work off her rage in activity, then? I guess I'll

never know.)

> >

> > -Annie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Oh--This brings up a memory from the trip to hell and back! I find airplane

cabins stuffy and I was getting hot flashes regularly last year, so I planned to

wear shorts on the plane and take a jacket if I got too cold.

Nada got in a FIGHT with me getting ready to leave for the airport, SCREAMING at

me that I was going to freeze, I was going to be " sorry " and miserable (I

already miserable anticipating the week with her). Her voice was shrill even at

4am, yelling at me like I was an unreasonable child.

Yuck. And yes, I was very comfortable on the flight, thank you. But arguing with

the bitch landed me a migraine by the evening :-(

>

> she would get bent out of shape if I didn't agree with her about the

temperature. I would have to agree with her that it was too hot, or too cool,

or whatever. It wasn't OK with her if she had on a sweater or a jacket and I

didn't.

[Guest guest]

Oh, my oh my... wild. It's so crazy that they can only see their children as

extensions of themself and not separate individuals with separate tastes and

wants and desires and needs.

- Cvidz

> >

> > she would get bent out of shape if I didn't agree with her about the

temperature. I would have to agree with her that it was too hot, or too cool,

or whatever. It wasn't OK with her if she had on a sweater or a jacket and I

didn't.

>

[Guest guest]

that's really devastating to read about, that someone blacks out in fits of

rage, and goes to get help, and is told to 'not worry about it'.

I am so sorry for this, it really breaks my heart, that these cycles, keep

repeating, over and over. I think it would hearten me to know that somewhere

along the way, someone at least reached out and tried to get help. Hugs.

>

> Met Dad & nada for breakfast this morning. Dad started talking about his dad,

who died when I was 17. We rarely saw his parents because they lived 2000 miles

away. I had heard over time that grandpa was a rager, but was never around him

enough to see this.

>

> Dad discussed his dad's episodes-- " He would fly into a complete rage, leaving

himself. " I asked for elaboration. " He would go completely berserk, rip the

offender to pieces, and 5 minutes later not remember being angry or what he

said. " He also would get even with people by laying verbal traps to trip people

up in conversation, then flay them to get even.

>

> I know he had trouble keeping a job early in life and finding a career niche.

Later in life he fell into deep " poor me " depression, and eventually willed

himself to death.

>

> At one point my grandfather went in to a psychiatrist and explained he

couldn't remember anger episodes that upset everyone else--probably in 50's. The

Dr. told him not to worry, since he was concerned it meant he wasn't crazy

(thank God psychology research has improved). Gramps KNEW there was something

wrong; it saddens me no help was available. His coping mechanism when he felt

rage coming on was to isolate himself, spend his rage alone, and then return.

>

> I informed Dad that his father fit classic BPD pattern, and explained it in

detail. I did not explain to him that he 'married' his father--my nada--his wife

of 51 years. No way. If he can't see the pattern (the rages, the lack of

accountability, the miserable, negative victim) who am I to point it out? She

listened quietly to my recitation, probably wondering why I knew so much about

BPD.

>

> So instead I told nada about NPD (her mother) and sent her the Harpy's child

link. They can use the info, or ignore it, however they wish.

>

> I was blown away to finally make this connection--and it was almost bizarre to

be discussing BPD across the table with nada, my bordeline poster child! What a

HOOT!

>

[Guest guest]

I'm back after a short holiday with Sister, who informed me that nada is now

convinced that *I* have been diagnosed BPD because I am so knowledgeable about

the disorder.

Keep twisting, Mom. Rearrange it all in your sick-ass head so that you can live

with yourself and blame it all on me.

I am eternally tired of being a KO. The spin her mind puts on our lives just

makes me want to vomit.

The only bright part is that maybe, if she thinks *I* am mentally unstable, she

will be fearful enough to not engage with me. How funny if she thinks I am so

damaged that it might *affect* her.

>

> Met Dad & nada for breakfast this morning. . . . . his father fit classic BPD

pattern, which I explained to him in detail. I did not explain to him that he

'married' his father--my nada--his wife of 51 years. No way. If he can't see the

pattern (the rages, the lack of accountability, the miserable, negative victim)

who am I to point it out? She listened quietly to my recitation, probably

wondering why I knew so much about BPD.

>

> I was blown away to finally make this connection--and it was almost bizarre to

be discussing BPD across the table with nada, my bordeline poster child! What a

HOOT!

>

[Guest guest]

Oh good lord.

Bless your heart...it's typical isn't it...I think you need a GROUP hug on this

one.

I have been dealing with similar emotions tonight. I am very, very slow on the

uptake when it comes to subtext and machiavellian stuff that my family does.

it's all done on the covert level, they are masters of the DL, or down-low...and

I am *always* out of the loop an the last to know what machinations have been

going on.

well tonight it hit me they have been closing ranks around me. Instead of

standing up like moral, ethical, NORMAL human beings would do and dealing with

the lunatic known as my sister in law that has moved into their home, refusing

to clean, or do much of anything, except feed her children so they don't

die...instead of setting boundaries and limits and or demanding my brother who

makes 50 grand a year hire a maid, instead of putting their foot down about the

neglect, instead of all of that...

they have brought her into the fold. they are this sick. our last confrontation,

when I dared to inform her that despite her intentions to the contrary which she

announced to me as if it was perfectly normal and what everyone on earth does,

to potty train children by just letting them run around in cloth underwear so

they can 'feel' the pee or poop, meaning letting them run around and pee/poop

through their underwear onto my parents furniture, which she of course is not

going to clean because, as we all know, she 'doesn't clean', ever...

anyway I'm not making sense but she completely went psycho on me for telling her

that wasn't going to fly and calling her a hoarder and telling her her behaviors

around cleaning were 'so far out of the parameters of anything remotely

resembling normal that it was indefensible'...etc...things apparently she's

never heard before, unbelievably..but anyway that got me called a lunatic and

then she informed me my mother is afraid of me etc, etc.

but anyhow...I have been slowly putting the pieces together enough to realize

that, holy catfish, batman, she's one of them now. my mother has intimated and

my father has outright stated to her, apparently, that they think I am crazy,

and they have been dogging me out to her behind my back, meanwhile crying on MY

shoulder for a year about her insanity.

I understand the rage and the frustration, I can hear it in your writing, I wish

I could hug you because I have been there, am there, it just never fails.

(thanks be to god for my therapist who has told me explicitly, in no uncertain

terms, " YOU are NOT the crazy person in your family. " )

but like I said, it takes me a longgggggggggg time to catch on to their little

hijinks, and it just kind of sunk in tonight, what they have been up to. I

sometimes hate them and wish I could just throw them out like an old banana

peel.

> >

> > Met Dad & nada for breakfast this morning. . . . . his father fit classic

BPD pattern, which I explained to him in detail. I did not explain to him that

he 'married' his father--my nada--his wife of 51 years. No way. If he can't see

the pattern (the rages, the lack of accountability, the miserable, negative

victim) who am I to point it out? She listened quietly to my recitation,

probably wondering why I knew so much about BPD.

> >

> > I was blown away to finally make this connection--and it was almost bizarre

to be discussing BPD across the table with nada, my bordeline poster child! What

a HOOT!

> >

>