Being Kicked Down and Setting Boundaries

[Guest guest]

I received a morning phone call from my nada this morning and although I tried I

still answered it. She started in about how she gave everything to my sister

and I and we threw her to the curb and I have no idea what she is talking about,

considering she is the one that exploded on us. I was dumbfounded but continued

to listen to her cries and her pity pot story. Then her tears turned to anger

and she started in on me about how much of piece of crap I am, as a daughter and

a mother. She is the grandmother of my son but I know for my sanity I need to

establish some boundaries..does anyone have any advice on how to do this?

[Guest guest]

Gee, my nada did the same thing to me. Ignore any more phone calls, that's

what I'm doing and I find that in a week or two she'll come back around like

nothing happened because she doesn't want to be left out. When she calls and

behaves then I invite her to come over or do something with my son and I. When

she's acting like this (and I posted Tues night because she had me in tears

again) I go no contact. Luckily I have a private line at work and just let it

all go to voice mail. Its like retraining a child or misbehaving animal, they

only get rewarded when they behave in a manner acceptable to you.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2011 8:25 AM

Subject: Being Kicked Down and Setting Boundaries

Â

I received a morning phone call from my nada this morning and although I tried I

still answered it. She started in about how she gave everything to my sister

and I and we threw her to the curb and I have no idea what she is talking about,

considering she is the one that exploded on us. I was dumbfounded but continued

to listen to her cries and her pity pot story. Then her tears turned to anger

and she started in on me about how much of piece of crap I am, as a daughter and

a mother. She is the grandmother of my son but I know for my sanity I need to

establish some boundaries..does anyone have any advice on how to do this?

[Guest guest]

Hi Wenzley.

I hope you can take comfort in the knowledge that you are not alone; you are

describing behaviors that many of us here have experienced from our own bpd

mothers (or " nadas " ).

Bpd is a genuine and sometimes severe mental illness. You didn't cause your

mother to have this mental illness, and you can't cure her. The behaviors

you've described: the projecting, the blaming, the re-writing history, the

manipulativeness, the switching from tears to rage and back again: all those are

pretty common behaviors for those with bpd.

You have the right to protect yourself and your spouse and children from

harmful, abusive behaviors even if the person mistreating you is your own

mother. She does not have the right to harm you just because she gave birth to

you.

My suggestion is that knowledge is power, and empowering. I think you will find

a great deal of good advice and suggestions here and by reading the excellent

books that are available now about managing a relationship with someone with

bpd.

The bottom line is that you have three options:

You can choose to go Low Contact with strict Boundaries in place and enforce

boundary violations with Consequences.

You can choose to go No Contact, either temporarily or permanently.

You can choose to just let things be, and continue to put up with and even

enable your pd mother to abuse you and your family.

There is a reading list of great books at the home page of this site. My

favorite to recommend is " Understanding The Borderline Mother. " It packs a

whallop.

If you take anything away from my post, I hope its the beginning of

understanding that you should feel NO guilt over needing to set up reasonable,

adult boundaries with your nada, or even go No Contact with her if she is being

extremely abusive or dangerous to you. Your mother's feelings are NOT your

responsibility. You were not put on this earth to be her emotional punching

bag, or to be her mother/rescuer/enabler. Her feelings are her own

responsibility to carry, not yours. The guilt or responsibility you may be

experiencing RE this, are misplaced and inappropriate.

So, welcome to the Group. I hope you will find it as helpful and validating an

experience as I have.

-Annie

>

> I received a morning phone call from my nada this morning and although I tried

I still answered it. She started in about how she gave everything to my sister

and I and we threw her to the curb and I have no idea what she is talking about,

considering she is the one that exploded on us. I was dumbfounded but continued

to listen to her cries and her pity pot story. Then her tears turned to anger

and she started in on me about how much of piece of crap I am, as a daughter and

a mother. She is the grandmother of my son but I know for my sanity I need to

establish some boundaries..does anyone have any advice on how to do this?

>

[Guest guest]

> She is the grandmother of my son but I know for my sanity I need to establish

some boundaries..does anyone have any advice on how to do this?

>

I would suggest hanging up the phone as soon as she starts calling you names,

for starters.

You do not have to talk with her about anything that makes you uncomfortable. " I

don't want to discuss that. " You can suggest she talk to a professional if she's

miserable. " If you're not happy with your relationships, you might consider

talking with a therapist about it. I'm not able to help you. " Change the

subject, or end the call.

Guess what? She's going to hate it. But at least you don't have to sit there and

take the beating any more.

Do you have a therapist? It can be a great resource to learn and practice

boundary setting. I highly recommend finding one if you don't have one already.

Sveta

[Guest guest]

Totally agree with this. When she starts interuppt her and say I'm not listening

to this and if you continue I'm hanging up. Then unless she immediately

changes gears do it. And don't answer it unless you're 100% sure its not her.

I've walked out of restaurants, etc..... Really sucks to be her when I'm driving

Â

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2011 1:55 PM

Subject: Re: Being Kicked Down and Setting Boundaries

Â

> She is the grandmother of my son but I know for my sanity I need to establish

some boundaries..does anyone have any advice on how to do this?

>

I would suggest hanging up the phone as soon as she starts calling you names,

for starters.

You do not have to talk with her about anything that makes you uncomfortable. " I

don't want to discuss that. " You can suggest she talk to a professional if she's

miserable. " If you're not happy with your relationships, you might consider

talking with a therapist about it. I'm not able to help you. " Change the

subject, or end the call.

Guess what? She's going to hate it. But at least you don't have to sit there and

take the beating any more.

Do you have a therapist? It can be a great resource to learn and practice

boundary setting. I highly recommend finding one if you don't have one already.

Sveta

[Guest guest]

Hi Wenzley,

I highly recommend the book " Stop Walking on Eggshells " . That book has taught me

so much on setting boundaries. It truly changed my life.

>

> I received a morning phone call from my nada this morning and although I tried

I still answered it. She started in about how she gave everything to my sister

and I and we threw her to the curb and I have no idea what she is talking about,

considering she is the one that exploded on us. I was dumbfounded but continued

to listen to her cries and her pity pot story. Then her tears turned to anger

and she started in on me about how much of piece of crap I am, as a daughter and

a mother. She is the grandmother of my son but I know for my sanity I need to

establish some boundaries..does anyone have any advice on how to do this?

>

[Guest guest]

I can only share with you what my therapist has tried to instill in me. You

choose whether you want to answer the phone because you have the power. If you

answer the phone, the minute the conversation turns negative or critical, you

must interject that you will only listen if the conversation is positive. The

minute the conversation goes south, you must hang up! That is the only power you

have & you must act upon it. It is hard to do & I only speak from experience.

Even after months of therapy & practicing this 1 technique, I stayed on the

phone too long recently & got to hear that I, too, was the sorriest piece of

crap excuse for a daughter. I then hung up, but it was way too late & even my

therapist agreed. But I am 44 years old & trying to unlearn old behaviors & it

will not happen overnight. It is one phone call after another, after another &

sometimes I do not always do it right, but I am working on it. You have also

got to be able to say " I am not discussing that " or " That is none of your

business. " You will get some retaliation at first because they do not like being

no, just like a toddler that you have to tell over & over, stick to your guns.

I am finding that the more I am able to hang up or to not answer nosy questions,

the more confidence I am beginning to have. Two years ago, I would never have

challenged her, but only did all things possible to keep peace. I am trying to

find " me " again, but it is baby steps. I wish we could wave a magic wand & make

it better, but I know that is impossible. Don't listen to the rants - you are

not a piece of crap. Hang up the phone & know that it is ok to do that.

>

> I received a morning phone call from my nada this morning and although I tried

I still answered it. She started in about how she gave everything to my sister

and I and we threw her to the curb and I have no idea what she is talking about,

considering she is the one that exploded on us. I was dumbfounded but continued

to listen to her cries and her pity pot story. Then her tears turned to anger

and she started in on me about how much of piece of crap I am, as a daughter and

a mother. She is the grandmother of my son but I know for my sanity I need to

establish some boundaries..does anyone have any advice on how to do this?

>

[Guest guest]

Could you hang up next time she does this? It's hard to do, but

I'd had to do it. Better than listening to the abuse.

Steph

Being Kicked Down and Setting

Boundaries

I received a morning phone call from my nada this morning and

although I tried I still answered it. She started in about how

she gave everything to my sister and I and we threw her to the

curb and I have no idea what she is talking about, considering

she is the one that exploded on us. I was dumbfounded but

continued to listen to her cries and her pity pot story. Then

her tears turned to anger and she started in on me about how much

of piece of crap I am, as a daughter and a mother. She is the

grandmother of my son but I know for my sanity I need to

establish some boundaries..does anyone have any advice on how to

do this?

------------------------------------

**This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new book

The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder:

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WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe .

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and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find)Yahoo!

Groups Links

[Guest guest]

best advice I ever got from my therapist that I use on more than just the nada.

" Just because the phone rings, doesn't mean you HAVE to answer! If you wait and

call back on YOUR terms, you are more likely to catch her when she doesn't have

her load of sh!t ready to dump in your ear. " I will add to that...never answer

a call from her when you are tired. You aren't at your best and she is primed

and ready to go off. Screw the FOG (Fear obligation guilt) This is YOUR life and

YOU are in control. Take it back!

>

> I received a morning phone call from my nada this morning and although I tried

I still answered it. She started in about how she gave everything to my sister

and I and we threw her to the curb and I have no idea what she is talking about,

considering she is the one that exploded on us. I was dumbfounded but continued

to listen to her cries and her pity pot story. Then her tears turned to anger

and she started in on me about how much of piece of crap I am, as a daughter and

a mother. She is the grandmother of my son but I know for my sanity I need to

establish some boundaries..does anyone have any advice on how to do this?

>

[Guest guest]

I think its in the " Stop Walking On Eggshells " book that a suggested thing to

say when your person with bpd begins verbally attacking you is something like,

" I can hear that you are upset, but I can't talk with you when you are upset.

We can talk again later when you feel calmer. " And its about being

consistent; you have to be firm and consistent each time, not just sometimes,

but each time she launches into verbally attacking you/ raging at you / accusing

you or attempting to manipulate you with hysterics or crying.

If you just silently listen while your nada spews her verbal diarrhea at you,

its the same as telling her that its OK for her to do that to you; that's what

" enabling " is, *allowing* her to continue to be abusive to you.

But when you say the equivalent of " I won't listen to you when you are upset or

angry / its not OK to call me names, make false accusations, yell at me, etc. "

....that is you setting a boundary. If your nada persists, then you follow

through by saying " I am hanging up the phone now, we can talk about this later

when you are calmer " that is you giving a consequence.

That is you setting reasonable adult boundaries with your bpd mom. You're

remaining calm, you are in control, and you are being assertive. Not mean, not

disrespectful, you are simply not allowing her to use you as a toilet to dump

her own bad feelings into. You were not put on this earth to be anyone's

emotional punching bag or anyone's emotional toilet.

Your mother is mentally ill and needs to seek a therapist to help learn to

manage her emotional dysregulation and anxiety and fear and neediness or sense

of entitlement, or whatever combo of toxic personality disordered traits she

has. Its not your responsibility to be your mother's therapist, and in reality,

you can't help her that way. No doctor, surgeon or psychiatrist treats his or

her own family members.

You CAN encourage your mother to seek therapy, and you CAN set up reasonable

boundaries to protect yourself from her when she is emotionally abusive to you.

Those choices are within your power to make and execute.

Best of luck to you. NONE of this is easy. Its very, very difficult for those

of us with mentally ill parents to " take the reins " in our relationship with

them, but as adults we have both the power and the ability to make emotionally

healthy choices for ourselves. Our personality disordered parents can't, and

never could.

-Annie

> >

> > I received a morning phone call from my nada this morning and although I

tried I still answered it. She started in about how she gave everything to my

sister and I and we threw her to the curb and I have no idea what she is talking

about, considering she is the one that exploded on us. I was dumbfounded but

continued to listen to her cries and her pity pot story. Then her tears turned

to anger and she started in on me about how much of piece of crap I am, as a

daughter and a mother. She is the grandmother of my son but I know for my

sanity I need to establish some boundaries..does anyone have any advice on how

to do this?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think we all had our pivotal moment, when we knew we simply could not pretend

to take it anymore. Yours sounds like that phone call was it.

For me, I read a lot about boundaries ( " Boundaries " by Cloud/Townsend and I'm

sure you'll see many others on Amazon, " Stop Walking on Eggshells " by Randi

Kreger) but being here on this board gave me the strength and courage to

actually DO it, to implement the boundaries.

It helps to know others are going through it and care that you did it.

So, we're here for you. Do what you need to do for your healing. You deserve to

be happy.

Fiona

>

> I received a morning phone call from my nada this morning and although I tried

I still answered it. She started in about how she gave everything to my sister

and I and we threw her to the curb and I have no idea what she is talking about,

considering she is the one that exploded on us. I was dumbfounded but continued

to listen to her cries and her pity pot story. Then her tears turned to anger

and she started in on me about how much of piece of crap I am, as a daughter and

a mother. She is the grandmother of my son but I know for my sanity I need to

establish some boundaries..does anyone have any advice on how to do this?

>

[Guest guest]

As I write this, I see that Nada has yet again called me, and left a vm. This

despite the fact that she knows I am at work and that my sister is actually

there, having flown in to surprise her on her 75th birthday. And despite the

fact that I have already called to wish her happy birthday. As has my SO, my

oldest daughter, and probably others. She called me last night upset that she

only had one birthday card!!! I told her perhaps she should wait until her

actual birthday and see what happens........really, whoever said they are like 5

year old kids is absolutely correct. And that's the approach I now take.

I can't go NC, as I have PoA and am the trustee etc since my dad passed away 14

months ago. Baby sis is LC, she lives several states away. Middle sis is NC,

other than rare phone calls. She's pretty much NC with siblings now, too.

Nada has been low functioning for at least the last 20 years. She's now in

assisted living, and thankfully, I have a great caregiving agency on board. We

worked with a psych nurse who had PLENTY of experience with BPD to develop some

firm boundaries. This was after some really bad experiences and her almost

getting evicted. More on that another time. I say a " thank you " to my dad who

made sure there was money to ensure she was taken care of, because I'd likely be

in jail right now if I had the job.

Since Nada's phone is a frequent weapon and she hasn't learned after decades of

abusive phone behavior that pisses people off.....I have come up with a very

effective strategy. Of course, this was after years of abusive behavior, and an

especially horrific period in which my dad was dying, she was in and out of

geropsych unit and nursing home, as dad had been the primary caregiver. During

this phase, she would call me 30x a day, on average. I was dealing with 2

hospitals, medical insurance, paying their bills, checking on the house, oh and

my 98 year old grandmother passed away. And I live 200 miles away. Knee jerk

reaction was to answer her calls, partly we were trying to keep her away from my

dad, he wanted nothing to do with her, and was terminally ill. And I was so

well trained. HOOVERED time and again to answer that phone, go into defensive

mode and try to reason with someone who was clearly psychotic at the time. I

forgot to mention the handfuls of pain meds, muscle relaxants etc she was

taking, which contributed to geropsych stays. NO community based therapist or

treating psychiatrist, you know she just couldn't find one she liked. Big time

doctor shopping. This went on for months until I realized then when my phone

rang, I could feel panic coming on, either it was the hospital regarding my dad,

or it was cray-cray nada calling with hallucinations, berating me etc.

I have a smart phone. DUH! Different ring tones now so I know who it is. Set

it so Nada's calls go DIRECTLY to voice mail. It doesn't even ring. She

leaves a message, and I choose when to listen to it. Or not. She will still

call 30x a day sometimes. So I let her fill up the voice mail, and don't delete

it until I feel like it. This has helped me immensely. No more being caught

off guard with whacky accusations. No more real time " this is goodbye, I'm

ending it all " calls. She threatens at least once a week, but since her meds

are not in her control, it's not an issue. And those calls are often followed

by another call 15 minutes later, " When you order my supplies from Safeway, can

you get me cinnamon rolls, too? " (Yes, another high tech solution: she gives me

her grocery list about every 10 days, i order online and it's delivered.)

So many posts I've read here in the last month could have been written by me.

>

> Gee, my nada did the same thing to me. Ignore any more phone calls, that's

what I'm doing and I find that in a week or two she'll come back around like

nothing happened because she doesn't want to be left out. When she calls and

behaves then I invite her to come over or do something with my son and I. When

she's acting like this (and I posted Tues night because she had me in tears

again) I go no contact. Luckily I have a private line at work and just let it

all go to voice mail. Its like retraining a child or misbehaving animal, they

only get rewarded when they behave in a manner acceptable to you.

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2011 8:25 AM

> Subject: Being Kicked Down and Setting Boundaries

>

>

>

> Â

>

> I received a morning phone call from my nada this morning and although I tried

I still answered it. She started in about how she gave everything to my sister

and I and we threw her to the curb and I have no idea what she is talking about,

considering she is the one that exploded on us. I was dumbfounded but continued

to listen to her cries and her pity pot story. Then her tears turned to anger

and she started in on me about how much of piece of crap I am, as a daughter and

a mother. She is the grandmother of my son but I know for my sanity I need to

establish some boundaries..does anyone have any advice on how to do this?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I also have read " boundaries " it's a very good book. It wasn't until I found

this board that I truly made sense out of what was going on with my Nada and how

I was spinning my wheel trying to make it all okay. I am starting to learn how

to set up healthy boundaries. Since I live out of town, I limit my phone

calling. I talked to Nada 2 times in Nov. on the 1st of Nov. and Thanksgiving

Day. With her kind of BPD. She will not call. Because in her mind it is my duty

as her daughter. She will give me the cold shoulder. When I do talk to her she

will be the victim and get her digs in at me in a underhand kind of way. I'm

quite sure that my Dad is getting a lot of verbal abuse over it. She has to

lash out at someone.

I'm sticking to my limited time on the phone with her.

> >

> > I received a morning phone call from my nada this morning and although I

tried I still answered it. She started in about how she gave everything to my

sister and I and we threw her to the curb and I have no idea what she is talking

about, considering she is the one that exploded on us. I was dumbfounded but

continued to listen to her cries and her pity pot story. Then her tears turned

to anger and she started in on me about how much of piece of crap I am, as a

daughter and a mother. She is the grandmother of my son but I know for my

sanity I need to establish some boundaries..does anyone have any advice on how

to do this?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Stillsmirky -

Like you, I have a crazy nada in assisted living, and I can't go completely NC

because I have PoA and the responsibility to make sure her financial affairs are

managed - so assisted living will KEEP her!! I get those voicemail-filling

messages, too, and the " delete " button is a great friend. And I use as many

services as I can afford - pharmacy deliveries to the assisted living facility,

etc. After all the drama of getting Nada into the A.L.Facility this last

spring, my goal now is to limit required visits to one a month to deliver

seasonal clothing and supplies from storage. The minute she starts singing the

old guilt song, I stand up, say, " Okay, 'Bye! " in a chirpy voice, and I am out

the door. She'll either get it or she won't - it doesn't matter. She's housed,

fed, and her medication is monitored. Her bills are paid on time with the

income available to her. That's it. That's all she gets from me.

Many of us here have agonized over the " what do I do when Nada gets old? "

question. I think your situation and mine (and Annie's) provide hope - Nadas

will get old, they will need care, and to some extend their adult children will

be " expected " to step in. But we can manage their care and resources without

throwing ourselves under the bus of their dysfunction. You're doing a decent

and responsible thing, while protecting yourself - good for you.

[Guest guest]

, thank you! Good to know I've got company.

I have to tell you, I made my monthly trek up there in Sept. Within a few

minutes of my arrival, she was pulling the Queen routine, I don't even remember

what it was about--not like it matters, it's always something! She said,

" Congratulations, you've succeeded in destroying my life. " I stood up, walked

over to her hospital bed, where she chooses to spend her day, looked her in the

eye, and said, " I didn't drive 3.5 hours to play this game. I'm leaving. " And

I did. Felt darn good!

>

> Stillsmirky -

>

> Like you, I have a crazy nada in assisted living, and I can't go completely NC

because I have PoA and the responsibility to make sure her financial affairs are

managed - so assisted living will KEEP her!! I get those voicemail-filling

messages, too, and the " delete " button is a great friend. And I use as many

services as I can afford - pharmacy deliveries to the assisted living facility,

etc. After all the drama of getting Nada into the A.L.Facility this last

spring, my goal now is to limit required visits to one a month to deliver

seasonal clothing and supplies from storage. The minute she starts singing the

old guilt song, I stand up, say, " Okay, 'Bye! " in a chirpy voice, and I am out

the door. She'll either get it or she won't - it doesn't matter. She's housed,

fed, and her medication is monitored. Her bills are paid on time with the

income available to her. That's it. That's all she gets from me.

>

> Many of us here have agonized over the " what do I do when Nada gets old? "

question. I think your situation and mine (and Annie's) provide hope - Nadas

will get old, they will need care, and to some extend their adult children will

be " expected " to step in. But we can manage their care and resources without

throwing ourselves under the bus of their dysfunction. You're doing a decent

and responsible thing, while protecting yourself - good for you.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, every time I read one of your posts the FOG clears a bit-- obviously

you've been through the ringer with your own past and worked very hard to come

to this point of clarity. thank you for sharing and helping us to find that

clarity.

~Debbie

> > >

> > > I received a morning phone call from my nada this morning and although I

tried I still answered it. She started in about how she gave everything to my

sister and I and we threw her to the curb and I have no idea what she is talking

about, considering she is the one that exploded on us. I was dumbfounded but

continued to listen to her cries and her pity pot story. Then her tears turned

to anger and she started in on me about how much of piece of crap I am, as a

daughter and a mother. She is the grandmother of my son but I know for my

sanity I need to establish some boundaries..does anyone have any advice on how

to do this?

> > >

> >

>