Nada is triangulating with my therapist and I don't know what do to...help?

December 7, 2011

As the title says, my nada is triangulating my therapist and I don't know

quite what to do. (And my therapist doesn't seem too sure either,

unfortunately). I could really use some input.

Here's the situation, in as much of a nutshell as I can condense what is an

EXTREMELY thorny mess, so please bear with me.

Mom is a uBPD. She was horribly emotionally, verbally, and sometimes

physically abusive to both me and my brother when growing up. She was

somewhat democratic about the splitting -- although I was more often the

" all-good " child and my brother the " no-good " child, we both got regularly

angelized and demonized depending on the day or her mood or whatever -- and

like many borderline moms, she had days where she was loving and giving and

her kids could do no wrong. They never lasted, however, and it never took

very long for us to be evil horrible children again. My father was

supportive -- and he's probably the only reason I'm as sane as I am -- but

he took an attitude of " She's just like that, you have to learn to let it

roll off your back. " (Thanks, Dad...sigh.) He coped with his own issues

with her by having affairs, which of course made her crazier (thanks again

Dad.) Anyway, I escaped to college and a saner life just as soon as I could

manage it. When I was in my early thirties she did something really crappy

involving a trust fund my grandmother had set up for my brother and me; I

found out, told me brother, and shortly thereafter I went NC with her (and

as a side effect, with dad, and to a lesser extent my brother; although I

made some effort to stay connected with them via phone calls and holiday

cards and so on, their proximity to and continued involvement with Mom made

things tricky to navigate.)

Mind you, I had no idea that she was borderline -- though I was quite sure

that she was disturbed in some way -- or that what I was doing had a name

-- " Going NC " . It was just what I instinctively did to try to save myself.

Anyway, I was doing pretty well, life and career wise, although I suffered

from (and continue to suffer from) depression and anxiety which never fully

resolved. I also had a terrible time developing intimate relationships

(total lack of trust -- I never even really tried very hard, I was too

scared. People who claim to love you and are good to you are undependable,

after all, and can turn on a dime and savage you the instant you let your

guard down -- so I learned at my mother's knee.) But I finished college,

got my first Master's, had some good friends, even a few close ones. (I am,

thank God, not COMPLETELY incapable of trusting others -- just not trusting

enough to ever let anyone fully share my life.)

Then four and a half years ago my Dad died. I was just finishing up my

second round of graduate school (Education) at Boston College at the time

-- it was April, and I just had to finish my last set of courses for my

degree. Dad died suddenly from an aortal aneurysm. My Mom became desperate

to have me " back home " and began bombarding me with four-hour-long phone

calls talking about how desperate she was to have me back home and how

badly my brother was treating her. (He, poor guy, had never succeeded in

disengaging -- he tried to go to college but was unable to manage

academically, got sent home from Arizona, and never tried to escape again.

Instead, he married and settled down to raise two kids under the constant

shadow of Mom.) I didn't believe what she was saying about my brother but

I succumbed to what I have since learned a lot of abused kids succumb to --

the hope/belief that THIS TIME it will be different. I thought that with

Dad passing, Mom would change. She had only us kids now, right? So she

would have to treat us better, right? And the wounds of childhood would

start to be mended, and there would be a happy fairy-tale ending, and we

would finally be able to be a family.

It did not of course work out that way. I moved back to Michigan, got

wrapped up in Mom's issues, and failed to finish my degree. (Well, not

quite failed -- complicated story there -- but I have not officially

" graduated " yet either.) So my professional life got put on hold. I figured

it was no big deal, as Mom had decided she was going to remodel the

basement in the house " just for me " . (I was not given any input on what the

final results should actually be to suit me -- and I didn't figure it was

any of my business to make requests. It was her house and she could do with

it what she pleased, even if I thought her redesign plans were impractical,

unnecessary, and would not actually result in a living space that would

suit me. I assumed she was just engaging in making expensive and

unnecessary changes to the house to deal with her grief over the loss of

Dad, to " keep busy " , and really, if you're getting free living space, who

are you to complain, right?) Because of her " generosity " , I didn't need to

worry (for a while) about completing my degree and getting a full-time job

and becoming independent again. I didn't worry about it too much because I

figured I could always pick up again after the family issues were " fixed " .

I was, of course, far too optimistic about the potential for " fixing " the

family. It didn't happen. Mom and I started having horrible fights over

trivial issues. She was also fighting nonstop with my brother. We gave her

an ultimatum to get into family therapy with us. (I had already made

contact with local mental health providers to continue working on my

depression/anxiety -- which were of course getting worse again instead of

better with the move home, surprise, surprise.) Faced with an ultimatum,

she went. For about three sessions. The therapist expressed an interest in

continuing to see her individually for therapy. She quit. (She definitely

had both the time and money to commit to therapy; this was not a case where

she did not have access to services. She simply would not use them.)

Anyway, the one semi-positive thing about the " Mom, get therapy or we're

going to stop dealing with you " ultimatum my brother and I jointly put on

her was that she dialed back her behavior a bit and she and I were able to

develop a working truce in the house, and things stabilized, more or less,

for a couple of years. But I became stuck in personal and professional

quagmire. I couldn't seem to get the energy or motivation together to pick

up " my " life again. But at least things were quiet.

Then on October 14th an outside element intervened. I had developed a group

of friends that I met with once a week (Fridays) for board and card games

and general socializing and fun. For the most part good people, but many

with troubles and issues of their own (in general I seem to gravitate

toward troubled people for friendships -- probably because it's what I'm

used to, comfortable with, and where I feel it's okay to be a person with

issues.) I had been hanging out with this group for about three years and

thought I had developed some pretty good friendships with a couple of them.

On this Friday there was an argument over a card game, and one of the group

members (I'll call him K.) started to get verbally abusive. This wasn't

unusual for K. -- he was always one of the " edgier " people in the group and

I was never completely comfortable around him, but he was only one of

several people there, so putting up with his behavior was not so difficult.

But this night was different. He got very verbally abusive during the card

game, and I got fed up, and left. He followed me out of the house (it was

about 11pm at night) and down the sidewalk, shouting abusive stuff at me.

No one else came out to see what was going on. I turned around to tell him

to back off and leave me alone, and he attacked me. He knocked me to the

ground, pinned my hands, and got on top of me. I started screaming for help

and he got off. I called 911. On seeing me do this, he called 911 and said

I was an " intruder " (the location was his girlfriend's house; we had been

having the meetings regularly there for about the past two years, and I had

been there nearly every Friday night during that time.) When the cops

showed up, he told them I had " swung at him " and he had to " restrain me " .

The cops told me not to bother pressing charges against him because there

were no witnesses (as I said, no one came out) and it was " his word against

mine. " I called my best friend from Boston and she said the cop was full of

crap and I should definitely make a complaint. So the next day I went down

the station and filed a complaint. I was so shaky I asked Mom to drive me

there. While we were sitting in the car, she informed me that " these things

are always harder on the parent than on the child! " (.....Right....)

Anyway, I eventually got to talk to a prosecutor, and she said she had no

case. No witnesses, he claimed it was self defense, I had no serious

injuries. (When you start hearing stuff like this, you wonder -- would it

have been better if he had broken my wrist? or dislocated a disk in my back

when he threw me down? Just so someone would take it seriously?)

In any case, it was a difficult situation. It was made more difficult by

the fact that my other friends from the group were not supportive. They had

not seen what happened (because they had not bothered to look -- one friend

told me they had " heard the shouting and didn't want to make things

worse " .) Perhaps they did not want to take sides. They did not think it

" was too serious -- no one was hurt and no one was arrested. " (Yes, actual

quotes.) So I was out of luck for support there -- and I also was not able

to go back to Friday nights as the gatherings continued to be held at K.'s

girlfriend's house -- no one else really had room -- so there was no way I

could feel safe with K. there. This left me without any kind of social

support outside of the family.

So I turned to my family for support. I forgot, in my desperation, that

they are no good at that. I am the " strong " one, the one who " got away " --

the one who always helps herself. My mother, being borderline, made it all

about her; and to make matters worse, I had a fight with my brother a few

weeks after the incident with K., and my brother made the mistake of

triangulating to my Mom -- which drastically worsened the situation.

Anyway it all came to a head on Thanksgiving. I won't go into the details

but I ended up leaving the house and not coming back until everyone was

gone. (My survival reflexes cut in and I just fled.) The next day I started

frantically googling books and articles about family dynamics -- and in the

process stumbled upon some info about BPD. And a HUGE lightbulb went off.

Since the Friday after Thanksgiving I have been voraciously consuming

anything I can get my hands on about borderline personalities, personality

disorders in general, and recovery strategies for abused kids. (I thought I

had " dealt " with my issues with my Mom's abuse but, um....seems like not

really so much.) I have also been as NC as possible with Mom during this

time because the last thing I need right now is to get MORE enmeshed with

her and MORE confused about what my needs and wants in this situation

really are. We live in the same house, but I'm in the basement and there's

a walk-out door that I can use to avoid interacting with Mom, so I've been

using it. I do my work (I'm employed part time as a medical

transcriptionist), read email and message boards, then usually head out to

the library or the local coffeeshop to continue my research on BPD and

personality disorders. (I have a rather impressive stack of books, both

purchased and borrowed from the library, on personailty disorders, coping

strategies, and some interesting related topics in psychology and

sociology.)

I thought things were stable (if tense) in the house, but just a little

while ago I got a call from my therapist. (She is aware of the whole

situation, and has been very encouraging to me in my pursuit of information

and ideas in general.) My Mom, rather than trying to deal with the

situation with me directly, has triangulated to her. She apparently called

my therapist and left a long impassioned voice mail about how awful I was

being to her and how she couldn't stand it any more and wanted my therapist

to do something about it. (My therapist sounded a bit strained when we

talked.) My therapist called me to see what I wanted to do about it. She is

of the opinion that I should try to communicate to my mother what I am

currently doing and why I need space and time to figure out my strategy and

what I need and want at this point to go forward in my life. I said that I

really did not feel I was ready to bring my mom into this process, and that

I doubted that it would do any good. After all, what can I say -- " Mom,

I've just figured out that you're borderline. And that means you're never

going to be a stable, loving presence in my life, no matter what I do, no

matter how " good " I am. You cannot be " fixed " unless you decide to fix

yourself, and even if you do decide you want to improve and are

sufficiently motivated, it's still a long hard road for you. I am trying to

figure out if I need to let go, and how to do that; giving up does not come

naturally to me. I am struggling. " My mother is not going to care how much

I am struggling, and is not going to respect that I need space and time;

she is going to be desperate, she is going to try to get me engaged, she is

going to be very insistent and there will be F.O.G. all over the place. The

idea that I might decide to permanently let go of her will terrify her. She

will either fall apart, or she will attack and try to destroy me. I am not

in a good position to deal with either outcome.

But my therapist, while seeming to have a grasp of what I'm trying to

accomplish here, has basically said that I can't go NC with my mom while

I'm under her roof. I see her point, but I just don't know HOW to process

and integrate all the things I'm learning, all the ideas and possible

strategies and tactics, all the insights I'm gaining...while at the same

time interacting with my mom. And I have no hope whatsoever that my mom

will be receptive to what I'm doing. It will be far too threatening to her

to cope with.

I have had various ideas. One would be to move into a hotel room for a few

weeks. This is possible, but since one possibility I'm considering is going

completely NC and returning to Boston (my best friend is willing to put me

up in her house until I re-establish myself professionally, God bless her

heart), I would prefer to save the money since a full move will be

expensive.

In the meantime, I have told my therapist that while I will not " share " one

of my sessions with her with my mom, if she was willing and available I

would attend a joint session, so we have set one up for next Wednesday. And

I'm terrified. I don't know what to do. I haven't had time to process and

develop the various strategies I've read about for communicating with a

borderline without losing track of your own boundaries and needs. My Mom is

going to FOG me. And I'm not at all clear my therapist is experienced in

working with borderlines -- she seems to want me to think about how all

this is hurting my mom, how much my mom is suffering. Well, I'm sure Mom's

suffering. I'm sure she finds it agonizing that I really don't care to talk

to her right now. I'm sure at some level she's aware that I do have the

ability and willingness to go NC with her and might be considering doing it

-- I've done it before, after all, even if I did eventually relent and

return. But I would prefer my therapist to be more concerned about ME right

now, not my Mom. I'm not bashing my therapist here -- she's been very

helpful to me in a number of ways. But I don't think she knows borderlines.

(Many therapists who DO know borderlines don't want anything to do with

them....) I'm not sure she has the clinical knowledge to deal properly

with my mom. I guess I'm afraid my Mom may be able to successfully paint me

as the " bad guy " in my therapist's eyes -- the terrible daughter who

sponges off her mother by living with her while at the same time abusing

her by refusing to talk to her. (Mind you, aside from the distancing I'm

doing, I am in no way being abusive toward my Mom; I'm not calling all her

friends to tell them she's borderline; I'm not destroying any of her

personal property or poisoning her dog or interfering with her life in any

way; I'm just detaching.)

So....any input, if you made it through all of that?

Am I making a mistake agreeing to a joint session? When in the joint

session, how can I maintain my boundaries and avoid F.O.G.? How much should

I expect from my therapist in this situation, and how much should I listen

to her? (I mean, I will LISTEN to her....I guess a better question is, to

what extent should I internalize her ideas about how to deal with my mom if

they don't feel " right " to me, or aren't in line with what I've been

reading?)

Should I act on the hotel idea, to disarm the " you're living under my roof

while ignoring me, you terrible person " time bomb?

And then there's going into all-out flight mode, pulling up stakes, and

just fleeing to Boston to avoid the situation altogether....should I be

considering that? (I had been tentatively poking at the idea of possibly

moving in spring, after the bad weather was over and I had had a chance to

put away some more money and make arrangements for the move.) I am not

sure all-out flight is a wise or safe move right now but it might be the

best option open to me.

Would really love to hear from you guys on any of these issues.

Thanks.

-- Jen

December 7, 2011

Hi,

I think you're right about the joint therapy not being a good idea. I'd go

to Boston. I don't really know your situation but doesn't seem like you can

move forward where you are. Good luck!

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:26 PM, Hawthorne wrote:

> **

>

> As the title says, my nada is triangulating my therapist and I don't know

> quite what to do. (And my therapist doesn't seem too sure either,

> unfortunately). I could really use some input.

>

> Here's the situation, in as much of a nutshell as I can condense what is an

> EXTREMELY thorny mess, so please bear with me.

>

> Mom is a uBPD. She was horribly emotionally, verbally, and sometimes

> physically abusive to both me and my brother when growing up. She was

> somewhat democratic about the splitting -- although I was more often the

> " all-good " child and my brother the " no-good " child, we both got regularly

> angelized and demonized depending on the day or her mood or whatever -- and

> like many borderline moms, she had days where she was loving and giving and

> her kids could do no wrong. They never lasted, however, and it never took

> very long for us to be evil horrible children again. My father was

> supportive -- and he's probably the only reason I'm as sane as I am -- but

> he took an attitude of " She's just like that, you have to learn to let it

> roll off your back. " (Thanks, Dad...sigh.) He coped with his own issues

> with her by having affairs, which of course made her crazier (thanks again

> Dad.) Anyway, I escaped to college and a saner life just as soon as I could

> manage it. When I was in my early thirties she did something really crappy

> involving a trust fund my grandmother had set up for my brother and me; I

> found out, told me brother, and shortly thereafter I went NC with her (and

> as a side effect, with dad, and to a lesser extent my brother; although I

> made some effort to stay connected with them via phone calls and holiday

> cards and so on, their proximity to and continued involvement with Mom made

> things tricky to navigate.)

>

> Mind you, I had no idea that she was borderline -- though I was quite sure

> that she was disturbed in some way -- or that what I was doing had a name

> -- " Going NC " . It was just what I instinctively did to try to save myself.

>

> Anyway, I was doing pretty well, life and career wise, although I suffered

> from (and continue to suffer from) depression and anxiety which never fully

> resolved. I also had a terrible time developing intimate relationships

> (total lack of trust -- I never even really tried very hard, I was too

> scared. People who claim to love you and are good to you are undependable,

> after all, and can turn on a dime and savage you the instant you let your

> guard down -- so I learned at my mother's knee.) But I finished college,

> got my first Master's, had some good friends, even a few close ones. (I am,

> thank God, not COMPLETELY incapable of trusting others -- just not trusting

> enough to ever let anyone fully share my life.)

>

> Then four and a half years ago my Dad died. I was just finishing up my

> second round of graduate school (Education) at Boston College at the time

> -- it was April, and I just had to finish my last set of courses for my

> degree. Dad died suddenly from an aortal aneurysm. My Mom became desperate

> to have me " back home " and began bombarding me with four-hour-long phone

> calls talking about how desperate she was to have me back home and how

> badly my brother was treating her. (He, poor guy, had never succeeded in

> disengaging -- he tried to go to college but was unable to manage

> academically, got sent home from Arizona, and never tried to escape again.

> Instead, he married and settled down to raise two kids under the constant

> shadow of Mom.) I didn't believe what she was saying about my brother but

> I succumbed to what I have since learned a lot of abused kids succumb to --

> the hope/belief that THIS TIME it will be different. I thought that with

> Dad passing, Mom would change. She had only us kids now, right? So she

> would have to treat us better, right? And the wounds of childhood would

> start to be mended, and there would be a happy fairy-tale ending, and we

> would finally be able to be a family.

>

> It did not of course work out that way. I moved back to Michigan, got

> wrapped up in Mom's issues, and failed to finish my degree. (Well, not

> quite failed -- complicated story there -- but I have not officially

> " graduated " yet either.) So my professional life got put on hold. I figured

> it was no big deal, as Mom had decided she was going to remodel the

> basement in the house " just for me " . (I was not given any input on what the

> final results should actually be to suit me -- and I didn't figure it was

> any of my business to make requests. It was her house and she could do with

> it what she pleased, even if I thought her redesign plans were impractical,

> unnecessary, and would not actually result in a living space that would

> suit me. I assumed she was just engaging in making expensive and

> unnecessary changes to the house to deal with her grief over the loss of

> Dad, to " keep busy " , and really, if you're getting free living space, who

> are you to complain, right?) Because of her " generosity " , I didn't need to

> worry (for a while) about completing my degree and getting a full-time job

> and becoming independent again. I didn't worry about it too much because I

> figured I could always pick up again after the family issues were " fixed " .

>

> I was, of course, far too optimistic about the potential for " fixing " the

> family. It didn't happen. Mom and I started having horrible fights over

> trivial issues. She was also fighting nonstop with my brother. We gave her

> an ultimatum to get into family therapy with us. (I had already made

> contact with local mental health providers to continue working on my

> depression/anxiety -- which were of course getting worse again instead of

> better with the move home, surprise, surprise.) Faced with an ultimatum,

> she went. For about three sessions. The therapist expressed an interest in

> continuing to see her individually for therapy. She quit. (She definitely

> had both the time and money to commit to therapy; this was not a case where

> she did not have access to services. She simply would not use them.)

>

> Anyway, the one semi-positive thing about the " Mom, get therapy or we're

> going to stop dealing with you " ultimatum my brother and I jointly put on

> her was that she dialed back her behavior a bit and she and I were able to

> develop a working truce in the house, and things stabilized, more or less,

> for a couple of years. But I became stuck in personal and professional

> quagmire. I couldn't seem to get the energy or motivation together to pick

> up " my " life again. But at least things were quiet.

>

> Then on October 14th an outside element intervened. I had developed a group

> of friends that I met with once a week (Fridays) for board and card games

> and general socializing and fun. For the most part good people, but many

> with troubles and issues of their own (in general I seem to gravitate

> toward troubled people for friendships -- probably because it's what I'm

> used to, comfortable with, and where I feel it's okay to be a person with

> issues.) I had been hanging out with this group for about three years and

> thought I had developed some pretty good friendships with a couple of them.

> On this Friday there was an argument over a card game, and one of the group

> members (I'll call him K.) started to get verbally abusive. This wasn't

> unusual for K. -- he was always one of the " edgier " people in the group and

> I was never completely comfortable around him, but he was only one of

> several people there, so putting up with his behavior was not so difficult.

> But this night was different. He got very verbally abusive during the card

> game, and I got fed up, and left. He followed me out of the house (it was

> about 11pm at night) and down the sidewalk, shouting abusive stuff at me.

> No one else came out to see what was going on. I turned around to tell him

> to back off and leave me alone, and he attacked me. He knocked me to the

> ground, pinned my hands, and got on top of me. I started screaming for help

> and he got off. I called 911. On seeing me do this, he called 911 and said

> I was an " intruder " (the location was his girlfriend's house; we had been

> having the meetings regularly there for about the past two years, and I had

> been there nearly every Friday night during that time.) When the cops

> showed up, he told them I had " swung at him " and he had to " restrain me " .

> The cops told me not to bother pressing charges against him because there

> were no witnesses (as I said, no one came out) and it was " his word against

> mine. " I called my best friend from Boston and she said the cop was full of

> crap and I should definitely make a complaint. So the next day I went down

> the station and filed a complaint. I was so shaky I asked Mom to drive me

> there. While we were sitting in the car, she informed me that " these things

> are always harder on the parent than on the child! " (.....Right....)

> Anyway, I eventually got to talk to a prosecutor, and she said she had no

> case. No witnesses, he claimed it was self defense, I had no serious

> injuries. (When you start hearing stuff like this, you wonder -- would it

> have been better if he had broken my wrist? or dislocated a disk in my back

> when he threw me down? Just so someone would take it seriously?)

>

> In any case, it was a difficult situation. It was made more difficult by

> the fact that my other friends from the group were not supportive. They had

> not seen what happened (because they had not bothered to look -- one friend

> told me they had " heard the shouting and didn't want to make things

> worse " .) Perhaps they did not want to take sides. They did not think it

> " was too serious -- no one was hurt and no one was arrested. " (Yes, actual

> quotes.) So I was out of luck for support there -- and I also was not able

> to go back to Friday nights as the gatherings continued to be held at K.'s

> girlfriend's house -- no one else really had room -- so there was no way I

> could feel safe with K. there. This left me without any kind of social

> support outside of the family.

>

> So I turned to my family for support. I forgot, in my desperation, that

> they are no good at that. I am the " strong " one, the one who " got away " --

> the one who always helps herself. My mother, being borderline, made it all

> about her; and to make matters worse, I had a fight with my brother a few

> weeks after the incident with K., and my brother made the mistake of

> triangulating to my Mom -- which drastically worsened the situation.

>

> Anyway it all came to a head on Thanksgiving. I won't go into the details

> but I ended up leaving the house and not coming back until everyone was

> gone. (My survival reflexes cut in and I just fled.) The next day I started

> frantically googling books and articles about family dynamics -- and in the

> process stumbled upon some info about BPD. And a HUGE lightbulb went off.

> Since the Friday after Thanksgiving I have been voraciously consuming

> anything I can get my hands on about borderline personalities, personality

> disorders in general, and recovery strategies for abused kids. (I thought I

> had " dealt " with my issues with my Mom's abuse but, um....seems like not

> really so much.) I have also been as NC as possible with Mom during this

> time because the last thing I need right now is to get MORE enmeshed with

> her and MORE confused about what my needs and wants in this situation

> really are. We live in the same house, but I'm in the basement and there's

> a walk-out door that I can use to avoid interacting with Mom, so I've been

> using it. I do my work (I'm employed part time as a medical

> transcriptionist), read email and message boards, then usually head out to

> the library or the local coffeeshop to continue my research on BPD and

> personality disorders. (I have a rather impressive stack of books, both

> purchased and borrowed from the library, on personailty disorders, coping

> strategies, and some interesting related topics in psychology and

> sociology.)

>

> I thought things were stable (if tense) in the house, but just a little

> while ago I got a call from my therapist. (She is aware of the whole

> situation, and has been very encouraging to me in my pursuit of information

> and ideas in general.) My Mom, rather than trying to deal with the

> situation with me directly, has triangulated to her. She apparently called

> my therapist and left a long impassioned voice mail about how awful I was

> being to her and how she couldn't stand it any more and wanted my therapist

> to do something about it. (My therapist sounded a bit strained when we

> talked.) My therapist called me to see what I wanted to do about it. She is

> of the opinion that I should try to communicate to my mother what I am

> currently doing and why I need space and time to figure out my strategy and

> what I need and want at this point to go forward in my life. I said that I

> really did not feel I was ready to bring my mom into this process, and that

> I doubted that it would do any good. After all, what can I say -- " Mom,

> I've just figured out that you're borderline. And that means you're never

> going to be a stable, loving presence in my life, no matter what I do, no

> matter how " good " I am. You cannot be " fixed " unless you decide to fix

> yourself, and even if you do decide you want to improve and are

> sufficiently motivated, it's still a long hard road for you. I am trying to

> figure out if I need to let go, and how to do that; giving up does not come

> naturally to me. I am struggling. " My mother is not going to care how much

> I am struggling, and is not going to respect that I need space and time;

> she is going to be desperate, she is going to try to get me engaged, she is

> going to be very insistent and there will be F.O.G. all over the place. The

> idea that I might decide to permanently let go of her will terrify her. She

> will either fall apart, or she will attack and try to destroy me. I am not

> in a good position to deal with either outcome.

>

> But my therapist, while seeming to have a grasp of what I'm trying to

> accomplish here, has basically said that I can't go NC with my mom while

> I'm under her roof. I see her point, but I just don't know HOW to process

> and integrate all the things I'm learning, all the ideas and possible

> strategies and tactics, all the insights I'm gaining...while at the same

> time interacting with my mom. And I have no hope whatsoever that my mom

> will be receptive to what I'm doing. It will be far too threatening to her

> to cope with.

>

> I have had various ideas. One would be to move into a hotel room for a few

> weeks. This is possible, but since one possibility I'm considering is going

> completely NC and returning to Boston (my best friend is willing to put me

> up in her house until I re-establish myself professionally, God bless her

> heart), I would prefer to save the money since a full move will be

> expensive.

>

> In the meantime, I have told my therapist that while I will not " share " one

> of my sessions with her with my mom, if she was willing and available I

> would attend a joint session, so we have set one up for next Wednesday. And

> I'm terrified. I don't know what to do. I haven't had time to process and

> develop the various strategies I've read about for communicating with a

> borderline without losing track of your own boundaries and needs. My Mom is

> going to FOG me. And I'm not at all clear my therapist is experienced in

> working with borderlines -- she seems to want me to think about how all

> this is hurting my mom, how much my mom is suffering. Well, I'm sure Mom's

> suffering. I'm sure she finds it agonizing that I really don't care to talk

> to her right now. I'm sure at some level she's aware that I do have the

> ability and willingness to go NC with her and might be considering doing it

> -- I've done it before, after all, even if I did eventually relent and

> return. But I would prefer my therapist to be more concerned about ME right

> now, not my Mom. I'm not bashing my therapist here -- she's been very

> helpful to me in a number of ways. But I don't think she knows borderlines.

> (Many therapists who DO know borderlines don't want anything to do with

> them....) I'm not sure she has the clinical knowledge to deal properly

> with my mom. I guess I'm afraid my Mom may be able to successfully paint me

> as the " bad guy " in my therapist's eyes -- the terrible daughter who

> sponges off her mother by living with her while at the same time abusing

> her by refusing to talk to her. (Mind you, aside from the distancing I'm

> doing, I am in no way being abusive toward my Mom; I'm not calling all her

> friends to tell them she's borderline; I'm not destroying any of her

> personal property or poisoning her dog or interfering with her life in any

> way; I'm just detaching.)

>

> So....any input, if you made it through all of that?

>

> Am I making a mistake agreeing to a joint session? When in the joint

> session, how can I maintain my boundaries and avoid F.O.G.? How much should

> I expect from my therapist in this situation, and how much should I listen

> to her? (I mean, I will LISTEN to her....I guess a better question is, to

> what extent should I internalize her ideas about how to deal with my mom if

> they don't feel " right " to me, or aren't in line with what I've been

> reading?)

>

> Should I act on the hotel idea, to disarm the " you're living under my roof

> while ignoring me, you terrible person " time bomb?

>

> And then there's going into all-out flight mode, pulling up stakes, and

> just fleeing to Boston to avoid the situation altogether....should I be

> considering that? (I had been tentatively poking at the idea of possibly

> moving in spring, after the bad weather was over and I had had a chance to

> put away some more money and make arrangements for the move.) I am not

> sure all-out flight is a wise or safe move right now but it might be the

> best option open to me.

>

> Would really love to hear from you guys on any of these issues.

>

> Thanks.

> -- Jen

>

December 7, 2011

Hi , here's my take...

1) Get out. Make that your number one priority. This is more important than if

it's a good time to do it with regard to money or the weather. This must take

priority over even reading books about BPD or doing therapy. Job One is to Get

Out. As long as you have dependence on your mother for your very living

situation it will undermine most everything.

2) The joint therapy session... If you can bear the thought of it I'd actually

go. The reason why is twofold. One is to actually see your therapist get

battle tested - will she " get it " when faced with it? If she doesn't you'll

know for sure she's not the one for you and not to internalize her view of you

or the situation. Another benefit of going (and for one session only) is to

establish some kind of peace terms that will calm your nada down until you are

able to get out of the house.

3) Hotel...I would say no. The work you'll be doing around this issue will go

on for years, even the most early intense part will be months. I don't know if

you feel you can do this, but it might even be better to put it on hold right

now and devote all of your energies to getting out. I've found that the more

I've unrepressed in my therapy work the harder it is to interact with my nada -

you shouldn't have to tackle that change while living with her.

So in summary: make getting yourself safe and independent the ultimate

priority. Good luck!

Eliza